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KOffice 1.6 Released

CowboyNeal posted more than 7 years ago | from the brand-new-bag dept.

186

ingwa writes "The KOffice team today released version 1.6 of its office suite. Among other things, this release contains an improved Krita which can now handle color spaces like CMYK. This makes it the only free image editor that can be used in professional pre-press work. Together with the other improvements, this release probably makes it the best free image editor in the world. The release also contains improvements in Kexi, the MS Access like database application, and a new scripting framework which makes it extremely simple to script applications that handle OpenDocument data. With this release KOffice also surpasses OpenOffice.org in some ways, e.g. it handles over 70% of the W3C MathML test suite while Openoffice.org only handles 22%. See the KOffice homepage for more information."

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186 comments

Marketer alert? (1, Troll)

Salvance (1014001) | more than 7 years ago | (#16462781)

"this release probably makes it the best free image editor in the world"

"With this release KOffice also surpasses OpenOffice.org in some ways, e.g. it handles over 70% of the W3C MathML test suite while Openoffice.org only handles 22%. See the KOffice homepage for more information."

Does anyone smell a marketing rat trying to push new software? Rather interesting post on the heals of post on the GIMP graphics subsystem.

Re:Marketer alert? (4, Insightful)

RobotRunAmok (595286) | more than 7 years ago | (#16462845)

Does anyone smell a marketing rat trying to push new software?

Push it... to what end? To make more money? It's all free! And my experience is that the free software guys don't have Marketing Rats, or at least none worthy of the name, else the products wouldn't have names like "The GIMP."

Re:Marketer alert? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16462883)

I've found that a lot of users seem to get upset when others aren't using their preferred software. It's kind of immature, but I see it all the time from all sides, especially when it's a KDE vs GNOME thing.

Re:Marketer alert? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16462871)

Does anyone smell a marketing rat trying to push new software? Rather interesting post on the heals of post on the GIMP graphics subsystem.
Yeah, those greedy KD£ fuckers only care about how much cash they can squeeze out of you for a minor upgrade!

Re:Marketer alert? (1)

LittleBigLui (304739) | more than 7 years ago | (#16464561)

greedy KD£ fuckers

You misspelled . One currency sign certainly isn't enough for those greedy fuckers with their "internationalisation effort" and stuff.

Re:Marketer alert? (1)

LittleBigLui (304739) | more than 7 years ago | (#16464569)

Note to self: if posting non-ascii characters, especially if they are the most important characters of the whole fucking post, use Preview.

ASCII-compatible replacement, because i can't be bothered to look up the character codes: "Lao kip" "Vietnamese dong" "Euro".

Re:Marketer alert? (2, Interesting)

Warbringer87 (969664) | more than 7 years ago | (#16462891)

I haven't ever used Krita before, but they win by default if they have a better UI than GIMP. As for OpenOffice, wouldn't it be wiser to not bother to compete with them until their own stuff can run on Windows?

Re:Marketer alert? (1)

alphamugwump (918799) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463079)

Since QT4 is now available under an open source license for windows, they very well might start competing with OpenOffice.

Re:Marketer alert? (1)

gameforge (965493) | more than 7 years ago | (#16464715)

Since QT4 is now available under an open source license for windows, they very well might start competing with OpenOffice.

Right, but Qt is only half the battle. Qt was originally designed to work on Windows and Linux. While I've seen screenshots of KDE software running on Windows, I don't think it's in the same ballpark as Qt in terms of compatibility; KDE (as the name implies) isn't just middleware like Qt is.

I think the latest KDE on Windows is 3.1.4; once they get to be in parallel with each other (so the same release comes out on both platforms at/around the same time), then I suppose as KOffice matured more it could become an alternative to OO on Win32. KOffice is kind of a KDE poster-app; you would need to install a good bit of the core KDE packages to run KOffice. This is a fair bit of work to go through vs. setting up OO. I'm not saying it wouldn't be worth it if KOffice (and KDE/Win32) really got smoothed out; but it's still a factor.

Personally, I like not having KDE stuff on Windows. It gives me a reason to suggest using Linux. :)

Really, I thought KOffice was great until I started using it heavily... it's not what I would call "reliable" yet. There's a lot of kinda goofy bugs & occasional crashes. I thought maybe it was "Gentooism", but I had similar experiences on my laptop running Kubuntu.

Maybe I'll give this version a shot?

Re:Marketer alert? (1)

ajs318 (655362) | more than 7 years ago | (#16465073)

QT has been available under an Open Source licence for Windows ever since QT for Unix went under the GPL; there was never anything stopping anyone from porting it. Apart, that is, from an apparent general aversion in the Windows camp towards Free Software. Oh, they like their free-as-in-beer downloads, but they are all spyware-infested closed source applications and you end up paying with your bandwidth, your CPU cycles and the overall usability of your computer. Letting someone else look at the source code is anathema to the average Windows programmer. After all, they never got to look at the source code of their Operating System, so why should they let anyone look at the source code for their applications?

Re:Marketer alert? (4, Insightful)

KingJackaL (871276) | more than 7 years ago | (#16462893)

At least they're competing on open standards. Sort of like Opera's race to get support for SVG-(tiny/full) into their browser ahead of Gecko etc. No embrace and extend bollocks ;).

I'm also pretty pleased to see another FOSS image editor doing well, competition does great things for the market, even when the market is free :). I'll definately be giving Krita a go soon.

Re:Marketer alert? (0, Offtopic)

Salvance (1014001) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463179)

Troll? Come on gang. I'm a new slashdot user, and have been fascinated by slashdot the past 48 hours. Every article I've read has been on-point (except for the "book report" on Ajax, which I declined to comment on), but all of a sudden I read an article that is more 'marketing-speak' than news or a technology synopsis, and I get flagged as a troll when I comment as such?

I realize a lot of folks here are pro *nix and open source software (as am I usually), but that doesn't mean we can't be critical. Should I only contribute if I have something nice to say, or only contribute a negative comment if it's about non-*nix software? Or is it something else that got me flagged as a troll (I don't even know what being flagged a 'troll' means, so maybe I'm overreacting).

Sal

Re:Marketer alert? (1)

dextromulous (627459) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463979)

Troll: v. to post controversial or provocative messages in a deliberate attempt to provoke flames. n. a person who makes such a post.

With that said, your question was semi-loaded; at least, the mods seem to have thought so.

Re:Marketer alert? (1)

Randle_Revar (229304) | more than 7 years ago | (#16464801)

Welcome to slashdot, and congrats on your first troll mod! Everyone gets modded as a troll at some point, if for no other reason than that someone in a really bad mood got mod points. And I see you have several highly rated comments already, so this shouldn't hurt your karma that much.

As for the content of your comment, I think it was maybe a little strong (though not really worth a troll mod, IMHO). I would say that the announcement was trying to put KOffice in the best light possible, but you can't really expect them to downplay their release. "probably makes it the best free image editor in the world" is an arguable point (either way), but the statement about OO.o seems basically factual, since they said "in some ways". And I think (based on my reading of various blogs) that the timing of this was a coincidence. That's my feeling, though, and I admit that I have a small bias towards KOffice vs The Gimp and other Office suites.

Should I only contribute if I have something nice to say, or only contribute a negative comment if it's about non-*nix software?

Some might argue yes, given the touchiness of some /.ers towards comments critical of [theirfavoritething], but that would make things pretty dull (and wrong). I would say go ahead and speak your opinion, and be prepared to defend it (and to be modded down anyway at times).

Again, welcome to /. and I hope you stick around, 'cause /. always needs more (basically) reasonable people :-)

Re:Marketer alert? (2, Informative)

ingwa (958475) | more than 7 years ago | (#16464769)

Yeah, sure I'm a marketer. Or rather: I'm a developer doing some marketing work. I am of the opinion that if we don't tell the world about our great work, then sure as hell nobody else will do it for us. And if we happen to be the best at something, then that's what I will say.

There are so many great open source projects that nobody is using just because nobody knows about it. I'm not going to let that happen to KOffice.

Re:Marketer alert? (0, Flamebait)

ex-geek (847495) | more than 7 years ago | (#16464861)

Yeah, sure I'm a marketer.

And like most marketers, it doesn't seem like you have acutally used the product prior to marketing it. You underestimated Krita. CMYK wasn't added just now. It was already present in prior versions. Krita features on top of that up to 32 bit floating point or integer RGB, L*a*b and Watercolor color spaces. Now THAT would have been something to brag about.

Re:Marketer alert? (1)

elvstone (86513) | more than 7 years ago | (#16465107)

CMYK is not mentioned in the release announcement, nor in the change log, neither have Inge brought it up in his marketing effort. This was probably a mistake by the submitter/editor. Believe me Inge has been using KOffice and is well aware of its support for a wide range of color spaces :)

Best regards,
Aron Stansvik

Kudos to the dev team (5, Informative)

Dasher42 (514179) | more than 7 years ago | (#16462789)

KOffice has been for a long time the contender that has not gotten its due. Like KDE, it is mildly clunky, but quite powerful, and programming things in the C++/Qt/KDE paradigm makes it faster on its feet than OpenOffice. Qt 4.x should make it possible for this suite to make a splash on Windows and OSX too, so this year should be very... interesting.

Re:Kudos to the dev team (5, Funny)

nuzak (959558) | more than 7 years ago | (#16462865)

> KOffice has been for a long time the contender that has not gotten its due.

I try to give it its due, and have often attempted to compose a praise-filled letter in KOffice, but it keeps crashing before I can finish it.

Re:Kudos to the dev team (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16463035)

I try to give it its due, and have often attempted to compose a praise-filled letter in KOffice, but it keeps crashing before I can finish it.
Don't you know? The 'K' in KOffice stands for Krap .

Hear, hear! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16463419)

Ditto on the Kudos!

I've stayed away from the KDE stuff for years. Recently, I've finally decided to switch to a better Linux Mail User Agent, so I finally tried KMail. A great big THANK YOU to the KDE developers!!! This is the closest thing to my dream MUA that I've found. The general design philosophy is just the way it should be. The C++/Qt/KDE paradigm is indeed quite powerful. So much so, that I've started programming in it myself just for fun.

Please keep up the superb work, folks! It is MUCH appreciated.

Re:Kudos to the dev team (4, Informative)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 7 years ago | (#16465183)

``it is mildly clunky''

and, last time I used it, very fast compared to the competition. That counts for a lot in my book. "It's the latency, stupid!"

Openoffice draining KOffice (Hurd effect) (3, Insightful)

Gopal.V (532678) | more than 7 years ago | (#16462823)

Eventhough I still use OO.org 2.0, I've always felt that the codebase has the feel of having been through too many hands, have had too many cooks mix in all their special sauce (*cough* Sun... *cough* Java...), for it to leave a good after taste. But people still work on it and use it because it has the best MS Word .doc compatibility versus esoteric features like MathML (@see LaTeX) - it is a chicken and egg problem of getting your users/developers and having work done to get them (@see Hurd).

So, if there were on OO.org, I'd have estimated that Koffice would be much farther up in .doc compatibility than it is now. Necessity is the mother of invention and all that.

Re:Openoffice draining KOffice (Hurd effect) (1)

lee1026 (876806) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463199)

Well, they are both open source projects right? That means that Koffice can just "steal" code from OO.o as they see fit, right?

Re:Openoffice draining KOffice (Hurd effect) (2, Interesting)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463827)

Yes and no. OpenOffice.org is written to take advantage of both QT and GTK widgets, but as I understand it, it is written in C with GTK really in mind. It has been suggested to the KOffice devs many times to just lift the code from OpenOffice.org for importing MS Office documents (the only real major advantage OO.o has on the Linux desktop in my opinion) and they state that they can't just plug that code in. Because you're jumping from C to C++, apparently it needs to be rewritten considerably.

Re:Openoffice draining KOffice (Hurd effect) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16464473)

Yeah but for importing that argument doesn't make sense. This conversion doesn't require low-latency chatter (which is the only scenario where C to C++ would matter), this is very much a doc-to-odt conversion that could be an external or even shelled-out command-line process (Eg., Docvert. Xena, or direct Uno object access).

Re:Openoffice draining KOffice (Hurd effect) (0, Troll)

ajs318 (655362) | more than 7 years ago | (#16465211)

Not quite.

OpenOffice.org is released under the LGPL, which allows people to steal the hard work put in by their contributors in order to make closed-source forks (strictly, the source for the application as a whole may be Closed but the source for any LGPL parts must remain Open). KOffice is released under the full-on, take-no-prisoners GPL, which insists for every fork to be Open Source.

It's possible that using part of OpenOffice.org in KOffice might allow closed-source derivatives of KOffice.

Even if that weren't the case, OpenOffice.org is so badly coded as to require rewriting from scratch before it is used for anything.

Re:Openoffice draining KOffice (Hurd effect) (1)

eean (177028) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463323)

Um, well openoffice already had an existing codebase (in fact, a gargantuan one) from a commercial product.

pffffftt.. version 1? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16462829)

Microsoft's office is up to version 11. This is no where near as good.

Re:pffffftt.. version 1? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16465031)

Yeah? Well Emacs is at version 22!

Gnome version? (2, Interesting)

Frogbert (589961) | more than 7 years ago | (#16462831)

I'm not trying to sound stupid here. But what are the chances of getting a gnome version of Koffice? I don't mean a complete rewrite start from scratch office suite tied into the Gnome desktop project. I mean a port of Koffice to a gnome environment.

Is that even possible? It seems kind of dumb to port a linux application to linux.

Perhaps I'm way off base here.

Re:Gnome version? (5, Insightful)

FishWithAHammer (957772) | more than 7 years ago | (#16462899)

Install KDE libraries.

Shazam.

Re:Gnome version? (2, Insightful)

misleb (129952) | more than 7 years ago | (#16464327)

Don't underestimate the value of having applications integrated each other and the desktop. While you can just install the KDE libs if you must run KOffice, it certainly isn't an ideal arrangement.

-matthew

Re:Gnome version? (1)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 7 years ago | (#16464505)

How about instead of saying shadowy things like, "it certainly isn't an ideal arrangement" you give examples of what is wrong with it? The main thing I've heard is that it takes up more memory. This is not really an issue because memory is cheap. Another thing might be because it is tightly integrated with the desktop, and uses some special features that only KDE has, but it is hard for me to imagine any such feature that is useful to a word processor.

Re:Gnome version? (1)

misleb (129952) | more than 7 years ago | (#16464875)

How about instead of saying shadowy things like, "it certainly isn't an ideal arrangement" you give examples of what is wrong with it? The main thing I've heard is that it takes up more memory. This is not really an issue because memory is cheap. Another thing might be because it is tightly integrated with the desktop, and uses some special features that only KDE has, but it is hard for me to imagine any such feature that is useful to a word processor.


I haven't explored the KDE/GNOME app mixup specifically, but let me give a few examples of the kinds of problems a user might encounter.

1) Embedding an object from one app in another.

2) Sharing data such as your address book in multiple applications without using intermediary file formats.

3) Cut/paste of non-trivial (non-text) data types between applications.

4) Drag/drop between apps (perhaps belongs with #3)

5) Consistent user themes, preferences, styles, and overall application behavior.

6) Accessability. If you've got GNOME all set up with a screen reader or whatever (assuming it can do it at all), it may not work in a KDE apps.

Don't get me wrong, I think it is great that you can run KDE apps in GNOME if you really need to, but there are advantages to keeping things integrated. Just having X11 in common isn't much.

-matthew

Re:Gnome version? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16464877)

Well for starters: they don't have the buttons reversed with Ok / Cancel.

Maybe it could go like they say with KDE and GNOME, because they both exist, they will always try to become better. Which in my opinion is still a lousy reason because even when GNOME or OPENOFFICE wouldn't exist, they still had Windows or MS OFFICE to compete with. But probably that OpenDocument thing wouldn't have existed without OPENOFFICE.

KOFFICE still works a little different than MS OFFICE, so if you're used to MS OFFICE, maybe OPENOFFICE looks a little bit more familiar.... It did to me...

Re:Gnome version? (1)

W3BMAST3R101 (904060) | more than 7 years ago | (#16462939)

There shouldn't be a need since there is a word processor and spreadsheet based on gtk -- Abiword & Gnumeric. I use them all the time and abiword even supports .doc. Check it out sometime.

Re:Gnome version? (1)

jbolden (176878) | more than 7 years ago | (#16462967)

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking, it doesn't even really sound like you are sure what you're asking. Anyway take a look at: http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Standards [freedesktop.org] which is pretty much standards for running KDE apps on Gnome and vice versa (as well as some other issues). At this point Gnome and KDE apps cooperate reasonably well with one another and KDE works as well Gnome as OO does so ....

Re:Gnome version? (1)

nuzak (959558) | more than 7 years ago | (#16462987)

> what are the chances of getting a gnome version of Koffice?

I imagine you could port all the idioms (qt to gtk, ioslaves to vfs, kparts to bonobo) but by the time you were done, you'd have completely recoded it anyway. May as well start from scratch and target the OASIS document standard as Koffice does.

What would be nice is if you wrote it as a suite of cooperating DBUS components, since both KDE and Gnome are using it now. I imagine that itself would involve some major work, including quite probably on DBUS itself. Maybe someday we'll realize the interop promise of Tooltalk/Opendoc/CORBA/COM/SOM/Bonobo/Kparts ... sigh.

> Perhaps I'm way off base here.

Naw, you're not. It's just that "Linux" referring to the kernel and basic userland toolchain really has little to do with KDE or Gnome, since those two environments are really platforms all their own. It'd be much easier to port Koffice to Qt on Windows than it would to port it to another toolkit.

Re:Gnome version? (4, Informative)

porkThreeWays (895269) | more than 7 years ago | (#16462991)

I think a lot of people get confused about KDE and Gnome. You don't really write a program to run in KDE or Gnome. They'll be written with either QT or GTK+ for the GUI toolkit. They might use certain kde or gnome libs on top of that as well. But both projects are fairly modular and programs usually don't require a full KDE install to run and I've never heard of a KDE program actually needing the user logged into a KDE environment to use the program. You'd just make sure that machine has the needed KDE libs. You can run it under almost any window manager or desktop environment if all the proper libs are in place. So once you've got a mature app written like KOffice, you wouldn't just up and switch GUI toolkits. The only reason an open source project might do that is if they wanted better MS Windows support because historically QT hasn't been as available on windows as gtk. With qt4 I think this is going to change however.

Re:Gnome version? (2, Insightful)

cybereal (621599) | more than 7 years ago | (#16464667)

The only reason an open source project might do that is if they wanted better MS Windows support because historically QT hasn't been as available on windows as gtk. With qt4 I think this is going to change however.

Actually historically speaking Qt has been better supported on Windows than GTK and still is. There are actually two hinderances here: 1) In the past there has been no GPL license for the windows version of Qt (or Mac) but that has changed. Mac has a GPL version and Windows either has one or is getting it in the next major release. But, the more important limitation (anyone could've built binaries with a paid license to Qt...) is that KDE apps require KDE libs which are built on top of Qt and make many assumptions about the underlying OS being a unix-like OS. Sure you could use cygwin to get around this I imagine, and there ARE some prior examples of KDE running on Windows but it always worked terribly.

However, with the licensing question gone for Windows, it is much more likely that KOffice and the required KDE libraries to compile and run it could get a Windows port.

I wish this would happen. I would much rather use KOffice than blOatpenOffice.org.

Re:Gnome version? (1)

andersa (687550) | more than 7 years ago | (#16464727)

All this is true, but I think the original poster meant that he wanted a KOffice with the look and feel of a Gnome application.

While it is true that you can run any kde application in Gnome, the application will still feel like a KDE application, for instance the skin will look different and dialogs will have a different button positioning.

I know KOffice is fairly modular, but I don't think it would be possible to tie it into Gnome's UI libraries easily.

Re:Gnome version? (1)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463021)

The standard answer is that you are welcome to do so.
 
Now with that out of the way, there really is no need to. First, both OO and Koffice are capable of running on either desktop. You just fire them up. Secondly, it would take a bit of work to rip out Qt and replace it with gtk. Instead, that effort could go into improving either or both of the projects. Finally, while OO does better on .docs, there are places that koffice is better. Make use of both. Simply use ODT format. In particular, this past weekend, I did some business cards. I ended up using both editors at various times. It was ideal.

Re:Gnome version? (1)

Osty (16825) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463201)

In particular, this past weekend, I did some business cards. I ended up using both editors at various times. It was ideal.

"Ideal" would be that you could have used either editor by itself and done all of your work in a single environment. Opening up two word processors to modify a single document is nowhere near "ideal", as far as I'm concerned.

Re:Gnome version? (1)

frogstar_robot (926792) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463347)

If you get the result you want with a minimum of effort then why be snarky about the toolchain?

Re:Gnome version? (1)

Osty (16825) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463509)

If you get the result you want with a minimum of effort then why be snarky about the toolchain?

Because opening two tools is more effort than opening one, and thus isn't minimum effort.

Also, I'm not being snarky. I agree that it's great that he was able to do what he wanted to do. I'm simply saying that having to go through multiple applications for something relatively simple like a business card is not "ideal", when those two tools are similar. Had he said he used a vector app from one of the suites to draw his logo, and then used the word processor from the other suite to lay it out, that'd be one thing (because no one expects a word processor to also do vector image editing). Instead, he implied that he had to use both word processors ("both editors"). That means that both word processors are missing features. If I read it wrong and he meant that he used a tool in one suite without an equivalent in the other and then vice versa, I take back what I said (though that does still mean that both suites are missing useful tools).

Re:Gnome version? (1)

toganet (176363) | more than 7 years ago | (#16465255)

Not to sound like a logical positivist or anything, but I think you are simply disagreeing on the meaning of the word "ideal".

Bravo !! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16462853)

this is a good week(well month, the week ended yesterday.. ;) ) for the K Team, thanks and keep the good job.

PD= aptituding and installing in my new Ubuntu box... yeah!

KOffice for OSX, Win32? (-1, Flamebait)

Gothmolly (148874) | more than 7 years ago | (#16462859)

Sorry, KDE on Linux only = nobody cares.

OOo rocks because of PDF Export, MS format import, and it works both on OSX and Win32, so I can heartily recommend it to any user who needs a good Word-reader, PDF writer tool.

Yes: I, a KDE fan, can't use KWord: no Word import (2, Interesting)

KWTm (808824) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463037)


I've been a KDE fan ever since Mandrake 8.1, and later Kubuntu 5.10. It would be very elegant to be able to use KWord and the KOffice suite, since it integrates so well, and I can use the KIOslaves and take advantage of all the KDE features, including my favourite, completely configurable key bindings.

Nevertheless, KWord's inability to export to MS Word format is a dealbreaker. Not only don't they have a working MS Word export function, they don't even have a non-working one. They haven't started. There are no plans to do any work at all on exporting to MS Word format in the near future.

I don't have any particular fondness for MS Word, but sometimes you just need to create one when, for example, working with some complete compu-noob who is already approaching the seizure threshold just from trying to understand what a computer is; trying to explain how to convert from ODF might just send him into a coma.

There are several other things that also make KWord hard to use. On my installation of Kubuntu, KWord seems to have a screen-refreshing problem: I page down, then page up, and it just shows a blank page. Scrolling around makes the edges refresh slightly, but otherwise the page stays blank, and I have to jump through hoops to make the words appear again. At first I thought that the words really were erased and I had started to re-type.

KWord has struck me as a "very good idea" with some way to go before the implementation reflects the reality. Unfortunately, "elegant" isn't enough to get my work done, so I reluctantly installed AbiWord --a well-done piece of work, and preferable over OpenOffice v2 simply because of its loading speed if nothing else. (Yes, I know about pre-loading, and I know about disabling Java to make it run faster.)

Re:Yes: I, a KDE fan, can't use KWord: no Word imp (2, Insightful)

vga_init (589198) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463185)

It doesn't suprise me that they sidesteped MS Office support. Can you even imagine why it's important at all to support those proprietary formats?

I know interoperability is a key feature, but that's what we have OpenOffice for; KOffice is just trying to be the best office suite that it can be all by itself. It's that kind of focus that gives the project much of its promise. The article mentions that the suite surpasses OO.org and GIMP in many key features. I don't think that's a coincidence.

Also, now that the open document format is becoming more standard (and MS is begrudgingly obeying that standard), KOffice has more room to grow than it did before.

In my opinion, a good word processor/office suite acts as a tool for creation first. It just happens to double as a document viewer and exporter later, but that should not be the primary function.

Re:Yes: I, a KDE fan, can't use KWord: no Word imp (1)

msimm (580077) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463541)

Can you even imagine why it's important at all to support those proprietary formats?

Um ... its called the real world. Its out there, somewhere.

*thumbs*

Keep on trucking!

Re:Yes: I, a KDE fan, can't use KWord: no Word imp (1)

An Ominous Cow Erred (28892) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463273)

I don't have any particular fondness for MS Word, but sometimes you just need to create one when, for example, working with some complete compu-noob who is already approaching the seizure threshold just from trying to understand what a computer is; trying to explain how to convert from ODF might just send him into a coma.

I encounter this when applying for a job where the company insists that my resume be in ".doc format".

In these cases I save my resume in RTF, and rename it as .doc . Word still opens it and the braindead f**kwit in HR is happy and none-the-wiser. (That is, the sort of person who is happy BECAUSE they are not wise. =)

Re:Yes: I, a KDE fan, can't use KWord: no Word imp (1)

An Ominous Cow Erred (28892) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463285)

...as an addendum -- there's also been instances where I've renamed ASCII text files to ".doc" for the sake of people who had no idea what a text file was.

Re:Yes: I, a KDE fan, can't use KWord: no Word imp (1)

KillerBob (217953) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463597)

And out of curiosity, how many of those jobs where you're asked for resumes in .doc format have you actually gotten?

I ask, because there's a few tools that HR departments are in love with lately that parse .doc files in batches looking for specific keywords. You feed into the program the keywords you're looking for, it opens every .doc in the directory you point it at, and it returns a (hopefully) shorter list of the resumes that meet that criteria. Refine the searchwords as needed to create as short a list as needed. Often stuff like "award", and some of the words and titles that appear in the job description they're advertising for. The thing is, such programs are usually not smart enough to read other file formats, and will treat every document as a binary MS Word document. Sending them a plain text file or an RTF document that would open up in MS Word just fine accomplishes nothing if their software doesn't have the smarts to deal with documents that aren't MS Word binary.

Sometimes, it isn't some idiot in HR that's in love with MS Word. Sometimes, it's an overworked HR person who is realistically expecting hundreds or even thousands of applications for a single position, and wants to pare down the list of applicants quickly.

As an aside, I use AbiWord. It's free, and it has a passable MS Word import/export facility. It's also got filters for WordPerfect files, which is a major bonus when you're dealing with orgs that prefer that software.

Re:Yes: I, a KDE fan, can't use KWord: no Word imp (1)

Laur (673497) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463755)

As an aside, I use AbiWord. It's free, and it has a passable MS Word import/export facility.

As I responded to another poster below, AbiWord doesn't export to .doc, they save as rtf with a doc extension (exactly as the parent recommended). Also, KWord can import docs and save to rtf. I have no idea if the import is better/worse than AbiWord or OpenOfice.org, but I would suspect that they are all very similar.

Re:Yes: I, a KDE fan, can't use KWord: no Word imp (1)

pherthyl (445706) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463769)

As an aside, I use AbiWord. It's free, and it has a passable MS Word import/export facility.

And out of curiosity, how many of those jobs where you created your resume in Abiword have you actually gotten?

I think you should read this (as already posted by someone else): http://www.abisource.com/twiki/bin/view/Abiword/Fa qMicrosoftWordDocuments [abisource.com]

"AbiWord can currently save in an MS Word compatible ".doc" format. This is done by saving as Rich Text Format (.rtf) but with a .doc extension. (...) There are no plans to support binary MS Word export."

Re:Yes: I, a KDE fan, can't use KWord: no Word imp (4, Informative)

Laur (673497) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463657)

Nevertheless, KWord's inability to export to MS Word format is a dealbreaker... so I reluctantly installed AbiWord

Abiword doesn't really export to doc either, they just save as rtf and give it a .doc extension (see here [abisource.com]. KWord can easily save to rtf, and even lists it as "RTF Document (Microsoft Word Compatible)" in the save-as dialog. Maybe you can request that the developers add an option to automatically save as rtf with a doc extension, just like Abiword, although I don't personally consider having to change a document extension manually a "dealbreaker."

Re:Yes: I, a KDE fan, can't use KWord: no Word imp (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 7 years ago | (#16465055)

A significant amount of the development effort towards openoffice has been wasted reverse engineering microsoft's proprietary formats...\
Had a complete open spec for these formats been available, implementing of them would have been a lot quicker and all that development effort could have gone towards improving the suite as a whole.
KOffice tries to be the best it can, and therefore they're not wasting development time trying to reverse engineer a soon to be obsoleted file format.
In the mean time, you can use openoffice to convert to/from proprietary microsoft formats, and it does a much better job of reading/writing word files than ms publisher does (go figure)

Re:KOffice for OSX, Win32? (2, Informative)

The MESMERIC (766636) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463043)

Koffice is optimized for KDE.
Hence things fire in a split second.
So for very quick jobs it can be neat.

OpenOffice takes ages to fire-up add Firefox to the list too.

Now for all you lovers of proprietory and closed-source software,
these guys used to code a neat fast loading Word/Excel alternative:
http://www.softmaker.com/ [softmaker.com]

Re:KOffice for OSX, Win32? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16464777)

FYI OpenOffice.org 2.2 is pretty fast. Google for 2.2's optimisation videos

Re:KOffice for OSX, Win32? (1)

temcat (873475) | more than 7 years ago | (#16465153)

Uhm... where can I download it? :-) I mean, the latest version is 2.0.4.

Printing in KDE (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16463067)

OOo rocks because of PDF Export...

In KDE, any application can print to PDF, Postscript, and fax. That has been the case for years...

You can even print to PDF and attach the PDF to an email message in one smooth move.

Re:KOffice for OSX, Win32? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16463253)

"KDE on Linux only = nobody cares." Incorrect, though it may not matter to you, it does matter to the people that use it.

For people who complain about GIMP (2, Insightful)

frup (998325) | more than 7 years ago | (#16462885)

Well maybe now all those people who go "OOOH gimps not like photoshop" or "Linux image editors suck" can be silenced?

Re:For people who complain about GIMP (4, Interesting)

photomonkey (987563) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463279)

Not really, because a lot of the people I know that use Pshop and other Win/Mac only photo software can't get the linux stuff to do what we want easily enough.

I need simple support for camera raw files, multiple (including uncommon) colorspaces, exif and IPTC/XMP support and respect, and better image browsing/sorting tools.

I am a professional photographer and have tried to put together a linux system that would meet ALL the requirements of the job, and have been as yet unable to do so. And I don't mean "I took a weekend" kind of trying.

Show me a combination of linux software packages that work as well as (not use the same cpu cycles, not use less memory, not play well with t'0pen s0-urse' file formats) or better than (that's where I get concerned with hardware requirements, hardware compatibility and system overhead) the industry standard Photoshop+PhotoMechanic+NoiseNinja (or some other noise correction software) combo, and I will be frucking amazed.

This actually raises a good question. I'm a professional photographer (news, commercial, portrait and event) and I need to be able to quickly and easily dump a CF card onto a computer, apply IPTC/XMP information to them while or after ingesting the photos, browse collections of these photos (.NEF [Nikon RAW file format], jpeg and tif files), and edit them in or convert them between industry-standard colorspaces such as (but not limited to) CYMK, Adobe 98, and of course, some flavor of sRGB.

Oh yeah, and the software/OS need to support hardware-level or equally good color profiling as well as a general high quality photo scanner, negative scanner (for digging into the older, pre-digital work) and photo printer.

So how do I do it?

PS, I am totally willing to help/advise an ambitious Linux zealot put together a Linux distro or software package that steps it up to the professional level. I and others would love to stop giving Adobe $800 every time they drop a new Pshop. I can't code, but I sure as hell know what needs to be accomplished with the software and am willing to help with look and feel. I'm serious.

Until there is support for the nitty-gritty necessary to the job, pros won't care and consumers will continue to use the 'easier' Win/Mac stuff.

Re:For people who complain about GIMP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16464499)

I and others would love to stop giving Adobe $800 every time they drop a new Pshop.

Why do you need new photoshop every time there is one? Where does that need come from? Is it intentional or coincidence that you need it when new photoshop version is available? Is there anything else you could do to stop the cycle, other than moving to linux?

They are out to get you(r money).

Re:For people who complain about GIMP (1)

frup (998325) | more than 7 years ago | (#16464747)

Donating $800 to opensource programmers plus this advice could go a long way. But I don't use photoshop professionally, infact I only use photoshop at uni because theres nothing else and gimp does everything I need. Many people complain purely about the GUI though, which KOffice appears to handle better than GIMP. I'm actually quite glad to see thoughtful criticism by someone who knows what they're talking about/wan't . Personally I'm saving up to give a donation to a CAD package... I want something that better represents AutoCAD features. I won't go off topic.

Re:For people who complain about GIMP (1)

xtracto (837672) | more than 7 years ago | (#16464937)

Not really, because a lot of the people I know that use Pshop and other Win/Mac only photo software can't get the linux stuff to do what we want easily enough.

Yeah, I agree witih you on this. I am still looking for linux programs to replace irfanview and paint.net. I do not need (and certainly don't like) to use a beast like the GIMP to do certain small tasks, I am a game programmer and usually slightly modify (resize, crop, batch rename, change RGB colors, etc) images. But doing that with GIMP and other linux programs is really a mess. I have Picasa, but it is really an album manager and does not let me do everything irfanview let me do...

And then I have Paint.NET which was my replacement for MSPaint. I use it when I need to slightly edit some sprite or quickly cut & paste a screen shot or something (does anyone know how to assign the "copy screen" behaviour to the printscreen on KDE?).

Maybe it is me but I have not found the right tool for me. I do not have time to look for a lot of them and that is my problem with Linux, there are so many apps (of course sometimes that is good =o)).

Nowadays I have crossover (installed the beta and man I am REALLY liking it) and use irfanview with it. I have not tried Paint.NET but I will give it a try as soon as I can. (of course any recommendation of software is welcome)

Re:For people who complain about GIMP (1)

Warbringer87 (969664) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463447)

Now thats not quite fair. Sure there are plenty of idiots, but I personally hate the way GIMP does things. If you want to convince anyone to switch to an open source or free alternative to Photoshop, it better be easy to get accustomed to, something familiar, and GIMP fails at this. Hopefully Krita succeeds. Like I mentioned before, I am looking forward to a windows release.

What the hell is this crap? (-1, Troll)

bluefoxlucid (723572) | more than 7 years ago | (#16462897)

In gimp, hit Colors and hit the printer icon, and guess what? CYMK. It's been in there for ETERNITY. What is this crap?

Re:What the hell is this crap? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16462949)

We'd like it to store the image data as CMYK, instead of just letting you pick a colour in CMYK, which it then immediately converts to RGB internally.

CYMK done wrong (1)

r00t (33219) | more than 7 years ago | (#16464455)

CYMK is a device-specific color space. Normally, it should be produced by your printer driver. You certainly don't have a CYMK monitor for editing. CYMK is also ambiguous; there are multiple ways to represent a color. There are two legit ways to deal with CYMK:

Method one is RGB. Don't whine about the gamut, because there is wide-gamut RGB. Probably the nicest way to deal with this is an RGB consisting of the sRGB primaries as linear floating-point values. Things that would normally be out-of-gamut for sRGB can be represented by numbers outside of the normal 0 to 1 range. For normal editing, this method is superior.

Method two is spot colors. You edit the color channels individually. You see them in greyscale unless you supply a profile for CMYK-to-RBG conversion. Editing tools know nothing of the color; they ONLY operate on individual channels. This method is normally lame, but it does let you use weird stuff like a gold-green sparkly ink for your money-making operations.

Re:What the hell is this crap? (4, Informative)

MrZaius (321037) | more than 7 years ago | (#16462973)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIMP [wikipedia.org]
"For the future it is planned to base GIMP on a more generic graphical library called GEGL, thereby addressing some fundamental design limitations that prevent many enhancements such as native CMYK support. However, implementation of this plan has been continually put off since 2000."

An eternity, eh? Apparently CYMK hasn't been in there long enough to get inclusion in the Wikipedia article. Also, are you sure you aren't just using the plugin? http://www.blackfiveservices.co.uk/separate.shtml [blackfiveservices.co.uk]

Re:What the hell is this crap? (2, Informative)

ocelotbob (173602) | more than 7 years ago | (#16462979)

Not quite the same, because you're going to blow through pages getting things looking good. Native CMYK from start to finish means you don't have to do the inevitable tweaks to the document when converting between colorspaces.

Camera and scanner are not CMYK (2, Insightful)

tepples (727027) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463427)

Native CMYK from start to finish means you don't have to do the inevitable tweaks to the document when converting between colorspaces.

Your prosumer camera and scanner are not CMYK, which negates "from start" in a lot of cases. In addition, your computer monitor is not CMYK. Any intermediate view sent to a computer monitor will not be CMYK; it'll be a conversion, and conversions tend to be fallible.

Re:Camera and scanner are not CMYK (1)

ocelotbob (173602) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463829)

Who said anything about prosumer? Prepress work, which is where CMYK is used, is pro-grade. Yes A) I have done prepress work, and B) I have been bitten by GIMP's faux CMYK. I probably would have saved time and money by renting a machine at Kinkos for a few hours to do the work with photoshop. Besides, converting to CMYK at acquisition time makes the corrections a lot easier than after you've already done the color correction and calibration to handle the variations of the CCD.

CMYK was your mistake (2, Informative)

r00t (33219) | more than 7 years ago | (#16464531)

For prepress work, the GIMP's real limitations are:

1. only 8-bit channels
2. most code is ignorant of gamma

CMYK as an editing format is normally very wrong. If you use spot colors, then maybe WITH DEVICE PROFILES it is reasonable to do some work using the color channels individually. Don't ever get the idea of painting in CMYK, which is as defective as saving your temporary work files in highly-compressed JPEG.

The other thing you need for prepress work is a proper RGB-to-CMYK output conversion. This is specific to your press, ink, paper, and other conditions. You should expect your vendors to provide you with a decent conversion. For an excellent conversion, you will need to measure the expected press/ink/paper setup yourself.

Note: if you worked in CMYK, you'd need a CMYK-to-CMYK conversion! Your press output will vary based on the ink and paper you use. It may vary with other factors, such as the humidity at which you stored the paper. So don't imagine that CMYK would let you get away without conversion. It just makes things worse.

It's really the 8-bit channels and gamma fuckups that make the GIMP unacceptable, but you made things much worse by falling for the CMYK myth.

Ummm, dude? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16464643)

You're really bringing everybody down by getting into that whole "reality" mess. People have gotten very used to proclaiming they're "pros" who've no, really, actually tried the Gimp and supporting that obviously specious claim with the "I can't use it because it doesn't do CMYK" line; you're totally blowing their cover. Stop it, k? Cause really, noone needs to know they really live in mom's basement and make their meager income with a paper route, and besides, what did they ever do to you?

pile of K*** (-1, Flamebait)

The_Abortionist (930834) | more than 7 years ago | (#16462921)

When will people just abandon KDE? It's the worst graphical environment for Linux in terms of stability and resource management, and it's the most complicated to use. It lacks a proper license that allows running commercial applications freely. Even Windows 3.1 didn't require to a special license just to run applications.

Re:pile of K*** (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16463393)

Whenever GNOME or some other X11 environment in sucks less than KDE after I've tried it. That's not the case at this time, nor has it ever been the case since KDE hit 1.0, so I'll continue to use and recommend it.

If Janitor in a Drum made a douche, would anybody (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16463069)


If Janitor in a Drum made a douche, would anybody buy it?

Now the long wait for Fedora packages. . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16463101)

SuSe has it today. So does Kubuntu. Debian will likely get it tomorrow.

We'll probably have it for Fedora next month :(

If we're lucky!

Kgnaa bugs (-1, Troll)

chuckfucter (703084) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463115)

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Kerning (3, Interesting)

BeeBeard (999187) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463117)

Oh please, let it have improved font kerning in KWord. T he str ange way it pu ts gaps betwe en words keeps me from using it full time.

Re:Kerning (2, Informative)

Atmchicago (555403) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463631)

From what I understand, this is at least in part a Qt 3.x issue, and will be fixed in Koffice 2.0 with the port to Qt 4.x. The big showstopper for me, and most people, is the lack of Microsoft Word support. See http://koffice.kde.org/filters/1.6/ [kde.org].

Re:Kerning (1)

Laur (673497) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463809)

The big showstopper for me, and most people, is the lack of Microsoft Word support.

KWord can import MS Word docs, I just tried and it works, although I have no idea why your link doesn't list it. It can't export to doc, but it can save to rtf (which is what AbiWord does to achieve doc export, they just save rtf output with a doc extension).

Re:Kerning (1)

Laur (673497) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463937)

I realize it's bad form to reply to your own post, however I found a better list of formats that KWord supports at [kde.org]http://docs.kde.org/development/en/koffice/kword/f ilters-included.html [kde.org] .

For the lazy:

Application/ Import/ Export
Abiword/ Yes/ Yes
AmiPro/ Yes/ Yes
Applixword/ Yes/ No
HTML/ Yes/ Yes
KPresenter/ Yes/ No
Hancom Word/ Yes/ No
Magic Point Presentation/ Yes/ No
Microsoft® Powerpoint/ Yes/ No
Microsoft® Word/ Yes/ No
Microsoft® Write/ Yes/ Yes
Oasis OpenDocument/ Yes/ Yes
Openoffice.org Presentation/ Yes/ No
Openoffice.org Text Document/ Yes/ Yes
Palm Document/ Yes/ Yes
PDF/ Yes/ No
Plain Text/ Yes/ Yes
RTF/ Yes/ Yes
SGML/ No/ Yes
TeX Document/ No/ Yes
WML/ Yes/ Yes
Wordperfect/ Yes/ Yes
XML/ Yes/ No

"In teh world" (1)

TheModelEskimo (968202) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463123)

Together with the other improvements, this release probably makes it the best free image editor in the world.
Hm, there's flamebait if I've ever heard it. But I'll bite. Krita needs a lot more help than CMYK support. It's a promising app, but the interface graphics and overall experience could really use some polish. I checked out the changelog and I see there's a new icon set for the "too", which sounds promising...

Re:"In teh world" (1)

Epeeist (2682) | more than 7 years ago | (#16464585)

Obviously not seen the the latest version of Krita, the version I run (1.4.2) is significantly buggy.

It is a developing app with great potential and it will overtake the GIMP unless the latter actually improves its rate of development. At the moment it seems glacial, how long have we been waiting for 2.4 (which will still only have 8 bit colour)?

Windows Version? (2, Interesting)

cgenman (325138) | more than 7 years ago | (#16463919)

The one thing I really miss about Linux (besides Grep... and skill... and alt-get... and perl that works) is Kmail. I remember hearing from a developer a while back that the port to QT 4 on the 2.0 branch was going to allow for a Windows compatible version.

Does anybody know if this is still the plan? I'd love to move back to Koffice.

Re:Windows Version? (1)

Randle_Revar (229304) | more than 7 years ago | (#16464539)

I have heard a little talk about KDE on Windows recently (I think the Amarok guys mentioned it the most recently), so I think that is still the plan, although I don't know that it will be a high priority for them. I don't use Windows anymore, but if I did, I know Amarok and KOffice would definitely improve my user experience :-)

Oh, and KMail is not part of KOffice, although maybe it should be to compete with MS Office.

Re:Windows Version? (1)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 7 years ago | (#16465207)

This has to be the first time I've heard anybody say "I would switch to that office suite, if only it ran on Windows" rather than "I would switch to that operating system, if only it ran my office suite".

Great! (4, Funny)

oohshiny (998054) | more than 7 years ago | (#16464621)

With this release KOffice also surpasses OpenOffice.org in some ways, e.g. it handles over 70% of the W3C MathML test suite while Openoffice.org only handles 22%.

Any other pointless areas in which KOffice surpasses OpenOffice?

Re:Great! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16464947)

integration in the desktop environment, speed, components (oo doesn't have a pixel based draw app like krita), may be other...

MathML (1)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 7 years ago | (#16465225)

``KOffice also surpasses OpenOffice.org in some ways, e.g. it handles over 70% of the W3C MathML''

Yeah, like anybody uses that.
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