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How Warcraft Doesn't Have To Wreck Lives

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the it's-not-all-bad dept.

274

robustyoungsoul writes "From the same guild leadership as the fellow who started an internet storm with his post about his experience in WoW comes a different point of view: it doesn't have to consume your life." From the article: "I got a Masters degree in policy from one of the most difficult schools in the country while at the same time playing WoW and working a part time job. I would come home from a busy day and think about how to use what I learned to make the guild work better. It was a way for me to practice what I was learning and to discover what was involved with leading people (mostly getting all the blame and no thanks, it seems :P). I've learned the lessons of clear communication, sacrifice, compassion, tough love ... and balance. I plan to use these skills in my professional life. So in short, I play the game because I get something tangible out of it."

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274 comments

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yeah OK (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#16516749)

and I bite my nails for the added protein

Check slashdot tomorrow (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#16516765)

For a new article, titled World of Warcraft May Consume Your Life, or It Also May Not, You Never Know!

Re:Check slashdot tomorrow (5, Funny)

VitrosChemistryAnaly (616952) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517293)

For a new article, titled World of Warcraft May Consume Your Life, or It Also May Not, You Never Know!
How very neutral of you!

Zapp Brannigan: "What makes a man turn neutral ... Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?"

or

Zapp Brannigan: "I hate these filthy neutrals Kif! With enemies you know where they stand but with neutrals? Who knows! It sickens me."

Simple (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#16516797)

If you don't play Warcraft, it is unlikely to wreck your life.

Re:Simple (5, Insightful)

NoTheory (580275) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517353)

Well, yes short of that, things become more complicated. The problem with this rebuttal is that it's only anecdotal. If you're a high function person who can prioritize well, and can pull themselves away from distractions to get work done, then yeah, you can dump your spare time into WoW and not be worse off for it. I'm betting that doesn't describe too many of MMO players. That's why the analogy to addiction has been made to video game usage. Not all people are the same, and some are going to be have their functionality as a person effected disproportionately from other people. And again, i'd bet that there are more people pissing away their lives on WoW than their are people who can just hop on and off (alternatively, who cares about the people who are perfectly functional on and off WoW, shouldn't we be worrying about the people pissing their lives away, since they're the ones in trouble?).

Re:Simple (2, Insightful)

GodaiYuhsaku (543082) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517993)

Wasn't the original article about WoW wrecking a persons life is only anecdotal? I can offer my own anecdotal evidence about my personal life. But both sides of these articles are a moot point unless you attempt to do an professional objective psychological study. Give some poor Psych grad student his thesis on WOW addiction.

Re:Simple (3, Informative)

Brushfireb (635997) | more than 6 years ago | (#16518125)

And again, i'd bet that there are more people pissing away their lives on WoW than their are people who can just hop on and off

Correct. And the blizzard guys have made this so. I was one of those people who wanted to hop on or hop off. Play solo, or do small quests with small groups of friends that would only take 30 minutes, 1 hour, or max 2 hours at a time.

But blizzard doesnt produce content like that, so a lot of the people like me, including me, stopped playing. The game is remarkably good at this type of content from levels 1-40. However, the developers seem to focus more on 20, 40, 60 man raid dungeons, and not single player quests. You cant really be functional and play WOW at high levels, unfortunately. High level WOW play requires 8 hour raids. It requires constantly running dungeons and PVP for items. And that sucks for me, but some people love it (the so called 'addicts'), and thats what they pay for.

Re:Simple (1)

Ieshan (409693) | more than 6 years ago | (#16518127)

First of all, the story you read last week was an anecdote, too. It's not as if last week was a published study and this is a random guy saying "nuh uh!"


"And again, i'd bet that there are more people pissing away their lives on WoW than their are people who can just hop on and off (alternatively, who cares about the people who are perfectly functional on and off WoW, shouldn't we be worrying about the people pissing their lives away, since they're the ones in trouble?)."


That's like asking, "shouldn't we focus on the problem area without worrying how much of the population they actually represent?"

I mean, people die from eating pizza and choking on it. They're a very small percentage of the population of pizza eaters. But we don't ban pizza. Without knowing something about the rest of the population, we don't really know anything at all about the degree to which the game impacts lives.

Re:Simple (1)

fbjon (692006) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517399)

Even if you play it, it's still too simple to ruin your life. Now, Warcraft II on the other hand ...

Quoi? (2, Funny)

BecomingLumberg (949374) | more than 6 years ago | (#16516813)

When did life experience become tangible?

Re:Quoi? (1)

NoTheory (580275) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517417)

The day people woke up and realized that you could "add value" to products :P

Or maybe the day that people decided higher education was an asset towards climbing out of destitution, and misery?

Re:Quoi? (1)

The Amazing Fish Boy (863897) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517945)

Or maybe the day that people decided higher education was an asset towards climbing out of destitution, and misery?

Yeah, right after it puts you through years of destitution and misery.

All it takes is (4, Insightful)

Broken scope (973885) | more than 6 years ago | (#16516815)

self control and the ability to tell a guild to go to hell. I have work to do.

Re:All it takes is (5, Interesting)

Fozzyuw (950608) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517253)

Indeed. The original article is "popular" or "important" because it's to introduce people to the knowledge that there is a phenominon in the game culture that can extend outside the actual game (talk about virtual reality, hehe). Not that, "gaming in moderation" can be good for you.

What is interesting, however, is the fact that these online games (having a virtual social and economic society) can actually be used to find the effects of 'real' world social and economic theories theories. I be interested in reading an article written about using WoW to try and munipulate market prices through supply and demand in an online economy (one which has limitless but rare materials) or other economic and social theories to see how they hold true in todays popular virtual worlds.

How about running guilds in a communist, democratic, and socialist way and compare the differences in impact? Do online gamers have inherent social beliefs based on their real world counterpart (depending where you live), or would a person living in a real-world democracy actually favor an opposing view point?

Cheers,
Fozzy

Re:All it takes is (1)

the dark hero (971268) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517493)

...or you can just play Eve Online and filter through all the 12 year olds and get much better research.

Balance (5, Insightful)

scoser (780371) | more than 6 years ago | (#16516819)

+1, Obvious.

It's all about balance, people. I love my gaming time, but I don't give up food, sleep, work, etc. just to play my two MMORPGs (SWG and Eve Online). Maybe it's just that my games don't require 4 hour instances at the end game or maybe I just know when I'm tired, hungry, or have other commitments.

Sometimes you just have to say "Hey guys, I'm starving/tired/going to do something else for a while, see you later."

Re:Balance (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#16517031)

I hate to say it, but we live in a society of grown up children that believe that being Mature is about the rating that is printed on the box of the videogame you play. The fact is that the problem people have with WoW is no different than the obesity epidemic (or the credit/debt problems) in North America in that most people have no ability to self regulate their input of something they desire. Personally, I believe that WoW addiction is just another sign that our society has something wrong with it that no one is paying attention to.

Re:Balance (1)

jdray (645332) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517373)

While I agree with you wholeheartedly, I would ask whether or not the problem is limited to North America (you really mean the U.S., right?). I don't know WoW beyond what I read about it here on Slashdot; how diverse is the population with respect to the country of residence of the players?

Re:Balance (1)

LurkerXXX (667952) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517653)

Why should it be limited to North America? It's a matter of self control.

There are alcoholics in pretty much every country, and other folks who can be only social drinkers and not go overboard.

There are folks addicted to gambling all across the world, and other folks who never gamble, or just do a bit now an then for fun.

Being from any certain culture doesn't give automatic immunity from a lack of self control or addiction. It will mearly lower it's rate in the population if there are laws or cultural taboo's against it, but not prevent it entirely.

Re:Balance (1)

Sassinak (150422) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517773)

Ironically this goes back to my old arguement of people not taking responsibility for their actions.

You watch, pretty soon, someone is going to sue Blizzard for making the game because it caused "undo stress in their lives and is addictive".

Re:Balance (1)

Bastard of Subhumani (827601) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517947)

There are alcoholics in pretty much every country
I live in Iran, you insensitive clod!!!!

Re:Balance (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#16518053)

It's not limited to North America, it's just that the nanny-state in America has gotten to the point that people seem to be under the mistaken impression that the purpose of society is to make everything perfect so everyone is on an even playing field in all aspects of life and all problems are solved for everyone.

In other words, in a lot of other countries where you don't hear so much whining about "addiction" and "imbalance", people generally look at folks like yesterday's case study in pathetic and say "quit being such a whiny knob and take a little responsibility for yourself for once" rather than jumping and down and pointing fingers at everyone except the guy who refuses to exercise any restraint.

Sorry, but I'm getting more than a little fed up with this childish "Wah wah EQ/WoW/EQ2 ruined my life" nonsense and venting it seemd to be pretty on-topic in regards to your post about self-control in various cultures.

Re:Balance (1)

Vreejack (68778) | more than 6 years ago | (#16518381)

North America is not a synonym for the USA. While he probably meant to exclude Mexico, Canadians speak adequate English and share time zones with the US. Considering its population, Canada seems to provide more than its fair share of my fellow on-line players.

In the on-line world Canada is often thought of as another state in the North American Union, and as a home is about as interesting a piece of personal information as is being from Michigan or Ohio.

I still have not met anyone from Mexico, however.

Re:Balance (4, Informative)

sheetsda (230887) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517851)

Personally, I believe that WoW addiction is just another sign that our society has something wrong with it that no one is paying attention to.

I am someone who has recently given up WoW after being an officer one of the top raiding guilds on a maximum population server for the last year and a half (over 110 days /played and enough epic items to gear my characters 3 times over). What kept me coming back was partly the friends I made online, and partly the obligation I felt not to "let them down" by not being there when the guild needed me. I also felt like I would fall behind every time a missed a raid, as someone might pass me in DKP and then I'd have to play even more to get the loot I was after. The scarcity of loot in WoW puts players in competition with one another and drives them to play more than the other to get what they want. And if I wanted to see that brand-spanking new instance the day it came out (and what gamer doesn't love seeing cool new stuff the day it comes out?), I had to be there get geared up to take it on beforehand. The only things I see that could be seen as "faults in our society" in my case are the pressure to excel, being a team player, or hard-worker; all of which prove very much to one's advantage in other situations. WoW seems just to have taken those things and put them in a context where they drive people to self-destruction.

All things considered, for me, WoW was one viscious self-perpetuating positive feedback loop. I'm glad I'm done "doing time".

Re:Balance (2, Insightful)

Vraylle (610820) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517181)

I just started playing WoW, pretty much in "single player mode". I enjoy games in general, and WoW is a fun escape in reasonable doses. Last night I spent an hour or so fishing and chatting with another fisherman and joking about our excessively pointy ears. It was fun, but it wasn't hard to say "It's time for bed, catch you next time."

Fun, but I just can't see myself getting addicted to it. People on there 10 hours a day clearly aren't working full time, then coming home to cook dinner and chop firewood like I am. Priorities, anyone?

Re:Balance (1)

kin_korn_karn (466864) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517613)

You must be my other personality. I started playing WoW a couple of weeks ago. Mainly because I wanted to play an RPG and my PC can't run Oblivion. I only group when I absolutely have to - I still don't get how the loot rolling thing works, need vs. greed and all that. I have no intention of joining a guild or getting involved in stuff outside of the game, or meeting up with friends online. PvP has no interest for me.

the nice thing about WoW is that it's possible to enjoy it casually. I don't think many other MMORPGs are like that.

Re:Balance (1)

lymond01 (314120) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517657)

Well, sure. I don't believe that people who already realize their real-life responsibilities are going to get addicted. It's those that put off their responsibilities in the first place, and then find this game that have the problem. As a generalization, it is very possible that one could never be without something important to do. Most people just don't stop to think about what's important. Examples:

- Christmas Shopping
- Writing letters to old friends
- Tending to the house/yard/animals
- Creating something, anything
- Writing your congressperson
- Writing documentation for all your spaghetti code

Re:Balance (-1, Troll)

kin_korn_karn (466864) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517747)

- Christmas Shopping
What if it's January?

- Writing letters to old friends
Don't have their address. And who gives a shit? You stopped talking to them for a reason.

- Tending to the house/yard/animals
Point, but sometimes the only things that need to be done require resources you don't have access to (i.e. you need new carpet but don't have the money so there's nothing you can do)

- Creating something, anything
Some people consider developing a character to be a creative process.

- Writing your congressperson
Like they give a fuck. If voting could change anything they wouldn't let us do it.

- Writing documentation for all your spaghetti code
It's Open Source. It doesn't need documentation, just read the source. /devils-advocate

Re:Balance (2, Insightful)

drsquare (530038) | more than 6 years ago | (#16518413)

Some people consider developing a character to be a creative process.


How is it creative when all the characters are the same and and are all chasing the same equipment?

Re:Balance (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#16517209)

SWG? It must be nice to have a whole MMORPG to yourself....

Re:Balance (1)

Son.Of.Dad (1010199) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517705)

i was thinking the same thing. that game died as soon as Jedi were introduced....ok, maybe space, but still...get a bone sample on that game so we can carbon date it

I know how Warcraft doesn't have to wreck lives. (2, Funny)

palswim (982779) | more than 6 years ago | (#16516823)

When the title on the Warcraft game box says Warcraft: Orcs & Humans.

This is Deep but Not Profound (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#16516825)

Man there was this thing that we had back in the day. What was it called again?

Oh, that's right, moderation.

Too much of a good thing is bad. Strive for just the right amount.

Re:This is Deep but Not Profound (1)

ChibiLZ (697816) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517489)

Agreed totally. I manage to juggle a full-time job, 2 entrepreneurial interests, a girlfriend, and still manage to play World of Warcraft. I'm not addicted, and WoW certainly isn't ruining my life. In fact, my liver is probably thanking me, since WoW has replaced some of my bar runs with friends.

Is the reason that some people don't get addicted to WoW because they're just too busy with other things? I can't imagine playing 10 hours per day, doesn't it get boring after too long?

Re:This is Deep but Not Profound (1)

Fayn (1003629) | more than 6 years ago | (#16518137)

And yet....

"Don't buy WoW Gold! Make it yourself! [easygoldguide.com]"

Re:This is Deep but Not Profound (1)

indifferent children (842621) | more than 6 years ago | (#16518133)

You can blame me for a lack of moderation, but in the end it's not my fault that I don't have any mod points today.

I got a masters in Aerospace (3, Insightful)

everphilski (877346) | more than 6 years ago | (#16516865)

from a respected school in Aerospace while holding down a full time job (often with overtime), a wife and kids and playing Everquest (occasionally WoW. My friends play, but I prefer EQ). It all comes down to self-control. The game is not the problem. It is individual people's lack of self-control and lack of priorities that cause problems.

Re:I got a masters in Aerospace (4, Insightful)

fbjon (692006) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517449)

It could partially be a problem with the game, if it requires excessive amounts of time to be amusing enough for the majority of players.

Masters degree in policy (-1, Troll)

szembek (948327) | more than 6 years ago | (#16516867)

What the hell is a Masters degree in policy? Sounds like a liberal arts degree to me.

Re:Masters degree in policy (1, Troll)

Bastard of Subhumani (827601) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517455)

What the hell is a Masters degree in policy? Sounds like a liberal arts degree to me.
Ah, but he got it from "one of the most difficult schools in the country". I'm struggling for the analogy, but I think this fits: "I'm a midget, but I *am* really tall, honestly. By midget standards, anyway".

Re:Masters degree in policy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#16518145)

Means he wants a job in HR.

Article is ridiculous (1)

the computer guy nex (916959) | more than 6 years ago | (#16516871)

WoW doesn't have near the effect on gamers that Evercrack had. WoW is just more mainstream.

WoW is an extremely easy game marketed to the average player. Everquest was much more difficult, and required much more time. You couldn't do anything in that game without devoting 4 straight hours, usually double that if you were in a high-end guild. It puts WoW to shame.

Re:Article is ridiculous (1)

tont0r (868535) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517003)

While its been a few months that Ive played wow, but when you are in a good guild, you end up dropping 6 hours in 1 raid instance. And I definitely (shamefully admitting) spent too many saturdays running MC from 12-4, then BWL from 6 to whenever its done.

Re:Article is ridiculous (1)

rehtonAesoohC (954490) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517407)

I wouldn't say that it puts WoW to shame... I would say that it puts the PLAYERS to shame. I mean, it was called Evercrack... enough said.

Re:Article is ridiculous (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#16518043)

I wouldn't call that more difficult, just a bigger time-sink for the same "reward" (loot, gold, whatever). Doubling the size of all dungeons in WoW wouldn't make it more difficult, just longer and lamer.

Lives? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#16516879)

Lives need to be nerfed they are overpowered

Re:Lives? (1, Troll)

0xABADC0DA (867955) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517533)

After 9.11 Bush said "I've maxed out this Priest class" and rolled a Warlock. But he hasn't realized yet that Death Coil is on a 2-year timer and diminishing returns against Target(Voter) has made them immune to Fear Effects for the next 30 days.

Welcome to unemployment! (-1, Flamebait)

xxxJonBoyxxx (565205) | more than 6 years ago | (#16516897)

I got a Masters degree in policy from one of the most difficult schools in the country while at the same time playing WoW...


Great. Another fucking bureaucrat "making policy" with only a tenuous connection to the real world. At least it's likely this guy has no job; it's hard to network with hiring drones when you're playing WoW all day.

How Warcraft Doesn't Have to Wreck Lives... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#16516911)

...Turn the damn computer off. Seriously, the people who whinge about being seriously "addicted" to video games obviously have no idea what true addiction is. Being an addict is _not_ the same as being someone too irresponsible to limit their gaming time.

Cue all the people who are going to cite studies to the contrary...the only disease they're suffering from is SALS, sad-ass-loser syndrome.

Re:How Warcraft Doesn't Have to Wreck Lives... (4, Insightful)

static0verdrive (776495) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517389)

I disagree. I play warcraft, and I know about addiction. It's not like you think to yourself every 10 minutes "Hey... I'm still playing but should stop!" You look up after 3 hours and go "WTF? I thought it had only been an hour!" Part of that is due to the fact that it takes a long time (sometimes) to get even simple things done, thanks to having to run around and fly here/there, etc. Addiction to other substances like alcohol is no different. Based on what you've said, you could say "Why not just avoid pouring another drink?" Being an addict IS being unable to limit yourself. It's mostly about having a problem with reality/sobriety in the first place. It doesn't matter what you are addicted to - be it sex, drugs, or rock'n'roll, baby.

You do not know about addiction (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#16518023)

being an addict IS being unable to limit yourself.

No, it really isn't, not at all. the inability to limit yourself is a lack of moderation, not addiction.

Playing WoW for 3 hours does not qualify you to speak about addiction, it simply points to the fact you have a very poor sense of time.

I spent every day of my form the age of 21 to the age of 29 shooting Heroin. That is addiction. I stole form friends family and strangers to get more drugs. I lied to everybody in my life to try and hide my problem. I got divorced because of it, I got fired because of it and I lost numerous friends to suicide, overdose, and murder because of it.

By the way, very often I was able to limit myself; I was able to put enough away for morning so I could start the cycle all over again.

Before you claim to know about addiction ask yourself, have you ever mugged somebody to get money to play WoW? Have you ever done a B&E to get money to play WoW. Have you ever seen your life go down the drain because of WoW and say "fuck it, I would rather play WoW then be married anyway"

Calling the kid who plays to much WoW an addict is an insult to addicts all over the world. I personally have never gotten a chick to suck me off by telling her is she sucks my cock I will give her some WoW.

Addiction is about a singular obsession and compulsion, not a poor sense of time.

(I've been clean for 3 years now)

Re:You do not know about addiction (0, Troll)

Umbral Blot (737704) | more than 6 years ago | (#16518231)

Gee, by that logic I guess cigarettes aren't an addiction either, at least for most people. I'll go tell the tobacco companies that they're off the hook.

Re:You do not know about addiction (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#16518299)

you obvioulsy don't smoke or you would know that nicotine is a singular obsesion and compulsion when you do not have it.

So I guess by that logic, your attempt to insult has failed. I guess I should tell the mods not to mod you flamebait, and simply attribute your stupid comment to ignorance rather then malice.

Why I won't play WoW (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#16516917)

The reason I won't play Wow is not because it actively destroys people. It's because of the potential for what can happen to someone who plays Wow. I played entirely too much Diablo 2 back in the day (Ok, I'm not that old...). I know that if I started Wow and put as much time and effort into it as I did into Diablo 2 I would be in some serious trouble. Last time I tried to start an mmorpg I kinda got bored after a while. Could this happen with WoW? Maybe but not necessarily. The last MMO I played was no where near as good as Wow probably is. I see my own refusal to start Wow as a reluctant recognition that it might actually be the best. If it's really that good I could get sucked in and I don't want to become another one of those stories like we saw on here the other day.

Re:Why I won't play WoW (2, Funny)

indifferent children (842621) | more than 6 years ago | (#16518285)

I played entirely too much Diablo 2 back in the day (Ok, I'm not that old...).

I played entirely too much Wolfenstein 3D back in the day. That doesn't make me too old, but this does: the only reason that I tried Wolfenstein 3D was because of all of time that I spent playing the original Castle Wolfenstein on an Apple ][+.

Uh huh... (5, Informative)

creimer (824291) | more than 6 years ago | (#16516921)

So in short, I play the game because I get something tangible out of it.

That's what I thought when I was at the university playing Magic: The Gathering [wikipedia.org] until the wee hours of the morning. I got something tangible out of it when I was kicked out of the university: a full-time resturant job. Nothing like learning about the real world between a hot cooking area and a cold walk-in cooler.

Re:Uh huh... (4, Funny)

vjmurphy (190266) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517041)

"Nothing like learning about the real world between a hot cooking area and a cold walk-in cooler."

Hmm, seems like you could have tapped a couple of plains and given yourself Glacial Plating when walking by the cooking area.

See, Magic CAN help you in real life.

Re:Uh huh... (1)

smbarbour (893880) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517311)

After the university cast Armageddon, he didn't have any lands to tap.

Re:Uh huh... (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517545)

The university found that out the hard way. The policy that was enforced when I was there was to automatically kick out anyone who had a GPA that's way below the safety zone, usually about 300 students every semester. A few years later, when it appear that ~3,000 students would be kicked out under the policy, that was too much money walking out the door and they changed it in a hurry. Armageddon, inded.

Re:Uh huh... (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 6 years ago | (#16518329)

Hmm, seems like you could have tapped a couple of plains and given yourself Glacial Plating when walking by the cooking area.

Called a sweatshirt. It kept my body temperature from the two extremes and protected my arms from getting the usual assortment metal and splatter burns.

Re:Uh huh... (2, Insightful)

Cahrin (1002520) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517369)

Whether you were playing MTG or out partying until dawn, the result would have been the same. Blaming the medium upon which you devote a lot of your time for failing out of university is a scape goat. As stated many times, the medium is irrelivant; you're either the kind of person who can balance both, or you end up working at a resturant.

Re:Uh huh... (1)

DarkFencer (260473) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517393)

You know - in most situations - when someone is kicked out of college, or loses their job, or something else for doing too much 'X' - they would have found something else to spend that time with instead. If not Magic, it would have been something else for MOST people (not saying your specific situation). Anything in excess is a problem (games, alcohol, drugs, television, etc.).

Excatly how *I* use COD2 (4, Funny)

csoto (220540) | more than 6 years ago | (#16516933)

After working in IT management, I like to come home and blast several hundred rounds into people. It helps me because I can use what I learn there IRL...

It's been said before... (4, Insightful)

shirizaki (994008) | more than 6 years ago | (#16516955)

WoW doesn't wreck lives, people wreck their own lives. If you have an addictive personality and can't set prorities, then you shouldn't play WoW. I know people who play MMO's all the time who lead productive lives. If you aren't one of those people, take responsibility for your own actions instead of blaming them on what you're using.

Re:It's been said before... (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#16517071)

Crack doesn't wreck lives, people wreck their own lives. If you have an addictive personality and can't set prorities, then you shouldn't do crack. I know people who do crack all the time who lead productive lives. If you aren't one of those people, take responsibility for your own actions instead of blaming them on what you're using.

Re:It's been said before... (1)

thc69 (98798) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517371)

I know people who do crack all the time who lead productive lives.
Outside of Hollywood?

Re:It's been said before... (1)

Bastard of Subhumani (827601) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517559)

I know people who do crack all the time who lead productive lives.
Outside of Hollywood?
Last time I checked, Madison Avenue [answers.com] was on the opposite coast. Don't try to tell me those dudes aren't taking something.

Re:It's been said before... (1)

rehtonAesoohC (954490) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517381)

Interesting that you equate WoW to "what people are using." Using implies abuse or addiction.

Agreement (3, Interesting)

mseeger (40923) | more than 6 years ago | (#16516975)

Hi,

i can much agree with the positive impression, but for different reasons. I have 50+ hour work life and i'm happily married. My goal in WoW is not to complete the T2 set ASAP (it is bound to happen anyway some day) or to learn management (better: herding of cats), but to recreate. It's a great tool (and just a tool) for that. No more, but no less...

Regards, Martin

Motto... (3, Funny)

CaseM (746707) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517033)

Our unofficial guild motto has always been RL > WOW, friends come first.

Sure, but their motto on "raid day" was "WTF N00B GET UR ASS ON UR MAIN WERE RAIDING!!!11"

Re:Motto... (1)

rehtonAesoohC (954490) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517357)

Hate to point this out, but if someone was on their alt when there was a raid about to take place, then the guild has a right to say something to the person... for all the guild knows, the person just didn't want to raid, even though they were needed. If their motto on raid day was "WTF NOOB GET ONLINE WERE RAIDING!!1!!1" then I could see your point.

The easiest way. . . (3, Funny)

AcidLacedPenguiN (835552) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517061)

. . . is to play warcraft 3 instead of world of warcraft. Or to buy a stairmaster and see/feel a difference when you level up. Not to mention when you live in a society where grinding on the stairmaster is guaranteed to increase your charisma dramatically.

Re:The easiest way. . . (3, Interesting)

SatanicPuppy (611928) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517255)

Meh. If you become fitness obsessed, your charisma drops again because you become an annoying bastard. I get tired of the fitness nazi's looking down on me because I don't obsess over every little aspect of my appearance/weight.

Everything is about priorities. If WoW is enjoyable, do it! But even enjoyable things should be done in moderation. It's possible to find a quality raiding guild that doesn't require you to run three nights a week...May take a little while, but that's the way it goes. Takes just as long to get in a hardcore raiding guild, with the whole interview/trial period bs.

Re:The easiest way. . . (3, Funny)

rehtonAesoohC (954490) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517305)

That's not true... Muscle size does not increase one's charisma. Your statement should have been something along the lines of:

"...where grinding on the stairmaster is guaranteed to dramatically increase your potential for having women approach you if you keep your mouth shut."

naysayer (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#16517117)

I see this as more of a "I'm not a loser!"/"I didn't waste my time!" reaction, and a defense written only for himself. It's obvious he's just offended by the public opinion which was stirred and strengthened that WoW players lack a strong social/outside life.

And it's true. You cannot have as strong of a social/outside life when you play a video game for 8 hours a day, unless you live on a planet that has 32 hour days.

If I didn't see it ruin so many people personally, I wouldn't feel so strongly about it. No one said it wuld automatically make you do bad in school. If you have little to no social life, you have plenty of room for your schoolwork and WoW.
He's simply in denial.

Masters in policy? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#16517121)

I gaurantee if you got a masters in something that isn't made up that you wouldn't have time for WoW, you would be too busy working hard. Please let me know what "difficult" university allowed you to play video games daily and still give you a degree.

MMOs lead to grinding, grinding leads to suffering (3, Interesting)

CharAznable (702598) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517205)

I hear WoW is a lot better than Evercrack in this respect, but a problem I find is that the things that are considered top achievements in WoW are not doable without insane amounts of mindless, repetitive activites. For instance, you want High Warlord or Grand Marshall, you have to PVP 14 hours a day for 6 months. The expansion is supposed to alleviate some of these issues, but I'd still say that you'll enjoy WoW a lot more if you don't feel the urge to top everybody else's achievements. There's a lot of people with no life out there, and if you want to top them, you'll have to give up your life too.

Re:MMOs lead to grinding, grinding leads to suffer (1)

Maxo-Texas (864189) | more than 6 years ago | (#16518039)

Wow started off easy and has gotten harder and more EQ like.

With each release EQ has become easier and more Wow like.

EQ was always about when you could log on more than about your skill (if you could log on at 3pm and get all the rare spawns/gear before the rest of the world got home, you win!). But the last vestages of skill probably left about 2 years ago. It had a serious increase in wimpiness/friendliness. The old EQ was *cruel* and *hard*. You screw up, you lose ALL your gear that took hundreds of hours to obtain. You *had* to stay up til 3am to CR your corpse out of Sebilous because if it rotted, you were screwed. It felt very intense- and when some stranger helped you- it mattered.

Today-- you die anywhere, you pay a little plat and you are fine again. No big.

Some of the raid encounters do require a little skill. Not sure grouping does. It's more about time spent grouping.

This just in... (1)

MadEE (784327) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517213)

Millions of people find they aren't addicted to things that a small percentage of other people have addictions to. Film at 11. I mean common the point of the addiction stories were never to necessarily to say everyone will become addicted to them and they should carry a surgeon general's warning or something. The point is that a small percentage of people have a problem with the game and it's something we have to learn how to recognize and help those people who need it. Ignoring the problem because the (likely) majority of the playing population doesn't have this problem solves nothing

I think the guy is right: however... (1)

xutopia (469129) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517243)

Saying that there is always two sides to every story is simplistic.  There are shades of gr[e|a]y in everything.

WoW makes has numerous things to make it an addictive game.  And the guy does express something important here.  He never beat a game in his life. For everyone else who usually finishes what they start the whole game is a time sink and certainly one with such a vague and moving forward objective that it hurts.

http://www.wowdetox.com/ helps a lot of people out.

This again? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#16517321)

STOP IT! STOP IT!

This really isn't news. (1)

Ash-Fox (726320) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517431)

This article gets a '!life' tag from me.

I've seen stupid things to complain about, fight against. But.. "WoW ruins lives!11!" "WoW doesn't ruin lives!" articles.. come on. Too much of anything obviously has repercussions.

I fear the upcoming dupe.

Oh. Well that's okay then. (1)

singingjim (957822) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517485)

Oooh, so you're the one guy who uses the game for educational purposes. Oh wait, that's right, it's just another rationalization for checking out of reality. Hey, if it works for you that's great.

Read the in-game tips! (2, Informative)

rehtonAesoohC (954490) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517495)

There is an option to turn on tips for loading screens, and one of those tips says:

"Remember to do all things in moderation. (Including World of Warcraft!)"

This isn't as simple as "self control" (5, Insightful)

26reverse (305980) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517651)

WoW presents a very specific problem, beyond the typical problems of "self control" and "moderation". If it were that simple, then yes, turn off the computer and do something else. However, the ability to level quickly is both blessing and curse - and that's (what I see as) the core issue.

First, WoW is beautiful. Yes, it's cartoonish, but it's got character and depth. I, for one, just like seeing new things, exploring new places. There comes a point within WoW that you can't do anything new unless you get to the end game content. All of which requires heavy guild involvement... to the point mentioned in the first article. Strat can be beautiful, and I regret never seeing Naxx (and only once getting into AQ). But unless I was willing to devote myself heart and soul to a guild - I was relegated to pick-up groups for the "lesser" instances... and forget ever seeing AQ40 or Molten Core. Once you reach these points, starting over isn't an option. You've seen it, you've done it. And no matter how you've convinced yourself that you're not grinding levels in Loch Modan, starting over only offers an extreme amount of drudgery. (Switching from Alliance to Horde only delays the inevitable)

Second, WoW is just to easy to level up. Too many times you hear about people getting to 60 without a clue of what to do next. You get this consistent endorphin rush every time you "ding". And that's great. It helps keep you moving forward through some of the dull spots (think levels 37-40). But once you've hit 60 you've invested a huge amount of time in a character... whether that's hours upon hours a day for a couple months, or a relaxed pace over a year. It feels like you're abandoning your alter ego to just quit playing. You want to push forward, but you can't. Hence, you've got to run after epic loot and instances.

And Third... friends. I've made a lot of friends in-game. We've been through a lot together (all of us utterly refusing to ever step foot in Gnomeregan again). And many of them (especially the married couples that both play) want to continue forward. Once again, you're relegated to the outside... shoved off unless you want to grind for Cenarion rep in Silithus.

All three of these led to my WoW burnout. I was bumped from my "elite" guild because I didn't want to spend 20 hours a week on top of job and social life. Getting put back in the "feeder" guild, while it sounds fine, just felt awful. My friends had all moved on, and I was shoved aside and forgotten (much like the original article). Eventually, I've found another server (too many familiar faces on the old one) and a nice, casual guild. But then again... the first guild started out nice and casual as well... /sigh

It's the gamers fault. (3, Insightful)

MaWeiTao (908546) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517723)

Absolutely MMOs are designed to be addictive. That's the whole point of subscription based games, to draw in players and keep them interested in the game. What MMO player doesn't look forward to hitting that next level, acquiring new gear, or exploring some new region? Character building certainly is an alluring gameplay element. I feel the lure whenever I try a MMO.

That said, however, I certainly don't think Blizzard or any other developer is responsible for anyone who gets addictive. These companies want players subscribed for a couple of years, but I doubt it's anyone's intention that they have players addicted to these games like they were drugs.

It's easy for someone to say they can stop playing whenever they want. There are also people who think playing games 40 hours a week is casual gaming. The point is that for someone who has become truly addicted they've lost all self-control. They can't stop. They feel agitated when they're not playing; the game is constantly on their mind. What they need is help, in one form or another.

Regardless of the nature of the addiction, it ultimately is that player's fault. They made the decision to install the game and start playing. The fact that they lost themselves to the game is ultimately their own fault.

My concern is that there are lawyers out there already licking their chops. It's only a matter of time before we start seeing lawsuits against these developers.

Much like the lawsuits against the tobacco companies. In at least the past 20 years we've known smoking is bad. Even if these people didn't know when they started, they must have learned since then. Why didn't they find a way to stop? The company may have been questionable to selling such a product, but ultimately it's the consumer's fault. I mean, using the rationale for suing those companies we might as well sue all automakers for enabling us to put ourselves in harm's way.

The question here isn't whether games like WoW are addictive, because they clearly are. It's whether people are going to be mature and responsible enough to acknowledge their own fault in all this. Unfortunately, as history has shown in this culture of the victim, too many people are going blame everyone but themselves.

And just wait until gaming reaches a point where it's photo-realistic, approaching something like the realism of the holodeck. We haven't seen anything yet.

Re:It's the gamers fault. (1)

1sockchuck (826398) | more than 6 years ago | (#16518287)

Yes, lawsuits are inevitable. I don't feel any sympathy for those who become consumed by their decision to play WoW instead of spending time in other pursuits. But the tobacco analogy extends to MMos in that the amount of science that goes into reinforcing the addictive behaviors plays poorly in front of a jury. Blizzard's really good at immersive environments and the strategies that keep you immersed. We may not know exactly how they do it, but when the process is uncovered in court and laid out for all to see ... well, Jack Thompson (or the MMO equivalent of his FPS ambulance chaser routine) will know make some mileage out it.

The effort of building and running an eq guild (1)

Maxo-Texas (864189) | more than 6 years ago | (#16517985)

Taught me a lot really fast.

It was like life at triple speed.

I learned how to recognize users a lot better.

I learned a lot about logistics.

I learned things that help me in my daily job as a project lead.

I was a natural leader before- but doing the guild bit was trial by fire.

These days.. I play about 6 hours a week tho. It's a game and I have RL stuff that is fun to do. It was a glorious period from 1999 to 2001 tho.

Articlesaboutwowruininglivesruinlives.slashdot.org (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#16518013)

With the number of articles about wow ruining/not ruining lives, we will probably soon start seeing articles about articles about wow ruining lives ruining lives. Can we section these into a new /. section called "wowruinslives.slashdot.org" so that we can try and avoid them and therefore not ruin our lives? After all, I'm an impressionable retard who can't discern whether or not I should go to work every day, or sit around playing video games and get evicted for the horrible stench emitting from my apartment since my guild leader didnt give me permission to go to the bathroom. I don't think its fair to take advantage of my fragile state of mind by putting up all these articles about wow ruining lives.

Ah hah! (1)

x-vere (956928) | more than 6 years ago | (#16518033)

So, a highly educated individual embraced WoW as an avenue to further his intellectual goals. Nice. Now ask the 99.999999991% of the folks playing this game why they play WoW. It's for the raids man!

Guns don't have to kill people (1)

Sigg3.net (886486) | more than 6 years ago | (#16518085)

Warcraft Doesn't Have to Wreck Lives and guns don't have to kill people. It all depends in whose hands they are.

I can even play Solitaire for hours, so it's a question of self-control.
Or how much fantasy money you're willing to lose.
(How real men play solitaire? Draw Three, Las Vegas Style, Cumulative Score)

Be moderate in everything, including moderation. (1)

Typingsux (65623) | more than 6 years ago | (#16518115)

HORACE PORTER

American general and diplomat

(1837 - 1921)

How did a guy that died 85 years ago know about WoW?

What a difficult concept.

I call BS! (1)

guysmilee (720583) | more than 6 years ago | (#16518195)

Listen dude ! What your saying isn't convincing us! And it's especially not gonna convince your girlfriend ... see you in the "singles guild" ...

Warcraft doesn't wreck lives. Players wreck lives (1)

Gruneun (261463) | more than 6 years ago | (#16518209)

The same people that can't exercise self-control with gambling, alcohol, prescription drugs, sex, smoking, illegal drugs, internet usage, eating, or one of a whole host of other problems, can just as easily become addicted to video games.

Moderation (1)

Wiarumas (919682) | more than 6 years ago | (#16518223)

What don't people understand about moderation? If you play too much World of Warcraft, your life will be lost. Same goes if you watch too much TV, movies, Xbox, parties, etc. If you can handle it, you can handle it. I played World of Warcraft the last 2 summers and quit everytime I go back to school. I'm far from addicted. Why? I have no idea... maybe its my grasp on reality?

When do you think? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#16518257)

Will it eventually be suitable to list a guild leadership position in a resume?

(of course, if anyone uses that as resume filler they'll have trouble getting most jobs)

iedick (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#16518263)

usersc', BigAzz, [goat.cx]

it seems MMO's are only a problem (2, Insightful)

dieth (951868) | more than 6 years ago | (#16518417)

When the general population has greater access to high end 3d cards.
All of this has already happened w/ EverCrack, more than 4 years ago
We knew of all the problems back then, no one cared

EverCrack Addiction: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/28/earlysho w/living/caught/main510302.shtml [cbsnews.com]

http://pc.ign.com/articles/356/356673p1.html [ign.com]

Compassion? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 6 years ago | (#16518439)

I thought this was about WoW, not Ultima.
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