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Hot Coffee's Effects On The GTA Mod Scene

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the scalding dept.


simoniker writes "Over a year after the infamous 'Hot Coffee' incident, author and game designer Brenda Brathwaite explores the tragic aftermath on the GTA mod community — including interviews with 'Hot Coffee' creator PatrickW, the ESRB's Patricia Vance, and more." From the article: "The second version of San Andreas was made 'much more mod-resistant' according to Patrick, and among members of the community, there is doubt that future versions will be moddable at all. 'This has already made good people leave the scene,' Patrick adds. Among those that remain, there exists a certain amount of caution. 'Some innocent modding stuff isn't getting released,' says Patrick, 'because modders are afraid it might cause another controversy.'"

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Dumbest line ever (1)

Soporific (595477) | more than 7 years ago | (#16614148)

'Some innocent modding stuff isn't getting released,' says Patrick, 'because modders are afraid it might cause another controversy.'

I'm sure a modder would hate to cause controversy. That wouldn't get them noticed at all....



Re:Dumbest line ever (1)

gt_mattex (1016103) | more than 7 years ago | (#16614218)

'mod resistant' != 'mod proof'

There is no 'mod proof'. If modrs wanted to mod then it would happen.

Re:Dumbest line ever (2, Funny)

CrazyJim1 (809850) | more than 7 years ago | (#16614284)

There is no 'mod proof'. If modrs wanted to mod then it would happen.

What goes for video games goes for Slashdot

Re:Dumbest line ever (1, Informative)

LKM (227954) | more than 7 years ago | (#16620240)

There is no 'mod proof'. If modrs wanted to mod then it would happen.

You are wrong. This comment right here is mod-proof. It can't be modded. Simply can not be done. Try to mod it up, I dare you! In fact, I double-dare you!

Re:Dumbest line ever (1)

Jesterboy (106813) | more than 7 years ago | (#16614608)

This statement really is out there. Modders afraid of controversy? I see it entirely the opposite way, like a modder somewhere going "zOMG, GTA has nekkid skinz! i should pwn teh g4m3 by making all m0delz nekkid, all teh t1m3!" or something to that effect.

I don't personally have the PC version of San Andreas, so I'm oblivious to whether or not there actually is a mod like that. I would imagine if there isn't one yet, it's already in development.

Nude Raider... (1)

Poltras (680608) | more than 7 years ago | (#16614888)

Tomb Raider's mods have been on the market long enough to prove your point :)

Re:Dumbest line ever (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16614852)

Controversy for the corporation is bad for the modder because the controversy makes the corporation wonder if the modder community which provides a lot of job satisfaction and spawns creative new ideas is actually worth more than the lawsuits from Jack T. and his ravening wolves.

Modders = Intangible; Jack = Millions of Dollars.

Any modder who knows where they are on the food chain will try to ensure that their mod doesn't get its host product in hot water. What good does it do you to gain a sex scene but lose access to the entire game? (And as Hot Coffee demonstrated, even the most trite of little hacks -- after all, with so much violence and violent sex, what's a little more sex other than a David Lynch movie? -- can cause a lot of rabbling amoung the strangely naive peasantry. Which is why modders are erring on the side of caution.)

Re:Dumbest line ever (1)

illspirit (957034) | more than 7 years ago | (#16616606)

And I suppose you wouldn't mind one bit if two state Attorneys General, a handful of local district attorneys, and a number of shareholders nearly filed civil and criminal suits against you? Or nearly losing your job due to all the media swarming about? Yea, that kind of attention sure is fun...

Media Hype alert! (3, Insightful)

miasmic (669645) | more than 7 years ago | (#16614174)

"'Some innocent modding stuff isn't getting released,' says Patrick, 'because modders are afraid it might cause another controversy.'"

Yeah and Elvis Presley lives at the bottom of my yard with the fairies. Since when have individuals on the internet been afraid of controversy? Sounds like a load of horsecrap to me. If they really are afraid of controversy, they must have a hugely inflated sense of self importance. Like anyone gives two craps if someone makes a mod in his bedroom, what are they worried about, their carefully crafted professional reputation on the modding scene? The cops coming round to arrest them? Give me a break.

Re:Media Hype alert! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16620426)

Maybe they'd rather not get a game company they like sued?

think of the childre... i mean news sites (1)

teh_chrizzle (963897) | more than 7 years ago | (#16614178)

all the news websites that ran like a hojillion articles about it... from gamespot all the way up to CNN. i am so freaking tired of the words "hot coffee" that even if the mod cured cancer and ran on linix i still wouldn't care.

Re:think of the childre... i mean news sites (1)

atomic-penguin (100835) | more than 7 years ago | (#16618814)

It runs on linux just fine, thanks to winex/cedega.

Re:think of the childre... i mean news sites (1)

teh_chrizzle (963897) | more than 7 years ago | (#16641053)

yeah... still don't care :-)

The innocent pay for the wrongdoings of others (3, Informative)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 7 years ago | (#16614186)

Hot coffee summary: the sex scenes were in the original game, but not accessible without hacking. Take2 could have simply clarified that. Hey, it's not like GTA is an all-ages game in the first place. Instead, they blamed modders, and turned a minor issue into a big mess.

God ! (2, Insightful)

frost22 (115958) | more than 7 years ago | (#16614648)

what are you ? all trolls ?

Take2 was a victim. The modders were victim. But the super trolls around here blame victims only, apparently.

Well trolls, I tell you what. Blame the fucking conservatives and bigots who produced that fucking "outcry". The fanatical save the children hypocrites. The right wing noise machines. All those braindead voters who vote brainfree teflon critters into congreß, or those fucktards who actually let preachers near politics, and all the other stupidos.

But godamned stop blaming the victims.

Sex is ok and a little sex game doesn't hurt the GTA target group. Fucking full stop! Morons who think sex is evil and try to force their sicko warped world view upon us belong into jails or asylums for the mad, not into congress and city halls! And doofus fucking stupid voter who vote the cretins into office should hide their heads in shame instead of trolling slashdot.

My God, when will this country wake up !

And to the fucking conservative fascists who will try to rate this as flamebait or overrated, you are sick little control freaks. This a hearttfelt political opinion about a very political topic affecting us all, so go and shove your worthless little plays.

Re:God ! (4, Informative)

illspirit (957034) | more than 7 years ago | (#16616468)

The right wing noise machines? Conservative fascists? Erm, hello, like 90% of the politicans lined up with laws and threats of prosecution against us are left wing "liberals." Last I checked, Hillary Clinton, Joe Lieberman, Evan Bayh, Leland Yee, Rod Blagojevich, Kathleen Blanco, Roy Burrell, Jennifer Granholm, Phil Kellam, Rocky Delgadillo, Julia Boseman, Eliott Spitzer, and countless others were all Democrats. Click around on the legislation tracker map at Game Politcs [] , and look how many Ds pop up behind people's names, and then tell me again how this is all the fault of conservative "cretins." Or if you're too lazy to look, here's a little secret: Neither the Republicans or Democrats give a damn about your rights.

Re:God ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16616692)

I don't know any liberals who consider Democrats 'liberal'. At best they're Conservative Lite.

Re:God ! (1)

illspirit (957034) | more than 7 years ago | (#16617538)

I don't know any liberals who consider Democrats 'liberal'. At best they're Conservative Lite.
This is true. But there aren't many real conservatives who think the big-government goons running the GOP these days are very conservative either. Just as the Karl Rove-types have coopted "conservative," the DNC has hijacked the word "liberal" for themselves, and turned it into a newspeak shadow of its formar self. Hence why I used it in quotation marks.

Re:God ! (1)

mmalove (919245) | more than 7 years ago | (#16642095)

Sponsor(s): Senator Henry Marsh III (D)

Requires M-rated games to have a label at least 3 inches long with at least 12-point font; if not, M-rated games can't be publicly displayed.

One of the "90% left wing liberals" from the article above. Sure, it starts at 12 point font, then 14, then next thing you know there's a guy holding an 8 foot sign with a big M on it.

And no, I didn't cherry pick this. It was the first democrat I found.

Re:God ! (1)

westlake (615356) | more than 7 years ago | (#16621546)

Take2 was a victim.

Take Two and Rockstar were victims of nothing more than their own inbred conceit.

"Kill the Haitians." That the gangster game genre is not greatly loved or trusted outside the hardcore gaming community comes as a surprise only to the gamer himself.

fucking stupidos doofus cretins

The speech and language of a pre-adolescent Rush Limbaugh does not make the best case for Grand Theft Auto.

whole issue is stupid (1)

MikeFM (12491) | more than 7 years ago | (#16619618)

The whole Hot Coffee thing was stupid any way. First, GTA is obviously a game that parents shouldn't give to young children - it's rated M for 17 and older right on the damn box. Then to push up that rating with mods like Hot Coffee doesn't happen by accident - you have to search out, download, and install the mods. You might as well blame Mozilla when your kid finds Dads porn bookmarks and visits some sites they shouldn't.

I for one think GTA should have an XXX version created and released by Take2 that includes much more sex and violence. I don't care if I have to special order it - I'd still buy a copy. I'm sure others would too. Maybe something to try for the PS3? Take advantage of those big disks. I want to be able to break the door down and go into every building in the whole city.

Gasp! I am Shocked! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16614322)

The "think of the children" crowd's only actual impact on the world is frivolous lawsuits and pointless censorship?

Gee, color me surprised.

Answer to the question... (1)

Jack9 (11421) | more than 7 years ago | (#16614422)


Lost Sales (1)

Buddy_DoQ (922706) | more than 7 years ago | (#16614652)

I never had much interest in GTA:SA (not a fan of the 90's gang land genre), but a fellow member of the Machinima community had created a movie studio mod for it (Discussion here [] ) and I really, really, wanted to check it out.

Unfortunately I didn't catch wind of this project until after the Hot Coffee mess, and the retailers had already re-stocked with the "fixed" copy of the game. Needless to say I was no longer motivated to spend my money.

The only one you can blame here is R* for not disclosing all the naughty 'bits' (pun intended) when up for ERSB review. The media response was predictable: childish, immature, and embarrassing when overseas. You know, the usual for us Americans.

Anyway, modders are essential for PC games, they keep the game content fresh, (thus keeping the game on store shelves longer) and players get to play game developer and train for that line of work. (Not to mention all the unique new game play modes and art style innovations) To shun modders is the same as shunning your developers. Bad move not matter how you look at it.

Re:Lost Sales (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16621560)

First off, I never saw the Mod before the linked article. There is a LOT worst on public TV before 9PM. This was clearly overplayed by interest groups. Just like the "NippleGate" - Please someone think of the children.

Parent post is titled "Lost Sales" yet never says the words. R* lost millions in this adventure, from lost sales of this game, cost to re-issues and distribute the patch version.
But also lost revenue as a corporate entity because of the hit on the reputation. You know how conservatives are; hit you until you're on your knees, seeing it works, they continue until you eat dirt. Then if they need an example they will continue until you're out of business.

The article quotes: "The idea that they'd even shut us out like that, plus the fact they don't talk to anyone anymore, not even to give us promotional screenshots for fansites, has left behind a mixture of resentment and apathy"

Well DUH ... it's not your cool project manager dreaming of all the great features that was put in charge of this PR fiasco. It was some MBA guys who barely play at all totally clueless of the important role Modders can play in the long life of a game. There best title was fiercely under attack, risking to never see another release (without a change of name). They acted accordingly.

Head rolled I am sure, and everyone under suddenly stops moving. Just keep to yourself, do only what is asked from you and wait for the storm to pass.

IMHO the primary responsible IS R*. To let something like that out was not too clever. I myself leave bad code in some releases, code is disabled but could easily be unlock by a hack. Then again it does not display sexual content, and is not used by millions of minors.

In second place I blame the media who clearly was smelling the blood and over exposed this story.

Re:Lost Sales (1)

mmalove (919245) | more than 7 years ago | (#16642531)

"The only one you can blame here is R* for not disclosing all the naughty 'bits' (pun intended) when up for ERSB review"

Rockstar during the ERSB review process:
"Oh, and there's one scene where the main character fucks another character. Except that we took that out."

In the mind of Rockstars project manager, that scene didn't exist in the game anymore. It was an idea they threw around, then ultimately scrapped as going too far over the top. I'm not saying they shouldn't have been more careful about where that code ended up, but I really don't think they were out to try and "sneak sex by the grown ups".

Does kind of suck though - because I know the scandal has hurt the modding community, and now everytime someone hears about a mod this is on their minds.

In other news... (2, Funny)

Rob T Firefly (844560) | more than 7 years ago | (#16614746)

...that time you were embarassed when friends/family/your date saw the pr0n jpeg you used as desktop wallpaper, has caused a lot of good people to leave the pr0n business.

OH NO (0, Troll)

RegalBegal (742288) | more than 7 years ago | (#16614904)

I feel so bad. Looks like a small niche group of people doing something pointless will have to find somewhere else to spend their valuable time. *tear*

Re:OH NO (1)

The Lone Man (1017800) | more than 7 years ago | (#16618460)

Doing something pointless? Your incompetence astounds me.

From someone who made some popular Morrowind mods (2, Interesting)

palladiate (1018086) | more than 7 years ago | (#16615486)

Despite the above posts that seem to be completely clueless about the modding communities, yes, this and the Oblivion kerfluffle have indeed killed an awful lot of interest in modding. 6 weeks after Morrowind's release, we had skins that replicated the toplessness you found in Arena and Daggerfall. Was it a big deal? Nope. Just about everyone who had the game then remembered playing the first two.

Now? If you patch Oblivion, you can't modify models or skins without SERIOUS work because of, well, mostly because of Jack Thompson and his problems with sexuality, nudity, and a spot of violence.

It isn't so much a fear of asshats like him on the boards and in chat, or the difficulty of hacking the new patches, but a fear of killing the game that we like. Is it too racy? Is it too violent? Do we mention Jack Thompson without his permission?

Not all of us are up for a legal battle, or the notoriety of destroying a very awesome game and community. And although I loved playing game developer in Morrowind, I'll just have to stick to modding X3 or something that has ZERO possibility of offending someone...

Re:From someone who made some popular Morrowind mo (1)

Malestyr (824045) | more than 7 years ago | (#16620020)


I got an oblivion nude mod - took about 15 seconds to install. Not sure if it takes serious work to make, but it sure as hell is easy to install.
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