Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Venezuelan Interest In U.S. Voting Software

kdawson posted more than 7 years ago | from the just-what-we-needed dept.

337

A number of readers wrote in about a U.S. federal investigation into the Venezulean ownership of Sequoia Voting Systems, which makes voting machines used in 17 states and the District of Columbia. The Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States wonders whether the anti-U.S. government of Hugo Chávez could be trying to influence the U.S. midterm elections. From the article: "Government officials familiar with the Smartmatic inquiry said they doubted that even if the Chávez government was some kind of secret partner in the company, it would try to influence elections in the United States. But some of them speculated that the purchase of Sequoia could help Smartmatic sell its products in Latin America and other developing countries, where safeguards against fraud are weaker."

cancel ×

337 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Ridiculous (4, Funny)

Joey7F (307495) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634318)

I want people trying to influence this election unfairly to be Americans

Re:Ridiculous (1)

l2718 (514756) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634470)

I want people trying to influence this election unfairly to be Americans

Unfortunately, Diebold disagrees with you. They prefer the run this election to the tune of "may the best cracker win". I mean, the US government has such an world-reaching influence that it makes sense to have a global election process, right? That's probably why they tabulate election results on unsecured Windows PCs and why the sell voting machines with less integrity and security than an XBox.

Re:Ridiculous (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16634482)

Like I always say, if it's good enough for Venezuela, it's good enough for us.

Re:Ridiculous (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16634808)

I want people trying to influence this election unfairly to be Americans

Don't worry, my friend! Whether you're interested in hacked voting machines [truthout.org] or hackable paper ballot scanners [techdirt.com] , the company that promised to deliver the 2004 election to Bush [earthlink.net] will see you through the next Republican landslide election!

Re:Ridiculous (2, Interesting)

senatorpjt (709879) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635218)

Yeah, it's strange that once one of the voting-machine companies might be controlled by a leftist, suddenly they can't be trusted.

Re:Ridiculous (0, Offtopic)

ryguy (59982) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635308)

What are you talking about??? People on the left have blamed the machines for many losses.

Re:Ridiculous (2, Informative)

dangitman (862676) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635426)

He's talking about the Republicans suddenly getting interested in voting fraud when leftists might be involved in the machines (Venezuela), but ignoring the problem when their own right-wing stooges are involved (Diebold). You may want to try reading comprehension before you get outraged.

Re:Ridiculous (1)

glesga_kiss (596639) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634824)

Personally, I find it hilarious and ironic. The USA played a part [guardian.co.uk] in the attempted Venezulean coup in 2002. The documentary The Revolution Will Not Be Televised [imdb.com] covers it rather well and is well worth a viewing.

Then we have regime change in Iraq! Frankly, I find the paranoid fear that another country is attempting influence US elections quite worrysome. It's almost like the US has developed some sort of collective paranoid psychosis.

Oh fucking please (3, Insightful)

theolein (316044) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634332)

Chavez might be a populist loudmouth fucker, but he is pretty open about what he wants and what his intentions are, not like the current crop of corrupt, deceiptful pigs running the USA, who resort to vague accusations like this one in times of elections because they finally realised that they fucked up across the board and that people really hate them for it.

Re:Oh fucking please (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16634448)

Bullshit! If you can read Spanish, I suggest you read his statements about what is going on in his country. Read how he has increased security (increased murders to 10,000 per year in a country of 25 million), provided money and hospitals for the poor (while increasing the poverty rate even while reaping record oil profits), improved the economy (which has >10% inflation and small growth even while reaping record oil profits), and has increased personal freedom (by introducing communist style price controls and jailing reporters). Chavez is as much of a liar as his hero Fidel Castro who promised democratic elections in 1958 (only to rescind his offer by saying that the people had already chosen him--apparently for life).

Re:Oh fucking please (2, Funny)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634464)

Exactly.

Let's investigate the only E-Vote vendor who is NOT under control of our own thugs.

Re:Oh fucking please (4, Interesting)

Sique (173459) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634532)

But if anything, Hugo Chavez would actually be interested in keeping the current administration in power. It keeps the oil prices high (good for Hugo Chavez), it is so incompetent, that any uprising it tries to initiate against Hugo Chavez is easily defeated (the last one was gone after 48 hrs), and it gives him enough populist argumentation to use any means to stay in power and also suppress any other uprising.

I also think that al-Qaida would vote G.W.Bush: Never ever have the recruiting possibilities have be better, never ever have the arguments of al-Qaida being existant better. Never ever have the means and possibilities of getting money from the Arab world being better due to high income on oil and an general feeling of being waged an undeclared war against from the U.S..

Never ever have allies of the U.S. being more alienated from the U.S., making "divide et impera" the most easiest ever. Never ever was the danger of the own population being in favor of U.S. so minimal. The U.S. was actually managing to get the same people of Iran, who were burning candles on the streets in condolence to the victims of 9/11 and thus expressing their sympathy for the U.S., now being nearly unified against the same U.S..

If I was the U.S. administration, I would recommend to hush up any possible ties between Sequoia voting machines and Venezuela.

Re:Oh fucking please (2, Insightful)

h4rm0ny (722443) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634668)


You've ignored the possibility that Chavez actually despises the actions of the Bush regime and genuinely would like to see a better US foreign policy.

Not everyone is solely interested in power.

Re:Oh fucking please (1)

krell (896769) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634748)

"You've ignored the possibility that Chavez actually despises the actions of the Bush regime and genuinely would like to see a better US foreign policy."

Actually, he wants to "bury the US". I saw him say this in a live speech. What was really surprising was that he neglected to bang on the podium with his shoe while saying it.

Re:Oh fucking please (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16634938)

Well the US has tried to have him assassinated several time and continues to fund undemocratic coups against him. I personally think Chavez has every reason to have the US, and you pushed him there.

As for this story I can only quote the international election monitors after the US 2004 election: "The election went well with few irregularities, almost as few as in the recent election in Venezuela"

Re:Oh fucking please (2, Funny)

Kuciwalker (891651) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634816)

You've ignored the possibility that Chavez actually despises the actions of the Bush regime and genuinely would like to see a better US foreign policy.

Not everyone is solely interested in power. Yes, I would ignore that possibility.

Re:Oh fucking please (1)

vishbar (862440) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635222)

Not everyone is solely interested in power.

A ridiculous statement made even more ridiculous when applied to Hugo Chavez. Read up a little on the guy. He likes his power.

What? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16634336)

..where safeguards against fraud are weaker."

Do they run open source software or something?

Hmm (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16634364)

"where safeguards against fraud are weaker"

Is that supposed to be a joke?

Only in America (5, Insightful)

phleb3 (954280) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634368)

I think that the real problem is that Venezuela is in the doghouse of Bush and Company. Diebold which is held by a right wing company is not subjected to this scrutiny.

Re: Only in America (2, Informative)

Black Parrot (19622) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634450)

> Diebold which is held by a right wing company is not subjected to this scrutiny.

Our country has a long history of the FBI keeping an eye on people for no reason other than liberal views, while jumping in bed with the most extreme sort of right-wingers in South America.

Re:Only in America (1)

jefu (53450) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634610)

My first thought was exactly this - investigate machines made by that leftist radical country Venezuela, but don't even think about critizing those made by Diebold.

My second thought was way more cynical - could this be a pre-election manoeuvre designed to set the stage for investigating/recount/tossing out votes on suspect machines? Being sure, of course, to focus on those machines that voted Democrat. (OK, so the machines don't themselves vote. Or do they? Since we often can't see the the code or even verify the hardware, it is quite possible that the machines do themselves vote.)

Re:Only in America (0, Flamebait)

The Living Fractal (162153) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634658)

From Wikipedia:

"Ohio State Senator Jeff Jacobson, Republican, asked Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell in July, 2003 to disqualify Diebold's bid to supply voting machines for the state, after security problems were discovered in its software..."

This by a Republican.

Check your facts before you post. There are numerous other instances where Diebold machines have been subject to scrutiny.

But I figure you just wanted to find some reason to support your own political agenda. Not surprising. Carry on.

TLF

Re:Only in America (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16634804)

FromWikipedia [wikipedia.org] :

"Ohio State Senator Jeff Jacobson asked Blackwell in July 2003 to disqualify Diebold Election Systems' bid to supply voting machines for the state, after security problems were discovered in its software, but was refused."

Fixed again... (keep in mind Ken is also a Republican...)

There's always the oddballs who believe in the process. They'll be the first against the wall when the revolution is supressed.

Re:Only in America (0, Troll)

JourneyExpertApe (906162) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634766)

Care to back up your assertion that Diebold is "held by a right-wing company"? I didn't think so.

Chavez isn't a saint, but Bush sure is the devil.. (4, Informative)

lixee (863589) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634372)

Before you start bashing Chavez, please take the time to watch "The revolution will not be televised". It's an award winning documentary by an Irish crew who happened to be in Caracas when the coup against Chavez happened back in 2002.

Knowledge is the main weapon in this day and age!

Please... (1)

The Living Fractal (162153) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634468)

What the fuck is the point of calling Bush the Devil? First of all, one of the strongest ideas in the US constitution is the separation of church and state. It is fucking CENTRAL. So why do people insist on tying it back in? I mean, if you can't handle living in a country where the government fundamentally keeps its distance from religion (for damned good reasons) then just, please, leave.

Bush is not the Devil, even if the Devil were to exist other than as an idea.

Bush is just a stupid politician who panders to specialist interest groups and ignores the larger morally sound issues behind the gripes his country brings to him. People seem to center their hatred of Bush on the war in Iraq. Was it a mistake goin to Iraq? In retrospect, probably yes. But hindsight is 20/20.

So he made a mistake. And now he's making another mistake by not owning up to it and getting us the hell out of there.

But, please, at least call him what he is and stop throwing around religious ideas when it has nothing to do with the truth: he's incompetent to lead, not inherently evil.

TLF

Re:Please... (1)

arcite (661011) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634540)

You're right he isn't inherently evil...he is worse! Bush thinks he is doing his gods bidding!

Re:Please... (1)

The Living Fractal (162153) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634578)

Here let me fix that comment for you:

You're right he isn't inherently evil...he is worse! Any religious man or woman thinks he or she is doing his or her gods bidding!

Re:Please... (1)

Guuge (719028) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634612)

I do miss the concept of humility in religion. These days it seems that every churchgoer is The Messiah and is eager to tell you exactly how to fix all the problems you didn't know you had.

Re:Please... (1)

The Living Fractal (162153) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634678)

Yes it seems there's a shortage of 'bakers' in the world...humble pie is rarely on the human political menu these days.

TLF

Re:Please... (1, Offtopic)

udderly (890305) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635158)

These days it seems that every churchgoer is The Messiah and is eager to tell you exactly how to fix all the problems you didn't know you had.

Churchgoing people (if by churchgoing, you mean Christian) by definition cannot logically believe that they are the Messiah. If they do, by definition, they are not Christians.

As far as telling you "how to fix all the problems you didn't know you had," what exactly are you talking about? If they're trying to tell you about Christian beliefs--like salvation--that would benefit you if they were true, how could you hold that against them. They might be wrong, but at least they cared enough about you to tell you. I would assume the same is true about any prostyletizing religion.

Now if they're just trying to beat you down with what they view as your sinfulness, that's a different matter all together. But I guess that if your world-view or behavior threatens their beliefs, they weren't really secure in their faith and are probably compensating.

Re:Please... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16635090)

Any religious man or woman thinks he or she is doing his or her gods [sic] bidding!

I like bashing Bush as much as the next person, but don't refer to him as a he/she.

Please...The Blame Game. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16634682)

But of course God doesn't exist. So that means that Bush is doing evolution's bidding.

Re:Please... (1)

ronanbear (924575) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634670)

Bush sponsored a coup against Chavez. It was a stupid thing to do. What was the point of the coup? They were just pissed off at him were were trying to intimidate his neighbours.

Chavez gets to call Bush anything he wants when addressing the UN general assembly. Its a small price you have to pay for sponsoring a coup against a democratic government. Many feel that Bush should be punished properly.

Re:Please... (1)

krell (896769) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634834)

"Chavez gets to call Bush anything he wants when addressing the UN general assembly. Its a small price you have to pay for sponsoring a coup against a democratic government."

Chavez, as a dictator, has nothing to do with "democratic government". There's certainly nothing like democracy in Venezuela under Chavez, where it is now an explicit crime [washingtonpost.com] criticize the dictator.

Re:Please... (1)

ckotso (121347) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635246)

Sure. While Guantanamo bay is full of people pressed with specific and established charges.

Re:Please... (1)

senatorpjt (709879) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635298)

I'd like to see the media in the US start calling for the violent overthrow of the government, which is what happened.

Re:Please... (1)

rthille (8526) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634676)

Oddly enough, Bush seems to want to tie Church and State back together, with his 'faith based initiatives', his Justice Department giving an amicus brief in support of displays of the 10 commandments in courthouses ( http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&si d=aVq7CjVw_3Zc&refer=us [bloomberg.com] ), etc. So, given the religious overtones of Bush and his supporters, I can understand why people use the same tones to attack him.

Re:Please... (1)

The Living Fractal (162153) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634724)

Bush is a religious man. It is hardly a surprise to me that he would attempt to bring church and state together. However, it is my deepest hope that he does not succeed.

One of the main reasons I do not like it when people call Bush the Devil is that is does not convey any description of the negativity within the statement. It is a blanket statement without any depth. I prefer more qualitative statements involving reasonable criticisms or complaints than pie-in-the-sky religious labels that get nobody anywhere useful.

Re:Please... (1)

shystershep (643874) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635264)

Bush is like Hitler!

Re:Please... (1)

h4rm0ny (722443) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634738)


There is the matter of lying to the World in his efforts to start the war in the first place. Even if one is magnanimous enough to say it was a genuine mistake to invade, rather than pointing at the huge ulterior motives for it, the action of deceit can hardly be called one. It was deliberate and unconscienable.

Re:Please... (1)

The Living Fractal (162153) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634762)

I am not arguing against anything but the stupidity of using religious labels to define someone based on their mistakes.

That is all.

Thank you.

TLF

Re:Please... (1)

pubjames (468013) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634860)

I mean, if you can't handle living in a country where the government fundamentally keeps its distance from religion

Which country are you referring to? Because it sure isn't the USA...

Re:Please... (1)

kwark (512736) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635314)

Some non religious definitions of devil according to webster:
3 a : an extremely wicked person : FIEND b archaic : a great evil
4 : a person of notable energy, recklessness, and dashing spirit; also : one who is mischievous

The word devil is commonly used like above, it is you who, for some reason, makes a link between the world devil to a persona commonly called The Devil in various religions.

And if you think that western governments, who officially have religion and politcis seperated, are free from strong religious influences: guess again. eg the only arguments against gay mariage I heard is always linked to the bible. And an other example are the laws for special interests schools, somehow christian schools are no problem, but try run an islamic school and all hell breaks loose (hell is not used as a religious term here).

MOD up, thats a great DOC (1)

arcite (661011) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634510)

Chavez ownz all the oil man! All of it!, he has the US by the BALLS! He has SO much oil he is GIVING it away!

Well... that is so long he can stand the sulpur smell I guess. tee-hee...

Seriously though, Chavez is just your average guy who grew up in the slums and rising to power fighting for the little guy/gal.

Clearly Bush&Cheney would like nothing better than to introduce the harmless little fella to some friendly water boarding.

Re:Chavez isn't a saint, but Bush sure is the devi (2, Informative)

malsdavis (542216) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634652)

I would thoroughly recommend this documentory/movie. It is definitely not an anti-Bush propaganda film produced by the Democrats like many (who probably haven't seen it) say it is (it was produced by Spanish reporters for a start) and I would probably take some bits of the movie "with a pinch of salt", but they do have some amazing footage of a very odd event (or non-event as most have never heard of it) in modern history. If you like hearing about conspiracy theories than this is one, albeit focused on different factions conspiring against the people of Venezula rather than the U.S.A. (like in most conspiracy theory stories).

Another, kind of similar, movie called "Death of a president" is also quite insightful into the attitudes of the federal American political psyche. It is a British film focusing on the aftermath of an assassination of Bush. It also has some amazing imagary, this time Forest Gump style effects where actors appear to be on-stage with the president at events. Again it is definitely not an "anti-Bush" film, rather it examines how all sides use the obviously fictitious event for their own aims and - with both movies - they really show in the end the only people f%#ked over are the innocent people caught up in meddling by the higher powers.

Bush isn't a saint, but Chavez sure is the devil.. (1)

krell (896769) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634796)

"Before you start bashing Chavez, please take the time to watch"

I watched this video. It certainly did not make me favor the dictator. It was sort of heartbreaking that the coup almost set Venezuela on a road to decency, but the dictator won out in the end. Now with rigged elections and the laws Chavez passed (including one that requires a long jail term for criticizing the dictator), Latin America is sure to enjoy a few decades of bloodshed, war, and oppression from Venezuela's expansionist "President for Life."

Re:Bush isn't a saint, but Chavez sure is the devi (1)

glesga_kiss (596639) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634982)

I watched this video. It certainly did not make me favor the dictator.

How can he be considered a dictator? He got it to power democratically after huge support from the countries poor. This same support played a part in the counter-revolution to stop the undemocratic assention of a military government. What's your angle here? Have you actually seen the documentary? I honestly don't know how anyone could come to your conclusions after watching it. And yes, I have read of this coup before seeing the movie and I have seen information from both sides. The complaints are all coming from rich corrupt types, the folks that happen to be ruining many other nations. These folk are losing out as Chavez attempts to make his country fairer. Anyone that bitches against that is morally corrupt.

Re:Chavez isn't a saint, but Bush sure is the devi (1, Informative)

TheCrayfish (73892) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634986)

Chavez is considerably worse than [amnesty.org] just [usatoday.com] "not a saint [cbsnews.com] ". And comparing him to an elected President of the US is somewhat absurd. Anyone who thinks life in Venezuela [washtimes.com] under Chavez [hrw.org] would be nicer [hrw.org] than life in the United States under Bush should put their money where their mouth is and move there.

Re:Chavez isn't a saint, but Bush sure is the devi (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16635336)

Number of countries invaded by Chavez:
Number of countries invaded by Bush:

Answers on a postcard, please.

Re:Chavez isn't a saint, but Bush sure is the devi (1)

will_die (586523) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635086)

If you find the "The revolution will not be televised" you should also go watch this one [google.com] done by a couple of Venezuelan engineers which shows the background of what was happening and what was actually going on. English subtitles.

Download this movie now! (1)

ph1ll (587130) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635164)

I saw this movie last week at a showing in London's South Bank Center.

The film-maker said we were all free to download it. He'd covered his costs thanks to RTE and the BBC and just wanted people to see it now.

Great movie. And what happened was truly frightening. Not least because (as mentioned in the discussion afterwards) most of the Western press largely ignored it.

The movie vaguely hints that Washington may have been involved. It shows the plotters going to the White House the month before the coup. It shows George Tenet [wikipedia.org] hilariously complaining that Chavez did not have American interests as his number one priority. But the film-maker was keen on people making up their own minds.

Fight fire with fire (1)

Pink Tinkletini (978889) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634398)

What better antidote to Diebold could there be?

"Better" meaning practical and effective, not necessarily morally right.

Hold on a second (4, Insightful)

Black Parrot (19622) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634420)

Let's take care of the known threats to fair elections at home before we get too wrapped up in hypothetical foreign conspiracies.

Though a move to open systems would help with either.

What about investigating Diebold? (2, Insightful)

angryflute (206793) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634430)

Why won't the U.S. government investigate Diebold as well?

Implicit Admission of Inherent Security Flaws? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16634432)

But I thought these electronic voting machines are supposed to be secure - so noone involved in their deployment could 'influence' elections even if they wanted to? If this isn't the case (which this investigation seems to imply), then why only focus on one particular party involved in the production of these machines instead of all who are involved?

Poster child of FUD (4, Interesting)

orzetto (545509) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634436)

A GOP risking to lose an election, a less popular than ever PotUS, a largely announced electoral defeat: so let's try to blame the machines, and while we're at it Chávez too. It only surprises me they did not mention the company's CEO is an alias used by Osama Bin Laden or some other scarecrow.

The article also mentions (in the second page) the controversy about Chávez' re-election's, but fail to mention that election's result was UN-certified (unlike someone else's) and the guy in charge of UN controls was Jimmy Carter, not Fidel Castro.

Re:Poster child of FUD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16634644)

Obviously they'll blame Chávez when they loose to invade Venezuela as soon as they are done in Iraq.

Re:Poster child of FUD (1)

monopole (44023) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634794)

...as soon as they are done in Iraq.

Chavez will probably have died of old age.

Re:Poster child of FUD (1)

antifoidulus (807088) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634696)

Re your stat, actually the number of fatalities on America's highways is about 40k [dot.gov] . Drunk driving alone is involved with 17k a year [alcoholalert.com]

To put it into perspective, since 9/11, about 30x as many people died because of drunk drivers than died in the attacks. Don't get me wrong, the attacks were brutal and I'm sure the guys who were piloting the planes didn't reach the heaven they thought they were reaching, but as a nation we are overreacting.....

Re:Poster child of FUD (1)

fishbowl (7759) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634882)


>To put it into perspective, since 9/11, about 30x as many people died because of drunk drivers than died in the
> attacks

Okay, so how many people who worked in either the Pentagon or the WTC have been killed in drunk driving accidents?

Don't just draw arbitrary comparisons from among nonequivalent universes of discourse!

While you're at it, how many active military personnel have been killed in highway accidents?

Re:Poster child of FUD (1)

antifoidulus (807088) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635044)

Um, tell me exactly how much money is being spent each year to stop highway accidents or to stop drunk driving compared to what is being spent on wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and homeland security? The point of the OPs and my stats are that the reaction is way out of proportion to the crime committed. Maybe if the government had a "war on traffic accidents" we would all be a lot better off.....no wait scratch that. If it went anything like the war on terror then there would be MORE traffic accidents every year. Maybe it is a good thing the Bush administration is ignoring it.

Re:Poster child of FUD (1)

fishbowl (7759) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635108)

"Um, tell me exactly how much money is being spent each year to stop highway accidents or to stop drunk driving compared to what is being spent on wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and homeland security?"

Why? In what way are these things comparable?

Re:Poster child of FUD (1)

antifoidulus (807088) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635236)

Um, you missed the entire point. The Bush administration is claiming it's war on terror is saving lives. If he was truly interested in saving lives then he would put less money into fighting in a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 and more money at home trying to prevent car accidents or at the very least enforcing higher safety standards on cars(*cough*ban SUVs *cough) and maybe putting more money into some decent drivers education. But Bush isn't interested in saving lives, he is interested in his own little "projects" if you will, and using terrorism as an excuse to execute them.

The point is that the United States government is overreacting to 9/11. We need to fight terrorism, but that should be part of the larger goal of fighting all causes of death. Bush likes to use the term "safer". "America is safer since 9/11" etc. However, America may be safer from the threat of terrorism, but the larger picture remains: Americans are far from "safe" Hell, even homicides that don't involve airplanes claim more lives in the United States than died on 9/11. Where is the "war on homicide"? Where is the "war on obesity"? 40,000 people each year in the United States contract HIV. Where is the "war on HIV"? How about a "war on hunger" because despite the fact that the United States is the richest country in the world, more people go to bed hungry in the US than in the rest of the industrialized world combined. I don't see "wars" on any of these things, and yet they all pose greater dangers to the United States and it's citizens then terrorists ever would.

I found it funny and sad to see people cruising down to the local Wal-Mart in their roll-over prone SUV while not wearing a seat belt to buy duct tape because Tom Ridge said that it would help in a chemical attack. I'm sorry, but the much bigger risk to life and limb comes from that behemoth you are driving, not a fictional chemical attack.

Not overreacting, just reacting wrong (1)

bigtrike (904535) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635046)

The war has cost $340 billion dollars and 3,000 US soldier's lives. It's debatable whether we even made any real difference in Afghanistan, as the Taliban still controls most of the country and will likely restore it to where it was in 2001 within another year or two. The Iraq ware has likely made the threat of terrorism worse by replacing a non-threat with an extremist anarchy.

Even the right wing chickenhawks stated the war was going to be very long and expensive before we started it. By not making the choice to go to war, another 3,000 Americans would not be dead. We could have spent that $340 billion dollars on saving lives rather than killing our soldiers.

Re:Poster child of FUD (1)

chucklinart (1019932) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635000)

Hey, keep the facts out of it, buddy! This is about God, country, and godless communists. It has nothing to do with the facts. It's interesting how a story about possibly compromised voting machines with the implication that our elections could be influenced by godless communist America haters makes the front page of the New York Times, isn't it? I guess all the people warning about Diebold -- against which there is far more evidence than against Sequoia -- don't matter, the fact that the CEO of Diebold open favors Bush and directly promised to "deliver Ohio to George Bush" doesn't matter. Shows you where the media's head is, you know? Electronic voting is just another way to funnel countless millions of taxpayer dollars to a few rich guys, anyway. Did you notice that the Smartmatic contract with Venezuela was worth $120 mil? Not bad for a "small software company" apparently run by two guys. Wonder what they get from Uncle Sam. If we had any sense, elections would be decided by good old fashioned ballot boxes monitored by bipartisan committees of actual citizens. One quibble with your sig: Since it's been over five years since 9/11, wouldn't your car be 20 times more dangerous than Bin Laden by now?

Election fixing (2)

phizman (742537) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634452)

Nah, he just wants to fix his own elections just like the Republicans do. Damn you diebold!

Re:Election fixing (2, Insightful)

God of Lemmings (455435) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634940)

Fix his own elections? Its entirely likely that he already has.

[url:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequoia_Voting_S ystems]

I suspect that he realizes that George has done the same here,
and is basically doing the same to get George out, because he
believes George to be the Devil, or at least a reasonable facimile.

These machines have the same problems as Diebold, and a few of their own.

DRE, just like the Accuvote machines, small difficult to read typeface, and so on.
[url:www.votersunite.org/info/CorrectingSequoia.pd f]

All the noise going on here about it could be motivated by "certain interested parties",
to do a number of things, such as:

distract the public towards a different manufacturer, taking the pressure off of Diebold,

Throw more bad press at Chavez,

and attack the Sequoia machines because they present a perceived threat to their regional
control given by Diebold and other voting machines.

Re:Election fixing (1)

FrancescBlandino (845925) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635412)

It has been already done. In the Referendum in Venezuela, electronic voting was used exclusively, and a special (propietiary) program was designed by the elections comissions technicians to record every vote (that means each vote assigned to each voter). That data is used by the goverment to hire, fire or punish in many ways public servants from burocrats to judges, thus quenching any oposition. That data has been leaked in CD-ROMs you may buy it in any mayor city and is widely used not only in the goverment but also in the private sector, together with the list of signatures of the people who wanted the referendum. Thats the beauty of digital voting: No more secret voting. No paper trail to know the real outcome.

Flame Bait (3, Funny)

AlgUSF (238240) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634460)

I want to mod this article flame bait. Left-wing koolaid drinkers vs. right-wing koolaid drinkers. :-)

Re:Flame Bait (1)

PlusFiveTroll (754249) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635068)

In America we call Trolls, Politicians and Flaming, Politics. Everybody's drinking the Kool-aid these days, maybe except for the moderates, but they don't get any air time.

forgive the conspiracy theory (1)

Ungulate (146381) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634478)

I've had the sneaking suspicion for a while now that, in the event of narrow Democrat victories in this fall's midterms, Republican strategists will try to cast doubt on the safety of electronic voting. Increasingly, it looks like voting security issues are finally going to get the mainstream attention they deserve, and what better way to spin the issue than to pre-emptively associate it with Democrats and that commie Chavez. It's classic Rove - make the enemy's strength their weakness.

Re:forgive the conspiracy theory (1)

geoffspear (692508) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634566)

Well, maybe if Hugo Chavez is unanimously elected President of the US in a week and a half despite the extreme handicaps of not being on the ballot and not actually having an election for President at all on the ballot this year, someone might actually get the idea that some sort of voter-verified paper trail for elections is a good idea.

We need some really obvious fraud by anti-American foreigners to wake people up. Sadly, all we're going to get is both sides of Americans accusing each other of fraud, which the majority of voters will just see as normal politics, not as a reason to try to change the system to actually be accountable.

I'm still waiting for the trolls to show up in this thread arguing that quantum mechanics states that it's physically impossible to accurately count votes, so we shouldn't bother to try to be accurate.

Re:forgive the conspiracy theory (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16635382)

I have more of a suspicion that in the event of a Democrat landslide in the midterms, the machines will report a narrow victory, and then they Republicans will be able to point to this as proof that the machines aren't rigged, and then continue to rig every election from now on.

CmdrDildo has done it again! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16634504)

He's managed to put up an article that, aside from the bush bashing element, would get no posts whatsoever on slashdot.

Thanks, Dildo, for proving to us again how biased you are and that slashdot has nothing to do with presenting the facts for analysis, only the spin.

I think Nelson phrased it best.. (1)

wfberg (24378) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634580)

I think Nelson phrased it best..

"Hah-hah!"

I am of course referring to Nelson off of The Simpsons, not the the admiral, or the guy from South Africa..

Asian Hardware = Kim Jong-il elected US president! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16634694)

If Foreign Powers want to easily alter the outcomes of USA elections,
well most of the hardware, from the mother board to the chips, to the firmware,
is all built in various Asian countries...

If North Korea wanted to alter the outcomes of USA voting machines,
all they need is a few coordinated operatives in the companies who produce the subcomponent electronics...

A few back doors and keywords dropped in here and there,
and USA elections fall under the total control of Kim Jong-il,
or simply the highest bidder.

No where in the USA constitution were voting MACHINES allowed to vote - only people,
expected to vote with pen to paper.

Continual reliance on electronics, with no paper records, and no traceable performance -
nullifies the principles of democracy, and yields control of the USA to the
interests with the most technical savvy to alter votes to meet their needs.

Black Pen on white paper, with unique serialized voting forms, printing on carbonless duplicate paper,
Top copy for the vote, bottom copy for the voter. No Bubble counting - Just printed english.

The serialized voting forms would help prevent ballot stuffing.
No software / hardware / firmware / modem / Access file editing / breakdowns / lost votes.

Why is this so hard to understand?

It seems like they Want to enable at will altered vote counts...

It's hard to rig a voting machine (1)

HornWumpus (783565) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635330)

It has to act correctly when tested but cheat in the actual election.

That and the fact that candidates can be in different locations on the ballot make vote switching problematic. (e.g. some counties will but the R is spot 1 D in 2 then the third parties, others will be alpha by candidate name, still others in will draw lots for ballot locations.)

Doing this at a chip level while leaving your chips functioning well in other applications would be damn near impossible.

Besides both parties have at least one completely corrupt voting district in most states that can be counted on to 'generate' just the number of votes they need. They didn't need electronic voting machines to steal elections for the first 200 years.

Re:It's hard to rig a voting machine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16635420)

There's one flaw in your reasoning. Locally the Democrats rigged an election by looking at the party flag tagged with each candidate. The party has to be entered into the machine so that the straight party lever will work.

just another monopoly (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16634718)

This is all about the republicans/conservatives maintaining their monopoly of the voting fraud business.

Whatever happened to the belief in competition in this country?

Funny.... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16634726)

...how people cheating on their wives are the one that are the most afraid that their wives cheat on them...

Turn-About is Fair Play (1)

MSTCrow5429 (642744) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634760)

Somewhat amusing that after some Democratic partisans carped about electronic voting machines stealing elections for the GOP, now there's a federal investigation into one of the electronic voting machine companies for its ties to leftist dictator Hugo Chavez.

Re:Turn-About is Fair Play (1)

swab79 (842256) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634896)

Dictator? The guy was democratically elected...

Re:Turn-About is Fair Play (1)

MSTCrow5429 (642744) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635036)

I know I'm falling into a trap, but so was Hitler. Sort of torpedoes your point.

Re:Turn-About is Fair Play (1)

ckotso (121347) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635436)

So is Bush. Sort of torpedoes your point.

Re:Turn-About is Fair Play (1)

ckotso (121347) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635060)

Dictator? [cartercenter.org] Huh? [guardian.co.uk]

Get you facts right.

To Quote.... (1)

swalters1 (1008477) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634820)

Stalin once said: "Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." In short, why don't we have a paper trail on voting machines? Why are we willing to use a system that stops you from manually recounting? Why are we using machines to vote that can only be coutned by one company? Why does the Republican controled congress insist on tabling ANY resolution that would force voting machines to conform to the same "Transparent" standards as the old paper system? Stop, Look and Think about it....

Re:To Quote.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16635396)

Actually, you're the one who needs to stop, look and think about something: Stalin never said [about.com] what you credit him with. How does it feel to be a lemming? Or are you an outright liar trying to sway people your way by invoking the ghost of Stalin?

People really need to get this an other misquotes off of their favorite defense list... it's getting old, it's becoming known that it's a fraud by more people and it shows that they have nothing to back them.

Oh, of course. (1)

Vegeta99 (219501) | more than 7 years ago | (#16634852)

Yeah, it's gotta be the foreigners trying to fix our elections... couldn't be any native companies.

Personally, I'd rather have them doing it than /our/ politicians.

Fucking xenophobic, racist bastards.

one can hope... (1)

OiToTheWorld (1014079) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635042)

Maybe, Just maybe the venezeualans cheating will counterbalance the republican cheating and we can get a fair election for once!

the real issue (1)

j0nb0y (107699) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635056)

The real issue is that there are no good standards in the USA for what makes a secure electronic voting machine. Without a solid standard, companies like diebold and sequoia are going to offer insecure voting machines, precincts are going to buy them, and there's really no way to know whether vote fraud has occured, or will occur.

So Bush is going to lose (0, Flamebait)

ghostbar38 (982287) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635232)

And Bush already find an excuse, Chavez it's guilty!!

Come on! That's ridiculous!

Why should it matter? (1)

Sun (104778) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635266)

After all, it is not possible to trust ANYONE to hold veto power over democratic elections. That's why the procedures and requirements from electronic voting machines should not trust the machines (read - possibility of voter-verified manual recounts, etc.).

If that is the case, why does it matter who is doing the actual manufacturing?

Reminds me of a Black-Hat Briefing conference I attended some years back, where a chain of encrypted anonymous email servers was introduced. A member of the audience asked whether the presenter would use such a system operated by the NSA. His reply - if Mossad and Hammas both ran such a system, he would be sure to route his messages through both. One truely working machine along the way is enough to assert anonymity, and the chances of Mossad and Hammas cooperating against you are slim. I think voting machines should have protocols in place to make sure such a level of trust can be achieved, and then make the manufacturer irrelevant.

Shachar

WHat!!! No Way!! (1)

tranceyboy (1016910) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635290)

Our Goverment software shoudl all be made in the U.S.A., but i guess these ignorant states looking for the best bang for the buck and some publicity have neglected to include national security in thier decisions. No way can this happen, none of those votes should count. There should be a paper and an electronic form and voters should fill out both, so there is some way of conducting audit on these machines. There should be a law forbiding vital goverment functions; from being exported or outsoucrced to other countries. NOW I have a problem with electronic voting. I will stick to the thing with the lever... LOL Atleast chaves can log in and fudge around a couple voted here in there; jsut some americans with physical accsess.

So it's agreed (1)

BozoForPresident (659559) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635310)

Electronic voting equals election rigging. If any other party remotely connected to this mess is automatically assumed to be up to no good then I get the feeling current players have a guilty conscience. Can anyone not see that the dirt simple Indian voting machines are clearly superior to the America's?

Front End for Politicians (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16635312)

FYI, if you need to have your election rigged, just hop on over to fixavote [fixavote.com] where a friendly election consultant can help you negotiate the electronic voting opportunities offered by current manufacturers.

Funny it wasn't "stuff that matters" months ago.. (1)

CptNerd (455084) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635346)

I submitted about this back in April and it was rejected, now the NyTimes writes about it and it's "news."

Feh.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>