×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Greek Blog Aggregator Arrested

kdawson posted more than 7 years ago | from the careful-what-you-link-to dept.

180

arcanumas writes to tell us that Greek authorities have raided the house of Antonis Tsipropoulos, administrator of the blog aggregation site Blogme.gr. His hard drive was seized and he was arrested. The impetus was a satiric website, not named in the stories, that apparently offended a Greek public figure (also unnamed). The site in question was not hosted by Tsipropoulos but was merely linked to by his RSS fed. From the first article: "The developing story coincides with the Internet Governance Forum being hosted in Athens this week, to be attended by Internet luminaries, entrepreneurs, and activists like Vint Cerf, Bob Kahn, and Joi Ito and featuring panels on Openness and Freedom of Expression."

cancel ×
This is a preview of your comment

No Comment Title Entered

Anonymous Coward 1 minute ago

No Comment Entered

180 comments

RUN BITCH RUN ! (-1, Offtopic)

Joebert (946227) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635490)

I think we all know what this means.

Re:RUN BITCH RUN ! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16635516)

I think so, Joebert, but if we give peas a chance, won't the lima beans feel left out?

Remember kids... (1)

WindozeSux (857211) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635522)

The big boys don't like to look bad.

Missread... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16635670)

My god.. I read that GEEK Authorities.. :P

Re:Missread... (3, Insightful)

Chmcginn (201645) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636568)

They would have done a better job. Probably framed him for downloading child porn, and avoided all this bad publicity.

Monsters (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16635524)

It is clear that the individual who persecutes a man, his brother, because he is not of the same opinion, is a monster. - Voltaire
Seems to be a monster in the Greek government. I would love to hear some of the luminaries at the conference discuss this and embaress the Greek govenment publicly.

Re:Monsters (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16635626)

Are the quotes picked randomly or are they chosen or picked automatically by keywords?

Re:Monsters (0, Offtopic)

headkase (533448) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635798)

Its just the abstract entity that lives in the fortune's random number generator trying to get through to you in it's own special way ;)
But seriously, the human mind is a correlational machine. Think of a number, say, 711. Now look for it - you'll find it everywhere, twice a day on your clock, on a receipt, going to the corner-store, part of a license plate, and everywhere. It's not that you're looking for it it is that you notice when you see it and that therefore strengthen the action of subconsciously looking for it. As people mature, they tend to fill in the "connectedness" within their minds and are more able to start from one set of concepts and translate to another in a meaningful (if eccentric) way. This may shed some understanding on why teenagers seem to have such clear pictures in their beliefs - they haven't linked it all up yet.

Re:Monsters (1)

thripper (965380) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636486)

"Think of a number, say, 711. Now look for it - you'll find it everywhere, twice a day on your clock, on a receipt, going to the corner-sto..." You forgot the quotes. This idea wa presented in a movie , PI

Re:Monsters (1)

kfg (145172) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635628)

You don't suppose that this is a signal that such behavior won't be looked on kindly by the Greek authorities? The most effective censor is yourself.

KFG

Re:Monsters (1)

Rich0 (548339) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635690)

Keep in mind that this is a country that still hasn't figured out separation of church and state...

Greece is generally democratic, but it isn't really a towering symbol of European freedom. So, an article like this should hardly be surprising, when stuff almost as bad as this happens occasionally in the US/UK/Germany/etc.

Re:Monsters (0, Flamebait)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635720)

Keep in mind that this is a country that still hasn't figured out separation of church and state...

The concept hasn't existed for most of human history, why do you think this creation of 18th-century French and English nihilists is the One True Way?

Re:Monsters (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16635790)

Because it is an requirement for true religious freedom. Besides, it makes sense.

Re:Monsters (4, Interesting)

chill (34294) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635808)

Because government and religion are the two main bastions of power. The only way the little guy has a chance is to play them off each other.

Religion, as a whole, is a very bad thing to base government off of because it is so absolutist. "This is the word of God. You can't argue with God. The gov't is God's will on Earth, so arguing with the gov't is like arguing with God, you heretic." The problem is, God isn't around to run things and the people that do, in His name, are frequently bloody autocrats.

Re:Monsters (0, Offtopic)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635894)

The Orthodox Church, which is the majority faith in Greece, has fond memories of the Byzantine Empire. While there were autocratic episodes (generally by those who turned away from the Church), the rule of the Empire was generally benign and the spiritual well-being of the people was much higher than now, when now much of Greece is experiencing an existential crisis from the empty values imported from the West.

Re:Monsters (2, Insightful)

Rakishi (759894) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636036)

The blind look towards the past and envision utopias while unable to see all the filth their little eden swam in.

Re:Monsters (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16636208)

That's it dude, call other people blind as if you're so enlightened and ahead of the pack, while you sit in your Mom's basement and eat Fritos while longing to kiss a girl and find a job.

Re:Monsters (1)

Fordiman (689627) | more than 7 years ago | (#16637340)

I do believe he's quoting something, man.

Meanwhile, please keep assuming that anyone who you disagree with is some kind of basement dwelling uber geek.

You make me ill, troll.

Re:Monsters (2, Insightful)

drsmithy (35869) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636658)

While there were autocratic episodes (generally by those who turned away from the Church), the rule of the Empire was generally benign and the spiritual well-being of the people was much higher than now, when now much of Greece is experiencing an existential crisis from the empty values imported from the West.

The separation of Church and State does not remove the former's role as a spiritual leader, merely its ability to be a spiritual dictator.

Re:Monsters (1)

kilocoder (1020018) | more than 7 years ago | (#16637102)

Very true.

IMHO - people who understand religion never -insist- and -proclaim- that 'you can't argue with God' or 'It is an absolute'. They just live according to it. And the essence of no sane religion contains 'rule your neighbors and force them to obey my word'.

('zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance' contains something to this effect - no one is going around yelling that the sun is going to rise tomorrow. people can only be fanatic about something they doubt - probably because they don't understand it.)

Re:Monsters (1)

rthille (8526) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635848)

On the other hand, there's no evidence that the concept of 'state' existed for 'most of human history'...unless you count the tribe of humans living in a valley a 'state'.

Re:Monsters (1)

Rakishi (759894) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636056)

It has existed in various forms before that, it is simply an extension of religious freedom which has existed in Rome for example (as long as you made a gesture of loyalty to the emperor which unfortunately was against Jewish and Christian views). It is interesting to note that the Roman Empire/Republic had a rather large amount of such freedom and is seen as a rather good place. On the other hand the next thousand years in the same area had very little such freedom and is looked down upon with horror.

Re:Monsters (1)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636174)

It is interesting to note that the Roman Empire/Republic had a rather large amount of such freedom and is seen as a rather good place. On the other hand the next thousand years in the same area had very little such freedom and is looked down upon with horror.

You mean the Western part of the same area. The Eastern part of the Roman Empire passed into the Byzantine Empire for the next thousand years, which also had little freedom but is regarded by most modern historians as a productive and civilized society. Freedom and "good place" do not necessarily coincide.

Re:Monsters (1)

Original Replica (908688) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636782)

"Freedom and "good place" do not necessarily coincide."
As much as we love the idea of Democracy, there are alot of good arguments for a Benevolent Monarchy as the best form of government. The practicle problem seems to be the benevolent part.

Re:Monsters (1)

Coeurderoy (717228) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636558)

It is the One Acceptable Way, because if the "state supported religions" are "false" then forcing them onto the citizens is an abomination.
If they are "true" forcing them onto the citizens supresses the difference between trully religious people and cowards that are just afraid of the cops.

For example currently the worst place to be a good muslim (exept for converts) is in Saudi, since if you are born there of muslim parents NOT being a muslim is forbiden, so if you are a sincere believer and want to share your belief with others it is impossible, since there is no option to dissent everybody "seems" to share your belief, but their true feelings are more or less unknown.

So unless one believe that a religion that one does not need to believe in, but only to obey like a robot is "good" separation of religion and of any organization that can use force to support religion is an absolute necessity.

And people that want to put religion in the government are weak in their own faith, and this is what makes them want to "have to" be religious.

Re:Monsters (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16636956)

It is the One Acceptable Way, because ...

... it is what you are familiar with and you are unable to think outside the square.

For example currently the worst place to be a good muslim (exept for converts) is in Saudi, since if you are born there of muslim parents NOT being a muslim is forbiden, so if you are a sincere believer and want to share your belief with others it is impossible, since there is no option to dissent everybody "seems" to share your belief, but their true feelings are more or less unknown.

Because you have been indoctrinated in protestant christian individualism, you make some characteristic assumptions. Eg. that grace rather than works are the source of salvation; or that reglious piety is about an individual's mental relationship with God. Being a good muslim is about what you do and it is about living in a community where all obey God's law.

That's the problem with the separation of Church and State, it forces people to live a semi-life as a non-reglious citizen, when our entire beings should be given up to God. We don't really need governments of lawmakers, we already have God's law. And democracy is simply the fallacy that the mistaken beliefs of the majority are more valuable than the truth of God's revealed Word.

Re:Monsters (1)

Fordiman (689627) | more than 7 years ago | (#16637432)

Speakfor yourself, zealot.

Example: I have no belief in God. Yet, oddly, most people I meet consider me to be one of the nicest persons they've ever met. And, while I don't care if I'm recognized for it or not, I will bend over backwards to assist a cause I think is noble and worthy, even if it's something as simple as helping someone who's gotten a flat tire on the highway.

So, if it's deeds, I'm going to whatever 'good' version of the afterlife there is - but that's not enough if I'm in a church-mandated government; I also have to go through the rediculous rituals, the lame on-your-knees begging for salvation, etc.

Not only is that an inconvenience, it's an infringement on my rights, as far as I'm concerned. Seriously. I consider evangelists to be something on the order of spammers and telemarketers: least-of-evils that, given the existence of Dante's hell and a rational God, would be placed in the outer circle with the unbaptised.

That's why I smile and shut the door on the religious salesmen you see everywhere; sure I'm going to hell. I'll see you there, spammer.

Re:Monsters (2, Insightful)

misterpib (924404) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635828)

Keep in mind that this is a country that still hasn't figured out separation of church and state...

Oh, you mean kinda like the USA?

Re:Monsters (1)

mc6809e (214243) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636124)

Greece is generally democratic, but it isn't really a towering symbol of European freedom.


Don't confuse democracy and freedom. They're not the same at all.

Re:Monsters (1)

Joey7F (307495) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636812)

They are only different in definition. Free societies are uniformly democratic and vice versa (mostly).

--Joey

Re:Monsters (2, Interesting)

Pig Hogger (10379) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636680)

Keep in mind that this is a country that still hasn't figured out separation of church and state...
That's not it. It's simpler than that.

It's "southernness".

In general, "southern" countries, that is, countries which do not experience overly cold climate have in common the fact that democracy is either poorly developped or a newfangled phenomenon (think of Spain, Greece and Portugal who ditched their fascist dictatorships [often installed by the US] around 30 years ago).

In these countries, the mild climate means that one can live for cheap, as one does not need an elaborate house to keep him warm during the winter.

Thus, the necessity of work is less ingrained in southern populations, and this is reflected by the presence of stupid religions that do not push hard towards hard work (scatholicism, orthododoxy or islam), and actually suppress the accumulation of wealth (for a devout scatholic, making money is a one-way reserved ticket to hell; I recall seeing in a scatholic school book that "money is the devil's dung" [actual french: l'argent est le crottin du diable]).

Contrast this to northern protestant countries where wealth is not only welcome, but necessary for survival in the winter; hence, it's not surprising that protestantism evolved this way because when you have to bust your arse all year long to insure that you won't freeze in winter, any jerk who comes along and tells you that you oughta share with the poor is going to attain #1 grade asshole status pretty quickly...

In southern countries, democracy is underdevelopped also because only a few people managed to hold a disproportionate amount of influence, because they alone worked harder than the rest of the people whose religion does not push them towards hard-work. Hence governments are more tilted towards the oligarchy and the kind of stupid banana-republic antics southern countries are well known for.

The greek blog aggregator crackdown is yet another illustration of this principle that little chickenshit dictators can pop-up everywhere (a good example is the sicilian and calabrese mafias of southern Italy) and are able to bamboozle authorities into silencing critics (interestingly, this principle is also alive and well in the US, too, hardly a southern scatholic country in principle).

Re:Monsters (1)

QuoteMstr (55051) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636790)

Do you have any more academic sources for that point of view? That's a very Jared-Diamond-esque way of looking at how geography influences behavior, but neither JD nor anyone else I've read has explicitly tied democracy to a harsh climate (though it makes senes on the gut feeling level.)

Why would some of the world's first (sort-of) democratic societies, ancient Greece and the Roman Republic, have evolved in these "southern" countries?

Thanks.

fascist dictatorship (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16636288)

Greece was a pretty seriously and heinously run dictatorship, courtesy of the CIA and assorted leftover nazis and sympathsizers for a very long time. I don't know what it is like now, but it used to be that way. The rule of the Generals, complete with a lot of massacres, torture, dissapeared people, the regular stuff you get from the oil and drugs soaked US spooks.

Re:Monsters (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16636686)

It is clear that the individual who persecutes a man, his brother, because he is not of the same opinion, is a monster.

Yup this blogger certainly is a monster, persecuting a public figure like that! Just as well they've taken him off the streets.

Protect yourself (1)

cptgrudge (177113) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635596)

Maybe it's time to start using I2P [i2p.net] or similar?

Re:Protect yourself (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16635892)

Touché.

Re:Protect yourself (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16636026)

i'd say Anonet [anonet.org] myself

Re:Protect yourself (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16636548)

I've used i2p, mute, ants, and waste. The best anonymous network I've found is anonet.. its got great speeds, and any services you run on the internet can be run there as well. Check it out at anonet.org

If it was his site that was raided (0)

LiquidCoooled (634315) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635610)

Then why was his home hard drive confiscated and not the site drive?

Other than that, I can't get any deeper cos I don't understand any of it - its all greek to me.

Greeks will Arrest on ANY Suspicion (1)

DumbSwede (521261) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635614)

If find this link in the main story to be just as alarming or worse: Swedish programmer in Greek spam probe protests innocence [theregister.co.uk]

The Greek police will arrest you on suspicion of spamming. Given the coincidence they have followed as "reasonable grounds" it would seem anyone that gets a virus or trojan that might scan your address book is in jeopardy if they visit Greece. This is just crazy.

Re:Greeks will Arrest on ANY Suspicion (1)

arcanumas (646807) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635752)

Worse.
There was a guy who had setup a website were he supposedly, for a given price, would find you a job as a civil servant by using his 'connections' to elected official (effectively satirizing the situation in Greece).
Anyone who who has been on 'the internets' for more than 5 minutes and has an intelligence quotient over 70, could tell it was a joke (it even had badly photoshoped images)
Guess what happened. Not only was he arrested, but the mainstream media in Greece (tv, etc) reported it as completely legitimate for a few days. (till they figured it out..)

Re:Greeks will Arrest on ANY Suspicion (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16636000)

He's Dmitri Fotiou. His website was a riot. The lack of intelligence of these Greek authorities is amazing - they didn't even check the HTML. That's how bloody incompetent they are.

Fotiou still has to report to the police every month. Incredible. They still insist on holding a trial, despite the fact the situation is totally ridiculous.

See these links for more on the Foutiou story.
http://rixstep.com/1/0/20060505,00.shtml [rixstep.com]
http://rixstep.com/1/0/20060507,00.shtml [rixstep.com]

Visit Dmitri's blog here.
http://fotiou.net/blog2/blogger.html [fotiou.net]

And lest we forget: cellphones were officially illegal in Greece at the time of the 2004 Olympics and a representative of the Greek embassy in London at the time was quoted as saying:

"If you know they are illegal then don't bring them into our country."

Both the Fotiou and the spammer/programmer cases are still wide open; in the latter case (which was repeatedly reported to Slashdot at the time but was ignored) the forensic lab returned "no evidence" over ten months ago and still nothing happens - and a simple phone call before calling out the National Guard would have resulted in laughs all around; in the Fotiou case a simple inspection of the HTML would have shown it was all a joke as well. These people are simply too much.

But in Greece that which is a joke is not funny and that which should be taken seriously is a joke. It is the height of hypocrisy and effrontery that this conference be held in this country - a country moreover where over 100 top cabinet and other officials let themselves be spied on through their cellphones for over two years, and where the whistle blower, initially silenced, later committed suicide, and where the government have done everything in their power to hush things up ever since.

Greece is not only one of the most corrupt governments and societies in the world; it is also one of the most clumsy and confused.

Re:Greeks will Arrest on ANY Suspicion (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16636838)

And lest we forget: cellphones were officially illegal in Greece at the time of the 2004 Olympics

Do you have a cite for that?

Re:Greeks will Arrest on ANY Suspicion (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16637134)

Oh geez. Do you? Can't you search the Internet yourself? This is common knowledge. Sheesh. Start with Rupert Goodwins at ZD UK. Check TechDirt. The articles are ALL OVER THE PLACE.

Do your own research - everyone else is fully aware of this.

Re:Greeks will Arrest on ANY Suspicion (1)

Jessta (666101) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636048)

You are responible for the actions of computer systems that you own. If this were not so, then crackers and spams could just deny that they knew their computers were taking such actions.

Re:Greeks will Arrest on ANY Suspicion (1)

DumbSwede (521261) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636268)

Sure they can deny it, but in their cases there should be a money trail and source code.
I'll bet over 50% of computers have had at least some minor level of compromise at sometime, should we jail 50% of the population?

If you own a computer and someone else, an uncle for instance downloads some kiddy porn on it while you are away are you responsible for this? You should only be held responsible for your actions directly.

I wouldn't kick if there were some kind of (minor) penalties for your computer becoming part of a bot-net if it was proven your action were reckless, no virus software, no firewall, and then only if there was prior notification this would be the outcome of unsafe security practices.

Typical (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16635640)

The Greek government is not particularly known for its respect of people's rights. Just ask them if they have any minorities in their country, and how many Greek minorities there are in other countries bordering Greece.

Re:Typical (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16635688)

Don't trust the results, though--the Greek government will only admit to the existence of minorities specifically mentioned in their international treaties.

Also, their human trafficking record is a good place to look for Human Rights issues.

For a more general picture, consult The Human Rights Watch scoop [hrw.org] .

Re:Typical (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16636238)

and let me guess. You also think that greece is located near mexico, it has a dictator and people eat bananas there. And they are black. Muslims.

And there are no minorities in countries around greece because they have been genocided.

Re:Typical (1)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636962)

Just north of Greece, there is an area that used to be called Yugoslavia. There are three major ethnic groups there. The two largest groups are the Serbs, who are Eastern Orthodox Slavs, and the Croats, who are Roman Catholic Slavs. The third-largest group are...the Muslims.
And guess what it was in the news for the most in the last decade or so? Ethnic cleansing, also known as genocide, from a Serb named Slobodan Milosevich.

Re:Typical (1)

satan666 (398241) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636564)

STFU because you have no idea of what you're talking about.

Greece is a country of 10 Million people, what minorities are you talking about idiot?

Last time I was in Greece I saw Albanians, Bulgarians and not to mention other Balkan nationals working in many jobs
and owning many stores.

So, your statement, unsupported by facts, is just plaint bullshit.

So, again, STFU!

Re:Typical (1)

gclef (96311) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636784)

Reading comprehension, my friend. He didn't say to look around for how many minorities there *are*, he said to ask the government how many *it* *thinks* there are. The difference between what the government thinks and reality can be surprisingly large.

Re:Typical (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16636982)

We do have a minority of Muslims in Thrace who are treated even better than the Greeks over there..We also do have many Albanians and some Nigerians (African in general I guess but all the ppl I have met self identified themselves as Nigerians) living in big cities. Greece used to have Greeks in Instabul but there were some "misfortunate events" that forced most of them to either come back to Greece or send their children to Greece so there are hardly any Greeks left over there. There are also some Greeks in South Albania from what I know..
Greek government is respecting people's rights more than most European countries (and of course US) whereas many of our neighbours are not that kind to people with Greek origin...
Nonetheless, the point is that the "cybercrime" division in Greece is just pretty much computer illiterate. Their infamous attempts to meet with people from the athens.indymedia.org website are well known in the Greek internet community. They would sign at the end of the email as "Sfakianakis" but their outlook client was sending out the email address together with their actual name...
So, nothing really to see here, just incompetent bureaucrats working for (surprise!) the Government:(

The weblog (1)

grazzy (56382) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635646)

Could be this one: http://funel.blogspot.com/ [blogspot.com]
Also, the wikipedia entry on Dimosthenis Liakopoulos is very entertaining: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimosthenis_Liakopoul os [wikipedia.org]

Re:The weblog (1)

jbourj (954426) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636132)

Although Tsipropoulos gave no clues to the identity of the plaintiff, the only satirical blog known to appear in blogme.gr lampooned televangelist and national mysticist Dimosthenis Liakopoulos.

But it couldn't be! Televangelists never go to extremes; when was the last time you heard of a religious evangelical wako with enough influence in governemnt to get people arrested?

But seriously now, maybe Liakopoulos just took the advice of Ted Haggard [wikipedia.org] .

Yeah... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16635654)

Gee, it's too bad Condoleeza Rice didn't turn the Internet over to the UN, like you guys all wanted...

Freedom of Speech (3, Insightful)

photomonkey (987563) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635658)

I know sometimes it's hard for us living in the US to remember that our case of (mostly) free speech is not common in other parts of the world.

Even Great Britain has no guarantee of free speech, per se.

Now, if only we could start spreading that around the world instead of spreading DemocracyTM, real democracy might ensue.

Re:Freedom of Speech (1)

slusich (684826) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635692)

And here in the US we are dangerously close to loosing what we have. "Free Speech Zones", talk of putting newspaper editors on trial for treason and a goverment which is more and more inclined to shroud itself in secrecy all threaten the rights to which we've become accustomed.

Re:Freedom of Speech (1)

photomonkey (987563) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635764)

All the while, I find myself wondering how much of the US population knows, or cares that we're headed for a place where speech is free as long as it's popular.

Re:Freedom of Speech (1)

ThJ (641955) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635900)

Hasn't most of Western Europe got free speech? In Norway, there are a couple of exceptions. One is quite archaic: it's illegal to insult His Majesty the King. Also, I think hate speech may be illegal. This would generally apply to the rest of Scandinavia too. When Americans speak of the rest of the world and how unfortunate they are, it touches a nerve in me...

Re:Freedom of Speech (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16636058)

As with the examples you mention, the US tends to have more absolute protection of speech (particularly political speech) than most Western European countries do. But I think the point people are making here isn't that Western Europeans are essentially unfree (which would be silly) but more of a reaction against the constant stream of whiny stories and comments about how the US is worse than North Korea. Yesterday's idiotic "Bush declares martial law!!!" story is a good example.

Re:Freedom of Speech (1)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636142)

To an American, the restrictions in Norway sound appalling. Some Americans would agree with a ban on hate speech in principle, but would sour to the idea when it came to letting someone else decide what hate speech consists of.

Re:Freedom of Speech (1)

Joey7F (307495) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636892)

Right, another way of saying that for our Scandinavian readership is that we feel the most appropriate punishment for hatespeech mongers is to be marginalized and ridiculed.

I was thinking about the hate speech exclusion in several western European nations the other day listening to a satire on the radio. A man in New York city had on a Nazi helmet (complete with flag) and tried to get a taxi at the same time a black guy was trying to get the cab. In a best of 7 match, the Nazi won 4 to 3. I wonder if that would have been allowed in Germany or Austria?

--Joey

Re:Freedom of Speech (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16635924)

Yeah, any looser and they might just fall off.

Wow... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16635762)

..it's really hard to say if you are being sarcastic. Considering what has been happening in the US lately... and the fact that Greece is the birth place of democracy... and then the twist at the end..... *head explodes*

Re:Wow... (1)

ringbarer (545020) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635896)

Greece was also the birthplace of Sodomy.

Re:Wow... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16636152)

Greece was also the birthplace of Sodomy.

So the Democrats practice sodomy. What else is new?

Re:Wow... (1)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 7 years ago | (#16637018)

No, homosexual activities have been observed in animals which have lived hundreds of millenia before Man formed coherent speech.

Re:Wow... (1)

ricree (969643) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635898)

The problem with the US isn't a lack of rights. The problem is that our freedoms are decreasing. If this trend were to continue, we would have a lot of problems, but our overall state at the present isn't all that bad.

The beginning of any "democracy" (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635910)

IS free speech. This is where it starts. ( and remember, that we here in the US dont have a democracy.. never really have.. we have a Representative Republic. However, free speech is still its cornerstone.

Thus the reason for the first amendment.

After that, you have to be able to stand up and fght for your rights .. thus the 2nd amendment... This is the mortar that holds the stone of free speech together.

Re:The beginning of any "democracy" (1)

node 3 (115640) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636456)

we have a Representative Republic
That's a tautology. Republics are defined, in part, by having representatives.

Additionally, republics *are* democratic. They aren't democratic in the sense that every single action taken by the state is put up for a vote, but democratic in the sense that the representatives are elected by the people.

In other words, a republic is a form of democracy. The only reason people (*ALWAYS* from the right-wing, both conservative and libertarian) try to make a distinction between democracy and republic is because they don't actually want the people to have any power. This is the *exact* opposite of democracy, and is not, even, a republic.

Re:The beginning of any "democracy" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16636550)

A republican form of government need not have representatives elected by the people... they could just as easily be elected by the aristocracy, by the military, by corporate leaders, etc.

"Representative republic" is redundant, but "democratic republic" is not.

Re:The beginning of any "democracy" (1)

Joey7F (307495) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636926)

How are libertarians right wing? Is it because they aren't left wing? In the standard compass of political beliefs, North is Libertarian, East is Conservative, South is Totalitarianism, and West is Liberal.

I want people to have power, but I don't want people confused by what we have either. By the way, for American readers, early voting is probably starting this coming week/weekend. There is no excuse to not vote :)

--Joey

Re:Freedom of Speech (1)

avxo (861854) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636380)

The "other parts of the world" that you specify don't include Greece. There, free speech and the freedom of the press is guaranteed by the Constitution (Section II, Article 14) with exceptions similar to those in force of the U.S.A. by Court fiat (such as yelling "fire" in a crowded theater or publicizing details detrimental to national security) and two additional restrictions against insulting the person of the President of the Republic, and the Christian faith, which is the de jure national religion.

Re:Freedom of Speech (2, Informative)

LabRatty (96497) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636722)

You may not be near a dictatorship, but you are not as good as you seem to think you are. And certainly not better than the UK.

Freedom of the press survey - http://www.worldaudit.org/press.htm [worldaudit.org]

Including democracy and corruption figures - http://www.worldaudit.org/democracy.htm [worldaudit.org]

Re:Freedom of Speech (1)

grmarkam (555423) | more than 7 years ago | (#16637446)

According to that, while the UK is better than the US in terms of corruption (rank 14 vs 10) and democracy (14 vs 9), on freedom of the press the US is better than the UK (11 vs 18).

My favourite sites are blog aggregators (1)

From A Far Away Land (930780) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635664)

I don't want to scare my buddies in the aggregator "business", but this is bad news if the arrests happen in the West too. Aggregators aren't huge in the American blogosphere, but they get lots of traffic in Canada, where Blogging Tories, Progressivebloggers.ca [progressivebloggers.ca] and even local ones like Sask Blogs Aggregator [catprint.ca] get more traffic than most individual bloggers.

Lance at Saskblogs has a nice little disclaimer:
Disclaimer:

Catprint Computing, Lance Levsen, and the blog, "Catprint in the Mash" does not endorse and is not responsible for the content of external sites.

What you are seeing is a pull from the originating site. This site, or any of my related websites, are not meant, nor to be interpreted as, an endorsement of the postings, content, or links from the originating sites contained herein.

In other words, you wanna sue? Click the links to find the defendants, cuz I ain't them.

If you find questionable, copyrighted, libellous, or slanderous content, please email me here. I will review your concerns and if I find in favour, will pull the content forthwith.

Cheers,
lance

How? (1)

grev (974855) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635684)

How is this illegal?

Re:How? (4, Insightful)

thanasakis (225405) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635840)

Obviously it is not illegal. The guy was set free the next day. And after all this publicity, I suspect that he will have no problem being acquited in trial.

This is yet another example of litigation used as a means of threat. Unfortunately, this doesn't happen around Greece only. The guys that started all this probably don't have a chance in court, but they sure caused a whole lot of trouble to that guy. I only hope that he will countersue them for moral damage and demand a shitload of money in compensation.

Blame World War 2 (1)

/dev/trash (182850) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636586)

That's the gist of it. No one in Europe wants another Hitler/Mussolini/Stalin type debacle, and they think that making people say only nice things will keep the peace.

Meanwhile, in the USA.... (2, Insightful)

Pharmboy (216950) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635708)

I still find it ironic that I get a lot of trash talk about how "unfree" speech is the US, yet I see US policitians call each other worse stuff during any election cycle, and no one goes to jail. Just as you can't have a pro-nazi site in Germany, and a host of other restrictions in every other country.

We have our own problems here in the States, (ie: 2600 getting sued for linking to DeCSS code...) but at least pretty much anything goes when it comes to politicians.

Re:Meanwhile, in the USA.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16636178)

Been reading the news lately? Special prisons are being erected as we speak, especially for folk like you. Free speech? As long as you say exactly what's allowed to be said, you're free to say it!

Remember to vote next election.

Name of the accusor (5, Informative)

Project2501a (801271) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635780)

the name of the suitor is Dimosthenis Liakopoulos, a well-known tv-bookseller and demagogue in Greece, who also "happens" to belong to the ultra-right wing in Greece I'm Greek, and i got to say I find myself being ashamed one more time, after the "Greece bans Videogames" thingie

Am I alone in this? (1)

AWhiteFlame (928642) | more than 7 years ago | (#16635832)

Did anyone else read this as "Geek Blog" instead of "Greek Blog"?

Re:Am I alone in this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16636222)

Made me wonder who the Geek authorities were.

Re:Am I alone in this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16636652)

"Did anyone else read this as "Geek Blog" instead of "Greek Blog"?"

That's how I first read it, too. I thought CowboyNeal had been arrested.

Somebody one day will launch (1)

netglen (253539) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636098)

a satellite and host all those "Too hot to handle sites". It would be great having the first public site where anybody in the world can post their thoughts without fear of the jack booted govs throwing them in jail.

Re:Somebody one day will launch (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16636536)

What happens when the server crashes? Or needs some extra RAM or HDD space because of increased use?

Hello from CellegeTown, USA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16636106)

"Alpha Alpha Alpha!"

that is interesting... (1)

Lith Maethor (823341) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636220)

have to admit i had to wait for Slashdot in order to learn about this... and i live in the same city as the one that most probably is behind this frell up... there are three basic things here: 1. most greek officials are technologically impaired (kinda like the amish, but more sneaky about it) cops and judges are no different 2. the one who sued blogme (if it is liakopoulos after all) is hardly someone people actually take seriously ...nobody with half a braincell anyway 3. there is a slight possibility this is not real, as he has been the target of far more intense satire and never acted upon it

AnoNet (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16636410)

To those who feel they might be unjustly persecuted, AnoNet has helped immensely in the direction of anonymity - http://anonetnfo.brinkster.net/ [brinkster.net]

Shame (1)

MagnusE (1019984) | more than 7 years ago | (#16636690)

Shame on the Greek Authorities (Body of Electronic Crime included), really. They've done a pretty good job in arresting criminals that take advantage of child pornography or thieves that take advantage of people's ignorance over the use of electronic payment methods, but some times I doubt if they have the judgeship of how things really work over the internet. Unfortunately there are public prosecutors that simply don't laugh at such accusations.
However, Greek Law is somehow up-to-date for such accusations and I estimate that the defendant will be acquitted. The problem is that the PC of the defendant (confiscated by the authorities) contained important data of his small personal enterprise (that is subsidised by the Greek Unemployment Office - that is in turn funded by European Union) and now his professional reliability is shattered.

Wow (1)

Salvance (1014001) | more than 7 years ago | (#16637422)

And there's so much talk on here (particularly by foreigners) about how bad the U.S. has gotten. I guess nobody in Greece allows unmoderated comments on their blogs ...
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...