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Halo 3 Details Begin to Emerge

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the i-have-defied-gods-and-demons dept.

70

Eurogamer has a short rundown on some Halo 3 details which have emerged from the Swedish games mag LEVEL. There are a few details on weapons, levels, combat mechanics, and a super-special helmet edition for the game. From the article: "Finally, there's news on the contents of the Halo 3 'Legendary Edition', which will consist of four DVDs' worth of content and, amusingly, a replica Spartan helmet. So what's on those four discs? Well, the game, obviously, and then documentaries and developer commentaries, bonus material like Red vs. Blue episodes, and cut-scenes from Halo 1 to 3 in high-definition. There will also be some sort of Halo film trailer located in the package." 1up has announced they're going to have a bevy of features on the game tying in to the new issue of EGM, so more details should be available online soon.

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70 comments

"How we became Microsoft whores!" (-1, Flamebait)

DurendalMac (736637) | more than 7 years ago | (#16644065)

I'd love to hear Jason Jones spit that one out on accident. "Yeah, we talked all about full publishing rights when MS bought us, but dammit, Gates' cock tastes so good that we figured we'd only put Halo 2 PC out for Vista! Gates said he needed a flagship game to convince gamers to upgrade to his lackluster new OS, and we're more than happy to suck away! Nevermind the Mac port too, because we don't give a shit about screwing over our earliest, most loyal fans!"

Re:"How we became Microsoft whores!" (1)

Lostconfused (1019042) | more than 7 years ago | (#16644481)

Well your comment, cutting out the sarcasms, is pretty much true. But i believe is to late to start panicking now, since you could have expected all of this from the moment that MS bought out bungie. I am actually a bit surprised that the first halo game made it to PC, well it could be argued, but MS could have left halo as a console only game.

Re:"How we became Microsoft whores!" (1)

pl1ght (836951) | more than 7 years ago | (#16644527)

Im sure he feels horrible about being rich. Selling out is everyones dream.

Re:"How we became Microsoft whores!" (1)

JWSmythe (446288) | more than 7 years ago | (#16645039)


    No shit. If someone threw millions my way, you'd be amazed what I'd do.

    Or the shorter list, what I wouldn't do. :) As long as I'd stay alive with all my parts attached, it's a very short list.

Re:"How we became Microsoft whores!" (1)

Lord Kano (13027) | more than 7 years ago | (#16645883)

As long as I'd stay alive with all my parts attached, it's a very short list.

I'd have to add my dignity as well.

There are a whole lo of TERRIBLE things that they can make you do that won't endanger your life.

How about the short list; Bukkake, sheise, Scat, cuckolding...

See where this is going?

LK

Re:"How we became Microsoft whores!" (1)

bigman2003 (671309) | more than 7 years ago | (#16646873)

I'd do all of that for the right amount of money.

Really, would you pass up millions of dollars (never need to work again) just because you don't want 30 guys to cum on your face?

Wash it off...take a hot shower. Go on vacation for a month, and you'll pretty much forget the whole thing.

The only way to lose dignity is to decide you don't deserve it. Making a ton of money for doing something stupid does not mean you lose your dignity, it just means you made a wise business decision.

Re:"How we became Microsoft whores!" (1)

Lord Kano (13027) | more than 7 years ago | (#16650521)

Really, would you pass up millions of dollars (never need to work again) just because you don't want 30 guys to cum on your face?

Yes.

Wash it off...take a hot shower. Go on vacation for a month, and you'll pretty much forget the whole thing.

At the end of which, you'd be a clean and well rested whore.

LK

Re:"How we became Microsoft whores!" (1)

JWSmythe (446288) | more than 7 years ago | (#16650953)

People get crap pay to do that stuff on the Internet. I think for a few million, it's not all that bad of a thing. It's all a matter of the price tag.

    Hell, for the all time low price of just 10 million, I'd let someone do all that. For 15 million, they can even publish the pictures on the front page of every news site there is. I'd even do it with a shit eating grin on my face. Maybe a bit too literally. :)

    Most of the people I know wouldn't care in the least. Anyone else, I don't care what they think.

    Really, it's all academic. It's not going to happen, because the real offer will never be made. Anyone with that kind of money can go to any 3rd world country, buy a town, and do whatever they want to every person in the town.

    Which brings to mind something I was seeing in the news for a while.. The white slave trade. Girls being bought and sold for just a few hundred dollars, and being forced into the sex trade. If they can be had so easily, why can't I seem to find where to buy one? I checked ebay, and there are no listings. :)

Lets Keep It Real Here (3, Insightful)

NDPTAL85 (260093) | more than 7 years ago | (#16644621)

If Bill Gates shoved Millions of dollars in cash under your nose, I'm talking tens of millions of dollars for you and your co-partners, wouldn't you too say "Buh-bye" to Slashdot ethics of cross platform this and open source that and say yes so you could start living the Good Life(TM)?

You know, the one where you have a house on each cost, frequent trips over seas, a massive yacht, girls who look so good that EVERYONE is in general agreement you wouldn't have them if you didn't have the money you now have, and most importantly, All The Computer Gear You Could Ever Want!?!?!?!?

Or would you, seriously, tell Gates "You know what, that $30 million you are offering me looks real tempting, but uhhhh you know I just know this wouldn't sit right with teh Slashdot and Open Source crowds so even though those two camps wouldn't give me so much as a pot to piss in I'm going to have to say no and stick to working two fast food jobs to make ends meet and support my computer/internet habits."??

Please people be honest in your responses here. No matter which way you choose, be true to yourself.

Re:Lets Keep It Real Here (1)

techpawn (969834) | more than 7 years ago | (#16644863)

"Can I give you a reason I sold out? How about 30 million of them? All of em dollars."

Re:Lets Keep It Real Here (1)

Lord Kano (13027) | more than 7 years ago | (#16645807)

You know, the one where you have a house on each cost, frequent trips over seas, a massive yacht, girls who look so good that EVERYONE is in general agreement you wouldn't have them if you didn't have the money you now have, and most importantly, All The Computer Gear You Could Ever Want!?!?!?!?

On a side note, if a woman is only interested in you because of your bankroll, you're better off without her.

If I were to ever become rich, I wouldn't want a trophy bimbo.

LK

This material "good life" (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 7 years ago | (#16647201)

If Bill Gates shoved Millions of dollars in cash under your nose, I'm talking tens of millions of dollars for you and your co-partners, wouldn't you too say "Buh-bye" to Slashdot ethics of cross platform this and open source that

If I had morals, I'd keep a million or two for early retirement and then donate the rest to Free Software Foundation and other worthy causes.

and say yes so you could start living the Good Life(TM)? You know, the one where you have a house on each cost, frequent trips over seas, a massive yacht, girls who look so good that EVERYONE is in general agreement you wouldn't have them if you didn't have the money you now have, and most importantly, All The Computer Gear You Could Ever Want!?!?!?!?

This material "good life" that you describe isn't the actual good life.

Erm... (5, Funny)

Tarlus (1000874) | more than 7 years ago | (#16644167)

"...while multiplayer modes will also benefit from something playfully dubbed the Man Cannon..."

I really hope they rename that.

Wii, PiSs3, Man Cannon (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 7 years ago | (#16647245)

I really hope they rename [the Man Cannon].

Why? Microsoft needs its own joke of a name to match Wii and PiSs3.

Re:Erm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16652217)

Your mom benefited from something playfully dubbed the Man Cannon the other night...

Biggest feature? (0, Troll)

EvilCabbage (589836) | more than 7 years ago | (#16644207)

Will Halo 3 finally include that missing 'interesting gameplay' feature that seemed to be cut from the last two?

Re:Biggest feature? (1)

Tarlus (1000874) | more than 7 years ago | (#16644395)

lol.
I noticed that most of these improvements will appeal to the multiplayer crowd... which would make sense since Halo 2 also seemed to focus more attention on its multiplayer than on its single player campaign (and that shows because it was panned by critics for it). I'd have to admit that the first one wasn't that great in single player mode, and I never actually played it all the way through... But the multi, it definitely fills the void for console gamers that Unreal Tournament fills for PC gamers.

Re:Biggest feature? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16644771)

Halo has the most run of the mill standard every other game has done it gameplay. And yet people worship it. And then people who hold board meetings to decide the next big game go "Oh hey that sold well lets do another exactly the same!". And the AI isnt anything all that special either.

Yes. Im saying you need to learn to buy games responsibly so they stop making crappy ones like Halo. The last game with multiplayer I liked was C&C Renegade. To this day I have yet to find any kind of multiplayer FPS experience that satisfies me the way Renegade does. Every single is the same thing "kill everything you see" but with different maps. Way to go industry. People will blame a whole host of reasons on the decline of the PC gaming market but the simple answer is nobody tries anymore.

Games like Tron 2.0 and NOLF2 for single player experience dared to be different and provide unique experiences. C&C Renegade dared to be new, and innovative, meanwhile just because Unreal Tournament looks pretty people worship it like Halo when all it offers is the same old stale formula that Doom had. God I hate you all.

Re:Biggest feature? (1)

theStorminMormon (883615) | more than 7 years ago | (#16647135)

At the risk of being laballed the resident Halo fanboi or whatever:
1. I don't play Halo (1 or 2) on xbox live
2. I've beaten Halo (1 and 2) more than once on single player. Those are the only two games I've *ever* played through more than once.

I think a lot of the love for Halo comes from the story/art/audio, etc. I get tired of people who complain about gameplay "you only kill stuff in FPS". Well duh, that's why it's fpS. The point is: are you just mindlessly blowing up aliens for no good reason? Or is there actually a plot? Does the game have character or not? Is this "Lethal Weapon" or "Street Fighter: The Movie"?

The music for Halo is fantastic. The voice acting is way above-par. The script doesn't make my mind want to shrivel up and die (see: Resident Evil). The story first and foremost *exists*. You know, not just "bad things try to kill, kill them first", but a genuine plot and everything. Not only does the story exist, however, it's actually a pretty good one. There's good foreshadowing about some connection between the Forerunners and the humans, there's interesting conflict between loyalty/truth-seeking - I mean it's not Albert Camus or anything, but at least there's *some* substance to go with the explosions. I mean when Master Chief leaves Cortana behind at the end of Halo 2 - I *cared*. And just as far as art goes: the worlds are very well-realized, with cool and unique styles for the covenant versus the humans versus the Forerunners.

I mean, if you really want to get a glimpse of how well-realized the universe is, check out the I Love Bees audio. Probably one of the best radio-dramas (for lack of a better term) I've ever heard. And I like radio dramas (e.g. old sci-fi/adventure radio broadcasts). I've also listened to that story all the way through about 3 times since I've first heard it, and everyone I've corralled into listening to it is amazed at how great of a story it is.

Anyway, that's just my two bits. There's more to a game than just what you're doing at any given moment. When you get down to it, all action/adventure/fps type games are just hand-eye coordination. But so what? When you get down to it watching a movie is just sitting in the dark staring at moving pictures on a screen. And listening to music is just experiencing sound waves knock up against your ear drum. It's not what you're doing that matters so much as what's going on inside. The folks at Bungie put together a universe compelling enough that I want to play there. That's why I like Halo.

-stormin

Re:Biggest feature? (0)

zonker (1158) | more than 7 years ago | (#16654081)

i think the reason why people seem to worship halo is because it is one of the few 3d shooter/action games on a console that gets it right. there have been years and years of countless pc games that are better or more interesting and that, i think, is the disconnect...

Re:Biggest feature? (1)

AcidLacedPenguiN (835552) | more than 7 years ago | (#16644795)

wow, just wow. I can't believe you just likened Unreal Tournament to Halo. All they really have in common is having guns and playing in first person. I know this is basically just a shitting match but I found both the halo single player campaigns extremely compelling (well, at least when playing co-op with a friend)

RE: "first one wasn't that great"????? (1)

interactive_civilian (205158) | more than 7 years ago | (#16644941)

Tarlus said: I'd have to admit that the first one wasn't that great in single player mode

Wow. Simply, wow. I mean, to each his own, I guess, but I would have thought the opposite (halo 1 multiplayer not being that great).

Of course the reason I disagree is because of things like the Rockslide Megabattle and others [virgin.net]. Have you tried these? If not, I recommend trying them out. Even though they are not intentional parts of the gameplay designed by Bungie, they are some of the most intense single-player gameplay experiences I have ever had in a game.

It's a shame that they are not intentional and even the ability to do them disappeared in Halo 2, but here's to hoping that Bungie have noticed and will get this kind of gameplay back in Halo 3.

Re:Biggest feature? (1)

Chibi-Hikaru (969350) | more than 7 years ago | (#16645459)

Has anyone bothered to sit down with a friend and play co-op? I'm talking running through the levels together, none of this deathmatch shit. It's really quite fun and alot more enjoyable than playing the game one player. This is coming from someone who doesn't tend to like or play FPSes.

Re:Biggest feature? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16649481)

I agree completely. I wish more FPS would incorporate a co-op campaign mode...

Re:Biggest feature? (1)

ender- (42944) | more than 7 years ago | (#16653705)

Has anyone bothered to sit down with a friend and play co-op? I'm talking running through the levels together, none of this deathmatch shit. It's really quite fun and alot more enjoyable than playing the game one player. This is coming from someone who doesn't tend to like or play FPSes.

Well, no as a matter of fact I haven't. Mainly because I don't own an Xbox, and MS/Bungie was unkind enough to remove co-op play from the PC version. I remember hearing something about them not being able to handle co-op with PC's/Internet, which is funny, because I've played lots of Serious Sam: The Second Edition, and a small group of developers from Croatia managed to make co-op work quite nicely on PC's over the Internet.

And frankly I'm still bitter about the the whole MS/Bungie/Halo thing in the first place. It was going to be a great game, for PC's [Windows/Linux/Mac]. Instead it was turned into a mediocre console game, with a mediocre PC port that took 2 years to finally release. It was disappointing, so I opted to stick with Serious Sam TSE and UT2004. I'm not particularly looking forward to Halo 3.

Re:Biggest feature? (1)

Osty (16825) | more than 7 years ago | (#16647049)

I noticed that most of these improvements will appeal to the multiplayer crowd... which would make sense since Halo 2 also seemed to focus more attention on its multiplayer than on its single player campaign (and that shows because it was panned by critics for it).

The build-up for Halo 2 was the same way. Most previews were focused on multiplayer features because Bungie kept the single player story tightly under wraps (for example, nobody knew you played part of the game as someone other than Master Chief). I anticipate Halo 3 will be the same way. Lots of multiplayer information, but with a few holes where that info might give away the single player story, and as the game gets closer to releasing we'll get a few peeks at what's in store.

As for critics panning the single player, the biggest complaint by far was the lack of a real ending. I doubt that will happen again for Halo 3, since it's supposed to be the last in the Master Chief storyline (Bungie once said it'd be the last Halo, period, but I'm interpreting that as "last in the Master Chief/Cortana/Arbiter/Gravemind" story given the upcoming Halo Wars and other potential spin-offs). Sure, critics didn't like that the the single player story didn't spend as much time on Earth, or that they had to play as the Arbiter, but by and large the legitimate reviewers (ie, not some fanboy writing on his 1up blog) gave the story high marks except for the cliffhanger ending.

I'd have to admit that the first one wasn't that great in single player mode, and I never actually played it all the way through

The first one was great before and after the Library section. You just have to slog your way through the Library and get it over with. The game got much better once you were finally done with that section (and Bungie has gone on record as saying that the Library was crap).

Spartan Helmet (1)

Lostconfused (1019042) | more than 7 years ago | (#16644319)

Now i have to wonder about the quality of the said item. How much detail will it have and how accurate is the replica, its quality and the quality of materials used. A quality replica would probably cost more then $100 on its own, ok i am pulling this number out of my arse, but still its very likely that it will cost more then the game itself. Well at least i hope its a quality replica, i once got one of those FMA watches, it used plastic instead of glass to cover the watch face, and worst of all it had dozens of large air bubbles in the plastic, that was realy shoddy work and i cant believe they charged $50 for something thats worse quality then some goods at your average dollar store.

Re:Spartan Helmet (1)

Bieeanda (961632) | more than 7 years ago | (#16645183)

I was wondering the same thing, myself. If it's a solid piece of costume gear, you're probably looking at a release price comparable to the original Steel Battalion. More likely, it's a sheet of vacuum-formed plastic with a removable bottom or a solid lump the size of a keychain fob. There are plenty of Halo fans out there, some with more money than sense, but unusually bulky packaging doesn't enthuse retailers or the guys packing everything into crates for shipping.

4 DVDs vs Blu Ray (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16644399)

4 DVDs of "content". That's going to get the Sony fanboys excited - Microsoft's own games already can't fit on DVD9...

Of course, I assume that it's just bonus trash rather than game levels that's on the extra discs, but I don't think that'll stop the inevitable Nth round of the flamewars.

Four DVD's of content? (0)

GoNINzo (32266) | more than 7 years ago | (#16644897)

I really do not understand the people who say that DVD9 is big enough for games. Especially when we have releases like this. It's obvious that if there is space on the disc, the developers will find some use for it.

While printing multiple DVD's would be cheaper than making a single HD DVD, it is still aggravation for the players and the developers in the long term. The players will actually have to 'get up' from their computer to watch extras, for example. I know I get bothered having to switch cd's instead of installing off a single DVD on my computer, and it's usually sitting right next to me. What happens in a couple years when they start doing the multiple DVD's just for game play? We, as consumers, are generally lazy.

But I think it's 10x worse for the developers. They want to fit on a single DVD9 and get major pressure from the publishers to do so. They want to use the HD power of these devices, but if they are having to lossy compress material to make it fit, they might not have that option. This is especially true on any cut scene intensive game. While I truly believe in games that can be fun without major hardware, I wouldn't to limit a studio in doing whatever they want.

My best example of this might be Star Control 2. That game had incredible detail. Now, imagine if they took each one of the several thousand worlds on there and gave it 'life' in an HD format. It would be an incredible amount of space. Not to mention the possible full motion video you could introduce with each of the alien races. It would be a lot of data, and while procedural generated content seems to be rapidly becoming popular, it might not be good enough for a company's art department. And I would not want to limit someone's vision by a hardware constraint.

Most of this is grousing of an old man who yearns for an older era of great game play over graphics, but if you're going to do great graphics, at least give the people the tools for the job to make it easy for us lazy bastards. After all, I want my Gauntlet 12: Voyage to Change The DVD Again to be as great as the original, if they can make it.

Re:Four DVD's of content? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16645287)

Well sometimes to make these editions seem bigger or more "special" they spread them over more discs. The limited edition of MechAssault 2 comes on two discs but could easily fit on one. Same with the audio CD version of Pink Floyd's The Wall, it could easily fit on One CD but is spread over to for two reasons. One to make it seem more grand and two to make it seem worth the cost.

Re:Four DVD's of content? (1)

Goose42 (88624) | more than 7 years ago | (#16645923)

You're wrong about The Wall. That album is 81:12 long, and an audio CD can only hold (at an extreme maximum) 80 minutes. You'd have to do some incredibly complicated overburning that wouldn't work in most CD players in order to fit that album onto one disc.

Re:Four DVD's of content? (1)

BackwardHatClub (763903) | more than 7 years ago | (#16646981)

"You're wrong about The Wall. That album is 81:12 long, and an audio CD can only hold (at an extreme maximum) 80 minutes." Yeah but if you cut out all the worthless crap it'll easily fit ;)

Re:Four DVD's of content? (1)

XxtraLarGe (551297) | more than 7 years ago | (#16645875)

What happens in a couple years when they start doing the multiple DVD's just for game play? We, as consumers, are generally lazy.

This isn't anything new. Ever played FF VII or Oddworld 2?

Re:Four DVD's of content? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16646459)

I'm guessing the game itself is on 1 DVD. The rest is the HD videos from previous games, documentaries, etc... So it's still a non-issue IMO. One could argue that the HD videos are "game content", but I think developers should just use the in-game engine to make cut scenes anyway. Pre-rendered movies never look like the game you are playing and thus always look out of place and break the continuity of the game.

Re:Four DVD's of content? (1)

(H)elix1 (231155) | more than 7 years ago | (#16646827)

I really do not understand the people who say that DVD9 is big enough for games. Especially when we have releases like this. It's obvious that if there is space on the disc, the developers will find some use for it. While printing multiple DVD's would be cheaper than making a single HD DVD, it is still aggravation for the players and the developers in the long term

Multiple DVD's would only be an extra "disk in, disk out" on the install. It has been a long time since I've seen a game that did not put all the content on the absurdly large HDD and just use the CD for copy protection. By the time they start shipping games on HD DVD, do you think you could even buy a 250G HDD? As for the media itself, as long as it is going to be treated as a dongle, I'd just assume it was a little lower density / scratch resistant...

Re:Four DVD's of content? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16650369)

Multiple DVD's would only be an extra "disk in, disk out" on the install. It has been a long time since I've seen a game that did not put all the content on the absurdly large HDD

I thought the Xbox 360 didn't have a hard drive as standard?

Re:Four DVD's of content? (1)

atomicstrawberry (955148) | more than 7 years ago | (#16650993)

It is big enough. The three extra discs are special features stuff. One of them is apparently slated to be a 'making of' special video DVD, much like what was included with the Halo 2 collector's edition. The other two, from what I can make out, are a Red vs Blue video DVD, and a DVD with a pile of material from the other two games in the trilogy. You might argue that those last two could be combined (the first is to be included with the 'collector's edition' release), but these things cost a few cents to press, and it looks better to consumers as well. Three whole DVDs filled with special features.

Personally I don't think that the capacity problem is going to be an issue for at least another few years. Most games will be dual platform, and that implies you have to work to the lowest common denominator (X360). By the time developers really begin to chafe under the restrictions of a DVD9, it will be around about late 2008 / early 2009, and MS will be 9-12 months away from releasing their third console, which I imagine will have HD-DVD.

Halo 3 emerging?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16644971)

That'll take forever!!

Content is not a feature. (1)

Carbon Copied (909743) | more than 7 years ago | (#16645469)

A few new weapons, a new map, a vehicle that was meant to be in the previous game, is it enough just to say HALO 3 and expect fans to go into a flurry of hype?

Where's the innovation?

If you look at the marathon jump between HL1 and HL2, what Bungie are doing is pathetically lazy. If time is constraining them from doing anything truly different from previous games (which is highly dubious) then leave it a little while before you release something with the $50 price tag.

"What if you could save your own movies from Halo 3's single- and multiplayer gameplay and then rewatch them? In Halo 3, you can."

Great, something thats already available and expected in many games. Come on this is meant to be the 'NEXT GENERATION' of gaming, this stuff shouldn't even be being mentioned in comparison with actual developments.

"Halo 3 will have three retail SKUs: standard, collector's edition, and Legendary. Guess which one comes with a helmet and four discs of content?"

How is having extra shit to sell to people meant to get people excited about the game?

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=63596151 23408599084&q [google.co.uk]

Is this all there is needed to cause a sycophantic hysteria months, maybe even a year before the game is released?

The Spore, Supreme Commander, Crysis, Portal all even the ill fated Stalker all showed tremendous promise during previews. Hell most games claim to be REVOLUTIONISING the genre, but Halo 3 doesnt even seem to be trying to fool anyone.

This trend of meager sequels is worrying, together with micro transactions for maps, exclusive content etc. I would not be surprised if Halo 3 were to charge for a 'updates' that were mandatory to play online. These "features" for Halo 3 would not be out of place among free updates for multiplayer games such as Red orchestra and other game developers with a strong dedication to the online community.

I appreciate this is an early preview, but why does this mean only mediocre improvements must be shown. This probably seems more inflamatory than is my intention, and I guess if this is what people want to pay for its good that Bungie are providing it.

Re:Content is not a feature. (1)

theStorminMormon (883615) | more than 7 years ago | (#16647327)

Where's the innovation?

That's a really, really sad statement about what we expect from the gaming industry. Imagine a new album coming out from a band you like, and when you find out that it has guitar, bass, and drums you're like "oh great! screw this! I want some innovation!"

Since when did we measure entertainment by innovation? Are we tired of pianos now? Is it impossible to write new music for the acoustic guitar?

I mean just look at some of the stuff you want from them: Hell most games claim to be REVOLUTIONISING the genre, but Halo 3 doesnt even seem to be trying to fool anyone.

What kind of a medium expects to be "revolutionized" every time a new work comes out? Can you imagine the arrogance - and ignorance - it would take for every new punk album to "revolutionize" the genre? That's not sustainable, and it's not realistic, and it's not even a guarantee of good art. How do you rectify the interest in old-school gaming with this insatiable need for novel gameplay?

This trend of meager sequels is worrying,

Look, everyone knows there's a huge danger of losing the creativity with sequels. But we have one big reason to think that Bungie won't do that with Halo: the story's not finished. The problem with sequels, as with all episodic content, is that there's no overarching arch. You're supposed to tell the story as long as people will buy it, and that means you can't plan on developing characters and plot-lines over multiple episodes.

What I'm saying is this: innovation is good, but it isn't everything. Halo wasn't all that innovative. Halo 2 even less so. In terms of game play there was a good degree of refinement and polish, but the FPS game-play has been more or less consistent since Quake. Who are we kidding here? But that's not necessarily a problem. Movies have been more or less the same for decades. Sure, now we have a better special effects, but they still work the same way. Point the camera at some people, they act stuff out, and you watch it. And we *like* them.

What I want to see from Halo is not necessarily new gameplay. I mean toss in a few weapons, that's cool. What I expect from Halo 3 is the continuation - and completion - of one of the greatest stories ever told via video games. I'm not hear for new stuff, I'm here for stuff done well. I want good voice acting, good script, good pacing, good storyline. I want the gameplay to be enjoyable, but as long as you get that stuff right and don't screw anything up disastrously, I'm sure it will be a fantastic game.

Please stop seeing everything in terms of innovation. There are other metrics for quality.

-stormin

Re:Content is not a feature. (1)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 7 years ago | (#16648255)

That's a really, really sad statement about what we expect from the gaming industry. Imagine a new album coming out from a band you like, and when you find out that it has guitar, bass, and drums you're like "oh great! screw this! I want some innovation!"
If I buy the newest album from a band I like, and it sounds exactly the same as their previous album, I generally don't buy their next album. The best bands manage to make every album have its own distinctive sound.
For example, go listen to Audioslave's debut album and then listen to Out of Exile. If I scrambled the songs and played any given song from either album, you would be able to tell what album the song was on, with maybe one or two exceptions. Contrast this with the Foo Fighters: Although a good band, the sound on each album is pretty much the same. There isn't much of a reason to buy more than one album from them unless you're a really big fan.
How do you rectify the interest in old-school gaming with this insatiable need for novel gameplay?
Name me one person who would buy every single Pac-Man game if they all had the same gameplay as Pac-Man and Mrs. Pac-Man. Most interest in old-school gaming is via systems that provide multiple games, most of which are the revolutionizers. You rarely see Pac-Man, Mrs. Pac-Man, Generic Pac-Man Clone 33(there were quite a few clones of Pac-Man back when it was an innovation), and Pac-Man with slightly different graphics 28. You see Pac-Man, Galaga, Dig Dug, Pole Position, and a variety. You see very few imitators on those disks.
What I expect from Halo 3 is the continuation - and completion - of one of the greatest stories ever told via video games.
The Halo developers seem to concentrate more on multiplayer than single player. For the majority of the demographic that seems to be interested in the Halo series, the story is an afterthought.
Please stop seeing everything in terms of innovation. There are other metrics for quality.
In general, the more innovative the game, the higher the quality. The sort of people who think up innovative ideas about gameplay are the sort of people who do good gameplay. The sort of people who copy, are the sort of people who make sucky gameplay.
Notice how few people get excited about EA's latest copycat FPS. Notice how many people get excited about Portal.

Re:Content is not a feature. (1)

theStorminMormon (883615) | more than 7 years ago | (#16648583)

If I buy the newest album from a band I like, and it sounds exactly the same as their previous album, I generally don't buy their next album. The best bands manage to make every album have its own distinctive sound.

Yeah, exactly. So if the story (what you tell with the gameplay) was the same, that would be like the music being the same. But why should the gameplay (e.g. the instruments used to make the music) change?

and a variety. You see very few imitators on those disks.

You picked a ridiculous example. Tell me what the "story" is that is being told with Pac Man? In that case, you're "instrument" is a rock. Not to much to do with it. But I enjoy playing Master of Magic and Master of Orion - the originals. Text-based games still have a following. More diverse games have more diverse possibilities for what you can get out of their gameplay. There's no need to, for example, use the Unreal Engine once and then never again. Eventually you'll want an upgrade - but even then the old games will still have appeal. If someone made a killer FPS game (in terms of storyline) based on the original Quake engine: I'd buy it today.

The Halo developers seem to concentrate more on multiplayer than single player. For the majority of the demographic that seems to be interested in the Halo series, the story is an afterthought.

If you know anything about Bungie you know they care about story. Yes, with xbox they have had to put a lot more work into multiplayer. And that annoys me. But so far the story has not suffered. Some of the 1st person game play did suffer in Halo 2 as a result of multi-player emphasis. Legendary on Halo 2 was not as cool as legendary on Halo 1. I understand this. But so far they have not totally let me down, and I'm excited to see the rest of the story.

In general, the more innovative the game, the higher the quality. The sort of people who think up innovative ideas about gameplay are the sort of people who do good gameplay. The sort of people who copy, are the sort of people who make sucky gameplay.

You're making this statement at a point in time where "episodic gaming" has just started. So yeah, *so far* this is true, but I don't think it will be true for much longer. It's getting to expensive to keep up with next-gen graphics, and I'm tired of it. Tired of $500 vid cards and $600 consoles. I could care less if there are more polygons in the HL3 engine. I'd much rather see someone do something innovative in terms of STORY or PLOT or CHARACTER or THEME with HL2 then just innovate the gameplay for another mindless shooter with (gee whiz) more features.

Notice how few people get excited about EA's latest copycat FPS. Notice how many people get excited about Portal.

The problem with EAs sequels isn't lack of game play innovation: it's lack of innovation OR plot OR story, etc. If EA was putting out FPS games that were heavy on story, plot, character, etc they would be fun to play. In my opinion you're making the problem worse. Sure, Portal may have some new gadgetry, and nerds get excited about gadgetry, but if it doesn't have good writing either it will have no staying power and it will just be an endless cycle of waiting for the next "innovation" without ever realizing that the previous ones all offered nothing genuinely new.

-stormin

Re:Content is not a feature. (1)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 7 years ago | (#16651727)

Yeah, exactly. So if the story (what you tell with the gameplay) was the same, that would be like the music being the same. But why should the gameplay (e.g. the instruments used to make the music) change?
The story is more like the lyrics. I enjoy the lyrics too, but the same song with different lyrics is rarely seen except as a parody. The gameplay is the "sound" of the album, the general feeling, the way the instruments are played
It's getting to expensive to keep up with next-gen graphics, and I'm tired of it
Not really. When you take inflation into account the cost of the high end today isn't that far off from the cost of the high end in the past, and the average gaming computer is getting cheaper. It's just that things are getting better faster.
Tired of $500 vid cards and $600 consoles
Adjusted for inflation, the SNES would cost about $600. My whole computer costs barely over $500 and it plays HL2 perfectly fine.
I'd much rather see someone do something innovative in terms of STORY or PLOT or CHARACTER or THEME with HL2 then just innovate the gameplay for another mindless shooter with (gee whiz) more features.
If story's the only thing I wanted in a game, I'd turn off my computer monitor and either turn on the TV or go to a library. The goal of a game is to make the person playing the game have fun.
By the way--games aren't the source of innovation in story or plot and they probably never will be.
HL2 Episode One's main innovation actually is characterization--the AI character Alyx.
Theme? You do realize that HL2's thematic innovations over HL1--their fine attention to every little detail of the game--occurs precisely because the Source engine allows better attention to detail because it has better graphics support?
Sure, Portal may have some new gadgetry, and nerds get excited about gadgetry, but if it doesn't have good writing either it will have no staying power and it will just be an endless cycle of waiting for the next "innovation" without ever realizing that the previous ones all offered nothing genuinely new.
I can only replay for the story once or twice; the small amount of explicit storyline. Better gameplay can increase replayability much more than better story can.
Counter-Strike has no story whatsoever and Counter-Strike servers still generate more Internet traffic than the entire country of Italy. Whereas Final Fantasy has to keep pumping out sequels every 2 years because it's a storybased game.

Re:Content is not a feature. (1)

theStorminMormon (883615) | more than 7 years ago | (#16652769)

If story's the only thing I wanted in a game, I'd turn off my computer monitor and either turn on the TV or go to a library. The goal of a game is to make the person playing the game have fun.

This doesn't make any sense. What does innovation have to do with fun that story doesn't? I mean you say yourself that Counter-Strike is still fun after all these years: and yet does it need new gameplay every week? Every month? Every year? I thought you were the one complaining about attention to multi-player aspects, and yet that's an example of a fun game?

Look, if you don't care about story, fine. But I do. Which is why I think Half Life is a pretty stupid game. I'm almost through the first one and I've also played most of 2. I'm really disappointed by the lack of engaging story or characters I care about.

Oh yeah, and drop the BS about if I wanted to go a story I should do movie/library. Why? Because *you* don't like story in games?

I'm not saying the only reason to like games is story. All I'm saying is this: there's more to gaming than just innovation. If that's your only thing: fine. Whatever. There's no accounting for taste. But other people have more diverse ideas of what makes something fun.

-stormin

Re:Content is not a feature. (0, Flamebait)

PaganRitual (551879) | more than 7 years ago | (#16650357)

Where's the innovation?

We are talking about Halo here. What made you expect innovation in the third iteration?

Err.. "Frost Bite"? (1)

necro2607 (771790) | more than 7 years ago | (#16645523)

Hmm...

"The preview also introduces three new levels - Valhalla, High Ground and Snowbound, which are likened to Blood Gulch, Zanzibar and Frost Bite respectively"

What is Frost Bite (in relation to Halo, no dictionary.com links please)? I've been playing Halo 2 since it came out and I have never heard of this map... a search on google just comes up with more results of this exact same leaked Halo 3 information.

Re:Err.. "Frost Bite"? (1)

Chosen Reject (842143) | more than 7 years ago | (#16645671)

I don't know but I'm unstoppable in Bombing Run on Bifrost in UT2003. It has to be UT2k3. UT2k4 slows the teleporter down way too much.

Bungie copies Epic? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16645847)

Frostbite is a UT2004 map, one of the original Onslaught maps.
Not a particularly good one (really intense but initially rushing ensures you eventually win it), so I don't know why Bungie would copy it. It'd be funny though, the (pre-Editor's Choice pack) vehicle set in UT2004 was pretty clearly copied from Halo.

Maybe they're just referring to both being snowy, look at the names...

Re:Bungie copies Epic? (1)

necro2607 (771790) | more than 7 years ago | (#16645999)

Ahh, I'd guess then that the writer is saying that to give us a reference we're likely to know about (a UT2k4 map) as opposed to just saying "there's lots of snow and it's cool and stuff"...

Re:Bungie copies Epic? (1)

Osty (16825) | more than 7 years ago | (#16646837)

Not a particularly good one (really intense but initially rushing ensures you eventually win it), so I don't know why Bungie would copy it. It'd be funny though, the (pre-Editor's Choice pack) vehicle set in UT2004 was pretty clearly copied from Halo.

I assumed they meant "Sidewinder", the big snowy map from Halo 1, but got confused.

likelihood of these weapons (1)

necro2607 (771790) | more than 7 years ago | (#16645921)

Is it just me or do some of the things mentioned in this article seem pretty questionable? I REALLY doubt Bungie would make a gun called the "Man Cannon", or something as painfuly unoriginal as a nail grenade. I'm pretty damn sure that 500 years from now we'll have more advanced weapons than nails, and I'm pretty damn sure that Bungie, being the ultra-creative people they are, would feel the same way.

Not only that, but considering Bungie brought us such unique games as Myth [wikipedia.org] (which was so original it spawned the new game genre "real-time tactical"), Oni [wikipedia.org], and most notably, Marathon [wikipedia.org], I have a lot of trouble believing that Bungie would have something so generic as a nail grenade in their insanely anticipated new game...

Re:likelihood of these weapons (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16646457)

I dunno, somehow the nail grenade sounds very painful.

Besides, nails are useful. They're like wheels, so fundamental that in the entire course of human history we have yet to replace them. Not to mention these guys are still using bullets. Bullets! It's the future! Why do only the aliens have lasers?

Damn lazy scientists!

Re:likelihood of these weapons (1)

necro2607 (771790) | more than 7 years ago | (#16648699)

Well that's just the thing - in 2552 we apparently have the ability to travel through space at faster-than-light speeds, but.... nail grenades??!

Re:likelihood of these weapons (1)

MrCopilot (871878) | more than 7 years ago | (#16646797)

I have a lot of trouble believing that Bungie would have something so generic as a nail grenade in their insanely anticipated new game...

But needle guns, and grenades are original?

I'm pretty damn sure that 500 years from now we'll have more advanced weapons than nails

Yeah I love those futuristic Assault rifles.

Re:likelihood of these weapons (1)

TheDreadSlashdotterD (966361) | more than 7 years ago | (#16646813)

You're right. In the future we'll have lightsabers and blasters and all sorts of fun stuff. No more of this chemical based projectile goodness.

Taking nails too literally... (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 7 years ago | (#16648223)

Can you honestly see no use in the future for a grenade that spreads razor sharp particles (possibly with edges on a nanotech scale) is of no use even in the distant future?

Re:Taking nails too literally... (1)

necro2607 (771790) | more than 7 years ago | (#16648777)

Sure, sure, but in that case it's some kind of high tech shrapnel engineered specifically for that task, not just a handful of carpenters' nails glued to the outside of a grenade... Of course I guess since the only description we got was "nail grenade", that could mean exactly what you mentioned, especially since it's translated from Swedish with questionable accuracy... ;)

helmet FTW (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16645997)

tehehe a Spartan helmet! neato

emerged? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16646807)

By the time I finish emerging Halo 3, Halo 6 would be out.

No gentoo builds Microsoft, please give us binaries.

special edition (1)

rpillala (583965) | more than 7 years ago | (#16650493)

The phrase "super-special helmet edition" made me think the helmet was for a special person, not that the edition was special.

I teach school so I'm certainly sensitive to some people's special needs, but still an edition with a helmet is funny.

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