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293 comments

fp (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16682077)

Why is this important? Wouldn't most servers get their time from a central time server, and wouldn't this be that time server's problem?

Re:fp (2, Insightful)

Loconut1389 (455297) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682103)

Except that it'll get its time as GMT and it still has to make the decision about how much to offset it. A simple rules update for linux and windows should take care of a lot of the problem- but many custom apps will have to be altered or potentially produce incorrect times. I imagine .NET will help some of this in the windows world as it'll just use the underlying routines, which can be updated once by an MS update.

I imagine it'll be a headache, but things generally wont come to a screeching halt.

Re:fp (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682123)

A lot of electronic devices that can re-adjust the time are hard-coded to change time at the same dates year in and year out. If Daylight Savings Time is extended one way or another, these devices won't display time correctly. Seems like a great conspiracy to get people to upgrade their electronics when they really don't need to.

Re:fp (1)

fdrebin (846000) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682201)

Seems like a great conspiracy to get people to upgrade their electronics when they really don't need to.
I think it's more likely plain old cluelessness/thoughtlessness etc.

/F

Re:fp (1)

JustOK (667959) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682817)

Time doesn't change on the same dates year after year. See this [webexhibits.org] short list.

Re:fp (1)

mollymoo (202721) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683427)

Time doesn't change on the same dates year after year.

The dates may change each year, but the rules used to pick the dates haven't changed for a long time. It's those rules which are hard-coded into devices and they're changing them. Specifically, they're changing 'first Sunday in April' to 'second Sunday in March' and 'last Sunday in October' to 'first Sunday in November'.

I vote for no-DST and use GMT (4, Insightful)

Loconut1389 (455297) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682083)

Personally, I hate daylight savings time and see no need for it. Just get up earlier or later as needed. Further, I don't see why we can't just all use GMT. So you get up at 08:00 and I get up at 21:00, big deal.

Re:I vote for no-DST and use GMT (2, Funny)

porkThreeWays (895269) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682153)

Great idea! Hey, while you're at it why don't you get America to use the metric system too.

Re:I vote for no-DST and use GMT (3, Insightful)

Loconut1389 (455297) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682505)

I'd vote for that too- they've been teaching it in schools here for at least 20 years. Maybe not flip the switch overnight, but start putting highway signs in both on every sign (not just a few every hundred miles on major highways)- then people will have a real feel for how fast 100km/h is and how long it takes them to go 40km to work. Once people 'feel' the distances/measurements, it'll be much easier.

Re:I vote for no-DST and use GMT (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16682549)

Highway signs were in both miles and kilometers when I was a kid (early eighties). It was a big joke because instead of learning it, everyone just ignored it. The reason you only see them every few hundred miles now is because they've been slowly getting replaced with new signs that only have miles. If you really wanted this to work, you'd have to completely replace the signs one by one with kilometers only.

Re:I vote for no-DST and use GMT (1)

Doogie5526 (737968) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682907)

What about making the KPH larger and the MPH smaller on the sign? Back home, on a major highway, they switched exits from numbers to mile markers a couple years ago and that's what they did. Old exit numbers were small, new ones were big. It made it easier for people who knew "To get to the park, get off on exit 21."

Re:I vote for no-DST and use GMT (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682175)

America should be using metrics anyway. :P

Re:I vote for no-DST and use GMT (1)

kfg (145172) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682419)

I don't see why we can't just all use GMT.

Because when you say 12:00 I know you mean noon, no matter where in the world you are.

If you ever leave the bunker and go out in the big blue room (or even the big black one) you'll discover that times still have real, physical meaning. Like any good techie use whatever reference or system of units that is most appropriate for the problem at hand.

KFG

Re:I vote for no-DST and use GMT (1)

BoberFett (127537) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682523)

Yeah, times have real, physical meaning. Unless you live in some place that doesn't do daylight savings. Arizona does not observe daylight savings. Or are in some weird time zone. Kathmandu is a 15 minute time zone instead of a full hour. Or live on the edge of a time zone. I've heard rumors of a bar in Florida that is somehow in two separate time zones. When it's closing time on the east coast, people pick up their drinks and move to the other side of the bar where they continue to drink for another hour.

What a joke.

No, times and time zones are arbitrary and have no real meaning. I've often thought the world should just use GMT. Wouldn't it be nice if you would just know what hours a business was open without having to calculate time zone differences, and then try to remember what the rules are for that timezone? I just recently missed a new episode of a TV show I enjoy because the time I saw was given in EST instead of CST. (Fortunately they rerun that show several times) Times only have a meaning because we give them one. If the country can adjust to a new daylight savings schedule, I'm sure we could adjust to a decent universal time system.

Re:I vote for no-DST and use GMT (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16682867)

times and time zones are arbitrary and have no real meaning
As long as they're within 3h of mean solar time, timezones have real, physical meaning.

Re:I vote for no-DST and use GMT (1)

Loonacy (459630) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682935)

Even if you moved everything to GMT, you'd still have to account for geographical locations. Bars would have to close at the equivalent of 1AM (or whatever the law is where you are) meaning your bar in Florida would still likely have 2 different closing times for each half. Time zones won't just "go away" if everyone started using GMT, because time zones DO have real meaning. Or are you implying the sun would miraculously rise at 06:00GMT everywhere in the world?

Re:I vote for no-DST and use GMT (1)

Loconut1389 (455297) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682565)

ok- so you know I mean noon, but then you still may not know exactly when that is depending on whether that state observes DST or what part of the state they're in for states that are in more than one timezone. Basically, wherever you are in the world, you still need to know the offset. The confusing part about DST is, like here in Iowa, we're -5 GMT for some of the year and -6 the rest. Most of the time, I don't remember whether DST means we're -5 or if it means we're -6. Restated- I know our time just changed, but I don't know if we're now -in- daylight savings or we just got -off- daylight savings. Sure, I could google it, but I don't just know offhand. IMHO, it'd be much easier if you just knew that your friend around the globe gets up at 23:00 and goes to bed at 13:00. Most of the time, you need to know that anyway so that you don't wake someone up. What does 'noon' have to do with anything? Just ask when they have their lunch hour, unless you're planning on having a duel at high noon (which isn't at precisely 12 by the clock anyway).

Re:I vote for no-DST and use GMT (1)

kfg (145172) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682757)

. . .your friend around the globe. . .

How many radians apart are we?

KFG

Re:I vote for no-DST and use GMT (1)

fbartho (840012) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683529)

not enough apparently. ;)

Re:I vote for no-DST and use GMT (1)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682571)

Because when you say 12:00 I know you mean noon, no matter where in the world you are.
Only in 12-hour time. This ambiguity is why my watch is set to 24-hour military time even though the closest to the military I plan to get is watching SG-1.

Re:I vote for no-DST and use GMT (1)

kfg (145172) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682795)

Only in 12-hour time.

I knew you'd show up. :)

KFG

Re:I vote for no-DST and use GMT (1)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682945)

Glad to be of service. :)

Re:I vote for no-DST and use GMT (1)

cloricus (691063) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683323)

Erm since when does the military own 24 hour time? They use it to make sure people aren't idiots and mistake timings though the system of time itself comes from Europe and really has nothing to do with any army much like the mills system.

Re:I vote for no-DST and use GMT (1)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683399)

They don't own it but you rarely see 24-hour time in the United States outside of the military.

Re:I vote for no-DST and use GMT (1)

WhatAmIDoingHere (742870) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683359)

Instead of 12:00 it would be 1200 hours. It's twelve either way.

Re:I vote for no-DST and use GMT (1)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683483)

12:00 in a 12-hour system can mean either midnight or noon. In a 24-hour system it's always noon.

Re:I vote for no-DST and use GMT (1)

ereshiere (945922) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682485)

Are you a vampire?

Re:I vote for no-DST and use GMT (3, Insightful)

MeanMF (631837) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682835)

You'd still have to know more or less what time zone other people are in...And I don't think the Japanese, Australians, Californians, etc. would appreciate their normal business hours spanning two days.

Re:I vote for no-DST and use GMT (4, Insightful)

aduzik (705453) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682845)

Quick: the current time is 00:30 -- is it morning, midday, or night where I live? If I open my business at 12:00 and close at 22:00, what kind of business do I most likely own: a coffee shop/lunch place, a retail store or a restaurant? If I open at 16:00 and close at 02:00, can you make a sign that (in a non-confusing way) makes it obvious to my customers that, while I open on Monday and stay open continuously until Tuesday, that I'm actually only open for ten hours?

Now what if I tell you it's 6:30 PM local time? I don't even have to tell you where I live, do I? You would know that it's about dinnertime here, regardless of where "here" is.

I live in the states, but the time is 00:30 UTC everywhere right now. If I call my grandma in Australia, is she going to say, "ugh! Why did you call me at 00:30?" or is she going to say, "oh, you picked a perfect time to call." (My grandma does, in fact, talk like that, by the way.)

The point of time zones and "local time" is that it provides *context*. Wednesday is going to turn into Thursday (or already has) in the middle of the night -- for everybody. With UTC, it would be Thursday here in most of the US already. So while it may be a pain to have to adjust for local time in other localities, at least you'll know about what time of day it is there. Unless you happen to live in Greenwich, or maybe one or two time zones in either direction, using UTC would be nothing but a pain in the ass. Do you really think it would make sense for me to leave for work on Sunday "evening" and get home on Monday "morning" -- to say nothing about how lame New Year's Eve parties would be in most of the world. (In Eastern Europe and Asia, you'd enjoy a celebratory cup of joe first thing in the morning. How fun.)

Re:I vote for no-DST and use GMT (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16682891)

Great idea! I came up with the same idea a few years ago. Seriously! My wife likes it too, but we realize there is a lot of momentum for the current system. Eliminate time zones and DST!

Re:I vote for no-DST and use GMT (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16683077)

LOL. You obviously lack the intelligence to understand the consequences of something like that.

Hey, how about this. Here where I live I will call tomatoes oranges and you call them apples where you live.

Re:I vote for no-DST and use GMT (1)

hal2814 (725639) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683187)

I LOVE Daylight Saving Time. I'd love even more to not need it but I have an 8AM - 5PM job. As long as that remains the case, I'll take going to work while it's still dark over going home at dusk.

As an anecdotal story, I used to drive to work going East. Starting early fall, the sun would be in my eyes every morning. Then it would finally be dark my whole commute when DST would end and put the sun right back in my eyes!

I sure am! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16682111)

I got my time changing fingers all ready and I am standing by to press the "time" button and the "hour" button on my digital clock.

Time for a new alarm clock (1)

DaveM753 (844913) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682113)

My alarm clock automatically switches to/from DST on the prescribed date. However, with those dates now changed, not only will it fail to switch at the NEW dates, but it will continue to switch at the OLD dates. So, I have to get a new alarm clock. Shame, too...my last alarm clock worked great for nearly 20 years. But the one I have now will get replaced after only 2 years.

Damn gov't. Haven't they learned that you shouldn't play with time unless you use a DeLorean?

Re:Time for a new alarm clock (1)

networkBoy (774728) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682159)

My current alarm clock (a sharper image model) shifted one hour in the wrong direction on the last time change :-(
Anyone else have that issue?
-nB

Re:Time for a new alarm clock (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16682293)

Well, Dubya, I guess that thar' pertikular symptom means you started her out in the wrong mode when yuz set the time, whaddythank?

Re:Time for a new alarm clock (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16682477)

My cell phone shifted a day late. Even shifted back when I manually changed it on Sunday.

Re:Time for a new alarm clock (1)

jrmcferren (935335) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683037)

I had a clock shift three hours instead of one, now is that odd or what?

Time for a new ATOMIC alarm clock (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16682197)

I'd think that one could turn DST off, and have the NIST automatically make the changes.

Re:Time for a new alarm clock (1)

SigNuZX728 (635311) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682311)

Surely you can turn off the DST setting on the clock? Or do they just not sell that particular model in Indiana and Arizona?

Re:Time for a new alarm clock (1)

DrData99 (916924) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682349)

Well I just got a watch that auto switches also. But rather than discard it I will just change the timezone for that month. As the other post stated, it is all formatting...

Re:Time for a new alarm clock (1)

EvanED (569694) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682495)

Um, can't you just change the time yourself?

None of my clocks (except the computer) adjust the time at all when it's time to switch. I have to do it manually. You'd have to do it four times a year instead of two, but big deal? It takes what, 30 seconds to go all the way around? Even four times a year, that's a whopping 0.000095% of your time.

Over in the islands... (1)

snuf23 (182335) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682117)

We don't care about how you silly mainlanders play with your clocks.

Aloha!

Pfft. (1)

T-Ranger (10520) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682119)

Its just formatting.

The only time that matters is seconds since Jan 1, 1970. Actual seconds. Not extra (or fewer) seconds to keep time nerds happy "reconciling" time with some unperdictable-on-the-scale-required, obsolete, phscial process that matters not at all. All that is just polish. And pointless polish at that.

Re:Pfft. (2, Interesting)

SpaceLifeForm (228190) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682271)

What is your solution to 03:14:07 January 19, 2038 UTC?

Re:Pfft. (1)

Threni (635302) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682323)

> What is your solution to 03:14:07 January 19, 2038 UTC?

Presumably the same as his solution to 00:04:15 January 01, 1970 UTC - use a larger datatype.

Re:Pfft. (1)

Creepy Crawler (680178) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682327)

Well, add a 32bit number that keeps track of how many epochs have passed.

03:14:07 Jan 19, 2038 UTC = 00:00:00:01 00:00:00:00

Or is 2^32 epochs not big enough? ;-D

Re:Pfft. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16682607)

That's the same as making the timestamp one 64-bit number and just incrementing, as long as you interpret the lower 32 bits as the time since the last epoch and the high-order 32 bits as the number of epochs.

Re:Pfft. (1)

Ant P. (974313) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682329)

Easy; just type "long" twice in the code instead of once.

Re:Pfft. (1)

cortana (588495) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682541)

You should be using time_t...

Re:Pfft. (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683435)

Of course, Ant P. was making a recommendation to the authors of implementations of <time.h>.

Re:Pfft. (1)

0racle (667029) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682489)

Who cares, the world is going to end in 2012.

Re:Pfft. (2, Insightful)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682605)

64-bit computers. :)

Re:Pfft. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16682903)

Unsigned?

Then let our kids worry about it.

Re:Pfft. (2)

Trogre (513942) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683065)

03:14:08 January 19, 2038 UTC, shortly followed by 03:14:09 January 19, 2038 UTC.

Honestly, there's no good excuse for anyone not using at least 64-bit integers to represent unix time these days, yes even on 32-bit architectures.

two words (1)

cliveholloway (132299) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683487)

Legacy Code.

Your argument could just as easily have been, "Honestly, there's no good excuse for anyone not using 4 digits to represent years these days, yes even on MS DOS", 10 years ago.

You're making the same assumption that people made in the seventies. The "Nothing that runs today will still be in use in 2000" brigade. They were proved so right, weren't they? All those expensive mainframes? Phht, they'll be dead in 30 years.

Re:Pfft. (1)

chris_eineke (634570) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683381)

signed long long

Re:Pfft. (1)

Marc_Hawke (130338) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682299)

Wouldn't that be nice.

We store all our times in seconds from 1970, just like you suggest. However, the end users don't seem to like looking at them, so we convert it to their timezone. If we don't switch with the their watches, then even though we're storing the right time, it LOOKS wrong to them.

We've finally, (sheesh) switched to using OS calls for all our time conversion stuff. So...the answer to broken times is just 'patch your OS.' It's been a nice shift of responsibility.

For our clients (law enforcement) 1 hour means a big deal, "Where you you on the night of the 5th at what might have been 5:30...but maybe not?" and so this is a big deal. We would be SO HAPPY! if they just ditched the whole DST thing instead of screwing it up. They should just expand it another 2 months on each side, and we'd be good.

Re:Pfft. (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682391)

If there's to be an arbitrary standard, god damn it, it'll be my arbitrary standard.

Re:Pfft. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16682625)

The only time that matters is seconds since Jan 1, 1970.

Seconds since Jan 1, 1970 where?

Y2K a joke?!?! (5, Insightful)

NaugaHunter (639364) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682131)

Go to hell. A lot of people put a lot of work into resolving a real problem. We'd sure as hell have heard about it if we hadn't.

One of those damned if you do, damned if you don't things I guess.

Re:Y2K a joke?!?! (1)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682193)

We're the Casandras of the modern age.

Don't complain -- make him a foe! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16682281)

If you are really offended by the submitter's ignorance or ungrateful nature, don't just post an angry message. Make him a foe. Here, I've made it easy for you. Just click on this link [slashdot.org] , select "Foe", and hit the "Yup, I'm positive" button. Don't simply complain -- vote!

BTW, this advice is useful for next week as well.

Re:Y2K a joke?!?! (2, Insightful)

pla (258480) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682841)

Go to hell. A lot of people put a lot of work into resolving a real problem. We'd sure as hell have heard about it if we hadn't.

I think you meant to phrase that as "A lot of obsolete geeks got to put in a hell of a lot of billable hours as a result of Y2K". Easy mistake, "resolving a problem" to "made a fuckload of cash for babysitting a mainframe". No harm done, eh? ;-)

Use GMT (1)

fdrebin (846000) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682155)

In various past implementations I've been involved in, the teams I've worked on have generally decided to use GMT as a base, and convert to the locale using the local OS system features. By this I mean all dates/times were stored GMT, and converted to/from local time only when interacting with end users etc..
This was on Linux and/or Solaris.

Certainly this isn't a solution for all cases, but from the application development side it was relatively easy, and very stable. Assuming the OS handles the time change properly, of course...

/F

Re:Use GMT (1)

Iamthefallen (523816) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682303)

Unfortunately most OSes or platforms only have one definition for when DST occurs. Meaning, if you need to convert a historical, or future date to GMT and back, you're going to have issues.

Try it now, see when your computer tells you DST occured in 1980, 1970, 1960. It'll most likely be wrong.

Re:Use GMT (2, Insightful)

Marc_Hawke (130338) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682387)

Indiana switched this year.

Indiana has historically had 2 timezones. Part of it was Eastern, and part of it didn't change. They changed this year to all be on Eastern time. (wrong choice) A lot of our customer read that news and changed the timezone on their servers to Eastern. All of their historical data got screwed up.

The REAL fix was to apply an OS patch and keep in the same Time-zone they've been in. The OS patch changed that TZ file to understand that previous to a certain date the timezone behaved differently. That's going to need to happend for all the timezone definition files with this new law.

Unfortunately...that means even if they DID get rid of daylight savings time, the whole history of how it has changed through the ages would need to be contained within those TZ definitions.

Incidentally, changing the timezone value on a server is actually one of the worst things you can do with for our particular software.

Re:Use GMT (1)

heck (609097) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682617)

Indiana has historically had 2 timezones. Part of it was Eastern, and part of it didn't change. They changed this year to all be on Eastern time.

Indiana had THREE time zones. Most of the state followed Eastern Standard (no Daylight Savings Time); parts of the state were Eastern but used DST (because they were near Cincinnati or other areas that followed DST); and parts of the state were Central following Daylight Savings Time (areas near Chicago or along the Illinois border)

And the state is still screwed up. The whole state now follows DST, but parts of the state are Central and parts are Eastern.

We love Mitch.

Re:Use GMT (0)

Creepy Crawler (680178) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682961)

---We love Mitch.

Erm, no we dont.

Re:Use GMT (1)

19thNervousBreakdown (768619) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682801)

Your software is poorly written then. Dates should be stored in GMT and only converted to local time for display or interaction with other poorly written software. Of course, on Windows, that includes the OS, but failing to compensate for that is just cutting corners. Fix it!

Re:Use GMT (1)

Marc_Hawke (130338) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683067)

You'd like to think that wouldn't you. ;)

It's actually not the software's fault, but rather the servers. We'll use Indiana as an example.
(although, from the other reply, I guess an incorrect example.)

Lets say you live in part of Indiana that used to not change Timezones (you stayed always in Central). You enter in a time 'June 7:00am'. That gets converted to GMT (-7 hours because of DST) and stored as 00:00. When you want to look at it, it adds the 7 back on and you see it as 7:00.

Now, change the timezone to ACTUALLY be Central that does observer DST. Ooops. The software sees the "June" figures it needs to account for DST, and only adds 6 hours and displays 6:00CDT.

Now, if you had actually changed time zones. (Like moved to New York or something) It would display 7:00EDT, and it would be correct. But you didn't. You are still in the same place, and the software has no way of knowing that entry was added while you were in a different Timezone.

Well..actually it does...but only if it's contained in the TimeZone definition file....So, you can change the definition of the Timezone you're in, but you can't change the Timezone you're in without screwing up the times in the database.

(There are other problems...like if they run the server in the wrong timezone for a while...then switch the zone and then adjust the clock so it seems right....but that's just user-err.)

Re:Use GMT (1)

cortana (588495) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682575)

s/most OSes/broken OSes/

since when was... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16682165)

...Y2K a joke? No, your opinion of that is an uninformed joke. Billions of lines of code had to be audited and fixed,all over the planet, if they hadn't been, it would have sucked really bad. Really bad. As late as 1999 a huge amount was still *not fixed* and it was a race to the wire for a lot of companies and governments. I even had a talk with my state's main remediation contractor, he was very concerned over it and is/was by no means some raw noob coder.

It won't affect me. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16682167)

I live in Arizona

Y2K a joke? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16682173)

You stupid fucking moron, Y2K wasn't a problem because we tested and fixed the main problems.

Missing metric time from my uncorrelated life. (1)

Kell Bengal (711123) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682203)

I'd not be surprised if there's resistance to the idea of changing time. People are strange in a way. It's of great importance that people stick with something they know, and are comfortable with. Just so, too, when leap years were introduced people were afraid of losing days off their lives because they believed that the date of their death was set. Also, take metric time - it never had a chance in hell because it was so different to what everyone was used to that it was effectively alien (even though, on some levels it makes a great deal of sense). I, personally, have no problem with global time completely disjoint from the location in which I live, so long as it's GMT. As it is, my sleeping patterns already have no correlation with the actual time of day.

Why bother? (1)

spaceyhackerlady (462530) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682279)

I still wonder why we bother with DST. At this latitude (49 north) the summers are plenty light anyway (latest sunset about 2100 PDT, still light after 2200), and the winters are dark (earliest sunset about 1600 PST), no matter what we do. It's even more pronounced the further north you go.

I agree with others: Y2K wasn't a joke. There were real issues, but these were identified and resolved ahead of time. It only looked like an anticlimax. It wasn't.

...laura, who babysat computers and satellites the evening of 31 December 1999

No problem (1)

overshoot (39700) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682339)

I just set an alarm to remind me when people in various parts of the world play with their clocks.

One for each -- Europe, the East Coast of the USA, etc. I've never had to worry about Australia, though -- do they play with clocks down there or do they have better things to do?

Re:No problem (1)

Kris_J (10111) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682441)

I've never had to worry about Australia, though -- do they play with clocks down there or do they have better things to do?
As it happens we do, well most states do. Moreover, Western Australia is currently going insane [abc.net.au] . A bill is currently being debated as to whether or not a "trial" daylight savings thing is started on the 3rd of December this year . A month to go and we don't even know if it's going to happen yet. It's going to be a freaking nightmare.

A tip from Arizona (1)

overshoot (39700) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682535)

Once upon a time, a bunch of clueless types from the East persuaded the Legislature to adopt summer time here. The popular response was so one-sided that the first thing they did when they reconvened in the fall was revoke it.

Now, when someone tells us about how wonderful it is to crank the clocks forward one hour, we get all gushy about it and tell them that twelve must be even better. Moonlight Savings Time is a wonderful idea when your summer temps regularly run above 45C and the only decent time of day is around dawn.

Like I need to have that be 0300 instead of 0400. They can stuff it.

Re:No problem (1)

ultracool (883965) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682681)

Some parts of Australia don't have daylight savings due to too much interference with farming.

my last employer (1)

stoolpigeon (454276) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682543)

is using a time and attendance system that i wrote and next year, they are going to find out that it needs to be fixed for the people who log in from the chicago office (the server is in arizona-- they'll be o.k.)

It's a real pain in the... (1)

Acer500 (846698) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682583)

Well, for those of us using Windows stuff (hopefully for nothing important :) ), Microsoft has a tool called tzedit which you can use to specify a custom timezone/edit a timezone, so you can specify daylight savings time.

Then you have to export the registry keys and deploy them to all relevant computers (I used group policies).

Here's the relevant example for my country (which is entirely inconsistent in its use of DST), just replace Uruguay with whatever country you're in:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/886775 [microsoft.com]

My vote goes to..... (2, Informative)

bernywork (57298) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682599)

It's only the US, who cares?

Re:My vote goes to..... (1)

bernywork (57298) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682629)

Flame retardant suit.... Check!
Athletic Cup..... Check!

Alright... Bring it on!

Halloween (1, Interesting)

taniwha (70410) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682603)

Sadly this will push the change back past halloween leaving the kids wandering the streets in the light and stealing a lot of the magic of the celebration

If I didn't have my tinfoil hat on I'd think it was part of a plan from the religious right to do away with it

Re:Halloween (1)

Bastian (66383) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683073)

A lot of municipalities have rules about trick-or-treating, and a common one is that it has to stop at sundown.

I have a feeling one of the industries that sent lobbyists for this is the candy industry, since it means they'll get an extra hour of trick-or-treating in the places that do have ordinances about it.

Re:Halloween (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16683089)

actually, this may make it better for the little ones - quite a few parents with kids young enough to be escorted trick or treating insist on being home before dark. now those kids will trick or treat longer.

DST in China? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16682779)

They would vote on something like this in China...

http://app.beijing.gov.cn/beijingtv/doindex.jsp?id =6 [beijing.gov.cn]

:)

Time change is embedded in millions of devices (1)

rbanzai (596355) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682873)

The daylight saving time is embedded in millions of devices/systems. An example would be the elevator system in my office building. It's used to control access times for secured floors. There is no patch for this, the control system will have to be completely replaced.

Our phone system has the change encoded. It will require a full software upgrade to fix this.

So... it's a bummer!

Re:Time change is embedded in millions of devices (1)

Waffle Iron (339739) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683281)

All I can say is that the designers of those systems are incredibly stupid. The transition dates have been changed many times since DST was first introduced, and will undoubtedly be changed again. They also vary by state and region. Hard programming the dates is just silly.

DST is great (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16682921)

As someone who used to live in Japan and was tired of the sun waking me up at 4AM, I for one welcome our new extended daylight savings overlords.

Consumer annoyance. (1)

mophab (137737) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682931)

I know there will be lots of consumer appliences such as VCRs and Clock radios that currently know when daylight savings time is and will either be wrong for some weeks in the spring and fall or have to be changed 4 times a year.

Unix/Linux should be fine as long as you update your timezone files appropriately.

And there may be some apps and/or websites that may have problems, but I expect the consumer appliences will have the most problems exactly because they won't get updated even if they could be.

Other Nations Following Suit? (1)

AikonMGB (1013995) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682967)

I haven't been keeping up with this, so please don't bite.. I gather that this has bene passed in the U.S., but are any other nations planning on following suit? I have to say I agree with many of the posters above in that the whole concept of DST is silly.. I don't need the sun to rise at precisely 6:47am for my day to be right.. In fact, I'm already off-kilter since I'm much more comfortable with a 25 or 26 hour day (left to my own devices, I go to bed a few hours later than the previous night, and thus wake up a few hours later as well).

Ideally I'd like a move to a global standard time, such as GMT, but I'd even be happy with time-zones.. Just don't change the hour halfway through the year!

Aikon-

Why do I care? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16682975)

Yes, you're right! This could be horrible! Nobody, I mean NOBODY, runs without Daylight Savings! If people don't change due to Daylight savings, everything will fall apart! Nobody ignores daylight savings without HUGE technical repurcussions!

Plenty of people still do it manually. They won't care. It's easy enough to override that extra hour on computers, or tell them not to auto-flip.

I fail to see the major issue here, and DEFINITELY fail to see the correlation to Y2K.

Looking forward to it (1)

Belgand (14099) | more than 7 years ago | (#16682983)

I have to say that I'm greatly anticipating this. After just getting out of daylight savings time and having to deal with the depressing, irritating new time where everything gets dark far too early and I'm constantly failing to properly estimate the time I wish we'd stick with the earlier, DST time year-round.

Then again I also think that times should be shifted by 6 hours making midnight 6 PM, dawn (roughly) 1 AM noon 6 AM and dusk 12 AM (12 should be the end of a time section, not the beginning, it's amazingly counter-intuitive).

Of course the issue remains: should time be localized to where the sun is in one particular place (Zulu time) or should everyone use GMT?

Daylight savings changes isn't a big deal (3, Informative)

zsau (266209) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683049)

Changes to daylight savings time start and end times are hardly a big deal. In Australia it happens all the time. Just this year, daylight savings time was extended by a week in March, and no planes fell out of the sky. About half the computers I used updated and showed the real time, and the other half (including some apparently independent clocks that were set by some remote mechanism) switched back early and were an hour slow. Everyone coped just fine.

Most people know what hour it is anyway, so it's only important computer systems that matter. And if Microsoft can have a patch for two states and one territory in a relatively small country, then they can have a patch for the vast majority of their home country...

Absolutely nothing to worry about. Just enjoy the extra daylight in the evening!

Not a problem for Windows users. (1)

Kaenneth (82978) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683205)

I don't expect there will be any issues for Windows PC's, as long as they are on the current version, which at that time will be Vista.

I'd like to see... (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683433)

10 minute intervals of change, that way everybody can see the sun rise at the prescribed "optimal" time within 10 minutes instead of a whole hour. We could do it by locality, county, and state. Heck, every town could chose their own implementation to match local custom and maximize efficiency. It will be a power and labor saving coup!

[/bizzaro politicians world]

I'd be happy to ditch the whole thing. For those of you who complain about skipping DST and having the sun wake you up at 4am I have one word: Curtains. If you ask me, DST is just a way for those folks who commute on east-west roads to have to look directly into the rising/setting sun for a good portion of every spring and fall.

DST is a Waste (1)

BishonenAngstMagnet (797469) | more than 7 years ago | (#16683445)

Ohnos, I can't bare to get up at 6am, we must adjust the clock so I can get up at 7am instead....
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