Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Taking Bully Seriously?

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the better-than-ezra dept.

69

simoniker writes "There's been plenty of controversy about Rockstar's PS2 title Bully, but does it actually have anything to teach players? Ian Bogost looks into whether the game actually has a social message, explaining: 'Taking Bully seriously means acknowledging that the game has something to say about the world, not just that the world has something to say about it. It means assessing how effectively the game tackles the topic of bullying and how meaningful its claims about it are.' His conclusion? 'Sweeping away all the dust that Bully left in the wake of its release, it's hard to defend the game, not because it might be a pubic nuisance or a danger to kids, but because it could have been so much more of a scathing critique of high school social politics than it turned out to be.'"

cancel ×

69 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Scathing Critique? (4, Insightful)

denebian devil (944045) | more than 7 years ago | (#16696039)

I don't know about the rest of you, but when I play a video game, I don't want a "scathing critique of high school social politics," or anything else for that matter. I want something that entertains and engages me. Whatever happened to fun for fun's sake?!?

Re:Scathing Critique? (1)

Rachel Lucid (964267) | more than 7 years ago | (#16696069)

Who grinds on WoW because it's fun? We do it because we don't want to do REAL work!

Re:Scathing Critique? (1)

OakDragon (885217) | more than 7 years ago | (#16696083)

Agreed. How about a game where I scream "NERDS!" and kick them in the shins? Now that's lawsuit bait!

Re:Scathing Critique? (2, Insightful)

KiahZero (610862) | more than 7 years ago | (#16696315)

It's the gaming equivalent of literary criticism. In other words, the author is analyzing this as art. "Fun for fun's sake" isn't sufficient to make a truly artistic game, just like it's not enough to turn your typical trashy romance novel into a work of art.

Re:Scathing Critique? (1)

Magada (741361) | more than 7 years ago | (#16701933)

Ok, here's MY scathing critique: Editors should be able to distinguish between PUBIC nuisances and PUBLIC nuisances. Perhaps the years of scratching their collective PUBES in PUBLIC -and thus establishing themselves as PUBLIC PUBIC nuisances- have dulled that ability.

Re:Scathing Critique? (1)

geekster (87252) | more than 7 years ago | (#16696511)

I don't have a single preference for playing games. I'm all for playing a game "for fun's sake". But at the same time I don't mind playing a game, or more likely, watching a movie with some social critique. To sum it up, it's not all or nothing. I'm getting kinda tired of his attitude.

Re:Scathing Critique? (1)

geekster (87252) | more than 7 years ago | (#16696623)

"this attitude" sorry. Nothing personal.

Re:Scathing Critique? (1)

denebian devil (944045) | more than 7 years ago | (#16699437)

his attitude

Joke's on you. Be you get scared of girls anyway. Go ahead and perpetuate the belief that /. is completely populated by men. Sexist.

Re:Scathing Critique? (1)

Khuffie (818093) | more than 7 years ago | (#16703841)

Jokes on you. He meant to type "this". Idiot. :D

Re:Scathing Critique? (1)

Flentil (765056) | more than 7 years ago | (#16697001)

Ideally, we could have both. A game that is fun to play and also leaves a lasting impression with it's message. Why would anyone be against that? It would go over the heads of those who don't care, but they would still have fun.

Re:Scathing Critique? (1)

aafiske (243836) | more than 7 years ago | (#16697973)

South Park, the Simpsons, etc. are entertaining to watch and make meaningful social commentary. Why does saying 'you know, sometimes extra levels of meaning can make a thing more enjoyable' encounter such resistance?

Re:Scathing Critique? (1)

denebian devil (944045) | more than 7 years ago | (#16699473)

Why does saying 'you know, sometimes extra levels of meaning can make a thing more enjoyable' encounter such resistance?

Nothing. Assuming that's the message of Bully. But what the article really is saying is "don't think of Bully as a vulgar fighting game, there's more to it than that. Really!" My opinion is that in games, there doesn't *need* to be more to it than that. If you want to add subtext and nuance, that's your prerogative. If all you want to do is make something that's entertaining, that's okay too. It doesn't need to be explained away by levels of depth and meaning that don't exist just to validate the existence of the game.

Re:Scathing Critique? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16698681)

you my good man, are an idiot.

'the warriors' was a look at the callous nature of gangs in 1980's new york. That didn't stop it being fun.

The anime 'Neon Genesis Evangelion' is an indepth look at the troubled mine of a youth. That didn't stop it being a show about giant robots beating up on 'angels' (aliens)

Just because something has something to say doesn't stop it being fun, it only allows the text to appeal to a wider audience

Re:Scathing Critique? (1)

denebian devil (944045) | more than 7 years ago | (#16699405)

I didn't say I don't appreciate a more in depth critic now and again, I just said I don't want it in my basic mindless entertainment. I happened to like Evangelion, until of course it turned into the artists' masturbatory fantasy of stick drawing.

In any case, the joke's on you. I'm not even a man!! What? You think all people who post on /. are men? Sexist.

Re:Scathing Critique? (1)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 7 years ago | (#16699919)

Again with the "Slashdot isn't all men!" comment. That's twice in the space of six minutes, just on this story.

We get it. You're dickless. Bully (no pun intended) for you. Move on, please.

Re:Scathing Critique? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16731255)

As a (male, as if that mattered) feminist: please don't perpetuate the stereotype that all people concerned with gender issues on Slashdot are just mindlessly throwing about the word "sexist". I liked it when that word had an actual meaning.

Re:Scathing Critique? (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 7 years ago | (#16699285)

"I don't know about the rest of you, but when I play a video game, I don't want a "scathing critique of high school social politics," or anything else for that matter. I want something that entertains and engages me. Whatever happened to fun for fun's sake?!?"

Do you watch South Park?

Re:Scathing Critique? (1)

denebian devil (944045) | more than 7 years ago | (#16699713)

Do you watch South Park?

I do, and I enjoy it. I didn't realize it was also a GAME to watch South Park.

Re:Scathing Critique? (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 7 years ago | (#16702529)

It is if you're drinking.

-Eric

Re:Scathing Critique? (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 7 years ago | (#16705197)

"I do, and I enjoy it."

You're enjoying being entertained by scatching critique of social behaviour.

Re:Scathing Critique? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16700171)

Dear Denebian Devil,

please stop drunk posting.

It interferes with the image of your ta-tas being connected to a brain in my mind.

thanks.

Re:Scathing Critique? (1)

nEoN nOoDlE (27594) | more than 7 years ago | (#16700721)

I don't want a "scathing critique of high school social politics," or anything else for that matter.

Well, then we're in disagreement. Every now and then, an article comes around on slashdot about whether or not games can be considered art. Well, when game developers will actually use the medium to make political or social comments, critiques, and social change, that's when gaming will be an art form. Until then, just running your video game character around town and picking random fights for points is just entertainment, not art. Maybe that's your point, you said you just want something that entertains and engages. Maybe the running around and fighting does that for you, but for me to be engaged, it has to make me think. Until then, maybe 1 out of 2 ain't bad.

Re:Scathing Critique? (1)

Khuffie (818093) | more than 7 years ago | (#16703871)

The Mona Lisa provides political or social comments, critiques or social change? Who knew!

Re:Scathing Critique? (1)

nEoN nOoDlE (27594) | more than 7 years ago | (#16705649)

In case you haven't been around for the past 70 years, the meaning of art has kinda [wikipedia.org] changed [wikipedia.org] a bit [wikipedia.org] since the Mona Lisa. Pretty pictures just don't cut it as much for artistic credibility anymore.

Re:Scathing Critique? (1)

Khuffie (818093) | more than 7 years ago | (#16705795)

Oh, I have. I just don't think a urinal or splashing paint on a canvas are art. I do respect that other people can consider it to be art. And I don't believe art has to have some sort of social or political agenda to be considered art.

Re:Scathing Critique? (1)

ultranova (717540) | more than 7 years ago | (#16705843)

Well, when game developers will actually use the medium to make political or social comments, critiques, and social change, that's when gaming will be an art form.

Done [emogame.com] .

Altought I still can't quite say if it is a parody or particularly inept propaganda...

Re:Scathing Critique? (2, Insightful)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 7 years ago | (#16702201)

Ah, Slashdot at its finest: +5, insightful for a comment that basically states that it only wants mindless entertainment.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, we have games being attacked by idiot lawyers, and some people trying to defend the games on the basis of freedom of speech. I'd rather take the social criticism angle than the "But you honor, beating up kids in school entertains and engages me! Whatever happened to fun for fun's sake?!?" defense. And further, girl, this article is probably not about your entertainment, but rather about in what way this particular game is meaningful activity. Yes, consider that: It's not about you and your entertainment.

Kids today...

Re:Scathing Critique? (1)

BigDaddyPaul (1024123) | more than 7 years ago | (#16753915)

I know a lot of you are questioning anyone limiting access to certain games. Generally, I support more often than not. As a martial arts instructor over the last 15 years, I can tell you that experiencing (experiential knowledge) is key to understanding and development: mentally, physically and emotionally. However, YOU WILL BECOME WHAT YOU PRETEND TO BE. Keep practicing something and it becomes easier to do. Since no one can really force you not to play the game (Congress did not stop the release of "Bully"), it is unfortunately up to the less experienced kids of the world to be aware of the effects that pretending to be a bully pose. Most adults are too busy to play games. They want to make more money so they can keep their kids in safe schools (i.e. schools with fewer bullies and drugs!).

When I was a kid (20 years ago), it was easy to figure out why the bullies acted out and crushed everyone they could. Their family backgrounds were terrible. The worst bully in my school was the son of a prostitute. We were told his dad died, but later learned his dad was a criminal. Pain and fury was all he knew. That does not excuse him, but he lacked the influence of a positive adult. As a result, he grew into a low-life himself, just copying from what he saw as his family. His life is typical for a bully. He was bright academically and won many awards in sports, but his hatred for other people was clear. The bullying did not go well for him. Last time I heard about him, he was bagging groceries after another stint in jail.

Another game, Bounty Hunter, about the adventures of Jango Fett from Star Wars has the same general negative effect on the player that "Bully" has. It is a fun game, but you feel the evil influence of thinking like a villain during the game. Rather than having customers live out the "dark side" of life in a game, a better way to make a social message to educate us on how bullies are created would be a movie. Make a big budget adventure flick and watch the people flock in! Then you will have the attention of a lot of people for at least a good 90 minutes. Who knows? You might even see a bully crying into a hanky!

La! Release it upon the PC. (1)

Funkcikle (630170) | more than 7 years ago | (#16696101)

[It] could have been so much more of a scathing critique of high school social politics than it turned out to be.
Well, I am sure this issue will be addressed by the many copy cat games which will follow. Or perhaps in the charity-commission games which will contain a bold and powerful message against bullying.

I want to play Bully. Not because I want to run around beating up children or because I think the whole premise is amusing, but because the plot and story seem different and new compared to the current crop of games. I am sick to the back teeth of Animal Crossing: Wild World. It doesn't follow that I do not appreciate the seriousness of bullying or understand the horrendous burden placed upon the bullied.

Some people just need to take a deep breath and realise that entertainment = entertainment and that if they do not feel it is commensurate with their own agenda or message, they should do a better job themselves of getting that message out, rather than hoping other agencies/industries will.

Re:La! Release it upon the PC. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16696233)

lmbo buttes

Re:La! Release it upon the PC. (2, Insightful)

meringuoid (568297) | more than 7 years ago | (#16696279)

I am sick to the back teeth of Animal Crossing: Wild World.

It's getting old for me too. I mean, how many times can you WOW, TURNIP PRICE IS LIKE 478 BELLS! WOOT! BIGGER HOUSE HERE I COME!...

Erm, as I was saying... how many times can you go digging for HOLY CRAP COOL I'VE FINISHED MY STEGOSAURUS!

No, sorry, what was it... Ah yes. I'm sick to death of that evil bloody kitsune Crazy Redd and his forged artwork. Surely there should be another way of obtaining material for the museum's gallery. That's why I'm cross at Animal Crossing. Yep.

Oh, and I got called a redneck by the fashion zombie giraffe thing last week. That didn't please me.

And Firefox's inbuilt spellchecker doesn't know 'kitsune'. Silly thing.

Re:La! Release it upon the PC. (1)

KermodeBear (738243) | more than 7 years ago | (#16696517)

And Firefox's inbuilt spellchecker doesn't know 'kitsune'. Silly thing.
That is silly. It also does not know kermode. Kermode bears are awesome. At least a right click'll add 'ya. (o:

Re:La! Release it upon the PC. (1)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 7 years ago | (#16696573)

Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
DO NOT BLAS-PHEME!

Re:La! Release it upon the PC. (1)

vilenin0 (924361) | more than 7 years ago | (#16702861)

...but because the plot and story seem different and new compared to the current crop of games. I am sick to the back teeth of Animal Crossing: Wild World.
You're right. What with Nintendo's incessant release schedule introducing a new Animal Crossing every four years AND the seemingly endless army of Animal Crossing clones the third parties keep releasing. Not to mention the constant public fervor... When will we get a breath of fresh air from small town simulations featuring these anthropomorphic freaks!?!? If only we could somehow convince publishers and developers to craft more of these "sandbox" games that evoke popular anti-establishment attitude. But that's just a pie-in-the-sky fantasy, I guess.

public? (2, Funny)

spectral (158121) | more than 7 years ago | (#16696149)

hehe he said pubic.

Actually... (1)

Kell Bengal (711123) | more than 7 years ago | (#16696151)

My one thought of bully, as a kid who was bullied mercilessly at school, is that perhaps people will see it from the other side of the fence. Computer games are interesting in that they can make the player develop empathy with characters. I wonder what I might learn from it, and I wonder what bullies might learn from it. No, I'm not expecting some radical change in school-yard pathos, but don't forget that computer games used to be the great nerd activity. If the lines between nerd and bully blur, what will people be picked on for? My guess is the same usual things - physical differences; those elements deeply ingrained in humanity. I'm waiting for the game 'Human' in which the player must slaughter enemy tribes and steal their women. I wonder what I might learn from it.

Yes it could be a social commentary. (1)

kinglink (195330) | more than 7 years ago | (#16696193)

Even as a game we can have an interesting social commentary in it. But in the end, games are about having fun, and Rockstar isn't known for their social commentary, they are known for open world game play.

I do agree Rockstar can use better writers, their characters aren't exactly inspired (unless inspired means "We just used Tony Montana and gave him a little Ray Liotta acting") So them trying to give a social commentary would be like monkeys acting out shakespeare. You won't get the point, but it could be entertaining, or sad.

Anyone expecting something better than what they got from bully needs to realize that outside of GTA Rockstar isn't a "solid company" they aren't even a good company in most respects. The best thing they can do is just make GTA styled games. If you want social commentary go talk to or read a 14 year olds live journal or blog. Want less angst go watch something like the basketball diaries. For the rest of us I think it's better we get fun games than games that are impactful, it's great when games are both, but it's a rare occurrence, and definitely not something Rockstar has ever attempted (noticeably) or is likely to exceed at.

Re:Yes it could be a social commentary. (1)

vonPoonBurGer (680105) | more than 7 years ago | (#16696447)

"go watch something like the basketball diaries"

Why can't we have social commentary on that level in games? Where is it written that games must be frivolous? I'm not saying that all games need deeper meaning, or social commentary, but it would be awfully nice if *some* game producers actually tried to take it to the next level. That's what Mr. Bogost and the Serious Game Source site are advocating, because the best way to get regulators to take games seriously is to produce games that take themselves seriously.

Re:Yes it could be a social commentary. (1)

kinglink (195330) | more than 7 years ago | (#16696709)

My point is he's asking the WRONG company to do it. MGS has commentary on many topics since the begining, You can read in social commentary on many games even if it's not there. But just like we have something deep in some games doesn't mean we can't have an action game, and bully never looked like it was going to be anything like what they are advocating.

Rockstar is the wrong company to start this type of game because as it is most regulators arn't going to take them serious even if they try to be, they are sarcastic, humorous and vulgar at times. Expecting them to do anything else is misguide or just flat wrong.

Re:Yes it could be a social commentary. (1)

aafiske (243836) | more than 7 years ago | (#16697941)

Yeah, because the sarcastic, humorous, and vulgar South Park never attempts to make biting social commentary or anything. It'd be stupid if it tried.

Er...

Re:Yes it could be a social commentary. (1)

kin_korn_karn (466864) | more than 7 years ago | (#16702031)


There's a higher level of tolerance for vulgarity in TV and film because the cultural watchdogs are satisfied that they can be kept from children. The same people still think of games as being strictly kids' stuff, so vulgarity in games is horrific to them.

It is commentary. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16700511)

How people play the game is the commentary. It and GTA are a reflection of our primitive selves freed from the burden of very real, very serious consequences social, personal, emotional, or otherwise. They reveal that while the lizard in our brains might not be driving, he is in fact in the car.

Re:Yes it could be a social commentary. (1)

mink (266117) | more than 7 years ago | (#16740409)

"and Rockstar isn't known for their social commentary"

Have you listened to any of the radio station in any of the GTA3 series games?

As a principle (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16696235)

I take bullying very seriously, because the game is fun to play

Canis canem edit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16696289)

Bullying happens. People messing with other people happens. As long as humans are humans men and women will seek ways to prove to themselves and others that they are superior to the next guy or gal. Growing up means learning how to adapt to these unchanging facts of life. Videogames aren't going to change hard-coded human nature.

Shrill moralizing gasbags like this Bogost guy are just Jack Thompson and Hillary Clinton in touchy-feely garb. Rockstar's job in developing Bully was to make an entertaining game, not to push some progressive agenda; it's still up in the air whether they've succeeded, but they aren't under any obligation to forward anyone's notions of making the world a better place.

Re:Canis canem edit (1)

KiahZero (610862) | more than 7 years ago | (#16696705)

[i]Bullying happens. People messing with other people happens[/i]

Life's not fair, so I can hurt people however I want, right?

[i]Rockstar's job in developing Bully was to make an entertaining game, not to push some progressive agenda[/i]

Who said they were under an obligation to do so? The author of the article certainly didn't.

Re:Canis canem edit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16697017)

This is not a flame, but inquiry.

You do know that /. uses HTML and not BBCode for comments, correct?
I just noticed your "[" and "]" usage and thought that if you did not know, then I could inform you that the allowed HTML usage is located below the captcha word under the textarea.

My belief is that this is not a php bulletin board. This is /. which appears to use perl for it's coding and it was established long before any php bulletin board software came out.

So to get your point across, please use the allowed HTML for your comments and not the BBCoding that you did use, as seeing the brackets bugs me.

Yes, I know that came off a whole lot worse than I meant it to, but oh well.

PS My captcha word was boasts, kind of funny.

Re:Canis canem edit (1)

KiahZero (610862) | more than 7 years ago | (#16697633)

I regularly post on two boards that use BBCode and one board that uses HTML (this one). If you look at my post history, you'll note that sometimes I use the appropriate tags, and sometimes I don't. In fact, in one thread (Will the U.S. Lose Control of the Internet?), I managed to use both methods... thankfully, it wasn't so bad that I went with both in the same post. What this really means is that I need to remember to use Preview rather than just submitting straight off.

Re:Canis canem edit (1)

DeadChobi (740395) | more than 7 years ago | (#16699237)

Wait a minute, how is Bogost trying to advocate the destruction of an art form? What he's trying to say is that Bully could have been much more had they taken it seriously instead of making it like their usual fare. There's no "OMG! Hate! Burn it!" message there, and it's depressing that you saw that.

I'm looking forward to playing it... (1)

meringuoid (568297) | more than 7 years ago | (#16696317)

... not because I expect a fully realized system of high-school popularity politics, but because I want to play Skool Daze 2006 in glorious 3D. So far as I've heard the setting is very much a Beano Annual kind of thing. Elements of Winker Watson, elements of the Bash Street Kids. All done with a GTA engine. Sounds fantastic.

Pubic nuisance? (1)

JFMulder (59706) | more than 7 years ago | (#16696321)

not because it might be a pubic nuisance or a danger to kids

Does the game come with a STD or what?

Pubic Nuisance (1)

Hazrek (900706) | more than 7 years ago | (#16696369)

Oh noes, Jack Thompson is going to have a field day with this new "pubic nuisance" feature!

Concentration Camp Tycoon (1)

Supurcell (834022) | more than 7 years ago | (#16696481)

I want someone to make a Concentration Camp game where you play the Nazis and see if it causes a ruckes near as big as a game about schoolyard bullies.

Re:Concentration Camp Tycoon (1)

cptnapalm (120276) | more than 7 years ago | (#16696855)

That would cause an uproar.

Now, if you wished to have a game which elicited no negative commentary, create a game where you play as Communists and kill millions of people.

No one will care.

Match the cards and solve the rebus (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 7 years ago | (#16696969)

I want someone to make a Concentration Camp game where you play the Nazis

And if you can match the cards and solve the rebus [wikipedia.org] before the Jews, you get to go through with the Fuehrer's final solution, right?

It's called "KZ Manager" (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16699249)

It's called "KZ Manager" [wikipedia.org] . "The goal of the game is to keep the camp functioning by keeping the "public opinion" or other important resources and gauges over or under a certain threshold. In one version, public opinion rises when the "manager" executes a number of prisoners with Zyklon B. However, ordering said gas costs money, which can be gathered by forcing the prisoners to work. Spending too much time without a "sufficient" number of executions makes "public satisfaction" drop, and having too few working prisoners will soon drive to a resource shortage, and closing of the camp, thus losing the game."

seriousgamessource.com (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16696989)

What I have trouble taking seriously is a site dedicated to assigning an incompatible and unwelcome purpose to games. It seems to me that using games as a vehicle for social commentary is a comically ill-conceived idea. As a gamer, I am not receptive to the appropriation of my hobby for use as a soapbox.

Games are games (1)

thermal_7 (929308) | more than 7 years ago | (#16698645)

it's hard to defend the game, not because it might be a pubic nuisance or a danger to kids, but because it could have been so much more of a scathing critique of high school social politics than it turned out to be

Games are about fun. Since when do they have to worry about including a social message?

Take Mario for example. Bowser is attempting to institute a tyrannical rule over the Mushroom Kingdom. This is fertile ground for a scathing critique of invasion and dictatorships, but that would make a really boring game. What's fun is establishing, yes these are bad guys and then beating the shit out of them :)

I just can't wait for the mod scene to lay hands.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16698743)

I just can't wait for the mod scene to lay hands on this game and make a Hot Coffee mod.

Finally some teen action!

And from what I understand Rockstar even promised some spanking...

Strictly off-record of course.

It may have nothing to say, but (1)

grapeape (137008) | more than 7 years ago | (#16698865)

It may have nothing to say, but its still every picked on geeks dream come true. I can imagine many a young geek will be taking out his frustration with this. If I had this option when I was kid it would have avoided many poundings as I tried and often failed to stick up for myself.

Grups (1)

6ame633k (921453) | more than 7 years ago | (#16699361)

I think it's a kool idea and plan to give it a spin. Good or bad, I think it's a creative idea, certainly like nothing we've seen before from a video game...

I've said it before and I'll say it again - games aren't JUST for kids, I think us grups can handle a few bullies, or at least have fun tryin.

If you don't like it go play "Hello Kitty Island Adventure" and shaddup.

Why be fun when you can be dull? (1)

Zadaz (950521) | more than 7 years ago | (#16699383)

...it could have been so much more of a scathing critique of high school social politics than it turned out to be.

I really can't think of anything I'd be less likely to see/read/watch/participate in than a "critique of high school social politics". Sounds like something shown at 3:15am on the public access station.

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with games having more depth, but the thoughts they provoke should enhance the game, not make me fall asleep.

Violence OK. Kissing? Not so much. (1)

the Gray Mouser (1013773) | more than 7 years ago | (#16699691)

People will accept the violence. But the kissing [foxnews.com] may be over the top for a lot of male gamers.

We all love the lesbians, but male on male still doesn't sell well to the mainstream.

Of course, Jack Thompson did his best to help publicize the game, so we'll have to see how well it does.

Re:Violence OK. Kissing? Not so much. (1)

kalirion (728907) | more than 7 years ago | (#16702837)

hahaha

From the article:

"I can't have my kids playing this game. This is morally reprehensible. GTA (Grand Theft Auto) is a real man's game, Bully is a disgrace," wrote a poster using the handle spideRRR on GameSpot.com.

Yeah, it's nice to know how people prioritize...

And While We're on the Subject... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16701811)

Was anyone else dissapointed by the lack of historical accuracy in God of War? It was as if they didn't even bother to go to a library.

Though I myself prefer fiction, and the sub-post-modern docudrama style of Conker's Bad Fur Day. The subtext, in that game, really captured the essense of the timeless struggle of Man v. Himself by using poo as a provocative metaphor for the human condition.

I wonder when Nintendo will take a cue from that and hire a better screenplay writer to capture the real Mario, you know? The image of a tortured mushroom addict trying to rescue his feminine identity from the rage built up inside of his own spiked shell of denial and fear.

Yes-yes! Oh, the art of it all.

What's the big deal? (2, Insightful)

Thumper_SVX (239525) | more than 7 years ago | (#16702991)

I mean, seriously. I remember playing this game years ago! [wikipedia.org]

Has this one just become a big deal because the Spectrum couldn't handle full motion 3D graphics? Bully seems to be just a logical evolution of Skool Daze, a game that's over 20 years old now but was great in its time (and I played it recently on a Spectrum emulator and enjoyed the hell out of it, still!). Hell, it even had the "homosexual content" thing down where you could kiss guys, so even that's nothing new.

Having said that, I'm actually looking forward to picking this one up and playing it. I have always enjoyed Rockstar's games and I see no reason I won't enjoy this, too. I doubt it's going to turn me into a bully because (a) I'm not at school; I'm in my 30's and (b) Grand Theft Auto didn't turn me into a carjacking gun-toting villain except maybe for a few hours every few days when I got time to play it! If you seriously can't separate fact from fiction enough to play a game like Bully, then you probably shouldn't go to the movies, or watch TV... or hell read a book!

Re:What's the big deal? (1)

mgblst (80109) | more than 7 years ago | (#16704001)

Grand Theft Auto didn't turn me into a carjacking gun-toting villain except maybe for a few hours every few days when I got time to play it!
 
If you can't argue them on the points, then put words into their mouths. It makes it much easier to win when you control both sides of the argument.

They aren't saying this, but they are saying (correctly of incorrectly) is that Violent video games can also make people violent. This is something that is very difficult to prove is wrong. Have you noticed yourself getting more aggressive in anyway after playing a game? How can you, who looks for these things and analyses themselves so much? Nobody.

Re:What's the big deal? (1)

Thumper_SVX (239525) | more than 7 years ago | (#16704239)

I've played violent video games since I got my first computer in 1982. Hell, I wrote a couple of shareware/freeware violent games. I feel that I grew up into a relatively well adjusted and normal adult, and most of my peers agree. I do realize some people have a tenuous grip on reality, and they could have found themselves being made more violent or desensitized to violence by violent computer games, but these same people would probably have the same problem with movies, TV and books.

The primary problem here is not in my opinion the games, but rather the lack of parenting these people have received. I see way too often parents who are detached from their kids, essentially letting the state, the TV and the computer raise their children in this country. Parents would rather continue to live the same lives they led while single rather than actually do any real work to raise children. They're often viewed as a burden by these people. My parents raised me to recognize fact from fiction, and made sure I could draw the lines easily. I'm doing the same with my children, and yes I do let them play violent video games so long as they know that they're just that; games.

And to answer the question, after playing said video games I often feel less violent. They're a great stress relief in a violent world, and when I'm done playing depending on the time I will go to bed, or go down to the family room to watch Mythbusters with my kids, or go out and play soccer with my son... you name it. In many ways, I consider myself quite normal. And to answer your last question about who analyzes me? Well, my wife and kids for a start. I'm not the gamer you think I am; living alone and playing games all the time. I play games when I feel like it and/or have time. I am constantly being analyzed by those around me... and I'm a very social creature. If I become antisocial for some reason, there's my wife, my kids and my friends who will tell me about it. Sorry, that argument that nobody analyzes me doesn't stand up.

Ruh-oh! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16710875)

As a nation that purports to defend the freedom to speak, it's disheartening to hear someone say that any particular speech doesn't warrant defense because it doesn't bring a lot of genuine social good to the table. The right to free speech entitles us to create bad art.

Defending the First Amendment is like stopping bullies: If you only stop them from bullying your friends, you haven't stopped them at all. Please, feel free to not recommend Bully. Feel free to tell us it's a bad game. But don't stop defending it - because you know who's attacking it. This game was almost genuinely censored because a certain someone didn't think it was up to his standards, either.
Check for New Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?