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Conducting an International Job Search?

Cliff posted more than 7 years ago | from the overseas-classifieds dept.

34

An anonymous reader asks: "Ask Slashdot recently did a question about leaving America for someplace else, and that got me thinking — for those that left, how did you get started? After you had picked your destination country, did you just hop on a plane and look from there, if so how much money did you keep in reserve? Did you find the job before you went? What is the best site to look at for international job postings?"

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34 comments

College recruiting (1)

eric76 (679787) | more than 7 years ago | (#16714643)

If you're still in college, check with the office that handles on-campus recruiting.

When I was graduating, I considered a number of jobs overseas.

There's also employers like the State Department with an abundance of overseas postings.

Re:College recruiting (2)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | more than 7 years ago | (#16715719)

When I was graduating, I considered a number of jobs overseas.

Yes, when I greaduated there were a number of US Gov't opportunities in Southeast Asia.

Re:College recruiting (1)

lhand (30548) | more than 7 years ago | (#16718853)

Yes, when I greaduated there were a number of US Gov't opportunities in Southeast Asia.
And I taked one teaching Engrish!

Wow... (1)

WebCrapper (667046) | more than 7 years ago | (#16714703)

I'm in awe of the whole "I'm leaving!" mentality thats apparently taken slashdot by storm. I'm an American living in Germany due to the military and I get chased by recruiters from the US on a regular basis. In fact, I'm working with one right now for a pretty serious offer. I've gotten recruiters from everywhere from Florida to Las Vegas bugging me on a regular basis and I don't have anything that I would call special other than web coding experience.

What industries are these people in where they think they have to leave to get jobs? Good grief!

Re:Wow... (1)

kdcttg (980465) | more than 7 years ago | (#16714761)

I dont think that it is the fact that people cant get jobs, more the fact that they want to get out of countries that are becoming more and more oppressive and untrustworthy everyday.
I know that when i finish uni im going to want to leave the UK and live abroad, and im sure that the people who want to leave USA want to do it for the same reason.

Re:Wow... (1)

mikael (484) | more than 7 years ago | (#16727263)

I know that when i finish uni im going to want to leave the UK and live abroad, and im sure that the people who want to leave USA want to do it for the same reason.

Three hundred thousand people are leaving the UK each year now. The reason most people are leaving are the high cost of housing (especially for retirees), the lack of job and pension security.

Even the immigrate to the UK websites [ukimmigrate.co.uk] give manage to put a positive spin on it: "high job turnover rate creating opportunities"

Although, there are many reasons which may the UK attractive to people from other countries:

"free state schools attended by over 90% of school-age children with the balance attending private schools."

"world-class free healthcare system available to all."

"welfare: a large welfare system to help you out if one of life's disasters befalls you."

The UK is a great place to live and rent if you are a single professional from a country with a lower cost of living, and want to spend a couple of years putting aside some money for a mortgage. But if you want to buy a house in an area with a good school, then you're going to need a really high salary - Around 50K pounds just to be able afford a house in a area with a good state school.
Even more so once the "reevaluation of house prices" [thisislondon.co.uk] is carried out.

Re:Wow... (2, Insightful)

the_unknown_soldier (675161) | more than 7 years ago | (#16714791)

What industries are these people in where they think they have to leave to get jobs? Good grief! It's not about leaving because there are no jobs, its about leaving because of America's domestic and foreign policy. People want to move to countries with decent social welfare, that are not aggressive towards sovereign states. Of course, this type of apathy very rarely leads to anybody actually ever moving. Change is only a mid-term election away.

Re:Wow... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16714949)

Ah I want to go the opposite way for the same reasons.... nice to have fuck all social welfare, stop having to pay 50% tax so lazy bastards can scrounge of the government and do nothing.

As for the military, everyone in America gets their own aircraft carrier right??? I saw old President Bush got his the other day, so I assume it is some sort of queue for everyone to get theirs?!

Re:Wow... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16721635)

Ah I want to go the opposite way for the same reasons....

Yeah, for some reason IT seems to attract people who idealize communism. Its bad enough they seem to think they are entitled to a low unemployment rate and protection from overseas competition whil they drive their Japanese cars and wear they sweat-shop sneakers...

Re:Wow... (1)

argoff (142580) | more than 7 years ago | (#16719741)

You don't understand.

Between the housing debt, the credit card debt, the auto debt, the city debt, the state debt, the federal government debt, corporate debt, financial sector debt, and 50 trillion dollars worth of pre obligated costs like social security and medicare. The US is bankrupt [att.net]. It is about 500K per family increasing at about 30K per year. Can your family pay that?

The US economy is getting ready to collapse, and what do governments do when their economies collapse? Well, They become police states [freedomtofascism.com]. They tend to do things like track all the citizens travels, monitor all their finances and internet activity, suspend habeas corpus. HEY LOOKIE, the US did all that !!!!

Also, do you know what a financial Derivative [wikipedia.org] is? Well you should because the total estimated outstanding derivitave obligations just recently passed the Quadrillion mark. No I mean Quadrillion, not Billion, Trillion, not Hundred Billion, or Hundred Trillion. With a US GDP of 12 trillion per year, my question is how the hell can that be solvent??? (Hint, it isn't)

Every country in the world will be hit by the collapse, but none the less, only a fool would not be considering an exit strategy at this time or preparing for disaster at home. Buddy, the Titanic has been hit by an iceberg and you had better not be like those passangers who dallied around before getting on the lifeboats.

Re:Wow... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16721959)

I seriously wonder about the sanity of people who think this way. I actually thought about writing a rebuttal point by point, by then I remember the old adage "arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics, even if you win you're still retarded." You sir, are a winner. Congratulations/

I don't get it... (2, Funny)

joto (134244) | more than 7 years ago | (#16714769)

Why do you think that we would want you here. Please stay in America.

Re:I don't get it... (2, Informative)

itwerx (165526) | more than 7 years ago | (#16715979)

Why do you think that we would want you here. Please stay in America.

Parent is modded funny but it really should be Insightful. I travel and so do a number of people I know and America isn't scoring very high in the world's opinion right now. It used to be that when people in other countries knew you were from America the conversation would revolve around entertainment, way of life etc. Now you get the cold shoulder and it takes some effort to convince people that you're not like Bush; the undeniable logic being that if he "won" the presidency then the greater part of America must support his actions. (No need to flame on that, it's just the perception someone outside the US is likely to have.)

Re:I don't get it... (1)

DMorritt (923396) | more than 7 years ago | (#16784457)

despite all of the americans that go online or into the media and shout "hey i didnt vote for him", more voted for bush than the other guy.

but lets face it, the rest of the world is only mildly interested in who is in power in america, lets face it whoever it is will probably make the same mistakes as the guy that all those apologetic people voted for.

i dont get it, why do americans expect the outside world to treat their elections with the same gravity they do? we really, really dont care.

IRS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16714811)

Keep in mind that when you try to give up your citizenship, the IRS will immediately think you're doing it to evade taxes. There's plenty of links on the web about giving up your US citizenship:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/28201/ren ounce_us_citizenship_process_and.html/ [associatedcontent.com] for one.

Re:IRS (1)

STFS (671004) | more than 7 years ago | (#16714881)

For heavens sake don't give up your citizenship. We need people like you to retain their right to vote in the US to prevent a disaster like this [wikipedia.org] from ever happening again.

Re:IRS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16716231)

Keep in mind that when you try to give up your citizenship, the IRS will immediately think you're doing it to evade taxes.

Keep your citzenship. You should do what most european locals do to evade ridiculously high taxes. Stash your money in Luxembourg, Switzerland, Isle of Man or other tax havens with bank secrecy laws.

The Swiss don't regard tax evasion as a serious crime, so they will not cooperate with foreign investigations into tax evasion.

It is not going to be easy (3, Informative)

thsths (31372) | more than 7 years ago | (#16714859)

> for those that left, how did you get started?

I did not start from the States, but I did get jobs in different European countries. So I have the experience of applying "somewhere else", but given my right to stay and working within the EU, I did not have VISA/work permit issues. Even so it can be a difficult process.

1. Finding the job should be no problem. Got to www.monster., and you will find thousands of jobs. Unless you are very specialised, there should be something for you.

2. Taking the first hurdle. IT recruitment is usually outsourced or at least concentrated in HR. So your application will be scored, and you do take a hit for not "being there", and another for not being available immediately. Following up by phone really helps, but watch the time zones!

3. Phone interview. Again you have to watch the time zones, but it should not be a problem. I hope you speak the correct language! :-)

4. Getting the interview. Obviously the interview is going to be costly if you are not "there". Usually European employers pay reasonable travel expenses, but I doubt this will include a transatlantic flight. In any way you have another disadvantage at this point, because the interview is expensive and difficult to arrange.

5. Moving. Finding a house and moving your stuff can be expensive, but that depends on your circumstances. Employers usually pay a contribution, and the rest is tax deductible (not bad at tax rates around 40%).

So 2. and 4. are difficult. And there is the work permit issue. You can nearly always get a work permit, if the company "sponsors" you. However, most companies try to avoid the paper work necessary. Getting a work permit based on skills (without a sponsor) is possible, but often expensive, and only valid in one European country.

And don't forget that unemployment is around 10%, so there is plenty of competition. Having a distinguishing (relevant) skill certainly helps a lot.

I hope this does not sound too negative. If you are determined to move, it is certainly possible. And you are rewarded with completely unamerican advantages such as state healthcare, an average of 30 private holidays per year, and usually shorter work hours. Plus you can visit all the European countries in a reasonably short time!

Companies with job centers in both USA and Europe (1)

ElMiguel (117685) | more than 7 years ago | (#16714939)

Lots of companies have job centers in both the USA and Europe. If there is a job center for a company you're interested in relatively near to your home, you could perhaps do some interviews there and get a general feeling for the company before investing more time and effort in interviewing in Europe. Let them know from the beginning that you intend to move to Europe and if they're interested in you they'll probably try to help.

What worked for me (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16715083)

My background: I'm a New Zealander who worked in NYC for 5 years and decided to move to Scotland.


I took the 'burn the bridges behind you' approach and quit my job in NYC, took my future wife home to NZ for a month over Christmas and then went skiing in Utah for 3 months before heading to Scotland. YMMV.

A few months before I was due to move I started researching the IT recruiting companies and IT job sites. Make sure you polish your CV/resume in the format of your destination before you leave too. I also spent a lot of time surfing Edinburgh, the place I was moving to, reading the local newspapers online, looking at maps etc. Ie try to do some familiarization before you leave. Maybe buy a Lonely Planet or Rough Guide book.


Then I got on a plane, flew to Scotland and stayed in a youth hostel.


One of the first things to do whereever you go is to get a local cellphone number so the recruitment and real estate critters can contact you. If you're smart enough to have an unlocked triband GSM phone then you just buy a prepaid SIM and you're rocking. If you dont have one then buy one now. At this point you will have no address or credit history so getting a monthly plan is not an option.


Next I powered up the $30 thrift store interview suit and started visiting the recruiters. One comment I had at this point from a recruiter was that they get lots of CV's emailed from abroad with

'Dear Sir/Madam. I am Otto Maddox and I will be moving to ...'

and they just bin them as the success rate for these is very low. Ie not worth their time.
Turning up in person in a suit, looking them in the eye, shaking their hand and having a talk shows you're serious and have already made the effort to get there. This approach worked well for me and it took me about seven weeks from arrival to starting a job.


Visas are a big thing too as many companies will not sponsor you and I arranged one before I left. The recruiters often asked what my visa status was.


Money wise you need to have a pretty decent sized cushion. I did it on the cheap by staying in a hostel and doing some work there to pay for my stay some days rather than staying in a hotel or B&B. If you know someone at your destination then surfing some couch is a good way to get set up. Regardless you'll probably need a big deposit for an apartment/flat and enough to live on until the first paycheck arrives. There *will* be some gotchas that will require money to resolve. Throwing more money at things can also make them happen faster. I would suggest 3-6 months expected living costs. And maybe some extra padding as well.


What will I do differently when I do it again? I would take a laptop with me as going to internet cafes and the library started to piss me off.


It's not easy to make the jump but the rewards are worth it.

I'd buy a one way plane ticket a few months out and then you're committed.

Moving abroad seems like a huge maybe insurmountable issue to deal with as a whole but if you break it down into little chunks then it's not too bad. You can make it happen.

Job sites and advice (1)

castlec (546341) | more than 7 years ago | (#16715089)

thedailywtf has international postings. In addition, someone already mentioned monster. I know for certain they have a large presence in the UK, the Netherlands and the Czech Republic and they probably have more than that. I have visa experience from the Czechs and the laws are probably standard across the entire EU. The way it works here is the potential employer has to ask for permission to hire a foreigner and give the qualifications for the job. If the labor office can find someone registered with them who doesn't have a job, the employer is not allowed to hire the foreigner. Then you have to collect criminal records, a rental contract and whatever else is new in that particular year to apply for the visa. It can be overwhelming. Don't leave the US without copies of diplomas and your birth certificate, preferably marked by an Apostille. If you think you might need a document, grab it and take it with you. Better safe than sorry. I can't think of anything else right now but if there are questions, please ask.

Trade Organizations (1)

kninja (121603) | more than 7 years ago | (#16715113)

I recommend finding trade organizations for your target country in the U.S. or your current country, and talking with them. They usually have a network of companies that are doing business in your country and who might have an interest in hiring someone from that country for a number of different positions. Helpful Link [yahoo.com]

I ran into a guy who worked at one such trade organization for an obscure european country at a christmas party, we started speaking the language, which I just so happen to speak (Language skills are quite important), and he basically recommended me for a position he heard about through his international grapevine. It worked out - and I know that knowing the language helped immensely.

Choose where you want to go (1)

PrinceAshitaka (562972) | more than 7 years ago | (#16715121)

I chose where I wanted to move to(Basel, Switzerland), moved there and then conducted a normal job search with online resurces, newspapers, and headhunters. I suppose this choice depends on your personality. Is the location more important or the position you want to have. For me personally Basel is the perfect place as it has a great chemical industry for me to find a job in (I am a chemist) and it also has the social aspects I want in a community. ps If you want to find a job here look at jobs.ch [www.jobs.ch]

Become a specialist (1)

JanneM (7445) | more than 7 years ago | (#16715189)

Most "pedestrian" jobs have plenty of local applicants already, in whatever country you're looking to move to. There is little reason for any employer to even consider an overseas applicant, considering the extra risk, hassle and paperwork involved. Also, in many countries the more common the job, the harder it is to get a permit.

Your best bet is to be specialized at something. You can be so focused and so good at a small slice of your profession that you don't really have any competition for the kind of jobs you apply to. You might have really extensive, real-world knowledge of a combination of technologies that few other do (you know both AJAX and Cobol inside and out and sideways) or you might be a clear cut over the rest in a normal area (you wrote the spec in your area). If you qualify you can search english-language postings for the area you're interested in (most countries have job boards and stuff aimed at foreign residents; look into them).

Or you can have a profession that is greatly in demand. Nursing is a very good bet, especially if you can swing the local language as well. Being a physician can work, but be alert for licensing issues - you may have to work as an overqualified lab technician for a year until you've got the local license to practice. Being a qualified teacher is another profession usually warmly welcomed.

Being an academic generally works well - get a PhD and go abroad for your post-doc. Being an academic also means you're also hooked up into the loose grapevine sending job openings and grant announcements around.

Language teaching is a time-honored way to go abroad. Some countries have formal teaching programs, bringing in people for a year or three, and many places have language schools always looking for native speakers. Unlike the real teaching jobs for qualified people, this is a pretty bad job, though with the benefit of not actually requiring too much in the way of qualifications.

Re:Become a specialist (1)

voot (609611) | more than 7 years ago | (#16715593)

yeah learning the language is really important. if you can get a change to go over there and take language classes at university until you can get credentialed as knowing it you can easily get a job working as a language teacher. the best way is to contact the goverment education department and let them know you want to work for 5 years or so as a teacher and you will usually get citizenship out of this as well and that will help a lot when finding another job

An American Geek in London (4, Informative)

copito (1846) | more than 7 years ago | (#16715845)

I migrated from the LA to London 2 1/2 years ago under the Highly Skilled Migrant Programme [workingintheuk.gov.uk], which, if you qualify, is a very good way to enter the job market in the UK. You earn points based on your education level, number of years graduate (post university) working experience, salary, and other factors (bonus points for being young, an MD, or MBA from a top 50 school).

Once you get it, you can enter the UK without a job, look for a job for up to a year and switch employers at any time. Work permits are also possible but are much more restrictive since you need employer sponsorship, they need to "prove" that no one local could have done the job and to change employers requires a new work permit.

There are a number of good IT job sites in the uk (http://jobserve.com, http://monster.co.uk/ [monster.co.uk] http://jobsite.co.uk/ [jobsite.co.uk] http://progressive.co.uk/ [progressive.co.uk] etc...). I applied to many and got very few responses until I put down a friend's address and phone number in England. I was then able to get some telephone interviews, but didn't get a final job offer until after I moved over. Even though I was fortunate to get a job offer relatively quickly, I didn't start work for almost a month and a half, and didn't get paid for over 2 months (salaried payment in the UK is almost always monthly, often in arrears, which takes a bit to get used to). Contract work is also an option.

A very good website for the HSMP and UK immigration in general is http://www.immigrationboards.com/ [immigrationboards.com] a free discussion board, part of http://www.workpermit.com/ [workpermit.com] a worldwide immigration service (which I didn't use but might be an option for you).

Best of luck!

On moving to France (1)

Drubber (60345) | more than 7 years ago | (#16716215)

I have just made an international move myself. I decided to move from the States to France for a few years. I am in the job hunt phase now.

Since I haven't completed the latter, I will give a few details on the former.

Unemployment is 8-10% here, but 20% among the youth. Naturally, it is difficult to get a work visa unless a company sponsors you. The way I did it was to get a non-work/visitor's visa, by showing sufficient resources and stating that I would not seek employment in France. I explained that I am a software developer and that I would seek work with US companies and work remotely.

To do this right, you need about 6 or more months' worth of living expenses. I am near Paris, so I can get by without a car, but you really need one to experience Europe fully (the trains don't go to all the places you might want to see). Shopping and setting up house can also be a pain without one.

Paperwork is a real chore. You must apply for a visa about two or three months before you leave. It takes between six weeks and three months to have one issued. You must apply at a French Embassy (not a consulate) and they are beginning a biometrics program, so you may need to go in person. We live(d) in Washington State and had to fly to San Francisco. Once the visa is issued, you have a window of time to enter the country. Once there, you must apply for the residence card immediately. This process is the other half of the visa process and is very similar. There is much information on the web about this. I mention these details because they are not immediately evident.

Once you arrive, paperwork continues: registering your car, applying for a house, opening a bank account, etc. To apply for a house, you need to put together a 'dossier', which contains financial records and much more. Your realtor will help you. Estimate one month for realtor fees, two months for deposit and, sometimes, last month's rent. In total, you will need four to five months' worth of rent to move in.

In short, doing this yourself is doable as a non-EU citizen, but it is a real trial. Good luck.

Add this one to your bookmarks: Planet Recruit (1)

OhRock (617808) | more than 7 years ago | (#16716625)

If you are looking for a Job in Europe, you can get a wealth of information from them: planetrecruit.com

They are an English website, but you can do searches all across Europe.

Be Lucky and Pick the Right Job (2, Interesting)

Wellington Grey (942717) | more than 7 years ago | (#16717331)

Hey Anonymous Questioner,

I'm the guy who asked the 'if not America, then where' question a week or so ago on slashdot, so I thought I'd throw in my own example. The first half was luck of birth. When I was looking in to possibly living abroad, I discovered that I qualified for an Irish passport due to my ancestry. So if you want to work in another country, I'd check the citizenship laws and trawl through your family tree to see if you have any useful connections.

Secondly, I picked an occupation with a critical shortage: physics teachers. If you seriously want to live and work abroad anywhere in the world, I cannot recommend a better job. Every week I see loads of ads for science teachers to work abroad, and I've even received a few job offers from schools (in China for example) through my journal [wellingtongrey.net].

So check that family tree, pick a job with a shortage and get out into the world. It was the best decision I ever made.

-Grey

attack the problem from many angles (1)

No One You Know (600240) | more than 7 years ago | (#16720693)

A few years ago I decided to move to Canada (not for political reasons). First I needed a job, and I just attacked that problem from every angle I knew -- I posted my resume to job sites like dice.com, monster.ca, etc. I visited the city I wanted to live in three times, and spent as much time as possible during my visits networking with people, going to interviews, and walking around the city to get an idea of where I wanted to live. It took me nearly a year before it happened, but I made it out here and never looked back. Incidentally, the employer I ended up going with found me through dice.com.

I would also recommend that, if possible, you get a phone number and mailing address local to where you want to end up. I got a Mailboxes, Etc. mailbox and a phone number that went to voice mail before I even moved here. I used that number and address on my resume, so that employers wouldn't know outright that I didn't already live in the area. A lot of employers will dismiss your resume as soon as they see you don't live in the area. If they don't know that, they're a lot more likely to call, and once you get them on the phone you're in much better shape :-)

My advice is to be creative -- make as many contacts as possible and look for jobs everywhere you can think of. Develop a thick skin and be persistent as hell, and it will happen eventually.

Have passport, will travel (1)

Fallon (33975) | more than 7 years ago | (#16721619)

I have been living & working overseas for going on 8 years now as a defense contractor. If you have technical skills (more field skills than development), a passport, and a security clearance or the clean record required to get one.

Only American citizens can get a security clearance these days, so the industry is pretty much immune to outsourcing. However working with the government & military means a lot of BS and sometimes not so great living conditions. Depending on where you are looking to go, the pay is good to great, and frequently you don't have to pay taxes or living expenses.

Originally I heard about a job with Raytheon on some tropical island in the Central Pacific, applied, and eventually got hired as an entry level computer technician. Once I got on as a tech working for the contractor that ran the Army base there, they got me my security clearance. Seven years and a big contract change over for the primary contractor running the base I decided to look for greener pastures.

Posting on military related boards along with a good resume and a security clearance ended up yielding quite a few job leads, mostly in the middle east, but some in Germany and other parts of Europe as well.

Right now my wife and I are living on an Army base in Kabul, Afghanistan. each of us is making over double what I'd expect to be making in the states, add to that, no taxes, free room and board, and pretty much minimal if any other expenses and it's quite lucrative. Living conditions aren't that bad, but are much lower than I'd have in the states. We were living in tents for several weeks.

Personally I feel safer here than I would in certain parts of the states. A lot of it depends on where you end up. It's defiantly not for everybody, and you have to be reasonably flexible to deal with all the BS.

I feel quite patriotic for what I do, despite not having lived in the states for almost 8 years. I'm not in the military, but I'm doing my best to give our troops good IT support, which helps our country. Weather we should be over here or not (For the record, I think we should be here in Afghanistan at least), our troops deserve the best support they can get.

Be Alert for Scams! (1)

tillerman35 (763054) | more than 7 years ago | (#16722205)

Please be careful when doing your job search. As soon as you post your resume to a foreign job site, you will be a target for a upfront fee arrangement scam. If you're asked to provide funding for things like "visa application fees" or "filing fees" or "process fees," warning bells should start to go off. If you're not sure of the process or who/when/what/howmuch you should expect to pay or even if you're expected to pay anything at all, you should contact the country's embassey, or do some web investigation to find their government labour web site. A simple google "[country name] jobs" should suffice.

Get a domestic job... (1)

GWBasic (900357) | more than 7 years ago | (#16758721)

You can always get a domestic job for a big multinational corporation. Once you're inside the corporation, work towards getting transfered overseas. It'll take a little longer, but someone else will pay all of your moving expenses.
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