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MSN Music Purchases Not Compatible with Zune

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 7 years ago | from the digital-restrictions-management dept.

453

lewiz writes "The BBC is reporting that music purchased at MSN Music will not play on the new Zune music player." From the article: "The problem has arisen because tracks from the MSN Music site are compatible with the specifications of the Plays For Sure initiative. This was intended to re-assure consumers as it guaranteed that music bought from services backing it would work with players that supported it. MSN Music, Napster, AOL Music Now and Urge all backed Plays For Sure as did many players from hardware makers such as Archos, Creative, Dell and Iriver. In a statement a Microsoft spokesperson said: 'Since Zune is a separate offering that is not part of the Plays For Sure ecosystem, Zune content is not supported on Plays For Sure devices.'"

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453 comments

I can only say... (1)

Nick Fury (624480) | more than 7 years ago | (#16745985)

One word, and that is: Hah!

Re:I can only say... (1)

diersing (679767) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746087)

I would have been funny, if it wasn't utterly predictable.

Re:I can only say... (3, Funny)

vancondo (986849) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746123)

Thats ok, I'm smart, I buy my music from itunes so I'll never run into a problem like this..

-
Anyone need a batshit insane realtor? [vancouvercondo.info]

Re:I can only say... (2, Interesting)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746197)

You won't because iTunes is the easiest to break. You just have to burn it onto a CD.

Re:I can only say... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16746273)

Since Zune is a separate offering that is not part of the Plays For Sure ecosystem
Another ecosystem raped and pillaged.
There's nothing left for MS to harvest in the PFS ecosystem. The native population can just dwindle to extenction. Time to zoom to the zune.

Re:I can only say... (-1, Offtopic)

FedGeek (726738) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746421)

How can one justify supporting (via ISP) adults who have a sexual interest in children? Look, we cannot shoot peds (unfortunately), but DON'T make their child eroticism easier. I'm no huge fan of Verizon, but I have zero problem with this decision.

Re:I can only say... (1)

Nick Fury (624480) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746477)

I get the strange feeling you're in the wrong discussion. Then again...

Re:I can only say... (1)

Moofie (22272) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746563)

What the crap are you talking about?

Re:I can only say... (1)

alexj33 (968322) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746481)

To any of you folks you used the old stuff, People will now unfortunately call y'all the "prays for sure" bunch. I hear wild laughter from the fruit empire off in the distance....

Re:I can only say... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16746553)

There's a phrase for this:

You got zuned! [michaelrobertson.com]

I think Microsoft should have called it ... (1)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 7 years ago | (#16745987)

Plays for Ruse, since there are a lot of people that are feeling tricked at the moment.

Re:I think Microsoft should have called it ... (1)

anothy (83176) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746551)

personally, i think "Plays for Maybe" has a nice ring to it.

Re:I think Microsoft should have called it ... (1)

dcavanaugh (248349) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746615)

Buy now, play maybe.

Not a good customer retention idea... (2, Interesting)

Callaway (842055) | more than 7 years ago | (#16745989)

One would think Microsoft would do their best to retain their customer base from MSN Music.

Re:No Way! (5, Insightful)

mpapet (761907) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746141)

You fail to understand that "Plays For Sure" and all the OEM suckers that bought into it were simply a part of MS's larger experiment.

Zune is, practically speaking, a DRM 2.0 for MS and entertainment mega-corps.

Which goes to show you how much MS actually values companies using their platform in 2006.

Re:No Way! (5, Insightful)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746413)

FTFA: Microsoft has said it will stop selling music from MSN music from 14 November, when Zune goes on sale in the US.
...
From 14 November, customers on the MSN Music store site will now be redirected to Zune Marketplace or, as part of a 2005 legal settlement where Microsoft agreed that no music service would receive greater promotion than RealNetworks, Real Rhapsody.

MS just fscked everyone who got onboard with their PlayForSure program. This move only makes sense if MS decided that the ill will generated by screwing all their existing customers is outweighed by the the marketshare they'll gain from Zune

Re:No Way! (1)

topham (32406) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746483)


I don't know about you, but if I had just been screwed like this I wouldn't pick the Microsoft option...

Re:No Way! (1)

vought (160908) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746559)

MS just fscked everyone who got onboard with their PlayForSure program.

How much you wanna bet Apple licenses FairPlay to Creative and others within the week?

Just thinking that it'd be a nice idea.

Re:No Way! (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746601)

Nope. Apple makes money on hardware. They won't open up fairplay and risk iTunes people buying something other than an ipod.

Re:Not a good customer retention idea... (4, Insightful)

El Torico (732160) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746143)

They're trying to gain market share in a highly competitive market that has one dominant company (I think we all know who), but are unwilling to make the product compatible with their existing service. WTF?

Then they go on with this -

The software giant said it would commit millions of dollars to making Zune a success but acknowledged it could take a long time for that success to become apparent.

They could save a few of those dollars by applying some basic business sense.

Re:Not a good customer retention idea... (1)

Moofie (22272) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746515)

Yeah, all four of them.

Ecosystem to be renamed (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16746001)

Plays For Sure Maybe.

Just wait for the lawyers to come in... (1)

jmp_nyc (895404) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746003)

...and claim that "plays for sure" is an advertising claim that Microsoft has now failed to live up to. :-)
-JMP

Re:Just wait for the lawyers to come in... (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746075)

But the Zune is not a "plays for sure" device. Just as the iPod is not a "plays for sure" device. The Zune hasn't even been released yet, so it's not like they promised anybody that music they bought would play on the device. I think it's a little underhanded because MS makes the device, that you'd think it would support "plays for sure", however, as long as they don't advertise it as such, I don't think they have done anything wrong. I also think it will show the general public just how bad an idea DRM is. Ever have a CD stop playing because a new player came out? Not likely. I think that this, along with people buying a Zune/something else, and not being able to figure out why they can't play their iTunes, will be the events that bring DRM down.

Re:Just wait for the lawyers to come in... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16746315)

It IS misleading. The name is "plays for sure". Meaning: it will definitely play. It doesn't. They lied!

This doesn't really make any difference either way, "plays for sure" doesn't really work on any worthwhile player, not the fashionable ones from Apple or the cheap no-brand ones. The interesting fact that Zune is also not "plays for sure" perhaps means it will be worthwhile.

Re:Just wait for the lawyers to come in... (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746541)

But Plays for sure doesn't play on your iPod, so it was never really plays for sure. It was only ever plays for sure on devices that were marked as plays for sure, which is a very small subset of devices.

No no, it doesn't count (1)

tkrotchko (124118) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746523)

They had their fingers crossed when they made that promise.

Yes, DRM is inherently evil (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16746009)

People keep saying DRM isn't inherently evil. Why?

Over the past week, I've heard a number of people claim that there's nothing inherently evil about DRM: that it's just a neutral tool, and you can do good or evil things with it. I'm always a little surprised to hear this. After all, the media cartel calls it "Digital Rights Management;" that kind of Orwellian doublespeak makes it hard to think positive thoughts about it.

The point of DRM is to keep someone from making full use of some data they have, and I can't imagine what's good about that. It's certainly bad when it keeps me from putting my music on all my devices. It's bad when it keeps me from recording the TV shows I watch, too. And even when it has potential security applications, I think it's bad. Sure, a company could use DRM-like technology to keep its internal correspondence away from competitors and journalists. But do we want to live in a society where the New York Times can't get a copy of the Pentagon Papers?

If DRM isn't inherently evil, it certainly doesn't have anything going for it.

Re:Yes, DRM is inherently evil (4, Funny)

ResidntGeek (772730) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746043)

that kind of Orwellian doublespeak makes it hard to think positive thoughts about it.
Then you're not trying hard enough, comrade!

Re:Yes, DRM is inherently evil (0, Offtopic)

FuzzyDaddy (584528) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746595)

5 years ago, on 9/11/2001, 3200 people died of heart disease or cancer.

Bet most of them had a chance to say goodbye and wrap up their affairs...

Re:Yes, DRM is inherently evil (2, Insightful)

MindStalker (22827) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746145)

Well if you use PGP to sign and encrypt your messages to send you have effectivly used a form of DRM.
But I digress.

Re:Yes, DRM is inherently evil (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746219)

But that's me protecting stuff that I want to protect. I do not want my music protected. I want to be able to play it on any device, and I don't want to have to ask Microsoft for permission to do so. It's the reason I don't buy iTunes, because the next player I buy may not be an iPod, and I don't want to repurchase all of my music, or even have to find some way to break the DRM.

Re:Yes, DRM is inherently evil (4, Informative)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746225)

No, that's encryption. Encryption is Alice sending a message to Bob while preventing Eve from seeing it.
DRM is Alice sending a message to Bob while preventing Bob from seeing it.
DRM is a (moronic) form of encryption, not the other way around.

Re:Yes, DRM is inherently evil (1)

spitzak (4019) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746287)

Uh, no you havn't. What you are describing is encryption. Encryption *may* be used by DRM, but is not necessary.

"DRM" means that somehow (magic) a person is able to observe the data but not copy it.

This is in fact impossible, however you can approach it by trying to prevent high-quality copies by making it difficult to attach a device that can copy the data at a point that the high-quality data is available. A common solution is to use encryption and try to very tightly couple the decryption portion with the conversion to low-quality data and as late in the process as possible. This is however completely different than any type of real encryption, as the hostile party, by definition, has in their possession the entire decryption mechanism and the keys.

Re:Yes, DRM is inherently evil (5, Funny)

DeadChobi (740395) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746233)

minitrue mark speech doubleplusungood. miniluv make writer unlive plusquick

Re:Yes, DRM is inherently evil (3, Informative)

LinuxIsRetarded (995083) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746289)

The point of DRM is to keep someone from making full use of some data they have
No, it's not. The point is to prevent illegal distribution of copyrighted material [webopedia.com] . The drawbacks of its implementation may include preventing a legitimate licensee from playing the audio or video files on his/her various devices, but that is most definitely not the original intent.

Re:Yes, DRM is inherently evil (3, Interesting)

Secrity (742221) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746409)

"The drawbacks of its implementation may include preventing a legitimate licensee from playing the audio or video files on his/her various devices, but that is most definitely not the original intent."

It might be possible that it wasn't the original intent of content providers to use DRM to force users to buy multiple copies of the same material in order to use it on multiple devices, but I am sure that they now consider it to be a dandy feature; a feature that they don't want to lose.

Not sure I believe that. (4, Insightful)

Kadin2048 (468275) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746425)

All depends on whose Kool-Aid you're drinking.

I find it impossible to not believe that one of the key selling points of DRM, is that it forces a consumer to re-purchase the same content over and over and over.

You want to listen to a track on your portable player? Sure, $1.
Want to listen to it on your cell phone? $2.50.
Want to burn it to a CD, maybe another $0.50.
Want to stream it over the internet, so you can hear it from your office/friend's computer/wherever? You're S.O.L.

You say it's to prevent "illegal distribution" but I'd argue that it could just as easily be to prevent format and space-shifting, since the 'loss' due to format shifting (if you consider the income that they wouldn't receive as a result of space and format-shifting a 'loss') is probably equal if not greater than the losses due to interpersonal sharing. With 'ideal' DRM, you could charge consumers per-track, per-listen, and then charge for every format and every possible way to enjoy the content. The revenue possibilities are unimaginable. Only the shortsighted see it as just a method to prevent seventh-graders from swapping discs.

At the end of the day it's academic whether the intent is to prevent "piracy" and it also prevents format-shifting, or whether it's intended to do both from the vary beginning. In most implementations, it does do both.

In my mind, regardless of what effect it might have on piracy, if it curtails established consumer rights or Fair Use, then it ought to be unacceptable. My ability to listen to the same piece of legitimately purchased music in various locations and in various formats is not an 'acceptable loss' in some epic battle between the valiant protectors of Intellectual Property and the American Way and the Evil Pirates.

Re:Yes, DRM is inherently evil (1)

Waffle Iron (339739) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746513)

The point is to prevent illegal distribution of copyrighted material.

That's what the hardware manufacturers might tell you. However, the actual point of DRM hardware is to stake out a vertical region of the digital media and digital player market, wall it off with proprietary formats and patents, lock customers into the region, and lock competitors out. This way, the hardware manufacturers can now grab a piece of the lucrative media sales pie instead of being relegated to single-digit margins selling little made-in-China gadgets. Preventing interoperability is the key aspect of this strategy.

Hardware vendors don't give a rat's ass about illicit copying. If that were the only consideration, you wouldn't be able to find anyone who would manufacture DRM'd gear. Those who buy into into the "illegal copying" justification for DRM are simply being duped.

"unauthorized" not "illegal" (2, Insightful)

openright (968536) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746535)


"legal" or "illegal" has nothing to do with DRM.

DRM does not suddenly unlock with the material is public domain or the copyright is expired or the use is a "fair use".

Perhaps, DRM attempts to prevent "unauthorized" use or distribution.

Yes, I know the marketing with pirates and stuff, wants you to think that this is a natural way of preventing illegal activity similar to robbing boats.

But DRM is a distribution and use control mechanism.
DRM does not prevent activity according to legal code. It prevents activity according to what use the DRM'er allows.

You cannot really say what the point/purpose of DRM is, as the true purpose may not match what is stated.
You can only say what DRM does. And that is to prevent certain use of material.

Try wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Rights_Manage ment [wikipedia.org]

Re:Yes, DRM is inherently evil (2, Insightful)

user317 (656027) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746293)


If DRM isn't inherently evil, it certainly doesn't have anything going for it.


I can certainly see lots of good things from a technology that will let you send a message that can only be received by the intended target, and that the message will be destroyed as soon as its read. That is essentially what perfect DRM would enable us to do, I can control where the data is going and how its read.

Re:Yes, DRM is inherently evil (1)

Overly Critical Guy (663429) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746467)

Well, I don't pay attention to any position that uses the absolutist word "evil" to describe opposition to a rights management technology. To me, evil means rapists, murderers, Hitler, and professional wrestling. When people use the word evil, they're using hyperbole and emotional connotation to try to convince people of a position, and it just turns me off. Convince me using facts and reason, pros and cons. Don't tell me some copyright protection scheme is evil, because it's just stupid geek hyperbole.

Re:Yes, DRM is inherently evil (1)

kfg (145172) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746619)

If DRM isn't inherently evil, it certainly doesn't have anything going for it.

And that's why your root password is "12345," just like the combination on your luggage.

KFG

I have just 3 words for the new music player... (1)

WaterDamage (719017) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746011)

The Zune is 100% DOA

Go buy a Sony Walkman, now with free DRM any spyware!

Another reason (1)

gullevek (174152) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746013)

why, if I do, I still buy normal CDs.

Different player? Doesn't support my current format. Well, if everything breaks, I can always re-rip them and do not need to re-buy them.

Re:Another reason (4, Insightful)

bigbigbison (104532) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746323)

I've more or less just sworn off buying music period. The last time I went to buy a cd, I spent ten minutes examining the small print to make sure it wasn't broken with copy protection of its own.

Call me crazy but I don't want to feel like an untrusted criminal for BUYING music. Treat me like a criminal, then I might as well act like one.

Private copying is the way! (1)

Tester (591) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746015)

That's why I don't buy DRM'ed music. But instead copy music legally for my personal use, using my right to private copying (see the Canadian Copyright Act [justice.gc.ca] ).

Suddenly... (1)

Rachel Lucid (964267) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746019)

Supporting the Apple Monopoly on Music doesn't sound like such a bad idea, eh?

Re:Suddenly... (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746119)

Since when does Apple have a monopoly on music? There's these places called music stores. You can find them in malls. They sell music on shiny plastic discs. These discs are easily copied onto your computer, and onto any portable device. You can play them in your car, on your home stereo, and in many other places.

Re:Suddenly... (1)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746159)

At least it plays well on my iPod. I think Microsoft is Blowing it chance to be a serious competitor to the iPod. Microsoft spent so much time on perfecting the hardware and software (eligibly) but they forgot to get people (including themselves) to have product for it. Get an iPod download iTunes it works both on you Mac and Windows (Better then windows only) and bang your in music heaven. Vs. paying the same (or near the same price) for zunes Install whatever Zune Software or use Crap Windows stuff. Then try to find someone who supports Zunes or go to the illegal route and get sued by the RIAA.

Re:Suddenly... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16746169)

Who does she think she is? That girl has tangled with the wrong man! No one says "no" to Gaston! Heh heh. Darn right. Dismissed! Rejected! Publicly Humiliated! Why, it's more than I can bear. More beer? What for? Nothing helps. I'm disgraced. Who, you? Never! Gaston, you've got to pull yourself together.

Gosh it disturbs me to see you, Gaston Looking so down in the dumps
Every guy here'd love to be you, Gaston
Even when taking your lumps There's no man in town as admired as you
You're ev'ryone's favorite guy Ev'ryone's awed and inspired by you
And it's not very hard to see why

No one's slick as Gaston No one's quick as Gaston
No one's neck's as incredibly thick as Gaston
For there's no man in town half as manly
Perfect, a pure paragon
You can ask any Tom, Dick or Stanley
And they'll tell you whose team they prefer to be on

No one's been like Gaston
A king pin like Gaston
No one's got a swell cleft in his chin like Gaston
As a specimen, yes, I'm intimidating
My- what a guy, that Gaston

Give five "hurrahs!" Give twelve "hip-hips!" Gaston is the best And the rest is all drips

No one fights like Gaston
Douses lights like Gaston
In a wrestling match nobody bites like Gaston
For there's no one as burly and brawny
As you see I've got biceps to spare
Not a bit of him's scraggly or scrawny
(That's right!)
And ev'ry last inch of me's covered with hair

No one hits like Gaston
Matches wits like Gaston
In a spitting match nobody spits like Gaston
I'm espcially good at expectorating
(Ptooey!) Ten points for Gaston!

When I was a lad I ate four dozen eggs Ev'ry morning to help me get large And now that I'm grown I eat five dozen eggs So I'm roughly the size of a barge

No one shoots like Gaston Makes those beauts like Gaston Then goes tromping around wearing boots like Gaston I use antlers in all of my decorating Say it again Who's a man among men? And then say it once more Who's the hero next door? Who's a super success? Don't you know? Can't you guess? Ask his fans and his five hangers-on There's just one guy in town who's got all of it down And his name's G-A-S- T - G-A-S-T - E - G-A-S-T-O - oh! GASTON!!!

Haha (0, Troll)

JRWR (1001828) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746021)

Just goes to show you, That Anything inside microsuck just doesnt want to even work with it self, let alone other products

Oblig Nelson quote: (1)

SeaFox (739806) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746035)

(Pointing at MS Plays-for-Sure)

"Ha ha - you've been usurped! That's right, I said usurped."

Re:Oblig Nelson quote: (1)

42Penguins (861511) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746407)

Ha Ha indeed.
But doesn't the usurpee have to have power to begin with for the usurper to take it?
The MP3 player market has been pretty solid for Apple the last few years. I think this is more of MS blowing their chance to BE usurpers.

huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16746049)

"Zune content is not supported on Plays For Sure devices"

yeah.. but the question is why Plays For Sure content is not supported on Zune players

Not sure it plays for sure? (1)

vancondo (986849) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746055)

Oh sure, it plays for sure on these four devices, but not those. The new thing is better anyways, it surely plays for real for now! Click this button and agree to the hidden contract, don't you love living in the future?

sure..

-
Anyone need a batshit insane realtor? [vancouvercondo.info]

anyone surprised? (1)

tomz16 (992375) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746065)

Aim at foot...
Pull trigger...

Rename "Plays For Sure" (1)

krell (896769) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746067)

as "Plays Who Knows the Hell Where?"

Re:Rename "Plays For Sure" (1)

Amazing Quantum Man (458715) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746261)

No, it's "Plays For Sure... except on our own hardware."

Re:Rename "Plays For Sure" (1)

ewhac (5844) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746305)

I recommend, "Plays for Shit."

Schwab

a compatibility issue? (1)

dingDaShan (818817) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746073)

Microsoft has a compatibility issue?

I don't understand this: (1)

hjf (703092) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746077)

"The BBC is reporting that music purchased at MSN Music will not play on the new Zune music player"

and

"Since Zune is a separate offering that is not part of the Plays For Sure ecosystem, Zune content is not supported on Plays For Sure devices.'"

what? is ZUNE content not supported on PLAYSFORSURE devices, or is PLAYSFORSURE content not supported on ZUNE? or both??

Re:I don't understand this: (1)

hullabalucination (886901) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746271)

what? is ZUNE content not supported on PLAYSFORSURE devices, or is PLAYSFORSURE content not supported on ZUNE? or both??


Here's how I keep it straight in my head: Any product I buy that has the "PlaysForSure" logo and slogan associated with it may or may not Play For Sure with other products. Depending.

I hope this helps. It has certainly kept me from getting confused about the PlaysForSure concept. Or not.

* * * * * *

I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it.
--Mark Twain

Re:I don't understand this: (1)

xlordtyrantx (958605) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746607)

"Since Zune is a separate offering that is not part of the Plays For Sure ecosystem, Zune content is not supported on Plays For Sure devices... We will not be performing compatibility testing for non-Zune devices, and we will not make changes to our software to ensure compatibility with non-Zune devices."

I fail to see anything the article says being backed up by anything Microsoft said.

It says the Zune marketplace content is not Plays For Sure content. It does NOT say that the Zune is not Plays For Sure compatible.

I think Deathbane27 had this right. . . it says, Zune content is not going to work on Plays for Sure devices, not the other way around. Whats really going on here?

talk about missing the point (1)

Fulcrum of Evil (560260) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746081)

Now, who exactly is the target audience? People too stupid to know better?

Re:talk about missing the point (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16746155)

Now, who exactly is the target audience? People too stupid to know better?

FOX 'news' viewers ?

Re:talk about missing the point (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746161)

Is that the same target audience that continues to use IE, even though they've gotten tons of virus from simply visiting a web site, or continue to use windows, even though they've gotten viruses from doing nothing except hooking their computer up to the internet? Sounds like a pretty large target audience to me.

Re:talk about missing the point (1)

Fulcrum of Evil (560260) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746503)

Is that the same target audience that continues to use IE

IE comes bundled with your PC and most people are barely aware of things like firefox. This is a piece of hardware that you have to buy. Besides, are you really suggesting that MS shovel any old crap out there and hope people buy it?

the obvious joke... (5, Funny)

suzerain (245705) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746083)

This would of course be a huge problem...if MSN Music had any customers.

will anyone informed buy a Zune? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16746109)

I'm sure they will sell some to parents this xmas. Get tedy to hear kids groaning from coast to coast.

Played for Sure... (1)

Chordonblue (585047) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746111)

It's doublespeak - like Windows Genuwine or Darl telling us how licensing will 'get you clean...' DRM in any form is a scam - this is proof of the obvious.

Plays For Sure? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16746147)

Not so sure.

Article writer lacking in reading comprehension (5, Informative)

Deathbane27 (884594) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746157)

"Since Zune is a separate offering that is not part of the Plays For Sure ecosystem, Zune content is not supported on Plays For Sure devices... We will not be performing compatibility testing for non-Zune devices, and we will not make changes to our software to ensure compatibility with non-Zune devices."

I fail to see anything the article says being backed up by anything Microsoft said.

It says the Zune marketplace content is not Plays For Sure content. It does NOT say that the Zune is not Plays For Sure compatible.

Re:Article writer lacking in reading comprehension (1)

KG6 (1007815) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746403)

Agreed, I have an email off to Micro$oft right now, I doubt it will get answered, but if the media is wrong I'm sure Micro$oft will act quickly to redeem itself.

Re:Article writer lacking in reading comprehension (1)

Keeper (56691) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746573)

The Zune is not a PFS device. Slashdot is about 2 months late to the hate fest over this stuff ...

Strategic, but silly move (1)

mveloso (325617) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746175)

I'm sure Zune is not a Plays for Sure product so Microsoft could convince their partners that Zune doesn't compete with them. Any PfS user would be unlikely to move to Zune due to the cost of refilling the library. Of course, PfS subscription users would be OK - assming Zune has a subscription feature of its own (does it? I'm not sure).

The thing is, the same could be said for iPod users: they're unlikely to switch to Zune if they can't move their purchased songs...assuming that they actually bought their songs.

However, the third party device makers (and DRM'd music stores) are probably looking at the writing on the wall right now, and not liking what they're reading. There are only three DRM formats in widespread use: Apple's, Microsoft's, and Audible's. As a third-party licensee, why would I license my DRM from a competitor? Especially a competitor like Microsoft, who has a long history of being anti-social...and the ability to blow $5.4 billion dollar for years on products with no thought of return (MS home & entertainment cumulative losses, FY 2002-2005).

Apple doesn't license its DRM, and even if it did it's unclear if it would do any of the other device makers any good. Audible, well, it's unclear if audible would license its DRM or not. It actually is supported on pretty much every device, including iPods. It could be that its distribution agreement with everyone precludes licensing, but if not, audible could actually stand to make some money as the Switzerland of DRM.

As for the PfS crowd, it must be lonely when your competitors are Apple and Microsoft. I suppose that means that everyone will be herded into their little niches, and turn into iPod and Zune accessory makers?

Re:Strategic, but silly move (1)

DeadChobi (740395) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746321)

If, in the end, our only two choices are the iPod and the Zune, then we, as consumers, have all lost. Sure, the iPod *looks* slick, but the 4 year old Rio player that I have has a better interface. Granted it isn't a smooth, flat card, but I actually like the way it looks. It would really suck for me if I couldn't get anything other than an iPod, as I don't particularly care for them.

In short, I would like the opportunity to be different even if I never get to take advantage of it.

DRM Et al (1)

TheRecklessWanderer (929556) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746189)

I see people writing about the evils of DRM and the heart of the problem is that if people didn't copy music and everybody paid for what they enjoyed, there would be no need for DRM, so, realistically, it's our own fault that DRM is needed.

There are all sorts of excuses out there about why people copy music. There are so few good CDs out there, the artists make enough money, the studios are ripping people off. Obviously there are so many more, but here's the thing. The artists worked to produce that album, the producers took a risk to produce that album. Damn people, no one expects you to work for free, and to give away your life's blood for free, so why should artists do it for free?? They have families to support, and lives to live just like everybody else, so what is the problem?

Having said that, I don't like the RIAAs heavy handed tactics and draconian tactics when it comes to enforcing their views on everybody. I don't like how the studios are ruining the new HDDVD standards, and I think it has great potential to ruin the new formats.

But here's the thing people, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

Re:DRM Et al (1)

Elyscape (882517) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746447)

if people didn't copy music and everybody paid for what they enjoyed, there would be no need for DRM Of course. The problem with this statement is that it's somewhat akin to saying, "If people never did anything wrong, we wouldn't need laws". While it's perfectly true, it's also quite useless, as you cannot realistically expect every single person to be righteous enough.

Re:DRM Et al (1)

Anne Honime (828246) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746571)

I see people writing about the evils of DRM and the heart of the problem is that if people didn't copy music and everybody paid for what they enjoyed, there would be no need for DRM, so, realistically, it's our own fault that DRM is needed.

That's a fairy tale ; the recording industry pulled the copying stunt long before the copying had un actual economic impact. If you could use a time machine, you could notice such concerns raising in the late 80's. I'd be more inclined to believe the computing industry leaded by microsoft sold the DRM crap to the media industry long before we, consumers, actually noticed it coming, as a way to indefinitely lease the contents instead of selling them only once, and the media industry bought it on the spot forseeing enormous profits.

Putting the blame on the consumers when most of them simply used rights they were granted by laws at the time is simply propaganda.

Outch! (1)

no-body (127863) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746199)

Dang - another hole in the foot!

Could you mess up a launch worse? (1)

The Slaughter (887603) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746241)

Only Sony could mess up a launch worse than Microsoft. The Zune is just going to piss off all of the Microsoft Allies (Creative and so on) AND piss off the consumers by not letting them play music that they already now own.

Zune will have it's own store (1)

Shimdaddy (898354) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746247)

I had a chance to ask Robbie Bach, the president of Microsoft's entertainment & devices division, why the Zune wouldn't support PlaysForSure DRM'd songs. His answer was actually pretty heartening. PlaysForSure has to support a wide range of players, because the specification for PlaysForSure players is somewhat loose. Regardless, they want a very tight system with the Zune -- you buy music from the Microsoft store, and put it on the Zune, and It Just Works®. Allowing PlaysForSure music on the device would break this system (similar to how fairplay'd music only comes from iTunes) and they don't want to focus on supporting a wide range of different devices. They want to make it work for the Zune, and they want to make it work well -- he recognized that this is why Apple's system was so far ahead.

How would it break it? (2, Informative)

Tony (765) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746395)

How would that break the system? The iPod supports other music formats, not just Fairplay. The Zune could support PlaysForSure, which Microsoft pushed onto *other* PMP vendors, *and* Microsoft's PlaysForZune (or whatever). Then this wouldn't be a slashdot article at all.

This is really a bizarre move that makes it seem like Microsoft just wants an iron fist, to make sure the Zune only works with their music store and doesn't work with anything else at all, forcing customers to their music store.

This is why the whole system is fucked, and needs rebooting.

Re:How would it break it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16746569)

This is really a bizarre move that makes it seem like Microsoft just wants an iron fist, to make sure the Zune only works with their music store and doesn't work with anything else at all, forcing customers to their music store.

This sounds familiar... almost like another popular MP3 player that only supports one music store which just happens to be owned by the company that sells it.

Re:Zune will have it's own store (1)

ewhac (5844) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746415)

Just when you thought Micros~1 couldn't get any more stupid...

This is either PR bluster designed to obscure either that A) They couldn't get Janus to work; or B) their marketing people have completely jumped the shark, and have misconceptualized the appeal of digital music in general and the iPod in particular.

The whole point of digital music is that you can move it around to where you need it. If I need it on my PC, I drop it there. When I need it on my laptop, I drop a copy there. When I want to hear it over my TV, I point the TiVo at my PC file server and have it play. When I want it in my car, I put it on an SD card, shove it in my Zodiac, and go.

In a perverse way, it actually doesn't surprise me that Microsoft can't accomplish that one simple thing.

Schwab

What does DRM mean? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16746253)

DRM = Defective Recorded Media
DRM = Digitally Restricted Media
DRM = Definitely Rented Media
DRM = (Customers) Don't Really Matter
DRM = Don't Rewind Movies

Anyone else?

Re:What does DRM mean? (1)

MMC Monster (602931) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746397)

Why not just say a file (or system) is infected with DRM?

Good example (0)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746319)

Of why they cant be trusted, and with luck THIS will get to the common man and be noticed.

That's nothing, because..... (1)

croto (909381) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746343)

In Soviet Russia.... music plays you!

Yep Zune (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16746351)

is so bad that not even MSN music wants to be played on it

In the foot. (2, Interesting)

X-treme-LLama (178013) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746359)

Way to go Microsoft. You took the gun, loaded it, aimed it squarely at Apple and the iPod, and then turned it around and shot yourself in the foot.

I'm not an MS basher any more than saying I don't like most of their software. I don't think they're utterly evil... But wow, that takes a special commitment to poor business decisions. Launch an system called "plays for sure" and then manufacture a incompatible product. I'm impressed.

What's sad is that they'll still probably sell a few to people who can't see passed the advertising and MS hype.

Re:In the foot. (1)

X-treme-LLama (178013) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746381)

Replying to myself to save people the trouble of stupidity. I know they didn't single-handedly launch "Plays for Sure" but they did champion the hell out of it. On second thought it does seem like a great way to bring every one of their competitors -aside from apple- into a sub-standard system and then launch a product that competes outside of it.. Maybe I should re-think that evil thing....

dumb meets dumber (4, Funny)

v1 (525388) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746375)

a Microsoft spokesperson said: 'Since Zune is a separate offering that is not part of the Plays For Sure ecosystem, Zune content is not supported on Plays For Sure devices.'"

Just when you thought microsoft could not pull anything stupider than they had lately... I mean really, what is this? Yes we have here a standard and we are backing it and we are making it the universally compatible technology, but wait, except for this major new product we're releasing. Doesn't this just incredibly piss off everyone - the customers, the manufacturers, the retailers? What on earth could they possibly be getting in exchange for all this horrid customer ill-will?

Bad Bill! No cookie!

Re:dumb meets dumber (1)

Shados (741919) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746435)

I thought Bill was (at least partly) out of the picture now :) But yeah, this is totally retarded. I really wonder who the guy who thought that up was thinking when he woke up...

Bring on the Russians! (2, Insightful)

mickq (201389) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746429)

Its because of idiotic, selfish moves like this that Microsoft, Sony etc will eventually lose the whole digital rights battle.

Companies like AllofMP3.com offer the consumers what they want - simply to pay a fee (ok, a small one!) and as a result have a file they can play on whatever products they have that support that common file type.

Unimpeded MP3 is enough to keep most of the world happy....but the major greedy companies just cant cope with the concept. Its not THAT much to ask for.

I still reckon a flat monthly fee to get access to everything is the way to go - and I would pay it. And in case MS and Sony are reading this, the average person would expect that fee to be LESS than their rent or mortgage payment.

There is no denying that getting a fee like that from just about everyone is likely to earn them more revenue than getting a little bit from some people - and encouraging a thriving trade in royalty free MP3 files where no-one pays a cent.

Microsoft IS the new IBM (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16746445)

This is the kind of crap that made IBM so hated in the old days. They would partner with some (usually much smaller) partner and offer a joint product. The partner would be a specialist in an area where IBM didn't have an offering. Then, after a few years IBM would drop the partner come out with their own competing product. Often they would get sued, and sometimes they would loose, but the partner would amost always be knocked out, and if they didn't go out of business, they never got over it.

The only real question is if Microsoft will ever go through the kind of change that IBM did, and stop being such a bad business player.

Re:Microsoft IS the new IBM (1)

I'm Don Giovanni (598558) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746501)

Oh please.

Microsoft is still supporting PlaysForSure, but they're now doing it through URGE rather than MSN Music Store. URGE is the default online music store of WMP11, replacing MSN Music Store, which was the default online music store for WMP10. WMP10 and WMP11 also support lots of other PlaysForSure online stores (walmart music, aol music, GiantMusic (which provides its music in WMA Lossles), etc.

Oh, and slashdot's headline for this story is old old old. It's been known for months that Zune is not a PlaysForSure device. The new info is that Microsoft is shutting down the store portion of MSN Music, whose buy links will refer to Rhapsody and Zune. But again, MSN Music isn't going to be WMP's prime online store anyway, URGE is.

FUD (1)

Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746451)

From the article Microsoft said that its Windows Media Player will recognize Zune content which might make it possible to put the content on a Plays For Sure device. However, it said it would not provide customer support to anyone attempting this.

They just say that they won't provide support for getting the music on the device. Its clear from the statement that if they were on the player it would work.

I really don't understand why people want to make up stories about microsoft. There is enough about microsoft to make fun of with out making stuff up,

Next time you're tempted to laugh at Stallman (2, Insightful)

straponego (521991) | more than 7 years ago | (#16746627)

...realize that if you give douchebags, er, sorry, capitalists and habitual defectors, a mechanism for screwing you over (e.g. DRM), they will screw you over. And that's basically what RMS has been fighting against. And this little scam is yet another proof of that.
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