MSN Music Purchases Not Compatible with Zune 453
lewiz writes "The BBC is reporting that music purchased at MSN Music will not play on the new Zune music player." From the article: "The problem has arisen because tracks from the MSN Music site are compatible with the specifications of the Plays For Sure initiative. This was intended to re-assure consumers as it guaranteed that music bought from services backing it would work with players that supported it. MSN Music, Napster, AOL Music Now and Urge all backed Plays For Sure as did many players from hardware makers such as Archos, Creative, Dell and Iriver. In a statement a Microsoft spokesperson said: 'Since Zune is a separate offering that is not part of the Plays For Sure ecosystem, Zune content is not supported on Plays For Sure devices.'"
I think Microsoft should have called it ... (Score:2)
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I'm sure Microsoft will compensate both customers (Score:3, Interesting)
Seriously, is there a single person in the world who doesn't shrivel with revulsion when they see the letters "MSN"?
Either that or the years and years of ignoring/closing windows with "MSN" at the top will have created a subconscious filter to block it out.
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Not a good customer retention idea... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:No Way! (Score:5, Insightful)
Zune is, practically speaking, a DRM 2.0 for MS and entertainment mega-corps.
Which goes to show you how much MS actually values companies using their platform in 2006.
Re:No Way! (Score:5, Insightful)
...
From 14 November, customers on the MSN Music store site will now be redirected to Zune Marketplace or, as part of a 2005 legal settlement where Microsoft agreed that no music service would receive greater promotion than RealNetworks, Real Rhapsody.
MS just fscked everyone who got onboard with their PlayForSure program. This move only makes sense if MS decided that the ill will generated by screwing all their existing customers is outweighed by the the marketshare they'll gain from Zune
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I don't know about you, but if I had just been screwed like this I wouldn't pick the Microsoft option...
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How much you wanna bet Apple licenses FairPlay to Creative and others within the week?
Just thinking that it'd be a nice idea.
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JON
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Apple failed to open the Mac and has managed to keep 100% of 5% of the market, down from ~50% at peak. Contrast with the very open Intel x86 standard. (not just the chip, the whole architecture has competition)
Sony has introduced countless (now) irrelevent proprietary media types all of which either failed to ever get traction or started with a bang, but dropped off until they disappeared. Contrast with the very open CD media standard, and even the very licensabl
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My MP3 player is actually my Motorola RAZR V3i Mobile phone. I got it on contract for £0, to which I added a pair headphones (£12) plus a 1g Micro SD card (£28), for a total of £40. Its a certainly capable phone, with class 1 bluetooth which pairs well with my car bluetooth handsfree, and email capabilities. Its small enough, and has Drag and Drop MP3 playback - It has a standard Mini USB port, and can be set to appear as a USB mass storage device with no need for drivers, un
Re:Not a good customer retention idea... (Score:5, Insightful)
Then they go on with this -
They could save a few of those dollars by applying some basic business sense.
Typical MS arrogance... (Score:3, Interesting)
Here they obviously have decided that the Zune will be the killer player and they don't need their former partners because "they're microsoft". They screw over existing customers and partners, to bring forth a product that may or may not be adequate (the iPod is sure as hell adequate by the market behavior), all the while not even bothering to undercut the
Just wait for the lawyers to come in... (Score:2)
-JMP
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No no, it doesn't count (Score:2)
Yes, DRM is inherently evil (Score:5, Interesting)
Over the past week, I've heard a number of people claim that there's nothing inherently evil about DRM: that it's just a neutral tool, and you can do good or evil things with it. I'm always a little surprised to hear this. After all, the media cartel calls it "Digital Rights Management;" that kind of Orwellian doublespeak makes it hard to think positive thoughts about it.
The point of DRM is to keep someone from making full use of some data they have, and I can't imagine what's good about that. It's certainly bad when it keeps me from putting my music on all my devices. It's bad when it keeps me from recording the TV shows I watch, too. And even when it has potential security applications, I think it's bad. Sure, a company could use DRM-like technology to keep its internal correspondence away from competitors and journalists. But do we want to live in a society where the New York Times can't get a copy of the Pentagon Papers?
If DRM isn't inherently evil, it certainly doesn't have anything going for it.
Re:Yes, DRM is inherently evil (Score:5, Funny)
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But I digress.
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First off, that's simply false. Libraries have been 'file sharing' networks for books for all of history, and yet we have a thriving book publishing industry.
Secondly, assuming you are right, why should I care if the RIAA folds and goes home? They no longer perform any useful service. We're not
Re:Yes, DRM is inherently evil (Score:5, Informative)
DRM is Alice sending a message to Bob while preventing Bob from seeing it.
DRM is a (moronic) form of encryption, not the other way around.
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"DRM" means that somehow (magic) a person is able to observe the data but not copy it.
This is in fact impossible, however you can approach it by trying to prevent high-quality copies by making it difficult to attach a device that can copy the data at a point that the high-quality data is available. A common solution is to use encryption and try to very tightly couple the decryption portion with th
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Re:Yes, DRM is inherently evil (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Yes, DRM is inherently evil (Score:4, Interesting)
It might be possible that it wasn't the original intent of content providers to use DRM to force users to buy multiple copies of the same material in order to use it on multiple devices, but I am sure that they now consider it to be a dandy feature; a feature that they don't want to lose.
Not sure I believe that. (Score:5, Insightful)
I find it impossible to not believe that one of the key selling points of DRM, is that it forces a consumer to re-purchase the same content over and over and over.
You want to listen to a track on your portable player? Sure, $1.
Want to listen to it on your cell phone? $2.50.
Want to burn it to a CD, maybe another $0.50.
Want to stream it over the internet, so you can hear it from your office/friend's computer/wherever? You're S.O.L.
You say it's to prevent "illegal distribution" but I'd argue that it could just as easily be to prevent format and space-shifting, since the 'loss' due to format shifting (if you consider the income that they wouldn't receive as a result of space and format-shifting a 'loss') is probably equal if not greater than the losses due to interpersonal sharing. With 'ideal' DRM, you could charge consumers per-track, per-listen, and then charge for every format and every possible way to enjoy the content. The revenue possibilities are unimaginable. Only the shortsighted see it as just a method to prevent seventh-graders from swapping discs.
At the end of the day it's academic whether the intent is to prevent "piracy" and it also prevents format-shifting, or whether it's intended to do both from the vary beginning. In most implementations, it does do both.
In my mind, regardless of what effect it might have on piracy, if it curtails established consumer rights or Fair Use, then it ought to be unacceptable. My ability to listen to the same piece of legitimately purchased music in various locations and in various formats is not an 'acceptable loss' in some epic battle between the valiant protectors of Intellectual Property and the American Way and the Evil Pirates.
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That's what the hardware manufacturers might tell you. However, the actual point of DRM hardware is to stake out a vertical region of the digital media and digital player market, wall it off with proprietary formats and patents, lock customers into the region, and lock competitors out. This way, the hardware manufacturers can now grab a piece of the lucrative media sales pie instead of being relegated to single-digit margins selling li
"unauthorized" not "illegal" (Score:2, Insightful)
"legal" or "illegal" has nothing to do with DRM.
DRM does not suddenly unlock with the material is public domain or the copyright is expired or the use is a "fair use".
Perhaps, DRM attempts to prevent "unauthorized" use or distribution.
Yes, I know the marketing with pirates and stuff, wants you to think that this is a natural way of preventing illegal activity similar to robbing boats.
But DRM is a distribution and use control mechanism.
DRM does not prevent activity according to legal code. It prevents activi
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Not true in the USA. If you attempt to get around it and you live in the USA you are likely breaking the law.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Co pyright_Act [wikipedia.org]
"DRM does not suddenly unlock with the material is public domain or the copyright is expired or the use is a "fair use"."
Very good point - in theory. But when the copyright expires, people will likely be using an entirely different technology. For example, music that is coming out of co
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The point of DRM is to keep someone from making full use of some data they have, and I can't imagine what's good about that. It's certainly bad when it keeps me from putting my music on all my devices.
The problem is that many people fail to see that locking WMA files to Microsoft Plays For Sure devices is essentially no different than locking your DVD purchases to a DVD player.
But do we want to live in a society where the New York Times can't get a copy of the
Re:Yes, DRM is inherently evil (Score:4, Interesting)
No, but the privilege of keeping documents secret is abused far too often. I would argue it's abused more often than it's used correctly. Of course, because I don't get to see what's classified, I can't know this for sure.
Hold on there. The property belongs to the public; we're just renting it to the creators for a limited amount of time to reward them for benefitting the public good.
The Constitution of the United States would seem to disagree with you. It may not be a human right, but it's a granted right nonetheless.
It's not that simple. The movie in the movie theater, the music on the CD, and the software in my computer? I own it, along with my neighbors. By intentionally making it hard to use, the media companies are stealing my property from me. It's no different than if I borrowed your car and forgot to return it for your entire lifetime.
The rich media companies would like you to believe that they are hounded by criminals every day, but that's simply not the case. They are the guilty party.
And no, I'm not a troll.
Another reason (Score:2)
Different player? Doesn't support my current format. Well, if everything breaks, I can always re-rip them and do not need to re-buy them.
Re:Another reason (Score:5, Insightful)
Call me crazy but I don't want to feel like an untrusted criminal for BUYING music. Treat me like a criminal, then I might as well act like one.
Private copying is the way! (Score:2)
Suddenly... (Score:2)
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Bad Idea (Score:2)
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Oblig Nelson quote: (Score:2)
"Ha ha - you've been usurped! That's right, I said usurped."
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But doesn't the usurpee have to have power to begin with for the usurper to take it?
The MP3 player market has been pretty solid for Apple the last few years. I think this is more of MS blowing their chance to BE usurpers.
Rename "Plays For Sure" (Score:2)
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Schwab
talk about missing the point (Score:2)
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Is that the same target audience that continues to use IE
IE comes bundled with your PC and most people are barely aware of things like firefox. This is a piece of hardware that you have to buy. Besides, are you really suggesting that MS shovel any old crap out there and hope people buy it?
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Is that the same target audience that continues to use IE, even though they've gotten tons of virus from simply visiting a web site
How are they expected to know any better? Sure, if you read technical publications you know that zero-day exploits for IE are common, but how many of them make the mainstream press? And how many of those that do tell you that there are other options that don't have the same issues? To a lot of people, the concept of a web browser as an application separate from the web si
the obvious joke... (Score:5, Funny)
Played for Sure... (Score:2)
Article writer lacking in reading comprehension (Score:5, Informative)
I fail to see anything the article says being backed up by anything Microsoft said.
It says the Zune marketplace content is not Plays For Sure content. It does NOT say that the Zune is not Plays For Sure compatible.
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But in a move that could alienate some customers, MSN-bought tracks will not be compatible with the new gadget.
and:
In addition to causing problems for existing MSN-customers hoping to transfer files to the Zune player, the move could also leave users and manufacturers of other Plays For Sure compatible devices out in the cold.
Sleep with the devil, wake up with the fleas...
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Let me help you.
.WMA, MP3, AAC; photos in JPEG; and videos in .WMV, MPEG-4, H.264.
Zune Player [zune.net] says:
Import your media from iTunes®, Windows Media® Player.[3]
[3] Zune software can import audio files in unprotected
Don't you think if it was a Plays For Sure device that that would be part of their marketing??
Re:Article writer lacking in reading comprehension (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, the article's submitter lacks reading comprehension, but other articles have made it pretty clear that Microsoft's Zune player will not play PlaysForSure content. Your comment isn't explicitly claiming that Zune players will play PlaysForSure content, but some readers might think it's possible. It's almost certainly not. Zune has been hyped by MS for some time now and will launch in just 8 days. Don't you think PlaysForSure (content) playback would be a great big feature that MS would hype for its Zune player? I'm hoping MS comes to it's senses and adds PlaysForSure compatibility to Zune players at a later date.
Anyhoo, here's part of an Engadget interview with J Allard [engadget.com], MS Corporate Vice President, that discusses the Zune player's compatibility with PlaysForSure content. To me, Allard's answers seem like evasive bullshit mixed with promotional bullshit, but it's pretty clear the Zune player will not (initially) play PlaysForSure content:
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So up until this point Microsoft's digital music strategy has been largely to create an ecosystem and be a supplier of a DRM platform to manufacturers and online music stores. PlaysForSure was the thrust of Microsoft's strategy until the announcement of the Zune. How does PlaysForSure fit into Microsoft's strategy going forward? It doesn't appear that the Zune will be compatible with any PlaysForSure retailers. How does that affect Microsoft's current partners who rely on PlaysForSure?
I think there's two answers to the question. First answer is, this whole digital music revolution is really just starting. There's still a lot to be figured. We certainly don't think we have it all figured out, and we think there will be change. The second thing is that specifically when it comes to PlaysForSure, think about you might buy a Windows PC versus how my mother might buy a Windows PC. My mom calls up Dell and says, "I have seven hundred bucks, get me a computer. What's the best thing I can get?" She doesn't specify the keyboard, the monitor, the memory configuration. The conversation might get as specific as, "Do you think you want to burn DVDs?" Then she gets a product that shows up and it's all pre-installed.
There are other people that go to Fry's Electronics and hand pick the graphics card, the case for their computer, they build a Windows-based PC from the ground up. We have a solution for both of those things. We at Microsoft have a platform that is Windows, we have a solution for the crowd of consumers that are very deliberate about how they build their PC solution, and we also have a solution for people who just want turnkey. And I think that's how these two strategies complement each other. The PlaysForSure is still a program we're going to invest in, we still have a lot of partners there, and for a class of consumers who that want to have a hand-crafted media media experience and maximize their choice, we have an answer. There's another class of consumers that just want to get digital media, and they just want to be able to go to one store and have it all just plain, dead simple, and don't want to know what a codec is.
Wasn't that the point of PlaysForSure?
Well, it's like asking a question about Windows -- and the point of Windows was to bring personal computing to the world -- some people are going to pick their PCs, they're going to pick their monitor, they're going to pick their printer, they're going to pick their graphics card, and combine the things that they've chosen. Other people just a want a system that's end-to-end -- all compatible out of the gate -- and that's what Zune
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As long as the Zune can play plain non-DRM encumbered MP3s, then there's really no reason for Zune owners who have purchased PFS music to not simply fire up their preferred P2P client and download MP3 versions of what they already purchased.
Strategic, but silly move (Score:2)
The thing is, the same could be said for iPod users: they're unlikely to switch to Zune if they can't move their purchased songs...assuming that they actually bought their so
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In short, I would like the opportunity to be different even if I never get to take advantage of it.
Outch! (Score:2)
Zune will have it's own store (Score:2)
How would it break it? (Score:3, Informative)
This is really a bizarre move that makes it seem like Microsoft just wants an iron fist, to make sure the Zune only works with their music store and doesn't work with anything else at all, forcing customers to their music store.
This is why t
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The issue at hand is not supporting a wide range of PlaysForSure devices. The Zune is the issue. Why can't the Zune play PlaysForSure media?
Or can it? The article is extremely confusing, because the official statement from Microsoft says basically:
In the foot. (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm not an MS basher any more than saying I don't like most of their software. I don't think they're utterly evil... But wow, that takes a special commitment to poor business decisions. Launch an system called "plays for sure" and then manufacture a incompatible product. I'm impressed.
What's sad is that they'll still probably sell a few to people who can't see pa
dumb meets dumber (Score:5, Funny)
Just when you thought microsoft could not pull anything stupider than they had lately... I mean really, what is this? Yes we have here a standard and we are backing it and we are making it the universally compatible technology, but wait, except for this major new product we're releasing. Doesn't this just incredibly piss off everyone - the customers, the manufacturers, the retailers? What on earth could they possibly be getting in exchange for all this horrid customer ill-will?
Bad Bill! No cookie!
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FUD (Score:2)
They just say that they won't provide support for getting the music on the device. Its clear from the statement that if they were on the player it would work.
I really don't understand why people want to make up stories about microsoft. There is enough abou
Next time you're tempted to laugh at Stallman (Score:2, Insightful)
Meriam Webster couldn't have said it better... (Score:2)
Dramatic Irony
n.
3b - incongruity between a situation developed in a drama and the accompanying words or actions that is understood by the audience but not by the characters in the play
On the stage that is consumer electronics, with the observer that is the consumer, and the actor that is the manufacturer - when the manufacturer creates a market paradox in which its service and product are incompatible... Awww hell,
What in the name of Sam Hill was Microsoft thinking!?!?!?!
Will it run linux? (Score:2, Interesting)
Obligatory quote (Score:2)
Microsoft: Oh, look. You fell for that, too. I can't believe it man.
Microsoft: So, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
Enough's Enough! (Score:4, Funny)
Styles: Apple and Microsoft (Score:2)
Microsoft: Product development managed by a large but finite number of monkeys. Apparently this is not enough to produce great works. Their solution? Add more monkeys.
"ecosystem" (Score:2)
For that matter, neither does "Plays for sure".
Plays For Sure (Score:5, Insightful)
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Anyone need a batshit insane realtor? [vancouvercondo.info]
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exactly [macworld.com] that [typepad.com].
Re:I can only say... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm not saying you're wrong here, but it's not the world's most difficult problem to solve.
Re:I can only say... (Score:4, Insightful)
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"Since Zune is a separate offering that is not part of the Plays For Sure ecosystem, Zune content is not supported on Plays For Sure devices."
The way this says it, other PFS Device can't play Zune content, not that the Zune won't play the PFS. What kind of crap is
Embrace and extend comming soon (Score:2)
They want to be apple (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:They want to be apple (Score:5, Interesting)
That must be what they want, then. Because people are still mostly buying iPods. They are not just out-selling all the other players. They are outselling all the other players combined.
Why? I couldn't speak for others, but I know why I bought one.
1. The user interface is simply better. It's not even a vaguely subjective thing. It's better. I've yet to meet anybody face-to-face who honestly believes otherwise.
2. iTunes is a darn good media player on my computer, and the iPod works with it seamlessly.
3. They finally fixed that damned gapless playback issue.
4. Though I prefer buying CD's and ripping them as lossless files, iTMS is kind of spiffy for one-hit-wonder pop tracks.
5. It's easy to get peripherals for it. I have a car charger which doubles as a cradle and triples as a very good FM transmitter. My iPod + the Ford stock stereo makes the perfect "pull-out" audio system for my dashboard. I just take the whole iPod with me when I park, leaving my El-Cheapo radio and a strange-looking plastic stand in the car. It was the best of several just like it from different manufacturers. With no other portable music player do I have half as many options for gizmos like that.
6. My 80GB iPod plus my RAZR together take up less space than my first cell phone did by itself.
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In the end I keep getting annoyed. This has lead me to this conclusion:
The very point of a portable music player is that it is a luxury. It has no business existing unless it works absurdly well.
If I had to listed to podcasts for my work or something like that, maybe I'd go for cheap capacity. But the whole idea of a music player is to make the dull or annoying bits of your day a bit nicer. It doesn't really make rational sens
Re:Embrace and extend comming soon (Score:5, Funny)
It must have taken you twice as long to be totally wrong as it would have for you to have RTFA. If you had RTFA and got to the third paragraph before you tiny brain overflowed, you have read this: "But in a move that could alienate some customers, MSN-bought tracks will not be compatible with the new gadget."
Here's a reason to RTFA: You might look alightly less like a complete and utter fucking moron.
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Here's how I keep it straight in my head: Any product I buy that has the "PlaysForSure" logo and slogan associated with it may or may not Play For Sure with other products. Depending.
I hope this helps. It has certainly kept me from getting confused about the PlaysForSure concept. Or not.
* * * * * *
I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it.
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Microsoft is still supporting PlaysForSure, but they're now doing it through URGE rather than MSN Music Store. URGE is the default online music store of WMP11, replacing MSN Music Store, which was the default online music store for WMP10. WMP10 and WMP11 also support lots of other PlaysForSure online stores (walmart music, aol music, GiantMusic (which provides its music in WMA Lossles), etc.
Oh, and slashdot's headline for this story is old old old. It's been known for months that Zune is not a
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What, did you not take your daily irony supplement today?
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I see people writing about the evils of DRM and the heart of the problem is that if people didn't copy music and everybody paid for what they enjoyed, there would be no need for DRM, so, realistically, it's our own fault that DRM is needed.
That's a fairy tale ; the recording industry pulled the copying stunt long before the copying had un actual economic impact. If you could use a time machine, you could notice such concerns raising in the late 80's. I'd be more inclined to believe the computing industry