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Mysteries of the Next-Gen Consoles Solved

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the you-asked-he-answered dept.

Wii 99

Chris Morris, of CNN Money's Game Over column, has several final details on the next-gen consoles. He delves into availability, games, the new ads for both the Wii and the PS3 and (of course) "Who's going to win?" From the article: "For the past two generations, Sony has sold far more PlayStation units than its competitors have sold of their systems. Publishers, for their part, expect the field to be a lot more even over the next five years or so (which should be about the time you're asked to start focusing on the PS4, Xbox 720 and whatever funky name Nintendo comes up with next)."

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Obligatory (5, Funny)

Safiiru (24501) | more than 7 years ago | (#16796596)

The Xbox 640 ought to be enough for anybody.

Re:Obligatory (0)

raftpeople (844215) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798150)

Lots of funny stuff on slashdot, but that one really made me laugh, good job.

Re:Obligatory (0)

Total_Wimp (564548) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798502)

Thank god I didn't see that when I was taking a drink. I hate cleaning my monitor.

Chuck Norris (1)

squall14716 (734306) | more than 7 years ago | (#16801218)

I hope I'm not the only person who read "Chris Morris" as "Chuck Norris." God, the interwebs has scared me.

Obligatory "Bill Gates never said that" comment. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16803346)

(Even though no mention was made of Bill Gates)

Next Nintendo Name (1)

thebdj (768618) | more than 7 years ago | (#16796604)

Harkening back to the days of the Virtual Boy [wikipedia.org] , Nintendo will release a truly immersive gaming experience. Having learned from past failure, there will be no more crazy red characters and major headaches, instead there will be full body-suits, making us all look like we are in Tron [wikipedia.org] .

It might not be as crazy as it sounds [wikipedia.org] . Especially in five years. Our next console, Virtual Wii. (Which almost sounds worse then Wii.)

Re:Next Nintendo Name (1)

Thansal (999464) | more than 7 years ago | (#16796698)

Will we all look like Tron Guy?

Would a Virtual Wii be an E-Penor? Will they come in different sizes?

Re:Next Nintendo Name (4, Funny)

Boogaroo (604901) | more than 7 years ago | (#16797046)

Would a Virtual Wii be an E-Penor? Will they come in different sizes?

Of course they will. They'll be: Wii, Not-So-Wii, and Frickin' HUGE!


And of course we won't look like the Tron guy. We'll all have night elf avatars. :)

Re:Next Nintendo Name (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16796746)

> Especially in five years. Our next console, Virtual Wii. (Which almost sounds worse then Wii.)

The wait for this new console will be very long and hard, so we'll just have to suck it up. See, men (and women), the new VR Wii will be so awesome it won't just be enough to play with your Wii anymore.

Re:Next Nintendo Name (1)

Amouth (879122) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799348)

damn.. that was a nice job with the sequence of words there.....

Re:Next Nintendo Name (1)

Spad (470073) | more than 7 years ago | (#16796776)

Please. Mass-appeal Virtual Reality has been "5 years off" for at least the last 15 years.

Re:Next Nintendo Name (3, Insightful)

Ant P. (974313) | more than 7 years ago | (#16796966)

That's because you keep redefining Virtual Reality every time the definition from 5 years ago comes close to being met.

Re:Next Nintendo Name (2, Insightful)

Lostconfused (1019042) | more than 7 years ago | (#16797040)

When did it change from the, headset + gloves = transport you an artificial reality inside some pc or other?

Re:Next Nintendo Name (1)

Carnildo (712617) | more than 7 years ago | (#16797212)

They're doing better than commercially-viable nuclear fusion, which has been twenty years away since the 1950s.

Re:Next Nintendo Name (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 7 years ago | (#16803238)

Virtual Reality is easy, mass appeal is the hard part. Nothing is dorkier than wearing a helmet while flailing your hands around while wearing boxing gloves^W^W cyber gloves. Well, except for LARP. That's really the bottom of the dorkiness barrel.

revolutiON (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 7 years ago | (#16800146)

Our next console, Virtual Wii.

Don't you mean Virtual On [wikipedia.org] ?

Re:revolutiON (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 7 years ago | (#16803248)

No [wikipedia.org] , why?

What, you mean like the "Nintendo ON" ? (1)

celerityfm (181760) | more than 7 years ago | (#16804738)

Some day, some day...The Nintendo ON [google.com] - so hottttttttttt.... better quality copies here [1up.com] .

Console Launch Numbers Are Great, But.... (1)

boatofcar (884925) | more than 7 years ago | (#16796652)

Is there any definitive answer to how many games will launch with the PS3?

Rim shot (3, Funny)

Headcase88 (828620) | more than 7 years ago | (#16796782)

The good news is that about 100 games will be out at launch.

The bad news is that they're all Genji.

Re:Rim shot (1)

Lectrik (180902) | more than 7 years ago | (#16797256)

The good news is that about 100 games will be out at launch.

The bad news is that they're all Genji.


Good News: 100 games
Bad News: It's just one title.
Good News about the Bad News: We get to see the 1000 people who actually bought a PS3 fight over those 100 discs

Who cares! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16796694)

The PC (with M$ Windows I'm afraid...) is the best games machine!

Re:Who cares! (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 7 years ago | (#16796870)

"The PC (with M$ Windows I'm afraid...) is the best games machine!"

That's not true for everybody. If it were, the PC game market would have a lot more successes.

Re:Who cares! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16797240)

best != success

Re:Who cares! (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 7 years ago | (#16797502)

"best != success"

Potential != best.

The PC is the most under-utilized game device out there.

Re:Who cares! (1)

C0rinthian (770164) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799064)

The PC is the most under-utilized game device out there.
That all depends on whose PC you're talking about, now doesn't it?

Re:Who cares! (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799784)

"That all depends on whose PC you're talking about, now doesn't it?"

Yes. That's exactly my point.

How many players per PC? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 7 years ago | (#16800270)

The PC (with M$ Windows I'm afraid...) is the best games machine!

Not for social gaming. Games such as Gauntlet, Bomberman, Secret of Mana, Mario Party, and WarioWare can't easily be done in the PC's one-player-per-machine mindset. If they could, then why wouldn't store shelves show more games that can take advantage of four USB gamepads plugged into a USB hub?

My guess (4, Insightful)

Headcase88 (828620) | more than 7 years ago | (#16796950)

Allow me to post my 4-month old predictions so I can try to find and reference this post if I'm right and sweep it under the carpet if I'm wrong. End of 2009, in terms of number of consoles sold: 360 = 40% (has already built up momentum on both customer and developer sides) Wii = 35% (I think it will explode out of the gate) PS3 = 25% (Will have momentum issues (shortages guarantee this), but IMO will not age as quickly as the other consoles later on) Like the article, no definite winner. But there is significantly more $ spent on 360s than the other two.

Mulligan (3, Interesting)

Headcase88 (828620) | more than 7 years ago | (#16796982)

Whoops. I hate walls of text so let me do this again.

End of 2009, in terms of number of consoles sold:
360 = 40% (has already built up momentum on both customer and developer sides)
Wii = 35% (I think it will explode out of the gate)
PS3 = 25% (Will have momentum issues (shortages guarantee this), but IMO will not age as quickly as the other consoles later on)

Like the article, no definite winner. But there is significantly more $ spent on 360s than the other two.

You're right, /., I should indeed have clicked the preview button :( . . . but I don't see a reason to slow down at this point ;)

Can I Karma Whore too? (0, Redundant)

Dacmot (266348) | more than 7 years ago | (#16800528)

Whoops. I hate percentages that add up let me do this again.

End of 2009, in terms of number of consoles sold:
  • 360 = 38.9% (has already built up a lot of dirt and dust in the fans)
  • Wii = 41.1% (I think it will explode)
  • PS3 = 3% (Will have frick'n blue lasers and kill children)

Like the article, smells like weeners. But there is significantly more $ spent on PS3's anyways...

You're right, /., now I got it right!

Re:Can I Karma Whore too? (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 7 years ago | (#16803260)

Wii = 41.1% (I think it will explode)

I don't think it's made by Nokia.

Re:My guess (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16797022)

More might be spent on the xbox but Nintendo will make more money.

Re:My guess (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16798434)

Only nintendo gives a shit about that. As a consumer, it doesn't mean anything to you. Unless you're some fanboy that gets a little woody when their champion of choice does well.

Re:My guess (1)

aichpvee (631243) | more than 7 years ago | (#16801960)

Exactly! Nintendo counts on idiots like that though. Personally I was really turned off when they came out and could barely talk about anything but how much money they were going to be making when they announced the insane Wii price point and controller bullshit. I was really disappointed then, but since having the extreme displeasure of trying out Wii for myself I'm actually pretty glad they're such idiots. Saved me the time and disappointment of securing a pre-order just to get the thing home and realize all those hundreds of dollars were for nothing.

I really hope Wii tanks so that the guys at Nintendo will either start taking their position in the market seriously enough to do this kind of "innovation" right or will realize it's time for them to exit the market entirely.

Re:My guess (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 7 years ago | (#16803288)

Tell that to the Sega fans.

My guess (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 7 years ago | (#16797208)

End of 2009:

PS3: 50%
Wii: 30%
360: 20%

As you are talking about 2009, all effects of Christmas shortages will be gone - if shortages caused problems that long the 360 would have troubles as well.

I personally feel like the Wii number is optimistic, but I can't logically see how it would be lower with the much lower cost of entry the Wii offers. However it will be squeezed by the 360 and PS3 really pushing HD gaming, which is why I also can't see it being higher.

The 360 is good but I don't see them really appealing to a broader market. Gears of War is awesome, but where is the 360 Katmari Damacy, or other fun puzzle games? Bejewled on Live is a good start but is too expensive.

Also don't forget that both Sony and Nintendo this round offer the ability to play older games purchased online, which is going to be a big draw.

Basically the PS3 offers all of the advantages of online support that the 360 and Wii offer, along with the motion controller advancements the Wii offers all with the brand recognition of the Sony gaming system. That's why I still think it will be on top in terms of market share (especially by 2009).

I think the 360 should manage to keep a total number of systems sold lead for about another year.

Re:My guess (1)

Jace of Fuse! (72042) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798082)

along with the motion controller advancements the Wii offers

Wrong.

Not only does the PS3 controller not have true motion sensing capabilities, it doesn't even have rumble, something that while not important to everyone, does annoy many people. And while I admit that it's not enough alone to really impact the sales of the whole console, it is just another point against it.

As for it's tilt controls, they will absolutely in NO WAY offer what the Wiimote will.

Wiimote: Can be used as a pointing device at the screen. Detects tilt, and 3D orientation relative to screen. Has rumble. Has speaker. Has port for extra gadget hookups (Wii Classic and Nunchuka).

Sixaxis: Lacks rumble, only detects tilt.

To even begin to say that the PS3 offers the features of the Wii is ridiculous fud.

Re:My guess (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798390)

As for it's tilt controls, they will absolutely in NO WAY offer what the Wiimote will.

Wiimote: Can be used as a pointing device at the screen. Detects tilt, and 3D orientation relative to screen.


You must not have used 3D controlling devices very often.

The Wiimote has an advantage in that the external sensors can more accuratley place the position of the Wiimote in space. However, with good accelerometers you can achieve pretty much the saem effect - you just have to have the user do an initial calibration, something the Wii makes users do as well.

The Wiimote formfactor and sensors do indeed make it a more useful device for the kinds of things where you point it at a screen. But that is only one aspect of motion sensing, there are many other things you do measuring changes in position and rotation of a controller - and they are being implemented in PS3 games, like extra traction in racers when you "lean" the controller or using quick jerks to body-check someone in hockey. Or Warhawk where you can treat the controller like a real yoke.

Of course the Wii is more advanced in this respect but that does not detract with what you'll be able to get out of the Sony controller, and the Wii is not so much more advanced that you can't really compare the two.

I'm probably going to buy a Wii and a 360, attitudes like yours where you absolutely have to put down Sony down at every opportunity and elevate Nintendo to a god are very confusing to someone who simply wants to play really cool games.

Would not not even agree that the inclusion of motion control in the PS3 controller is a good step beyond what the 360 offers? As a Wii fanatic you should embrace that motion control is going mainstream, that means more developers will be thinking about what they can do with it which means even more interesting Wii games.

Sixaxis: Lacks rumble, only detects tilt.

So is there no sense of discongruity there that a device labeled "Six Axis" can only detect motion in THREE axis? Does not the name itself perhaps clue you in that you might have missed something kind of important, like motion in XYZ space that it does in fact measure in addition to rotation?

I agree it's sad that rumble is gone but after years of trying kind of sucky PC 3D controllers (like the space orb) I'm looking forward to an easier and more accurate generation of 3D controllers, along with games where 3D motion control is not an afterthought.

Re:My guess (1)

Jace of Fuse! (72042) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799480)

Actually, I don't put down Sony at every chance I get. I fully intend on adding a PS3 to my arsenal. I just don't consider it appropriate to say that the PS3 offers the features of the Wiimote.

Re:My guess (1)

maglor_83 (856254) | more than 7 years ago | (#16800516)

I think the biggest problem with the PS3 tilt sensing is the form factor. I just can't imagine it being all that natural to use when you have to be holding the controller with both hands.

Re:My guess (1)

twistedsymphony (956982) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798540)

You're incorrect in that the SIXAXIS only detects tilt, it does actually detect linear movement (in-fact the tilt sensing is most likely derived in software based on the linear movements detected by the sensors).

You are correct that the SIXAXIS wont even come close to offering the motion control features of the Wii [thoughthead.com] , for the simple fact that the SIXAXIS requires you to hold it with both hands... I defy you to comfortably hold the SIXAXIS like a fishing rod, or a baseball bat... how about like a tennis racket, a golf club, or a gun? Could you hold it like you're pulling a lever or pushing an object? How about holding it and punching/blocking/dipping and diving like a boxer? There is more to motion control then steering a vehicle and the SIXAXIS misses out on most of it's not a controller shape that is meant to have motion control... Just because you stick a feature on to something doesn't mean you can use that feature well... Sony's controller design seems to be just shoving new features on to an old controller design where ever they seem to fit rather then actually thinking about how it would make good sense.

The fact that the Wii-Remote has rumble and audio feedback (FEEDBACK there's a novel idea!) is just icing on the cake towards the already useful motion controller... Further that by also adding positional pointing control similar to that of a light gun... AND the fact that the nunchuck adapter adds a whole 2nd set of motion sensors meaning it can interpret you hands independently. The SIXAXIS is the virtual equivalent of handcuffs in terms of how much motion you'll actually be able to input into the console. No matter how many sensors they shove in that controller It's pretty much useless because you have to use both hands.

Re:My guess (1)

Jace of Fuse! (72042) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799526)

I stand corrected on the liniar movement, and after having read your opening sentence realized my error.

I should of course revoice my words from another reply I just posted.

I am not at all knocking the PS3. There are things about it that do interest me. Those things mostly have to do with the cell.

But I just cannot believe some people actually can say "Wiimote? The PS3 will do that, too."

Re:My guess (1)

HappySqurriel (1010623) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798746)

I'm not going to make a prediction on the numbers or percentages sold (because there is no way to anticipate changes in consumer tastes) but I do not think that your numbers reflect reality.

End of 2009:

PS3: 50%
Wii: 30%
360: 20%


Personally I can't see how the PS3 could outsell the XBox 360 and Wii combined when it is likely that until 2009 the PS3 could be nearly as expensive as both of the systems combined; the Wii60 will probably see a $75-$150 price drop in the second half of 2007, followed by a similar price drop in 2008, I'm not sure that Sony can keep up with this pace.

personally feel like the Wii number is optimistic, but I can't logically see how it would be lower with the much lower cost of entry the Wii offers. However it will be squeezed by the 360 and PS3 really pushing HD gaming, which is why I also can't see it being higher.

The fact is that HDTVs are in (approximately) 15% of homes currently, and it would be optimistic to see that jump to 33% over the next 3 years; if there are HDTVs in 50% of homes by 2010 I'd be surprised. It is really doubtful that HD gaming will actually provide enough of a benefit to most gamers for it to translate into greater sales.

Ultimately, I think the determining factor is what the average game developer decides to do. The PS2 and Playstation gained their market share largely because the bulk of independant (and shovelware) developers decided to focus their efforts on the Playstation; the effect of this was that there was many more games developed for the Playstation systems than there was for its competition (and, as a result, more good games). In this upcomming generation the XBox 360 has built enough of a lead in North America and Europe that it will probably take (many) years for the PS3 to catch up (if it can), and the Wii offers dramatically lower development costs than either the PS3 or XBox 360; this means that these average developers could decide to focus on the XBox 360 because of its user base, focus on the Wii because of its lower development costs, focus on the PS3/XBox 360 because of similar technology or split their efforts evenly.

As I see it, the more developers that move away from producing exclusive content for the PS3 the more market share it will lose; and I think the PS3 will lose a lot of exclusive content over the next 24 months.

Re:My guess (1)

Dorceon (928997) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798994)

Plus, just because someone has an HDTV and is buying a console doesn't mean they're buying a console that outputs HD. I have a 52 inch HDTV and I'm getting only a Wii.

Converse (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 7 years ago | (#16803276)

You are both forgetting that some may well buy consoles without having an HD set - HD is not a REQUIREMENT for buying the PS3 (or 360), it just enhances things (not withstanding small glitches like the Dead Rising text issue).

Re:My guess (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 7 years ago | (#16803292)

Personally I can't see how the PS3 could outsell the XBox 360 and Wii combined when it is likely that until 2009 the PS3 could be nearly as expensive as both of the systems combined

If you bought a console today, the PS3 is cheaper than the 360 with a Live subscription. That is how the PS3 can have a higher market share than the 360.

The lower market share for the Wii is really just a matter of only so many people wanting the kinds of games Nintendo offers, no matter how innovative. I applaud them for trying to reach a larger and new market of gamers but it wll be tricky to reach people who have never had consoles before.

Re:My guess (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16798084)

I'll claim this as mine in 2 years if I'm right...prediction for total units sold for the period 2006-2009 (including current offerings, including handhelds, etc., not just the new console offerings):

Sony: 70%
MS: 20%
Nintendo: 10%

Re:My guess (1)

reanjr (588767) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798910)

Perhaps you should check some current figures. Nintendo sells more systems than anyone else with their current offerings.

Re:My guess (1)

DocBoss (956304) | more than 7 years ago | (#16800694)

But there is significantly more $ spent on 360s than the other two. But significantly more money made with the Wii.

Next Nintendo Console Name is Obvious (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16796956)

We all know that the next Nintendo console after the Wii will be named the Puu.
I mean, it's really obvious when you think about it...

CNN needs to cross-communicate with ther divisions (3, Insightful)

Dr. Eggman (932300) | more than 7 years ago | (#16797010)

The article is not too bad, kind of simple, but not a bad sum of the situation. But check out the ineptitude of reporting in this CNN video report! [cnn.com]

Terrible! They talks as though there is nothing else coming out, but what's worse is how they butcher Sony's Console details

They harp on $600 and don't even mention the $500 version
They state Sony says it's worth it because it plays DVDs and wirelessly connects to the internet (No mention of Blue-Ray, HD, or 1080i)
Although you can't see it in the video, the anchors on CNN went on about it further, ragging on the $600 price being something "They'd never pay for" even the weatherman joins in.

In short, CNN botched just about every position Sony has been trying to push about the PS3. CNN should talk with it's game/technology division more often. If this is the kind of knowledge the mainstreme consumer has about the PS3, it doesn't bode well...

Re:CNN needs to cross-communicate with ther divisi (3, Insightful)

Control Group (105494) | more than 7 years ago | (#16797426)

If this is the kind of knowledge the mainstreme consumer has about the PS3, it doesn't bode well...

You're right. And it's Sony's fault. Sony has clearly not done enough to explain to the average consumer what the console can do. I think a story like that says more about how little people, so far, care about HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray, or even HDTV in general - which really calls further into question the wisdom of putting the Blu-Ray drive in the PS3 (given all the problems I/we assume it has caused for pricing and production).

On the other hand, maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe Sony is only trying to sell to the hardcore gamers, and all of them/us know what's actually going on with the console (whether or not we approve of it is something else entirely).

I question the wisdom of this, certainly in relation to their obvious hopes for Blu-Ray penetration, but more importantly: are current PS2 owners primarily hardcore gamers? I was under the impression there were a lot of more casual PS2 purchases, but perhaps I'm wrong.

Re:CNN needs to cross-communicate with ther divisi (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16799450)

Not sure exactly what you mean by "hardcore" but if you're saying that Sony have two games consoles on sale, one aimed at the cheaper end of the market (the PS2) and one currently aimed at the expensive end of the market (the PS3) then yes, that's right. I'm sure the intention is that in time the PS3 will come down in price and eventually the PS2 be discontinued, as happened with PS2 and PS. If your theory is that the PS3 should be competing with the PS2 already then I doubt that would make a lot of sense.

Re:CNN needs to cross-communicate with ther divisi (1)

Dr. Eggman (932300) | more than 7 years ago | (#16800624)

I agree, and would go further and say that even if they were only aiming for a hardcore market, they'd be even more foolish. Hardcore gamers are important to any console, but if one ignores the mainstream market it'll fail just as fast. However, I don't think they're aiming at hardcore gamers, hardcore gamers aren't all about graphics and blood level, they're about real gameplay value; that's why I'm getting a Wii. Ultimatly, if the PS3 fails, it'll be because they were just plain greedy. They overextended themselves trying to capture both the HD format and the gaming market. Perhaps it'll become a nice object lesson for future generations.

As a side note, after re-reading my orginal post, it sounds whiny and fan-boyish. I was merely trying to make an observation about CNN and possibly what it means about public opinion. I'd like to make it clear now: I hate Sony, but I like to justify it through fair evidence =P

Re:CNN needs to cross-communicate with ther divisi (2, Interesting)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#16797480)

They harp on $600 and don't even mention the $500 version

You mean the castrated version that has no wifi so your psp can't talk to it? I mean, I don't have a PSP, because I got over being a sony fanboy, but I'd be pissed. Oh and it has a tiny hard drive. Fuck'em.

They state Sony says it's worth it because it plays DVDs and wirelessly connects to the internet (No mention of Blue-Ray, HD, or 1080i)

Most people watching CNN don't know what Blu-Ray or 1080i are and only have a vague idea as to what HD is. They don't want to confuse people. This is why these aren't selling points. No one (statistically speaking) gives a shit. They already have a DVD player, which supports a higher resolution than 95% of the televisions in the US, so they just want a game machine. A lot of them are parents who wish we'd just go the hell back to carts so they don't have to keep replacing scratched game discs.

Although you can't see it in the video, the anchors on CNN went on about it further, ragging on the $600 price being something "They'd never pay for" even the weatherman joins in.

So what you're saying is that you're all butt-hurt because some people on CNN who aren't even paid to review games say they'd never pay for it? Guess what? I wouldn't pay $600 for that fucking thing either.

In short, CNN botched just about every position Sony has been trying to push about the PS3. CNN should talk with it's game/technology division more often. If this is the kind of knowledge the mainstreme consumer has about the PS3, it doesn't bode well...

I think that's an unfair representation of what's going on here. What's going on is that Sony is not properly communicating their message. These people are not highly informed games reviewers, right? They're just laymen (in this field) talking about some buzz. The buzz doesn't include anything on those things you wanted them to talk about, because again, no one gives a fuck about those features.

Aside from a few early-adopter types and the usual handful of trustafarians, people just want a machine that plays games. Do you really think the target market (which is ages like 15-24 or something) actually gives a shit about Blu-Ray? Again, it only matters if you have HD, and even then, it only matters if you feel that the quality of DVD Video is somehow lacking. Given that some significant percentage of people don't even have their HDTV configured to display HD, no one cares.

Re:CNN needs to cross-communicate with ther divisi (1)

DrEldarion (114072) | more than 7 years ago | (#16797898)

You mean the castrated version that has no wifi so your psp can't talk to it? I mean, I don't have a PSP, because I got over being a sony fanboy, but I'd be pissed. Oh and it has a tiny hard drive. Fuck'em.

Er, I doubt THAT many people care about linking a PSP to a PS3, and "tiny hard drive"? It's 20GB, the same size as in the 360, and 20GB more than the Wii has. How can you bash them on that?

The $500 machine should be enough for 90% of users (especially since it now has HDMI), but the anti-Sony folk don't want to admit it since then they can't throw "OMG SIX HUNDRED DOLLARS" around any longer.

Re:CNN needs to cross-communicate with ther divisi (1)

Control Group (105494) | more than 7 years ago | (#16797970)

The $500 machine should be enough for 90% of users

Unfortunately, it's only going to be 20% of production, so 63% of the 90% that could get by with the $500 box are going to have to get the $600 box or get nothing.

I've solved this problem in other posts by referring to the price of the PS3 as $580, the average of the two prices weighted by production volume.

HTH.
HAND.

Re:CNN needs to cross-communicate with ther divisi (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799198)

Er, I doubt THAT many people care about linking a PSP to a PS3, and "tiny hard drive"? It's 20GB, the same size as in the 360, and 20GB more than the Wii has. How can you bash them on that?

The 360's hard drive is also too small. Note that I do not own one, although I can afford one.

The $500 machine should be enough for 90% of users (especially since it now has HDMI), but the anti-Sony folk don't want to admit it since then they can't throw "OMG SIX HUNDRED DOLLARS" around any longer.

Yes, all two people who have HDMI but can't afford a $600 PS3 are really glad now.

$500 is still way too much. Frankly I think $300 is too much and have never purchased a console on launch day as a result. I think the most I've spent to date was $199, and I hate to spend THAT much on anything that's not trivially hackable. I got my Xbox used (refurb) for $129 and it was some of the best money I ever spent, but only because it's now running Xbox Media Center...

The fact is that I think that even $300 is too much, which is why the Wii is the only console I'm considering purchasing right now. If Microsoft would stop preventing us from running Linux, which would be a stupid move, then I'd buy a 360.

Ultimately it doesn't really matter to ME what the PS3 costs, because I'm done with those assholes at Sony for the foreseeable future - but lots of other people don't feel that way and $500 is too much for most of them and $600 is too much for even more of them.

Re:CNN needs to cross-communicate with ther divisi (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16809856)

Actually, it's 19.5 more than the Wii has

Re:CNN needs to cross-communicate with ther divisi (2, Insightful)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 7 years ago | (#16797994)

"In short, CNN botched just about every position Sony has been trying to push about the PS3. CNN should talk with it's game/technology division more often."
Okay why and who cares. CNN wasn't running an ad for the PS3.
It is Sony's job to get the word out.

However the reporters are 100 percent correct in there reporting.
$600 IS A LOT OF MONEY FOR A GAME CONSOLE! Right now I don't care about 1080i or blueray. I don't have a TV that supports 1080i and I am not getting one for a game console.
I don't care about Blueray. Nothing I really want to watch is available on Blueray. Not only that but I am going to wait until there is a shake out between Blueray and HD-DVD. If there is no shake out then I will buy a duel format player which the PS3 will never be.
I have gotten an XBox 360 yet but I am going to buy a Wii. For the money I will to take the risk that it will be great.

Here is Sony's nightmare in a nutshell.
Many people don't share Sony's opinion about the benefits of the PS3. It doesn't matter if Sony is right or wrong because it is the consumer that puts down the cash.
Many people are willing to plunk down the cash for a Wii.

Your right things don't bode well for Sony. And you know what? I am fine with that. It is just a company and I don't own any stock and they don't pay my bills.

Re:CNN needs to cross-communicate with ther divisi (1)

MemoryDragon (544441) | more than 7 years ago | (#16820700)

Lets bring it to the point the first million units will sell regardless of price. But after that, if sony cannot bring down the pricepoint significantly they will be in deep trouble. No hardware sales = third party publishers will jump the ship over time. Sony could be in the same situation the cube has been for a while. Which means strong initial sales due to the fans, but the average joe simply does not buy it, therefore not a good third party support. At least the cube still had Nintendos strong lineup behind it, and one or two publishers who hold Nintendos candle no matter what.

Wii Ads (2, Interesting)

lpangelrob (714473) | more than 7 years ago | (#16797042)

"Core gamers know when we're coming out. They're prepared," [Nintendo of America President and COO Reggie Fils-Aime] said. "The advertising and marketing is for casual gamers. We want to get them excited when they can actually go out and get something, so we'll start next week."

So that's why I haven't seen any Wii ads yet; apparently, the casual gamer doesn't start thinking about a console until it's out.

I have difficulty agreeing with this rationale, but then again, I'm not a casual gamer.

Re:Wii Ads (1)

AnotherShep (599837) | more than 7 years ago | (#16797144)

It's annoying seeing an ad for something cool then realizing that it isn't even going to be on sale for weeks. They're trying to get people to think 'Cool!' when they can actually buy the thing rather than have it be old news by the time it comes out.

Re:Wii Ads (1)

Crasty (1019258) | more than 7 years ago | (#16797252)

I think it's a good move. Anytime I see something on TV that I want, and I can't get it, it just irritates me. Saves me a lot of money too.

Commercials for movies (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 7 years ago | (#16800314)

It's annoying seeing an ad for something cool then realizing that it isn't even going to be on sale for weeks.

Commercials for movies are the worst. It can be more than half a year between when the trailer comes out and when the movie becomes available for purchase on DVD, longer than that if you live outside the United States and Canada.

Re:Commercials for movies (1)

DDLKermit007 (911046) | more than 7 years ago | (#16803488)

Even better...Transformers Movie...I saw the trailer for it on the July 4th. Fsking movie won't be out till July 4th next year. I hate that shit.

Re:Commercials for movies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16824624)

Yeah, really, having to hear all the barely literate dope smokers mindlessly ramble on about how wicked cool awesome phat a movie they haven't even seen and only want because the marketers and focus groups told them to only confirms that I am indeed in Hell.

Re:Wii Ads (2, Insightful)

2nd Post! (213333) | more than 7 years ago | (#16797236)

That makes perfect sense to me.

If you are a casual gamer and an ad actually works to get you to buy a system, there better be a system in a store for you to buy.
This is not like a movie where you get trailers and build up hype... you actually want to move systems.

Do you see advertisements for the 2007 Ford Mustang Mach 1?
Or advertisements for Apple's iPod Video coming in January 2007?

Re:Wii Ads (1)

Cheeko (165493) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798256)

Its actually not a terrible idea considering issues with supply for launch consoles historically. All the people who WANT a Wii at launch already have known about it for months, made their pre-orders and are waiting. These people don't need to be advertised to.

That being said, if you advertise to the "casual" gamer who they want to buy them to sustain the market, it creates more demand on launch, but for systems that will already be in low supply. Why risk alienating those people by preaching to them about your new system they can't even get. Let the early adoptors get theirs on launch day, then start advertisign. By the time those more casual people hit the stores a week or two later, there will be another shipment in stock.

Re:Wii Ads (1)

Control Group (105494) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798478)

then start advertisign

You know, I think that typo may have just added a word to my personal dictionary. Advertisign: the telltale indicators showing you're being marketed to.

Re: Advertisign (1)

Jinky Williams (975076) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798706)

I second that. Great definition.

Re:Wii Ads (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16799860)


The casual gamer's going to reject the Wii. Why? There are a lot of people out there that are shallow enough that they wouldn't buy something called a "Wii" because "the name is 'gay'." They'll buy a PS3 or 360 instead, because they don't have to say "I have a Nintendo Wii."

Nintendo totally fucked themselves with that name if they're targetting casual gamers. Hardcore gamers could care less what it's called.

The real winner of the next generation is... (5, Insightful)

americangame (1025646) | more than 7 years ago | (#16797180)

IBM

Re:The real winner of the next generation is... (1)

MyDixieWrecked (548719) | more than 7 years ago | (#16797616)

Yeah, I've been saying that for at least the last year or so... It been time to buy stock in big blue for a while.

Second-person for next Nintendo (1)

avajcovec (717275) | more than 7 years ago | (#16797352)

...and whatever funky name Nintendo comes up with next

Nintendo Yuu

Re:Second-person for next Nintendo (1)

PixelScuba (686633) | more than 7 years ago | (#16802640)

Who, Mee?

Re:Second-person for next Nintendo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16805850)

If the coolness demand for all things vaguely east-Asian continues till the time of the release of the next console, they could just name their next one a kanji. The buzz would be self-generating, even after you take into account people's heads exploding when they try to think about it.

And the best part is, aside from being the latest thing scores of African-American youth (and the white kids who emulate them) tattoo on their necks, it would force all of the news, technology, and game websites to fix their markup to use Unicode. Down with shit-ass Windows encodings!

A Marginally Informed Opinion (5, Interesting)

HeavenlyBankAcct (1024233) | more than 7 years ago | (#16797444)

As a former designer at a very large video game company that will remain unnamed so nobody comes after me with baseball bats for vaguely speaking in defiance of an NDA, I saw first-hand the nightmare that was PS3 development. We had a team assigned to 'port' one of our 360 titles to the PS3 for launch, and the porting process took almost as long as building the game did in the first place. As a non-developer, I don't know too many of the nuts-and-bolts of it, but I do know that the PS3's texture memory seems to be substantially more limited and/or volatile than Microsoft's and many of our game assets had to be retooled into lower bit-depths and smaller sizes to keep the system from crashing in areas where the 360 performed like a champ. New SDK's were released almost weekly right up until the bitter end of the PS3 'development period', many of these containing sweeping changes that required massive retooling of key aspects of the title, and nothing to do with the PS3 system, be it the OS, hardware, ever really seemed finalized or stable.

While I'm positive that these issues have been resolved (or at least, hopeful) -- I'm still going to wait quite a while before I even consider purchasing a new Sony box. With the massive amounts of hurdles developers have been jumping through to appease the flaky nature of this product launch, I don't expect to see very many quality games for this system for quite some time.

Re:A Marginally Informed Opinion (1)

bumchick (201482) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798404)

Well... yes.
You'd probably have as much trouble porting a game that was built ground-up for the PS3, onto the Xbox360. Porting is hard. New SDK versions are also common in the lead-up to launch, I'm sure if you ask now, the SDK will be stable.

Re:A Marginally Informed Opinion (1)

Dorceon (928997) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799106)

This is the advantage of the Wii being so similar to the GameCube. Everything that used to be there is still there; there's just new stuff too. Everyone already knows how to write for the old stuff, so they can add the new tricks to their vocabulary gradually, instead of having to learn everything from scratch with a new architecture.

Re:A Marginally Informed Opinion (1)

Mongoose (8480) | more than 7 years ago | (#16800868)

Welcome to developing any launch title on a new console. When you're still finalizing the hardware and making games at the same time you tend to have 'issues' like these. You should've talked to some guys that didn't go the the ps3 devcon try to figure anything out. Also if you're really just a PC game house anything not like a PC is going 'to be hard'. =)

Re:Some clarification (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16804464)

Disclaimer: I'm a developer for a company that works almost exclusively on 360 games. So I guess there's the possibility of bias.

Just to clarify some of the issues brought up. Yes, the PS3 is more limited when it comes to texture memory. The reason is that you may only use 256MB for textures, whereas on the 360 you have the full 512MB to use as you please. If you want to use 50MB for the game logic (ie. the actual game data, pointers and such), 50MB for sound, and the rest for textures, on the 360 this is just fine, on the PS3 - no dice.
That means that certain titles look significantly worse on the PS3, Rainbow Six Vegas for example, due to having lower quality textures.

As for ease of development. Programming for the SPEs is a bitch. So what you really have with the PS3 isjust a single core CPU (compared to the 3 cores of the 360), unless your particular game happens to have some central feature which happens to map well on to the SPEs (this is not at all guaranteed!). This may lead to some gimmick games which make good use of the SPEs, but for general multi-platform games, they will probably run quite a bit worse on the PS3 because things in general just don't map very well to SPEs. Multithreading programming on the 360 is difficult as well, but at least you have three cores (and six threads, sort of) which are all symmetric.

WiiToo (1)

LearnToSpell (694184) | more than 7 years ago | (#16797448)

It's even Wiiner than the last one, and it's got the same great Wiiness you've come to love every night.

My predictions for system market share: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16798258)

2006: MS obviously wins the remainder of 2006. However, X360 sales start to plummet after Christmas.
2007: By sometime in mid 2007, Nintendo takes the lead in total sales. PS3 sales start to pick up, despite the high price (I don't forsee a price drop until at least Christmas 2007). 360 sales drop to nearly nothing, with minor bumps whenever a AAA title is released (Forza, MassEffect, Blue Dragon).
2008: 360 sales are up somewhat, as its lower price tag, similar performance, and better internet gaming vs. PS3 are pointed out in a last ditch MS ad blitz. Wii sales rate slump somewhat (though units per month is well in excess of 360, and probably beats out PS3), due to the usual Nintendo pause after their first tier game batch is released (as at this point Metroid, Mario, Smash Bros, etc. will all have been released), and by repeated ad barrages by their competitors of last gen technology. PS3 sales increase at a slow but steady clip, surpassing 360 (but not Wii) sometime around midyear.
2009: 360 sales low and steady. Wii sales up slightly. PS3 continues their steadily increasing rate, overtaking total Wii sales by Christmas.
2010: Who knows. MS, with a number of flat divisions and Vista's successor still a half decade away, may look at the 360 history, of throwing money at top tier developers both western (Rockstar, Bioware) and eastern (Capcom, Mistwalker) with a year's headstart, for a last place finish, as a no-hope business option and leave the hardware market, attempting to sell off their online technology and/or next gen CPU design to a competitor.
Sony settles for a barely 1st place, although Blu-Ray wins out over HD-DVD.
Nintendo does not fare so well, however, as their next-gen telepathic control technology tests malfunction and cause the cetaceans to go into a berserker fury. Whales attack ocean shipping, and dolphins crawl onto land to bludgeon unsuspecting sunbathers. Okay, I don't really believe this, I think that Nintendo will happily take a very close second place.

Also: Note that the loss per console per company is not the whole story: If Nintendo makes 20 bucks on the system and 10 bucks per game, and Sony loses 100 on the system and makes 10 bucks per game, if you buy 20 games for the PS3 and only 7 games for the Wii, Sony came out ahead.

Re:My predictions for system market share: (1)

C0rinthian (770164) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799258)

Reminds me of an Onion headline: "Dolphins develop opposable thumbs. 'Were fucked now!' say scientists."

5 Years? (2, Interesting)

MrBandersnatch (544818) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798270)

If I was Microsoft Id be lining up my coup de grace for Sony by planning to release the next next gen machine within 2 years. A substantial trade-in scheme for 360 owners, integrated dual format HD-DVD/Blu-Ray drive, whatever HD/Processor/graphic card that is available and provides backwards compatibility and a price point withing a few $100 of the PS3 when they launch and the deal should be sealed. Sony are literally BANKING on the PS3 being a long term success in order to recoup their development costs. If MS choses to puts the pressure on while Sony is so vulnerable its quite possible Sony will end up as the next Sega.

While I dont neccesarily consider the aove good for the industry I would consider it good business for the cash rich MS and a suitable reward for Sonys arrogance.

Re:5 Years? (2, Interesting)

Wescotte (732385) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798812)

If I was Microsoft Id

buy up all 400k units shipped to the US? Sounds like a good idea

Re:5 Years? (1)

DocBoss (956304) | more than 7 years ago | (#16800932)

That would cost like 220 million dollars...

Re:5 Years? (2, Interesting)

DDLKermit007 (911046) | more than 7 years ago | (#16803506)

Thats a marketing budget. Hell of a way to short-circuit a competitor. Buy up all of their product and proceed to make it impossible for them to get exposure while your product keeps rolling along. All the while you get massive press pissing & moaning about it. Heck, as an added bonus the competition is taking a $200-$300 hit per console.

Re:5 Years? (1)

4D6963 (933028) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799310)

I think there are still quite a few major problems with shortening the duration of a console generation. Xboxes are sold at loss, Microsoft makes money off the games they sell. Shortening the console generation means less games created and sold for the Xbox 360, that means tremendously less profit for Microsoft.

Not only that, but you would have much fewer games in the final Xbox 360 collection which would fully use the power of the console, as it's well known that games make the best out of each console only during the very last years of the console's life.

Then you have to consider the time it takes to develop a commerical game, about 2 years in average, and also the (lack of) technological advances you would have during a shorter period, you would really end up with a half next-gen. That's one reason why you can't launch your next-gen console much longer before the concurrents, because by the time they put out their console, yours is already obsolete (or nearly).

And from the gamer point of vue, you don't want to see a Xbox 720 coming out just 3 years after you put you money in a 360. For all the reasons I think that they should all keep up with the about 5 year a generation pace, then it's up to them whether they want to put their console out one year before or after their concurrent's.

Re:5 Years? (1)

HappySqurriel (1010623) | more than 7 years ago | (#16800004)

If I were Microsoft I would use a much more conventional strategy ...

I would focus on reducing the manufacturing cost of the XBox 360 by moving towards a more advanced manufacturing process (65nm) and integrating as many of the controller chips as possible; the goal of this is to be able to have a drastic price drop on the XBox 360 ($100) in the second half of 2007. Upon finishing the internal redesign the next goal would be to reduce the manufacturing process again (45nm) and to reduce the form factor of the XBox 360 (while still focusing on simplification of the system's internals); this "slim-line" version of the system can be released in the second half of 2008 at a much lower cost ($50) than the XBox 360 would currently be selling for.

While this is occuring I would be approaching every major 3rd party in the world and encourage (or bribe) them into porting any existing exclusive PS3 games to the XBox 360, and encouraging (or paying) them to drop any PS3 versions of a game that are currently planned on multi-platform games.

The combination approach would force Sony into price drops they couldn't afford while forcing them to pay to maintain development (which they can afford to do); all in all it will end up costing Sony $4 Billion - $8 Billion to stay competative in this generation. Even if Sony came out on top worldwide there company would be a fraction as profitable and would (likely) be in no position to compete in the next generation.

Re:5 Years? (1)

Durrok (912509) | more than 7 years ago | (#16801360)

Far as I can tell Sony isn't planning on joining in the next console wars anyway. They are saying this console should last 10 years, so while they may release some new "streamlined" or big add-on around the 5 year mark, they are planning for the PS4 to come out around 2017.

Re:5 Years? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16803034)

That's not really the case. The PS1 was just killed what, within the past year? The fact that it lasted about ten years didn't keep the PS2 from coming out.

Re:5 Years? (1)

DDLKermit007 (911046) | more than 7 years ago | (#16803526)

They said the exact same thing about the PS2. When they said that, they were saying it's developed lifetime would be that. Hell Dreamcast had it's last game come out a year ago and it was dead long before that? Of course the drooling fanboys of the world took it as it'll be 10 years before anyone releases a new console. They craft their words very carefully so when you come back at them in 5 years they just point to their old words and say, "read it again stupid." Guaranteed, MS or Nintendo will put out another console 5-7 years from now and Sony will "me too" it.

Its the Games, not anything else (3, Insightful)

Stevecrox (962208) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799428)

Comparing Sony's position now with their position six years ago isn't going to give any idicator on how a console will do. The PS1 and PS2 did so well because of the games. The Xbox was aimed at the hard core gamer, most of the games were bloods/guts style.
Nintendo aimed the Gamecube at the 'new market' and ended up producing a ton of strange and bizare games no one really cared for (excusing Super Smash Brothers) girls wern't engaged with the Gamecube games, hard core gamers saw the thing as stupid only really leaving the fanboys. ,br.The PS2 had it all so to speak with many games appealing to the hard core gamer, but not being afraid of pushing non standard games like the Dance mat ones, the singing one and that buzz off. Also games like GT, Tekken FF and GTA were all pick up and drop games which a beginner could pick up and enjoy. Those games appealed to girls and people who don't normally play games because they were simple and fun.

What do we see now?

Well The PS3 will have the same style of games coming up, which should appeal to the PS2 market, the Xbox360 is carying on with its blood and guts titles but is moving into the PS2 game market and well the Wii, well just the name suggests what sort of games we will see.
When I justify a console in my house a 'media station' will go a long way in supporting my arguement, just as argueing that a console we can both enjoy will. The PS3 price tag isn't the factor people make it out to be, its the Xbox360 games. If I can get a console which will support dance games, singing games and a few other titles (GTA anyone) then you can't justify the extra expense.

I realise a ton of Wii fanboys will start blasting me for this, but its the truth. Most people I know who aren't tech savey have seen the Xbox360 and been amazed at what it can do, but many of them have said "I'll wait for the PS3 cause that will be better" its a perception based on the PS2. If the Xbox360 can give the right games then it will win, in either case I'm not buying either console until I can get it with a game for £250.

Re:Its the Games, not anything else (1)

The Lone Man (1017800) | more than 7 years ago | (#16802340)

...and well the Wii, well just the name suggests what sort of games we will see. A potty training simulator? I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.

Never mind all that (1)

Salsaman (141471) | more than 7 years ago | (#16804466)

What about the _real_ mystery: does the PS3 come with Linux as standard or not !?
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