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History To Repeat Itself With PS3?

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the kutaragi-hopes-so dept.

390

Dr. Eggman writes to mention a 1up article looking at the way things were when the PS2 launched vs. next week's PlayStation 3 launch. The question: can history repeat itself? From the article: "PS2: Released one year after the lower priced Dreamcast, lauded for its great games, ease of development, and superior online service. PS3: Releasing one year after the lower priced Xbox 360, lauded for its great games, ease of development, and superior online service. PS2: Competition from Nintendo: A smaller, cheaper 'family friendly' console with a 'focus on gameplay.' PS3: Competition from Nintendo: A smaller, cheaper 'family friendly' console with a 'focus on gameplay.'" The article also looks at how things have changed for Sony since the last time around.

cancel ×

390 comments

The Other side of the coin (5, Informative)

rednip (186217) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798646)

It's a good article, in particular because the link at the end of the page gives a link to 10 reasons the PS2 won't be able to repeat the success of the PS2. [1up.com]

For me it's all about the price

Re:The Other side of the coin (4, Funny)

MaXiMiUS (923393) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798662)

That's the exact same article, and I think you mean the PS3 won't be able to repeat the success of the PS2.

Re:The Other side of the coin (1, Informative)

rednip (186217) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798738)

That's the exact same article, and I think you mean the PS3 won't be able to repeat the success of the PS2.
well, it's the second page to the article (I did say that it is a good article), and yes, that is a typo, but it wasn't mine, I copied it directly from the page.

Re:The Other side of the coin (2, Insightful)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798894)

The article is full of them. My personal favorite is the photo of the XBox 360 where the PS3 should be. (First set of images, even!) I almost have to wonder if 1UP has been hacked...

Re:The Other side of the coin (1)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798884)

No, I really think he was making a deeper statement about Sony being its own enemy.

Re:The Other side of the coin (1)

Mr. Underbridge (666784) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798734)

For me it's all about the price

Ah, but pricing is always more art than science. The other way to look at that issue is that Nintendo's making the cheap gaming console. And when Christmas rolls around, kids always want the impressive one.

Re:The Other side of the coin (2, Interesting)

IGTeRR0r (805236) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798890)

You have a valid point, but in this case, both the Wii and the PS3 look like gourmet products. I think kids would appreciate any 3 of the systems, as long as they get a few games too. $600 doesn't leave much room for any games, but $250 certainly does.

Re:The Other side of the coin (3, Funny)

fistfullast33l (819270) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799012)

$600 doesn't leave much room for any games

Of course, Sony not having many launch titles (Oblivion, I'm looking at you) means you don't need any games for your $600 videogame system!

Re:The Other side of the coin (1)

jZnat (793348) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799338)

That must be Sony's strategy then! Launch PS3 at the price you could have gotten a Wii with several games because either way you're going to spend the same amount. They're making up for the supply side to match the demand side.

Re:The Other side of the coin (3, Insightful)

Mr. Underbridge (666784) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799216)

You have a valid point, but in this case, both the Wii and the PS3 look like gourmet products. I think kids would appreciate any 3 of the systems, as long as they get a few games too. $600 doesn't leave much room for any games, but $250 certainly does.

You'd think that, but the other way of thinking would be, if you're going to spend $600 you'll damned sure buy some games for it! It's also effective market segmentation - restricted supply at the beginning with a high price tag, followed by increased supply and lower prices later.

I think what happened is they saw what went down with the Xbox 360. They see every unit being scraped up and sold on Ebay for between $600 and $1000. Sony probably figures if anyone is going to profit from the craze, it's going to be them. And if they have the sorts of supply problems that has plagued nearly every console launch in the history of mankind, demand WILL drive the price there anyway. No sense in watching someone else make the money instead.

Re:The Other side of the coin (1)

purpledinoz (573045) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798966)

At more than $300 price difference, I think people will be very hesitant to buy a PS3. Especially with Wii being much more innovative. Personally, I think Wii is going to kick-ass with their awesome new controller. I plan on buying a Wii sometime after the christmas rush. I hope my friends buy one first, so I can try it out!

Re:The Other side of the coin (4, Insightful)

creimer (824291) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798754)

That's funny. I'm reading "Just for Fun: The Story of an Accidental Revolutionary" by Linus Torvalds that was published in 2001. Linus predicted that Sony would be the next big thing after Microsoft -- if Sony got its act together. A few million laptop batteries and an overpriced game console later, I don't think Sony has a clue. Nintendo might if they get their act together.

Re:The Other side of the coin (1)

abradsn (542213) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798860)

I don't think he intended that book to be taken seriously. Maybe it was just for fun too?

Re:The Other side of the coin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16798800)

For me, it's all about a big arrogant corporation that doesn't seem to think of the consumer on any level. I don't care what they put out, I won't knowingly buy another Sony product, ever. If they re-brand products under another name to where I don't know if I'm buying Sony brand stuff, there's nothing I can do about that, but I'm going to do my best to speak with my pocket.

Re:The Other side of the coin (1)

Gnostic Ronin (980129) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798880)

Yeah, but I think they should have skipped the irrelevant first page. People who follow the console wars have already abandoned ps3, by and large. I say that because for all the game forums I'm on (and most like console RPGs, which the ps2 had tons of), I have yet to find one single person excited about the ps3. Their biggest potential fanbase isn't there. At the most you'll hear a noncommittal "I'll wait for [game X]", or "I'll wait for the price to drop". When the fanbase isn't excited, no one else will be.

Now as I said, this isn't a completely scientific survey, it's trolling around on gaming forums. But just from that alone, don't expect the "hardcore" to go for ps3. The nonhardcore won't buy for $600, even if the machine was smart enough to cook their breakfast, clean their house, and drive the car. Which leaves one potential fanbase for ps3 -- very rich gamers who don't follow gaming news (all 4 of them). Which means that quite possibly this is going to be the first console auctioned on ebay that doesn't sell.

ps3 is already "Dreamcasted", even before it ships. If sony was smart they'd drop the ps3 and do what sega does -- just make games.

Re:The Other side of the coin (4, Interesting)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798954)

I was reading the USA Today this morning, and they had an interesting outlook on the PS3 vs. the Wii vs. the XBox 360. It basically came down to:

PS3: You're not getting one. Ha!
Wii: Risky, but inexpensive.
XBox: Just fork over the cash for instant gratification.

I think that says a lot about the mainstream views on this generation of console.

The article can be read online here:

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/gaming/2006-11-09-con sole-cover_x.htm [usatoday.com]

Re:The Other side of the coin (0, Troll)

Twiceblessedman (590621) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799352)

Instant gratification? The 360 has a crappy library and the systems are usually faulty. I hardly call that instant gratification. Most people see it as an expensive piece of crap.

Re:The Other side of the coin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16798974)

Not sure if this supports your view or not, but here is what The Sports Guy [go.com] thinks about the PS3:

Random note: I weaseled my way into an advance launch of the PlayStation 3 in Beverly Hills Tuesday. It doesn't come out until Nov. 17. With that said, trust me on the following three words: buy Sony stock. ... Also, they list the price in the $500-700 range but that does NOT include the retainer for the divorce attorney. Which I'm going to need if I get this thing. Good God. The glory days of Intellivision football seem like they happened about 2,500 years ago.
Suffice it to say, there are some people who are very excited.

Re:The Other side of the coin (1)

LindseyJ (983603) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799236)

Suffice it to say, there are some people who are very rich.

That's not the real reason (5, Insightful)

mcvos (645701) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798916)

The real reason why the PS2 was such a success, is that it was a very cheap DVD player, and DVDs had just become established technology.

The PS3 is a cheap Blu-Ray player, but Blu-Ray is by no means established. Instead of using the DVD to launch the PS2, they're trying to do the reverse: using the PS3 to launch Blu-Ray. I don't think that will work nearly as well. In fact, I expect it to fail miserably.

Re:That's not the real reason (1)

jsolan (1014825) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799384)

I disagree. I knew several people with PS2's when they came out, and not a single person even used the DVD player, let alone decided to purchase a PS2 because of it. They all loved the original Playstation and/or liked the games that were out for PS2. None of them said "Oh there's a cheap dvd player! and bonus, it also plays a few games!" I doubt very much that many people bought a PS2 just because it had a dvd player built in, just like i highly doubt many people will buy a PS3 just because it has a blu-ray player built in. The PS2 was successful because it had exclusive games that people wanted, a control format that people were used to, and a price that was reasonable for most people.... plus they could still play their PS1 games that they invested money into.

summary: (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16798650)


same games, better graphics, pay us again

Simple Answers to Slashdot Questions (5, Funny)

vought (160908) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798934)

History To Repeat Itself With PS3?

No.

This has been another episode of Simple Answers to Slashdot Questions.

Re:summary: (1)

Crucial (97001) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799172)

Yes, but how is this any different than the Xbox 360? Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying I'm an advocate for either system. I'm seriously asking the question. Personally, I think the only really innovative system is the Wii. But over the years how much innovation has there really been in the Console market to begin with? For the last 20 years I can remember about console games, the only thing that ever really changed was the graphics.

Re:summary: (2, Interesting)

jZnat (793348) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799364)

Pretty much all the significant changes in video games have come from Nintendo (e.g. controllers, the existence of and evolution of, a few game genres).

Re:summary: (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16799252)

That sounds like the Pretendo Piss, just put the same shit into a new case and change the name. Call it an even more kiddie sounding name that sounds like what a child would say while going to the bathroom. Then the sheeple will pay once again for the same console the have already paid for.

Online support? (2, Insightful)

Enoxice (993945) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798656)

Maybe I just wasn't as well-informed back in '99-'00, but I don't recall much talk about online plans during the launches. I mean, ChuChu Rocket and PSO were big deals for the DC, but I don't recall the PS2 boasting superior online play right out of the gate...

Re:Online support? (1)

Thansal (999464) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798770)

err, TFSummery is badly worded

the dreamcast was the one boasting everything (including superior online play).

honestly, I was still a PC Fanboy at the time, and thus didn't pay any attention to the dreamcast and really do not know much about it.

Re:Online support? (1)

cdrudge (68377) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798784)

The network adapter wasn't launched until after the XBox, with it's included network adapter, was available. Sony needed to compete or lose significant sales due to a lack of online gaming so they came out with the network/modem adapter in 2002.

Re:Online support? (1)

KingVance (815011) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798888)

Dialup was king around those times... Most people had aol as their ISP...DC service didnt work with aol. Enter the stillbirth of online DC play

Re:Online support? (1)

jZnat (793348) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799402)

Don't forget how fucking hard it was (and still is) to get a broadband Dreamcast adaptor.

Re:Online support? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16799002)

Sony promised Toy Story graphics, hundreds of millions of polys/second, a widely used hard disk add-on to be used with an online Sony store selling music, movies, and games, as well as versatile online gaming. Articles describing it were featured in Newsweek and similar publications for months prior to the console's launch.

Sega launched SegaNet as the start of online gaming, as they were the forefront of console online gaming from the Saturn days. They didn't proclaim the rest.

Re:Online support? (1)

Akaihiryuu (786040) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799350)

Actually, I remember the early PS2 "online" reports from Sony (before it was launched). They claimed that they were going to a ethernet/broadband only online service (not even offering a modem), because their PS2 online service would be so awesome that a modem couldn't possibly handle it. Obviously, Sony never even *made* any type of online service themselves...and only a few games ever used the ethernet adapter (which was not even built in until the new slimline PS2 game out). It was really just a lame marketing attempt to defame the Dreamcast, which was "inferior" because it had a modem.

History doesn't repeat itself... (4, Insightful)

Total_Wimp (564548) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798674)

... because today is not like yesterday. For example, online game play wasn't as important when the Dreamcast was released. Also, sales were sluggish from the beginning as people held their money for the PS2 launch which was not the case with the 360.

The PS3 might still dominate, but it's not likely to be for the exact same reasons as in the past.

TW

Re:History doesn't repeat itself... (1)

Hao Wu (652581) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798914)

... because today is not like yesterday.
I believe history is very important for youthful men and women to learn. Touching live hand grenade is stupid thing to do, if you recently observed headless friends who did the same.

It is exactly the same with SONY. Dreamcasts can come true.

Re:History doesn't repeat itself... (1)

king-manic (409855) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799170)

... because today is not like yesterday. For example, online game play wasn't as important when the Dreamcast was released. Also, sales were sluggish from the beginning as people held their money for the PS2 launch which was not the case with the 360.

The PS3 might still dominate, but it's not likely to be for the exact same reasons as in the past.

TW


actually, it still doesn't. People like occasional online play and some really enjoy it (inclusing almost anyone here). But it's not a mainstream feature. Xbox live still isn't in a majority of the Xbox install base and most people don't like the "beat up by surly 15 year old" scenario onlineplay ussually entails.

Repeating history? I hope not.. (4, Informative)

Channard (693317) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798676)

... otherwise we can look forward to the PS3's lens giving out shortly after the warranty period and refusing to read half of the discs. The PS2 lens problems made the 360's failure rate look like a drop in the ocean? Nope, this isn't intended as flamebait - it happened to me, and I was only able to get it working, sort of, by cracking the PS2 open and changing the lens angle. What Joe Public who's never even opened a PC was supposed to do, other than buy a new one, I don't know.

Re:Repeating history? I hope not.. (1)

safiel (1016237) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799246)

Happened to me as well (pretty recently too), in fact I hardly know anyone who's had a PS2 for more then a couple years and hasn't had to get a new ones (for a few people they've had 2 break). It sucks when your shit breaks, having to spend $130 on a new ps2 that I paid $200 for a few years back sucks. But now with the PS3, the cost of replacement will be much higher, that's a risk I a nervious to take.

Re:Repeating history? I hope not.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16799280)

Sony does replace PS2's that have this issue free of charge even after the warrenty period has passed. I had a first-gen PS2 that had this issue. They give you the option for a repair or a replacement. It cost me nothing other than being without my PS2 for about a week.

Re:Repeating history? I hope not.. (1)

triffid_98 (899609) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799282)

The first-gen PS2 was notorious for that. IIRC the slim model fixed the problem, though they have issues (overheating/PSU failures) as well.
Given that Sony is putting brand new DVD tech into the PS3, I'm going to laugh my ass off when this happens yet again...

The PS2 lens problems made the 360's failure rate look like a drop in the ocean? Nope, this isn't intended as flamebait - it happened to me, and I was only able to get it working, sort of, by cracking the PS2 open and changing the lens angle.

Ease of what? (1)

grammar fascist (239789) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798678)

PS3 has ease of development going for it?

The article also compares "the average price for PS2 on ebay [sic] in November 2000" with "the price for the higher end PS3 when it releases in November 2006." Stock eBay vs. high-end retail price? And this is supposed to be a formula?

Re:Ease of what? (1)

Knuckles (8964) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798822)

PS3 has ease of development going for it?

You beat me to it. The cell sure is not simple to write for, and many developers are on the record saying so. According to some I've read (like here [gamepro.com] and here [slashdot.org] ) it might be not as hard as expected, or not as hard as PS2, but this does not say much since PS2 was considered very hard by most.

Re:Ease of what? (1)

Control Group (105494) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798876)

The phrase "lauded for its great games, ease of development, and superior online service" is meant to apply to the DC/360, depending on whether you're in the PS2 or PS3 column.

Re:Ease of what? (1)

Control Group (105494) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798836)

I think the "ease of development" was referring to the 360.

But yeah, the price point argument really struck me that way, too. If the best you can say about your price is that it's no higher than what the scalpers and scam artists were able to squeeze out of a gross mismatch between quantiy supplied and quantity demanded last time around, I don't think you've managed a ringing endorsement of your value.

Re:Ease of what? (1)

Knuckles (8964) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798892)

Hehe, grammar_fascist, two postings down someone explains [slashdot.org] that we are all mis-parsing the sentence, and that ease of development is actually attributed to DC and 360. I guess it's true if not obvious.

Wrong? (1, Insightful)

gcnaddict (841664) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798684)

"PS3: Releasing one year after the lower priced Xbox 360, lauded for its great games, ease of development, and superior online service."

Really? Great games? Not at launch.
ease of development? One reason why it has barely any launch titles is because it's so hard to develop for the console. Superior online service? Does it even have an online service?
No, I'm not anyone's fanboy. I still want to play MGS4.

Re:Wrong? (1)

DubbaJ (691044) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798744)

Those descriptors are used in talking about the 360, not the PS3.

Re:Wrong? (5, Insightful)

tempestdata (457317) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798762)

I think you're parsing that sentence wrong. Read it as :

"PS3: Releasing one year after the lower priced Xbox 360, [with the Xbox360 being] lauded for its great games, ease of development, and superior online service."

Re:Wrong? (1)

Ant P. (974313) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798998)

I was going to complain about the summary too but you're right, both statements make complete sense when you read them that way. Maybe Sony's entire attitude with the PS3 is based on the belief that no matter how hard they try to fuck things up, they'll get exactly the same success as they did last time.

Online service? Don't forget to get the update! (1)

norminator (784674) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798780)

Superior online service? Does it even have an online service?

Seriously, when you know a week before launch that you'll have to download an update for the console as soon as you buy it in order to use online features, that's not what I would call a superior online service.

Re:Online service? Don't forget to get the update! (4, Funny)

Control Group (105494) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798810)

Now that's what I call bootstrapping: you'll be able to get online only after you get online to download the patch.

On the contrary! (1)

AP2k (991160) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798922)

It seems to me that they are on the ball with it more than Microsoft. Sony sees bugs in their code and they fix and distribute them ASAP. Unlike Microsoft who waits around for weeks after the patch has been made to actually distribute it.

Re:On the contrary! (1)

Thansal (999464) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799060)

I dono, I wouldn't call implementing online play fixing a bug in online play, I would call it bootstrapping it onto the system after release.

Re:On the contrary! (1)

Osty (16825) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799234)

Unlike Microsoft who waits around for weeks after the patch has been made to actually distribute it.

You know, that "sitting around for weeks" part is usually called "testing", and is considered a good thing. Just because the fix might only take 5 minutes of developer time doesn't mean it's ready to ship. It's need to be verified that it fixes the original problem without compromising the gameplay or introducing other bugs in the process.

I would knock Sony for doing an immediate system update, but Xbox 360 did exactly the same thing. The hard drive shipped (and still ships, AFAIK) with an old build of the BC engine that only supports Halo 1 and 2 with no online play. To make BC even usable, you have to download the latest engine update (there was an update available at launch, and have since been several updates). If you can't get online, you can download and burn the update, or order a CD for the price of shipping, but it's still a launch-day update.

Re:Wrong? (2, Funny)

Control Group (105494) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798782)

Er...I'm pretty sure Live is an online service, and I'm reasonably certain the 360 has it. At least I hope it does, becaause I'm paying $50/yr for it.

Re:Wrong? (1)

Xugumad (39311) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799376)

I'm not in a country where the PS3 launches this year, so I'm going to have to use Amazon.com as a guide of PS3 launch titles (anyone got a list). From it's PS3 page ( http://www.amazon.com/PlayStation-3-Games/b/ref=am b_link_822552_2/103-0758594-8567865?ie=UTF8&node=1 4210751 [amazon.com] ) we have Full Auto 2 (sequel to a fairly bad XBox 360 game), Call of Duty 3 (out on everything else too), F.E.A.R. (ditto), Madden NFL 07 (and again), Sonic the Hedgehog (noticing a pattern?), Resistance: Fall Of Man (what? I believe we may have found a good new game!) and Need for Speed Carbon (also out for everything else under the sun). Even ignoring the fact these are mostly multi-platform, most aren't even that good...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the XBox 360 launch lineup was good (I got most of my entertainment from PGR3, and wanted to kill everyone who recommended PDZ and Kameo), I'm just saying the PS3 lineup isn't exactly brilliant either. Now, sure, the PS3 has MGS4 and FF13 (is that right? I lose count...), but then the XBox 360 has Dead Rising and Gears of War (whether not being sequels is good or bad is left as an excercise for the reader).

Development... if the XBox 360 was difficult to code for, PS3 developers are attempting the impossible. 7 asymmetric special purpose cores with a single generic CPU core, with some really interesting CPU cache setup! It's less a hardware architecture, more a excercise is developer pain.

Online service... did XBox Live do something to offend? Sure, it's expensive/overpriced, but it's really easy to use.

Reputation (1)

herczy (1024845) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798720)

Sony had a better reputation at the time of the PS2, so I think that this time, the sales figures will be a little different at least.

Re:Reputation (1)

Thansal (999464) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798848)

and Sega had a failing reputation as well. Combine that with online play not being the key seller that it is not (thanks largely to the XBox), and not particularly good marketing done by Sega, and you might start seeing a few differences.

Remember, people who make up lists of similareties between major events also try to corilate the killing of JFK and Lincoln.

Re:Reputation (1)

homer_ca (144738) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799222)

Not just reputation but financial health. Compare that to Microsoft which has unlimited cash to pour into marketing the 360.

Re:Reputation (2, Insightful)

triffid_98 (899609) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799382)

Sega didn't have any money for marketing, after their string of failures (32x, Sega CD, Saturn) they barely had enough capital to get the Dreamcast built in the first place.

I'd say the Dreamcast had a lot more in common with the Atari Lynx. Both were innovative platforms made by failing companies that died due to a complete lack of marketing.

and Sega had a failing reputation as well. Combine that with online play not being the key seller that it is not (thanks largely to the XBox), and not particularly good marketing done by Sega, and you might start seeing a few differences.

Re:Reputation (1)

Chaffar (670874) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798854)

As if people care. Grab anyone on the street and ask them about the Sony R00tkit fiaso, and see how many of them know about it.. then count those who actually care.
The fact is that the PS2's top titles have a fanbase like no other. Games like (from the top of my head) Tekken, MGS, Final Fantasy, Gran Turismo are enough to make people sell crack to their parents to be able to afford the PS3.
Hell if didn't have friends that could afford it, I would probably buy one myself ^^

Re:Reputation (1)

herczy (1024845) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799028)

As if people care. Grab anyone on the street and ask them about the Sony R00tkit fiaso, and see how many of them know about it.. then count those who actually care.
Living in a country where people don't care about bigger fuckups (hell, one of it made it's way to /. too), I think you're right. Probably the vast majority of people haven't heard about the rootkit stuff. But one of the gaming consoles targets are geeks and nerds, who should give a damn. But I'm not an expert.
Hell if didn't have friends that could afford it, I would probably buy one myself ^^
Good for you to have such great friends. :-)

Sony doesn't much care how they compare to Xbox... (4, Insightful)

rilister (316428) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798816)

i think people are a little confused about what Sony are trying to achieve with the PS3. Sure, it's going to be up against the Wii and XB360, but I'm guessing that's a secondary concern to Mr Stringer.

The PS2 sold 105million units. Let's say the PS3 is a disaster - how bad could it be? 50million? 25million?

Those are all Blu-ray devices. At least an installed base of 25million Blu-ray players sold in a few years time. Versus how many HD-DVD players? How can HD-DVD compete with that kind of a headstart?

Owning the next-gen DVD format is the prize here. HD-DVD is only 33% ahead of Blu-ray today, before the PS3 even hits the market. I think that's more precious to Sony than losing a bit of ground to Microsoft. Maybe they calculated on losing gaming market share this time round.

Re:Sony doesn't much care how they compare to Xbox (1)

djupedal (584558) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799166)

i think people are a little confused about what Sony are trying to achieve with the PS3

I think you're the one that is confused, sorry. Sony is all about long-term w/the PS3, and there is no single element of it that will make or break those goals.

Owning the next-gen DVD format is the prize here

Irrelevant...that token is off the table with today's announcement of a 'playz-all' drive. Poof - gone. Risk-free for both sides and life goes on. Next problem?!

Re:Sony doesn't much care how they compare to Xbox (1)

StacysMom (1025726) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799368)

A "plays-all" drive wasn't announced today. What was announced was a single chip that does video decoding, DRM, various video outputs, etc. [1] [electronicsweekly.com] It's a piece of the pie, but not the whole thing. It's suggested that creating a single drive that reads both with be more difficult that building the decoding chip. [2] [boston.com]

Re:Sony doesn't much care how they compare to Xbox (1)

gyranthir (995837) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799190)

I agree with 100% of this, Even with the bad press almost every single presale around the country sold out. People are selling them for 3x-4x what they cost on Ebay, and the buzz for them even with 1 killer launch title is amazing. Coupled with coming with a Blu-ray HD DVD player this (entertainment center) console could very well set the pace for the market for HD DVDs and Console (Entertainment Center) gaming machines. Old saying applies "there is no such thing as bad press" as long as people are buzzing about you, you will be on there minds.

Re:Sony doesn't much care how they compare to Xbox (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16799220)

Wow. That is such a logical argument. In fact, let's follow that argument to its logical conclusion. So a movie format based on a console that sells millions of units is a guaranteed success, right? Well, that means UMD must be a raging success because its player has sold millions. And since there aren't many games (at least ones people want to play) for the PSP, people will buy movies to get some use out of their overpriced game console. So UMDs must be flying off the shelves, right?

P.S. The PS2 succeeded because Sony duped enough developers (like EA) into not supporting the Dreamcast by telling them the PS2 was going to cause a rift in space and time because it was so powerful. By the time developers realized Sony had conned them, it was too late. They won't make that mistake again (just like Universal refused to support Blu-ray after losing a ton of money on UMD). Witness EA cancelling NBA Live 07 for the PS3. No third-party developers are killing themselves to get stuff out for the PS3 launch(no online in Tony Hawk, etc.) like they did for the PS2. Developers are taking the path of least resistance- develop on the 360, port to the PS3 and spend a bare minimum of engineering time optimizing. Again, look at the poor framerate in Tony Hawk and the warmed over ports passed off as "exclusive sequels" in Ridge Racer 7 and Full Auto 2.

Re:Sony doesn't much care how they compare to Xbox (1)

Fozzyuw (950608) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799316)

hose are all Blu-ray devices...Owning the next-gen DVD format is the prize here.

I agree. I think Sony's trying to take a double edged sword here. It's what [slashdot.org] I've been [slashdot.org] thinking as well.

Cheers,
Fozzy

THIS FP FOR GNAA (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16798826)

muCh as WindoHws

History To Repeat Itself? (4, Funny)

Rik Sweeney (471717) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798830)

So basically it'll boil down to:

1. The naysayers will say that it'll suck
2. It'll sell beyond expectations
3. The naysayers deny the first statement and claim they knew all along

Re: History To Repeat Itself? (1)

kirun (658684) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799250)

1 and 2 are not mutually exclusive...

Re: History To Repeat Itself? (1)

nqz (778393) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799326)

So basically it'll boil down to:

1. The naysayers will say that it'll suck
2. It'll sell beyond expectations
3. The naysayers deny the first statement and claim they knew all along

You forgot:

4. ???
5. PROFIT!!!!

They forgot: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16798842)

PS2: Sony still on consumers' good side.
PS3: Sony has pissed consumers off with root kits, exploding batteries and limited production of PS3.

Re:They forgot: (1)

AliasTheRoot (171859) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798972)

Consumers mostly dont know, or even give a flying shit about those things. The issues are cost and availability, clearly this xmas is about early adopters - next xmas will be telling. Me i'm buying a wii, but my record isn't great have a dreamcast and a saturn.

Re:They forgot: (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799218)

I'm not so sure. Sure, the average consumer isn't concerend, but the first people to buy a PS3 are going to be tech savvy, and keep up to date with the tech news.

Re:They forgot: (1)

king-manic (409855) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799388)

Consumers mostly dont know, or even give a flying shit about those things. The issues are cost and availability, clearly this xmas is about early adopters - next xmas will be telling. Me i'm buying a wii, but my record isn't great have a dreamcast and a saturn.,/i>

I agree 100%. I plan on getting a PS3 but not until the first hardware revision. At that point I'm more likely to get one wihtout defectes )xbox 360 overheatign issues, PS2 disc read error, NES piss poor first gen copper contacts ect..). also by that time the price will fall from 699CND to 599CND. As well FXIII will problably be out as well as MGS4. Basically this price point and and current launch titles are to feed the early adopters who need to show off their dick size. The real battle is about 10 mo later.

Ease of development... really? (1)

neonux (1000992) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798850)

The PS2 is not known as a easy system for development and most developer's interview about PS3 projects has some lines about them telling PS3 is a very difficult system to develop for (mainly because you can't get very strong performance from the CELL CPU without extensive experience of multicore architecture, which is not very common in IT nowadays and even less in the game development world imho).

Also about the competition from Nintendo line, smaller, cheaper 'family friendly' console with a 'focus on gameplay was not much more than a marketing argument, with Wii I guess they pretty much achieved to meet the marketing promise.

The 2nd page tells the real story (1)

qaffle (264280) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798896)

I think the second page of the article is definitely the more interesting of the two: http://www.1up.com/do/feature?pager.offset=1&cId=3 155102 [1up.com] . Here they give the reasons why this launch's similarities aren't all positives. The PS2 may have been on ebay for $600, but the PS3 is coming from retail stores at MSRP of $600. That's a big difference.

Re:The 2nd page tells the real story (1)

IGTeRR0r (805236) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799006)

Makes me wonder what the PS3 will sell for on eBay. PS2 sold double its retail, so will people pay $1200 for the PS3? Bit much for a bit of entertainment.

JP PS3 60GB $989 at NCSX (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16799110)

http://www.ncsx.com/2006/110606/ncs1106f.htm [ncsx.com]


PS3 Final Pricing, Allocation Details
Playstation 3 - Big in Japan
NCS Update: 11:58AM EST
      Japanese suppliers took delivery of their PS3 consoles about 6 hours ago in preparation of tomorrow's official launch in Japan. Quantities are scarce and prices are high. Much higher than their lofty projections from a couple of months ago. NCS will re-confirm preorders with our customers by email today but note that launch pricing is as follows:

20GB Playstation 3 Unit: US$879 + shipping
60GB Playstation 3 Unit: US$989 + shipping (Limited stock)

      Please be aware that even if you confirm at the higher prices, stock may not be available for the first shipment that is scheduled to arrive on November 13 (Monday) or November 14. Suppliers are essentially allocating their inventory to whomever will pay their asking price. If a competitor bumps their offer price up tonight and we're unwilling to match the higher bid, we'll receive reduced quantities on Monday-Tuesday.

Volatile Pricing
      The current PS3 prices are unstable. Despite the demand for the PS3 at the moment, prices can drop by as much as US$100+ within the following 2 weeks. If you confirm your order at the higher price, we cannot accept a cancellation since we will be locking in and paying the higher prices tonight for the launch inventory.

NCS Recommendation
      If the first batch of PS3 games aren't that compelling to your hardcore gaming sensibilities, NCS advises that you wait 2 weeks after the Japanese launch to see where prices settle. We expect them to be lower, especially with the imminent launch of the USA Playstation 3 on November 17.


Re:The 2nd page tells the real story (1)

Zantetsuken (935350) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799284)

what the hell were those things, "Tickle me elmo" or something of the sort a few years ago I think? they were on the level of your average overpriced $30 USD little kids toys, and yet they went for how much on ebay?

in fact I just checked on wikipedia [wikipedia.org] , with it saying:
In 1996, the Tickle Me Elmo was the "Must Have" toy. Many parents literally fought other parents in North American toy stores to purchase one of the toys for Christmas. The short supply of the toy, due to unexpected demand, meant that stores hiked the price on the dolls drastically. Newspaper classifieds even sold the plush toy for hundreds of US dollars. People reports that the $28.99USD toy fetched as much as $1500.
so the price jump is proportionally nothing for the PS3, which at the absolute least can be used to play movies, and install linux if you want and used as a desktop computer, etc - compared to crappy automation and playback of a soundfile in an elmo or furby, which after the month that it entertains the kid, is at best used for a "furbeowulf [trygve.com] " parallel clustered computing...

History's not repeating (4, Informative)

Volante3192 (953645) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798924)

PS2: Competition from Nintendo: A smaller, cheaper 'family friendly' console with a 'focus on gameplay.' released one year after the PS2

PS3: Competition from Nintendo: A smaller, cheaper 'family friendly' console with a 'focus on gameplay.' released concurrently with the PS3."


Fixed your article. Where's my co-author credit?

No great games, difficult development, unproven OL (1)

jchapman16 (300859) | more than 7 years ago | (#16798978)

1up gets it wrong. Again. Look at the PS3 launch titles; there isn't a "great game" among them. According to nearly every developer interview and blog, the PS3's cell processor and development environment is quite difficult to program for. The online service is far from "superior"; it lacks critical features that have been part of Microsoft's offering since the last generation and what it does offer is still nebulous and unproven. The information is this article is garbage; it's either been written to generate traffic from fanboys or generate money from Sony's PR budget.

Re:No great games, difficult development, unproven (1)

LoverOfJoy (820058) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799160)

The "great games" in the summary is referring to dreamcast and xbox360 games. Same with superior online service, and ease of development.

It said:
"PS2: Released one year after the lower priced Dreamcast, lauded for its great games, ease of development, and superior online service. PS3: Releasing one year after the lower priced Xbox 360, lauded for its great games, ease of development, and superior online service.
It would have been clearer had it said: "PS2: Released one year after the lower priced Dreamcast. The Dreamcast was lauded for its great games, ease of development, and superior online service. PS3: Releasing one year after the lower priced Xbox 360. The Xbox 360 was lauded for its great games, ease of development, and superior online service. Even if it just said, "which was" after dreamcast and xbox 360. The commas can throw people off into thinking the lower priced console was one point and what followed were unrelated additional points when in fact what followed was a description of the lower priced console.

Last line in the article (1)

Thansal (999464) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799014)

When a major third party tells us "We want to see Sony fail," there's a problem.


Who said this?

seriously, I don't remember anyone saying they WANT Sony to fail, most comments I have seen have been a desire to see all 3 systems do well, for a more open and competative game market....

any one?
link highly apreciated.

Re:Last line in the article (1)

badboy_tw2002 (524611) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799202)

I can guarantee you that's the feeling among third party publishers and developers. What possible gain is it for one manufacturer to have a virtual monopoly. Plus with warring manufacturers you get sweet deals like delayed "exclusives" and the like. Its in no one's best interest to have a console fail other than the competing manufacturers and fanboys.

Re:Last line in the article (1)

Typhon100 (641308) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799268)

Such a comment would most likely be made off the record or anonymously.

Re:Last line in the article (1)

Xugumad (39311) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799422)

I believe Square Soft (Final Fantasy people) have publically said they don't want any one platform to succeed, which is why they're not making all their games PS3 exclusive (anyone got a URL?), but that's as strong a comment as I can remember from any major games company, at least publically.

It's the price, stupid. (2, Insightful)

poot_rootbeer (188613) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799030)

If we're going to look at the past to predict the future, let's look at these facts:

No console with a launch price higher than $300 (at the time of launch) has ever been a success.

No console with a launch price higher than $400 (adjusted for inflation to 2006 dollars) has been a success since prior to The Crash of 1982.

Sony took a huge risk in pricing their new console so far outside of the historical comfort zone for price, and I don't think the outlook for them is good at all. I only wonder what derisive name will ultimately be attached to their failure:
P$3?
PS3DO?
PS3O-GEO?

Re:It's the price, stupid. (1)

laffer1 (701823) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799324)

Last I checked, the xbox 360 isn't all that cheap either. The problem most people have with the price is that they are forced to only buy one console. Most real gamers have two consoles and that's why there have always been at least two popular consoles. Nintendo and Sega held the crown in the 16bit era and there was atari and nintendo early on. The other factor is that you can buy a whole PC for the price of these things. (not from sony) I can go to dell and buy a PC for less than the launch price of the PS3. What is a better online/gaming platform? The other problem is the cell processor isn't as amazing as people thought. Remember, IBM used to say the same thing about POWER and while i like a good PPC box its not 10x better than an intel chip is it?

I'm an older gamer, and I have 7 consoles in the house. During this last generation I bought the gamecube and xbox. I plan on buying a Wii, and I will not buy an xbox 360 unless the price drops to a point I can justify the cost. I have avoided Sony because I don't think the games on the PS2 look very good and I don't like the play control. Sega didn't have as good of graphics either, but I still found the games fun and loved the play control. I know a large number of people disagree with me and are sony fanyboys but I think its time you guys realize you are rooting for your sega. They will go down and Microsoft will dethrown them. I thought it would be nintendo for awhile, but sony has screwed themselves on price and overhyped the hardware. Sega did that too with the saturn. The boys in redmond are here to stay.

I also figure HD-DVD will take over since I like blueray. It has the better name and the specs are terrible which means they can sell us another format in a few years. They will want to do that just as they want to make my DVD collection obsolete.

Sega Issues (4, Interesting)

therage96 (912259) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799058)

One important item to make note of here is that while the Sega Dreamcast was itself a decent system, Sega had already burned a lot of its customers with their numerous "1.5 systems." What I mean by that is, all of the many systems they created as extensions of current systems (Sega CD, 32X, etc..) that they sold as the next big thing, but completely failed on when it came to supporting them. I myself bought the 32X for $130 when it came out, and how many games were made for it? Less than 60. Same with the Saturn, the ultimate 2D system, suddenly found itself floundering when the Playstation focused solely on 3D games and Sega dropped it, and went on with the Dreamcast. After all of those, you could be sure I wasn't about to spend another dime on a Sega system, because how do I know its not another "1.5" system than will have its support cut out from under it in only a few months time.

PS3 XBL? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16799082)

Who the hell is saying the PS3 has better online service? The last word I have heard regarding online service to this day is that everyone is still at the altar of XBL, except for some microtransaction nasties.

Who writes these, 12 year olds? (2, Funny)

Inoshiro (71693) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799124)

" This one costed $300."

The past tense of cost is cost. You sound like a retard or an elementary school child when you write it in a "real" article. This is the first line, too! Do they not hire editors at 1up?

Re:Who writes these, 12 year olds? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16799312)

According to our friends at Merriam Webster [m-w.com] ,

Main Entry: (2) cost ...
transitive verb ...
3) past costed : to estimate or set the cost of -- often used with out


Go back to k5. ;-)

Re:Who writes these, 12 year olds? (1)

Hazrek (900706) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799366)

1Up, in my experience is just another juvenile games site made to appeal to children. Their 'articles' are heavily biased, do not quote sources, feature poor grammar and 'edgy' attitude, etc. It should never be taken as actual news. Not that I know of a reasonably mature games site...I haven't read anything like that since the paper NextGen magazine died.

Its not the same (2, Insightful)

Squarewav (241189) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799194)

What killed the dreamcast wasn't the PS2 directly. What killed it was Segas poor reputation with its past systems. The Sega Saturns 3d support was very poor compared to PS1 and N64,and died off rather quickly. Segas Add-ons for the Genesis, Sega CD, 32X, 32x-CD, Sold moderitly well, but had poor games, and killed of right away when Saturn came out.

So when Sega rushed the dreamcast out to be the first of the new generation systems, people were hesitant about buying another sega product. Some people only used the Saturn as a stop-gap till the PS2 came out. The hype of the PS2 helped kill the dreamcast but it wasn't the only factor.

This time around PS3 is competing with Xbox360. Unlike Saturn the Xbox has proven itself as a strong system, and in many ways better then PS2.

Except it's a horrid thing to see. (1)

kinglink (195330) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799232)

The PS3 sounds exactly like the Ps2. And everyone knows it. If you had problems with the PS2, expect more from the ps3.

Even worse people jumped on board the ps2 for two reasons. A. It was the only system worth buying, (Sorry dream cast) the only system with a great legacy. B. It had GTA. C. It played your PS2 games and only costed 300 dollars.

Sony can pretend this is all good because it's the same, but Ps2's early launch saved them. PSX not really having competition for CD based systems saved them. However the 360 has an HD-DVD player now. Gamers won't care about blu-ray games unless they can see a real difference (they can't) Blu-ray might win, but the Ps3 is in a bad place.

Most of the points they made are scary because they are so bad for the system even while 1up is making it sound good. No one wants to buy a PS2... at least not for 600 bucks. People want to buy a PS3, they want a new system, and as much as tilt control sounds interesting, Nintendo has that for 250 and games completely built around it. And as much as better graphics sounds good, Microsoft has that for 300 or 400 (400 if you're smart). What exactly am I getting for 600 bucks? A cell processor that won't even reach full potential for 4 generations? A hyped machine? A paper weight with out an online network?

The 360 has the best position currently, and even in japan people are looking forward to blue dragon (more than zelda? How did Microsoft do that one?)

7th gen? 7th yawn. My grumpy old perspective (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16799302)

I am old enough to have seen every home video game system. Ever. Including the Odyssey and Fairchild. I even owned one -- Atari Video Pinball (the last one they made before the 2600).

I actually wanted to buy a 2600 in 1979, but when I went to look at one it was side-by-side with the spanking-new Atari 400 computer for about 200 bucks more. That was the end of consoles for me.

With every single console since, the computer on my desk had more raw power, better graphics, and better gameplay (via the keyboard) than any console of each era. Every console title was either directly available on the computer or a clone just like it was.

The article makes big deals out of Sony Online & XBox Live, while Doom players have been online since 1995, and online computer games (like via Compuserve) date to the late '70s.

They also keep claiming that the PS3 is a bargain blu-ray player. In 1979, the financial decision was Videogame brain-rot vs. the benefits of a real computer. Years later, the real computer has more than paid for itself. I'd still make the same decision today.

Years from now, none of these things will be anything but doorstops.

(And that's regardless of the experiences of one 500-year-old Cartman.)

Now get off my lawn, you damn kids!

Dupe (1)

Glacial Wanderer (962045) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799306)

This is a dupe of the other million PS3 articles I've seen on slashdot. I find it unlikely that there will be any real new information before the PS3 launch in a week (actually I bet there is no new info there either); however, I'm sure there will be more than one PS3 article on slashdot before it is released. I'm not sure whether I should blame the editors or all of us readers for reading the same information again and again.

Re:Dupe (1)

HeavenlyBankAcct (1024233) | more than 7 years ago | (#16799400)

Or you could just blame 'viral marketing' and astroturf marketing techniques. That's what I do.

I find it hard to believe that this many (ahem) journalists would actually WANT to copy Sony press releases verbatim and pass them off as news or some kind of insight. I'm willing to bet that somewhere, somebody has greasy palms.
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