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Youtube Video Prompts FBI Probe of LAPD

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the everyone-is-watching dept.

537

PachecoJ writes "The AP has a story of a Youtube video showing police brutality that has sparked an FBI probe of the LAPD. A group called 'Cop Watch LA' placed the video online to draw attention to the actions by officers. The officers pictured in the video are now being defended by police defense attorney John Barnett, who defended the officers in the 'Rodney King' trial of 1991." From the article: "A search on YouTube for the terms 'police brutality' found more than 500 videos, including ones that claim to show police violence in the U.S. and as far away as Egypt and Hungary. A search of Google's video site also yielded hundreds of videos. In response to the surge in amateur videos, some law enforcement agencies have installed cameras in squad cars to protect officers against false allegations."

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Are we all really that suprised? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16808146)

We are all human, and there are days where people get out of control. This is a tough job, with a lot of high stress. I'm not surprised at all that there are hundreds of instances where an officer may have overstepped justified force. But, again, I would also easily believe that there are lots of cases where it was justified. We are not just robots that can 'reset' ourselves after a highly dangerous situation, so some people might overreact when in another siutation so soon after a stressful one.

Anyway, that's my two cents :)

Re:Are we all really that suprised? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16808282)

So it's ok if I start beating the shit out of people because they annoy me? Because they insult me? Because I'm stressed out? I don't see the logic here. Cops have many ways to incapacitate someone, there is no need to bash there heads in after that.

Some people flip burgers, some people fix computers, and some people enforce our laws. They are all just jobs and if both cops and civilians would begin treating them like normal human beings doing a job life would probably be better for the majority of us out there. Just because someone is wearing a uniform does not mean you should respect them, fear them, or treat them any different then anyone else.

Re:Are we all really that suprised? (2, Insightful)

ShaneThePain (929627) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808312)

""""Some people flip burgers, some people fix computers, and some people enforce our laws. They are all just jobs and if both cops and civilians would begin treating them like normal human beings doing a job life would probably be better for the majority of us out there. Just because someone is wearing a uniform does not mean you should respect them, fear them, or treat them any different then anyone else.""""

Wrong.
Police, military, and other authority figures are not just your average joe. They are higher, and must be treated as such. Just be glad we have social mobility so anyone can be an authority figure.

Re:Are we all really that suprised? (5, Insightful)

b0s0z0ku (752509) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808456)

Police, military, and other authority figures are not just your average joe. They are higher, and must be treated as such. Just be glad we have social mobility so anyone can be an authority figure.

Nah, the point is that they are your average Joes and Janes doing a job. Just because they're doing a particularly tough job shouldn't mean that they aren't held accountable for their breaches of the law. In fact, they should be held *more* accountable, since if cops are seen as brutal without accountability, citizens will lose their respect for the law, so examples must be made.

-b.

Re:Are we all really that suprised? (4, Insightful)

BakaHoushi (786009) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808664)

A uniform does not means you should respect someone. It's the actions of the person in the uniform that need respect, or sometimes, a lack thereof. Cops can be corrupt and bad people, too. Soldiers can be sadistic assholes who are for the most part, worthless except for their ability to kill.

This, however, does not mean all cops and soldiers are like that. But by no means are they all saints. Stressed out or not, you don't have the right to beat someone when it's not a necessity. I can certainly understand the desire to (I currently am a student part time and work retail part time. I deal with more morons per day than I care to calculate, but the people cops must deal with... I don't envy them.) But that's still no better a justification than "she was asking for it" as a defense for rape.

There are good cops and soldiers out there, and while I don't always agree with what they do (moreso for the soldiers), I respect their patience, and their dedication for helping people. But that doesn't mean anyone in a uniform deserves jack shit from you. Some of them are still assholes. As the saying goes, a turds a turd, no matter how you dress it up or polish it off.

Re:Are we all really that suprised? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16808694)

"Police, military, and other authority figures are not just your average joe. They are higher, and must be treated as such. Just be glad we have social mobility so anyone can be an authority figure."

Key point here being they chose the job. I'll admit I have some respect for cops in Gary, Indiana and Washington DC where they literally put their life on the line just donning a uniform and are kept busy from the time they show up until the day is over, and sometimes even after that. They chose that life though and could at anytime turn in their badge and pursue any other career they desired.

What I am more referring to is the small town cop which has nothing to do but wrongfully arrest and harass innocent people so that he can keep his job or any cop who feels that laws and rights can be tossed out the window as soon as you feel like it.

They can only take soo much (0, Troll)

Joebert (946227) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808148)

Suspect repeatedly yells "I can't breathe ! I can't breathe"

Yeah, I tend to have a hard time breathing when I'm yelling & struggling with the police too.

Come on, I think cops are a pain in the ass as much as the next guy, but they don't just beat you for no reason.
What did the guy do to get himself into that position ?
I'm willing to bet it wasn't jaywalking.

Re:They can only take soo much (5, Insightful)

teh kurisu (701097) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808214)

Doesn't matter what he did. I saw the video, and punching the guy several times in the face went far beyond reasonably force, especially as he was already adequately restrained, and in any case it is not the job of the police to hand out punishment.

Re:They can only take soo much (0, Redundant)

Ucklak (755284) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808284)

Did you see the 20 minutes before the video?

Re:They can only take soo much (5, Insightful)

starwed (735423) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808380)

If the subject is adequately restrained, it doesn't really matter what was happening up until that point.

The video is propaganda. (-1, Troll)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808498)

And given the previous unseen struggle for restraint, was the suspect adequately restrained?

Until we see what went on beforehand this video is propaganda.

 

Re:The video is propaganda. (5, Informative)

fohat (168135) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808564)

One officer has his knee on the guys neck, they both have his arms. While the officer on the left is calling it in, the officer on the right begins punching the guy while he is saying he can't breathe, It does not look to me like the guy is continuing to struggle at that point. They should be completing the handcuffing, but instead the other officer punches him several times in the face. I think you are just trolling. Go look at it again if you aren't.

Re:The video is propaganda. (1, Flamebait)

hkmwbz (531650) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808642)

He should not have run away from the police or put up a fight to begin with. Police officers are only human, and they don't want to get hurt any more than anyone else does. You run away and try to fight them, and you are asking for trouble.

The video IS propaganda. (1)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808696)

while he is saying he can't breathe,


How could he speak if he couldn't breathe? Watch the video. He's both breathing and speaking. Not only that, before the officer punches him he tries to get a grip on the officers upper thigh or groin with his right hand. Watch the video. 15 seconds in. Given the proximity to the officer's groin I'm not surprised he got hit.

There are a number of "vital points" on the human body which will end a fight damned near instantly. The big three are eyes, throat and groin, if you let someone anywhere near any of them you're in big trouble. Perhaps the officer was more cognizant of the potential danger than you are.

 

Re:The video is propaganda. (5, Insightful)

MadEE (784327) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808612)

He was unable to prevent being punched in the face, that is a pretty clear sign that he was well restrained.

Of course.. (1)

The Creator (4611) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808684)

That is where we see the stuntmen dress up as cops and robbers and, plan the scene - Because there is no other situation that whould exuse what we see in the video.

Re:They can only take soo much (1)

WingedEarth (958581) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808474)

What's so unreasonable about that? Sometimes people need a good punch in the face (or three), and who better than the police to do it? It helps to stop people from being whiny, cowardly worms.

Re:They can only take soo much (1)

b0s0z0ku (752509) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808510)

Sometimes people need a good punch in the face (or three), and who better than the police to do it? It helps to stop people from being whiny, cowardly worms.

You're saying that there are no bad apples among cops. I know some cops. Most of them are decent folk at least when off the job. There are, however, a few power hungry bastards who ruin the image of cops in everyone's eyes and for the sake of respect for the law would be better off being taken out back and shot.

-b.

Re:They can only take soo much (1)

nathanh (1214) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808532)

Doesn't matter what he did. I saw the video, and punching the guy several times in the face went far beyond reasonably force, especially as he was already adequately restrained, and in any case it is not the job of the police to hand out punishment.

He obviously was not adequately restrained because they couldn't get the cuffs on him. And despite his claims that he "could not breathe" the fact that he had enough breath to speak proves him a liar.

I see no brutality here. I see two cops in a difficult situation doing their best to cuff a dangerous criminal. What do you think they should have done, got off him and asked him pretty please to put his hands behind his back? Gave him a foot massage while feeding him grapes? I have no sympathy for the criminal here. When two cops are sitting on you and are repeatedly saying "put your arms down" you do NOT fight them. You do as you are told.

Re:They can only take soo much (2, Insightful)

teh kurisu (701097) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808668)

He obviously was not adequately restrained because they couldn't get the cuffs on him.

He was in no position to inflict any harm on either of the police officers, defend himself or escape. That is adequate restraint. The penalty for resisting arrest is not a punch in the face and a police officer has no right to deal out that punishment either.

Re:They can only take soo much (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16808670)

I see two cops in a difficult situation doing their best to cuff a dangerous criminal... I have no. sympathy for the criminal here.

He is not a criminal, he's a suspect. Its a judge (and possibily jury's) job to determine if he's a criminal, not the police's and not yours.

Re:They can only take soo much (5, Insightful)

Tim Browse (9263) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808714)

What do you think they should have done, got off him and asked him pretty please to put his hands behind his back? Gave him a foot massage while feeding him grapes?

You're right - between the foot massage/grape option and the 'repeatedly punching subdued suspect in the face' option, there is no middle ground.

When two cops are sitting on you and are repeatedly saying "put your arms down" you do NOT fight them. You do as you are told.

I think you're underestimating the survival reflex here. As an asthmatic, I know (like thousands of other asthmatics) the terror of not being able to breath, and the panic it causes. If the suspect genuinely was unable to breath, it may have been all he could manage to do to just wave his arms around and croak "I can't breathe" now and then, rather than trying to punch the officers and struggle like hell. When you can't breathe, I'm guessing a lot of people would fight like hell until they can. If I was in his situation, and actually unable to breathe, I'm not sure I'd be able to put my arms calmly by my side and wait for the officer to stop suffocating me.

And the point that if he can't breathe, then he can't say that he can't breathe is just stupid. Believe me, someone fighting for breath will vocalise their distress if they think it will help.

I'm not trying to patronise you re: being in the position of not being able to breathe easily, but I think you're underestimating (or just not remembering) the panic it can cause.

(btw, I offer no opinion as to whether the suspect involved is a scumbag or not.)

Re:They can only take soo much (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16808616)

So was the guy an actual criminal who initiated force (aggression) against another human being, or was he beaten for a victimless crime (a crime against government, not any one individual, like violation of drug laws)?

Re:They can only take soo much (5, Insightful)

krbvroc1 (725200) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808224)

Come on, I think cops are a pain in the ass as much as the next guy, but they don't just beat you for no reason.

Yeah, sometimes the suspect is black. Sometimes they dont have the 'right attitude'. Sometimes you get a cop who had a bad day and abused their power to feel better about themselves. And sometimes you deserve it.

Re:They can only take soo much (1)

GNT (319794) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808418)

It doesn't f'ing matter that you may deserve it. Otherwise we might just as well start water-boarding kidnapper suspects and murder suspects because it could save lives. And I "pity the fool" of a cop who thinks he's right about this attitude when the civil suit of an innocently-accused man lands on his doorstep.... and god-forbid, wrongful death suit...

Re:They can only take soo much (1)

OeLeWaPpErKe (412765) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808452)

Glad you included that last one.

Keep in mind that proof, or even a strong indication that an officer committed any of the first 3 will get him fired and off the streets.

Re:They can only take soo much (4, Informative)

macaulay805 (823467) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808280)

A little background regarding this incident that I can recall (covered days ago on other places, can't remember where);

1. Offender is a known "Gordon Street" gang banger in Los Angeles.
2. Offender had a warrant out for his arrest for accepting stolen goods.
3. Offender was running from the police officers before they had tackled them.
4. In the video, you can see the offender grabbing the officer's inner thigh before the officer started to punch the offender.

In my opinion, although this offender did get what he deserve regarding the first set of punches, I believe the officer went a little overboard on the second set of punches (first set is to let go of his inner thigh, the second set was to get him to submit to a roll-over for handcuffing).

Thats just my thoughts, please excersize your independant thinking!

Re:They can only take soo much (1, Insightful)

fredklein (532096) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808358)

1. Offender is a known "Gordon Street" gang banger in Los Angeles.

Correction: The cops SAY he is a gang member.

3. Offender was running from the police officers before they had tackled them.

Um, if THIS is what they do to people, is it any wonder people run from them??

4. In the video, you can see the offender grabbing the officer's inner thigh before the officer started to punch the offender.

You forgot to mention the cop was KNEELING ON THE GUYS NECK.

There wasn't much pressure on his neck (1)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808574)

If there was he wouldn't have been capable of speaking. He wouldn't have been breathing and he would have blacked out within 10 - 15 seconds. He was clearly speaking, breathing and still struggling.

 

Re:There wasn't much pressure on his neck (1)

fredklein (532096) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808638)

That's only if his breathing was cut off completely. If he turned his head, and the cops knee was on the SIDE of his neck, rather than stright against his larynx, then he would be able to breath somewhat, but it might still be difficult.

Also, look a few posts down at what the AC says:
Do you really expect long, drawn out (but technically correct) explaination? "Excuse me officer(s). The physical position I am in, what with your kneeling on my neck and all, combined with the copius amounts of pepper-spray you sprayed me with, added to by the stress of this situation, is making it quite difficult to breathe." Or would you just gasp out"I can't breathe-"?

Re:They can only take soo much (1)

LurkerXXX (667952) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808366)

It's kind of hard to roll over when someone is kneeling on your neck.

If anyone was kneeling on my neck I'd probably grab an inner thigh or whatever I could so that I could start breathing again too.

Re:They can only take soo much (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16808310)

Another police video taken completely out of context ... **yawn**

Re:They can only take soo much (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16808320)

Yeah, I tend to have a hard time breathing when I'm yelling & struggling with the police too.

1) He was not struggling until the cop punched him 3 times in the face.
2) The cop was kneeling on his neck. That just maybe might have something to do with the guy's breathing
3) They used peperspray on him after he was beignheld down. THat also might affect his breathing
4) Do you really expect long, drawn out (but technically correct) explaination? "Excuse me officer(s). The physical position I am in, what with your kneeling on my neck and all, combined with the copius amounts of pepper-spray you sprayed me with, added to by the stress of this situation, is making it quite difficult to breathe." Or would you just gasp out"I can't breathe-"?

Come on, I think cops are a pain in the ass as much as the next guy, but they don't just beat you for no reason.

Spoken like someone with no real-world experience.
Let me guess- you're white, middle-class, and live in a small town?

What did the guy do to get himself into that position ?
I'm willing to bet it wasn't jaywalking.


RTFA. He failed to show up in court.

Re:They can only take soo much (1)

LindseyJ (983603) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808434)

Spoken like someone with no real-world experience.
Let me guess- you're white, middle-class, and live in a small town?


Haha. Don't I wish that it was really black people that are the ones that are discriminated against in this country. It would sure make things easier for an average joe white guy like me if our society wasn't completely discriminatory against me and people like me.

Re:They can only take soo much (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16808548)

Poor oppressed white boy, wouldn't you much rather have grown up in a ghetto... give me a fucking break.

Re:They can only take soo much (1)

Detritus (11846) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808330)

Repeatedly punching someone in the face is not normal police procedure. Pepper spray, compliance holds, and baton strikes to the arms and legs are normal police procedure.

Re:They can only take soo much (1)

Joebert (946227) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808402)

Repeatedly punching someone in the face is not normal police procedure.

What do you propose he should have done ?
Let go of the suspect so he could grab his pepper spray ?

Too many people give theese guys a hard time for trying to defend themselves.

Re:They can only take soo much (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16808388)

Yeah, I tend to have a hard time breathing when I'm yelling & struggling with the police too.

The fact that the cop was putting his knee on this guy his throat may also have a certain impact on the ability to catch some air, don't you think?

Re:They can only take soo much (4, Insightful)

donscarletti (569232) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808588)

I'm sure the guy deserved it, that's not the point. The point is that if he deserved it he should have been arrested in a professional manner, given a fair trial and THEN punished. The courts are there to hand out punishment, not the police, the police are for grabbing suspects, gathering evidence and using force only to control current, dangerous situations, not as agents of retribution. What's the point of having fair courts if your punished before your put before them?

Re:They can only take soo much (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16808718)

"but they don't just beat you for no reason."

How incredibly naive. Law enforcement officers (LEOs) are just people, plain and simple. It's an tough job - tougher than any cubicle dweller will ever know. But regular people can snap. That will never make it excusable but simply understandable.

-Take a sample of hundreds of thousands of people (the LEO population in the US).
-Then bias that sample with the psychological pressures of a physically dangerous job.
-Further bias it with the attraction the profession holds for those who enjoy exerting power over others, who become statistically overrepresented.

You get a group more likely than the average population to committ spousal abuse, child abuse, and abuse alcohol. These are accepted and established facts (see annual FBI stats, FOP publications or that NIH study in Psychology Today a few months ago.) And these are just those cases that get reported. I don't think it's much of a stretch to suggest that this same sample would occasionally have a tendency to get carried away with its use of force.

It happens. It's wrong. But as a been-there-done-that, I am forced to believe that it's a near inevitable byproduct of stressors and predispositions in a population that large. They should be punished as much for their crimes as for the violation of trust.

heh (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16808152)

in LAPD, police fucks you!
(that's an Ice-T 'fuck the police' reference btw)

Re:heh (1)

Lord Kano (13027) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808378)

Ice-T did Cop Killer with Body Count. It was NWA that did Fuck Tha Police.

LK

Re:heh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16808720)

Isn't Ice-T playing a cop on Law & Order now?

Is it that bad? (5, Insightful)

cptgrudge (177113) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808154)

In response to the surge in amateur videos, some law enforcement agencies have installed cameras in squad cars to protect officers against false allegations.

Why exactly would amateur videos help create the false allegations? Are people doing a little post-production work on them before they go up online to show a closed fist hitting not once, but twice? If anything, I'd think that video in squad cars would reduce the possibility of police brutality, since the cops know that they are being recorded on video, and an allegedly beaten person can get that video.

Re:Is it that bad? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16808210)

i bet the video cameras all tend to be out "of order" when such events actually happen, or the orhter clasic, " we cant find the tape "

Re:Is it that bad? (1)

b0s0z0ku (752509) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808542)

i bet the video cameras all tend to be out "of order" when such events actually happen, or the orhter clasic, " we cant find the tape "

That tends not to fly too well with many courts, especially in civil suits where the standard is a "preponderance of evidence" not "beyond a reasonable doubt."

-b.

Is it that bad?-COPS(TM) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16808218)

Agreed, and as COPS has shown. The video camera in the cop car is nothing new. I just hope the video tape is write-once.

Re:Is it that bad? (5, Insightful)

krbvroc1 (725200) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808238)

And sometimes when things are going to get 'rough' they turn off the cameras or put other squad cars in the camera field of vision to defeat the recording.

Re:Is it that bad? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16808476)

I was suspended for something like this. The one time I accidentally positioned the R.A.T. system out of the FOV, it was this routine stop with these stupid drunk teenage chicks. All I did was tell three of them to get out, and without any warning, certainly without my implying them to do so, they start sobbing, stripping down to their underwear, and making out.

What was I supposed to do? Mace them? Of course not, I don't take out my personal problems on my work. So I did the only logical thing: began furiously masturbating.

Now this fourth one looked passed out in the back, but she was really recording the whole damn thing with her stupid phone-with-a-damn-video-camera-in-it. I'm sure from the angle she was at, it looked really bad when I grabbed the redhead by her hair and shot all over her face. Yes, she was really crying, but it was a good decision, one I still stand by. If that damn car camera had been on, this whole situation would never have happened, I'd still have a job and no probation. But you try explaining that to 12 fucking communist jurors.

So my little word of advice to any current or prospective peace officers is this: if you find yourself in a dangerous situation like I was in, make them take every living thing out of that damn car an be sure they strip down to BARE ASS.

YES! (4, Interesting)

misanthrope101 (253915) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808622)

As a teenager I worked at an electronics company that built, among other things, circuit boards for in-car cameras for police cars. When I first got the job, the cameras were on if the flashing lights were on. That was it. Easy-peasy. A week into the job, we changed the design per the requests of the customers--the police departments wanted a way to leave the flashing lights on, but turn the camera off. Even at that tender age, I thought "Why would they want to turn off the camera?" Why, indeed. I still have never heard a remotely convincing argument why a police officer would not want to film his or her interaction with the public. Since they're so frequently accused of impropriety or even brutality, wouldn't a tape help them? Well, it would, unless they weren't innocent. The only time a cop would want the option of turning off the camera would be if they wanted the option of doing something they don't want a record of. I'm just amazed that more people aren't skeptical.

Re:Is it that bad? (4, Insightful)

green1 (322787) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808264)

>> Are people doing a little post-production work on them

not so much changing the video, as possibly chopping the start or end off... imagine watching a cop shoot someone, without seeing the part where that person drew a gun and threatened the cop. it is so easy to get the wrong impression just by cutting in to an incident part way through.

having cruiser-cams is a good thing for everyone, it helps reduce the likelyhood of a cop doing something wrong in a routine stop, but it also does a good job of countering unsupported allegations and partial truths.

Re:Is it that bad? (3, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808322)

Well the problem with an armature video is that you will see the parts of it the camera operator wants you to see. Like say someone goes and tries to stab a cop with a knife, cop knocks it away, guy rushes cop, cop smacks him around with baton until he stop attacking. Cop is justified here. However what if someone shoots video of this, but only shows the cop beating up the guy? You might well think it's a case of police brutality. Especially if the video was cut such that it shows the cop talking to the guy, cuts out the guy attacking the cop, and goes straight to the cop beating the guy up.

We know there are plenty of people out there that hate the cops, such a thing is not so far fetched.

So video cameras in cars are just good all around. As you noted they help reduce events of police brutality, and provide the method to go after cops that do, but they also protect the cops from false allegations. I think it's a wonderful idea, the police are public servants with a lot of power, what they do while on the job should be recorded.

Re:Is it that bad? (1)

triffid_98 (899609) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808334)

I'd think officers planning said brutality would commit it somewhere that wasn't in a line of sight with the cam? I mean, it's a video-cam, this isn't a 360 degree iMax filmography.

--
"Honey, the cast of The Shield is here..."

If anything, I'd think that video in squad cars would reduce the possibility of police brutality, since the cops know that they are being recorded on video, and an allegedly beaten person can get that video.

Re:Is it that bad? (1)

thelost (808451) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808582)

putting cameras in squad cars for the purpose of reducing police brutality admits the potential for it - this is not a statement any police force would want to make.

and ps, i doubt the the police would be willing to give up these videos unless they really had no choice - kinda similar to the recent story about a person asking for a complaint form in a florida police station and being intimidated and told to get the fuck out by the cop on duty.

Re:Is it that bad? (3, Insightful)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808660)

"Why exactly would amateur videos help create the false allegations? Are people doing a little post-production work on them before they go up online to show a closed fist hitting not once, but twice?"

No.

a.) The cameras are usually far away, so we cannot see the whole picture. If the suspect is standing behind a car, for example, a threatening gesture may not be seen.

b.) The 'ameteur' video may not have started recording to see the entire event take place. There could be an important bit of context missed.

c.) The media can grab a clip of the video and give the PD a hard time.

There's no need to go as far as 'post-production' to grab a vid used for false allegations. They say the camera never lies. That's utter bullshit. You can make a camera send any message you want. That's why the evidence collected by cameras needs verification.

Re:Is it that bad? (-1, Troll)

b0s0z0ku (752509) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808674)

c.) The media can grab a clip of the video and give the PD a hard time.

Oh, cry me a river. I feel soooo sorry for them...

-b.

bad times.... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16808158)

You think our police are bad, you should see the army

Except it's not the same (4, Insightful)

OeLeWaPpErKe (412765) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808160)

In Egypt, a muslim country, police brutality is government policy, not some idiot running out of line, like it is in the US.

And Egypt is the second most moderate muslim country there is.

Read how the police responds in a moderate muslim country :
http://forsoothsayer.blogspot.com/2006/10/mass-sex ual-assault-in-downtown-cairo.html [blogspot.com]

Read how the police responds in a reasonably muslim country :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saudi _Arabia [wikipedia.org]

Do I really need to provide a link to what happens in a really muslim country, like palestine or afghanistan or pakistan ? Do you want to see ?

Why does this happen ? Here's one opinion :
http://www.faithfreedom.org/challenge.htm [faithfreedom.org]

Re:Except it's not the same (5, Insightful)

unixbugs (654234) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808342)

You have a good point, the rest of the world is very fucked up. But that doesn't make it RIGHT. The whole argument about how bad Mogadishu is and how bad that guy get his head pounded is only solidifies a single point in the end: that here in the U.S., "good enough" is having to face this kind of thing every day anyway.

What the hell happened to progress?

Just because other countries have a shitty way of life, you are saying we should sit down and take this kind of crap because we have it "the best"?

This kind of thinking is wrong, completely and utterly retroactive (or is it proactive?) to everything that has made this country what it is today: a nation of beer swilling SUV driving ass kicking meat eating gun toting nut bags that can do whatever the hell they want. To that effect the only way to move forward is to raise the bar, not accept the norm, if you get my drift.

Re:Except it's not the same (1)

OeLeWaPpErKe (412765) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808422)

Obviously it's not. But these guys will be called to account, and will be dealt with. As is normal in the US. I'm very certain they will no longer be wearing a badge on the streets next week.

The egyptians in those videos will be killing people on the streets tomorrow, as will the palestinians, the afghans, the pakistanis, the saudi's.

Therefore these cops in the U.S. are not that big a problem, while the ones in those muslim countries are a huge problem.

Re:Except it's not the same (2, Insightful)

forgotten_my_nick (802929) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808354)

No in the US they just declare you a terrorist and then its all legal and behind closed doors.

Re:Except it's not the same (1)

OeLeWaPpErKe (412765) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808404)

Is it that hard for you to fathom ? You're spewing non-sense.

In order to get into guantanamo you have to meet 2 conditions :
1) you need to get caught fighting american troups abroad
2) in a country that is not your own

If this doesn't prove that these people are seriously fucked up, then nothing will.

Look at what they do in those countries to people who MIGHT be guilty, without trial :
http://www.nakedterror.net/galleries/thumbnails.ph p?album=7 [nakedterror.net]

These people want to do the same in the US.

Re:Except it's not the same (3, Insightful)

forgotten_my_nick (802929) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808450)

What country are you living in?

All you need is be declared an enemy combatant, in which case you loose US citizenship (if you were an American) and they can make you disappear without having to bother with a trial or ever charging you of anything. Add to that they can torture you as much as they like as long as its not life threatening.

All nice and legal. Don't believe? Do some research. There is even a lot of examples for you.

Re:Except it's not the same (1)

OeLeWaPpErKe (412765) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808636)

Okay. Show me one example.

Re:Except it's not the same (3, Informative)

timeOday (582209) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808698)

In order to get into guantanamo you have to meet 2 conditions : 1) you need to get caught fighting american troups abroad
Wrong. [democracynow.org]

Re:Except it's not the same (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16808432)

Moderate Islam. A myth?

[OT] On dangerous terminology (0)

the grace of R'hllor (530051) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808500)

The word 'muslim' does not mean what you think it means. You cannot be more muslim or less muslim, any more than you can be more jewish or less christian. You are, or are not. Also, being muslim does not influence your level of sophistication.

By equating the oppressiveness of a country with its being islamic, you're wrongfully stigmatizing the muslim faith, where you should be criticizing the regimes in those countries.

As for that site you quoted, it is the work of a deranged mind. Both asking or demanding to remove the site is the sign of psychological illness peculiar to those following the faith he opposes? Please. The fewer people like that we have on this planet, the fewer problems we'll have.

Re:[OT] On dangerous terminology (1)

OeLeWaPpErKe (412765) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808614)

If that's true, then claiming that 50.000 $ should not be hard at all. Go for it.

The fact that you claim to know more about islam than thousands of ex-muslims is very telling. Have you ever seen a koran ? Ever read some part of it ?

"9:5, But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Infidels wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem."

Infidel ? that's probably you.

Being a muslim implies that you follow this rule TO THE LETTER (ask any imam), or read online an imam's advice :

http://islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=15522 [islam.tc]

And before you say it NO the bible is NOT the same. Compare :

The structure of islamic law run :
      1. the sayings and doings of islam's paedophile mass-murdering "prophet" (koran and hadith)
      2. islamic law (including killing women on her husband's say-so, beating women, advocating rape in marriages, ...)
      3. jewish law (I'm not joking about this) including for example the ten commandments, also stoning unfaithful people (though only women, men are to pay a small amount)
      4. "inborn morality"

The structure of christian law, including to the new testament :
      1. "inborn morality" "do onto others as you would have done onto yourself"
      2. jewish law

The structure of jewish law :
      1. (in the diaspora) respect the (secular, or even ... islamic) local law and belief system (so for example, jews in america should rest on sunday and not on sabbath, unless specifically allowed in the american legal system)
      2. jewish law

So being a muslim, by definition, means you advocate killing any and all non-muslims. If you do not advocate this, you violate sharia, and, by definition, cease to be a muslim. You want to know what's scary ?

http://islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=15522 [islam.tc]

In Soviet USA, cameras watch authorities! (4, Funny)

fantomas (94850) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808192)

In Soviet USA, you watch Big Brother!

In democratic UK, Big Brother... err... wait... hang on ....

Re:In Soviet USA, cameras watch authorities! (0, Troll)

OeLeWaPpErKe (412765) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808360)

Perhaps you're feeling more into alternative forms of government that some people are trying to impose upon you ?

How about islamic government, what the terrorists are demanding ? What 87% of the british muslims are demanding ?
http://www.nakedterror.net/galleries/thumbnails.ph p?album=7 [nakedterror.net]

You like it yet ?

Re:In Soviet USA, cameras watch authorities! (1)

b0s0z0ku (752509) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808704)

Perhaps you're feeling more into alternative forms of government that some people are trying to impose upon you ?

How about islamic government, what the terrorists are demanding ? What 87% of the british muslims are demanding ?

There can be different types of bad government, though. Some homegrown and some imposed from abroad. Your statement is like telling a condemned man that he should be happy that he's being shot in the morning because he won't have to burn to death in the electric chair. In the end he's just as dead.

-b.

pretty good here (2, Insightful)

thejrwr (1024073) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808200)

We have it pretty good in the USA, you should see the other places in the world

Re:pretty good here (1)

ultraslacker (597588) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808258)

Hurray, USA is better than the third world!

Re:pretty good here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16808362)

Reading some of the comments here on slashdot, you'd think it's exactly the opposite.

Re:pretty good here (4, Informative)

omegashenron (942375) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808382)

We have it pretty good in the USA, you should see the other places in the world



Yeah... your obviously white and middle class... I recall being in Oakland and SF in 2003, the amount of homeless was disgusting. Come to think of it, I think on the TV there was a proposed plan to relocate the homeless out of public view...

Get your head out of the sand.

Re:pretty good here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16808478)

I think that would be a great idea. I can't wait until those plans go through the system.

Any time I'm in a big city, I get hassled by fucking homeless douchebags asking me for money and crap. I just want to do my own thing without having people bother me. Plus, they're dirty and smell.

There's a reason they're homeless. It's not some magical disease that afflicts people without their control. They're homeless because they made themselves that way.

Re:pretty good here (1)

OeLeWaPpErKe (412765) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808522)

Do not get your head out of the sand. Go there and do something about it. Talk is cheap. Accusing others of not talking is even cheaper.

Go down there and start an IT school. Should be doable. These people have all the time in the world, and a LOT of willpower, due to their situation. They will beat a lot of lazy slobs work in way to high places after only a few months of trained.

Maybe just buy 5 books on various subjects and give them some. "Becoming an electrician", "Starting out in auto repair", hell even that old "VB for dummies" you no doubt have lying around somewhere. That may accomplish more than you think possible. And maybe some reading books too.

Re:pretty good here (1)

thejrwr (1024073) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808700)

more like im white living on 150$ a month

Obedience now, asthma meds later (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16808232)

Stop resisting arrest and I bet he'd stop punching you in the face. Roll over and get cuffed like he wants, he's not interested in your asthma, he's worried about you pulling a concealed weapon.

not in Massachusetts (4, Interesting)

poochNik (51956) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808270)

Here in the home of Kerry and Kennedy, a couple of people tried to record their interaction with police. They were prosecuted under the state's privacy laws. And the police were full of righteous indignation about the "invasion of their privacy." As were we all ...

Re:not in Massachusetts (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16808490)

Fuckin' Kerry and Kennedy!

Re:not in Massachusetts (5, Insightful)

Daniel Dvorkin (106857) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808590)

Governments do not have rights; people do. Governments have privileges, which may be revoked by the people at any time. Never let them forget this.

A cop at home, or in civilian clothes walking down the street, has the same rights as anyone else, including the right to privacy. A cop in uniform, on duty, is acting as an arm of the State, and has temporarily surrendered many of the rights of a private citizen, privacy definitely among them.

This doesn't apply just to cops, of course; also to politicians, soldiers, and anyone else acting in a governmental capacity, whether local, state, or federal. We always have the right to know what they are doing in our name, and every time we surrender this right, whether in the name of "privacy" or "national security" or "efficiency" or any other excuse, we surrender a vital piece of our freedom.

A Measured Response to Police Brutality (3, Interesting)

Sargeant Slaughter (678631) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808294)

I've witnessed police brutality first hand before. An officer handcuffed a college kid when he tried to walk away from a speeding ticket, then the officer pushed him agaisnt the hood of the cop car (burning the kids cheek) and then pepper sprayed the kid right to the eyes (after handcuffing him and inflicting 2nd degree burns to the kids face). That was the third incident in a year for that officer and he didn't even get suspended. I was a witness in the civil case against the station, the kid's family won $150,000. I thought that was an exorbinant amount for a pinched nerve, burnt cheek, and stinging eyes but whatever.

Anyway, the video on youtube is a little brutal but I don't think either officer should be fired. Maybe a short suspension for the guy punching the perp in the face, because that is not a move that helps get the suspect into custody. We also have no idea what that guy did before the video starts. He might have just shot a little girl, spit in the cop's face, or jay walked. We have no idea what the context was, so it's hard to pass judgement. Either way, that wasn't all that brutal, at least he wasn't hitting the dude with his mag-light.

I have had a few bad experiences with the police (like the one mentioned above) and believe that it is always better not to get them involved. However, I have also had police save me from a machete weilding maniac that had me pinned in my bedroom (adn believe me, I wanted them to kick the crap outta him). They are necessary, and I think we should all try to keep open minds. Besides, I'm a rarity, a nerd who parties and gets involved with shady people. THeir probably aren't very many people on /. who have ever dealt with the police for more than a speeding ticket. I think most people who don't deal with the police very much have a negative view towards them (as brutal or power tripping or whatever) and that is messed up because you are the people the police are protecting. Sooo, support the boys in blue!

Re:A Measured Response to Police Brutality (1, Insightful)

Lord Kano (13027) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808458)

He might have just shot a little girl, spit in the cop's face, or jay walked. We have no idea what the context was, so it's hard to pass judgement.

I don't care what he did. The policed are not tasked with punishing the bad guys. He had two big cops sitting on him. He wasn't going anywhere. These cops were big guys. They could have forced his arms together long enough to get the cuffs on him.

Besides, I'm a rarity, a nerd who parties and gets involved with shady people. THeir probably aren't very many people on /. who have ever dealt with the police for more than a speeding ticket.

Fuck that. I'm a geek and I've spent time at parties with of ALL kinds of unsavory characters. From high level drug dealers to Klansmen. I've also had federal agents knocking on my door at 10:00 AM. Those guys were the ultimate professionals. They spoke to me civilly and recieved courtesy from me in return.

Local cops are usually dicks.

I think most people who don't deal with the police very much have a negative view towards them (as brutal or power tripping or whatever) and that is messed up because you are the people the police are protecting.

Who protects us from them? I'm from Pittsburgh, a local radio personality was mistreated in an encounter he had with a police officer. He went on to give the cops badge number and police department over the air. He faced all kinds of threats from police over it. They're a gang. They control their turf and retaliate against anyone who they think have wronged them.

Sooo, support the boys in blue!

I'll volunteer to console their widows when someone blows their faces off.

LK

Re:A Measured Response to Police Brutality (0, Troll)

b0s0z0ku (752509) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808620)

I'll volunteer to console their widows when someone blows their faces off.

That's a tad bit harsh, no? Especially as you don't know what kind of diseases were passed along to said widow by Mr. Blueboy...

-b.

Re:A Measured Response to Police Brutality (5, Insightful)

GNT (319794) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808566)

No. I reject your post in its entirety. I do not support jack-boot thugs regardless of their uniform. My people's delegation of authority to the police to use force is horribly misused here.

It is not ok just because he "wasn't hitting the dude with his mag-light.". He shouldn't have been hitting him in the face at all.

It is not ok because he was resisting arrest. You can hear the panic in his voice that he was being suffocated. That's why he was still struggling, rightfully so.

It is not ok because cops are specifically not allowed to put a knee to the kneck like that. If that windpipe collapsed, the coroner would have to rule "Suspected homicide secondary to blunt force trauma or compressive force."

It is not ok because you can see one cop trying to restrain the other and prevent further hits.

The punching cop should be immediately suspended without pay pending an immediate hearing for his permanent removal from the force. It should then be followed by a punitive civil suit to both the cop and the department.

We are rapidly approaching a country in which I do not care to live. I would rather live in a socialist nation with lower levels of violence from people and institutions (eg New Zealand, far Northern Europe) than here. I will have defacto more freedom.

Re:A Measured Response to Police Brutality (1)

b0s0z0ku (752509) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808586)

I was a witness in the civil case against the station, the kid's family won $150,000. I thought that was an exorbinant amount for a pinched nerve, burnt cheek, and stinging eyes but whatever.

Assuming a cop's salary is $50,000 per year and this amount was personally paid by the cop, that would be just about right. Deprivation of half of his salary for 6 years. If nothing else teaches the cop a lesson, I'm sure that hitting it in the pocket will.

-b.

To paraphrase the late, great Bill Hicks.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16808420)

it's all in how you look at it. If you watch the video in reverse it looks like the officers are helping him up.

Wow, so late? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16808424)

This was in the Norwegian news several days ago. I immediatly logged on Slashdot to check for more info here when I saw it, but was disappointed not to find any. As the event happened in August though, I figured slashdot had news on it weeks ago, if not more.

Apparently, I was wrong.

Wow, that's really slow.

There are three kinds of cops in the world (4, Interesting)

bberens (965711) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808442)

1) Cops who are corrupt
2) Cops who are not corrupt, but ignore the corruption of others
3) Cops too stupid to know what's going on around them

I know plenty of cops that fit into varying categories above. Personally, I don't give a shit if some guy dealing drugs to kids (note to kids) or some guy abusing his wife gets an extra knock to the skull. At the same time, cops are typically dicks to people for no reason. They spend 90% of their time raising taxes (writing tickets) or playing cleanup after some dumbass.

Re:There are three kinds of cops in the world (1)

fredklein (532096) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808556)

You forgot:

4) Serpico. He testified against the corrupt cops, and then was left to die when shot during a drug bust. His Fellow Officers refused to call for assistance.

But other than that, you got all the possible types of cops:

1) Criminal cops
2) Cops who know about criminal cops, but do nothing. (They are just as bad, morally.)
3) Cops so stupid/naive that they don't know about type 1 and 2 cops. (Who wants cops THAT dumb on the force??)
4) Cops who are honest (and get left for dead like Serpico).

Where's the context? (4, Insightful)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808444)

Some points...

1: The guy clearly was breathing. It can be seen and heard.
2: Scum will lie through their teeth in order to gain an advantage. You can't believe a word they utter. e.g. "Got the time mate", "Excuse me miss I'm lost could you help", "Do what I say and you won't get hurt".
3: Where's the rest of the video? Why was it cut off? Could it be that the suspect wouldn't be seen in quite the same light? Not an innocent victim but a violent attacker?

I'm not a big fan of the police but this is a bullshit video. It's propaganda designed to manipulate me. Show me the whole video and let me make my own decision.

 

Resisting Arrest Is A Crime In This Country (1)

x-guru (653854) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808468)

In My Humble Opinion:

1. It was obvious to me that the guy was resisting arrest. It was clearly obvious to me, even in that short clip, that the officers were trying to control the man's hands so they could cuff him, and he was struggling against being cuffed.

2. It was obvious to me that the video was edited to only show the officers actions, and not those of the person being arrested. This furthers the cause of Cop Watch LA through the use of a dramatic impression on the watcher's emotions, but not on a substantive argument of right versus wrong.
In other words, if the guy did not deserve to be punched, they would have shown everything that happened for five minutes before and five minutes after he was punched in order to emphasize his innocence. On the other-hand, if the guy reasonably deserved to be hit, they would edit out whatever he did to deserve it in order to make the cops look all the worse.

Did I really need to say all this? Is that not obvious to everyone else?

Re:Resisting Arrest Is A Crime In This Country (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808654)

It isn't real clear to me that punching the guy in the face is a good remedy to his resisting arrest, and I don't feel bad that the FBI decided to look into it. I'm not sure I want a justice system where someone the police are trying to arrest 'deserves' to be punched in the face.

If it the same video as one I saw elsewhere, yeah, the guy was resisting and would have saved himself some trouble if he went slack.

Re:Resisting Arrest Is A Crime In This Country (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16808682)

A guy's being a little difficult, so he gets punched in the face? By someone who can get away with it? Or is it because he's "committing a crime," as you so callously put it? And unless the arrestee punched (or worse) the officer himself in the face, there's absolutely no call.
Do I really have to spell it out for you? The. cop. was. in. the. wrong. Get over it, and leave Cop Watch out of it.

Re:Resisting Arrest Is A Crime In This Country (5, Insightful)

kakofb (725561) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808688)

I think that that's completely irrelevant. I don't care if the person being arrested had just burnt a little girl to death, shot a police officer and resisted arrest with any kinds of weapons blaring.

It's simply not up to police to deal out punishment in a way they think fit. It is their place to detain the person in question, using the absolute minimum amount of force necessary to get them tied up and in a car and off to proper judgement.

A skill a good police officer needs to have is the ability to stay clear and focused and not absolutely batshit crazy no matter what the situation. It's the kind of people they are arresting who aren't able to do this and kill their step-child when they realise the child is not theirs.

Obviously the person in the video probably didn't commit the aforementioned crimes but even if they had the way the police officers behaved was completely unreasonable.

People just want something to cry foul over (1)

not already in use (972294) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808480)

The guy was resisting arrest. He would not let them handcuff him. They may have already pepper sprayed him, but we don't know because we don't see the entire incident. You're not gonna be gentle and polite to someone who could potentially hurt you. This is nothing like the Rodney King incident, where you see him getting pulled out of the vehicle and beaten. I can't believe this garbage is gathering so much attention. All we need are violent criminals getting away or cops getting killed because they are scared of someone portraying them as brutal when they are trying to do a very difficult and dangerous job.

Anyone have a link to the ENTIRE video? (1)

rob1980 (941751) | more than 7 years ago | (#16808520)

How am I supposed to determine anything with 30 seconds of footage? Why am I only being shown what somebody else wants me to see?

Its the News, Stupid. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16808702)

You only get to see what somebody else wants you to see because you were not there. Just like -ahem- Katrina.

News is not -sold- for facts.. its sold for entertainment.

Complain! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16808690)

He should promptly ask the police for a complaint form (and pen).
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