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Don't Forget the First Xbox

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the all-hail-duke-duke-is-life dept.

XBox (Games) 99

Eurogamer wants to remind us that, before Microsoft's next-gen console, they had this large black box which was sold in stores. A few games were even made for it. They've come up with two lists, one detailing the twelve finest exclusives to grace the system and another to highlight poorly-selling but highly-entertaining 'cult classics' you may have missed the first time around. From the 'best of' list: "Halo made the Xbox - without it, Microsoft would have had a much tougher struggle in the console market, and it's really telling that five years on, almost everyone would still rate the first game as one of its top titles. Unsurprisingly, Halo spawned countless imitators, and the market is awash with the corpses of space-marine-shoots-aliens games which simply didn't resonate with the gaming audience in the same way. The reason is clear; Halo wasn't just a success because people want to be a space marine and shoot aliens. The game was the complete package; it had stirring narrative, great characters, epic, sweeping scale, and absolutely fantastic, haunting music. It may not have brought much to the table in terms of gameplay innovation, and many PC FPS fans turned their noses up at it for that reason - but the production values and the understanding of how to create an involving, cinematic experience which Bungie brought to bear were unmatched."

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huh? (2, Funny)

chowdy (992689) | more than 7 years ago | (#16877844)

Don't forget the X-what?

Poland! (5, Funny)

otis wildflower (4889) | more than 7 years ago | (#16877894)

Don't forget Poland either!

Re:Poland! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16877942)

mod parent up, funny as hell

Re:Poland! (1)

JordanL (886154) | more than 7 years ago | (#16878680)

Why shouldn't we forget about the XBox... Microsoft did...

Oh SNAP!

They're right on the cult classics (2, Interesting)

fatty ding dong (1028344) | more than 7 years ago | (#16877968)

For many of those games, it seemed there was no hype, or the hype was amazing, only to be overshadowed a day or two after release. Its strange to think I may never have played Kingdom Under Fire if my father's friend hadn't done voices for it. It was such a great game and would have passed right under my radar if I hadn't been told about. I wonder how many games have passed under the collective radar like that over the last couple decades?

Re:They're right on the cult classics (1)

PorkNutz (730601) | more than 7 years ago | (#16879058)

42

Re:They're right on the cult classics (1)

Deltaspectre (796409) | more than 7 years ago | (#16882822)

Phew, that was obviously the wrong answer or the universe would have ceased to exist and would have been replaced with something even weirder.

Re:They're right on the cult classics (1)

Drooling Iguana (61479) | more than 7 years ago | (#16888664)

Maybe it has, and 42 was actually the Answer to the Ultimate Question in the previous one.

Wii (2, Insightful)

trisweb (690296) | more than 7 years ago | (#16877982)

Someone has to say it, so I might as well... Nintendo isn't forgetting the NES/SNES/N64/Gamecube when releasing their next-gen, they're embracing them all. Somehow I think that's a better business strategy, for the very reason this article points out-- there were some great games for older consoles! Fun > Graphics.

Re:Wii (1)

carterhawk001 (681941) | more than 7 years ago | (#16878758)

Its not because the games were better, its because Nintendo finaly relised they were losing out on making money from the Emulator crowd.

Re:Wii (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16879166)

Instead, Nintendo is forgetting those who purchased NES/SNES/N64 games. It's more profitable to make them buy the old games again. This time with a fresh coat of DRM, too.

Huh (5, Insightful)

HappySqurriel (1010623) | more than 7 years ago | (#16877992)

Halo spawned countless imitators, and the market is awash with the corpses of space-marine-shoots-aliens games which simply didn't resonate with the gaming audience in the same way.

Wait, Halo didn't create the first marine-shoots-aliens games they have existed for a very long time; you could argue that Halo was mostly a rip-off of the delivery method produced by Half-life (1998) and similar content and style of Doom (1994) [replace Demons with Aliens]. All Halo did was introduce console gamers to the modern (story based) PC first person shooter; at the time most of the First Person shooters released to consoles were still level based (think of Goldeneye/Perfect Dark).

Re:Huh (1)

brkello (642429) | more than 7 years ago | (#16878560)

While I agree with what you are saying, I don't think that is the point the author is making. They are simply saying that Halo did very well on the Xbox. Due to this success, it spawned many other games that tried to follow the same formula (again, on the Xbox). It isn't saying it invented the marine-shoots-alien games. It's saying other companies tried to copy its formula by using the same format...and that those games failed.

Re:Huh (1)

otis wildflower (4889) | more than 7 years ago | (#16878572)

Don't forget Alien vs. Predator for Atari Jaguar.. Halo 2 "stole" the idea of letting you play either the "good guy" or the "bad guy" (or the other "bad guy", and storywise it was pretty evenhanded actually).. Also, AvP was the first game that had me looking over my shoulder, flipbook-framerate and all..

And IMHO Halo 2 should have also stolen more of the gameplay mechanic, such as the species-specific bonuses and penalties.

But that's just being a pedantic geek I suppose..

Re:Huh (3, Informative)

ectal (949842) | more than 7 years ago | (#16878782)

Um. Halo has more to do with the 1994 title Marathon ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon_(computer_ga me) [wikipedia.org] ) than with Doom. And at the time Marathon came out, there was no FPS out with a story that came anywhere near Marathon's. And who made Marathon? Bungie.

Halo is, in spirit, just a re-working of this earlier title. I'd actually say Marathon had the better storyline. But Halo definitely wins the gameplay prize.

Re:Huh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16881766)

Wrong! An FPS with a story at least as strong predates Marathon.

Admittedly, that FPS is Pathways into Darkness, which was also made by Bungie. Regardless, Marathon wasn't alone.

Re:Huh (1)

ectal (949842) | more than 7 years ago | (#16882212)

Oh, good point.

I never got very far along in Pathways. Just didn't hook me in the same way Marathon did. But definitely another great game.

It's sad. I think a lot of people ignore the impact Bungie had on the establishment of the FPS genre, simply because they primarily made Mac games back in the day and so were off the radar of most gamers.

Re:Huh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16883476)

Yes, but Pathways into Darkness was--to put it nicely--wasn't terribly entertaining as a game.
Marathon was absolutely captivating, though, and it was truly a sad day for Mac gamers when they sold out to Microsoft.

Re:Huh (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#16886196)

It was a sad day for all gamers when they sold out to Microsoft. I can't be the only one who believes that Halo would have been much better on the PC if it weren't for M$' influence.

Re:Huh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16885074)

Halo spawned countless imitators

That doesn't mean that the writer is saying that Halo was original, just that many games tried to imitate it. Which could also be disputed, but I think it goes without saying that any game maker is going to look at the competition before they come out with a game in that genre and try and best it. Yes, Halo was similar to earlier PC FPSs both in style and theme, one could also say that Halo imitated those games, but then people imitated Halo and so on. You are right though, there is an implication of originality in a statement like that that struck me as out of place.

One mans meat is another mans poison (1)

thelonestranger (915343) | more than 7 years ago | (#16877994)

Enclave? An overlooked classic? Give me a break, the reason this failed was because it was an unmitigated steaming pile of crap.

Re:One mans meat is another mans poison (1)

AcidLacedPenguiN (835552) | more than 7 years ago | (#16884906)

Hey I liked it. . . Though I think they should have just called it "Find the money sacs"

Psychonauts (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16878004)

Hopefully, one day, Psychonauts will get the recognition it deserves. It's one of the most entertaining games I've ever played.

Re:Psychonauts (1)

amuro98 (461673) | more than 7 years ago | (#16878058)

I agree. Psychonauts was a very good game.

But it wasn't an exclusive title, so it didn't make this list.

Re:Psychonauts (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16878116)

I was actually focusing on the second article: "Bluffers Guide to Xbox Cult Classics".

Of course, top of a great-games-nobody-played list is better than nothing, but it's still well shy of what it deserved.

Re:Psychonauts (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16879216)

It's recently been released on steam, hopefuly that'll bring it some more much deserved sales.
All those people 'round here that are praising the wii for making games fun again should bow their heads in shame if they don't own this game. Ok so it wasn't particularly innovative in terms of gameplay but it has a great story, humor and anything else you'd want from a game.

Re:Psychonauts (1)

Psiven (302490) | more than 7 years ago | (#16879594)

Psychonauts is getting released on Steam, so that seams like some good recognition.

Re:Psychonauts (1)

Salmar (991564) | more than 7 years ago | (#16879696)

I've been wanting to play that game for months! Once I get time, I'll get it from Steam.

Notice what I just said. It's available from Steam, one of the most profitable game networks ever. If it's a good game, it will show.

finally, someone gets it right (1)

theStorminMormon (883615) | more than 7 years ago | (#16878006)

I'm shocked to hear such a well-reasoned, articulate explanation of why Halo is such a great game. It makes my heart warm. Yeah, I'm a Halo fanboi, but it's because of the artistic vision of Bungie. They're one of the few game companies that I feel really elevate gaming to an art.

Of course, Halo multiplayer is a different beast altogether...

In any case, it's their legacy of refined story/music/narrative/character that make me hopeful for the eventual movie. That, and I Love Bees (ilovebees.com).

-stormin

Console Market (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16878022)

the Xbox - without it, Microsoft would have had a much tougher struggle in the console market

Well duh. Without it they wouldn't have *been* in teh console market!

Re:Console Market (1)

darkwhite (139802) | more than 7 years ago | (#16878836)

You fail reading comprehension.

Re:Console Market (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16884634)

You fail reading comprehension.

I went out of my way to selectively quote, but as far as the two mods (as of this writing) who modded it insightful, well, I gotta agree with you....

Halo had deep production values? (-1, Troll)

EvilCabbage (589836) | more than 7 years ago | (#16878030)

Oh, bullshit. Running across the same vague field, then hiding behind the same damn rocks until you get into an alien space ship and spend the rest of the game running around identical corridors.

I love my Xbox, but I truly despise Halo. Ordinary on so many levels, but obviously appeals on the lowest common denominator factor. Aliens, shooting shit, and packed in with a bunch of systems.

Hell, I can't even give my copy away, came free with the box and it's like cancer, just can't shake it.

Re:Halo had deep production values? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#16886266)

You can mail it to me... maybe someday I'll get a smartjoy frag.

LOAD OF CRAP (-1, Troll)

static0verdrive (776495) | more than 7 years ago | (#16878076)

I hated Halo. While it may have a "large following" (re: bunch of know-no-better kids), I wouldn't go so far as to say it had "great characters". It had a bunch of faceless space marines, and the alien enemies were Lame. Lame with a capital L... they weren't scary, or even a little frightening. The sounds the most common little carebear one would make did NOT make me want to shoot it. I thought there was some sort of space marine vs impending alien DOOM as far back as.. what, 92-ish? I think it even had blood, gore, violence, and a scary aspect (if I remember correctly). While I admit Halo's 2 player while-on-the-warthog was fun for 5 minutes, it irks me every time I hear about how M$ tapped a previously unforrayed market with this rehashed garbage.

PILE OF CRAP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16878230)

Re: "rehashed garbage"
So, are you saying that every game after Wolfenstien 3D (or whatever the first FPS was) is crap?

Re:LOAD OF CRAP (4, Insightful)

brkello (642429) | more than 7 years ago | (#16878590)

Just because you didn't like the game, doesn't mean everyone who did were a bunch of "know-no-better kids". It is beyond me how intolerant garbage like your post gets modded up.

On the other hand, it doesn't surprise me that much. There are just too many people on here that feel the only way to be cool is to trash the things other people like. By saying something that is popular is uncool, suddenly you feel special and more knowledgable on gaming. Get over yourselves. People like different things. By all means, talk about its lack of innovation, the fact that there are better games out there, that there are better FPS's out there. That can spawn healthy and interesting debate. But just belittling people that like something you don't? Come on, try to act civilized.

Re:LOAD OF CRAP (5, Insightful)

PaganRitual (551879) | more than 7 years ago | (#16879488)

To be perfectly honest (and to unavoidably be marked as a troll no doubt) I think it's primarily a by-product of the fact that people constantly creaming themselves over Halo grates after a while. It's not just 'I like Halo' posts, it's where people really go above and beyond normal fanboyism to reach new hights of irritation and bullshit.

Stuff like this is exactly what I'm talking about, it's almost embarassing to read. It's only a few posts about this one.

http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=207010&c id=16878006 [slashdot.org]

They're one of the few game companies that I feel really elevate gaming to an art.

Holy shit. I mean, I can literally picture this guy reaching for the tissues. Whether it's because the game has brought him to tears or to orgasm is an exercise left to the reader. I try not to think about it too much.

It's basically just a generic, actually quite poorly done shooter that was only successful because it came out on console, where people had rarely seen FPS, deathmatch, or the magic of Co-OP FPS. No one (well, maybe the parent of your post) is arguing that people aren't allowed to like it, it's just that watching something so ordinary get 9s and 10s across the board when most of that score is clearly for co-op/DM (which makes almost any FPS better) and having to listen to a constant stream of retarded fanboy bullshit can get tiring to the point where you lose all sense and feel like you should respond.

I mean, to judge console FPS by the criteria that Halo is praised - graphics, story, AI (lol, seriously guys, Halo has no AI, come on, there could be a full post written on the rose colored glasses the fanboys wear when discussing this), gunplay ... right about ... now F.E.A.R. should be destroying Halo and taking it's rightful place and king of the console shooters. But it's not going to happen, because while F.E.A.R. is a better game in every way, Halo is loved for it's DM/Co-OP more than the game itself.

And while nothing is inherently wrong with that, can people just shut the fuck up about Halo already.

You like it.

We get it.

It's really not as good as you think. And most people are so fucking tired of hearing it.

Re:LOAD OF CRAP (1)

Psiven (302490) | more than 7 years ago | (#16879646)

I bet you feel a lot better now.

Re:LOAD OF CRAP (0)

Isthisagametou (960974) | more than 7 years ago | (#16879686)

Don't know about him, but I sure do.

Re:LOAD OF CRAP (1)

PaganRitual (551879) | more than 7 years ago | (#16879752)

Not quite yet, the Paypal transfer from Monolith hasn't arrived.

Re:LOAD OF CRAP (1)

Osty (16825) | more than 7 years ago | (#16880170)

I mean, to judge console FPS by the criteria that Halo is praised - graphics, story, AI (lol, seriously guys, Halo has no AI, come on, there could be a full post written on the rose colored glasses the fanboys wear when discussing this), gunplay ... right about ... now F.E.A.R. should be destroying Halo and taking it's rightful place and king of the console shooters. But it's not going to happen, because while F.E.A.R. is a better game in every way, Halo is loved for it's DM/Co-OP more than the game itself.

Having played the FEAR demo on Xbox 360, I found the controls horribly bad. This is a common theme for games ported to consoles from the PC, where the game was designed around mouse/kb controls and no real effort was made to tweak the game to work well on a console beyond a bit of auto-aim. That's where Halo really shines -- from the ground up, it was built as an FPS for the console (well, after Bungie scrapped the idea of doing it as an RTS, and then as a third-person shooter, and then got purchased by Microsoft. But they had a good year or so to redefine the controls and gameplay balance of the game for the console after the Microsoft purchase). The controls are tight and responsive and while it does do auto-aim it's also quite possible to consistently headshot enemies without having to rely on the auto-aim. As a counter-example, look at Unreal Championship on the Xbox. It was essentially the exact same game as Unreal Tournament 2003 on the PC, and it suffered for that in the control department. Most anti-Halo (or really, anti-console FPS) fanboys trot out the "no kb/mouse support" argument without ever taking the time to stop and consider that a console FPS has different design criteria than a PC FPS, in terms of control and balance.

As for the AI issue, Halo 2 really did have quite good AI, for a FPS game. Sure, most encounters were based on triggers, but once the trigger fired the AI takes over. Go play a scenario in Halo 2 and you'll find that the bad guys don't always do the same things over and over again. If you hide, they flank you. If you charge right in they'll back up and take cover. If you focus on one enemey and ignore the others, they'll team up and take you out. Now go play some Gears of War, a game that's being lauded for its AI almost as much as its graphics. You'll quickly find that its AI is terribly scripted. It gets to the point that you know that an enemy will pop his head out right "here" every time. You can flank a set of enemies and they won't even turn around until you've chainsawed them to death. It's a fun game but not an example of brilliant AI. It's quite possible that there are games with better enemy AI than Halo 2 ("real" AI, not simply scripted bits to make it look "smart"), but I'd be hard-pressed to name one off the top of my head. Then again, I'm not a PC gamer when it comes to FPS. I'd rather play Civ IV or GalCiv 2 on my PC than Half-Life 2 or F.E.A.R.

Re:LOAD OF CRAP (1)

PaganRitual (551879) | more than 7 years ago | (#16880716)

Thats a shame because F.E.A.R. is a great game, but I was saying it should remove Halo from it's undeserved throne without actually ever trying the console version. I just presumed it was as enjoyable to play as the PC version. What I find amazing is that Timesplitters Future Perfect never got a look in as a superior console FPS. That is a great game. I wish there was a way to remove the totally retarded aiming style from TS2 because I feel that would be an even better game without that moronic aiming. I don't know why it never bothered me much in Goldeneye, but I couldn't play much further than the helicopter in TS2 before just going crazy and returning it to the video store.

The issues you mention sound very much like Far Cry on console as well. New areas actions etc but it still felt like you were trying to console a mouse/kb driven game with a console controller. Awkward ...

Ports also work exactly the same in reverse when they go to PC. Massive reticules, auto-aiming and/or mouse smoothing that you can't turn off, the feeling that you're playing with your face pressed against the screen. Also the other thing I find that console FPS seem to totally lack the ability to make it actually feel like you're shooting something.

Project Snowblind is the best example that instantly comes to mind of all this. IIRC the PC version had no way of turning off the auto-aim, and successfully managed to incorpate all the above complaints. The final straw was after an hour or so of play the feeling that I was shooting mannequins got too much and I uninstalled it.

Condemned is a great console FPS as well, even if it is in a different style. The aiming acceleration is stupid but tolerable. I ended up getting it on PC anyway but regardless it was great, and a perfect way of how to actually do a console->PC FPS port. Except for the whole bit about leaving talk of the achievements in there.

Oh yeah, and if you want good AI, there F.E.A.R. is where you want to be. I never really bothered enough with Halo 2 to see if the A.I. was any improved over the non-existant first version. I played as far as becoming a bad guy and that was enough for me.

Re:LOAD OF CRAP (1)

Osty (16825) | more than 7 years ago | (#16881044)

Thats a shame because F.E.A.R. is a great game, but I was saying it should remove Halo from it's undeserved throne without actually ever trying the console version. I just presumed it was as enjoyable to play as the PC version. What I find amazing is that Timesplitters Future Perfect never got a look in as a superior console FPS. That is a great game. I wish there was a way to remove the totally retarded aiming style from TS2 because I feel that would be an even better game without that moronic aiming. I don't know why it never bothered me much in Goldeneye, but I couldn't play much further than the helicopter in TS2 before just going crazy and returning it to the video store.

Too bad my rig is nowhere near powerful enough to handle F.E.A.R. Otherwise I'd give it a try. As for TS3, I'm pretty sure it got overlooked thanks to the craptastic aiming of TS2. I know that's why I didn't bother, though I had a friend who kept raving about it. Maybe someday I'll go back and play it ... (yeah, right, "someday" just never seems to come along).

Oh yeah, and if you want good AI, there F.E.A.R. is where you want to be. I never really bothered enough with Halo 2 to see if the A.I. was any improved over the non-existant first version. I played as far as becoming a bad guy and that was enough for me.

The thing about Halo's AI is that it only becomes obvious how good it can be when you play on higher difficulty levels. At lower difficulty levels, the enemies are dumbed down to make them easier, and there are fewer of them which makes their squad tactics less-obvious (grunts getting scared and running to hide behind elites, elites pinning you down with covering fire and flanking your position, etc).

Re:LOAD OF CRAP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16891362)

I play F.E.A.R. on a four-and-a-half-year-old laptop. Granted it was a pretty high-end laptop in its day, but still, you don't need a monster rig to play and enjoy F.E.A.R.. You may not get the shadow effects and that kind of thing (and they help set the mood, don't get me wrong), but it's still solid on older hardware.

Re:LOAD OF CRAP (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16881136)

It makes me laugh everytime Halo is mentioned, people feel the need to rush in and explain how much it sucks. Every fucking time on fucking thread on every fucking board.

You can't play a FPS with a pad!
Tribes did vehicles first!
Half life had a better story!
Quake had multiplayer!
They repeated some levels!
It's the FPS for noobs! (Despite the fact that plenty of PC FPS players including myself rate it higher than all but one or two PC FPS's.

Defensive much? Why? I mean really why do these idiots have a drive to slag off a 2001 game 5 years later? Is it because it was on Xbox?

Yawn. We get it, you don't like Halo. Why do you feel the need to comment on it? I can't think of any other 5 year old games that provoke the same frothing reaction.

Re:LOAD OF CRAP (1)

Bent Mind (853241) | more than 7 years ago | (#16881336)

It's basically just a generic, actually quite poorly done shooter that was only successful because it came out on console

I never played it on the console. However, I enjoyed the story. As for it being a great FPS, First Person Shooters are all the same. You get a picture of a gun that points at things and you shoot. Not much has changed since Doom.

Re:LOAD OF CRAP (1)

IKnwThePiecesFt (693955) | more than 7 years ago | (#16881512)

You know I've been playing PC shooters for quite a while (Marathon way back when, Half-Life when it launched, Counter-Strike Beta 4 etc) and I still think Halo had some of the best deathmatch and CTF I've played. Also, the co-op is really unmatched these days (Gears of War is the only other shooter I can think of in recent history with built in coop). Sure it's not the end all be all of shooters, but it's a lot of fun. Of course I must have no taste since PC shooters are obviously better in these areas, right?

Re:LOAD OF CRAP (3, Insightful)

p0tat03 (985078) | more than 7 years ago | (#16881776)

The popularity or acclaim of Halo isn't really because it's terribly revolutionary, because it's not. It is famous and celebrated because it is the first example of a console FPS *done right*. For that Bungie has to get a huge kudos from everyone. Console FPSes before Halo were extremely poor - even lauded games like Goldeneye were impossible to really control. Halo didn't innovate much, but it sure as hell nailed the execution.

Though they DID invent the "recharging health meter" thing that's oh-so-popular with console FPSes these days. I like it. It takes the medpack-hunting angle out of the game, and doesn't punish players for taking a *wee* bit much damage in the last encounter, and having little chance to survive the next one. It forces players to be smart and pick their fights without making it into a strict numbers game.

Oh, and need I remind you that despite the fact that Bungie didn't invent co-op, it was one of the VERY VERY few co-op FPSes of its day, consoles or otherwise. Hell, there really hasn't been a single good co-op shooter on consoles *or* PCs until Gears of War just now. They brought gamers' attentions back to co-op, and that deserves props.

Re:LOAD OF CRAP (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#16886304)

Hell, there really hasn't been a single good co-op shooter on consoles *or* PCs until Gears of War just now.

I take it you mean "since halo" or perhaps "since quake".

Re:LOAD OF CRAP (1)

mister_slim (537501) | more than 7 years ago | (#16895444)

Have you ever played Goldeneye with dual analog sticks? It works very well, though it does make the game a little too easy.

Re:LOAD OF CRAP (2, Insightful)

mattgreen (701203) | more than 7 years ago | (#16882758)

Kind of like how everyone knows by now that people irrationally hate Microsoft, yet it continues to get modded up.

Re:LOAD OF CRAP (1)

brkello (642429) | more than 7 years ago | (#16886810)

Honestly, I didn't think Halo was anything horribly special myself. Just when I see this attitude on here it really ticks me off. It wouldn't have bothered me other than the fact that people modded that garbage up. I can relate to getting sick of fanboys. The Nintendo fanboys on Slashdot drive me absolutely nuts. But I don't tear in to them for liking Nintendo (heck, I love Nintendo, just hate the fanboys). So I can understand being frustrated...but still, that doesn't make that acceptable behavior nor worthy of being modded up.

Re:LOAD OF CRAP (1)

Psiven (302490) | more than 7 years ago | (#16962292)

I'm a fangirl you insensitive clod!

Re:LOAD OF CRAP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16879492)

Oh, did it get its feeling hurt on the internet? for shame.
He made one comment about the players and then you apperently glossed over the rest of the post where he does exactly what you complain he should do; point out that their are better fps' and that halo wasn't very innovative. Stop acting like someone punched you in the puss

Re:LOAD OF CRAP (1)

arodland (127775) | more than 7 years ago | (#16879780)

If tell me that it's perfectly okay to say that a game is uninnovative, boring, and all-around sucky, but that it's not okay for me to say that you must be an unimaginative, boring, sucky person to play such a game, then you're the one being intolerant. The idea that people are exempt from the kind of value judgements that get you through every other part of life is dangerous bullshit.

That said, you have to be a really stupid person to take slashdot seriously ;)

Re:LOAD OF CRAP (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16878654)

The best thing about Halo for me, and many others. Halo has done coop better then ANY other FPS EVER.

Re:LOAD OF CRAP (1)

MeanMF (631837) | more than 7 years ago | (#16879678)

While not strictly an FPS, Gears of War has a pretty damn sweet co-op mode.

Re:LOAD OF CRAP (1)

evgen88 (800150) | more than 7 years ago | (#16881652)

I have to agree with thinking Halo isn't anything special.
The only thing I see it had was Vehicles, but Shadow Warrior had that years earlier in a much more interesting game. Unreal was also a much better game, I would forgo the vehicles in Halo for the variety in Unreal in a second. Then again, I don't think there has been a FPS to top Duke Nukem made yet, maybe that's what 3d Realms is waiting for, a product to top other than their own.
I can't believe in the average FPS now you can't interact with the world other than shooting stuff or running into giant buttons. Not to mention you can't use your arms to climb onto things you can't outright jump on to.
Halo didn't have interesting characters, Master Chief, boring, he was as blank as his visor. I could count the number of enemy types in the game with my fingers and toes, and no I don't have an unusual number of those extremities.
I played through that game the way I watch a bad movie late at night, dreading that it won't be worth it but wanting to see how it ends.

So what if you don't like driving games or KOTOR? (1)

amuro98 (461673) | more than 7 years ago | (#16878132)

5 of games on their list are racing games. I hate racing games - control pads don't make good steering wheels.

I found it odd they put KOTOR 2 on the list but not Jade Kingdom.

Granted, Jade Kingdom felt like KOTOR in a fakey "asian" skin, but it was unique in that there just aren't many martial-arts RPGs out there.

Furthermore, from what I've read about KOTOR2, it was released buggy and incomplete.

Re:So what if you don't like driving games or KOTO (1)

Babbster (107076) | more than 7 years ago | (#16879072)

It's Jade Empire and I would agree that it doesn't get enough props. It's fun, well-produced, "linear-plus" RPG action. And, unlike the two KOTOR games I can't remember any showstopping bugs.

KOTOR2 was good until you reached the endgame but then just fell apart. Had they given the game another 2 months of work, it might have ended up legendary, but everyone was anxious to cash in on the sequel (and they surely did).

Re:So what if you don't like driving games or KOTO (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16880034)

It is Jade Empire

Re:So what if you don't like driving games or KOTO (1)

Azih (1027674) | more than 7 years ago | (#16883226)

That's Jade Empire, not Jade Kingdom. Nitpick aside Jade Empire was not a very good game, However KOTOR 2 was horrifically buggy and unfinished game. They're both not worthy of the list.

Bungie was a Mac developer... (1)

jmordoj (256283) | more than 7 years ago | (#16878158)

Don't forget halo was game develop for the Mac, (at that time Bungie was one of the biggest developer of games for the Mac, I remember Marathon as one of the best person shooters I have ever played and that was in 1995, and Myth as excellent game too).

And I think this is true even for today, a majority of the best applications I ever used were created for then Macintosh and then ported/acquired to run on Windows (like Photoshop, freehand, myst)

I think Microsoft knew they needed a killer app and bought bungie, but left the Mac without one of the biggest developer it had, and is a shame, because now a game for a Mac its the last priority in bungie's list

Re:Bungie was a Mac developer... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16886678)

I think Microsoft knew they needed a killer app and bought bungie, but left the Mac without [the] one developer it had


There, fixed your statement

Already being forgotten? (1)

asc99c (938635) | more than 7 years ago | (#16878242)

I'm quite amazed by the short lifespan of the original Xbox - we're already talking about forgetting it? Sales are down to a few thousand units a month, 5 years after launch and only a year after the 360 came out! (Sales Stats) [pcvsconsole.com]

Production of the PSOne was only halted March this year, 11 years after the playstation launch, and 6 years after the launch of PS2. I get the feeling PS2 will continue long after the launch of PS3 also. As the PS3 has PS2 on a chip inside it, I'd guess we'll be soon seeing another further slimmed down and cut price PS2 released.

Re:Already being forgotten? (1)

Detritus (11846) | more than 7 years ago | (#16879602)

They are hard to find. I recently bought one to replace a broken xbox. I don't have a HDTV and didn't want to pay a lot of money for a semi-compatible xbox 360. They started disappearing shortly after the introduction of the xbox 360. I figured that Microsoft was eager to kill it, considering that they lose money on each one they sell.

Re:Already being forgotten? (2, Insightful)

bym051d (980242) | more than 7 years ago | (#16879676)

The way Microsoft kicked the XBOX to the curb as quickly as possible after the 360 was released after such as short lifespan is a disservice to their customers. Some of the best PS2 games are coming out as or after the PS3 is released. The PS2 was released a year before the XBOX and has lasted a least a year past. Sure, it keeps the fanbois and enthusiasts happy, but they don't win the console wars.

Re:Already being forgotten? (2, Informative)

Osty (16825) | more than 7 years ago | (#16880072)

As the PS3 has PS2 on a chip inside it, I'd guess we'll be soon seeing another further slimmed down and cut price PS2 released.

You've got it backwards. The PS2-on-a-chip in the PS3 is not a further miniaturization of the PS2 beyond the slimline PSTwo. It is the PSTwo (or close enough). So, no, you probably won't be seeing an even smaller PSTwo. It's the same thing Sony did with the PSOne. That was released prior to the PS2 from the effort needed to miniaturize the PS1 to a single chip for backwards compatibility. There was never an even-smaller PSOne.

Re:Already being forgotten? (1)

donaldm (919619) | more than 7 years ago | (#16881108)

In Sydney Australia I have rarely seen an Xbox or even Gamecube in most of the stores I have been into lately. Due to this I think the most purchased console this Christmas will probably be the PS2 because it is still well supported and and has thousands of games. Buying a small TV, a PS2 console plus a few games will hardly break the bank. I don't think you will see a smaller PS2 though it would not be cost effective for Sony to do this and in many ways rather pointless.

Even though many will say the Wii is cheap, parents who are looking at buying a game machine for their kids room will see the price and the cost of new games (similar to the Xbox360 and PS3) can run up a considerable amount of money especially if you want a decent TV for the kids room as well. Of course if the parent is an avid console gamer and has the money then they will get the game machine they want and if that means waiting till after Christmas then so be it.

As for Microsoft pushing the Xbox360 over the Xbox you have to remember that the Xbox was a massive loss (about 3 to 4 billion dollars) for them so they are quite happy to forget about it. If I had purchased an Xbox recently I would be really pissed and would be highly suspicious of the life of the Xbox360. Like it or not at least Sony and Nintendo do provide longer term support for their consoles.

Deathrow (1)

ESOB (980346) | more than 7 years ago | (#16878522)

A great game that got overlooked by almost everyone was a game called Deathrow. It featured the most intense frisbee game on any console. It was half free fighting game, half sports game and wasted a good amount of my time. It got great reviews but I guess since it had lots of course language (the characters would curse at each other during the matches), and not much advertising it didn't do well. Still one of my favorite xbox games.

Re:Deathrow (1)

PaganRitual (551879) | more than 7 years ago | (#16879162)

It's also, in true Halo style, not overly entertaining in single player while (at least in Deathrow's case) being a complete blast in multi. In SP mode the teams get ridiculously hard later on, and IIRC it was the robot team in an optional match that appeared to be virtually unbeatable. I can't deny though, it was a fun game, and I very much regret ebaying my copy back when I got sick of SP and didn't have much chance of MP.

Re:Deathrow (1)

Osty (16825) | more than 7 years ago | (#16879970)

It's also, in true Halo style, not overly entertaining in single player while (at least in Deathrow's case) being a complete blast in multi. In SP mode the teams get ridiculously hard later on, and IIRC it was the robot team in an optional match that appeared to be virtually unbeatable. I can't deny though, it was a fun game, and I very much regret ebaying my copy back when I got sick of SP and didn't have much chance of MP.

I like to believe that's why the game died an early death. Ubi released it just months before Xbox Live debuted, which meant that its truly brilliant multiplayer gameplay could not be experienced on Live. Had they waited 6 more months for Live to launch and to implement it in the game, I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up as a massively popular game with multiple sequels.

Now, though? Good luck finding a copy if you don't already have one. It might even be worth real money in a decade or so when the Xbox becomes "retro" like the SNES is today.

Re:Deathrow (1)

AcidLacedPenguiN (835552) | more than 7 years ago | (#16885842)

My friends and I had some good times with Deathrow. There's nothing quite like an 8 player smackdown in it. The only problem is that after a few matches we'd all come away from it with black eyes, bloody noses, and hoarse voices. I don't think there was a more competitive game in that entire generation, and I for one would like to see a sequel on the Xbox360 or better yet, on the Wii. I imagine my weekly expenditure would have to include the price of broken Wiimotes from every friday night though :(

Definately had a good run if not a bit short. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16878568)

The past 5 have been awsome for the Xbox.

Over 700 games came out for the platform. Some of those being of very high quality (and where were Ninja Gaiden / Dead or Alive / DOAX on that list?).

Thriving homebrew scene. XBMC still outdoes X360 on almost all counts as a media player.

I'm gonna miss it when / if the 360 gets hacked, but the original Xbox is not gonna be forgotten.

It wasn't just games that made the Xbox special... (5, Insightful)

Beefysworld (1005767) | more than 7 years ago | (#16878710)

I only picked up my Xbox at the start of this year. Strangely enough, it was bundled with three of the games mentioned in the second article (Voodoo Vince, Kung Fu Chaos and Crimson Skies) as well as the ever-present Halo. However, my primary reason for picking up a Xbox wasn't for gaming (I already owned a reasonable PC, a PS2 and a Gamecube). The main reason I bought the console is because it's one of the cheapest options for a media centre that I could find. A quick soft-mod later (after installing XBMC) and I had a console that could stream content from my PC straight onto my television. It was a blessing in disguise.
Of course, that also allowed me to play games I hadn't necessarily purchased, but that's not the point. However, after playing around with it for a while I actually decided to pick up a X360 as well.
Another reason the first Xbox was so successful was because it was the first console to truly incorporate online play. Xbox Live has been one of the biggest drawcards for the Microsoft consoles to date, though Sony and Nintendo have played catch up with the current generation of consoles.

Re:It wasn't just games that made the Xbox special (1)

antic (29198) | more than 7 years ago | (#16879432)

Agree 100%.

Have had mine for a few years and get loads of use out of it. Loaded up with games, movies, Family Guy episodes, etc. Bargain of the century.

Still play Halo II with friends, still play a lot of FIFA World Cup 2002, Fusion Frenzy, etc.

Only when you can hack/mod the 360 quite easily will I 'upgrade'.

Re:It wasn't just games that made the Xbox special (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16880882)

However, my primary reason for picking up a Xbox wasn't for gaming (I already owned a reasonable PC, a PS2 and a Gamecube). The main reason I bought the console is because it's one of the cheapest options for a media centre that I could find. A quick soft-mod later (after installing XBMC) and I had a console that could stream content from my PC straight onto my television.

Why would you want to stream content with a modded Xbox when you could have had a Squeezebox [slimdevices.com] for around the same price ($250)?

Qh, wait, you're talking video . . . .

Don't Forget the First Xbox (1)

Trogre (513942) | more than 7 years ago | (#16878736)

no... I think I would rather forget it, thanks.

What's very useful about this list is .. (2, Interesting)

PaganRitual (551879) | more than 7 years ago | (#16879118)

.. that it tells you if Microsoft themselves have forgotten about the games in question :

2. Project Gotham Racing 1 and 2

* Project Gotham Racing 1 review
* Project Gotham Racing 2 review
* Xbox 360 compatible? No - both

Re:What's very useful about this list is .. (1)

RasputinAXP (12807) | more than 7 years ago | (#16879140)

No, what that tells you is that Project Gotham 3 was a release title, and as such they didn't particularly want you still leaning on PGR2 as your main racer.

Re:What's very useful about this list is .. (1)

PaganRitual (551879) | more than 7 years ago | (#16879226)

That's a pretty cynical approach. I always wonder how people arrive at this logic. Surely you could stretch that out to not wanting to release more than one iteration of a franchise per console so people don't abandon one at the expense of another. People like more of the same thing if it's done right. See : GTA.

8. Forza Motorsport

* Review
* Xbox 360 compatible? Yes


(Yes, I know you're right, I just wanted to argue for arguments sake)

Re:What's very useful about this list is .. (1)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 7 years ago | (#16882128)

"(Yes, I know you're right, I just wanted to argue for arguments sake)"

Me to, me too!

The difference is that PGR3 was a launch title, and MS knew that to increase sales as much as possible, they should not have PGR 1 and 2 be compatible with the 360. Forza is being released more than a year after launch. It's far, far to late to worry about launch sales now. Instead, the opposite is true: With Forza being backwards-compat at launch, it could increase sales of those not willing to leave the game behind, but want the other new games on the 360.

Of course, that's all tinfoil-hat and probably not true. I suspect the truth is simply that MS has more important things to worry about than backwards compatibility and they only have a small staff working on it now. There's still a few games I'd like to see updated, but if they never are, it won't matter. I'd MUCH rather play new games than old ones.

WTF (1)

Captain Splendid (673276) | more than 7 years ago | (#16879416)

...but ultimately slapped down by our Tom for some slowdown and being way too easy - though you'll note he complains about it taking "only" 12 hours to finish...

What the?

Either this Tom fellow is a fucking liar or the greatest gamer EVAR.

I've had that game 3 years, and I still haven't finished it, let alone 12 fucking hours.

Steel Battalion! (1)

FlyingPancake (1028404) | more than 7 years ago | (#16879630)

Wow I feel like a loser now. I scanned through both articles just looking for my Steel Battalion. The controller sits prominently on top of my TV. I'm still pissed there won't be a new game for the 360!

Still Has Legs! (1)

dr.banes (823348) | more than 7 years ago | (#16879692)

The article touched on some interesting opinions and yes those are arguably the best exclusive games on the console. However, modding it gave me almost every emulator and they play quite well to this day on top of having XBMC. In a way the latest consoles are basically late on this stuff. Now all of a sudden downloadable classics,media center is the next "coolest thing". I think that if the Capcoms,Konamis,Squares,etc would've showed more love the original Xbox would've had a better showing. Imagine Devil May Cry with normal and bump mapping and just better graphic quality, the same goes for MGS(that old PS2 port doesn't count)and a host of other PS2 games. I say that the graphic capabilities are still up there, the only thing missing is HD of course but other than that it still has legs to stand on. For the record, I own all 3 current gen consoles and eventually will own all 3 "next-gen" consoles again,especially when the PS3 goes down in price.

Microsoft Already Forgot the First Xbox (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16880308)

With the announcement that the new Halo 2 multiplayer maps will only be available on the Xbox 360, it seems to me like Microsoft has forgotten the first Xbox. I know that they want to provide more incentive for buying a 360. But seriously, creating new content for Halo 2 and then not even making it available on the system the game was released on-even Sony is smart enough not to do that.

Three words: Battle Engine Aquila (1)

Asmor (775910) | more than 7 years ago | (#16880374)

I went through the list of cult classics looking for one game, and am quite happy it was there:

Battle Engine Aquila

Freaking absolutely fantastic game. If you haven't played it, you really owe it to yourself.

Otherwise, there were a few games I was surprised to see... I always thought MechAssault was pretty popular, being the first Xbox Live game and all (and a great one at that). Also figured Fuzion Frenzy was considered a hit.

The cult classics list is good but missing a few.. (2, Informative)

bVork (772426) | more than 7 years ago | (#16880500)

The Xbox was my favourite console of last generation - and I'm not an FPS fan. I thought it had a great mix of unique exclusives, PC ports, and better-than-ps2-and-cube versions of multiplatform titles.

I think they were a little forgiving in picking out cult classics (XIII? Bleh) but there are still some good ones mentioned.

Here are some of my favourite console (so I'm including PC ports that didn't see release on any other system) exclusives:

Phantom Dust - it looks like a third-person action game but plays like a collectible card game in real time. The singleplayer game has a very unique atmosphere reminiscient of Panzer Dragoon Saga (not surprising, considering it was designed by the same person), but the real draw is the incredible multiplayer action via Xbox Live. I really hope this shows up on the 360 compatibility list in the future, as I'd love to play it online again. Inexplicably, this Microsoft-developed game was released here by Majesco after MS decided not to publish it in North America, so it's a little hard to find. Definitely worth tracking down, though.

Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath - they mentioned this one in the article, but it deserves being mentioned again. Its unique blend of third-person platforming and first-person action will appeal to those who don't necessarily like either (or who love both). Toss in some of the most beautiful graphics on Xbox (and that's saying something!), a storyline with some serious and profound statements on tolerance, culture, and the environment, and incredibly satisfying boss battles, and you have one of the greatest Xbox titles out there. Too bad it isn't 360 compatible.

OutRun 2 - This was one of the major reasons I bought an Xbox in the first place. It's an incredibly fun and beautiful racing game with the best drift mechanics since the glory days of Ridge Racer. Along with the original arcade mode, this home port adds a suprisingly long mission mode with a lot of unlockables and tons of fun and unique objectives. Coast 2 Coast was nowhere near as good as this game. C2C is far uglier (it looks like a PS2 game thanks to all jaggies and shimmering, a far cry from the clean look of the original), too easy (the time limits are much more forgiving and bouncing off of the wall doesn't kill your momentum), and very tedious (the new mission mode involves a lot of repetition and locks many of the same items as included in the original - but also locks some that were available from the start in the original!). Skip C2C, get this version. Sadly, this is another game that isn't on the 360 compatibility list.

Xyanide - this looks like a rail shooter but plays like an arena shooter. If you can get over the twisting and turning camera and the somewhat repetitive backgrounds, the gameplay is excellent. It may look simple at first, but there's a lot of strategy involved in upgrading your two weapons (do you choose to focus on the capital ship killer or the fighter killer?) and choosing your four special powers (from a huge assortment - I still haven't even seen them all). This was a very recent budget release, so you may or may not be able to find it locally. I suggest ebay. Again, no 360 compatibility. Dammit.

The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind - I prefer this to Oblivion. While its fairly ugly and somewhat offputting at first, the atmosphere is far better. Vvardenfell is a unique and alien place unlike anything I've ever seen before or since. The attention to detail makes the land of the Dunmer feel like a real place. The gameplay is far less action-based and more stats-oriented than Oblivion, which may or may not be a turn-off. There are also more (and several mutually-exclusive) quest lines than Oblivion. Though the quests are often shorter and simpler than Oblivion, the sheer number of them is overwhelming. Despite a fair number of bugs and glitches, Morrowind remains one of the finest RPGs I have ever played. Yet again, it isn't compatible with 360.

Metalwolf Chaos - this Japanese-only mech game is hilarious and awesome. You play as the President of the US and pilot a mech in order to take back the country after a coup by the Vice-President. The voice acting is entirely in English and is an absolute riot. The game is a pure action-packed combo-oriented blastfest. Apart from some Japanese-only upgrade screens (which can usually be puzzled out from the pictures of the weapons), this game is very import-friendly and definitely worth trying if you have a modded (or a Japanese) Xbox. 360 compatibility? Hah. Hahahaha. Yeah, right.

Unreal Championship 2 - Yes, I said right at the beginning that I'm not an FPS fan. But this game is awesome. It's like the Unreal Tournament games, but with a greater emphasis on sheer speed and agility. The weapons are more streamlined and better balanced, too. Even the melee weapon can be very useful, as you can deflect shots with it. There's also a surprisingly long and involving tournament-based singleplayer game with an interesting plot. Again, not 360 compatible. WTF, Microsoft?

Sid Meier's Pirates! - A more streamlined version of the PC game that ditches the landmark-sighting treasure hunting and has a few other minor improvements. It's an open-ended game where you play as a pirate (or privateer) and choose your allegiences, targets, and so on - while trying to rescue your family. The graphics tap into classical pirate movies with the very clean and vibrant style, and the gameplay is simply fun. Unlike the games I mentioned already, this one is 360 compatible! Yay!

Star Wars: KOTOR I and II - The first KOTOR is one of the finest RPGs ever made. It's a great counterpart to more freeform games like the Elder Scrolls series, with its emphasis on a tight plot that still allows different moral choices. The combat is turn-based but looks real-time. It takes a while to get used to it, but it's very deep once you figure out how it exactly works (and turn on the appropriate combat messages in the options menu). The many different skills you can upgrade as you go through the game make every character unique and tempt you into replaying it to try a different style. The first game is far better, but only because the second was unfinished. I prefer KOTOR 2's grittier and darker atmosphere, but it's obvious that the endgame was rushed. The amazing thing about the game is that it is still excellent despite the glaring flaws. If KOTOR 2 was properly completed, it might have been the best RPG ever made. As it is, the game is still a must-play. Both titles are 360 compatible.

Re:The cult classics list is good but missing a fe (1)

Raenex (947668) | more than 7 years ago | (#16881596)

Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath

Yeah, I recently played this. It looks just amazing (and really shows why the graphics capabilities of the next-gens are overhyped). Fun game, really well done.

Re:The cult classics list is good but missing a fe (1)

Hubbell (850646) | more than 7 years ago | (#16882466)

Phantom Dust is where a lot of us from Asheron's Call: Darktide tried to go for a skillful game we could all play, and we weren't disappointed. Amazing game, sadly not popular enough to last :(

Re:The cult classics list is good but missing a fe (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16885570)

the greatest xbox EXCLUSIVES (sorry halo, dcote, morrowind, pirates, psychonauts etc)
oddworld stranger
phantom dust

end of story
xbox is all pc ports

Re:The cult classics list is good but missing a fe (1)

bVork (772426) | more than 7 years ago | (#16886466)

I guess you missed the part at the beginning where I mentioned that the Xbox has many PC ports, and why I decided to include them in the list of "exclusives". You also ignored Metalwolf Chaos, Unreal Championship 2, OutRun 2, and Xyanide. In other words, nearly half of the list.

Re:The cult classics list is good but missing a fe (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16907650)

OutRun 2 isn't strictly a PC port, but OutRun 2006 includes all the OutRun 2 tracks and cars and is available on PC. Edge magazine claimed the PC version was "definitive", but I can't really comment as I've only played that version myself. I can say that it's awesome.

Also, Morrowind is so much better on PC and has such trivial system requirements by modern standards that playing on xbox would be pretty silly.

That said, I do hope to get one some day for UC2 and Panzer Dragoon.

MotoGP 1 & 2? (2, Interesting)

sumday (888112) | more than 7 years ago | (#16882110)

No love for this amazing series of racing games? The dual analogue stick control gave the most alarmingly engaging simutated racing experience i've ever come across. Especially on xbox live! No game is perfect, but in my eyes this one came close. I've never felt such a strong desire to get that flawless lap.

Can't beat a modded Xbox (1)

nullchar (446050) | more than 7 years ago | (#16886394)

Yeah, the "real" games are great, but with a modded xbox, the Xbox Media Center (XBMC) rocks. Also, checkout Super Mario War: http://smw.72dpiarmy.com/ [72dpiarmy.com]
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