China Reinstates Wikipedia Ban 172
Rob T Firefly writes "The International Herald Tribute reports that the lifting of China's Wikipedia ban earlier this week was short-lived. Wikipedia is once again inaccessible from behind the Great Firewall, along with all other Wikimedia projects. Additionally, the URL of Chinese Wikipedia is once again a banned search term. No reason has yet been given for any of it." From the article: "It wasn't immediately clear if Wikipedia was inaccessible due to technical glitches or because government censors had blocked the site again. The Foreign Ministry and Ministry of Information Industry did not immediately respond when contacted for comment Friday. Beijing blocked access to the English and Chinese versions of Wikipedia in October last year, apparently out of concern about entries touching on the country's sensitive spots -- Tibet, Taiwan and other topics."
Reflects the Politics in Beijing (Score:5, Informative)
In Beijing you have the conservatives and the hard-line conservatives duking it out for control. When policy changes it's because one side has momentarily gained the upper hand, or believed they had, and ordered the change.
Re:Reflects the Politics in Beijing (Score:5, Interesting)
When policy changes it's because one side has momentarily gained the upper hand, or believed they had, and ordered the change.
I really have no understanding of how policy is set in China, but I might be able to believe that if Wikipedia was accessible for a month or two, but a major blocking policy like this changing over a few days seems a bit insane. Is there really no one in charge over there that makes decisions that last more than a few days? How the hell can you run a country like that?
Since the change from block->no-block->block was all so abrupt I'd say it's more likely that this was just either a technical glitch in the firewall, or a deliberate attempt at trying to perpetuate the belief inside China that there IS no official censorship and it's all just "trouble contacting some sites".
Re:Reflects the Politics in Beijing (Score:5, Informative)
This pattern of behavior was played out on a much larger scale early on in PRC history: the Hundred Flowers Campaign [wikipedia.org] followed by the Anti-Rightist Movement [wikipedia.org]. The pattern is: open up and seemingly liberalize communications for a brief period; then, once everyone who criticizes the government identifies themselves, you go clean them up. Pretty straightforward.
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Hmm.. It's an interesting theory, but it doesn't sound very plausible. If your goal was to find anyone with conflicting views that wants to express them wouldn't you leave the doors open more than a couple days? What would be the purpose to close it down so quickly? Word of Wikipedia being open might not have even spread very wid
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If they let people criticize the government for too long, other people start to listen. That runs the risks of more people criticizing the goverment. Those freely spoken ideas begin to spread and suddenly you have a square full of student protesters. They you have to call in the tanks. But what goverment would ever do that to its youth?
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. . . which is why Karl Rove didn't rig the 2006 mid-term elections. . .
Re:Reflects Politics as a whole more like (Score:5, Insightful)
Please be serious, every ruling class has their own agenda and they very rarely tell the people they rule.
A way to lure in new tech firms? (Score:1)
Isn't that the official response to the outside world by China when asked about the 'Great Firewall'? This would probably make more sense than any other explanation. When the PRC lifted the ban, I would assume that they knew about the content of the site and where it comes from before lifting the ban in the first place. Just common sense.
I am h
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Sounds a lot like Washington, D.C.
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Maintaining "traditional values" is conservative, and after being in power for about 60 years, the Communist Party is extremely traditionl. They're as revolutionary as twe Daughters of the American Revolution are.
China is still communal, they just are starting to realize how bad big government and income redistribution is.
China is very happy with big government. With 1.3 billion people you can hardly not have big government. And you'll be happy to kno
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If someone is a conservative, they are working to CONSERVE the status quo. So in China, the Communists are conservatives. The liberals would be supporters of democracy.
The words are also used differently in Europe. And once upon a time in the USA, liberals were supporters of democracy and a free market... it's different now. The terms are not bound to any specific id
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Regressives reach back to the history of a nation for ideas that have been thrown out, and try to bring them back - 'You modern panzies need to get used to coal - I worked the mines until I was 16, and I'm healthy as an ox. Isn't it a great symbol of our strength that we can decapitate a MO
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Could be.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Could be.... (Score:5, Funny)
It was National Profiling week (Score:1)
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Now the problem has been resolved ^^.
Nothing to see here. Move along ~
Re:Could be.... (Score:5, Funny)
Technical Glitches (Score:4, Interesting)
How about adding a million glitches (Score:2)
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Wikinews link (Score:4, Informative)
Never ascribe to malice... (Score:3, Insightful)
Whether the earlier opening up or this latest blocking is on purpose I don't think we'll know. According to the Chinese delegate to the conference in Greece two weeks ago no sites are blocked.
Re:Never ascribe to malice... (Score:5, Funny)
Wow, China is more liberal with the internet than my employer. Maybe I'll move there, I hear Tiananmen Square is lovely in June.
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Re:Never ascribe to malice... (Score:5, Insightful)
The same delegate would also be glad to tell you of China's wonderful human rights record, how much Chinese occupation has improved Tibet, and how China is democratic.
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The same delegate would also be glad to tell you of China's wonderful human rights record, how much Chinese occupation has improved Tibet, and how China is democratic.
Hey, maybe when the delegate gets back and finds out that his sites are blocked, then they'll become unblocked. I'm sorry, but such a big thing is made of one event of the Chinese government of course they'll want to sweep it under the rug, and
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Pretty hard to do without a navy.
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Good lord! China's built a battlestar! (Score:2)
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Dishonesty like that just amaze. Who do they think they are fooling? To say something like that with a straight face you have to put no value on truth and honesty.
pool's over (Score:5, Funny)
Lazy Commie bastards (Score:2)
Excellent tactic (Score:4, Interesting)
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Flowers_Camp
Of course it won't seem so small-scale to the people tossed into the jail...
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This reasoning assumes that the ultimate goal of the Chinese gov't is to arrest its citizens. People using Wikipedia are not necessarily free-thinking or critical off the government, so this would be almost random people (although not the poor farmers who don't have Internet access). I do think the Chinese regime is bad, and it is oppressive, but I don't think it is evil for the sake of being evil. Even if it was, there are thousands of other ways to prosecute random citizens. The un-banning of WP allowed m
Too much vandalism (Score:2, Funny)
Blame canada (Score:1, Troll)
The Canadian PM likes to nag china about human rights.
So China took one away to prove Canada's point.
Searching vs typing in URL? (Score:2)
I know many non-techie users can't wrap their heads around typing in URLs to go directly to the site without a Google or MSN search, but you'd think they'd block direct access rather than the search.
Re:Searching vs typing in URL? (Score:5, Informative)
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back to tor i guess
Accordign to Google..... (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.asiamedia.ucla.edu/article.asp?parenti
http://www.toptechnews.com/news/China-Abandons-Wi
I don't know if I entirely believe it, but that's another story....
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Run TOR (Score:5, Informative)
http://tor.eff.org/ [eff.org]
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What's happend if China (Score:1)
Sigh... flamebait subject line (Score:2)
But they don't censor the Internet! (Score:1)
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Yes they have a history of doing that but so did Iraq. And you believed in WMD in Iraq?
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A true reason why it blocked. (Score:3, Informative)
The blockage of some websites could be a side effect using that software suit, some websites being blocked occasionaly might because some word trigger(such like some word might be used against The Party) was accidentially fired. Or else, some websites opening occasionally could because some trigger words are removed from the ban list of the software or from the page of the website , in which wikipedia can be the case.
So maybe the control to release a website from ban list isn't in hands of the gov, since that secrity software suit has already been installed in every level of the network and works independently. It's more like a polical-oriented but technical problem now.
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Oh, a propaganda or an education. (Score:2, Interesting)
Please remember, China has already enabled internet. Dont yo
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My 2 cents (Score:2, Insightful)
Why Doesn't China.... (Score:3, Insightful)
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The Planetary Datalinks (Score:4, Insightful)
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That is a quote from Commissioner Pravin Lal, "U.N. Declaration of Rights." See more about the Commissioner here:
http://www.firaxis.com/smac/lal.cfm [firaxis.com]
hah! simple! (Score:1)
tunnels (Score:1)
Remind me to skip the 2008 Olympics.
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Seen who's up next?
At the rate they're going, the UK should have become every bit as oppressive as China by the time London gets the games in 2012.
I wish I was joking about this.
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Says who? Standard High Chinese ("Mandarin") certainly has differences between r, l, t, d, p, b, g, and k. In detail (I assume you use Pinyin):
r: similar to English r, tip of the tongue rolled upwards, voiced
l: like in land or lung
t: like english t, tip of the tongue touches back side of upper front teeth, but strongly aspirated with audible breath following the sound
d: like t but not aspirated; short
p: like english p, but strongly aspirated with audible breath fol
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Well, it might in the north, and it might not in the south. Even with one unifying language, there is still very little movement within the country, and people learning the provincial language as well as Mandarin. So in the South, the "l" and "n" are pronounced the same. This was pointed out to me while I was talking with someone from the south when a Beijing native was poking fun at him. They are unable to spell some things in Pinyin because of the ambiguity of
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Re:Tick Tock (Score:5, Interesting)
Rich, well-fed people do not drive revolutions. On the other hand, if you are hungry, cannot get a job, live on the street, cannot cloth your kids... in short, if you have nothing to lose, then all the freedom and democracy in the world will not abate your unrest.
So the fact that China becomes prosperous is a very good news for the Dear Leaders. And very bad for our military.
Re:Tick Tock (Score:5, Interesting)
Rich, well-fed people do not drive revolutions.
Huh. I could have sworn most of the founding fathers in the US were wealthy land owners. I suppose you could argue that they weren't the ones DRIVING the revolution, merely the ones leading it. But I've also never heard about the American revolution being started because the majority of people were hungry or un-employed. From what I've been told it was that people were pissed off that England was imposing draconian controls on trade, freedom of expression, etc.
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Re:Tick Tock (Score:4, Interesting)
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Still, there is a bit of a point there: both types of revolts are often driven by the at least moderately well-off who see themselves as positioned to be even more well-off if the revolution succeeds
Hmm.. I sure haven't extensively studied the founding fathers of the US, but it's my understanding that they were quite driven to establish liberty, and not simply driven by greed or a lust for power. If you read what they wrote about (and argued amongst themselves) it becomes quite apparent they weren't just
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I didn't say anything about the US founding fathers in particular, I said both types of revolt are often shaped by certain processes. OTOH, every revolutions leaders, now matter how self-interested their goals actually are, of course mouth propaganda that appeals to the masses with noble ideals. Often (even wh
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In any case, I think arguing details of the specific motivations of the American revolution in response to a discussion of the relation of the Chinese situation with general trends it what motivates or produces rebellion is somewhat pointless if it isn't grounded in anything broader than the particular motivation of particular American leaders.
I agree. My only point in bringing up the American revolution was to give an undeniable case where revolution wasn't sparked by hungy, unemployed people. I'm certai
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It would be more accurate to say that they were driven to re-establish liberty. Americans at the time still saw themselves as British. They thought the way the British government was set up was actually quite good. They simply thought King George was a bad ruler. That is why after the revolution the Am
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I wouldn't necessarily call a desire for prosperity that was being inhibited by foreign rule "simply driven by greed",
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Those on the next rung down (the domestic élite) didn't like that, and convinced everybody to revolt.
Post-revolution, the ladder was still the same, just one rung shorter. The people at the bottom were still at the bottom, just with slightly fewer people controlling them.
- RG>
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Sure they do! Certainly the American revolution was driven by the rich and well fed. More often when the non-desperate drive socail change it is by non-violent means, of course. Of the examples I can think of off the top of my head, it would seem social change movements intitated mostly by the not-entirely-desperate are the ones likely to produce lasting positive change. The desperate also drive revolutiuons, but their movements are more likely to get hija
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That actually is not true at all. Many, if no most successful revolutions at least have the backing of the middle class. The middle class wields incredible power both in terms of finding intellectual justification for rebellion as well as financial support. Money and education do a lot to drive a revolution forward.
If you want some close to home examples, Europe's slide out of monarchy all came at the hands of a well fed middle class. The American revolutio
The middle class *are* the revolutionaries (Score:2)
The free market in China will build an independently wealthy middle class which will eventually demand a say in how their country is run. It means there's going to be political change. It might take 20 years, but it'll happen.
Re:Ascribing malice to Bush, lapping up Communist (Score:1)
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