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Patches For Pine Going Away

kdawson posted more than 7 years ago | from the pining-for-the-fjords dept.

177

md8mart writes to let us know about the imminent shutdown of the site that distributes Pine patches. From the RSS feed of Patches for Pine we read the following bad news for all Pine users: "The Department of Mathematics of the University of Washington will close the account that hosts my Patches for Pine site. I would like to thank the Department of Mathematics for having hosted this site for so many years. I do not have current plans to move this site, but this site will disappear on December 15, 2006. Thank you to everyone who supported me by positive feedback and encouragement to do this work through the years. I will update this information as it becomes available."

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177 comments

oh god no! (4, Funny)

krahli (556957) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903082)

this is terrible!

Re:oh god no! (1, Insightful)

MollyB (162595) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903092)

I haven't used Pine for 12 years or so, but this feels like the folks writing to say that old Rover is gone...

Rover (2, Funny)

Hemi Rodner (570284) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903134)

Rover as in the Fidonet mascot?

Re:oh god no! (5, Informative)

arth1 (260657) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903140)

MollyB (162595) wrote:
I haven't used Pine for 12 years or so, but this feels like the folks writing to say that old Rover is gone...

Except that it isn't. It's the user site "patches for pine" that goes away, not pine, nor the pine web site, nor pine itself.

The official web site is at http://www.washington.edu/pine/ [washington.edu]
The site that will be closed is http://www.math.washington.edu/~chappa/pine/ [washington.edu]

Regards,
--
*Art

Re:oh god no! (2, Insightful)

xanalogical (808042) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903274)

I'm not up on the pine scene but why aren't the patches folded into the upstream? Seems if you're checking out, you'd submit them all before you turn off the lights, but perhaps there is some legal reason.

Re:oh god no! (4, Informative)

TeknoHog (164938) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903676)

I'm not up on the pine scene but why aren't the patches folded into the upstream? Seems if you're checking out, you'd submit them all before you turn off the lights, but perhaps there is some legal reason.

These patches have been around for a long time, and I'm sure the author has suggested them for upstream merger already.

You're on the right track concerning legal reasons, which is why there's so much fuss about Pine patches compared to other software patches. In my understanding, the license [washington.edu] forbids the distribution of unofficial versions, except for local use. You can only distribute your own version of Pine as a set of patches against the official version.

Distributions like Gentoo get around this nicely by automatically patching and compiling upon install. But the fact remains that Pine is not Free software in the sense that you would be free to distribute your improvements.

Personally, I'm not too worried as I believe the patches will find another home. I've used Pine since 1998, I think it strikes a very good balance between convenience of use and customizability, and I haven't found a decent alternative.

How would you compare pine and mutt? (1)

A nonymous Coward (7548) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903950)

I haven't used pine in so long that I've forgotten it. I only used it for a short while, then used other programs for a long time, and now have used mutt for several years. Have you tried mutt? How would you compare them?

Re:How would you compare pine and mutt? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16904174)

I've used both and I like pine more. At least for me it is faster to use (i.e., I can get through the daily mail faster when I'm using pine.) YMMV

Re:How would you compare pine and mutt? (2, Interesting)

TeknoHog (164938) | more than 7 years ago | (#16904346)

Have you tried mutt? How would you compare them?

I tried Mutt at some point, but I got frustrated at how much customization it would require to get working the way I like. It seemed like it would be easier for me to write my own mail client (as I've already worked with textmode interfaces and there are tons of libraries for the network side). Besides, after things like threaded view and maildir format came into Pine, I had no need feature-wise to use anything else but Pine.

IMHO, Pine has pretty good UI design in that it's quite easy and intuitive for beginners, but also quite customizable for experienced users. So as you grow into a power user, the software can grow with you. (It's a bit like learning Linux with a desktop environment, and gradually proceeding into deeper things like kernel hacking. Try doing the same with the beginner-only design of Windows.)

This is probably why Pine is still the recommended mail client in many universities. The only problem these days must be that text mode is often perceived as inherently difficult or outdated.

Crap, so now I have to choose (1)

RLiegh (247921) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903086)

between foregoing security updates or switching to that bloated thunderbird GUI monstrosity...

Re:Crap, so now I have to choose (1)

stinerman (812158) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903110)

Isn't there a free clone of Pine? Or did GNU just do a free clone of pico [gnu.org] ? If not, perhaps pine can be released under a BSD-style license if it isn't going to be maintained anymore.

Re:Crap, so now I have to choose (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16903128)

nano : pico :: mutt : pine

So yes. mutt.

Re:Crap, so now I have to choose (1)

notthe9 (800486) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903624)

The analogy isn't completely balanced. nano and pico are virtually identical, where mutt doesn't attempt to be exactly like pine.

Re:Crap, so now I have to choose (4, Informative)

CaptainAvatar (113689) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903192)

Check out Alpine [washington.edu] :
In late 2005, Computing & Communications at the University of Washington began a project to create a new family of email tools built upon the Pine® Message System. This family of tools is called Alpine. Alpine consists of a UNIX command-line program, a PC version, and a Web version. Alpine will be licensed under the Apache License, Version 2.0. The target date for the release of Alpine is October 1, 2006.
Obviously they didn't meet the target date, but if you can't live without pine it looks like it's still going to be around, and more sensibly-licensed too.

Re:Crap, so now I have to choose (3, Informative)

mustafap (452510) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903652)

Its the patches site thats going, not pine itself.

Re:Crap, so now I have to choose (1)

EvilIdler (21087) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903930)

I consider Mutt the Pine replacement.

Re:Crap, so now I have to choose (1)

arth1 (260657) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903118)

The way I read it, pine isn't going away, just the "patches for pine" web site hosted by an individual. So now one might have to wait for new revisions instead of patching an existing release.

Regards,
--
*Art

Re:Crap, so now I have to choose (1)

tsa (15680) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903684)

Come on, TB is not that bad. But it's unusable if you often log in to a Linux/Unix server from a Windows machine using ssh. I know a few people who do that often. They all use Pine because it's perfect for that. Runs in a terminal and has all the features you want. I've used it myself for about 8 years before switching to Thunderbird.

Re:Crap, so now I have to choose (1)

CronoCloud (590650) | more than 7 years ago | (#16904252)

Cygwin includes a X server so you can use it's ssh to login to your Linux box and use TB. :-)

Just switch to CONE - nearly same interface (3, Informative)

ballermann (124688) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903714)

I switched from pine to CONE a long time ago. It looks nearly like Pine, but has integrated GPG support and works fine with IMAP folders.

See http://www.courier-mta.org/cone/cone00index.html [courier-mta.org] for the website and http://wiki.splitbrain.org/cone [splitbrain.org] for some info on compiling it.

Re:Crap, so now I have to choose (1)

jamstar7 (694492) | more than 7 years ago | (#16904258)

between foregoing security updates or switching to that bloated thunderbird GUI monstrosity...

Or, for the adventurous, there's http://www.netego.de/pronto/ [netego.de] a cool database backend, gui front end, with support for even Postgres for the snobs amungst us...

Re:Crap, so now I have to choose (1)

b0s0z0ku (752509) | more than 7 years ago | (#16904494)

a cool database backend, gui front end

I rather like a flatfile backend. It makes it easier to edit corrupted message store files.

GUI front end? I thought we were talking about text mode mail clients?

-b.

upgrade (4, Interesting)

zdzichu (100333) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903090)

It's time to upgrade to Mutt [mutt.org] .

Re:upgrade (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16903234)

I had to move from pine to mutt because of utf-8.
I have proposed that pine moves to gpl so it could get real
development and updates.

Re:upgrade (1)

Noksagt (69097) | more than 7 years ago | (#16904620)

Pine is moving to the Apache License. Furthermore, I think it will support UTF-8 (without the need for Eduardo Chappa's patches).

Mutt's a pain in the ass to set up for SMTP. (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16903730)

Mutt is simple enough to configure when using IMAP to access a mailbox, but it starts to become a hassle when you want to send mail via SMTP. While Pine includes SMTP support, you have to use one of a number of third-party MTAs with Mutt for similar functionality. Setting all that up is often a hassle.

I know the arguments behind not adding such support, and having been a Mutt user myself for a while I understand the raw power it offers. But I also understand that many people don't want to spend a lot of extra time setting up their mail client just because it doesn't include some core functionality.

Re:Mutt's a pain in the ass to set up for SMTP. (0)

thc69 (98798) | more than 7 years ago | (#16904304)

Parent is AC and got scored 0, but is 100% correct and deserves insightful/interesting/informative. I was about to post exactly the same thing.

Now, my question: Is there a script/package/wrapper/forked subproject/etc to make it simple and easy to install mutt?

I used to use it, and really liked it. I used it for a couple years straight, then went to a new Linux distribution. By that time, I couldn't remember how to set it up, and couldn't be bothered to fsck with learning it again.

Re:Mutt's a pain in the ass to set up for SMTP. (1)

ilikejam (762039) | more than 7 years ago | (#16904370)

If it's just SMTP support you need, then install 'msmtp', and use it instead of sendmail. The configuration involved for msmtp is a three line rc file.

Re:Mutt's a pain in the ass to set up for SMTP. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16904564)

Yes, I know about msmtp. It's what I used when I was still a Mutt user. It's difficult to justify the effort needed for msmtp. Sure, it may only be one package and three lines in a configuration file. But compared to Pine, that's still one more package that needs downloading, building and installing, and two additional lines of configuration.

Re:Mutt's a pain in the ass to set up for SMTP. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16904826)

wibble

Re:Mutt's a pain in the ass to set up for SMTP. (1)

ajs318 (655362) | more than 7 years ago | (#16904598)

Can you not just use your own MTA at /usr/lib/sendmail? If you have to use your ISP's SMTP server then configure your MTA to send all mail via a smarthost. Dead easy to do with exim and not much harder with sendmail. If you have to do a POP3 retrieval before you can send SMTP then put this in your crontab:

0-59/10 * * * * echo -e "USER fred\nPASS b00bies\nQUIT" |nc pop3.myisp.co.uk 110

replacing fred, b00bies and pop3.myisp.co.uk as appropriate. This will setup a POP3 connection (but not retrieve any mail) every 10 minutes. Alternatively, use fetchmail to retrieve your mail and configure your email clients to use your ordinary unix mailbox.

Re:upgrade (1)

Stinking Pig (45860) | more than 7 years ago | (#16904894)

I've used mutt plenty, but pine remains my favorite console MUA. It's a vi/emacs thing, I guess, what's intuitive and pleasant to some is alien and intrusive to others.

Oh, and :x

well there's always /usr/bin/mail (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16903098)

or you could use emacs

Re:well there's always /usr/bin/mail (5, Funny)

91degrees (207121) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903932)

I would use emacs. The only thing is, it lacks a decent text editor.

Re:well there's always /usr/bin/mail (1)

mr_walrus (410770) | more than 7 years ago | (#16904802)

>I would use emacs. The only thing is, it lacks a decent text editor.

{spew} and keyboard destroyed.

hee hee.

good one dude.

Isn't it time for a bunch of... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16903104)

..."deeply saddened" posts?

How about a change of license? (1)

dattaway (3088) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903108)

Its a nice email client, but the license is restrictive:

http://www.washington.edu/pine/overview/legal.html [washington.edu]

Re:How about a change of license? (1)

Lukrez (1029276) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903306)

The change is imminent -- consider Alpine [washington.edu] .

Re:How about a change of license? (1)

Lord Kano (13027) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903332)

The change is imminent -- consider Alpine.

RTFA. It's the third sentence on the page

  • At present I do not have any plans to continue or discontinue writing patches for Pine or Alpine (if it ever comes out!), since I am preparing for the birth of my second daugther (December 1st) and am swamped with work.


LK

Re:How about a change of license? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16903682)

patches

You're quoting the guy maintaining the patch repository. The Alpine page [washington.edu] reads thus:

Oct 1, 2006 - While Alpine isn't quite ready for release just yet, development continues at full speed. Keep checking this page for updates as the release nears.

Re:How about a change of license? (1)

chillyjim (562106) | more than 7 years ago | (#16904082)

What's so restrictive about " Use of Pine/Pico/Pilot: You may compile and execute these programs for any purpose, including commercial, without paying anything to the University of Washington, provided that the legal notices are maintained intact and honored." Sounds pretty straight forward and free to me.

Now is a great time to switch to mutt (2, Informative)

ptaff (165113) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903112)

As Pine is not free software [linuxtoday.com] , time to move on to mutt [mutt.org] or its next-gen friend, mutt-ng [supersized.org] . No need to use a bloated GUI app to read mail.

As for what "pine" means, here is the truth: "Pine Is Not Enough".

That's not what "pine" means (4, Funny)

Wee (17189) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903158)

As Pine is not free software, time to move on to mutt or its next-gen friend, mutt-ng. No need to use a bloated GUI app to read mail.

I don't care if pine is free or not. It's served me for many, many years. I use it daily, and it works well. It's not a gui app, either, though I'm not sure you were implying that it was.

As for what "pine" means, here is the truth: "Pine Is Not Enough".

That is false, and not terribly amusing. I had the great fortune to work for a number of years with one of pine's original developers. Over lunch one day, he told me that 'pine' isn't an acronym at all. But, he said, if it were to be made into a backronym [wikipedia.org] , it was generally agreed that it should stand for "Pine Is a Neologist's Elm".

You all can figure out what 'pico' doesn't stand for.

-B

Re:That's not what "pine" means (1)

Alrescha (50745) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903596)

"> As Pine is not free software, time to move on to mutt or its next-gen friend, mutt-ng. No need to use a bloated GUI app to read mail.

I don't care if pine is free or not. It's served me for many, many years. I use it daily, and it works well. It's not a gui app, either, though I'm not sure you were implying that it was."

I'm not sure why, but throughout my years of using Pine and other email clients, I have come to realize that mutt users cannot express why mutt is any good without also denigrating Pine. It's almost as if they are an 'anti-pine' contingent and if Pine were to cease to exist, they would disappear in a puff of greasy black smoke.

A.

Re:That's not what "pine" means (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 7 years ago | (#16904350)

I've never understood mutt anyway. The fate of Pine and nearly any other major character/terminal-oriented software no longer matters to me. I use bash to do certain configuration operations but that's it.

Re:That's not what "pine" means (1)

b0s0z0ku (752509) | more than 7 years ago | (#16904526)

The fate of Pine and nearly any other major character/terminal-oriented software no longer matters to me.

My laptop is set up to connect to my work VPN (actually my, since I have my own consulting company) basically continuously, no matter what wireless net it's on. It's much faster to then ssh in to my mail server - BSD not Linux :) - and fire up pine or mutt than it is to wait for Thunderbird or (Zoraster forbid!) Outlook to start up. And 99% of the time, graphics in my work e-mail are irrelevant. For the other 1%, there's webmail.

And, FYI, I can do a lot of stuff faster in a command shell than in a GUI. At least you don't need to twiddle a pointer around.

-b.

Re:That's not what "pine" means (1)

kiwimate (458274) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903680)

Wow, it's not hard...there's a link on his page to the official site for PINE, and one of the first things you see on that site is:

Pine® - a Program for Internet News & Email

Re:That's not what "pine" means (4, Informative)

SorcererX (818515) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903762)

According to the PINE website ( http://www.washington.edu/pine/ [washington.edu] ) PINE stands for "Program for Internet News & Email".

Re:That's not what "pine" means (1)

afabbro (33948) | more than 7 years ago | (#16904852)

Odd...for well over a decade I've heard it described as Pine Is Not Elm. In fact, that's about the only acronym that makes sense, and continues the tree naming standard nicely.

Re:Now is a great time to switch to mutt (1, Flamebait)

petrus4 (213815) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903218)

As Pine is not free software

You're assuming that other people care about that. They may not, and they don't have to, either.

Is it so difficult to allow other people to make their own decisions, rather than pushing your values onto them?

Re:Now is a great time to switch to mutt (1)

Reikk (534266) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903312)

Is it so difficult to allow other people to make their own decisions, rather than pushing your values onto them?
You must be new here.

Re:Now is a great time to switch to mutt (3, Insightful)

JohnFluxx (413620) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903538)

If he wants to say that, he should be allowed to.

Is it so difficult to allow other people to say what they think, rather than pushing your values onto them?

Re:Now is a great time to switch to mutt (1, Flamebait)

petrus4 (213815) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903632)

If he wants to say that, he should be allowed to.

I didn't say he wasn't...in fact, I specifically attempted to ensure that I would not say that. He was and is entirely allowed to say that. My objecting to what I perceived as arrogance underlying his statement does not detract from his right to make said statement.

What I specifically objected to was his implicit assumption that *everyone* cares about whether or not software is free. (according to the FSF's definition) It's an assumption that FSF advocates make, or try to make, all the time...and it's actually making use of a particular element of psychological warfare that the CIA documented; that of implicit assumption/agreement. The idea is that if you frame your argument in such a way as to make it sound as though your audience implicitly agrees unquestioningly with your first premise, (usually your most important one) it will be much easier to lead them into agreeing with your second.

Re:Now is a great time to switch to mutt (1)

JohnFluxx (413620) | more than 7 years ago | (#16904022)

Surely his view is that everyone _should_ care about whether or software is free.

I think you'd find it hard to find many FSF advocates who believe that everyone cares about it. One of the big goals of the FSF is to educate people and get them to care.

Re:Now is a great time to switch to mutt (1)

TheLink (130905) | more than 7 years ago | (#16904816)

I never saw the point of all this "oh don't push values onto other people" bullshit.

I figure we might as well push our values to other people while we can than let MTV, **AA, G W Bush etc have all the fun ;).

Of course in my opinion, force or threat of force should not be allowed. Because once you allow that, that soon reduces the odds of a useful and productive debate.

So saying that someone shouldn't say something, should be fine for most people, unless one is in a position of authority in which case some care should be taken - unless you think it's such a good idea to surround yourself with "Yes-men".

Lastly, feel free to try to push your values to me, but I suggest giving good reasons why I should even consider accepting them.

Re:Now is a great time to switch to mutt (1)

the_womble (580291) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903694)

The site that is closing is demonstrates why they should care:

1) It would be preferable to download a forked version rather than download patches separtely.

2) There have been no new versions of PINE for over an year - surely it would be nice to have a fork of the old Pine until Alpine is ready? Perhaps even after Alpine is released if some people do not like it?

Re:Now is a great time to switch to mutt (1)

ByTor-2112 (313205) | more than 7 years ago | (#16904646)

That would fall under the theory of "if you can't make better software, aim for the license!"

Re:Now is a great time to switch to mutt (3, Insightful)

dan dan the dna man (461768) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903284)

Maybe there will be a massive switch to Alpine [washington.edu] ?

From TFWP : "In late 2005, Computing & Communications at the University of Washington began a project to create a new family of email tools built upon the Pine® Message System. This family of tools is called Alpine. Alpine consists of a UNIX command-line program, a PC version, and a Web version.

Alpine will be licensed under the Apache License, Version 2.0."

PINE was my first UNIX mail reader on the now defunct MRC HGMP server circa 1995 (how I miss that account) so I grew to love it. That was around the time I still thought PICO was a neat editor. Then I found vi, them vim, then mutt, and I've not looked back :)

Re:Now is a great time to switch to mutt (1)

public transport (864195) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903364)

mutt is more powerful than Pine, vastly more so for those of use who learn to configure it. It's my primary mailer, Thunderbird my sencondary. But,

Pine is user friendly. It's doesn't have a GUI, but still has a menu system that makes it almost as user friendly as a GUI mailer. To many people I know, it is invaluable. It's what works without learning a bunch of keystrokes, whether you need to log in from a foreign remote Windows machine (no X, don't want to set up IMAP) to read mail, or if you just want a lightweight mailer.

I'll be looking for a replacement, possibly Alpine, as suggested in this thread, when it goes beta, whereas I'll reserve the mutt recommendation to power-users.

Re:Now is a great time to switch to mutt (1)

that this is not und (1026860) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903824)

whether you need to log in from a foreign remote Windows machine (no X, don't want to set up IMAP) to read mail,

It's more useful for logging in from a terminal, i.e. a VT-220, although I suppose if you have a terminal emulator for your chosen 'platform' that will emulate a VT-220 or anything else that the machine you connect to has a proper termcap entry for.....

*sigh*

Re:Now is a great time to switch to mutt (1)

that this is not und (1026860) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903816)

It stands for Pine Is Not Elm.

Perhaps it's time to switch back to Elm.

Re:Now is a great time to switch to mutt (1)

ratsg (544275) | more than 7 years ago | (#16904680)

switch??? I still use elm.

Am I the only one? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16903122)

I still use pine to access my Kmail mails when I'm not home- so long as Kmail isn't running I can access them fine (via ssh, of course). But I haven't seen pine updated for quite a while, so I can understand the reason to close the patches site. It just means that the program is finsihed! (therefore perfect)

  http://lyricslist.com/ [lyricslist.com]

well geez... (1)

coaxial (28297) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903136)

So the guy's .edu account is going away. Why doesn't he just get a .org domain and some hosting and just move the site there? Closing the site due to the loss of an .edu account sounds like a convient excuse to stop managing the site.

Just pass the torch man!

Easy for YOU to say... (1)

RLiegh (247921) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903138)

are you volunteering?

Re:well geez... (4, Interesting)

djh101010 (656795) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903144)

I sent him an email offering to host the site, we'll see what happens. I see patchesforpine.com is available (or was when this article was in "red" preview status). We'll see what happens; I can't see it being a huge load on my webhosts.

Re:well geez... (0, Troll)

multipartmixed (163409) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903512)

Did you also send him an e-mail offering to parent his newborn?

Or did you think he would terminate it when he found out someone could host his domain?

Re:well geez... (2, Interesting)

William Stein (259724) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903856)

I also just sent him a hosting offer. And, I'm a professor in the University
of Washington math department!

  -- William

Re:well geez... (1)

wikinerd (809585) | more than 7 years ago | (#16905026)

Me too, I just sent him an email offering free hosting.

15 years after his account closed (1)

OeLeWaPpErKe (412765) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903152)

His kids could takeover anytime now, no ?

Not the end of pine (2, Interesting)

SystematicPsycho (456042) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903170)

So.. why doesn't someone just take over and host it elsewhere?

It's not Open Source (4, Informative)

Crasoum (618885) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903342)

Because Pine is not GPL/BSD Licensed open source program, it is owned by the Washington University and they allow you to make local changes, distribute free of charge, or charge in a packaged distribution for the packaging of the programs (IE not for pine/pico), but you are not allowed to comercially sell it, and must apply a local tag (L) to the patches or versions you change and distribute. Source [washington.edu]

Granted it is a pretty open license, but UW Still owns it.

Re:It's not Open Source (1)

spiritraveller (641174) | more than 7 years ago | (#16904064)

Granted it is a pretty open license, but UW Still owns it.

FYI, if you write something under the GPL, you own it too.

If someone violates the GPL as to code you have released under the GPL, you may sue them for copyright violation.

Re:It's not Open Source (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16904390)

Washington University != University of Washington

Washington University [wustl.edu] is in Saint Louis
University of Washington [washington.edu] is in Seattle

Two separate schools.

The Project Is Not Dead... (4, Funny)

Mister Transistor (259842) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903182)

It's just pining for the Fijords!

Re:The Project Is Not Dead... (1)

Thondermonst (613766) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903506)

It's dead, I say, DEAD!

Well, I guess all that's left.. (5, Funny)

Channard (693317) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903210)

.. is to drag the tree outside and put it by the bin, and then hoover up the needles.

Question from a Pine user. (1)

pimpimpim (811140) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903228)

I read TFA, but there wasn't more info than in the summary here. Now I'm using pine for a lot of years now and I want to keep using it. Does anybody know the development of pine well enough to say if it is likely that someone else will take over the patches? I saw that a lot of patches from other people [washington.edu] are present, so it's not that just one guy was working on it.

And no, don't tell me what other program I should use instead!

Re:Question from a Pine user. (0, Redundant)

doti (966971) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903352)

Just use mutt [mutt.org] !

Re:Question from a Pine user. (1)

b0s0z0ku (752509) | more than 7 years ago | (#16904548)

Just use mutt!

The UI sucks and is so non-intuitive as compared to Pine that there's really no comparison.

-b.

Re:Question from a Pine user. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16904994)

because first having a select menu, where you can do different things and first have to do something before you see your mail folder is sooo intuitive.
Or having first to enable that you can see headers in some absurd long menu, before you can use the show headers shortcut to see the headers.
Because you can use no tab to complete filenames makes it so easy to use, and having to learn another broken editor is just the most intuitive way to go...

Re:Question from a Pine user. (1)

b0s0z0ku (752509) | more than 7 years ago | (#16905096)

because first having a select menu, where you can do different things and first have to do something before you see your mail folder is sooo intuitive.

The way that the select menu is set up is actually quite intuitive since a simple "enter-enter" after starting pine gets you to your inbox. Besides, who's to say that you're starting pine to read e-mail? You could be using it to compose a new message and not want to type the address on the command line. Besides, I'm used to it - I've been using it for 10 years, so it's easy for me :)

Or having first to enable that you can see headers in some absurd long menu, before you can use the show headers shortcut to see the headers.

Annoying but not tragic. Given a good sysadmin, he'd have fixed that with a custom pinerc or .pinerc in /etc/skel. Actually, it wouldn't be a bad idea to distribute pine with that feature turned on, but it really doesn't matter since it's a no-brainer to activate it for all users.

-b.

3 PICO (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16903244)

LONG LIVE PICO

A good think for us, I say (1)

junglee_iitk (651040) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903302)

This is a good thing for us I would say. An age old program is dying its death. Let it be...

Re:A good think for us, I say (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16903396)

Look, no-one is forcing you to use it. There are many, many happy Pine users. Choice is good. How would the death of a project be good for someone who doesn't use it anyway? - Besides, IT'SONLY A PATCH URL THAT'S GOING AWAY, PINE IS STILL THERE, AND WILL BE REPLACED BY ALPINE SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE!!

Sourceforge anyone? (1)

Lord Kano (13027) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903328)

I'm not familiar with the requirements for Sourceforge projects, but is there any reason why this project couldn't be hosted on Sourceforge?

LK

Re:Sourceforge anyone? (1)

quintesse (654840) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903344)

Not unless they change the license, SF requires the project to use one of the accepted OSS licenses and pine's license seems to be one of those IANAL-but-I-can-do-it-myself constructions.

Re:Sourceforge anyone? (1)

elvum (9344) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903424)

"Patches for pine" is a website that provides, um, patches for pine. It is not the pine project itself.

This is what non-OSS warns about (-1, Offtopic)

houghi (78078) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903340)

This is what non-OSS parties warn about. They will tell that with them it would never happen (not true) while OSS people always clain that somebody will take over the code.

Now I am not sure if Pine is completely OSS or not [wikipedia.org] .

It however shows the weakness of many projects. If a project is maintained by one preson and many, many, many of them are, and that person decides to do something else, it is often a halt to the project, even if teoreticaly it could be either forked or given to somebody else.

Oh well, I am already using mutt for a while now, so no loss for me.

Re:This is what non-OSS warns about (1)

elvum (9344) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903434)

I'm not sure how your comment relates to the closing down of this peripherally-related site distributing unofficial patches for pine. The pine project will continue regardless, and the various patches will presumably still be available from whoever wrote them, you'll just have to Google for them instead.

Re:This is what non-OSS warns about (1)

houghi (78078) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903534)

DOH! So next time I RTFA. (Nah!) :-D

Re:This is what non-OSS warns about (1)

pimpimpim (811140) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903812)

The TFA didn't say much more as the summary here, and left me wondering about the future of pine just like you did. This unofficial patches guy could've wrote a line saying 'note that pine will be developed as before', but he left it out, maybe he thought everyone would get that already...

Still I disagree with your main point. If a non-OSS developer team gets out of funds for some reason, the source code of their project dies with the project. In the case of open source, if a program is needed enough, it can and probably will be continued by someone else. If the program is lacking much need, someone probably already wrote a better alternative based on the same source. So OSS still kicks non-OSS's ass! ;)

Re:This is what non-OSS warns about (1)

Chelloveck (14643) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903944)

the closing down of this peripherally-related site distributing unofficial patches for pine.

Yup. This is hardly a disaster for the Pine community. I've been using Pine for at least 15 years now, and this is the first I've heard of this site. Looking it over, I don't see anything that I would personally find useful. There are about three dozen patches there, total. Not a single security fix among them. There are a few fixes for crash bugs which I've never encountered, and a bunch of patches adding or tweaking functionality. I'm sure some people will miss this site, but the vast majority of Pine users won't even notice.

OMG Bloated!!1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16903474)

I moved to Thunderbird years ago. I'm not very rich but I can easily afford the CPU horsepower needed by Thunderbird. For others there's always mutt.

Pine is just useless, and it should be abandoned.

Re:OMG Bloated!!1 (2, Interesting)

b0s0z0ku (752509) | more than 7 years ago | (#16904608)

I moved to Thunderbird years ago. I'm not very rich but I can easily afford the CPU horsepower needed by Thunderbird. For others there's always mutt.

But what if I don't want a GUI e-mail client? Sure I can afford the CPU usage, but I'd rather have something small that lives in an SSH window or can even be used on systems where X isn't installed. And most of the graphics sent to me in e-mails are either (a) spam or (b) crap like signatures. The other 1% I can view in webmail should I need to.

Pine is just useless, and it should be abandoned.

Useless how? It allows you to read e-mail and organize it into different folders. What else is needed? A decent search function would be nice, I'd admit, but it's nothing that can't be easily written. That's like saying a 1960s car is useless because it doesn't have power windows, A/C, or ABS brakes...

-b.

A shame, regardless of the status of the main proj (1)

no_such_user (196771) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903514)

I'm one of those crazies who uses Pine almost exclusively for my email. The patches site has some valuable additions for the app, and the closing of the site is a loss for the community. I hope the maintainer considers moving the site, even if it's not updated regularly, just for retention of the existing patches. Thanks!

Biznat3h (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16903518)

she h4d no fear

Pine is the best email client I've used (2, Insightful)

Wansu (846) | more than 7 years ago | (#16903526)



Since 93, I've used a dozen different email clients. In most cases, they were not of my chosing. When I have a choice, I use pine. I have yet to find a small, capable client with such a straightforward, intuitively designed, user friendly interface. I have high hopes of Alpine but mutt, elm and emacs' rmail are inferior to pine.

...and for Mutt on Windoze, here is a URL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16903620)

http://www.geocities.com/win32mutt/win32.html [geocities.com]
I know, I know...flame away

FRIsT PSOT (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16903788)

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