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Steve Chen Making China's Supercomputer Grid

CowboyNeal posted more than 7 years ago | from the teraflops-to-spare dept.

Supercomputing 128

nanotrends writes "Steve Chen was the principal designer of the Cray X-MP supercomputer. He recently created multi-teraflop blade based supercomputers for a Chinese company. He is now creating a supercomputer grid across China and he is working on a bio-supercomputer extension to human brains called THIRD-BRAIN. The THIRD-BRAIN project has significant 3 year and 5 year targets."

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128 comments

FTFS: (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16984558)

he is working on a bio-supercomputer extension to human brains called THIRD-BRAIN.
For some people this could be considered their first brain!

A Great Leap Forward in computing? (-1, Troll)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 7 years ago | (#16984604)

The THIRD-BRAIN project has significant 3 year and 5 year targets."

What peculiar terminology. Well, I certainly hope this plan is actually reasonable, unlike the Chinese Communist five-year planning, which just got millions killed [amazon.com] for nothing.

I certainly hope this plan is actually reasonable. (5, Insightful)

neoshroom (324937) | more than 7 years ago | (#16984804)

It isn't. From the article, the guy right now has nothing and plans to implement what the entire AI field has been trying to do for years and years. He doesn't mention any new or innovative techinques he is applying to the problem -- only a boatload of unfounded confidence.

Re:I certainly hope this plan is actually reasonab (2, Insightful)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 7 years ago | (#16986596)

``only a boatload of unfounded confidence.''

Well, isn't that what made America so great?

Re:A Great Leap Forward in computing? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16985510)

...unlike the Chinese Communist five-year planning, which just got millions killed for nothing.


As opposed to American Democratic four year non-plans which achieve nothing of historical note and abdicate national planning to corporations motivated only by profit for the shareholders?

Personally, I'd rather die for my country working on a plan of significance even if it fails, rather than live my life in the meaningless no mans land of corporate quarterly statistics.

Capitalist Democracy fosters national inaction, for if an elected body achieves something significant it only represents a risk to re-election and corporate support. The less a democratic government achieves, the more successful it is.

It is a horrifying future for humanity, and now that the meme of capitalism has spread to the formerly communist nations of Eastern Europe and Asia it represents a genuine threat to the future survival of the human race.

Re:A Great Leap Forward in computing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16985850)

Further... and to clarify:

Capitalism, by definition, requires infinite market growth. It just so happens however that the earth's resources are finite. The only way that capitalism can work long term is if we successfully develop interstellar travel. Unfortunately, this is extremely unlikely, as it requires national(global) planning of extreme significance (which capitalist democracy precludes) on the order of more than five years and is not initially going to be in the least profitable, therefore extremely unlikely to happen under global capitalism.

Capitalist democracy is a surefire recipe for the extinction of the human race, or as a best case, destruction of modern civilisation. Either way, global capitalist democracy as fostered by the United States will do far more harm to humanity than any communist five year plan could dream of.

The sad thing is that very few people realise this, and live blindly hurtling humanity toward destruction.

Intelligence, genius and foresight are not a boon to a person, but are a terrible curse. The feeling of helplessness and sorrow is overwhelming and crippling.

When a man lies he murders
some part of the world.
These are the pale deaths which
men miscall their lives.
All this I cannot bear
to witness any longer.
Cannot the kingdom of salvation
take me home?
- Cliff Burton, Metallica, ...And Justice For All, 1988

Re:A Great Leap Forward in computing? (1)

grimwell (141031) | more than 7 years ago | (#16986614)

Unfortunately, this is extremely unlikely, as it requires national(global) planning of extreme significance (which capitalist democracy precludes) on the order of more than five years and is not initially going to be in the least profitable, therefore extremely unlikely to happen under global capitalism.


Maybe ten years ago it required a national plan, today individuals & companies are making their way into space and space travel. Maybe you missed the story that the $20 million tickets to space are SOLD OUT until 2009 [yahoo.com] I think that demostrated market demand is what Virgin & that other guy are hoping to sell their space traveling ticket to.

As people aquire more wealth and free time, they will be able to fund more exotic items like space travel.

Yes, I agree capitalism has flaws... what system doesn't? Corruption is a difficult thing to counter, even in a system with checks&balances.

Intelligence, genius and foresight are not a boon to a person, but are a terrible curse. The feeling of helplessness and sorrow is overwhelming and crippling.


Ignorance is bliss.. or "I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa... not kicking & screaming like the passengers in his car."

Re:A Great Leap Forward in computing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16987738)

Maybe ten years ago it required a national plan, today individuals & companies are making their way into space and space travel. Maybe you missed the story that the $20 million tickets to space are SOLD OUT until 2009 [yahoo.com] I think that demostrated market demand is what Virgin & that other guy are hoping to sell their space traveling ticket to.


Interstellar travel is an entirely different matter, it is significantly more expensive and there is no return trip. Its one way, I'm pretty sure people will not pay for that. Its going to take certain kind of person to be willing to make the one way trip that may not even succeed, and will likely require genetic engineering of the human species. It will not be a matter of choice.

Launching people to extreme sub-orbital altitudes and calling it space-tourism is trivial. Comparing Virgin's self serving bullshit scheme to the magnitude of planning and expense required for interstellar travel is comical.

Re:A Great Leap Forward in computing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16987838)

ntelligence, genius and foresight are not a boon to a person, but are a terrible curse.
Just because you aren't cursed, doesn't mean you have to rub it in our faces...

Re:A Great Leap Forward in computing? (2, Funny)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 7 years ago | (#16988154)

Intelligence, genius and foresight are not a boon to a person, but are a terrible curse.

Consider yourself lucky to never have been afflicted with such a horrible condition :)

Re:A Great Leap Forward in computing? (1)

edward2020 (985450) | more than 7 years ago | (#16986066)

So I guess you would have been a proponent of things like the Chinese Cultural Revolution. Yeah, it was great. I hear there was even cannibalism. Or think of some of Stalin's wonderful 5-year plans. Also, the USA is not a democracy - it is a republic which uses democratic processes (I assume your comment of "four year non-plans" was referring to US presidential terms). I find it humorous that you feel the spread of capitalism to former communist areas is a "threat to the future survival [sic] of the human race." Are you serious? Certainly, capitalism has its flaws and will someday (hopefully) be replaced with a better system. But do you truly believe that communism is the answer? Why don't you look at the record of communism? Do you really believe that Stalin's artificial famines are better than capitalism's corporate farms? Instead of expressing your admittedly warranted anger at the US's policies in an ignorant fashion you should do some research so that you are able to add to the discussion/process in a reasonable and thought-out manner.

Re:A Great Leap Forward in computing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16987884)

So I guess you would have been a proponent of things like the Chinese Cultural Revolution. Yeah, it was great. I hear there was even cannibalism. Or think of some of Stalin's wonderful 5-year plans. Also, the USA is not a democracy - it is a republic which uses democratic processes (I assume your comment of "four year non-plans" was referring to US presidential terms). I find it humorous that you feel the spread of capitalism to former communist areas is a "threat to the future survival [sic] of the human race." Are you serious? Certainly, capitalism has its flaws and will someday (hopefully) be replaced with a better system. But do you truly believe that communism is the answer? Why don't you look at the record of communism? Do you really believe that Stalin's artificial famines are better than capitalism's corporate farms? Instead of expressing your admittedly warranted anger at the US's policies in an ignorant fashion you should do some research so that you are able to add to the discussion/process in a reasonable and thought-out manner.


Yes I am serious, capitalism poses a real and fatal threat to the future of humanity. Communism never has and never will pose such a threat.

This is the standard response when people are presented with the critical and fatal flaws of capitalism - attack communism.

Sorry, the fact remains that capitalism is unsustainable and will most likely destroy the human race or at a minimum modern civilisation. That is too hard for most Americans to accept, so they deny it and attack communism by pointing out its past failures.

You will notice that I do not suggest that communism is the answer, just that capitalism certainly is not.

The evil of capitalism is far more insidious, and far more detrimental to the future of the human race than communism ever could be.

You attitude is exactly the problem and is why the future of humanity is doomed.

P.S. You have misused 'sic'; it is used to indicate a spelling or grammatical error in quoted text, neither of which was present tin the text of mine you quoted. Perhaps your research, education and knee-jerk response of denial and attack could use a little more work than my well thought out and irrefutable argument.

Re:A Great Leap Forward in computing? (0, Offtopic)

khallow (566160) | more than 7 years ago | (#16986374)

As opposed to American Democratic four year non-plans which achieve nothing of historical note and abdicate national planning to corporations motivated only by profit for the shareholders?

Might I add that this abdication has turned out to be wildly successful? Most things should be turned over to busiensses (not just corporations which are but a category of private enterprise). I don't need a "four year plan" to live my life.

Personally, I'd rather die for my country working on a plan of significance even if it fails, rather than live my life in the meaningless no mans land of corporate quarterly statistics.

Get a job that you like even if it's at a non-profit rather than an evil corporation. Do something useful with your life. It's your choice anyway.

It is a horrifying future for humanity, and now that the meme of capitalism has spread to the formerly communist nations of Eastern Europe and Asia it represents a genuine threat to the future survival of the human race.

Right. Some aspects of this "horrifying future": end to poverty, the technology to address things like global warming, and an end to wars like those of the 20th Century. Keep it coming.

Re:A Great Leap Forward in computing? (2, Insightful)

An Onerous Coward (222037) | more than 7 years ago | (#16986980)

Might I add that this abdication has turned out to be wildly successful?
Not universally. In health care, our mostly private system is the most expensive in the world, yet we have about the same life expectancy as Cuba (with a higher infant mortality rate). In agriculture, we overproduce and overconsume things that are frankly not good for us. Our food is overprocessed, our diets too high in lard and sugar, and we eat far more than is healthy (in no small part thanks to the unceasing, mind-warping advertisements plastered on every visible surface in our country).

This is in no small part due to government agricultural subsidies, but the fact that these subsidies continue despite the fact that they actively undermine our health has to say something about the power our government grants business.

Meanwhile, the wages of the poorest 40% of Americans have hardly budged since the 1970s, while the richest 1% of Americans now own about half the wealth in this country. Is that the sort of economy anyone would plan, or anyone would ask for? Besides the aforementioned 1%, I mean.

In a way, we have the worst sort of mix of private and public: a government which allows business to write its rules. Capitalism is no more a panacea than communism. Global capitalism isn't all prosperity and health and flat-screen TVs; it also brings wage arbitrage, huge wealth inequalities, unsustainable overconsumption, sweatshop labor, and a host of other problems. In your rush to defend the good aspects of the free market, you shouldn't ignore its pitfalls and limitations.

Re:A Great Leap Forward in computing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16988046)

Might I add that this abdication has turned out to be wildly successful? Most things should be turned over to busiensses (not just corporations which are but a category of private enterprise). I don't need a "four year plan" to live my life.

Get a job that you like even if it's at a non-profit rather than an evil corporation. Do something useful with your life. It's your choice anyway.

Right. Some aspects of this "horrifying future": end to poverty, the technology to address things like global warming, and an end to wars like those of the 20th Century. Keep it coming.


You missed the point - capitalism is the threat to the future of humanity. It is what virtually guarantees that global warming will exterminate us. If not that, then some other environmental disaster which will result from the unbelievably naive idea that the market can grow indefinitely on a finite resource base. As long as we do not have successful interstellar colonization, capitalism is irresponsible and a recipe for disaster. By definition capitalism is incapable of achieving successful interstellar colonization.

End to poverty? Clearly you do not understand how capitalism works. Capitalism requires poverty to work.

Capitalism as a solution to global warming? Laughable. Show me the profit in that.

And end to wars like those of the 20th century? Just wait, you have not seen anything yet. Capitalism is the perfect machine for war.

The problem with the abdication of plans for humanity to corporations governed by the principles of capitalism, is that they are not responsible and accountable to the people, they can hide behind puppet governments giving the people the illusion of control over their nation and the future of humanity. Sorry, but the "invisible hand" is not adequate for this juncture in history, we need planning with intelligence behind it, not the haphazard and irresponsible philosophy of the market.

I have thought this through completely over decades, capitalism is fatally flawed and extremely dangerous to the future of humanity. You'd think by now I would have learned that it is futile to try and convince people of that, but every so often my sense of responsibility and altruism compels me to point it out once again, perhaps some people will eventually get it. If not, then at least I have tried.

Is there.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16984616)

Is there a downloadable Vorbcast of this?

Use of GPUs or PS3 chips? (1)

Salvance (1014001) | more than 7 years ago | (#16984692)

I wonder if anyone has tried adding a bunch of high performance GPU chips into the mix (e.g. NVidia or ATI's can run at close to 1 TFlop), or hook together a bunch of PS3 Cell chips? I realize these are more specialized, but they are SO fast that augmenting classic commodity chips with these specialized chips seems like it could greatly boost performance.

Re:Use of GPUs or PS3 chips? (1)

Renfield Spiffioso (982789) | more than 7 years ago | (#16985004)

Yes, that's in progress. [hpcwire.com]

Re:Use of GPUs or PS3 chips? (1)

AtomicSushi (444823) | more than 7 years ago | (#16985398)

I think its safe to say nearly every major semiconductor company is toying with the idea of massive parallelism via small processors for a variety of tasks.

frikken traitors (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16984694)

The stupid government makes all this noise about islamics. Heck with that, they need to crack down on tech transfer to china, THEY are the big threat to everyone else on the planet this century. The US and western europe has made a BIG mistake transferring all this tech to china. They are very close now to not needing any more, all they will need is raw materials because their alternative and internal markets are big enough..then watch the dollar and euro BOTH collapse. They are already cooling it on rebuying more dollars, they have capped at one trillion in *cash* just in dollars they are sitting on. We just had last week a chinese sub surface five miles from a carrier, and it was undetected before it surfaced.

This is called a clue.

Anyway, this chen bozo, that is some creepy shit, and I think the last place we want human/machine hybrids is in mainland china, they have zero regards for human life, none. Or other animal life for that matter, they are culturally just a very cruel people (sorry, but it is true, I call it like I see it).

Re:frikken traitors (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16984814)

The US and western europe has made a BIG mistake transferring all this tech to china. They are very close now to not needing any more, all they will need is raw materials because their alternative and internal markets are big enough..then watch the dollar and euro BOTH collapse.

OMG!!!

Someone over than The West having wealth!!!

Sacré Bleu!

Aren't there international laws against this or something?

Let's nuke the bastards back to the stone age!

Re:frikken traitors (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16985014)

Hahahahaha, bravo! :-)

frikken friends (3, Interesting)

imkow (1021759) | more than 7 years ago | (#16984930)

Put yourself together. Chinese people are not eating you, not without you cooked in our way.(see Chinese Food).

Seriously a diesel submaine can do nothing to endanger a carrier fleet, if not making itself a firework. and remember, american's claws has alreay been on our door in Taiwan Strait, in East sea, in Japan, in South Korea and everywhere asian. Back few years ago, it's an american spy plane which literally hit down a Chinese fight jet just few koilmeters away from China's coast. it's you, americans always want to war with someone, not Chinese.

Talking about human life, yes, human resource is inexpensive here in contrast to other part of the planet. it's just because of the number we got,it's not about the value we hold towards the human life. honestly if any possible, i hope we can move .5 billion of our folks to your neighborhood, to make the human resource, the human right, and the population, of both countries, even. this could be an idea to ease your nerve.

Re:frikken friends (1)

b4stard (893180) | more than 7 years ago | (#16985260)

what?

Re:frikken friends (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16987016)


Please get a grip on reality. We Chinese wouldn't eat you (well, at least, not without some serious treatment from a Canton master chef [wikipedia.org] ).

Speaking seriously, the most dangerous thing a Chinese diesel submarine can be to a carrier fleet, is a firework. We've already seen America's claws raking over our backdoor; in the Strait of Taiwan, in the East China sea, in Japan, in South Korea and everywhere in Asia. Just a few years back an American spy plane literally rammed a Chinese fighter jet down just few kilometers from China's coast. It's you, the Americans who always want war with someone, not us the Chinese.

On the subject of human life; yes, it's true people's lives are cheap here compared to other parts of the planet. It's just because we have so many people, not because we value life less. Honestly if it were possible, I wish we could move half a billion of our folks to your neighborhood, to make the reserves of people, the human rights, and the population, of both countries, even. Perhaps this idea would calm your nerves?



There; with a little interpretation I give you a "translation". I don't think he was at all difficult to understand. Perhaps you can write for him in Chinese better than he writes in English? Now perhaps we can debate on the merits (or not :-) of what he says? To be honest I think that China has better weapon systems than just it's submarines; right? I've certainly read (schneier.com) about China specifically developing anti-carrier group and anti-satellite weapons.

Re:frikken friends (2, Informative)

Pengo (28814) | more than 7 years ago | (#16985374)

"Back few years ago, it's an american spy plane which literally hit down a Chinese fight jet just few koilmeters away from China's coast."

You really believe that a prop-based spy plan intentionally HIT a fighter-jet out of the sky?? Give me a break. Your pilot got reckless in trying to coarse them away from your air-space. I'm not saying that spy plane should of been there to begin with, but I find it mildly amusing, and more than disturbing, that you buy into your ministry of informations claims that the evil Americans knocked their fighter jet out of the sky.

Out of respect to the dead, I won't rant on how terrible of a pilot of the Chinese fighter pilot must of been if that truly was the case.

Re:frikken friends (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16985916)

A diesel sub can carry Soviet-designed supersonic torpedoes, which were given to the Chicom navy, that hit before they can be detected by passive or active sonar, and can carry atomic warheads, taking out the entire carrier group.

The South China Sea is an international water, not Red Guards Terrorist territory.

Formosa and the Pescatores are US territory under international law, and have NEVER been under the yoke of the Red Guards.

They are NOT Chicom territory.

Neither are the Phillipines, Japan, or South Korea part of Communist China, and Manchuria, Tibet, and East Turkmenistan are not part of Communist China, either, just occupied by Maoist terrorist groups (which are also trying to take over Nepal and Bhutan).

The international community must resist the hegemonic expansionist desires of the Red Guard's terrorists who murdered more people than any other organization in the 20th century. Probably more than 50 million people. Hitler could only dream of such carnage.

diesel-electrics actually quite capable (1)

yppiz (574466) | more than 7 years ago | (#16986090)

Actually, diesel-electrics are said to be much quieter and harder to detect than nuclear submarines. I remember reading a few years ago that an Australian diesel-electric, in exercises, was took out the carrier in a carrier group.

Ah, here it is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collins_class_submari ne [wikipedia.org]

In a 2003 joint naval exercise, three Collins-class submarines reportedly "sank" two American Los Angeles class attack submarines and a US aircraft carrier, supporting the claims of defect resolution and combat effectiveness

Here's a description of the US/Australian exercise: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/09/23/10640 82993693.html [theage.com.au]

--Pat

Re:frikken friends (2)

Fear the Clam (230933) | more than 7 years ago | (#16987520)

Talking about human life, yes, human resource is inexpensive here in contrast to other part of the planet. it's just because of the number we got,it's not about the value we hold towards the human life.


If large numbers are such a problem maybe the Chinese government should just split the country into four. Perhaps then human life in each of those new nations would be considered as "valuable" as it is in the United States. Well, okay, that was a poor example. How about splitting China into 40 countries, each of which values its citizens as much as Canada does?

Re:frikken traitors (2, Interesting)

Antiocheian (859870) | more than 7 years ago | (#16985212)

How come that China is a threat to anyone in this planet?

Have the nuked anyone?

Have they attacked defenseless poor countries?

Have they messed up other countries causing civil wars?

Re:frikken traitors (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16985790)

"Have they attacked defenseless poor countries?"

- One down, two to go.

Re:frikken traitors (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16986036)

How come that China is a threat to anyone in this planet?

China is to South East Asia where the United States is to the Middle East. They have the world's largest standing army, they have been blustering towards Taiwan for years. They have invaded Vietnam, after the Americans did, for even lesser reasons.

Have the nuked anyone?

No, but they have had a nuclear weapons program for 50 years now.

Have they attacked defenseless poor countries?

See Vietnam after the American involvement. See Tibet.

Have they messed up other countries causing civil wars?

See Laos. See China's various exports in arms to other third world counties. They have many a good motivations to keep the conflict brewing.

My take on China, and I'm from there, is that they would be in the United States position as a world bully if they had the technological know how to do so. They have been historically a commanding presence for thousands of years within the region since the time of the Yellow Emperor. It is culturally inherent that daughter states surround the main country, and they have been as prolific as the romans in securing land and resources that they deem fit. The only reason why anyone would want China to do well is to counteract the success of the Americans in a world wide tug of war. For a peace like that to succeed, we have to have a third party overseeing the competition, and there isn't one big enough to knock these two around. The UN can't do it, the World Banks won't do it, and there is nothing stopping the competition's fallout from harming innocent bystanders. If not for the US Navy off the Tokyo sea and the numerous naval and air force bases in the Philippines and South Korea, I don't see China playing nice for long. Your average citizen of the populace in China is entitled to less education in ethics, they have been in a cultural and spiritual void since the 5 year plans and the Cultural revolution, which has made the average citizen all the more world-ignorant.

I grew up knowing that there are Chinese people I respect. There are words of chinese thinkers that I would recite to my children as they come into understanding. I'm proud to call myself Chinese and I do love my country, but I absolutely detest the government that is a cancer upon the land now, and I only wish that the powers that keep them in check, continue to do so.

Re:frikken traitors (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16987522)

Have they attacked defenseless poor countries?

China attacked and took over Tibet. The Dalai Lama has been exiled from his own country. They attacked a poor neighbor Tibet and annexed them and treated them as a Chinese province. Tibet as a nation no longer exists.

China has also provided aid to both the Vietnamese and the North Koreans. So they have indirectly caused civil wars and helped spread communism. China is also a threat to Taiwanese independence and security.

Re:frikken traitors (2, Funny)

Ardavan1367 (888194) | more than 7 years ago | (#16988142)

wtf? for the last time, America = Liberalism. drop your guns or die! why cant anyone understand that?! If all the armies in the world would accept this do you think there would be any more war? no because the age of cannibalism is OVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER

Re:frikken traitors (1)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 7 years ago | (#16988200)

(sorry, but it is true, I call it like I see it)

Maybe a trip to the optometrist is in order?

grid of China (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16984696)

>He is now creating a supercomputer grid across China

Can you see it from space?

Re:grid of China (1)

sisinka (916373) | more than 7 years ago | (#16987210)

not that you could see it, but to me it seems like China wants to build its own internet, which would solve their "problems" with free speech world and The Great Firewall of China.
In Chen's words:
When I have an Integral Grid, I can run Video-on-Demand and IPTV applications on one side of the Grid, and healthcare, education or financial services on the other side. After midnight, the whole Grid can be running Weather Forecasting.

Brains, zombies (1)

HiggsBison (678319) | more than 7 years ago | (#16984726)

Brains. Right. Just what some bot-master will want to send his zombies after.

Global Mind! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16984768)

I thought the Noosphere http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noosphere/ [wikipedia.org] would awaken us all and speak in the English language. I'd better learn Chinese now :)

Strange... (1)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 7 years ago | (#16984792)

Why is nobody commenting about this THIRD BRAIN thing ? This is the first time I hear about it, and the first time I hear about a serious government funded initiative for a brain-machine interface...

Re:Strange... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16985418)

All the commenters were abducted and their comments deleted from /. I'd keep my mouth shut if I were you.

SECOND BRAIN (2, Funny)

EraserMouseMan (847479) | more than 7 years ago | (#16986276)

I'm surprised that nobody's asked about why there's no mention of a SECOND BRAIN? Has china already developed that one? Or are they just skipping a brain?

Re:SECOND BRAIN (1)

salimma (115327) | more than 7 years ago | (#16987120)

Presumably the second brain is the electronic computer.

Re:SECOND BRAIN (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16987762)

Perhaps they're saying "reptile brain, first, big human blob thingy on top of it, second, cool computer on top of blob, third"

Re:SECOND BRAIN (1)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 7 years ago | (#16988282)

It was never released. Was there ever a Windows 2.0?...

...

...

D'oh! [guidebookgallery.org]

Re:SECOND BRAIN (1)

BiggerIsBetter (682164) | more than 7 years ago | (#16988332)

Or are they just skipping a brain?

No, they're just saying that it's a male thing.

The YouTube guy? (0, Offtopic)

BillGodfrey (127667) | more than 7 years ago | (#16984800)

I guess he's found something to do with Google's money.

Re:The YouTube guy? (2, Interesting)

jcarkeys (925469) | more than 7 years ago | (#16984838)

Different guys.

ethics (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16984858)

Steven Chen is a slimebag. First, he is working to help the Chinese government develop
technology with skills he learned at Cray. This is a transfer of US technical skills to the Chinese militaty and mirrors Chinese industrial espionage. Chen is helping support a communist state that is killing people in Tibet and has the humanitarian aims of a dictator like Sadam Husein and supports torture. Steven Chen just took his skills to China to help the Chinese government which kills and interns millions in Stallinist style concentration camps and helped Pakistan and North Korea get an Atomic bomb. Those high tech computers he's building are being used to make better nuclear weapons. Steven Chen's ethics are on the level of a street urchin. Notice how the article mentions supercomputer applications except nuclear weapons which is one application that really uses supercomputers. Steven Chen was probably a Chinese plant though to take his knowledge back to China after he worked at Cray.

There is also evidence the Chinese reverse engineered a Cray. Chen is no different from Chinese technicians trying to steal chip designs and fly back to China after working at an American company and the blueprints.

China also supports widespread censorship of the internet and press. Freedom of speech does not exist in China. Steven Chen is promoting and supporting a China where freedom of speech
doesn't exist and an e-mail can get you 10 years. http://takeaction.amnestyusa.org/siteapps/advocacy /index.aspx?c=goJTI0OvElH&b=953489&template=x.ascx &action=5385 [amnestyusa.org]

China is also militaristic and destabilizes Asia with ambitions of power. China wants to takeover Taiwan either by military force or politically. Any attempts to declare Taiwan a separate and autonomous country are met by Chinese government attacks and threats of reprisal against the US no less. In fact Chinese influence reaches to even the hidden corridors of the White House. China wants to add Taiwan to it's territories militarily or by any other means.

Way to go Steve. Help out a corrupt Chinese government. Maybe the Dalai Lama can congratulate you.
At least Steven Chen could be working in the west and supporting economic and political reforms in China but he's doing the opposite. Steven Chen should be proud that he's helping support democracy in China by working in a corrupt and unreformed system where economic reforms do not encourage government reforms.

Re:ethics (1)

imsabbel (611519) | more than 7 years ago | (#16984960)

You mean the same Dalai Lama who used to have a middle-age style feudalism on the back of the peasents back when Tibet was still a sovereign nation?

Well, turnabout hurts, but nobody cries when the US sucks the brains out of international academics, even though they armed slimebags like hussein, and destabilized whole continents (how many dictators own their job the cia?).

That nothwithstanding, the guy really is a blowbag, and his claims are void of any kind of reason, or techological background.

Haha. Not funny. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16984966)

s/China/US/
s/communist/capitalist/
s/Tibet/Iraq/

You cannot even talk about their dumb leaders after electing Bush.

Maybe someone comes up with moral enough to make speeches. This is not America, though.

Logical Falacies 101 (1)

LindseyJ (983603) | more than 7 years ago | (#16985228)

The colour of that kettle has nothing to do with the pot.

Keep thinking that every other country can do whatever they want because you think the US is evil, though. I'm sure someday you'll see how much of a complete tool you are. Too bad it will probably take a nuke and several tens of thousands of innocent lives first.

Re:Logical Falacies 101 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16986720)

You cannot kill the entire world because it disagrees with you, being stronger does not make you right.

Some day you will have to face your responsibilities. Being patriot includes accepting the consequences of your country's mistakes. And fixing these mistakes.

Re:Logical Falacies 101 (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 7 years ago | (#16986790)

But it does debunk the argument that it's bad to work for such a kettle. Or at least worse than working for the pot.

Re:Haha. Not funny. (1)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 7 years ago | (#16988212)

You, of course, assume that your parent voted Bush. I'm neither the pot nor kettle--both Chinaco and Bushco suck. I'm the fracking lightbulb!

Re:ethics (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16984970)

Blah, blah, blah, way to spew Bushian talking points.

China is an economic engine in the pacific rim, its chief stabilizing power, and is much more open that the Slashdot crowd would like to admit. Have you ever been there? I suggest you go.

Re:ethics (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16985674)

Are you kidding? Bush has always supported more trade and better relations with China.

Moron.

Re:ethics (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16987626)

I suggest you live in China and speak out against the Chinese government. Then maybe you could understand how China treats disidents and tolerates free speech as long as you speak the party line. Just ask how all the Chinese political prisoners and the 10 to 15 thousand people executed under the death sentence each year according to Amnesty international. http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/china/index.do [amnestyusa.org]

Re:ethics (1)

the_humeister (922869) | more than 7 years ago | (#16985006)

How the hell did this get moderated up?

China also supports widespread censorship of the internet and press. Freedom of speech does not exist in China. Steven Chen is promoting and supporting a China where freedom of speech
doesn't exist and an e-mail can get you 10 years.


Guess who also supports them? Cisco, Yahoo, Microsoft, Google, IBM, etc...

There is also evidence the Chinese reverse engineered a Cray. Chen is no different from Chinese technicians trying to steal chip designs and fly back to China after working at an American company and the blueprints.


It's also quoted in the article that the guy desigend some of Cray's supercomputers. So who's stealing from who?

Re:ethics (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16986792)

He's a traitor. He's taken technology developed by America (and funded in a large part by tax dollars, since that's who bought Crays), and is giving it to the communists.

Re:ethics (1)

Hubbell (850646) | more than 7 years ago | (#16985238)

"Killing people in tibet" I bet you're one of those people who is all 'reinstate the Dalai Lama and give the people back blahblahblah' For the record, the Dalai Lama, like a lot of other people heralded as amazing and do no evil (Mother Theresa stands out here for sure), is/was a scumbag. The Dalai Lama and his group have always kept the Tibetan people poor/in chains while they live a priveleged life.

Re:ethics (2, Funny)

ATMD (986401) | more than 7 years ago | (#16985394)

Dammit, as soon as I run out of mod points.

MOD PARENT UP; INFORMATIVE/INTERESTING.

I personally had no idea that a lot of the stuff mentioned there was still going on inside China. I mean, torture, concentration camps? WTF?

Mod parent up you cocksucking trolls! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16985570)

China's leaders ahve even RECENTLY stated their eventual goal to "defeat America". How is criticizing China "Bushian". I don't give a fat fuck what sort of economic engine they are. There's money to be made so we support an outdated corrupt regime? Fuck the geek community. You are all bought and sold by the tech world. Scumbags.

Difficult to take 3rd brain seriously (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16984874)

It seems as though the team is working primarily on the number crunching power at the moment - which is all good and well. But when queried about the AI aspect, he says that they will just have to research it, even after the interviewer points out many other people have been working on this. I think he greatly underestimates the problem! Saying that all other AI researchers have not had an integral approach is a bit lacking as an answer to me.

Re:Difficult to take 3rd brain seriously (2, Insightful)

KillerCow (213458) | more than 7 years ago | (#16986304)

He is now creating a supercomputer grid across China and he is working on a bio-supercomputer extension to human brains called THIRD-BRAIN.


But when queried about the AI aspect, he says that they will just have to research it, even after the interviewer points out many other people have been working on this. I think he greatly underestimates the problem! Saying that all other AI researchers have not had an integral approach is a bit lacking as an answer to me.


It's pure hubris. Even if he does make some AI breakthrough (unlikely), he may find that his shiny new grid is not suited to its implementation. It may not clique well. He has a system (a grid) and is trying to apply it to a known problem (AI). It's a lofty and noble goal, but it isn't the best way to solve a problem. Usually, it's a good idea to have your algorithms and systems though out (or at least an idea of what they are) before starting implementation.

Fortunately for him though, he has a nice preexisting model that he can copy the structure of. Our brains are distributed, and are cliqued (from my understanding). So building a grid and trying to apply it to AI is not a terrible idea.

At least the Chinese will have a nice super-grid to do weapons research on in the mean time.

One brain in your head, one in your pants (2, Insightful)

macadamia_harold (947445) | more than 7 years ago | (#16984954)

and he is working on a bio-supercomputer extension to human brains called THIRD-BRAIN. The THIRD-BRAIN project has significant 3 year and 5 year targets.

Why call it Third Brain? I'm not terribly familiar with Anatomy, but I thought humans only had one brain. (Well, unless you're a guy. Then you've got an extra one in your pants that does most of the thinking)

Re:One brain in your head, one in your pants (1)

Jorrit (19549) | more than 7 years ago | (#16985080)

We actually have two brains. One called 'small brain' (at least in Dutch it is called like that. I hope it translates to english directly) which is responsible for basic primitive operations like breathing and such and then the main part which is responsible for cognitive operations.

Greetings,

Re:One brain in your head, one in your pants (1)

I Like Pudding (323363) | more than 7 years ago | (#16985292)

We actually have two brains. One called 'small brain' (at least in Dutch it is called like that. I hope it translates to english directly)

I believe the English translation would be "penis"

Re:One brain in your head, one in your pants (1)

Ididerus (898803) | more than 7 years ago | (#16985430)

I think thats called medulla oblongata, no?

Re:One brain in your head, one in your pants (1)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 7 years ago | (#16988232)

He's talking about either that or the cerebellum.

Re:One brain in your head, one in your pants (1)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 7 years ago | (#16985132)

According to TFA

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebellum [wikipedia.org]
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebrum [wikipedia.org]
3. Third Brain

Re:One brain in your head, one in your pants (1)

Gwwfps (912993) | more than 7 years ago | (#16986906)

In Chinese, the cerebrum can be literally translated as the "greater brain", while the cerebellum is called the "lesser brain". That's probably where the name came from.

Re:One brain in your head, one in your pants (1)

msobkow (48369) | more than 7 years ago | (#16988098)

I believe they are talking about a philosophical model, treating a national compute infrastructure as a synthetic memory extension, not a wetwired biological interface. It's a colourful metaphore, not a literal description.

Another way of viewing the Third Brain project might be the application of biological healing and load balancing aspects to a compute fabric. Muscles strengthen with use, the grid increases the measured capacity with need. Stop using them, and the proteins get reabsorbed and reallocated, causing the muscles to weaken and shrink.

IBM has been doing similar work for their mainframes, Sun has their system monitoring and dynamic configuration hooks, so does HP, and I would guess, Microsoft. This is just building out another layer of management infrastructure, treating distributed clusters and nodes as a national or international compute fabric. I would presume that the major vendors use their own technologies to manage their international operations, providing a real-life proof-of-concept deployment to show customers their implementations work.

China treating it as a national rather than corporate focus is just one of those little mindset/cultural differences.

Computing described as biology, nothing more.

Primeur: I can understand that technically: if you have a capability machine you can run capacity jobs, too. But it is more expensive than using a capacity machine. Is that true with your machine, too?

Steve Chen:Not necessarily. That is why we have a single cost-effective but very balanced architecture that can suit intensive I/O, or intensive data, or intensive computation: we can decompose the system anyway we want. So when we detect, for instance, that we need to do more capacity or we need more capability from the continuous self-learning intelligent analysis, we just bring those pieces together when we need them. When your application is running on the system we are learning. It is just like a Brain. But we need a lot of middleware to do that, linked to built-in hardware monitoring.

Primeur: Is the machine that you have out already doing that?

Steve Chen:To some extent it does, but not to the higher levels. In the lower level it does so statically, not yet dynamically. So, if you say, "Today I want to partition the machine in three different ways with so many processors, so many disks, etc.", we can do it. Yet, to reach the higher levels, we need more intelligence to be integrated into the system. We need machine learning, human-machine interaction, artificial intelligence, intelligent search and pattern recognition.

Primeur: Who is working on these new parts? Is that done in a company, or in a project?

Steve Chen:In a company based in the USA and China, called HCOM, which has established the"THIRD-BRAIN Research Institute"where the core development is done. It is a long term and international effort to design a new generation of Supercomputers beyond Petaflop/s. The overall sponsoring company is calledAHA!Ventures based in the USA. They are the one providing the funding as well as collaborating on the development and deployment of large-scaleIntegral Gridprojects worldwide.

Scaling? (1)

Alky_A (1015285) | more than 7 years ago | (#16984980)

I'm confused. He says it might be able to scale to 100 Tflop/s then says they expect to scale to 250 Tflop/s by next year.

Strange... (2, Insightful)

Shaltenn (1031884) | more than 7 years ago | (#16984992)

Strange... Call me crazy, but this reeks of Cyber-brains from Ghost in the Shell. XP

Re:Strange... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16985642)

You will not find a corps, for I have never possessed a body....

Test run takes 7.5 million years... (2, Funny)

Woogiemonger (628172) | more than 7 years ago | (#16985078)

Result = 42

Re:Test run takes 7.5 million years... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16985204)

Gotta love prolog. Or maybe you don't ...

Re:Test run takes 7.5 million years... (1)

daverabbitz (468967) | more than 7 years ago | (#16985854)

Uhm, what.

I'm pretty sure this was a reference to The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.

THIRD brain? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16985126)

"...he is working on a bio-supercomputer extension to human brains called THIRD-BRAIN."

Now I'm no mathematician, but aren't we missing one here? Where's the second brain?

Bonus mod-points for anyone replying "in my pants" etc. etc.

Re:THIRD brain? (1)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 7 years ago | (#16988250)

The Cerebellum and the Cerebrum are the first two--in Latin(and in translation to most other languages), the words mean "big brain" and "small brain", although with a slight loss of accuracy.

Third Brain?!?! (2, Funny)

itz2000 (1027660) | more than 7 years ago | (#16985176)

"He is now creating a supercomputer grid across China and he is working on a bio-supercomputer extension to human brains called THIRD-BRAIN"

Why did you jump from 1st brain to 3rd brain? WHERE IS THE 2nd BRAIN?

someone stole the 2nd brain! call 9-1-1!

He's building it (3, Funny)

c0nst (655115) | more than 7 years ago | (#16985184)

.. so that he can run Vista

Re:He's building it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16985350)

I laughed so hard when I read this one! :)

scoop (1)

thirdbase (1031888) | more than 7 years ago | (#16985264)

I've got the first shot of THIRDBRAIN http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ageofsteel.jpg [wikipedia.org]

Re:scoop (1)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 7 years ago | (#16988268)

That's the Cybercontroller, which was in England and not China(although there were Cybermen in China, as they were in all seven continents)

The usual BS.... (1)

gweihir (88907) | more than 7 years ago | (#16985382)

A supercomputer is not better, because it is distributed. In fact distributed computing power is useless except for some very specific problems. All this "gird" nonsense does not solve a real problem, but serves to keep initiatives alive that were dead a decade ago when they were started.

An this nonsense about extending the human brain? Have we not heard enough of this in the last 30 years or so? Having ''significant goals'' will not prevent this from being another case of lying to the public....

Re:The usual BS.... (1)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 7 years ago | (#16986620)

``In fact distributed computing power is useless except for some very specific problems. All this "gird" nonsense does not solve a real problem, but serves to keep initiatives alive that were dead a decade ago when they were started.''

Seems to me that botnets, spamming, and DDoS attacks are alive and kicking.

mod do3n (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16985424)

Say I'm 4ac4ing comprehensive Eyes on the real

New lies for old money (1)

billcopc (196330) | more than 7 years ago | (#16985668)

Back in the day we called it "Y2K consulting", today it's "Supercomputer grid consulting". The main difference is this guy has friends in the business whose products he will be pushing for a nice kickback, in addition to his hourly fee.

Any twit can write "Qty: 1000" next to a system order when someone else is footing the bill.

third-brain? we already have that... (1)

Agram (721220) | more than 7 years ago | (#16985714)

...and from the looks of it, it appears to make people go insane... http://www.threebrain.com/ [threebrain.com]

Frist p*sOt (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16986150)

What's that smell? (1)

surfcow (169572) | more than 7 years ago | (#16986414)

> "bio-supercomputer extension to human brains"

Um... I'm from dairy country, and have learned to identify bullshit quite accurately.

Especially when a cow-pie crawls up your leg and bites you on the ass.

Sir, I have been bitten.

It's Nice to Know (1)

SueAnnSueAnn (998877) | more than 7 years ago | (#16986426)

It's nice to know Chen is selling out to our mortal enemy.
Just like Prescott Bush supporting the NATZIs during WW2.

That's it give the Chinese military all of our technology They own us anyway.

Now those are Real Americans.
Land of the Sheep
Home of the Slaves

Thank You for Shopping at Wal*Mart.

Sue
When it's Time
It's Time
And
It may be sooner then you think.

"our technology"? (1)

totalctrl (974993) | more than 7 years ago | (#16986832)

he designed the Cray XMP in US, now the one he worked on in China is a new design.

i think what you meant should be "his technology"...

Re:"our technology"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#16987084)

No, its Cray's technology. He had access to Cray's technical resources and Cray engineers in the process.

Re:"our technology"? (1)

SueAnnSueAnn (998877) | more than 7 years ago | (#16987292)

I guess you don't get it
He acquired all his skills in the US.
Do you think he should be using them to further our mortal emery?

30 years ago, he would be tried for treason.
He should be tried for treason now.
That kind of technology is not exportable.

I guess you kids don't understand what National Security means.

Sue

When it's time
It's time
And
It may be sooner then you think.

Third Brain... (1)

FlyingSquidStudios (1031284) | more than 7 years ago | (#16986704)

Sounds great! Who's going to be the first sucker- er- I mean brave volunteer to beta test it?

And I shall call it... (1)

Shadyman (939863) | more than 7 years ago | (#16986940)

They're going to call it HAL 9000, right?
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