Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

cancel ×

440 comments

No full time developers (5, Funny)

mnmn (145599) | more than 7 years ago | (#17024778)

So then are they providing twice as many part-time developers?

Come to think of it, is there such a thing as part-time developers?

salt/wound? (5, Funny)

Russ Nelson (33911) | more than 7 years ago | (#17024780)

Why do I detect the feeling of salt poured into an open wound?

Re:salt/wound? (5, Insightful)

penguinrenegade (651460) | more than 7 years ago | (#17024968)

Looks like Microsoft money helps ward off competing developers as well. Novell sold out - plain and simple.

Novell could have gotten large cash infusions, but instead they let Microsoft intimidate them. This is just plain wrong.

It's pretty obvious what happened from the timing of the event. I'm certain we'll see more of this in the future.

Apparently it was easier for Microsoft to buy off Novell than to fund SCO.

Re:salt/wound? (3, Insightful)

leonmergen (807379) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025238)

It's pretty obvious what happened from the timing of the event.

Explain to me then, why is it so obvious and not just some random conspiracy theory ?

Re:salt/wound? (4, Insightful)

drDugan (219551) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025454)

to everyone: it's about connections, stupid. connections (communication) between people is the most important thing we do, and it is why the Internet is important.

Exchange is the MS communications gateway, allowing people to connect on MS the proprietary platform with the single most popular online communication tool.

An open source alternative to Exchange is the single most important project the open source community could develop to allow IT managers to migrate away from Microsoft.

Now, only days after a deal between MS and Novell, the open source project to build an exchange alternative is hurt by Novell removing support.

No theories needed here, just look at the facts.

Oh, come on (5, Informative)

everphilski (877346) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025756)

the open source project to build an exchange alternative Theres like, 5 different projects trying to achieve the Holy Grail of replacing Exchange. And Hula was far from the leader of the pack.

Re:salt/wound? (1)

foobsr (693224) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025244)

Just to say that I follow your arguments (as there seem to be only few around who get the picture).

CC.

Coincidence? I think not (4, Insightful)

dkleinsc (563838) | more than 7 years ago | (#17024784)

Hmm, I wonder if Microsoft had anything to do with that decision?

Re:Coincidence? I think not (5, Funny)

EllynGeek (824747) | more than 7 years ago | (#17024872)

Nah, it's a completely independent decision having nothing to do with their new Redmond overlords.

How weird, my nose is growing.

Re:Coincidence? I think not (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17025510)

There's something to be learned here, I think. If MS subverted Novell to (among other things) kill the hula project, It means MS thinks hula could have provided real competition to MS exchange. That makes it important to continue the hula project elsewhere, if possible.

Competition? (1)

MongolJohn (942570) | more than 7 years ago | (#17024886)

I wonder if there is a non-competition clause in the recent agreement.

Re:Competition? (4, Funny)

stevesliva (648202) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025360)

I wonder if there is a non-competition clause in the recent agreement.
Right. In other news, Novell is getting out of the operating system, virtualization, and identity management businesses. In a press release, Novell states, "We got tired of selling actual software that does stuff."

Re:Coincidence? I think not (1)

mordors9 (665662) | more than 7 years ago | (#17024922)

Surely you aren't suggesting that there were some other "understandings" the MS and Novell came to during their recent business agreement that weren't announced, are you? That would almost be suggesting that the two companies aren't being completely above board in their business dealing...

Re:Coincidence? I think not (0)

drDugan (219551) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025550)

described best here:


The essence the basics
Without it you make it
Allow me to make this
Childlike in nature
Rhythm
You have it or you don't that's a fallacy
I'm in them
Every sprouting tree
Every child apiece
Every cloud you see
You see with your eyes
I see destruction and demise
Corruption in disguise
From this fuckin' enterprise
Now I'm sucking to your lies


Re:Coincidence? I think not (1)

Marc_Hawke (130338) | more than 7 years ago | (#17024976)

Whether MS had anything to do with that or not...you've got to admit that it makes LOVELY, Grade A conpsiracy fodder. It's the kind of thing where the timing couldn't have been worse.

Re:Coincidence? I think not (1)

iamnafets (828439) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025082)

If not, their timing was impeccable. Keeping those developers on for another month sure wouldn't have hurt the PR...

Re:Coincidence? I think not (1)

TheViewFromTheGround (607422) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025216)

I strongly doubt the MS brouhaha has much to do with this. Novell is a company in very serious trouble, and the MS agreement as well as this announcement are the fruit of the same poisoned tree.

Re:Coincidence? I think not (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17025234)

Take your tinfoil hat off.

Hula was a piece of software that deserved to die. It did the things that Exchange does but didn't interoperate with Exchange. And since not many people in the Linux/Unix world are interested in running a mail server like Exchange/Hula that is a jack of all trades, master of none, people didn't really use Hula. So Novell was pouring all the time and money into a project that they thought everyone wanted, but no one really did.

Honestly, have you heard of anyone actually using Hula? I certainly haven't. I'm sure the Novell sales reps made a few sales based on Hula, but really anyone with a clue was running Sendmail, Postfix, or whatever plain Jane email server your prefer, and the few people who really did want an Exchange like solution just ran something like Zimbra that does the same thing but runs Postfix underneath.

If dumping Hula means that Novell will spend money on things that are actually useful to the open source community then this is great news. Because I'm sure no one is really sorry to see Hula go.

Re:Coincidence? I think not (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025552)

I tried out Hula but it was missing major functionality at the time (few months ago) and wasn't all that stable. But the real stumbling block was the virtually nonexistent documentation, which was blatantly incorrect in many places. Well, that and the difficulty of even coming up with a working system.

Re:Coincidence? I think not (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17025414)

I don't know, but Dave Camp, the project leader left Novell recently, if that's of any consequence..

Re:Coincidence? I think not (4, Insightful)

nine-times (778537) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025578)

Yes, because Microsoft was seriously on the verge of having Hula overtake Exchange.

Yes, that's sarcasm.

I liked Hula, or at least the idea of it, but there are quite a few of these sorts of applications around, I don't find any of them quite satisfying, and I doubt Hula has much of that market anyway. Besides, it's FOSS. Novel can't kill it if it wants to, so long as there are programmers willing to work on it.

Re:Coincidence? I think not (4, Funny)

shades66 (571498) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025852)

>Hmm, I wonder if Microsoft had anything to do with that decision?

NO... never... They wouldn't do a thing like that...

Anyway next weeks update to SLES10 will include the following features
a) OpenOffice has been updated to load/save Word documents by default and Macros will run by default.
b) Firefox has been updated to use MSN as it's homepage and default search engine
c) Evolution has been patched to try and execute all email attachments when you view an email.
d) All the above programs now need to be run as root

So surprising (0, Redundant)

McNihil (612243) | more than 7 years ago | (#17024786)

really, it is a total shocker!

Deal of the century (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17024788)

Now we know why the "deal" went through. ROFL... Good call MS.

Hm, I wonder why? (2, Insightful)

RagingFuryBlack (956453) | more than 7 years ago | (#17024794)

Wow, I wonder how much pressure MS exerted to get Novell to pull developers off of this?

Re:Hm, I wonder why? (1)

OwnedByTwoCats (124103) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025408)

Microsoft, Apple, Quicktime, "Knife the baby". Sound familiar?

What? (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17024816)

An open source project dying a quiet, pathetic death in lieu of things that might actually generate revenue?

NOW I've seen everything.

Re:What? (1)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025006)

A major distributor of GNU/Linux dying a quiet, pathetic death snuggled up to Microsoft in lieu of being an open source giant? You ain't seen nothing yet.

That's Novell for you. (1)

khasim (1285) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025070)

As a company, they should be doing everything they can to port their profitable apps to the major platforms out there.

Right now, GroupWise is a maojor bitch to install on Debian/Ubuntu. It's easier to install it on Windows. A lot easier. You just run the executables that Novell provides.

Novell needs to learn that migrations are a step-by-step process. And once you start helping your customers make those steps to a competitor, you aren't getting them back.

Debian may be a competitor (or not) to their basic server platform. But putting GroupWise on Debian means that you have moved them closer to your company.

Putting GroupWise on Windows means you've moved them closer to Microsoft.

The same with eDirectory, ZENworks and just about every other Novell product available.

Zimbra? (4, Informative)

tmccann (775221) | more than 7 years ago | (#17024826)

Didn't Zimbra [zimbra.com] beat them to the punch anyway?

Re:Zimbra? (4, Informative)

TheViewFromTheGround (607422) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025042)

All of the options, including Zimbra and OpenXchange, have serious problems. Hula looked really nifty and nice, if a bit monolithic. However, it always had a whiff of the vaporware about it and I think the case on that is now closed.

Scalix ... (1)

msimm (580077) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025460)

I've personally used Scalix and I believe OpenXchange (although I didn't like the install process with OX so I dropped it pretty quickly). Scalix has one of the best installs I've seen with an application under linux in a while. I believe both OX and Scalix rely on plugins for Outlooks support. I'm currently waiting for Scalix 11 to be release and am planning to move our corporate server over to it (from plain-old Sendmail/imap/pop). I'm pretty sure I didn't use Zimbra because they didn't offer an open version (Scalix offers a community version with a license limitation thats pretty fair).

Re:Scalix ... (1)

aztektum (170569) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025804)

"...I didn't use Zimbra because they didn't offer an open version."

clicky [zimbra.com]

Re:Scalix ... (2, Informative)

astro (20275) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025946)

I used Scalix (Community Edition 8) in a corporate environment w/ outlook clients and pure webmail users for close to 2 years and it was simply a dream. We migrated to it when Samsung dropped Samsung Contact, which was adequate at best. Both are descendants of HP Openmail. I would select Scalix again in a heartbeat if the need arose (I am again in the private working-alone style of contracting for now, so groupware... not so much a need for it). I would recommend the combination of Scalix Server + Fedora Core to anyone, and that is from a non-Redhat-fan.

Re:Zimbra? (1)

pherthyl (445706) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025636)

Kolab http://kolab.org/ [kolab.org] is another option

MS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17024864)

[insert conspiracy theory here about this (ceasing to engage in direct competition with an MS product) following so close on the MS-deal]

Catchy Subject with exclation mark! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17024868)

I'll put a quick witty comment here that touches on the sensitivities of all readers. Or even better, I'll post something obvious about open source's benefits that will mod me up and re-inforce my fragile ego.

And then I'll finish with a quick funny remark about M$.

Re:Catchy Subject with exclation mark! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17025424)

You got modded down--looks like you hit a little too close to the mark.

Customers left stranded! (2, Funny)

grolschie (610666) | more than 7 years ago | (#17024870)

So where will be buy our hula hoops from now? :-(

I represent the coalition against stupid posts (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17025010)

You are pathetic. You must lead a lonely and unfunny life. Perhaps you should meet this guy [slashdot.org] and start a relationship.

Feel free to not to post here ever again. I can start a petition if you wish.

Thanks for posting, it validated my disdain towards the average person.

Hmmm... (1)

brouski (827510) | more than 7 years ago | (#17024890)

Launch wild conspiracy theories in 3...2...1...

OX (1)

x3nos (773066) | more than 7 years ago | (#17024906)

My understanding is that Open-Xchange is way ahead in development anyway.

Protest the Microsoft-Novell Patent Agreement (3, Interesting)

Bruce Perens (3872) | more than 7 years ago | (#17024910)

Protest the Microsoft-Novell Patent Agreement [techp.org] .

I don't think there's anything illegal about Novell dropping its support for the Hula project, but it's another sign that they've welshed out on their former friends for money. About the best we could do in response would be to continue the project and get it deployed in the enterprise.

Bruce

Re:Protest the Microsoft-Novell Patent Agreement (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17025116)

Nothing prevents you from spending the mass amounts of money you have and supporting Hula Bruce!

You're just going after Novell to make more of a name for yourself...and honestly, getting a bit tired of your rhetoric.

Re:Protest the Microsoft-Novell Patent Agreement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17025142)

it's another sign that they've welshed out on their former friends for money

Nice racial slur you've got there

Re:Protest the Microsoft-Novell Patent Agreement (3, Insightful)

Brandybuck (704397) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025188)

I don't think there's anything illegal about Novell dropping its support for the Hula project

You don't think?!?! Last time I checked there was no law forcing them to pay for Hula development. If you don't like Novell, just don't use their products. No need to pull a Redhat and imply that they're criminals.

Re:Protest the Microsoft-Novell Patent Agreement (4, Insightful)

Bruce Perens (3872) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025340)

If you don't like Novell, just don't use their products.

Telling me not to use Novell's products if I don't like them ignores the fact that I'm one of the guys who wrote "their" products. I doubt you can install that system without using my software. And thus I'm one of the people who just got screwed because Novell and Microsoft colluded to engineer a way for Novell to welsh on the agreement that comes with my software.

No need to ... imply that they're criminals.

Except that they've just chosen to ally with an authentic convicted anti-monopoly law violator, found so by more than one jurisdiction. And their collusion with that law violator is engineered to reinforce the monopoly.

Bruce

Re:Protest the Microsoft-Novell Patent Agreement (1)

jrockway (229604) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025526)

> Telling me not to use Novell's products if I don't like them ignores the fact that I'm one of the guys who wrote "their" products. I doubt you can install that system without using my software. And thus I'm one of the people who just got screwed because Novell and Microsoft colluded to engineer a way for Novell to welsh on the agreement that comes with my software.

That's the thing about writing Free software -- people are Free to do things you don't like with it. Suck it up and realize that 99.9% of the people that use your software appreciate the work you do (and aren't using your software to screw other people) :)

Re:Protest the Microsoft-Novell Patent Agreement (4, Interesting)

Bruce Perens (3872) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025620)

people are free to do things you don't like with it

Yes, when I wrote the Open Source Definition, I made sure that it would be OK for you to use Open Source even if the author didn't like your politics. This was because of a license I'd seen from UC Berkeley on the Spice circuit simulation program, which prohibited the police of South Africa from using it. And still did, 10 years after apartheid was over and said police were probably Black.

But this case is different, becuase Novell and Microsoft have created a legal fiction of covenants rather than licenses in order to do what my license prohibits.

Bruce

Re:Protest the Microsoft-Novell Patent Agreement (0, Troll)

everphilski (877346) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025866)

But this case is different, becuase Novell and Microsoft have created a legal fiction of covenants rather than licenses in order to do what my license prohibits.

As another poster said ... if they really did 'do what [your] license prohibits', that is, break your license, then take them to court. put up or shut up already. And if you can't take legal recourse - that is, they really didn't break your license - suck it up and be a man and stop bitching about it already.

Re:Protest the Microsoft-Novell Patent Agreement (1)

radarjd (931774) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025554)

Telling me not to use Novell's products if I don't like them ignores the fact that I'm one of the guys who wrote "their" products. I doubt you can install that system without using my software. And thus I'm one of the people who just got screwed because Novell and Microsoft colluded to engineer a way for Novell to welsh on the agreement that comes with my software.

Exactly how are they "welsh[ing] on the agreement that comes with [your] software"? Presumably you chose a particular license under which to release said software. Are they violating that license or breaching a contract? If so, sue them. I imagine you know a few people who would support you in that effort.

If it's a less legally substantial reason that you're displeased, then you're not alone in being a person who did work in good faith, but has discovered that good faith only gets you so far.

Re:Protest the Microsoft-Novell Patent Agreement (1)

Otter (3800) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025602)

And thus I'm one of the people who just got screwed because Novell and Microsoft colluded to engineer a way for Novell to welsh on the agreement that comes with my software.

Sorry, the agreement that comes with your software requires them to pay Hula developers how, exactly?

And as others have pointed out, you're repeatedly tossing around an ethnic slur...

Re:Protest the Microsoft-Novell Patent Agreement (3, Interesting)

Bruce Perens (3872) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025736)

Sorry, the agreement that comes with your software requires them to pay Hula developers how, exactly?

The agreement doesn't require them to do that. That's just walking out on your frends for money. And I suppose you're going to tell me there's nothing bad about that, because it's not breaking the law.

The agreement does, however, require that they not create a tiered environment of patent rights on my software. Which is what they are trying to do.

Is "welsh" an ethnic slur? On people from Wales? Sorry. I didn't know.

Bruce

Re:Protest the Microsoft-Novell Patent Agreement (1)

phoenix.bam! (642635) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025910)

You're using the word welsh properly and in context.

Re:Protest the Microsoft-Novell Patent Agreement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17025254)

they've welshed out

A Jewish man from Wales, I find this comment offensive.

Re:Protest the Microsoft-Novell Patent Agreement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17025272)

Still pissed that Novell didn't bring you on board as a consultant?

Re:Protest the Microsoft-Novell Patent Agreement (1)

everphilski (877346) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025524)

Just because your petition drive has stagnated (still under 2100 signatures, I see) doesn't mean you get to troll Slashdot...

Re:Protest the Microsoft-Novell Patent Agreement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17025584)

Jesus, I knew you were a moron, but this is a bit extreme. Illegal ?

Boycotting Novell is the best form of protest (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17025670)

The only language Novell understands is the language of money. Money talk louder than protests.

Boycott ALL Novell products, as far as you can, that's the only form of protest Novell will listen to.

Exchange Gift (1)

Eberlin (570874) | more than 7 years ago | (#17024928)

Didn't Ximian do some sort of connector that let the Evolution mail client deal with MS Exchange servers? I haven't followed how that has propagated onto other e-mail clients yet. If I remember correctly, Ximian didn't release the code, but when Novell acquired them, the code was opened up.

From the perspective of the MS-Novell pact and this latest action, I'm wondering how the ol' Ximian Connector will fare in this whole debacle. After all, it was marketed as one more reason not to get an MS OS since some were holding onto their Windows version just to get access to MS Exchange.

With Novell supposedly getting "inside information" from MS, they couldn't risk doing the Hula anymore.

Re:Exchange Gift (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17025052)

Ximian Connector was a poor alternative to MS Exchange. It works by parsing the Exchange webmail interface...which kinda defeats the purpose because it requires the Exchange server to have webmail enabled. In the cases that webmail is disabled, XC will not work. In the cases that webmail is enabled, what's the purpose of Ximian Connector?

Cheerio,
D.

Re:Exchange Gift (1)

treke (62626) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025816)

The code was opened up and it made it into the evolution source releases. I don't think it really went anywhere else though.

And now a name change? (1)

monkeyboythom (796957) | more than 7 years ago | (#17024940)

To Hula Whoops?

Makes Sense (1)

dotancohen (1015143) | more than 7 years ago | (#17024958)

Why be innovative when you can have somebody else be innovative for you? Seems like Novell really does learn from Microsoft.

Interoperability, anyone? (2, Insightful)

mcrbids (148650) | more than 7 years ago | (#17024962)

Remember when the deal between Microsoft and Novell was to "encourage interoperability"?

Here's that "interoperability" at work, folks...

Re:Interoperability, anyone? (1)

1310nm (687270) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025926)

Microsoft has done a fine job of creating proprietary interoperability between its server platform and its desktop platform. Look at all fancy hooks Exchange can be equipped with: Windows Mobile, LCS, OWA, SharePoint...why let Novell muck things up when you're pumping hush...er...investment money into them?

Calendar Sharing (5, Insightful)

anagama (611277) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025050)

For business users, I think the lack of an integrated way to share calendars is a real shame. I realize that such things probably aren't that glamorous -- but I'd love to be able to edit my calendar and have my secretary edit my calendar. Maybe there is something that lets that happen right now and if so, I'd love to hear about it. I do recall being excited by Hula when I heard about it before because it seemed like "finally" something would happen. So I'm dissapointed by this news.

My present solution is for my secretary to manage my calendar with korganizer -- I then just overwrite my calendar on my mac laptop (ical works fine with the korganizer files). But it would be nice to not have to call her up and say "please put ____ on my calendar." I'd rather just do it and have the calendars sync up. The ics files are understandable text files and I've thought of trying to make a sync system by comparring the files on my computer and my secretary's, but I just dabble at computer stuff -- I'm not a real programmer and I can't risk my calendar to my low quality skills. So still I wait.

Re:Calendar Sharing (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025464)

I can't say that I've tried it, but does Google's calendar feature offer collaboration features?

Re:Calendar Sharing (1)

zulux (112259) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025530)

It's a bitch to setup - but multiple uses who have the calendar plugin for Thunderbird (Mac, Linix, *BSD, Windows) can all edit an ical file on a WebDAV server.

Hints:

Create a blank ical file first and move it to the WebDAV server - don't create the blank file directly with Thunderbird.
Test the WebDAV server with Windows Explorer.
With WebDAV and a good setup of rsnapshots - you can make your own psudo-Sharepoint that does what most 10-50 person offices really need.

Re:Calendar Sharing (1)

dr.badass (25287) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025542)

Maybe there is something that lets that happen right now and if so, I'd love to hear about it.

CalDAV [wikipedia.org] is the standard upon which the Hula calendar was based, so that's a name for what you're looking for. Conveniently, the next version of iCal [apple.com] (included with Leopard) supports it, and the server portion is open source [macosforge.org] , in case anyone was going to start crying about that.

CalDAV to the rescue (1)

Wesley Felter (138342) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025596)

iCal or Mozilla Lightning as the client, Leopard Server or OSAF Cosmo as the server.

Re:Calendar Sharing (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17025598)

I vote for:

http://www.google.com/calendar/ [google.com]

and for offline (never used it):

http://www.calgoo.com/ [calgoo.com]

Re:Calendar Sharing (1)

LeFaux (912931) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025886)

If you used Lotus Notes you could do that today. It is easy to setup and it works. Lotus/Domino is the top of the heap when it comes to mail calender integration.

Re:Calendar Sharing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17025930)

Gee, with all the MS bashing here I thought it would be fit to mention Exchange has been doing Calander sharing for years. But then again, so does Lotus Notes...

given MS parlay into VM solutions (1)

shareme (897587) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025054)

Given MS parlay into VM solutions competing with VMware.. Mono and SuSE developers are next to be dumped by Novell..

Because they already have one? (2, Informative)

jayhawk88 (160512) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025086)

While the project will continue, it appears that Novell is not committed to developing a viable open-source alternative to MS Exchange.

I know it'll never happen, but I've said many times before, the best thing Novell could do for their Linux interests is open source Groupwise.

2007: In other news (3, Funny)

denis-The-menace (471988) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025090)

Novell has introduced Tux-change, a MS-sanctioned port of Exchange for Windows
The company also states that it will soon release it own version of CIFS after the SAMBA organisation was sued into bankruptcy.

In related news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17025104)

Novell announces "greater interoperability" between Suse Linux Enterprise and Microsoft Exchange. Well, in the very near future. Really, any day now.

Wake up, Neo! (1)

kan0r (805166) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025128)

I see the end coming, I see the darkness spreading. [...] ..and you are all that stands in his way.
(Scary music fading in the background)

As one great American Marine once said... (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025140)

Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!

Linux-based Exchange server? (2, Funny)

Jim Hall (2985) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025214)

From the Hula Project web site: [hula-project.org]

Hula is a [Linux-based] mail and calendar server with a friendly web-interface designed for a great user experience.

So if Novell has taken all their FT developers off Hula, are we to assume that Microsoft is now going to offer a Linux-native version of the Exchange server? I mean, come on. If Microsoft-Novell is really serious with their "we are working on Linux-Windows interoperability" then they're dropping out of Hula in order to work on their Linux-native of the Exchange server, right??

I mean, the only other possibility is that Microsoft "asked" Novell to stop supporting a direct competitor for a Microsoft product. And that would just be silly of them, wouldn't it...

[/sarcasm]

Re:Linux-based Exchange server? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17025400)

[double-plus sarcasm]
I know. Maybe Novel pulled their full-time developers off Hula because Microsoft is about to assign some of their developers to work on it full-time? Or maybe both an official Linux server and client for Exchange? You know, to enhance interoperability?
[/double-plus sarcasm]

Maybe there it has been done already. (2, Interesting)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025220)

What about Zimbra and Kolab?
Both offer similar functionality to Exchange.
While an Exchange server killer would be really nice it seems to me as there are already too many clients and ideas floating around with not real direction.
Novell is a company and it's primary job is to make money by making their customers happy. I could very well be that the majority of their paying customers already have an E-Mail solution in place.
Of course it is FOSS so if it is worth doing maybe the Ubuntu team will pick it up.

Say it with me: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17025302)

Embrace and Extinguish.
Embrace and Extinguish.
Embrace and Extinguish.

I'm just asking, seriously..... (2, Interesting)

LibertineR (591918) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025322)

Okay, hate Microsoft all you want, but will someone tell me just what is so wrong with Exchange Server that makes it such a target for Open Source replacement? Is it that Exchange is basically an anchor for Windows Servers, or does anyone have a problem with Exchange itself?

When you consider the available alternatives, is their any room here for suggesting that in this ONE case, Microsoft did something right, when it comes to Exchange Server? I would like someone to honestly tell me either that Exchange has problems that need fixing, or that Exchange must go for Linux to gain more share in the Enterprise space.

Which is it, and why?

Disclaimer: I was on the original Exchange team, but no longer work for Microsoft. I'm really just curious at this point what is driving the anti-Exchange bandwagon, because I don't see a real, viable competitor out there.

Enlighten me.

Re:I'm just asking, seriously..... (2, Insightful)

nuzak (959558) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025358)

> Okay, hate Microsoft all you want, but will someone tell me just what is so wrong with Exchange Server that makes it such a target for Open Source replacement?

It only runs on Windows? Duh.

You are missing the point. (1)

LibertineR (591918) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025504)

The point of the question is: WHERE IS THE OPEN SOURCE ALTERNATIVE?

Every time this subject comes up on /., you get myriad statements on how nice it would be to have integrated calendar/scheduling, et all, but is Open Source any closer to delivering on that? If not, why not? I ask because it would appear that there is not going to be a real Exchange alternative soon, and I wonder if energy might best be used on something else?

Its like Excel, in that whatever you come up with, it WONT be better, but maybe just as good? At what point, when you cant win the game, do you just CHANGE the game so you can win?

Again, I'm just asking.

And dont tell me about Notes, please. (1)

LibertineR (591918) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025366)

You haven't lived until you take over an account with a Notes server with 500 users in the Notesdata directory, and 400 of the id files are named "user.id".

Exchange is great (1)

everphilski (877346) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025644)

Exchange is what keeps people locked into windows, honestly. That and Excel - 'calc' in OpenOffice blows. Open source projects have been trying to replace Exchange. I think the projects are just too fragmented, trying to compete with each other. If their forces combined maybe something would coalesce. There also seems to be a prevailing thought among a lot of developers of 'screw the corporate user' that as long as Linux works for hobbyists that's what its there for. Not everyone, but enough people to keep it from becoming mainstream.

But yes, Excel and Exchange are the two things Microsoft did absolutely right.

Re:I'm just asking, seriously..... (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025680)

Okay, hate Microsoft all you want, but will someone tell me just what is so wrong with Exchange Server that makes it such a target for Open Source replacement?

First, it only runs on Windows, and thereby supports the Microsoft monopoly. Second, when it craps all over itself and corrupts your mail, it's nightmarishly hard to recover any new mail that came in after your last backup. Or so I'm told - so far I've avoided ever having to actually deal with it.

Many of us simply believe that Microsoft, which has been convicted of anticompetitive behavior in multiple countries, should not be supported at all. Ever. Period.

Re:I'm just asking, seriously..... (1)

PCM2 (4486) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025776)

Disclaimer: I was on the original Exchange team, but no longer work for Microsoft. I'm really just curious at this point what is driving the anti-Exchange bandwagon, because I don't see a real, viable competitor out there.

I dunno. I've never had to do it myself, but everybody I know who's ever had to manage and maintain an Exchange server hates it. Maybe it's getting better over time. But it seems to definitely have its faults, in which cause the fact that there's no real, viable competitor is what makes people wish there was one. Make sense?

Is it commonplace for Microsoft employees (and former Microsoft employees) to develop the attitude that market competition is the equivalent of terrorism? I'm just asking. Enlighten me.

Re:I'm just asking, seriously..... (2, Insightful)

DragonWriter (970822) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025802)

Okay, hate Microsoft all you want, but will someone tell me just what is so wrong with Exchange Server that makes it such a target for Open Source replacement?


For many open-source idealists, it is a major target because it is (1) commonly used, (2) in a business-critical role, and (3) close-source.

I would like someone to honestly tell me either that Exchange has problems that need fixing, or that Exchange must go for Linux to gain more share in the Enterprise space.


Since Exchange server doesn't run on Linux, clearly the perceived need for Exchange is a barrier to Linux advancement, whether or not Exchange also has functional problems, but many people who want Linux to advance (probably virtually all of them that don't have a financial stake in some Linux-oriented business) are open-source idealists that want open-source software to become more dominant, and Exchange is, simply by its own dominance, a target for that, besides any barrier it poses to Linux adoption.

What timing. (3, Informative)

TheFlu (213162) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025330)

What odd timing. I literally swapped out Hula this morning with Really Simple CalDAV Store [sourceforge.net] . The only reason I used Hula was for it's CalDAV support, so that Evolution clients can work on a shared calendar. It worked fine for a while, but it started eating up 99% of the CPU on the server, so I had to dump it for something else. So far RSCDS seems to do the trick, but I haven't tested it extensively yet. You'd think a shared calender server wouldn't be very difficult to implement, but there doesn't seem to be many stable options in the Open Source world. Evolution's CalDAV support does seem to be a bit lacking, however, so that could be the bulk of my problem I imagine.

Thus far I've tried Hula, RSCDS, Cosmo, and Apple's CalendarServer and none of them seem to be the perfect solution. I'd love to see a package that acts as both a CalDAV server, but also gives you the ability to view and edit the calendars via a nice looking web-interface as well. I'm thankful for the projects that are currently being worked on however, and I guess I should stop complaining and start coding...

Braveheart (1)

SQLz (564901) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025352)

Memorable quote which kinda sums up the MS Novell deal.

Robert's Father: Longshanks acquired Wallace. So did our nobles. That was the price of your crown.

a $ for every OpenSource project Novell's dumped (1)

Fox_1 (128616) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025418)

If I just had that I'd be rich,
I'm just bitter, I got burned when they did this a few years ago
my company, other companies, and about 200 of their own all screwed the day before we went live
by now though we should be thinking
"Fool me once
Shame on you
Fool me twice
Shame on me."
fool me three times - that's enemy action.

Not Surprised. Expect More Cuts (5, Insightful)

segedunum (883035) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025678)

I'm not suprised they're dropping Hula, or at least support in the form of developers for it. Hula was released simply because Novell had a ton of crufty Netmail code, didn't know what to do with it and couldn't make any money out of it.

Netmail was repackaged into Hula with a logo, snazzy graphics and a lot of pretty meaningless hype. The project didn't really do anything because everyone already had a POP/IMAP and SMTP server, and there were countless open source groupware and calendaring solutions around such as eGroupware, OpenGroupware and Kolab. Novell should have invested their time and effort into one of these and bit the bullet over Groupwise in order to really try and take the ubiquitous Exchange head-on in corporate environments and make some headway. However, Novell still seem to be flogging that rancid and long deceased horse called Groupwise for some reason. Every Novell using company that I know (Netware, Groupwise etc.) is using Exchange, and Novell were going to need to do something different to change that - remove licensing costs at the server and CAL ends, ensure trouble-free Exchange migrations, ensure there was a free and working Outlook plugin etc. etc. Basically, remove the barriers to actually moving away - something Novell is hopelessly poor at. All of their customers (apart from Suse) they have now are basically historical from the eighties and nineties, as you have to literally fight to buy anything from Novell.

Novell strikes me as a company in a spot of real bother, especially with financial results around the corner. Linux (Suse) revenue has not increased in any way that is going to sustain them as a company by itself, Red Hat is miles off in the distance, the Netware userbase is continuing to shrink which it was before Novell's Suse move, and worse, there is still no sign whatsoever that Novell is creating a Linux distribution with open source software that will replace Netware, functionally speaking, and completely satisfy their existing customer base and stop them leaving. Novell talks a lot about choosing a Netware or Linux kernel in OES (Open Enterprise Server) or virtualising Netware, as is, under Linux via Xen. That's the extent of their support of Netware and the roadmap that they have for it, and by all accounts their customers are less than impressed by it.

It seems as though Novell really needed that $300 million from Microsoft, and I would expect many more cutbacks on lots of open source projects and even the proprietary software that isn't making any money in the run up to the next round of financial results.

Which OSS groupware server emulates MAPI? (1)

otis wildflower (4889) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025724)

Can someone please link to a stable opensource groupware server that emulates MAPI so that Outlook or Entourage users can use it without plugins?

Call to arms (1)

drDugan (219551) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025730)

The MS/Novell deal and (almost) killing Hula may be connected, maybe not. It doesn't matter.

It represents the largest, most obvious call to arms for the open source community in years:

We need to build a viable Exchange killer: a open, free (as in speech) alternative for IT managers who would choose Exchange.

This would be a massive project, but so were the Linux Kernel, Apache, Samba, Sendmail and others. We probably would not want it to be a single application, like Exchange, complete with kitchen sinks and deck chair stands... but a suite of tools that mirrored functionality and talked seamlessly with existing Exchange installations would be adequate.

screen shots of hula (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17025732)

Screen shots of hula [nyud.net] . Man, it looks pretty sweet.

My boss the "Mac" Guy.... (1)

zerofoo (262795) | more than 7 years ago | (#17025894)

I was just explaining to my boss why we have so much Microsoft stuff on our network....a big reason was exchange - it requires active directory, and if you're going to invest in AD, you might as well deploy other things that use AD.

Oh yeah, our accountants and state auditors require that we use Quickbooks enterprise edition as well.

If it wasn't for these two things, we'd be a Mac and Linux shop entirely.

-ted
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...