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KOTOR Will Rise Again

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the sith-like-even dept.

Role Playing (Games) 76

Via Joystiq, an article on the Next Generation site profiling the future of LucasArts. Aside from the corporate vision on the whole, LucasArts VP of global sales and marketing Nancy MacIntyre discusses the much-drooled over 'Star Wars 07' (you may have already seen the tech demo online). She also goes on record as saying that successful franchises like BattleFront and KOTOR will return on next-gen systems. "We typically work on these games about eighteen months out. We really treat these games like they are a theatrical release from the perspective of mapping everything out. We know that we need to be out there talking early and often and so you will see us handling the basic things like [fan] websites, but we'll also do web-docs and developer diaries and behind the scenes and all the kinds of information that these core fans really want to know."

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GNAA (-1, Troll)

snakehips57 (1033532) | more than 7 years ago | (#17040690)

"Lik-Dong closure leaves Noted Gay Nigger jobless"
"Lik-Dong closure leaves Noted Gay Nigger jobless"

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About Sony Adult Entertainment Corporation:

LOL.




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This isn't the troll you're looking for... (1)

Odiumjunkie (926074) | more than 7 years ago | (#17040836)

You can go about your business. Move along.

Wii (3, Interesting)

From A Far Away Land (930780) | more than 7 years ago | (#17040708)

How long until the Wii has lightsabre modifications [if it doesn't already]? I don't really keep my finger to the pulse of gaming, but it seems like a natural for the controls you can wave around.

Re:Wii (1)

wampus (1932) | more than 7 years ago | (#17040758)

Seems like a natural fit. I loved playing Jedi Knight with my flightstick, a Wii-mote making lightsabre noises in my hand might be enough to make me actually play another Star Wars game.

Re:Wii (1)

PieSquared (867490) | more than 7 years ago | (#17041774)

It is for exactly that reason that I would be really careful about buying the first star wars game to come out. There is a good change the first one will be that gimmick and nothing else. I don't want to play a game that is entirely swinging a lightsaber and nothing else. The idea certainly holds great potential for a part of a well thought out and interesting game, but there could be enough profit in just the gimmick to not be a motivation for a real game the first time.

I'll hold out for a few weeks after the first wii star wars game comes out before I spend my money.

Re:Wii + Lego Star Wars!! (1)

mabhatter654 (561290) | more than 7 years ago | (#17043574)

Just for fun and to ease what you said about the first game being a gimick.. the first game should be a LEGO Star Wars game. Then the plot dosen't matter as much.. the focus would be on having fun!

Wii-Bells! Bells! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17042180)

"Seems like a natural fit. I loved playing Jedi Knight with my flightstick, a Wii-mote making lightsabre noises in my hand might be enough to make me actually play another Star Wars game."

Wow! You can get all that with your left hand. What do you get with your right?

Re:Wii-Bells! Bells! (1)

wampus (1932) | more than 7 years ago | (#17043316)

That was the right. I like to switch it up. Tell your mom to send more pics.

Re:Wii (1)

PIPBoy3000 (619296) | more than 7 years ago | (#17040896)

It doesn't yet, but LucasArts has expressed an interest in doing something along these lines. It's odd because several people I've described the Wii to have specifically mentioned lightsabers.

Re:Wii (1)

Fozzyuw (950608) | more than 7 years ago | (#17041484)

It's odd because several people I've described the Wii to have specifically mentioned lightsabers.

hehe, it's the first thing my older brother said (who was a kid when Star Wars burned it's story into his head). With the remote speaker, I can see the 'wooh wooh' of the lightsaber to be a great fit... now if they could just make the batteries last longer! =)

Cheers,
Fozzy

Re:Wii (1)

Odin_Tiger (585113) | more than 7 years ago | (#17041062)

One problem, though, is that there's no force-feedback. Sword-swinging action might be good for fighting games or something like Morrowind / Oblivion in that you always follow through completely before starting your next attack. For light-sabre type stuff that would sorta suck because if your attack was blocked in the game but you followed through IRL, the resulting movements of your light-sabre would be unpredictably wild, but if you paid attention to make sure you didn't let your arm get out of sync with the in-game due to in-game factors (such as an enemy blocking with a light-sabre of their own), it'd be basically like playing Counter Strike with a 300ms ping...you'd have to be constantly hesitant and a bit behind the curve to not get messed up.

Re:Wii (1)

oc255 (218044) | more than 7 years ago | (#17041204)

Play WiiSports, specifically the baseball game. Get up to bat, tell Player2 not to pitch. Wave the baseball bat around at the plate and observe the 1:1 motion. Imagine this is your sword/lightsaber/etc. It works pretty well.

I understand what you are saying about the "follow through" disconnect but I don't think it's as big of an issue as I thought before I saw WiiSports. In baseball, the bat hits the ball, slows a bit and the disconnect really isn't there because the time passed on impact is super short (by the time you've said "I hit it!" the ball is in the outfield). Granted, baseball is not the same as a sword block like you are saying, by that I mean blocks in a KOTOR type game would be often and rapid compared to the one-shot nature of a baseball hit.

I dunno ... check the demo yourself. I was thinking (and lurking) in these types of conversations on /. pre-release but now I'm a believer after playing it for a couple hours.

Now my thoughts are on the latency with the bat I observed in WiiSports. Might be an issue if you're trying to do extremely precise movement. There is a bit of that going on when you are up to bat. But really, check the 1:1 motion in WiiSports baseball, it might answer this for you. I imagine if my arm was forward in real-life and the sword was blocked "mid-swing", I'd just return my arm all the way back.

You do this with your mouse and desktop screen all the time. No one is panicking "oh noes! my mouse cursor has stopped on the edge of the screen!" Although I guess it does create a strange disconnect: "I am using a computer" instead of "My hand is inside the computer". Meh.

Re:Wii (1)

kfg (145172) | more than 7 years ago | (#17041836)

baseball is not the same as a sword block like you are saying, by that I mean blocks in a KOTOR type game would be often and rapid compared to the one-shot nature of a baseball hit.

Push a Hot Wheels car around on your desk. Now go out and play in traffic and get pushed around by a car going 60 mph.

The former can be simulated with a force feedback mouse. The latter cannot.

Perhaps that's not the sort of empirical experiment you would be happy with. Try this:

Get a baseball, a baseball bat and a T-ball tee. Whack the ball off the tee. Remember how that felt.

Now get a baseball bat, a cinderblock and a sturdy end table. Whack the cinderblock off the of the table.

You'll note right the, ummmmmm, right off the bat there is a difference in the experience. The impact with the cinderblock is much shorter in time than with the baseball.

There'll be some other differences as well, but I don't want to spoil the surprise. Just go try it for yourself.

KFG

Re:Wii (1)

oc255 (218044) | more than 7 years ago | (#17074136)

I'm not talking about force feedback at all. Is this flamebait, wtf is going on here. The OP was talking about the disconnect between the Wiimote and the sword getting blocked. See my mouse+edge of the screen bits.

Re:Wii (2, Interesting)

jackbird (721605) | more than 7 years ago | (#17041620)

Picture this (stolen from a previous, inspiring, slashdot comment):

When your lightsaber collides with your opponents', the onscreen avatar's lightsaber stops, while a ghosted version reflecting the controller position is displayed. What happens next is determined by the spatial relationship between the ghosted lightsaber and the real one, by rules TBD in playtesting.

Re:Wii (1)

Chimera512 (910750) | more than 7 years ago | (#17044424)

that is the best (and only) answer I've heard to solve the inherent problems in Wii related lightsaber ventures, now we have to just hope the designers are at least as smart as whoever posted that and can make it work in game...sounds like it could work though.

Re:Wii (1)

Jackmn (895532) | more than 7 years ago | (#17049136)

stolen from a previous, inspiring, slashdot comment
Mine [slashdot.org] by any chance? =)

Re:Wii (1)

jackbird (721605) | more than 7 years ago | (#17049662)

yes.

Re:Wii (1)

Fozzyuw (950608) | more than 7 years ago | (#17041784)

I didn't follow your train of thought 100%, but like the poster above me stated, Wii Sports and it's Basebase (bat) work really well for how close the bat mimics the remote.

As for your concerns of blocking and such, it's simple, just design the game mechanics to take this into effect. For example, if you're going to block with your lightsaber, then you hold the A+B buttons down, which will put the lightsaber into the 'block' position. As for the animation regarding this, they can chose to 'instantly' move the saber to your front or to animate it in a more slowly timed movement. 'Instantly' might sound kind of silly at first, but it's actually pretty common in game design.

Mortal Kombat does this. When you punch, your characters hand 'instantly' appears fully extended and then is animated to withdraw back into the character. This creates a different response feel for the fighting game such that your button press, and characters reaction felt more in-sync. They tried doing it with animation on the arm extension but it frustrated players because they felt like the control response was 'sluggish'.

So, anyway, LucasArts and their design team can decide how to 'make it work' to be the more enjoyable, but having to hold the saber in front of you or at a certain position to block, isn't necessary. In fact, most 'real' motions don't feel 'real' when translated into games. There's usually short cuts (like described above) that are used to 'enhance' the feel, otherwise, your game character just won't feel as 'epic' or 'heroic'.

Hmmm... re-reading your post, I understand your 'follow-through' thought now. From playing the Wii, there is 'some' relevance to this issue, but it's not noticeable given the fact that the remote isn't fully swing like a sword in most cases, but rather it's just a flick of your wrist. This means you can move the controller much faster than a swing, so you can reposition the remote for a follow up action. Likewise, as mentioned above, LucasArts can implement the game play to prevent such issues. Example, if sabers cross paths, then the 'block' sound happens and your follow through is impossible to inflict damage until the next full/semi-full swing. Think of it like this... it's no different than smashing the 'A' button in current games to swing your sword. You might have mashed that button 3 times but you've only did one swipe with your sword. It's not impossible, it just means that people should not expect a game where you can wildly swing your sword while you cover your eyes with the other hand and hope you can kill your opponent. =) Games work best when they limit the 'realism' into the game.

Cheers,
Fozzy

Re:Wii (1)

NeilTheStupidHead (963719) | more than 7 years ago | (#17042010)

If I were to guess, I'd say that they'd simply use force feedback to indicate when your lightsaber was being blocked/was blocking. Give the player a bit of 'grace' for over-swing and force them to learn some control of their movements. Now admittedly, I've never been involved in a real sword fight, but in swinging wooden practice swords around with my friends, we quickly learned that the two wooden swords will bounce off each other when someone blocked a very strong swing. There was more than one incident with somebody's wooden sword bouncing back and striking them. Now that could hurt when it was a simple wooden pole; I'd imagine the consequences would be much worse if the same happened with a real sword/light saber. Besides, using Macsaber [lowendmac.com] is far more entertaining.

Re:Wii (1)

amuro98 (461673) | more than 7 years ago | (#17042300)

I can't recall the name of it, but there's an arcade game at my local Dave & Buster's which gives you a small foam replica of a samurai sword that you wave around inside a sensor area. On screen, you see the game sword moving in the same way. In the game you play a samurai who has to fight feudal-era demons and zombies - essentially Onimusha with a better controller, or Samurai Jack vs. House Of The Dead.

Anyways, the only control you have is how you swing or hold the sword. And yes, the monsters can block your attacks just as you can block theirs.

To get around the problem your describe, the game only interprets a few movements - mainly, holding the sword in various positions (for blocking) and downard or side-to-side slashes (for attacking). If you're good, it is possible to behead enemies with 1 strike.

If my attack is blocked, my onscreen sword just bounces back - it doesn't stay locked. While my arm may still be extended, the game's sword is waiting for my next command. This means if you were to wave your sword up and down repeatedly, all you see on the screen is your sword chopping down repeatedly - you don't see the upward stroke at all.

Despite the seemingly simplistic move set, it's still quite fun to play.

Of course, a light saber can do more than just wave around...and I'm sure there's going to be many reports of broken windows and TVs as people get too excited and physically THROW their Wiimote in an attempt to get their character to throw his lightsaber at someone.

Re:Wii (1)

Akaihiryuu (786040) | more than 7 years ago | (#17054552)

Someone just needs to hurry up and invent the holodeck already.

And use the wii puck for force powers (1)

doug141 (863552) | more than 7 years ago | (#17041840)

My god, that would be awesome. Left hand motions execute force powers, right hand swings the saber. Or dual sabers.

Re:Wii (1)

shoptroll (544006) | more than 7 years ago | (#17042382)

That video clips has Wii written all over it. If it can pull of Metroid Prime 3, that tech demo should be possible on a Wii.

Re:Wii (1)

asit+ler (688945) | more than 7 years ago | (#17046580)

This may be california dreaming, but what if we had Battlefront 3 on the Wii? Lightsaber noises and much slashing when in Jedi mode, much aiming and B-button smashing in "normal troop" mode, and (!) tilt-control with A-targeting, B-primary fire, and Z-secondary fire in "space battle mode" with some C-button/stick use for position changing, or nunchuk-flicking...

Same with the KOTOR franchise.

Of course, the game length would be limited by the size constraints of the DVD9 format, but the X360 proved there is some pretty awesome compression that can be implemented (possibly a wii firmware upgrade)

*drools at 300+-hour games using Wii-style controls*

Finish the job, please... (3, Interesting)

Randolpho (628485) | more than 7 years ago | (#17040756)

KOTOR was amazing. KOTOR2 was..... unsatisfying. It had a lot of potential, but was not finished. Please, Lucasarts, finish the job. Follow the KOTOR paradigm, not the KOTOR2 paradigm.

Re:Finish the job, please... (1)

MooseMuffin (799896) | more than 7 years ago | (#17040972)

Someone needs to convince Bioware to make their own sequels.

Re:Finish the job, please... (3, Insightful)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 7 years ago | (#17041118)

No, someone needs to convince LucasArts not to ship a game 3 months early and then completely cut off the ending.

KOTOR:2 was superior to KOTOR:1 in all regards, save for the fact that it was unfinished.

Bioware made Baldur's Gate, and then the Obsidian crew (when they were Black Isle) made a FAR SUPERIOR game using the same engine called Planescape: Torment.

Their NWN:2 shines head and shoulders over NWN. Obsidian has arguably the most talented staff around.

They need a publisher who will support them. Obsidian didn't have that when they did KOTOR:2.

Re:Finish the job, please... (1)

RsG (809189) | more than 7 years ago | (#17041312)

Seconded. Black Isle/Obsidian are a damn fine developer. PS:T and Icewind Dale are every bit as good as the Bioware games made using the same engine, which is saying something.

Plus, if you look at the stuff that was cut from KOTOR 2 at the last minute, you begin to see the potential it had. I think it would have been head and shoulders above the first game, had they been given the time to get it right. Of course, "developer makes good game, publisher forces early release (usually for Christmas)" is an old and often repeated tale in the games industry...

Re:Finish the job, please... (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 7 years ago | (#17041780)

They tweaked the rules to make all the attributes more important, added combat/lightsaber styles, more Force powers, Prestige Classes, etc. So from a pure mechanics standpoint they really improved the game.

They added Influence, and allowed you to alter the members of your party. My wife played Dark Side, and I watched her pry Atton's secrets from him, and use them to twist him to the Dark Side. It was a great moment. Truly that was an improvement over the original.

All of the characters had depth, including T3. T3 and the Wookie were empty, cardboard cutout characters in the original.

The dialog was better all around. The romances weren't nearly as cheesy as the original.

The main character perhaps didn't have the same bad-ass factor that people enjoyed from the original, but I found his backstory to be more interesting. The backstory of Revan is that he is a bad-ass. End of story. In KOTOR:2 there was just much more depth.

If Obsidian didn't have to ship the game 3 months early, I'm sure they would have been less bugs, and if LucasArts didn't axe the original ending, people would see the game very differently.

Obsidian really needs to the do the third installment, so they can finish what they started.

Re:Finish the job, please... (1)

MrChom (609572) | more than 7 years ago | (#17041994)

Prestige Classes were a nice touch, as were the new force powers...they needed work though (Restriction of powers at some levels to certain classes, or restriction by dark/light not just a penalty point system).

The lightsaber forms were next to useless though. I have now done two run throughs of the game, lightside I used the forms once and then never bothered again. Second time through as darkside I never bothered using them.

I think the issue with KOTOR 2 is that it added too much in one go. The new workbench system was cumbersome (sometimes forcing you to quit and then reopen the same workbench to do some tasks) but powerful, the influence system was somewhat hit and miss (Some actions that really SHOULD have forced you into someone's good books did nothing), and so much more that muddled the experience a little. Add to this the fact that the characters of KOTOR 2 rarely matched up to those in KOTOR and it made the experience less fulfilling for me...Visas really was the sole interesting character.

The game needed 4 more months in development, just to finish off the plot and levels....but alas Lucasarts got itchy and released it anyway.

Re:Finish the job, please... (1)

beaver1024 (645317) | more than 7 years ago | (#17042758)

No matter what they will do, Obsidian's reputation is now tainted by the debacle that is KOTOR 2. The good games released previously was under the name of Black Isle not Obsidian. Hence people who do not keep up with the industry will not know what Obsidian is capable of given a good publisher. In any event, Locust Arts owns the rights to the SW franchise and will more than likely be interfering in KOTOR 3 just like they did with KOTOR 2. I will not waste my money like that again.

Re:Finish the job, please... (1)

djp928 (516044) | more than 7 years ago | (#17057386)

Their NWN:2 shines head and shoulders over NWN.

Is this the same NWN:2 that stealth-corrupts your savegames and eventually makes it impossible to finish the game if you've been foolish enough to "only" keep four or five saves around?

Anybody have any idea when they're going to fix this issue? I realize I'm going to have to start again, but I'd sure like to play the game and have some assurance that I'm going to be able to finish it at some point. Preferably without having to fill up the 50 GB of free space on my hard drive with saves.

-- Dave

Re:Finish the job, please... (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 7 years ago | (#17057750)

Funny. I know plenty of people that have played the game to completion with not a single problem.

Re:Finish the job, please... (1)

djp928 (516044) | more than 7 years ago | (#17058252)

I'm sure they have. However, the technical support forums for NWN:2 are littered with complaints similar to mine. Just look for the "Unpacking Module" bug. I've yet to see anybody in any official capacity even acknowledge that they know of the issue.

I want to play the damn game so bad. I spent $300 upgrading my system so I could run it. I just need them to patch this bug (or at least tell me what I can do to avoid it) so I can finish the stupid game.

-- Dave

A hell of a lot was left out.. (1)

Channard (693317) | more than 7 years ago | (#17041010)

.. such as a branching plot where Kreia could be saved, the factory making HK47 clones and more. There's apparently a project in the offing to restore some stuff which can be found in the game's files. But I doubt it'll be able to raise KOTOR 2 to the point where it's actually a worthy sequel to KOTOR.

Re:A hell of a lot was left out.. (1)

KillerBob (217953) | more than 7 years ago | (#17044712)

I'd suggest you download and try TSLRP [team-gizka.org] before you discount it. The amount of work that's being done on the project is significant, largely because the amount of cut content being restored is huge.

And before somebody asks the obvious question... when it's done. Probably some time between Christmas and Duke Nukem Forever.

Re:Finish the job, please... (1)

vastabo (530415) | more than 7 years ago | (#17043420)

Ask, and ye shall receive...
http://www.team-gizka.org/ [team-gizka.org]
They're making great progress, but don't ask for a release date.

I, for one... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17040772)

... welcome our new KOTOR overlords.

Cue Kenobi Voice (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17040942)

"Which reminds me...I have something for you..."

*unzip*

Your father wanted you to have THIS when you were old enough...

Re:Cue Kenobi Voice (1)

Tackhead (54550) | more than 7 years ago | (#17041462)

> "Which reminds me...I have something for you..."
> *unzip*
> Your father wanted you to have THIS when you were old enough...

I think we've solved a mystery here.

In the original, as we all know, Han shoots first, and all Leia has to say to Han (5 minutes after kissing her brother "for luck") is "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!"

A couple of re-imaginings later, when Han doesn't shoot first, and Leia's all ga-ga over him, and won't have anything to do with her brother.

I'm not sure what Greedo had going on, but George Lucas is one sick fuck.

Chris Walken as Obi Wan (1)

Alzheimers (467217) | more than 7 years ago | (#17051356)

The way your dad looked at it, this LIGHT SABER was your birthright. He'd be damned if any of the SITH were gonna get their greasy GREY hands on his boy's birthright. So he hid it in the one place he knew he could hide something: TATTOINE. Five long years, he wore this watch ON TATTOINE. Then when he died of dysentery, he gave me the LIGHT SABER. I hid this uncomfortable piece of metal ON TATTOINE for two years. Then, after seven years, I was sent home to my family. And now, little man, I give the LIGHT SABER to you.

Rise of the Sequels! (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 7 years ago | (#17040948)

If they make number three, number ten won't be that far off.

Re:Rise of the Sequels! (1)

qyiet (851101) | more than 7 years ago | (#17041450)

If they make number three, number ten won't be that far off.

I believe George Lucas already covered this with "Attack of the Clones"

EVGENY DAVYDOV Will Rise Again (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17040950)

Per Djoos too...

heh, Jews!

Lightsaber controller (1, Insightful)

arniebuteft (1032530) | more than 7 years ago | (#17040962)

This just screams for a special wiimote that looks, feels, and sounds like a lightsaber. Of course, it'll be a $100 add-on, but how bad-ass would it be to see your on-screen character swinging around a lightsaber, matching every one of your real movements. Of course, you'd still be able to play with the regular controls, but having a functional lightsaber remote as a limited-edition add on would probably generate a lot of interest. Of course, methinks a lot of people in the target demographic would get winded after about 30 seconds of gameplay, and give up...

Re:Lightsaber controller (1)

BitwizeGHC (145393) | more than 7 years ago | (#17044200)


how bad-ass would it be to see your on-screen character swinging around a lightsaber, matching every one of your real movements.


Sorry, but LucasArts has to protect the integrity of their intellectual property, and it simply would not do for their Jedi characters to show all the lightsaber prowess of the Star Wars Kid.

Re:Lightsaber controller (1)

crossmr (957846) | more than 7 years ago | (#17044510)

I have to echo this, imagine what you could do in a Star Wars game on the Wii. You could mimic the force powers for really intuitive gameplay. A thrust would send a force push, a yank would pull them forward, a 45 degree forward thrust would choke someone, a double thrust could shoot lightning, a completely verticle thrust could send people flying up, a swirling motion could confuse them, etc and then of course the light sabre. Special attachment, controller, etc not withstanding, even using the wii mote it would be ridiculously awesome. Lucas arts needs to really look at this and consider doing it right.

Pictured: Star Wars Empires at War (3, Funny)

StikyPad (445176) | more than 7 years ago | (#17040998)

Holy crap, the stormtroopers have no feet! He cut off their feet! What kind of sick bastard would do something like that? That's just despicable. I can't believe they would even put something like that in a game.

Re:Pictured: Star Wars Empires at War (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17042552)

Nancy MacIntyre (2, Informative)

TheJediGeek (903350) | more than 7 years ago | (#17041070)

This is the same person that said there was "too much reading" in Star Wars Galaxies which is why they had to rip the game apart and target the ADD crowd. I would go on another SWG rant, but it's been said. Just a reminder that she's the PR person that helped kill the game.

Re:Nancy MacIntyre (1)

ringbarer (545020) | more than 7 years ago | (#17041190)

And she takes it up the shitter.

Great (1)

eison (56778) | more than 7 years ago | (#17041082)

Maybe they'll actually finish the next one.
Probably too much to hope for...

Re:Great (1)

Deltaspectre (796409) | more than 7 years ago | (#17043914)

It could be worse....

They could finish KOTOR II and sell it as KOTOR II.5

KOTOR (1)

ObiWanStevobi (1030352) | more than 7 years ago | (#17041172)

Love and hate the KOTOR games. The storyline really sucks me in. (maybe I'm prone to it, hence the nickname) However, there are a couple major problems that need to be addressed.

BUGS!!!

Do not release another bug filled KOTOR game, please! KOTOR 2 had so much going for it until you hit bugs that completely ruin the game.

The second complaint is that as soon as you become a Jedi with all the cool moves and gear, the game is done. I don't mind the progression, but give the player more time to be a Jedi.

Finally, give the player a chance to branch off from the main story for a bit and gain XP. Let certain enemies respawn and let players go back to other planets before finishing off the game. You're forcing someone through an RPG like it's a shooter.

Re:KOTOR (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17050982)

The second complaint is that as soon as you become a Jedi with all the cool moves and gear, the game is done. I don't mind the progression, but give the player more time to be a Jedi.
In KOTOR 2, you have those Jedit powers from the very beginning of the game. No wonder you hated that game. :)

Good Thing (1)

skorbutrage (983250) | more than 7 years ago | (#17041446)

This can be a good thing if they finish it, and bring HK47 back again, i loved KOTOR and liked KOTOR 2, as far as i see, finishing it up properly and giving us a bit more of the KOTOR story should at least keep hopeless addicts like me quiet for a while.

Re:Good Thing (1)

semifamous (231316) | more than 7 years ago | (#17042244)

Personally, I like this idea. I think that bringing back both the droids would be the smart thing to do since the "Star Wars" saga is supposed to be from the droids' point of view anyway. Not having HK-47 and T3-M4 would be dumb.

I don't see why you all liked this game (1)

Hubbell (850646) | more than 7 years ago | (#17041654)

When I played it I REALLY tried to like it, but just couldn't. I found it abominally(sp?word?) slow paced and just simply not fun.

Not interested in another KOTOR game.. (1)

d_jedi (773213) | more than 7 years ago | (#17041890)

if it's half-finished like KOTOR2 was.

Would it be too much to ask for Obsidian to actually go and fix the bugs/add the missing content as a game update/patch? That would satisfy me..

As it is, maybe I'll pick up KOTOR3 when it's in the bargain bin. But I won't be going out on release day to pick it up like I did with KOTOR2.

Re:Not interested in another KOTOR game.. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17042354)

Well, when the publisher won't pay for you to finish the game -- much less fix the bugs -- why should you the developer pay out of pocket? You get a lot of ill will going beneath the surface between you and the publisher after you've been screwed over. I also think the NWN2 / Atari bullshit was pretty bad too. Developers shouldn't have to fight tooth and nail just to do their job. How would you like it if I told you to add a feature, but then forced you legally not to be able to work on said feature until three months before release? Think about that.

I'm not speaking for Obsidian here just my personal experience.

Re:Not interested in another KOTOR game.. (1)

kuerin (1027598) | more than 7 years ago | (#17042928)

why should you the developer pay out of pocket?

To salvage its credibility and reputation, perhaps? To my knowledge, Obsidian never even acknowledged that KOTOR II was released in a broken and unfinished state. And I question whether Obsidian is as blameless as its defenders insist. The developers knew that they were working under significant time constraints, and yet they chose to tell an overly ambitious plot that they should have known could not be implemented in time.

If Obsidian is too proud or too clueless to admit its mistakes, then I have serious doubts about whether Obsidian can learn from them, and for that reason I intend never play another Obsidian-developed game.

Re:Not interested in another KOTOR game.. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17043136)

Umm, no. Before you go around saying pretty ugly things like that, you should at least look into the matter superficially.

Obsidian let Lucasarts know that they were ahead of schedule and would possibly be able to release int he spring. Lucasarts thought they could get Obsidian to finish EVEN FASTER and told them to release in the Christmas season before the spring... far far earlier than Obsidian actually expected to finish.

Obsidian left a ton of material in the game that was cut - obviously to demonstrate that there was a bit more originally planned for. It's simply not their fault, and that's accepted by many frustrated customers. KOTOR2 should be completed and re-released, I agree. Perhaps as a bonus to KOTOR3, perhaps just as a cheap game to hype KOTOR3. It's in Lucasarts's best interest to pay Obsidian to finish the game - it would be relatively cheap to do.

Re:Not interested in another KOTOR game.. (1)

kuerin (1027598) | more than 7 years ago | (#17043936)

I'm aware that Lucasarts advanced the deadline. But everything I've read about the matter indicates that the deadline was reduced from about 14 months to 12; I've seen nothing to suggest that Obsidian originally believed that it could develop through spring. If you have proof of that alleged fact, I'll revise my opinion.

Assuming that the deadline was reduced by two or three months, neither of us can say for certain whether the game would have been properly finished with that extra time, but I submit that the storyline was too complex even under the original timetable. For example, Darth Sion and Darth Nihilous were both grossly underdeveloped, and I'm loathe to accept that an extra two months would've fixed that problem. And Avellone himself has said that he realized while developing the story that he had a tight schedule. Trying to tell a considerably more sophisticated story than that of KOTOR I in that time frame was a mistake.

I also think that it's funny that you tell me to get a clue in the same breath that you make the conclusory assertion that KOTOR II's failings are "simply" not Obsidian's fault and speculate that unused assets were "obviously" left in the game on purpose.

Re:Not interested in another KOTOR game.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17043214)

Yeah, because publishers NEVER change their minds as to what date they want things done by... Don't be so naive and very vindictive over what was actually quite a good game. Things get cut from video games all the time, entire levels, characters etc. Enjoy KOTOR2 for what it is.

Re:Not interested in another KOTOR game.. (1)

NNland (110498) | more than 7 years ago | (#17058948)

Obsidian had 13 months to develop KOTOR2, which is 5 months shy of what Lucasarts has just said they like to give people, and from what I understand, significantly shorter than what they were originally told would be available. Also, patches aren't developed out of the goodness of developers' hearts, the money to develop the patches has to come from somewhere (publishers), and if they (publishers) refuse to pay (not uncommon), patches won't be made.

I would also mention that KOTOR2 (among other games) that are released for both console and PC are in a strange situation where one can be patched (to fix bugs, add content, etc.) where the other one may not be practical to do so, and things like "consistency of play" may be more important than a "perfect" game.

Re:Not interested in another KOTOR game.. (1)

NNland (110498) | more than 7 years ago | (#17059518)

Make that "approximately 13 months". Want a reference? Gamespot has a "Developer Interview".

Who cares? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17041946)

Star Wars is for fags and 7 year olds.

Re:Who cares? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17049390)

Alright Harry Potter, chill out.

Awesome! (1)

tttonyyy (726776) | more than 7 years ago | (#17042610)

My wife loves the Knights of the Old Republic games (despite not being a Star Wars fan), so it'd be great to see them continue. The depth of plot and attention to detail is amazing on the Xbox, so I'll be expecting at least as much from the next gen consoles. :)

New Engine? (1)

atomicstrawberry (955148) | more than 7 years ago | (#17043422)

From memory, the two KotOR games used a heavily modified Neverwinter Nights engine. If they do a new one, I really, really hope they can use a new engine. Not because the graphics began to look a bit dated, but because of the ludicrously high loading times. Compare them against most PS2 RPGs and the loading times are an order of magnitude slower in KotOR, and that's without taking into account the auto-save time. It was really frustrating when you'd need to walk through two or three areas to get somewhere, and you would spend more time watching the loading screen than you were playing the game itself. The areas never even seemed to be big enough to warrant the long loading times, either. A more optimised engine could probably have handled much larger areas, or even gotten some kind of streaming / load-on-demand setup working.

Re:New Engine? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17045966)

I was about to ask WTF you were talking about, but then i remembered i have a chipped xbox with all the games on the HD.

Acronym Hell Again (1)

szembek (948327) | more than 7 years ago | (#17047790)

KOTOR == Knights of the Old Republic We shouldn't have to google this. Put it in the summary.

Re:Acronym Hell Again (1)

GrayCalx (597428) | more than 7 years ago | (#17049180)

Its one of those, "if you have to ask, you're probably not interested" stories.

star wars games are all good games (1)

coolamber (755059) | more than 7 years ago | (#17052552)

From the Next gen article http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_conte nt&task=view&id=4236&Itemid=32&limit=1&limitstart= 1 [next-gen.biz] "Star Wars games, nowadays, are almost always good games." This shows you how arrogant Lucasarts is. I personally love Star Wars but the majority of the games created under the franchise are crap. There have been a few absolute gems, but the company needs to take some cues from the companies that actually complete their games before releasing them.
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