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How Sega Ruined Sonic the Hedgehog

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the poor-spikey-haired-rodent dept.

Games 108

The always entertaining RetroGaming with Racketboy has a long post up railing against Sega for ruining Sonic the Hedgehog. The blue, spikey hero has had a rough time of it of late. Outings from the series like Shadow the Hedgehog, and even the next-gen title simply named Sonic the Hedgehog, have gotten simply terrible reviews. He longs for a return to simple, fun, not-creepy play. From the article: "As the new generation of platforms emerged, Sega used Sonic as a way to show off their newest graphical technologies. There is no doubt that the new Sonic the Hedgehog for the XBox 360 looks nice, but as the abysmal reviews indicate, graphics are not everything. In order to push its cutting-edge graphics to the limit, Sega, in their infinite wisdom, felt the need to bring Sonic and his friends into a more realistic world, filled with life-like humans. As you can see from this video, there is something creepy about some giant hedgehogs interacting with humans. My point is that Sega doesn't seem to know what it wants to do with Sonic. It seems like Sega assigns various quick-and-dirty development projects in order to see what ideas sticks with consumers. Unfortunately, Sega fans have had to suffer through this process."

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Start the video at 00:34 (4, Informative)

Animats (122034) | more than 7 years ago | (#17082586)

Start the video at 00:34 to avoid the blithering asshat.

Re:Start the video at 00:34 (4, Funny)

icepick72 (834363) | more than 7 years ago | (#17082810)

Read the parent post between characters 20 and 24 to avoid the blithering asshat.

Re:Start the video at 00:34 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17088860)

I followed your instructions. 00:34 ...

ok...what the hell is that supposed to mean. Are you sure I didn't miss some context in the first 19 characters, because I really have no idea what 00:34 means.

Re:Start the video at 00:34 (1)

RobertLTux (260313) | more than 7 years ago | (#17093526)

this would be rather short instructions to after starting the video either zone out for the first 33 seconds or fast forward past the intro which contains a less than average intelligence person talking (many times a video will have markers in the form of HH:MM:SS to indicate times where "the good parts are"

Re:Start the video at 00:34 (4, Insightful)

ofcourseyouare (965770) | more than 7 years ago | (#17083368)

personally, I thought the "blithering asshat's" comments were the best-expressed and best-acted part of the whole video...

Re:Start the video at 00:34 (3, Insightful)

I Like Pudding (323363) | more than 7 years ago | (#17085384)

Though true, it does nothing to reduce the magnitude of his asshattery in absolute terms

Re:Start the video at 00:34 (2, Funny)

Shads (4567) | more than 7 years ago | (#17088332)

Yah something about Sonic going Super Saiyan is just WRONG.

Re:Start the video at 00:34 (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 7 years ago | (#17089622)

Well, at least without 7 chaos emeralds and 50 rings...

sp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17082632)

SECOND POST!!!!

Hope for the Wii version (4, Informative)

neostorm (462848) | more than 7 years ago | (#17082656)

For the first time since the 2D Sonics, here is a really promising looking Sonic game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ruxm9D0p6P8 [youtube.com]

Some of the environments in the screenshots look fantastic too. The game looks just like the 2D games in 3D, which is probably what they should have done in the first place.

Re:Hope for the Wii version (1)

dotbenjamin (1034650) | more than 7 years ago | (#17082676)

Or just make some more 2Desque games instead? Seems to have worked with Mario on the DS.

Re:Hope for the Wii version (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 7 years ago | (#17082712)

They are making 2d-esque games (Sonic Rush, for example) and those are still pretty good but I think he's talking about making a good 3d Sonic game.

Why? (2, Insightful)

TrekkieGod (627867) | more than 7 years ago | (#17083760)

Why is there a need to make a Sonic game in 3d? It was a classic the way it was. To me the whole idea sounds a bit like trying to make 3d pac-man.

Re:Why? (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 7 years ago | (#17087368)

I think it'd work better in theory since in 2d Sonic it's deadly to go fast in an area you don't know, 3d would allow you to see enough of the area ahead of you without making it hard to see Sonic himself (since you don't need to zoom out). That way you could keep running fast even through unknown terrain without hitting the next enemy or bottomless pit.

Re:Hope for the Wii version (5, Insightful)

badasscat (563442) | more than 7 years ago | (#17083826)

They are making 2d-esque games (Sonic Rush, for example) and those are still pretty good

I'd go further than that - Sonic Rush is the Sonic game all these people have been waiting for. It's amazing to me that so many people complain about the current Sonic games and hardly any of these people have bothered playing Sonic Rush. It's rarely even mentioned in any of the talk about recent series entrants.

Sonic Rush is a much more natural evolution of the Sonic series than any of the recent 3D games on home systems. Ironically, Sonic Rush is 3D, in the same way the Klonoa series is - the graphics are mostly cel-shaded 3D, the gameplay basically 2D. This lets the old-school gameplay that Sonic fans want shine through, while still adding some new 3D elements and the fully 3D boss battles.

One of the big sites - it was either GameSpot or GameSpy - called this game the "most significant" Sonic game in many years. I would agree with that if only more people had played it. It is an example of what Sonic games can be in the modern age, although unfortunately for all concerned, it didn't sell particularly well. What lesson does Sega take from that?

If you want good Sonic games, buy the good Sonic games. If you don't buy them, Sega won't make them. And that's what's happening now; Sega is unsuccessfully searching for a new formula, having apparently been convinced that the original formula no longer works in the marketplace.

Re:Hope for the Wii version (2, Interesting)

Turn-X Alphonse (789240) | more than 7 years ago | (#17084570)

I bought Rush mostly for the music (It's amazing, no one can deny it), but I think they need to slow it down. It wasn't even remotely hard unless you ran off a cliff. Level design is just "run bitch run" and unlike the originals there doesn't appear to me many routes you can take.

But yea, it's a step in the right direction but still needs work.

Re:Hope for the Wii version (1)

Nin10dude (951019) | more than 7 years ago | (#17086196)

Who cares how difficult the game was, as long as it's fun? That's what Sonic Rush was, it was extremely fun.

Re:Hope for the Wii version (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17092734)

Problem is, how do we tell the good ones apart when there are so many shitty ones together with them? They shouldn't assign games the Sonic name and characters unless they're going to be good - it's called "building a brand."

At this point, the Sonic brand is so weak they'd be better off releasing the next good Sonic game under a completely different name.

Re:Hope for the Wii version (1)

MilenCent (219397) | more than 7 years ago | (#17096776)

I'd agree with you completely except for one thing.

Sonic Rush changed some of the basic rules of the game, with the biggest being that, when Sonic jumps, he spins and remains spinning until he touches the ground again. While he's spinning, he destroys any enemies he touches if they are not spiked, electrified or fiery in some way. When he lands on a foe while spinning, he bounces back up into the air, still spinning, and returns from the height from which he fell. And when running on the ground, pressing down causes him to roll into a ball and roll, during which time he cannot gain speed using his legs (he'll slow down on level terrain), but if he's going downhill while rolling he'll pick up speed, and can in fact exceed his normal maximum in this way.

These are fundamental aspects of the physics of 2D Sonic games for the Genesis, and they are not true, according to what I remember of the game, for Sonic Rush.

Sonic Heroes (1)

phorm (591458) | more than 7 years ago | (#17103440)

How is this much different than Sonic Heroes? A little more open landscape, but I actually found SH somewhat fun to play.

Re:Hope for the Wii version (0, Redundant)

Frizzle Fry (149026) | more than 7 years ago | (#17083370)

The Sonic Game for DS (Sonic Rush) was quite good also. Not as good as Mario, but a fun old school Sonic game that certainly worth the $20.

Re:Hope for the Wii version (1)

ObsessiveMathsFreak (773371) | more than 7 years ago | (#17082756)

Some of the environments in the screenshots look fantastic too.


You call that looking good? It was uninspired, drab, bland. Man, gamers nowadays will call anythign with a high texture rate goodlooking. Get over it. Art design trumps resolution 99 times out of 100.

Re:Hope for the Wii version (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17083430)

"High texture rate"? I'm sure you mean resolution, but if you're looking for art "direction" (because art design isn't any terminology I'm familiar with either) I was pleased with these environmnents in particular:

http://www.cubed3.com/media/2006/September/jb/wiis onicrings2.jpg [cubed3.com]

http://www.cubed3.com/media/2006/September/spydarl ee/Sonic_Rings_1.jpg [cubed3.com]

http://www.cubed3.com/media/2006/September/spydarl ee/Sonic_Rings_4.jpg [cubed3.com]

That looks pretty unique, but your tone sounds like you're just set to be unintested in anything regardless of it's quality, so maybe you should just not bother replying.

Re:Hope for the Wii version (1)

nomadic (141991) | more than 7 years ago | (#17084752)

Art design trumps resolution 99 times out of 100.

True. Look at Diablo II; a beautiful game, lousy resolution, but it didn't matter. Or any one of a number of PS2 games.

Re:Hope for the Wii version (1)

Disseminated (1022915) | more than 7 years ago | (#17082970)

That does look very promising. Equal parts simplicity and excitement is what my man Sonic is all about. For the most part I think the original Dreamcast 3D Sonic Adventure did a pretty damn good job. Sonic 2 is pretty much still the pinacle of the series tho. :P Maybe this return to simplicity of gameplay (as I understand it you basically just use the Wii-mote like a steering wheel, ya?) with punched up adrenaline environments is what's needed. All the platforming they've had Sonic on is the wrong idea. Sonic is supposed to be too cool to waste his time and inertia hopping ON the platforms. ;-} If this game lets you just GO already then it's doing good!

To Late (1)

Admiral Frosty (919523) | more than 7 years ago | (#17084720)

Sorry, its a bit late for Sega to make a good Sonic game for me. I plan on never buying another of those game again. Sega has proved one too many times that they just don't want to make one worth my time, so I lost all interest. Even my memories of the old games are tarnished. Sonic, that cool guy who once rivaled Mario (in my mind), can just die and burn in hell for all I care. [/jaded rant]

Re:Hope for the Wii version (1)

arevos (659374) | more than 7 years ago | (#17085416)

Sonic's legs don't seem to be moving at the pace he's running, which seems to kill the illusion of speed a little. He also turns a little too quickly; there's no sense of momentum. I guess it's easier to get these things right in 2D than 3D.

Re:Hope for the Wii version (1)

Kuukai (865890) | more than 7 years ago | (#17085746)

If the logo and the title are any indication [imageshack.us] however, I have a bad feeling about where they're drawing their inspiration from...

Sega should of made a real sonic pinball game (1)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 7 years ago | (#17082684)

It would likely of been a big hit.

Re:Sega should of made a real sonic pinball game (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17082748)

Would it "of"?

Someday you'll be asking someone if they "of" any spare change.

Re:Sega should of made a real sonic pinball game (1)

ObsessiveMathsFreak (773371) | more than 7 years ago | (#17082856)

It would likely of been a big hit.
I believe it did [wikipedia.org] modestly well. Honestly speaking, it wasn't too bad.

Re:Sega should of made a real sonic pinball game (1)

Mprx (82435) | more than 7 years ago | (#17082940)

That's not real pinball, that's highly inaccurate pinball simulation.

The xbox 360 game is terrible. (2, Interesting)

Deag (250823) | more than 7 years ago | (#17082694)

The demo is on xbox live if anyone wants to try it, and it is all I have played
But good luck, it is very very bad. Doesn't look the worst but it is impossible to control. The camera goes all over the place and the little bastard you are supposed to be controlling just flys about the place very quickly, yes that is what sonic is supposed to be, but it is not good when you have to follow him at this pace.
No idea how a modern Sonic game should go, I think it would be best if they just gave up on this one, maybe release a newer version of the platform game on the arcade services for the new consoles. I don't think anything else would work.

Re:The xbox 360 game is terrible. (1)

Asmor (775910) | more than 7 years ago | (#17082764)

The sad part is... Sonic 3D (for the Genesis) was actually pretty decent.

But frankly, the only sonic games of recent years worth playing were the ones on the GBA.

Re:The xbox 360 game is terrible. (1)

7Prime (871679) | more than 7 years ago | (#17093940)

You're kidding, right? Sonic 3D Blast? That was quite possibly the worst sonic game ever, and has gone down in history as one of the biggest dibacles of a series. It was slow, uninspired, impossible to tell where you were, virtically, due to goofy isometrics. I would go as far as to say that the Sonic Adventure games were even slightly better (even though I think they're absolutely terrible). I've heard great things about Sonic Rush, though.

Re:The xbox 360 game is terrible. (1)

grammar fascist (239789) | more than 7 years ago | (#17083468)

No idea how a modern Sonic game should go, I think it would be best if they just gave up on this one, maybe release a newer version of the platform game on the arcade services for the new consoles. I don't think anything else would work.

Actually, the newfangled 3D Samus does Sonic better than Sonic does. The morph ball puzzles in the Metroid Prime games are some of the best parts. I'd pay good money for a Sonic that did that kind of stuff, but required quicker reflexes.

blatant flamebait (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17082818)

I think the summary is blatantly flamebait. We really need to tone down the beastialphobia around here. You beastialpobes need to get a life and not pass judgement on what adults do in the bedroom. You can deny it but bestialisty is here.

Sonic the Hedgehog turned me into a furry (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17082832)

Before I got a Genesis, I was a pretty normal kid. Sports, girls, good grades - you know the drill. When I got my Genesis along with Sonic, my world changed. That sexy hedgehog blew my mind. Who would have thought that a sprite could be so hot?

He was in my mind non-stop. In class, I would do nothing but draw Sonic in sexual poses. Once, I even rubbed one out in History class! My girlfriend left me shortly after, but I didn't care - I had Sonic.

Are there any other Sonic aficionados on Slashdot? What were your experiences like?

The whole concept of praying (4, Funny)

antifoidulus (807088) | more than 7 years ago | (#17082834)

to whatever god she was praying to for sonic's revival is even creepier than the kiss. I want to convert to whatever religion it is where you can pray for the revival of giant anthropomorphic hedgehogs.

Re:The whole concept of praying (5, Funny)

TCQuad (537187) | more than 7 years ago | (#17083082)

Clearly, she was praying to Shenlong [wikipedia.org] . Sonic, surrounded by glowing orbs, is brought back to life and immediately goes Super Saiyan.

Re:The whole concept of praying (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17089660)

Clearly, she was praying to Shenlong. Sonic, surrounded by glowing orbs, is brought back to life and immediately goes Super Saiyan.
Would I be correct in assuming that you must defeat Shenlong to stand a chance?

Re:The whole concept of praying (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17084166)

Chances are I wasn't going to play it anyway, but thanks a lot for SPOILING it for those of us who may at least want to give it a shot!

Re:The whole concept of praying (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17090934)

Christ, people play Sonic the Hedgehog for the storyline? Read a book, people.

Re:The whole concept of praying (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17094418)

Christ, people play Sonic the Hedgehog for the storyline? Read a book, people.
Yes, and we're called fanboys.

my 2 cents... (3, Interesting)

daddyrief (910385) | more than 7 years ago | (#17082994)

I have beaten almost every sonic game for genesis (3D blast being the exception.) I was also younger than 12 at the time, and all I can say was that despite recycling themes and gameplay for 3 sonic games, the first sonic trilogy was FUN. They had a formula that worked for level design, bosses were always different and creative, certain levels had other things to do(slots in casino night zone? checkpoint minigames?) Now, I'm glad they didn't make another sonic side-scroller back then, as it would have been simply milking for cash.

But how should Sonic look and behave next-gen? (now, current gen?) It's simple.

-Keep sonic badass. Sonic has always been badass, but not OVERDONE. He always looked badass just by looking mean and shaking his finger. Tails should serve as a foil to his badassness. Shadow makes me cringe as a one-time sonic/sega fan -- way too overdone.

-Keep the former cast of Sonic. There was no need to create a slew of new characters, IMHO. With the comic book series from a few years back, plus minor characters from other games, was there a need for new characters? Guess the old ones weren't cool enough for 'next-gen.' Familiar characters would have kept old fans coming back. Sonic has even had love interests in the past! Don't tell me you can't work that into a game.

-Most importantly -- KEEP the feel of GAMEPLAY. The old Sonic games were easy to pick up and play. You couldn't really get lost, and there wasn't a myriad of moves to learn just to understand the game. Mario made the transition well into 3D; Sonic didn't. I saw another /.er's video of the Wii Sonic to come out, and I must say it looks closer to what a 3D Sonic should look like. Fast paced gameplay, ring collection, but in a 3D environment. Sonic should feel faster than Mario and other platformers.

So ends the rantings of a former fanboy. I must also admit, I haven't played many of the recent Sonic iterations, but if reviews (user and site) are any indication, I'm not missing out on much. Sonic needs to return to its roots.

Re:my 2 cents... (1)

bersl2 (689221) | more than 7 years ago | (#17083854)

-Keep sonic badass. Sonic has always been badass, but not OVERDONE. He always looked badass just by looking mean and shaking his finger. Tails should serve as a foil to his badassness. Shadow makes me cringe as a one-time sonic/sega fan -- way too overdone.

-Keep the former cast of Sonic. There was no need to create a slew of new characters, IMHO. With the comic book series from a few years back, plus minor characters from other games, was there a need for new characters? Guess the old ones weren't cool enough for 'next-gen.' Familiar characters would have kept old fans coming back. Sonic has even had love interests in the past! Don't tell me you can't work that into a game.
Sega is stuck between giving their characters no personality (like Mario) and giving their characters the kinds of adversity that develop true character. Sega wants squeaky-clean characters for the younger gamers, but they want a manner of sophistication for older gamers (the "badass" you refer to), and they end up with neither---and with something that really puts off non-fanboys.

As for the addition of new characters, when one is unwilling to develop existing characters, often one resorts to adding new characters. I have no problem with all the characters, but I want to see substantially more existing character development, something it seems as if they haven't even tried to do since SA1 (the development of Tails' self-esteem).

-Most importantly -- KEEP the feel of GAMEPLAY. The old Sonic games were easy to pick up and play. You couldn't really get lost, and there wasn't a myriad of moves to learn just to understand the game. Mario made the transition well into 3D; Sonic didn't. I saw another /.er's video of the Wii Sonic to come out, and I must say it looks closer to what a 3D Sonic should look like. Fast paced gameplay, ring collection, but in a 3D environment. Sonic should feel faster than Mario and other platformers.
Mario 64 itself is a counter-example to all points but the speed point. Mario can perform a number of moves, and most (if not all) are needed to beat the game, yet for some levels (and some stars) only a few need be known to play. The same is true (to a slightly more limited extent) in both SA games.

Profit (3, Insightful)

HappySqurriel (1010623) | more than 7 years ago | (#17083006)

Every day there is an argument as to why someone should care whether their gaming company of choice should turn a profit, and I think Sega demonstrates why it is important. Back in the Genesis days Sega was nearly as good as Nintendo was at producing a large number of high quality titles; as the Sega CD, Sega 32X, and Sega Saturn drained Sega of their profitability the quality of their product diminished because they could no longer afford to produce the high quailty games. The Dreamcast had many gems, but most of Sega's games demonstrated their problem in that they were reasonably unique but lacked the polish to get the most out of the game.

Today Sega's games are (pretty much) released 'on schedule' whether or not they're complete or not; this means that Sonic the Hedgehog and Shadow the Hedgehog are terrible games that never stood a chance of being good in the first place.

Re:Profit (1)

NeMon'ess (160583) | more than 7 years ago | (#17087492)

What on Earth are you saying? That Sega shouldn't have released the Saturn to compete against the Playstation? Sega made tons of mistakes, but a huge one was letting Sega of America release the 32X. I doubt the Sega CD hurt profitability very much since it was presumably sold at a near break-even price.

Wow (4, Funny)

Mongoose (8480) | more than 7 years ago | (#17083156)

Sonic goes super saiyan! Does the 360 game have Freeza in it?

Re:Wow (1)

Spectek (1034712) | more than 7 years ago | (#17084068)

Freeza?! Oh come on. The problem (well one of the problems, it's the one that sticks out for me the most) is that people care too much about graphics and not enough about meaning and development and the concept of a game being a kind of interactive movie where you can really get a feel for the main character and develop the sid characters too. I'd rather play the PS1 version of Metal Gear Solid 1 anyday than all this "Sonic Rush" rubbish any day of the year. Sonic Adventure 1 was great, but its sequel was complete B******* per se. I think all this Freeza bsiness is a bit offputting, as they're adding more and more charactrs and not giving a flying monkeys about the old characters. I miss teh chao.

Re:Wow (1)

Shados (741919) | more than 7 years ago | (#17085526)

Lol, Sonic was able to become "Super" since Sonic 2 on the genesis, and has been able to in (almost) all of the titles since then...

Giant hedgehog = win, Cheesy plot device = lose. (3, Insightful)

identity0 (77976) | more than 7 years ago | (#17083168)

there is something creepy about some giant hedgehogs interacting with humans.

Boy, I bet Disneyland is going to give you a heart attack.

Actually, it'd be really funny if we could have a "Grand Theft Sonic" game, or Ico with Sonic, or "Metal Gear Sonic". Putting a giant blue hedgehog into a realistic, serious game = comedy gold. I'd love to see Sonic beating up hookers or sneaking up on a guy and snapping his neck.

Seriously, though, the clip looks like they combined Sonic with Final Fantasy and Dragonball Z. WTF? The realistic humans I don' care about, but it looks like they took some of the cheesiest parts from the "kid's anime epic playbook" and put it in Sonic.

And despite what the title of the video says, no Sonic does *not* get an erection in the clip. That's his hand, maybe his thumb, which is on the other side of his body. Too bad, it'd be *awesome* if it was :D

Re:Giant hedgehog = win, Cheesy plot device = lose (2, Funny)

GammaKitsune (826576) | more than 7 years ago | (#17083652)

Do people make out with the cartoon mascots at Disneyland often? I must have missed that.

Re:Giant hedgehog = win, Cheesy plot device = lose (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17087052)

In Soviet Disneyland, cartoon mascots make out with you!!!

Tell our youth the truth! (2, Interesting)

Admiral Frosty (919523) | more than 7 years ago | (#17083196)

I have a younger brother who is only plays the new 3D sonic games, and loves them. Its horrible, seeing his mind being warped into thinking that somehow these are games that we should welcome into our consoles.

I've only ever passed the first level in these games (heroes and shadow) once, and never EVER felt the urge to play again. You can't see what your doing, but your sure to do it fast. And if the gameplay wasn't enough of a reason to ignore these games, the whole repulsive attitude thing is, as it will make you wish death upon whatever mentally deficient sub-human thought it would be "cool".

Then Shadow comes along, and makes the gameplay and story somehow worse by adding broken and aggravating objective, non-aimable guns, not to mention the idea of a large, anthropomorphic, amnesiac animal in love with a disproportioned eight year old is enough to drive one mad. The guns themselves are the equivalent of adding a dating simulation to Half-Life 2, only instead of courting Alyx, you court headcrabs.

Then, they have to go a prostalatize it with Racers and other spin-offs.

Sonic is the gaming equivilent of Star Wars. The old ones where fun, but the new ones rape all my old memories, leaving me feeling hollow and jaded.

Please Sega, if you have any shread of decency, they will kill him instead off leaving him in this tormented existence that is worse then death.

Re:Tell our youth the truth! (1)

J. T. MacLeod (111094) | more than 7 years ago | (#17083992)

Heroes and Shadow were horrible games, but they were far cries from the first two Sonic Adventure games, which were, in my opinion, far better 3D translations than the Mario series.

The big problem most people had with the Sonic Adventure games was that you didn't actually play as Sonic for most of the game.

Re:Tell our youth the truth! (1)

Jace of Fuse! (72042) | more than 7 years ago | (#17089420)

far better 3D translations than the Mario series.

You may be the only person in the entire world that thinks so.

Super Mario 64 is still by almost all standards one of the greatest games of all time. Sure, it's out-dated now, but the challenges are still fun. Good enough that many people felt compelled to repurchase it on the DS to get the new stars that were added, and to play through it again with the new characters.

Be honest with us, you never did really play it did you? That's okay, it's not too late for you. You can still pick up a Wii. It's a Virtual Console title.

I suppose it's possible you were just trolling, in which case, I guess you got me there.

Re:Tell our youth the truth! (1)

triffid_98 (899609) | more than 7 years ago | (#17090092)

I played through most of it, and for a N64 launch title it was great, but Banjo-Kazooie was IMO a far better entry in the same genre.

Super Mario 64 is still by almost all standards one of the greatest games of all time. Sure, it's out-dated now, but the challenges are still fun. Good enough that many people felt compelled to repurchase it on the DS to get the new stars that were added, and to play through it again with the new characters.

Re:Tell our youth the truth! (1)

J. T. MacLeod (111094) | more than 7 years ago | (#17092908)

Actually, I did play Super Mario 64. I played it on N64 shortly after it was released, and was blown away, but I was frustrated by the sloppy controls and mid-game challenges and bored well before then.

Not that I expect the one of the most pioneering games ever to do everything perfectly. It broke ground in the 3D genre and set the standard for all other games. It was one of the most important games of all time.

I bought it for the DS, thinking that maybe it was just me being new to 3D games that put me off of it the first time. No, I had the same experience. I had similar feelings about Super Mario Sunshine, which I was utterly sick of 3/4 of the way through the game (although I think it succeeded in fixing some of the control problems and coming closer to the "Mario feel").

I think the first two Sonic Adventure games were not only better games, but felt more like their predecessors. But they weren't the pioneers that SM64 was.

As some one who really loves many 3D platformers and really loves Mario games, I just didn't think SM64 was all THAT great.

Re:Tell our youth the truth! (1)

Jarlsberg (643324) | more than 7 years ago | (#17096636)

SM64 was a great game for its time, but it was overrated then, and since it's now canon that it not only broke ground but also was the greatest 3D platformer of all time, you'll find many who adore this game to no end. I thought it was a good game on the N64, and I liked it on the NDS, but I certainly do not consider it to be the pinnacle of 3D platforming. Plus, towards the middle and end, it gets boring and repetetive.

Sonic Adventure 1/2 can't compare to Mario 64 (1)

LKM (227954) | more than 7 years ago | (#17096722)

Heroes and Shadow were horrible games, but they were far cries from the first two Sonic Adventure games, which were, in my opinion, far better 3D translations than the Mario series.

Owning both a DC and a N64, I can tell you with some authority that you are the first person I've ever seen make that claim.

The DC games weren't particularly bad - especially compared to modern 3D Sonic games. But they had quite severe flaws (especially during the non-sonic stages). They simply can't compare to Mario 64.

Project S (4, Interesting)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 7 years ago | (#17083206)

These days, the only new Sonic game I really want is Project S. It's a fan project that aims to complete the infamous cancelled Saturn title Sonic X-treme [wikipedia.org] . And here's the most interesting bit: the project is being led by Sonic X-treme's own director, Chris Senn.

The real tragedy here (1)

Durrok (912509) | more than 7 years ago | (#17083576)

Hard to tell, but looks like he has his 360 hooked to a standard definition TV :|

Re:The real tragedy here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17083664)

Yeah, fuck the 90-plus percent of us with standard definition televisions!

Re:The real tragedy here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17084468)

Yeah, fuck the 90-plus percent of us with standard definition televisions!

"Oh no, someone has a better $foo than me!, I'm being fucked over - the bastards!"

Re:The real tragedy here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17087932)

$foo = Dick.

Re:The real tragedy here (1)

SirSmiley (845591) | more than 7 years ago | (#17083776)

Its a SDTV 19" RCA, my wife has the same one...good picture quality but putting an xbox360 on that small of a monitor is a crime! maybe if it were 19" LCD =)

Re:The real tragedy here (1)

Durrok (912509) | more than 7 years ago | (#17084438)

It's like a 90 year old women buying a Porsche and using it to drive around town to the grocery store. Just seems like a big waste....

Re:The real tragedy here (1)

bky1701 (979071) | more than 7 years ago | (#17087948)

But unlike cars, they don't sell cheaper, less powerful xBoxes that do the same thing (play the same games, that is).

Suggestion (2, Funny)

Black Art (3335) | more than 7 years ago | (#17083694)

He should roll up the humans in a large ball and give them as an offering to the King of the Cosmos.

Re:Suggestion (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17085530)

I like where this is going.

Super Mario Brothers forever (-1, Offtopic)

danpbrowning (149453) | more than 7 years ago | (#17083698)

One can't ruin something that's already bad. Super Mario Brothers, in contrast, was a great game.

Re:Super Mario Brothers forever (3, Insightful)

FreonTrip (694097) | more than 7 years ago | (#17083910)

Revisiting old video games while minimizing the impact of decade+ old prejudice yields fascinating insight into the mechanics of electronic entertainment from the past. The original Sonic the Hedgehog games were very tightly designed, fast-paced action games with emphases both subtly and distinctly different from Nintendo's action roster. A non-verbal, edgy-looking character in a surreal universe having to balance his strengths (i.e. going really, really fast and being nearly invincible when attacking) with the demands of the game world in which he lived (sometimes having to be patient and waiting for an opening) made for memorable and challenging experiences. Initially the addition of new characters didn't detract significantly from the gameplay; it was sorta cool for Sonic to have a sidekick, and both Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 allowed you to get rid of the little guy if you wanted to. Playing as Knuckles forced you to re-evaluate old choices and visit parts of levels previously inaccessible - in a way, it was like getting a new lease on the same old game.

But ever since the last Genesis and Game Gear games (including the Sonic & Knuckles pack, which took the entertaining Sonic 3 and turned it into a weird little epic), the series has completely lost its focus. This is somewhat surprising since one of the series' original founders left Sonic Team. bersl2 pointed out [slashdot.org] that a good deal of this is due to the desire to balance the needs of young and older gamers. Frankly a choice should have been made a long time ago: cater to the needs of younger children by rounding out characters in squeaky-clean fashion, or just go abstract and sophisticated, introducing complex new techniques and making the games artistic little masterpieces of old-school design with creative new wrinkles.

Compromised game designs lead to compromised games. It's not complicated.

eh? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17084248)

How does this fit in with the paid Zone FUD anti PS3 wank wank wank wank? And yes, if you faggots mods this down, you confirm you are a wakner Zonk rimmer. Except if you hang around here enough to get modding, you are WAY WAY WAY away from sexual experiences, you fscking gay faggots that can't even chat up a bitch in heat.

Rodent? (2, Insightful)

kchrist (938224) | more than 7 years ago | (#17084452)

from the poor-spikey-haired-rodent dept.

Since when are hedgehogs rodents?

wtf (1)

operato (782224) | more than 7 years ago | (#17084478)

is it just me or is this very much like the game wipeout 2097 except with legs?

Just PLAY THE GAME. (1)

jsrlepage (696948) | more than 7 years ago | (#17085352)

I'm so sorry people, but I beg to differ on the issue of Sonic the Hedgehog 2006. I may not be a hardcore gamer - I do have somewhat of a life - but I still own the 360, the Wii, and all the last-gen consoles, counting the ½last-gen Dreamcast. And I ENJOYED Sonic2006. Read that again. I ENJOYED Sonic2006. Why? It's pretty plain and simple. I played the game without looking back at the old ones. Sure, it doesn't have the same feel. Sure, it demands a little getting used to. Sure, it's not perfect (I did swear at the pitiful memory usage and lagginess that's apparent). Sure, sometimes it feels like a hyperlushed StdXbox game. But come on. It's playable, it's enjoyable, and the game itself is cool. If you want to piss on a game, at least piss on it relative to the current titles and the current development trend (stories galore). I will not compare a Current-gen game to a 16bit-gen game. Fck, stories weren't even worth implementing back then.

Re:Just PLAY IT NOW (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17086786)

In the last few years after sonic adventure and sonic advance, Sonic carrer was almost dead and hanged. Well now that Sega has worked on a discent Sonic game, Sonic the hedgehog for x box 360 is guarntee worth playing. Old and new charcters a good story line, mad core graphics. I have to addmit Sega must of worked really hard on this game to get Sonic fans back into playing it.

If you cant get this game I'd get it because its for any Sonic fan you could wish for. So go ut and buy Sonic the hedgehog on X box 360. But there 2 more Sonic games to be released Sonic rivals for PSP and Sonic the hedgehog and the secret rings for the nintendo Wii.

I see no glitches, and the emerald that transports you saved Sonic's blue butt from when I first fought that Silver punk (No offense) My friend had the emerald and let me play whatever I wanted to play. I love everything, except how Sonic dies. And how Princess Elise falls in love with Sonic. I do hate one part of the game though, Princess Elise KISSES Sonic, in order to bring him back to life it was GAY I actaully puked it scared me so much. Silver is mildy slow, Tails' bombs were awesome, Knux is cool in this game. Shadow's enemy is friggin' sweet. The Graphics for the game are the origanal next gen graphics (Awesome) Shadow Has better gameplay then ever before, Sonic is as fast as he should be, like the other games made him seem slow, like in Sonic Riders he could only run 150, and so COULD EGGMAN!! IMPOSSIBLE!! But, the game could probably even make a none-Sonic fan like him. Trust me, its awesome, but I am a huge fan since I was two. Owned, and beet every Sonic game, but, sadly, can't remember all endings.

Sonic Made the Leap to 3D in 1999... (1)

heli0 (659560) | more than 7 years ago | (#17086834)

.. and it was great.

http://www.gamespot.com/dreamcast/action/sonicadve nture/review.html [gamespot.com]

Why they haven't been able to replicate that success is puzzling.

Many people are pointing out the very good Sonic Rush for the DS. The developer deserves credit for that game, not SEGA: http://www.dimps.co.jp/pro/list-hard.html [dimps.co.jp]

Re:Sonic Made the Leap to 3D in 1999... (2, Informative)

sesshomaru (173381) | more than 7 years ago | (#17086968)

It's not surprising why SEGA wasn't able to replicate that success.

SEGA died.

What we call SEGA these days is actually SEGA Sammy Holdings [segasammy.co.jp] a different, and much more unsavory beast.

Development teams were merged, staff was let go, staff left rather than be a part of the new entity.

If Sonic represents the face of SEGA, then it is no wonder that he is a shambling, grotesque abomination lacking the spark of life that the old Sonic had.

Although, honestly, I don't see how a company which is "Realizing group synergies" [segasammy.co.jp] can go wrong.

Put Sonic on Rails (1)

randomErr (172078) | more than 7 years ago | (#17087046)

I love Sonic, but all the recent console games suffer from one big flaw: Too many options. Sonic was meant to be fun and fast. These recent RPG style Sonic games just plain suck. The control sucks. The puzzles are extremely easy or extremely hard. Don't get me started on some of those platforms that you have to hit just right or die and lose the *entire* game. If you want to make Sonic RPG, make Sonic RPG games and get rid of the timer/rating system.

If you want to keep the original fun of Sonic then put the 3d look on rails. It doesn't have to be completely limited like Panzer Dragoon. But, your games need limits. If a fanboy bitchs that I can't go to the top of some mountain then let him. He can go play something Sacred and be happy. Everyone else will enjoy your Sonic game and sales will increase.

Sonic Rush is it guys. Its 3d and 2d, polished, on rails, and fun! If you don't believe me about Sonic Rush look at New Super Mario Bros. 3d look, a nice mix of 2d and 3d play, again lots of fun.

Star Trek similarities (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17087564)

Did anyone see Star Trek when Spok nailed this green bitch?

Aw man (1)

BrokenBeta (1007449) | more than 7 years ago | (#17088602)

Even in Slashdot, Sonic's appearance is in a minor topic...

Babies are cute (1)

BIGmog (592353) | more than 7 years ago | (#17088922)

Maybe if the series followed Mario and added baby versions of every character, it would work again.

I've seen that clip before... (1)

Chabil Ha' (875116) | more than 7 years ago | (#17089448)

Wasn't this on something like Charmed or one of those silly witch TV shows???

srb2 (1)

whirlibulf (911135) | more than 7 years ago | (#17089456)

There is a Sonic fan game called Sonic Robo Blast 2 available at http://www.srb2.org/ [srb2.org] . It's a 3d game based on the doom engine, and, to me, it feels exactly how Sonic should in 3d.

Re:srb2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17092392)

And I thought the official 3D Sonic games had bad controls...

3d (1)

SP33doh (930735) | more than 7 years ago | (#17090634)

I'll tell you what ruined sonic. in two letters

3d

Here's A New Follow-up (1)

racketboynick (460263) | more than 7 years ago | (#17090924)

Hey guys -- thanks for posting my article on Slashdot.
I've followed up on the original article with my thoughs on what Sega could do to bring Sonic back to his former glory while making the most of the modern consoles
http://www.racketboy.com/retro/2006/12/how-sega-ca n-bring-sonic-hedgehog-back.html [racketboy.com]

Funny (1)

MemoryDragon (544441) | more than 7 years ago | (#17090942)

That the article in its rant simply ommitted the excellent Sonic on the Nintendo Ds, this is probably the one all the Sonic fans have been waiting for.

Re:Funny (1)

racketboynick (460263) | more than 7 years ago | (#17090994)

Actually, I didn't omit it.
Read it again :)

"Sega's one redeeming endeavor has been the portable titles. The Sonic Advance series has at least replicated the original Sonic experience about as much as the GBA could, and Sonic Rush on the DS was probably the best Sonic game in over a decade. (Although, the really botched the new Sonic the Hedgehog Genesis for the GBA)

Sonic Advance and Sonic Rush are essentially the only Sonic games since the Genesis (sans the initial buzz of Sonic Adventure) that the majority of hardcore fans have actually spoke positively about. One would think that maybe Sega would try to go back bringing the series back to its roots more in order to succeed."

Cool to hate on Sonic (1)

BenoitRen (998927) | more than 7 years ago | (#17091234)

Yet another article hating on Sonic because it's cool.

One of the many arguments is that it should be like the older games, and then they reference the GBA games. Uh, they aren't like the older games. Sure, they're 2D, but are they well designed? It doesn't seem like it. Sonic has a kick move that brings him to a full stop, he can grind on rails, but only for about two times in the entire game. In general, the games seem to try to make you go as fast as possible, with boosters all over the place.

Sonic Adventure was a great game that admittedly had some bugs, especially with the camera. It was great to be able to go where you liked, and the story was nice. The game should be commended on how well it weaved together the viewpoint of six characters together. Though I admit that Big's fishing games weren't that exciting and didn't belong in there.

Sonic Adventure 2 did away with the exploration, focusing on levels. The gameplay was enhanced, but still with a somewhat dodgy camera. I thought it was great fun to play. I enjoyed E-102 Gamma's levels in the original, so imagine my joy to see expanded levels based on that premise. I'll admit that the treasure hunter levels regressed, though. Now you could only search one fragment at a time. Bummer.

Sonic Heroes went back to the roots, and I thought it was a great innovative game, using three characters instead of one. I enjoyed every bit of it. The camera wasn't that bad in this game, but then again, I played the EU version, which might have had some fixes. I didn't experience the popular "falling through the floor" bug. The problem was going so fast that until you learned to adjust to it, you would often run off a platform or make a bad jump.

I haven't played Shadow the Hedgehog, but I do intend to. However, at a lower price, because this game genuinely seems to have real problems. For example, the enemy can shoot farther than you.

Looking forward to Sonic on the Wii.

Re:Cool to hate on Sonic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17091680)

sorry to rain on your parade, but hating on Sonic Next-Gen isn't just cool; it's entirely valid and Sonic Team deserves every bit of this criticism.

Re:Cool to hate on Sonic (1)

superpulpsicle (533373) | more than 7 years ago | (#17095820)

I rented Sonic Heroes and was pretty impressed. It was 3D and fast and a little different. But yes I hated the other characters. I liked Sonic, tails and knuckles. But would never want to use all 3 at once.

Re:Cool to hate on Sonic (1)

BenoitRen (998927) | more than 7 years ago | (#17099872)

The article's author also states not wanting to play with multiple characters.

Why not? What's so bad about playing with multiple characters at the same time?

Re:Cool to hate on Sonic (1)

superpulpsicle (533373) | more than 7 years ago | (#17101142)

The other characters are identical in gameplay. They just look different and sound different when they give out their catch phrases.

omg (1)

anakin3303 (1035054) | more than 7 years ago | (#17091722)

OMG......i wish i was sonic for that moment...lol...and omg beastility?

Looks ok. (1)

sbigbrain (1035376) | more than 7 years ago | (#17098936)

It looks ok. The graphics are really cool, but it seems that they've come a long way from the classics. The only new one I've played is Sonic Heroes. I never finished it, but what I've played of it is good. It kinda sucks that they've put this new one in a really different looking world.
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