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VOIP to be Made Illegal in India

samzenpus posted more than 7 years ago | from the the-internet-is-not-for-talking dept.

Communications 258

Krish writes "Providers like Skype, Yahoo, Net2phone, Dialpad, etc. will not be able to offer VOIP in India under the proposed govt. clampdown. BPOs and other call centers will face the axe if they use any of the VOIP services provided by the above companies. It is not clear if this clampdown will affect regular home users."

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only donkey dongs use VOIP! (-1, Offtopic)

Asshat_Nazi (946431) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141576)

btw, i ate out your grandpas ass!!!



ENOUGH OF THIS GAY BANTER, ON WITH THE TROLLING!!!

8====D~~



During my years as a councilor at a Boy Scout camp, I have had the chance of many experiences. The chance to see naked boys in the community showers and the sight of sexy bodies going for a dip in the lake but one memory comes back clearer than ever.

First let me introduce myself. My name is Joshua, but friends call me Josh for short, I am 17 years old and about 5 foot 11 with a really toned body. I run 2 mile each morning right after I wake up to keep myself in shape. I had always loved the outdoors and I have plans to be a teacher when I got older so I thought teaching kids is going to be a great experience for me and that's how I became involved in the scouting program.

It was my second year at scout camp being a councilor and that comes with some major seniority, and that was the ability to have the over 21 staff buy me alcohol. One night after a stressful day of working with a bunch of crying whiny little kids I decided its time to crack open my 1/5 of jack. I sit back in my tent relaxed just slowly drinking the night away when Caleb popped his head into my tent. He was 16 years old with a body to die for, he was center for his High School football team and had a six
pack any guy would give his left nut for.

"Hey josh," Caleb muttered, I could tell he had been drinking, " come over to my tent, I cant find my flash light." So I stand to the best of my ability and stumble following him over to his tent, and fall in, shining my light around till he finds his. Then I take the last drink of my jack and lay the bottle down why I lay there looking up into the dark tent ceiling. All of a sudden my dick began to get rock hard as a thought of a plan. I pulled my 8 inch dick out and started jacking off and said "Caleb I am going to masturbate in your tent." "Na you wouldn't dare do anything like that" he replied as he shined his flashlight on my hand as I slowly pumped my cock. He looked at my cock with wide eyes as I began to pump a little faster. I saw him reach over and take off his boxers and began to play with his 5-1/2 inch cock. I laughed at him and said "Wow you really do have a small cock why don't you jack me off and see how it is to hold a real cock on this boy hands."

He looked at me and shook his head no, I reach over and forced his hand away from his cock and began to jack him off he followed suit and began to do the same with me. It feel good because he was going at a fairly fast pace and I began to moan softly. Then he did something I didn't expect he move his mouth over my dick and began to softly suck it. His bobbed his head up and down making sure to please my dick equally with his tongue. He moved his dick over my mouth and I began to suck it, taking it in inch by inch till I hit his pubes then I began to take it in and out slowly. I took my mouth off his dick and used my tongue to pleasure the left ball then the right, then taking them both into my mouth being careful. As we continued to 69 it up, I thought I heard a noise outside so I moved slightly and apparently he took this as a sigh to stop and got off, I was pissed so I grabbed his hand and placed it back on my cock as he began to jerk me off again he got up took off his boxers and said to me Fuck me josh, Fuck me hard"

I couldn't resist this little hot stud so I placed him on the floor and put my cock to his virgin hole and began to softly push inward. I heard him grunt softly as in pain and I stopped; keeping my cock still it was about half way in. Keep going I heard him mutter and I began to put more pressure till my pubes touched his ass. I said here we go as I began to slowly fuck this tight virgin man hole enjoying each pleasure able in and out I took. I began to pump faster and faster letting my balls made contact with his ass.

i am Cumming I muttered as I released 5 huge squirts of my man juice inside his virgin hole. I quickly drew out and turned him over and began to give him a blow job leaving nothing in question and within 30 seconds my mouth was filled full of this studs seed as I drank each gulp that he so graciously gave me. I gave him a firm kiss on the lips and said Good night my Caleb as I walked back to my tent and fell asleep at 2:09.

Re:only donkey dongs use VOIP! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17141720)

There needs to be something like a math problem presented as a slightly distorted image whenever you try to post on Slashdot. That way only those with reasonable intelligence can post.

Re:only donkey dongs use VOIP! (-1, Offtopic)

Propaganda13 (312548) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141886)

....but almost half the people in the world are below average intelligence. Is that really fair?

Re:only donkey dongs use VOIP! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17141948)

....but almost half the people in the world are below average intelligence. Is that really fair?

Absolutely not; we need something which would disqualify all but the top 15 percent.

Re:only donkey dongs use VOIP! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17142030)

I think we can safely add a rule to exclude anyone who uses a line from Ghostbusters in their sig.

Re:only donkey dongs use VOIP! (1)

Asshat_Nazi_v2.0 (989409) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141888)

you would be surprised at who trolls.

Re:only donkey dongs use VOIP! (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17141958)

No we wouldn't. Lonely, emotionally troubled males aged 16-45 aren't exactly rare.

Re:only donkey dongs use VOIP! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17141946)

There needs to be something like a math problem presented as a slightly distorted image whenever you try to post on Slashdot. That way only those with reasonable intelligence can post.
And you thought Slashdot had a liberal bias NOW... (ducks)

Re:only donkey dongs use VOIP! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17142138)

There needs to be something like a math problem presented as a slightly distorted image whenever you try to post on Slashdot. That way only those with reasonable intelligence can post.


Like that would help.

You know all those physics/math/cs people whose low UIDs used to frequently grace the discussions here? Who mostly disappeared when the troll and goatse.cx problem started getting bad? Where do you think they've gone? Think about it.

They're the trolls, man. They're the trolls.

Re:only donkey dongs use VOIP! (1)

Fruity McGayGay (1005769) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142308)

I'm the same dude as asshat_nazi. I have a 5-digit UID high karma alter-ego.

You're not too far off.

Oh the irony... (5, Funny)

grub (11606) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141610)


Call your VOIP carrier's helpdesk and you might get hold of some guy in India.

Re:Oh the irony... (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17141736)

Call your VOIP carrier's helpdesk and you might get hold of some guy in India.
LOL @ "might"

Re:Oh the irony... (2, Insightful)

Harmonious Botch (921977) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142254)

But now we are less likely to because at least one part of call center expenses in India are going to cost MORE now. The more I think of this silly law, the more I like it.

Your sig (-1, Offtopic)

penguinoid (724646) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142300)

Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Atheism is a religion like cleaning is an obsession. It all depends on how vital it is.

Oblig (4, Funny)

Swimport (1034164) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142406)

If VOIP is illegal, only criminals will have VOIP.

Just one more effort (4, Insightful)

zappepcs (820751) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141624)

of the uninformed to try to control what they have no clue about in order to protect outdated and now irrelevant business models... sigh

Re:Just one more effort (5, Insightful)

Atlantis-Rising (857278) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141678)

...that 'outdated and irrelevant business model' would be the government, seeing as they are, according to TFA, pissed off that the VOIP companies are not paying their taxes.

Re:Just one more effort (1)

bky1701 (979071) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141750)

Your point being? ;)

But seriously, this sounds like a violation of SOME trade agreement. Not everything people in your country use can be taxed all the time.

Re:Just one more effort (1)

Broken scope (973885) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141796)

Really? Try to tell a government that.

Re:Just one more effort (2, Funny)

Maxo-Texas (864189) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141856)

So when people play everquest and chat it should be taxable to?

And the irony of the low cost labor provider of the world being mad because of low cost (FREE) products is priceless.

Re:Just one more effort (2, Interesting)

Atlantis-Rising (857278) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141930)

I don't think anybody said that. This is, however, not just some random decision by the Indian government to OMG CENSOR TEH INTARWEB TUBES! as the headline pretends.

It's a standard, relatively sane, completely understandable move. Hell, I'm 90% sure the FCC has already done this.

Now, there are a lot of reasons why it's not a good thing. But that doesn't detract from any of the above.

Re:Just one more effort (1)

Maxo-Texas (864189) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141990)

Right now.

I'm sitting in everquest and listening to people from all over the world as well as we are on a raid.

Sam Malone Style, FREE!

How do you justify taxing something that's free?

Re:Just one more effort (2, Insightful)

Atlantis-Rising (857278) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142036)

You've never heard of proposals to tax work done in video games? The theory is, work is being done, and value is being accumulated from it. Therefore, that value should be taxable.

That is, after all, how taxes work.

Re:Just one more effort (1)

funkdancer (582069) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142294)

Well, will pay with my virtual gold coins then. If I could ever be bothered to hang up my sim racing gear long enough to reactivate my Level 60 Paladin. ;)

Re:Just one more effort (1)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142470)

Yes, and taxing this work will amount to CHILD LABOUR, since many people who play these games are young children. it doesn't take much imagination to see the PR nightmare i could spin up over that.

Indian government run by morons. (-1, Troll)

liftphreaker (972707) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141634)

What can one expect from a government run by incompetent morons? The babus and bureaucrats making these decisions probably have no clue what they're dealing with. They'll remain in the stone age for another 5000 years.

Good News for the rest of us! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17141636)

India has been getting too far ahead. Nice to see their Government ballsing it up.

Plus we have the benefit of making it more expensive for those damned Indian Callcentres:
  "And Sir would you be liking a Madras Curry with Pappadaums with your Timeshare Holiday?"

In classic Slashdot form... (1, Interesting)

bronzey214 (997574) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141642)

...I didn't read the article, but... WHY exactly is VOIP so bad that the government needs to ban it??

Re:In classic Slashdot form... (5, Insightful)

Atlantis-Rising (857278) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141658)

The short answer: Tax money. VIOP providers were not paying it, so the government is making them illegal.

Re:In classic Slashdot form... (4, Informative)

stoolpigeon (454276) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141660)

they aren't banning it. they are banning the use of voip that comes from outside the country, doesn't pay taxes, isn't bound by Indian law, etc.

Re:In classic Slashdot form... (4, Funny)

jrockway (229604) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141742)

And that's exactly why we have strong cryptography.

Government: You're illegally calling people.
You: No, that's e-mail.
Government: Oh.

Re:In classic Slashdot form... (2, Funny)

Ironsides (739422) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141794)

Here's the revised Government with half a brain:

Government: You're illegally calling people.
You: No, that's e-mail.

Government:You're sending e-mail for 8 hours a day and sending and receiving the same amount in email bytes?

Re:In classic Slashdot form... (1)

Atlantis-Rising (857278) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141838)

Or even:

Government: You're illegally calling people.
You: No, that's e-mail.
Government: Prove it, or go to jail.
You: ...er...
Government: Bye bye!

Re:In classic Slashdot form... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17141846)

Here's the British Government:

Government: You're illegally calling people.
You: No, that's e-mail.
Government:Turn over the cryptographic keys so that we know it's email, or spend the next 30 years in jail.

(that's right, in UK it's a crime to not turn over your cryptographic keys/passes.)

Re:In classic Slashdot form... (1)

dagamer34 (1012833) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141912)

wow, that's like saying, "hey, i want to incriminate myself."

Re:In classic Slashdot form... (0)

Atlantis-Rising (857278) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141970)

Not exactly. It's more like the government wiretapping your phone. The only reason the law exists requiring you to hand over encryption keys is because the government doesn't have the supercomputing strength availible to break it in a reasonable period of time.

The alternative, of course, is that the government can hold you without bail and put off your trial until its supercomputers finish decrypting your communications to be used as evidence.

Which would you rather?

Frankly, it's nothing at all like self-incrimination, either legally or logically.

The only similarities are at most superficial.

Re:In classic Slashdot form... (1)

jonwil (467024) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142420)

Actually, its more like having a wall safe and the government forcing you to open that safe.

The solution (at least for interactive communication such as voice, video, IM, IM file transfer, remote computer access/control etc) is to implement a system where providing the key is impossible. The 2 ends of the link (such as VoIP software and a VoIP server or whatever) would communicate and generate a shared secret key via Diffie-Hellman key exchange or similar. Then this shared secret key would be used to encrypt the communications. Once the communictions are over (say, the VoIP call is hung up), both ends forget the shared secret and no-one can ever decrypt the information again. Since the users never see the shared secret and are never given any options to store it permanently, it is physically impossible to provide decryption keys to law enforcement.

If someone made such a program using open, standard, well tested (and patent free) encryption algorithims and principles and made the program itself open source (as well as documenting the protocol completly), it would make it even harder to stop.

Re:In classic Slashdot form... (2, Interesting)

Atlantis-Rising (857278) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142466)

Then the government throws you in jail until it can forcibly decrypt the datastream, which is, if you're using a good cryptosystem, never.

That's why the british law is on the books- to prevent people from using systems exactly like this. Let's say you're charged with murder, but the evidence is locked up in this cryptostream. You can provide the keys, and have the government jail you for murder, or you can not provide the keys, the government, having no evidence, will drop the murder charge, and slam you with thirty years in prison for impropper use of crypto. You're punished the same either way.

Re:In classic Slashdot form... (1)

jrockway (229604) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142040)

> (that's right, in UK it's a crime to not turn over your cryptographic keys/passes.)

Who mentioned the UK?

The solution is to not know your own passphrase (as per OTR's encryption).

Re:In classic Slashdot form... (1)

svallarian (43156) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142394)

No no no, these are indian tech support we're talking about here. You know they can't say ANYTHING without spitting out an entire paragraph response to the simplest question like
"What is your name?"

So the bytes would be waaaay off.

Re:In classic Slashdot form... (2, Funny)

egr (932620) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142006)

Government: He's illegally calling people. Get him! You: No, that's e-mail. Government: He's sending e-mail. Get him!

Re:In classic Slashdot form... (1)

salesgeek (263995) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141848)

In other words: they are going censor the internet because they can't tax a foreign company. Nice.

Re:In classic Slashdot form... (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17142212)

In other words: they are going censor the internet because they can't tax a foreign company. Nice.

The United States does that also. [wikipedia.org]

The difference is, the Indian politicians are having a discussion and planning and what not. The US politicians just slipped the law into a "terrorism" bill at 9:30 p.m. the day before it got voted on, without discussion.

So if you live in the US, don't get to upset with the Indian government. The Indians are probably more free than we are.

Re:In classic Slashdot form... (1)

Archfeld (6757) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141934)

They are also attempting to ensure that all relevant emergency information is available to a call center should the need arise...Hard for 911 to find you if your call is routed via Uzbekistan, while you are in Auckland. There is also the issue of maintenance costs which are derived from licensee fee's.

Re:In classic Slashdot form... (3, Insightful)

Maxo-Texas (864189) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142010)

It used to be very expensive to build phone lines so they charged to make phone calls.

Since they charged a large amount of money, it was convenient to put a tax on that charge.

VoIP is basically free. If you want to pay someone for higher quality you can but there are so many ways to talk via voice over the internet now it's insane. I can't see how the indian government is going to do this against private individuals any more than they can stop porn, drugs, sex chat, etc.

I think they can make businesses use taxable voip, but data is data for private people.

Stigma of acquiring wealth (1)

louzer (1006689) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142464)

The average Indian civil servant still sees himself primarily as a regulator and not as a facilitator. He has not yet accepted that it is not a sin to make profits and become rich. The average Indian bureaucrat has little trust in India's business community. They view Indian businessmen as money grabbing opportunists who do not have the welfare of the country at heart; and all the more so if they are foreign businessmen. Thus VOIP is bad and must be banned according to the Indian government because it helps the "evil" businessmen make money.

It's not the phone company (3, Interesting)

WhiteDragon (4556) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141648)

I expected this was a phone company wanting to maintain their monopoly, but apparently it's the government wanting to capitalize on taxing VOIP services, and American (and other) providers are obviously not going to pay taxes to the government of India.

Re:It's not the phone company (1)

carpeweb (949895) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141748)

Lots of American multinationals pay taxes to foreign governments. In fact, the system of international taxation is mind-numbing. Although I think it might be shooting itself in the balls (by making Indian call centers more expensive), it's not surprising to see a government try to tax economic activity. To steal from Willie Sutton (an irony he certainly would have appreciated), "that's where the money is".

Although the article was written in a foreign language (English with Indian TLAs), I gather that domestic ISPs and telcos are subject to these taxes, so I'm sure that's part of the motivation. I didn't get far enough to see whether anyone considered just allowing the foreign invaders to play by the same tax rules.

FUCKIN-A YEAH!! (1)

Reverend99 (1009807) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141656)

This means it will cause it to be economically less reasonable to use foreign call centers to barage us with solicitations, and use them to off-shore jobs here. Best news I've heard all day.

Re:FUCKIN-A YEAH!! (0, Troll)

raju1kabir (251972) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141868)

I don't care about offshoring jobs and I don't have many problems with telemarketers, but I do find that almost all of my Indian call centre experiences are negative.

Every time I get routed to one, I end up talking to someone who has no power to do anything, no access to information beyond what I could get from the web or from the automated voice response system, and the critical thinking skills of a muffin.

Fortunately many companies seem to be backing off of their headling plunges into delegating crucial customer relations roles to unknown low-skilled workers on the other side of the planet. The reason they got in there was because there were a lot of English-speaking people who worked cheap, and now they're starting to realise those criteria alone weren't enough. There are other places (e.g., Philippines, Malaysia) that meet those requirements, and also feature governments that are open to foreign commerce and populations that are positively inclined toward the outside world.

I think this VoIP move by the Indian government reflects the reasons why call centre offshoring there has been a failure (and after working there, I could have predicted this a long time ago). Some broad generalisations that I will stand behind:

  • India is really a pretty xenophobic place, generally hostile to most everything non-Indian.
  • India is deeply conservative and fearful of change.
  • The Indian educational system penalises innovation and creative thinking.
  • Indian politics are always parochial. If a proposal doesn't somehow poke a stick in the eye of those bastards in the next village/city/state/country, then it's not going to pass.

This is the mentality that leads to shutting out VoIP services that could dramatically enhance the ability of Indian business to compete globally in new and exciting ways. Rather than eliminate economic friction by reducing taxes on services with a high productivity multiplier value, they would rather bureaucratise the sector into the ground and collect some short-term revenue from those damned foreigners.

Re:FUCKIN-A YEAH!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17142150)

Just 'cause:

  • America is really a pretty xenophobic place, generally hostile to most everything non-American
  • America is deeply conservative and fearful of change.
  • The American educational system penalises innovation and creative thinking.
  • American politics are always parochial. If a proposal doesn't somehow poke a stick in the eye of those bastards in the next village/city/state/country, then it's not going to pass.


Wow, looks like we have a lot in common :-P

Re:FUCKIN-A YEAH!! (2, Insightful)

raju1kabir (251972) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142198)

  • America is really a pretty xenophobic place, generally hostile to most everything non-American
  • America is deeply conservative and fearful of change.
  • The American educational system penalises innovation and creative thinking.
  • American politics are always parochial. If a proposal doesn't somehow poke a stick in the eye of those bastards in the next village/city/state/country, then it's not going to pass.

Sorry, I don't live in the USA, so your clever riposte falls a little flat. But I've worked there too, and it's pretty clear that your points don't stand up.

I cannot think of a country that rewards innovation and creative thinking more. Or one that's borrowed more liberally from the people, ideas, and other strengths of the rest of the world.

While there can be an ugly us-vs-them aspect to politics, especially the speechmaking, it is a fact (amply demonstrated by the success of many policies) that genuinely productive solutions quite often win out.

"India is really a pretty xenophobic place..." (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17142324)

"...generally hostile to most everything non-Indian."

Which is of course why most Indians would gnaw their own arms off for the chance to live just about anywhere but India.

No?

Re:FUCKIN-A YEAH!! (2, Informative)

The Cydonian (603441) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142404)

There are other places (e.g., Philippines, Malaysia) that meet those requirements

Malaysia (and Singapore) regularly outsource call center jobs to India. Should know; just got off the phone with someone from the National Kidney Foundation.

I think this VoIP move by the Indian government reflects the reasons why call centre offshoring there has been a failure

And yet, salaries are rising rapidly back in Hyderabad; folks getting 50% or a 100% raise is not unheard of. A top job in an Accenture in Singapore will pay you S$3.5k pm at the max; a job at Microsoft's India Development Center will give you 14 lakhs per annum at the very least. (For the rupee-challenged, INR 140000 pa > SGD 3500 pm)

The boom will stay for more time before it becomes bust is my prediction.

Will This Stop DISH Cold Calls? (1)

SRA8 (859587) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142502)

I get a single cold call a day, every single damn day, from DISH network resellers looking to sell me sattellite service. They call every single day for the past 4 months despite repeated requests to get off their list and despite me being on the Do Not Call List. Why? Because being in India, they simply do not care about the US Do Not Call List. Perhaps more expensive VoIP will make such telemarketing calls less prevalent? YES!

Re:FUCKIN-A YEAH!! (1)

Kadin2048 (468275) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141998)

It makes a lot of offshoring more difficult, too. A lot of callcenter operations use VOIP in order to connect the center back to the U.S. Lack of VoIP could really change the balance of advantages away from BTO stuff in India. (Perhaps in favor of the Philippines or some other Asian countries with substantial English-speaking populations.) I can't imagine anyone choosing to use the POTS system if they didn't have to, particularly if the load is basically constant and predictable.

Can't say I'm disappointed. If the Indians want to shoot themselves in the foot, they can have at it.

good! (0, Troll)

ILuvRamen (1026668) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141686)

as an American, I have to say that anything that keeps Indians off the phone is good cuz we've had just about enough of talking to them as it is.

"How to keep India poor?" Interfere with commun... (3, Funny)

Futurepower(R) (558542) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141726)

Ask yourself, self, how could this happen?

Some rich and powerful government leaders were sitting around saying, "How do we keep India poor?" After many weeks of deliberation (They aren't very intelligent, of course.) they decided, "That's it! We'll interfere with cheap communication."

Network neutrality (-1, Offtopic)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141728)

Things like this are why network neutrality are important.

Re:Network neutrality (3, Interesting)

Atlantis-Rising (857278) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141820)

This has absolutely nothing to do with network neutrality. This has to do with companies that are doing business with Indian companies not paying Indian taxes.

That is what is making the Indian government pissed. They are not trying to restrict VOIP for the hell of it. They just want what any government wants- to regulate it and tax it, and if they can't, to make it illegal and then extract fines from it.

Re:Network neutrality (2, Interesting)

Nataku564 (668188) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142034)

Why not tax instant messaging then ... I mean, thats communicating information across the internet too.

ZOMG! People exchanging ideas! This is bad, they may get smart and overthrow our corrupt government!

Re:Network neutrality (1)

Atlantis-Rising (857278) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142062)

Because, according to the article (which is detail sparse), these companies are being paid for providing this service. The companies are not remitting the propper taxes, acquiring the propper licenses, etc, etc. How hard is this for some people to understand?

Re:Network neutrality (1)

Nataku564 (668188) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142152)

The article doesn't mention whether it was a paid service or not. I get the feeling that free skype users (the ones that don't bridge to telephone) will be out of luck just as much as the ones who pay to talk to landlines.

Re:Network neutrality (2, Informative)

Atlantis-Rising (857278) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142208)

Then you were not reading the article. Quoth the article:

The government move, when implemented, will fulfil a long-pending demand of internet service providers (ISPs). Internet Service Providers Association of India president Rajesh Chharia said: "It is essential that the government seeks this undertaking from call centres as these foreign service providers do not possess the requisite licences as mandated by the Government of India for Indian ISPs."

Once this proposal is implemented, the government, in case of an emergency, would be able to trace details of all internet telephony minutes. This is because, when minutes are purchased from authorised players, the company is mandated to provide any data pertaining to the use of internet telephony like call detail record, if required by the security agencies.


The two sections I bolded implied that money is indeed being paid, and further, this section does too:
...were also causing great revenue loss to the government as they did not pay the 12% service tax and 6% revenue share on internet telephony.

How do you pay a tax on something that you're not paying for at all?

Re:Network neutrality (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17142098)

This has nothing to do with the bill that didn't pass in the U.S., but it does have something to do with what the bill stood for, companies(in this case governments) shouldn't be able to charge more/less based on what is going through the wires. I think that is what he meant by "Network neutrality", or neutrality of networks.

Re:Network neutrality (1)

Atlantis-Rising (857278) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142226)

No, I realized what he meant the first time, and he (and you) are still wrong. This has nothing to do with neutrality of networks. It has to do with taxation and regulation of international businesses, plain and simple. The fact that it has to do with the internet is purely incidental.

Re:Network neutrality (1)

Kopl (1027670) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142272)

OK, this is something that they charge for, your right.

Yet another sensationalistic headline... (0, Redundant)

2br02b (448267) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141734)

FTFA

companies will also have to give an undertaking that they will not use the services of unlicensed foreign service providers
This is about BPOs being told to stop using unlicensed VOIP service providers. VOIP is certainly not illegal in India.

Only UNLICENSED VOIP to be made illegal in India (5, Informative)

Somegeek (624100) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141802)

Another exciting headline that unfortunately has little to do with the truth.

In the linked article it states that goal of the proposed legislation is that call centers are not going to be allowed to continue to use unlicensed VOIP. That is a huge difference from the Slashdot headline claiming that India is banning VOIP.

India is quite happy to have them use domestic Indian VOIP providers thereby allowing the government to tax and regulate them. Much like we have in the US where the FCC regulates and taxes VOIP providers.

Sorry, I'm confused. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17141908)

In the linked article it states that goal of the proposed legislation is that call centers are not going to be allowed to continue to use unlicensed VOIP. That is a huge difference from the Slashdot headline claiming that India is banning VOIP.


Not that I've read TFA, but what's "licensed" VOIP?

I don't think any VOIP I've used has ever been "licensed" by anyone.

Re:Sorry, I'm confused. (1)

Somegeek (624100) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142194)

Not that I've read TFA, but what's "licensed" VOIP?
It would be an ISP that is licensed by some government body in India to provide VOIP services. From what I've heard it seems that India really likes to license and tax things. There was a story a few months ago where Indian ISPs were going to be taxed for generating "Light Energy". http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/10/10/173221 7 [slashdot.org]

Re:Only UNLICENSED VOIP to be made illegal in Indi (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17141914)

[...]like we have in the US where the FCC regulates and taxes VOIP providers.

When did that start happening?

Re:Only UNLICENSED VOIP to be made illegal in Indi (1)

BillEGoat (50068) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142086)

VoIP in the US is not taxed. The only regulation extended to VoIP providers in the US is on interconnection to the PSTN, in which case the provider must also make Enhanced 9-1-1 service available. e.g. Skype-to-Skype is not regualted by the gov't.

Re:Only UNLICENSED VOIP to be made illegal in Indi (2, Insightful)

Somegeek (624100) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142298)

VoIP in the US is not taxed.
We are not yet actively paying the tax, but the FCC regulations have been in place since June '06 and the day is approaching. Unless Congress does something to block it. From what I have read I agree that the current regulations do not affect P2P VoIP like Skype to Skype.

Satyagraha (1, Insightful)

elronxenu (117773) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141828)

Time for some peaceful resistance, I think.

You are, of course, shitting us. (0, Troll)

PHAEDRU5 (213667) | more than 7 years ago | (#17141894)

If you think the average Indian on the street can't out-think the average Indian in Government, well, you just haven't met - wossname - Ghandi.

troll?!??!? (-1, Flamebait)

PHAEDRU5 (213667) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142018)

Mohammed H. Islam, you are some pathetic goatfucker! (Hey! How's your sister?)

Did you even bother to read the sentence fully, or are you one of Muktada's smelly volunteers?

Postscript: House defended by Smith&Wesson....

Re:troll?!??!? (1)

jack_csk (644290) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142332)

Excuse me, but then what was the relationship between Islam and India, besides some Indians are Muslim?

I mean, last time I check, they were not even consider an Islamic country.

Misleading summary. VoIP is not illegal in India (1)

Puchku (615680) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142000)

The article clearly points out that VoIP is not illegal in India. What is illegal is the BPO and KPO industry using unlicensed ISP's to carry their VoIP calls. The BPO and KPO industry racks up millions of minutes a month, and the goverment naturally wants them to comply with the law, so that they can be taxed. VoIP is not illegal, is it regulated, and taxed, and if a large company tries to avoid paying that tax, then well, they will be penalized. This DOES NOT affect home users at all. We can use Skype for as long as we like without paying any taxes or fees..

'Internal' communications (1)

GryMor (88799) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142082)

It wasn't clear from the article, but does this apply to a companies internal VOIP system that doesn't use ANY service provider? Ignoring call centers for the moment, what does this mean for VOIP connections that don't (and can't) touch POTS, don't cost anything, and are purely software?

Question? (1)

emmp (1032154) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142096)

For anyone who knows or can speculate, how would this affect services like msn/yahoo/aim voice chat? Is this legislation mainly targeted at businesses or are consumers f*cked as well?

To be honest, I really don't see msn/yahoo/etc. paying a tax to the Indian government in order to continue providing free basic chat/voice service.

Re:Question? (2)

abaweja (1012507) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142184)

This doesn't affect internal voice links connecting indian and abroad offices. Also it doesn't affect Yahoo, Skype, MSN etc free service usage by companies or home users.
Its like if a VOIP service provider sells a service to anyone in europe they have to pay VAT there, same is true for India but they are not doing it. In India lergest basic telephony and mobile phone providers and Internation Long distance backbone providers are providing VOIP services also. So it not like AT&T lobbying against VOIP services in india, they themselve are VOIP providers.

Funny as hell (1, Flamebait)

NineNine (235196) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142116)

Actually, when I read this, I couldn't help but laugh at all of the dumb companies that thought that they could save money by investing in what is still, essentially, a third world country. They should've realized that a few McDonald's and a rudimentary grasp of English doesn't make a country a first world country, (a good place to do business). I hope the backwater Indian government continues to tax "outsiders" in their own provincial way so that these stupid companies will learn their lessons. I think that India has a LONG way to go before it should be considered as any kind of technological powerhouse, and I think that this is a strong sign that that is true.

Re:Funny as hell (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17142320)

Oh yes. How could we forget? McDonald's and grasp of English fooled all Indians into believing that they are a powerhouse!

I pity those poor French people and Japanese :( They'll never be a powerhouse, what with their non-existent English skills.

Oh wait. By that yardstick, India is a powerhouse. Let me look at the checklist

1. McDonalds - YES
2. English - Better than in France or Japan!

I must say NineNine has evolved a whole new yardstick for economic and technological development. Kudos!

Re:Funny as hell (1)

The Cydonian (603441) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142446)

I hope the backwater Indian government continues to tax "outsiders" in their own provincial way so that these stupid companies will learn their lessons.

Let's just say that beyond a certain point, you can't ignore a billion people's worth of a market anymore. Especially if they're actively buying tech goods, and are looking out heavily yada yada.

Re:Funny as hell (5, Insightful)

smallpaul (65919) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142512)

Actually, when I read this, I couldn't help but laugh at all of the dumb companies that thought that they could save money by investing in [India]

There is no question that companies are saving (and making) money by investing billions in India. A few VOIP taxes are not going to change that.

[India] is still, essentially, a third world country.

Nobody said otherwise. India is a developing economy. You have a very strange understanding of economics if you think that you cannot make money in a developing economy. Look at the bushfulls of money that have been made in the last 50 years in (e.g.) Korea, Saudi Arabia, Ireland, China, etc.

They should've realized that a few McDonald's and a rudimentary grasp of English doesn't make a country a first world country, (a good place to do business).

Rapidly growing economies are precisely where you go to do business.

I hope the backwater Indian government continues to tax "outsiders" in their own provincial way so that these stupid companies will learn their lessons.

America's backwater government also taxes "outsiders" in a provicial way. Haven't you heard about Bush's protectionism: http://www.progress.org/2003/trade12.htm [progress.org]

I think that India has a LONG way to go before it should be considered as any kind of technological powerhouse, and I think that this is a strong sign that that is true.

India's software industry alone is worth $20 billion. Tata infotech took 23 years to make its first billion and 23 months to make its second. Is that a powerhouse comparable to the American industry? Probably not. Does it matter? India's tech industry is strong, healthy and growing, no matter how much you might wish otherwise. Save your schadenfreude for someone who deserves it. You might want to read this to learn what's really going on in India: http://www.economist.com/business/PrinterFriendly. cfm?story_id=5300960 [economist.com]

Re:Funny as hell (2, Interesting)

ashwinds (743227) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142518)

I agree that India does throw up the occassional barriers of trade when it sees some revenue opportunities subverted. the provincial attitude could well be our inheritance from our being a colony of a "first world" nation, the Brits. But I cant understand how a "first world country" can put of barriers of entry of people in the form of demeaning and draconian visa policies and pretend it encourages business. In the garb of protection of intellectual rights, patents have been awarded for even common knowledge and expects other nations to honour it. If all that means being "first world", thank you very much but we like our third world low life as it is. Every country creates barriers to protect and/or propel its own industry - being "third world", "first world", having McDonalds, knowledge of English has nothing to do with it. Titles like technological powerhouse, "first world" etc. are transitional and mean nothing over time - it would be nice, but its a rather small objective.

voip in india (1)

dotslasher_sri (762515) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142156)

As far as i know voip is legal in india until you touch the POTS network in India. For calls going outside of india using VOIP is legal because they are not using POTS to deliver the calls. Where as calls placed using VOIP to india have to pay tax to use POTS. Otherwise it is illegal.

Anyone who knows more about this care to shed some light?

Their people are starving! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17142164)

Hey India: stop wasting time with computers, VOIP, space exploration and other Western luxuries and start feeding your goddamn people!

People people people (1)

zappepcs (820751) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142218)

VoIP in some countries as well as MP3 audio are just the kind of thing that upsets the apple cart. The apple cart being the status quo tax base. When governments and businesses see that there previously standard revenue stream is being bypassed, they simply have to 'change the laws' to make sure their pork barrel is still fat with money.

The point being: Each new invention based on the Internet will cause trouble somewhere if not everywhere. When a tax revenue is removed, they will move to create a new one or shut off the mechanism that stopped their old tax revenue. This, is blatant evidence that the government bodies as well as industry bodies, are simply not prepared to move with the changes or offer relevant services IAW current technology.

Who do we have to blame for this? All of the government officials that were voted into office, or otherwise. They have BLATANTLY failed to pro-actively represent their constituents.

Yes, I mean that. If they are behind the times by more than 3 months, they are living in and supporting a system that is fundamentally incapable of supporting your business and financial needs in the coming months. It is their ignorance that is now fscking up the finance sector and inhibiting business growth. Lets not even mention how backward governance is incapable of providing appropriate health care at reasonable costs....

Damn, I'm not even liberal and I can see where technological bassackwardness is harming all in the society... sigh

When will we learn? Perhaps we should force congressional electees to watch 500 episodes of star trek?

signed: apathetic

Re:People people people (1)

emmp (1032154) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142504)

What does any of this have to do with VOIP in India?

These companies are offering a non-free VOIP service in India, and their government expects that service to be taxed. There's no conspiracy here.

Move along.

Slashdot mantra (1)

joe slacker (1036082) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142224)

1. Post an article about India
2. Watch as the bashing ensues.
3......
4. Profit!

Re:Slashdot mantra (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17142354)

1. Post an article about India
2. Watch as the bashing ensues.
3. Get H1B Visa
4. Profit!

Governance is also needed (1)

modmani (1036674) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142228)

It is not that voip has completely become illegal is what the article posts, In fact it means that we need the service providers to be a company binded by the national laws to fight terrorism in case needed, Ofcourse revenue sharing proposal from the government is very bad.

No freaking way... (1)

(H)elix1 (231155) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142342)

As someone from the US who gets sent on trips to help partners in India, this would be insane. Depending on the network, calls ranged from $7-11 USD a minute, setting a company record when we got the bill since the blackberry seemed to hop to a new network every other call. I'll use VOIP via Google talk to chat with my family - without that, I'll be damned if they get me on site again. Penny wise, pound foolish. It was bad enough to pay $20 USD a day at the hotels for net access to do VOIP....

in other news (1)

technicalandsocial (940581) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142376)

Dell just got their new helpdesk telephone bill and have decided outsourcing was not such a great idea.

VOIP in india (2, Interesting)

chrisranjana.com (630682) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142438)

The companies will also have to give an undertaking that they will not use the services of unlicensed foreign service providers such as Net2Phone, Vonage, Dialpad, Impetus, Novanet, Euros, Skype and Yahoo.
What is it that prevents the above companies becoming licensed ? and hereby bringing the total license fee payable to the Indian govt and finally bringing joy to all !

The Double-Edged Sword (1)

dasunst3r (947970) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142480)

While it is good for those who do not like off-shoring and those money-grubbing you-know-whats the telecom companies are, it is bad because it will drive prices here up because of the increased costs of service and could cause a loss in jobs. Those ungrateful twots are going to get it soon... I see pink slips being flown in by helicopter.

In a way, it makes sense.... (1)

ravee (201020) | more than 7 years ago | (#17142500)

The VoIP could very well be the death of the telecommunication industry in India. Consider this fact - a call to the US can be made just for Rs 5 a minute using VoIP compared to Rs 20 a minute using land line or even more using mobile phone. And over the years, the quality of voice in VoIP has significantly improved.

The booming telecommunication industry in India is going through a flux and will not be able to bear this setback of allowing VoIP calls which will cut into their margins unless of course they also provide their customers VoIP handsets. More over, the BPOs can very well afford to use the land line phones to communicate with their contacts abroad.
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