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Vista an Uneasy Sleeper

CmdrTaco posted more than 7 years ago | from the just-like-most-3-year-olds dept.

Windows 395

Emmy King writes "

One thing we just can't wrap our mind about is the terrible, broken, and completely pitiful support for waking Vista up from a Deep Sleep or hibernation.
Anytime you attempt to wake Vista up from Hibernation or "Deep Sleep" (S3-induced sleep mode), it dies. It's either a BSOD, or a driver error, or a broken network, no DWM, lack of sound... the list goes on, and on. So much for an operating system to "power" the future! (No pun intended!) That's with properly-signed drivers and no buggy software on multiple PCs..."

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Linux (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17183912)

Linux: Ritalin for your new vista box

Re:Linux (4, Funny)

WilliamSChips (793741) | more than 7 years ago | (#17183916)

Linux: It doesn't suck.

Re:Linux (1, Informative)

Loco Moped (996883) | more than 7 years ago | (#17183940)

Linux: It doesn't suck. Indeed. Ubuntu 6.10 wakes up from hibernation just fine, and quickly, even on my old computers. How hard can it be?

Re:Linux (4, Funny)

WindozeSux (857211) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184006)

How hard can it be?
When Ballmer is throwing chairs all over the office, it is pretty hard to program ACPI stuff. :-)

How hard can it be? (5, Interesting)

Marbleless (640965) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184320)

> Linux: It doesn't suck. Indeed. Ubuntu 6.10 wakes up from hibernation just fine, and quickly, even on my old computers. How hard can it be?

How hard? Very!

Linux has had 2 (3?) separate attempts to get hibernate support working properly and while it is pretty good now it still isn't perfect.

Re:How hard can it be? (1)

TheShadowzero (884085) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184504)

Point in case: my experience with Fedora shows that hibernation/sleep is still not perfect. Especially with Beryl and/or a USB wi-fi adapter with ndiswrapper.

Re:How hard can it be? (5, Insightful)

hanssprudel (323035) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184518)

How hard? Very!

You are right about this. It isn't hard for anybody with a bit of coding experience to realize that trying to freezedry, serialize and then defrost an entire multitasking OS full of running tasks and hardware is a very difficult task. Especially when computers today are often busy talking to other computers (you can't really expect every TCP connection to suddenly spring to life where it was).

That said, Ubuntu 6.10 does hibernate very, very, well. Try it.

Not quite (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17184032)

Make that:
Linux: It sucks less.

Re:Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17184078)

All operating systems suck. Only some suck less than others.

Re:Linux (1, Insightful)

bmo (77928) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184102)

"Linux: It doesn't suck."

No...NO.

They ALL suck. It's just a matter of degree. Indeed the motivation of people migrating from Win3.1 to Win95 was that 95 "sucked less" and the remark was so common that I swear it became a Microsoft marketing line.

All operating systems suck. You can always point to a particular failing of an OS and say that part sucks or that part has less or more suckage than a corresponding function in another OS.

That said, many OSes, especially OS/X, Linux and the BSDs contain less total amounts of suckage than anything coming out of Redmond at any price.

--
BMO

Re:Linux (2, Funny)

Ucklak (755284) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184540)

Indeed the motivation of people migrating from Win3.1 to Win95 was that 95 "sucked less" and the remark was so common that I swear it became a Microsoft marketing line.

They say each successive version is "more stable and secure!"

Why are you even putting it in sleep mode (-1, Troll)

Hubbell (850646) | more than 7 years ago | (#17183946)

to begin with? Sure it sucks that their support of the feature isn't fully working, but why in the wide wide world of sports are you putting it in sleepmode?

Re:Why are you even putting it in sleep mode (2, Informative)

EsbenMoseHansen (731150) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184140)

[...] but why in the wide wide world of sports are you putting it in sleepmode?

It might be the end of the day, time to go home, huggle the wife and get some sleep and stuff? Nice to have everything the way you when tomorrow morning.comes. Or your server might need replacing the UPS. Hibernate is one easy way to get this done.

Just guessing, of course. I use hibernation every day with my Debian laptop.

Re:Why are you even putting it in sleep mode (0)

Hubbell (850646) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184184)

I just shut my monitor off and go to sleep usually. Sleep mode to me is just another worthless feature.

Re:Why are you even putting it in sleep mode (1)

DoorFrame (22108) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184272)

You don't have a laptop, do you?

Re:Why are you even putting it in sleep mode (1)

Hubbell (850646) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184314)

Nope, and if you're leaving your laptop on just plug it into the wall and leave it on works with a screensaver yes? The little I know about Sleep mode tends to lean towards the lolworthless side, so if you have any info I have not yet been made privy to then please divulge it good sir!

Re:Why are you even putting it in sleep mode (1)

EsbenMoseHansen (731150) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184398)

I just shut my monitor off and go to sleep usually. Sleep mode to me is just another worthless feature.

That method wastes a fair amount of power. I prefer the way I go now: I close the lid, the computer hibernates, on the morning, I open & press the power button, finds & plugs in the mouse and power, say good morning on so on... and then the laptop is good to go.

Also, stuffing the laptop in a bag without powerdown would make it rather hot?

I wish I could do this with my main computer, but alas, the one piece of proprietary software (nvidia's drivers) prevents this.

Slashdot Ramps Up the Vista FUD (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17183948)

No surprise to see that around the time Vista releases, slashdot will turn up the FUD campaign as hard as they can.

When Microsoft badmouths Linux, it's evil, evil FUD from the Borg, but when slashdot does it, it's simply informing their Linux using readers of the deficiencies of Vista.

And they'll link to blogs or any other source of unknown reputation to smear Vista as best as they could. Sad.

Re:MSN Ramps Up the Linux FUD (0, Troll)

kryten_nl (863119) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184070)

No surprise to see that around the time Linux releases, MSN will turn up the FUD campaign as hard as they can. When Linus badmouths Vista, it's evil, evil FUD from the communists, but when MSN does it, it's simply informing their Vista using readers of the deficiencies of Linux. And they'll link to blogs or any other source of unknown reputation to smear Linux as best as they could. Sad.
There, fixed your typos for you ....

(Slashdot -> MSN; Vista -> Linux; Microsoft -> Linus; Linux -> Vista; Borg -> Communists)

Re:MSN Ramps Up the Linux FUD (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17184166)

Those were no typos. I just destroyed you!!!

BTW, it's funny how the parent is flamebait, while replacing a few words makes you insightful. Moderators, make up your mind.

Re:MSN Ramps Up the Linux FUD (1)

Goaway (82658) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184496)

Congratulations! You have been awarded the coveted Slashdot Groupthink Of The Week award!

Re:Slashdot Ramps Up the Vista FUD (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17184074)

When did microsoft send out the memo that telling the truth about a Vista product is now to be called FUD?

Dammit! I miss all the good memos!

Re:Slashdot Ramps Up the Vista FUD (1)

geoff lane (93738) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184164)

MS claims that Vista is the cure for everything from Global Warming to the common cold.

Sometimes you just have to hold a company to its promises. If the OS is released, it is being installed on computers that will be sold for this Christmas. If there are bugs that affect simple operations it is a serious problem.

Re:Slashdot Ramps Up the Vista FUD (1)

Meatloaf Surprise (1017210) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184340)

MS claims that Vista is the cure for everything from Global Warming to the common cold.

Of course Vista will be a cure for global warming! Think of all of the computers that will be rendered useless by this OS and will be powered down.

And with 9 shut down options to boot... (4, Funny)

192939495969798999 (58312) | more than 7 years ago | (#17183950)

So which of those 9 shut-down options can we eliminate now? Probably all but the one that goes "shut the hell off"?

Re:And with 9 shut down options to boot... (4, Funny)

Frumious Wombat (845680) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184298)

They have to keep it, as it's an important usability option. Now your computer can act like you first thing in the morning. HAL, here we come!

S3 is not hibernate/deep sleep. (5, Informative)

Junta (36770) | more than 7 years ago | (#17183952)

S3 is plain old suspend/sleep. hibernate/deep sleep implies suspend to disk and total power down, and is S4. And the word S3-induced makes no sense, S3 is a state entered into, not an active thing.

Re:S3 is not hibernate/deep sleep. (3, Funny)

agent dero (680753) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184058)

You're absolutely right, they should put those in the shutdown menu as well.

Seriously, KDE can get it right, Mac OS X can get it right. What's so wrong with: Sleep, Restart, Shutdown (, Logout)

Press SHIFT to se all commands! (1)

newr00tic (471568) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184126)

In XP's shutdown-menu you can press and hold SHIFT to see more options, -the standby becomes hibernate, if nothing else-; isn't this a possibility in Vista, aswell?

Re:S3 is not hibernate/deep sleep. (-1, Flamebait)

gregorio (520049) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184214)

Seriously, KDE can get it right, Mac OS X can get it right. What's so wrong with: Sleep, Restart, Shutdown (, Logout)
The only thing wrong here is the fact that you bash Windows without never using it, meaning that you don't know SHIT about it. Even Windows 2000 haves these options, and they're named almost the same.

Re:S3 is not hibernate/deep sleep. (4, Informative)

jZnat (793348) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184312)

But he's criticising Windows Vista, not Windows 2000. Have you seen Vista's shutdown menu? Have you read the article on Slashdot about how much time and effort went into making it?

Re:S3 is not hibernate/deep sleep. (5, Interesting)

v1 (525388) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184476)

I was thinking about that, and it's actually pretty surprising how well some systems sleep. Mac OS X can sleep through anything short of a disk burn. I have seen very rare cases where vendor specific hardware didn't wake up properly, but that's probably a vendor driver issue. The OS seems to have its act together.

The new intel mac laptops now support hibernate instead of sleep. There is no longer a backup battery in the mac laptops. When you sleep them, they appear to go to sleep instantly, but they are not asleep yet. Display is off, sleep light is on (solid), but it is now paging memory off to disk, and will take my 2gb mbp about 25 seconds to do it. Then you hear the HD park and the sleep light begins pulsing. I try not to stuff it in the bag or jolt it around until it actually parks the HD.

This means you can pull the battery even, and power it back up later and instead of the usual 4 second wakeup time, you get about 20 seconds of watching a washed out image of the last screen, with a dotted progress bar. (looks a bit like a firmware update in progress) When the dots get to the right it's awake again. It has done this from a complete power-down and memory clear. Impressive. I have not noticed anything that fails to wake up properly even from this mode.

Another nice perk is that if you sleep it, and it loses power, (battery is removed by accident, someone kicks out the power cord etc) it simply appears to have shut off. (no sleep light) Then when you try to turn it back on, it just wakes from hibernation with the usual washed out screen and 20 second progresssbar instead of the quick wakeup.

I don't think the mac pro (the desktop) supports hibernate though, but it couldn't be that hard for them to add support for?

Re:S3 is not hibernate/deep sleep. (1)

hey! (33014) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184072)

According to TFA, the problem occurs under suspend (S3) or hibernate (S4).

IIRC "Deep Sleep" is not the official name of any ACPI state, although some refer to S3 that was ("deep" relative to S1).

bummer (4, Insightful)

yagu (721525) | more than 7 years ago | (#17183958)

Each new release, each patch, each service pack I keep waiting for the perfect, all-right-I'll-settle-for-well-behaved advanced power control. I find this unsettling Vista may not deliver. One "feature" I always treasure in Windows systems is its "better" support for power control.

At least Windows with its more cozy relationship with chip and BIOS industry supposedly offers ACPI for fast "sleep" and "rewake" functionality. In fact that was my trick way to get ACPI for linux when it was really important by running a vmware install of linux within a well behaved windows (not always as well behaved as I'd have wished, but better than the problematic ACPI linux support).

And now, out of the gates (sic) Vista may not deliver? That's going to leave a mark. I'd considered getting a machine for educational purposes (since I do support for everyone I know), but I'd considered waiting for some of the initial bugs to get ironed out. I just didn't expect this big of an initial speedbump. Guess there's not much to do but wait for Microsoft to get it right, or close to right.

Also, I thought I'd read they were offering super-sized power control a la scheduled up and down times, etc. More vaporware?

I'm still amazed they get to skate on this kind of stuff.

No buggy software? (0, Troll)

BadEvilYoda (935532) | more than 7 years ago | (#17183964)

Microsoft, meet PC. PC, meet buggy software. It's called "Vista", "Office", "Windows"...

Re:No buggy software? (1)

Devv (992734) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184122)

You know, "Vista" is "Windows" with new color. Just like the iPod nanos.

Oh! Almost forgot. There is that new startup sound as well. Maybe the hibernation would be less buggy if they spent less time developing a startup sound that doesn't annoy me. Fact is, every sound that a computer gives away without me clicking something and expecting a sound annoys me.

Screw Ups (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17183966)

So someone fucks it up and it's irrevocably broken? I've used both sleep and hibernate functions on my laptop since Vista was beta 1 and both have worked beautifully. Both features require decent support from the hardware, not just "signed drivers."

Re:Screw Ups (4, Interesting)

doctormetal (62102) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184086)

Same here. Both my notebook and desktop work without any problems with sleep and hibernation under vista.
Sleep did not work on either of them under winxp.
This sound like unfounded ms bashing by someone who got frustated.

Re:Screw Ups (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17184324)

Where did you get Vista?

MSDN (2, Informative)

MLopat (848735) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184530)

Windows Vista has been available to MSDN subscribers for a few weeks now. From Business Basic right up to Ultimate Edition, in both x86 and x64.

Ghee, I musta been sleeping... (3, Funny)

3seas (184403) | more than 7 years ago | (#17183980)

...I didn't know Vista was out yet. Thought it was still in the debuggng stage...

Or maybe I'm still sleeping and this is a dream. Vista released with major operational flaws. Now that's a Linux promotion!

Re:Ghee, I musta been sleeping... (1)

CortalUX (986836) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184024)

Very confusing situation - it's been released to manufacture at least. The Register article [theregister.co.uk]

Yes, Vista is available (well, it has been released to manufacture) and yes, MSDN subscribers are jamming its servers in an attempt to download a copy. And yes, corporate subscribers are allowed to get early access. But no, you can't go into a store and buy one, despite what it says on the adverts.

Re:Ghee, I musta been sleeping... (1)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184222)

It's out for business customers, but in unreleased according to many driver developers. ;-) (these consider January 2007 to be the official launch) So then you get these sort of problems I guess. This article is jumping way too quick to conclusions. Heck, this feature even works just fine here, so Vista is not at fault anyway, but it has to be some external source.

"no buggy software" (5, Funny)

woodhouse (625329) | more than 7 years ago | (#17183982)

I'd like to know where this completely bug free software comes from. The last completely bug-free software I saw was Hello World.

Re:"no buggy software" (1)

Kopl (1027670) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184128)

It may just not have any other software installed.

Re:"no buggy software" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17184138)

Microsoft should perhaps have set its priorities correctly. Oh say... not putting DRM (something not one single user ever asked for) at the top of the list of things it wanted in Vista... and say... making it fucking shut down properly.

Re:"no buggy software" (1)

DiamondGeezer (872237) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184152)

The last completely bug-free software I saw was Hello World.

Really? The last time I ran "Hello World" a virus did a low level format of my hard disk...or was that "ILOVEU"???

Re:"no buggy software" (1)

DohnJoe (900898) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184334)

no bug, the formatting was a feature....

Re:"no buggy software" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17184346)

"completely bug-free software I saw was Hello World." just FYI... I made a bug in Hello World when I made it first time.

Re:"no buggy software" (1)

jb.hl.com (782137) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184552)

$10 for the first person to include a buffer overflow error in a hello world program.

Re:"no buggy software" (2, Funny)

WheresMyDingo (659258) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184568)

The last completely bug-free software I saw was Hello World.

Nope, has an output format bug. It should end with an exclamation point, as in: "Hello World!"

Yeah yeah, M$ sucks (-1, Flamebait)

tsa (15680) | more than 7 years ago | (#17183992)

We all know M$ software sucks. So let me tell you about my MacBook Pro, the one God Steve made. If more than one person have (been) logged on, I can never get it to sleep by just closing the lid. It either doesn't go to sleep, or it wakes up after a few minutes. That's really bad, because then it gets hot and when you want to use it again, the battery is dead. I also have XP on that machine, and I have the impression that sleep mode in Windows works even better than in OSX.

My point is: nothing is perfect. Get over it.

Re:Yeah yeah, M$ sucks (0, Redundant)

Rocketship Underpant (804162) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184258)

Well, your Macbook is broken, and you should get Apple to fix it. I've never met a Mac user who would put up with that.

On the other hand, Windows users are used to that kind of thing. I presume you're new to the Mac?

Re:Yeah yeah, M$ sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17184402)

You just told us what the ACPI problem is : Intel's buggy ACPI hardware.
My PowerBook (and my sisters iBook) have no problems...
btw. my IBM ThinkPad A31p (SuSE 9.3) do sleep well too...

Re:Yeah yeah, M$ sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17184454)

Sounds like other users have administrative access on your laptop (why are other people logging in to your laptop?) and installed some software that runs continuously or at regular intervals. Perhaps a bit-torrent server? You may want to try using the sleep command from the Apple menu.

I sure hope you don't use the hibernate command in Windows. Welcome to file corruption city, particularly after multiple uses without restarting your computer.

Hibernating (2)

AlHunt (982887) | more than 7 years ago | (#17183994)

Once I went laptop-only, hibernating became the truth, the light and the way. Before that I never hibernated because I never shut the desktop off.

Interesting that TFA says Vista hibernated fine in beta but not in the release version. Oddly, Xp hibernated flawlessly on my laptop but openSuSE 10.1 hangs every time. No Linux distro hibernates this particular laptop (toshiba). We'll see if 10.2 will as soon as ATI gets done developing Vista drivers and gives us a driver for Xorg 7.2

Re:Hibernating (1)

Mad Merlin (837387) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184512)

Once I went laptop-only, hibernating became the truth, the light and the way.

Do you mean suspend? Hibernate is only very slightly better than shutting down and restarting again. Suspend on the other hand, is overwhelmingly fantastic.

"power" the future (3, Funny)

oKtosiTe (793555) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184002)

It doesn't look to me like there was no pun intended...

Why wake it up? (2, Funny)

dotancohen (1015143) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184030)

Why wake it up? Let it DIE DIE DIE....

OK, we get it. (0, Offtopic)

jb.hl.com (782137) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184066)

Slashdot's editors think Vista will fail and is shit. WE GET IT.

Now, please, find some worthwhile articles to post. This obsession with Vista-bashing is getting very very tiring.

Re:OK, we get it. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17184116)

Agreed. Is there a more unbiased site, similar in format to slashdot?

Re:OK, we get it. (1)

jb.hl.com (782137) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184136)

Not to my knowledge. I looked, briefly, at Digg, but the commenting is just horrible in every respect.

Re:OK, we get it. (1)

domovoyny (178190) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184134)

Thank you. There must be something else to complain about out there.

Blame ACPI, not Vista (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17184088)

I'm vociferously anti-MS; but in this case, I believe they deserve a small pardon. Go read the ACPI specifications [acpi.info] sometime. You will cry and beg for mercy. ACPI is horrible. Considering the small number of requirements the real world has for such an interface, the specification is vast beyond imagining. Linux has also had long standing problems producing a proper ACPI layer, for this very reason: ACPI is a pig.

Now it is worth noting that MS themselves contributed to the development of this specification. The cynical side of me believes that confounding the competition by way of impenetrable specifications is simply Microsoft's modis operandi. Look at Microsoft's OpenXML specification for example: while in theory it meets the European requirement for documenting file formats and protocols, in practice it's ~6,000 pages will certainly confound all but the most determined attempts at interoperability. But here's the rub: Microsoft has to eat their own dog food, and they are suffering the consequences. Microsoft's operating system and applications are becoming so piggish that even Microsoft can't manage them.

Not a single issue with sleep or standby (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17184096)

Huh. I've got two systems here with Vista running on them, a Dell e1505 notebook and a not-as-new homebuilt Athlon X2 system, and on both of them both hibernate and sleep "Just Work." In fact, Vista's been less problematic in all areas than XP could ever dream of being.

They don't quite Bill's 6 second boot time either - but both systems clock in right around 10 seconds, and that's pretty hard to complain about.

Re:Not a single issue with sleep or standby (1)

schnikies79 (788746) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184572)

I also have an Dell, though it's a e1405/640m. Hibernation and sleep mode work perfectly under vista. It worked perfectly under XP MCE also as far as I could tell.

Biased (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17184132)

"lack of sound" is not "dying". That's only in there to make the list longer, and that reveals the true intention of the article.

Is every commercial Linux distribution free of similar issues? No sir, it is not. Some enterprise distros even cost more than Vista. So let's not be biased and pathetic, but be open to the fact that the world isn't perfect, and that Vista is going to be ubiquitous whether your mistakenly elitist, cliquey nerd circle likes it or not.

fud ahead (5, Insightful)

Silicon Avatar (30968) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184144)

I've had fewer problems with my laptop since installing vista than I ever had with linux.

Pretty much everything worked 'out-the-box' -- including video (although I ultimately had to go download the vista drivers from ATI to get any kind of acceleration), sound, even suspend/sleep (although, microsoft renaming hibernate to sleep confused me at first).

There are plenty of places where microsoft seems to suck across the board .. but vista sleeping and waking up works just fine.

BTW - this sleeping is a feature that I never did get 100% working properly in linux -- and what I WAS able to get working right required I bounce around a few websites ultimatly doing my own research ... whereas it seems to work now in vista just fine?

Huh? (3, Insightful)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184154)

This feature works just great here, making it quite impossible it's due to Vista (unless my Vista is magic), but rather due to hardware drivers after all.

Re:Huh? (2, Informative)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184188)

Oh, and also note that many vendors consider January to be the launch date of Vista, such as Creative Labs and NVIDIA, and aren't focusing much on high performance and stable drivers for the RTM yet. With hibernation, at least three factors are essential: motherboard/BIOS support, correct BIOS settings, proper drivers. Many systems are lacking at least one of those, breaking the whole thing, causing e.g auto-reboots instead of power downs, etc. One could argue if MS shouldn't have used this feature so extensively with such poor support among manufacturers, but that's still an entirely different issue than a mythical "bug" in Vista.

Uneasy lies the head... (4, Funny)

hey! (33014) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184168)


Canst thou, O partial sleep, give thy repose
To the wet sea-boy in an hour so rude,
And in the calmest and most stillest night,
With all appliances and means to boot,
Deny it to a king? Then happy low, lie down!
Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown.


-Henry IV. Part II.

Re:Uneasy lies the head... (1)

Marbleless (640965) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184276)

Methought I heard a voice cry 'Sleep no more!
MacVista does murder sleep

Re:Uneasy lies the head... (1)

Bemopolis (698691) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184352)

Oh well *THERE'S* your problem.

You need to upgrade to Henry V. Don't forget to install the SP1, codnenamed Agincourt.

Bemo

Not exactly great with other OSes (4, Insightful)

evilviper (135110) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184194)

S3 (Suspend) doesn't exactly work wonderfully under other operating systems either. It's highly dependant on the motherboard chipset being used, and all attached hardware.

I would be quicker to condem Microsoft if Linux (or FreeBSD preferably) could properly suspend and resume ANY of my systems properly. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case.

FreeBSD-6.2 was the closest I got... If I pull out my videocard and use the onboard, it actually resumes successfully.

Though the onboard video (Savag) really blows, and I haven't yet found any version of X.org that doesn't regularly crash when using that particular driver.

And both the onboard nic, and my SBlive card stop working, and I have to manually reload the kernel module every time I resume...

And with all of those addeniums, that's the closest I've ever gotten to getting Suspend to work (and being forced to use the onboard video is a complete show-stopper). In fact, the latest snapshot of 7.0 was actually a downgrade, and wouldn't resume from S3 at all.

So the problem can't lie entirely with Microsoft (though they are partly to blame for the extremely lax and often Windows-centric ACPI practices). Hardware manufacturers bare a great deal of the responsibility for making their ACPI implimentations buggy as all hell to begin with... So much so that even Microsoft apparently can't even work-around it.

yeah, and whose fault is that? (0, Troll)

idlake (850372) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184322)

So the problem can't lie entirely with Microsoft (though they are partly to blame for the extremely lax and often Windows-centric ACPI practices).

That is precisely why it is Microsoft's fault: instead of having manufacturers code against a spec and a detailed test suite, they code and test against Windows. And Microsoft usually likes that. If they didn't like it, they'd create a public test suite and simplify the specs to the point where they can actually be implemented easily.

Re:yeah, and whose fault is that? (1)

Dhalka226 (559740) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184390)

And Microsoft usually likes that.

Why is it Microsoft's job to simplify a process so it can be better implemented by their competitors?

If you have evidence that they are demanding companies test against Windows exclusively, maybe you have a legitimate gripe. Short of that, they aren't doing anything wrong (by not forcing to a spec) that I can see. Besides which, it sounds like the companies are making a choice that testing against Windows and ignoring other markets is a cost-effective tradeoff.

Re:Not exactly great with other OSes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17184430)

I actually wonder why that is the case. In other areas (say, Java) you don't see anybody selling something claiming it's Java, when it's not (MS tried and didn't succeed).

If there was a correct, usable test suite for ACPI, there couldn't be companies selling crap, claiming it was ACPI (if ACPI was a licensable trademark or something like that).

You can do the same for other technologies by issuing a "compliance" stamp. Of course, if the stamp only is "Vista ready", you have to emulate that system's behavior (if you're Linux etc.).

Clearly, someone screwed up big time here.

Re:Not exactly great with other OSes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17184488)

If it's an s3 savage onboard, it may use a different s3 driver than the one named savage. My savage4 (extreme s540 *cries for wasted money*) works just fine jumpered for 4x agp.

Re:Not exactly great with other OSes (1)

fermion (181285) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184508)

I agree with you. A big problem on Linux and MS Windows is that OEM tend to use the cheapest parts available, even on machines they charge real money for, and then MS has to deal with it. OTOH, that is MS job. It is, after all, the OS of the commodity machine, and people choose ti because it is such a good value. Also, I wonder if we have these issue on hardware that is vista certified.

Just as a point of comparison, since you mention external devices and motherboards, I have a oldish Powerbook, say I got it in 2000. It is not in great shape, for instance the screen and internal DVD drive does not work. It has an external HD, and external DVD burner, an external bluetooth adapter, and external scanner, an external remote sensor, and is often hooked to my phone. Always wakes up. No problem. So, while it is easy to put the blame elsewhere, if the problem continue to be persistent, then there is something wrong with vista. To be fair, XP also does a bang up job with sleep on any hardware.

Re:Not exactly great with other OSes (1)

rjdegraaf (712353) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184524)

I would be quicker to condem Microsoft if Linux (or FreeBSD preferably) could properly suspend and resume ANY of my systems properly. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case.
I had hibernation working on Debian Sarge and just upgraded to Debian Etch (at the moment still in testing) and it works perfect too, see Debian Etch on Dell Inspiron 1150 [rdegraaf.nl] .

It's a conspiracy. Save us Cowboyneal !! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17184202)

Didn't you know with the latest version of vista you dont need silly things like sleep mode and the ability to turn it off. As a matter of fact just continue on with your daily life while we observe your species and report our findings to the little green men from Mars. And allow them to invade before you can put on your Tin Foil Hats.

Too funny (0, Flamebait)

tinymarc (1036490) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184212)

Well at least they don't fail to entertain.Muahahahaha :-))

No problems here at all. (4, Insightful)

Marbleless (640965) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184236)

We currently have 4 systems running Vista RTM and a not one of them has any problem waking up from hibernate. They are a mix of P4, AMD XP, and Athlons.

We had Vista RC1 & 2 on other systems, both desktops & laptops, and they behaved perfectly as well.

They all respond perfectly to Wake-On-LAN too. I know this because our tape backup system sends WOL packets to the systems to do the backups.

"Did anyone ever try this even once?" (3, Interesting)

dpbsmith (263124) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184240)

The bugs that always amaze me are the ones that seemingly would have been caught if anyone had ever actually tried the feature even once.

The only way I can account for something like this is that perhaps when a bug exhibits "protean symptoms" (fails in a different way every time), one could imagine in a completely bureaucratic, micromanaged corporate environment, instead of being registered as "this always fails," it could be registered as two hundred completely different bug descriptions, each specific description having been recorded only once and therefore judged by management to be unimportant.

"Fails with blue screen of death reading 0687FF13 618AC003 ..."

being regarded as a "different" bug from

"Fails with blue screen of death reading 31469B21 96CB2022 ..."

And before people start saying "blame the hardware," it's Microsoft's job to make sure that Vista does work on every PC certified for it. The days when DOS said "Toshiba DOS" or "PC-DOS" or "NEC DOS" are long gone. The name on the product is Microsoft WIndows and it's Microsoft's responsibility to see that it works.

It's Microsoft's choice whether to do this by making their code robust, or jawboning vendors at WinHEC, or pressuring vendors.

Re:"Did anyone ever try this even once?" (1)

hey! (33014) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184286)

Nah. It's the kind of bug that probably never affects some configurations of hardware and software.

I like to test my application software on a fresh virtual machine. You'd be surprised how often having a stray dll around saves your ass while you're running, so you need to test on a fresh machine.

ON the other hand, you can't test for every case where a stray dll will do you in. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the people having this problem are upgraders.

No input file specified. (1)

techmuse (160085) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184248)

Perhaps it does not wake up properly because, as the website states, there is "No input file specified."

And the site crashes (1)

strredwolf (532) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184252)

Well, there goes that blog entry. Entire site crashes and presents a "no input file specified" error. Nice.

Does this work in Linux? (1)

RiotXIX (230569) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184256)

Just wondering, I'm sure it does..someone show me...

I wasn't planning on laptop installs anyway (1, Informative)

gelfling (6534) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184268)

I don't have any laptops with the power to actually run Vista so how it comes out of hibernation is irrelevant. I don't think that Vista is going to be a laptop friendly OS in the first place given that internal hardware upgrades are nearly impossible.

Pun... (5, Insightful)

Five Bucks! (769277) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184302)

So much for an operating system to "power" the future! (No pun intended!)

The pun was clearly intended, otherwise there would not have been quotation marks around 'power'.

Why can't we all just be honest about our use of puns? Puns are not always bad. There's no need to be ashamed of them.

Re:Pun... (1)

Aeamarth (943939) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184556)

Puns killed my father and raped my mother... :(

How many times do you test before calling it truth (4, Informative)

HairyCanary (688865) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184304)

I just opened my laptop and turned it on, and it resumed from a hibernate just fine (running Vista Business release version). No blue screen, no network problems, it put me right back where I was before with a perfectly functional session. I hate Windows as much as every other Unix geek, but it sounds to me like this is a classic case of "not enough research" ... or if you prefer, "fud".

No Buggy Software (0, Troll)

MBHkewl (807459) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184328)

"That's with properly-signed drivers and no buggy software on multiple PCs..."

And by "no buggy software" you mean, Linux?

Only In America!! (1)

Tim Ward (514198) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184330)

For now, if you really need to keep your PC on all day and all night, stick to XP, Linux, Mac OS X, or SkyOS!

Global Warning Denial USA Rules OK!!

Breaking News Update: (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17184336)


Random blogger has computer problems, documents them on his homepage, blames manufacturer

Film at 11.00

Is it just me?... (1)

egr (932620) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184348)

...or "No input file specified."

Questions about sleeping (2, Informative)

LiquidCoooled (634315) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184374)

I am always uneasy when business customers ask about sleep, heres a few of the things which bug me

What happens with network applications (take google earth as an example - it connects and logs in at program start)?
How about a domain?
What happens if you go to sleep on one domain and wake up plugged into another?
What happens when you wake up outside the login hours?
What happens if your server slot is taken for an application (because you disconnected and someone else took it)?
What happens if you are editing a networked (word etc) document at the time, can people edit it whilst you are asleep?
Will your application pick up where it left off or display the edited document?

Its things like this which prevent us from recommending sleep or hibernate to our clients.

If the hibernate just allows the core OS to be brought up without problems then that doesn't help people who use their computers too much.

And this is why... (2, Funny)

buddyglass (925859) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184388)

...we wait for Vista SP1 before making the jump.

Also, because DX10 cards (and titles) will be ubiquitous by then.

"He's resting." (2, Funny)

overshoot (39700) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184394)

"No, it's not."

Why do I have this urge to post the entire Monte Python "Dead Parrot" sketch? [mtholyoke.edu]

Apparently ... (2, Informative)

eck011219 (851729) | more than 7 years ago | (#17184438)

... the poster's blog is hosted on a Vista box, as it seems to have fallen asleep. Or been Slashdotted.

Anyhow, I've been running Vista RC1 since it was released (and the beta before that) and never had a problem with the sleep function. Other problems, yes, but none with sleep and none so bad I'd complain about them (mostly my preferences vs. Microsoft's, predictable stuff like that).

In fact, I was just telling my wife the other day (she just melts when I talk sweet to her like this) that the sleep/hibernate function in Vista is so much more stable than it used to be that I haven't actually had my laptop all the way off in a few weeks -- I just open and close it as needed, and it wakes right back up and grabs whatever network it sees. I never had this work so well with XP or W2K.
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