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Good-Bye Nino; Hello from Handspring

Hemos posted more than 14 years ago | from the shaking-up-the-handheld-world dept.

Handhelds 124

arban writes "According to this article on CNET, Philips is discontinuing the Nino, their WinCE base machine. " Phillips is citing lack of sales and consumer response to WinCE machine. On the other side of the coin, Handspring has begun taking orders from their new Palm-OS handheld. Nice and cheap.

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Re:Too complicated (0)

My_Favorite_Anonymou (36494) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630556)

Sorry if this is a double posting, /. has no returned page.

The funnest thing is these palm-wandabes can play .mov, but what can you play on 8meg memory? Or the max 96 meg of Compact Flash? Before a handhold device can hold 1Gig of data, it's simply stupid to add the video feature on a tiny gadget. And there is only one [bhphoto.com] thing can do it. No portable dvd player doesn't count, because it can't play X-file futurama and rare Humphrey Bogart movies. (of course, I can't afford it.)

And before somebody want to remind me that they can play mp3. These are the answers 1) My Rio cost 50 bucks 2) No PDA has 32meg build-in memory 3) My Rio runs 12 hours on an AA 4) Visor will play mp3, (the add-in doesn't have its own battery source thouh)

Compaq already replace its fansy 12 godzilliom color screen with a black and white [pdabuzz.com] , now all it need is a decent OS :)


(disclaimer, no I don't own any PDA)


CY

Hardware upgrades? Re:Visor is nice...BUT (1)

Steeldrivin (32368) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630557)

Any chance that upgrading will be possible, but only by either sending the unit back to Handspring, or by going to an authorized installer? It's the old-fashioned way.

Nino musings (1)

TimButterfield (16686) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630558)

So, Phillips is dropping the Nino. I can't say I blame them. I have one, a 320, and am not sure I would buy another. It still functions as intended; there has only been one major data loss :-| and my backup was out of date. :-( My biggest gripe is the buttons on the side. Just picking it up can turn it on, even when it is in the case. It turns off again but it helps eat the batteries more quickly.

My use of the Nino is nothing spectacular, mostly synching with Outlook, tracking lists of things, storing e-books and a few PocketStreet maps, though my move to Linux impacts this a bit. With a 48M CF card, it can hold a lot of books from project Gutenberg and a lot of maps. I haven't bought a paperback in quite a while. That's one of the reasons I got it in the first place, instead of a Palm that is, because I could easily expand the storage. Though it has less storage, maybe the Visor can take its place when I am ready for a replacement.

As to the Nino being supported, I haven't needed support other than being able to download updated software. I hope Phillips does keep supporting it just for those already stuck with one, and for those involved with the LinuxCE effort. Of course, if they do stop support, it will also hurt the CE effort even more than just stopping sales. Consumers will realize that if one brand can drop out, so can others, and they will be left with no support. Not having such a variety of Palm brands, there hasn't been time for one of them to drop out yet. Given time, I'm sure that will happen, too.

Hardware upgrades? Re:Visor is nice...BUT (0)

Steeldrivin (32368) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630559)

Any chance that upgrading will be possible, but only by either sending the unit back to Handspring, or by going to an authorized installer? It's the old-fashioned way.

Re:Linux and the Visor/PalmOS/PalmPilot (4)

PalmFrEq (54485) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630560)

There are a handful of applications that offer syncronization between serial PalmOS devices (Visor will need the serial cradle). There's a buggy K app called KPilot. I believe GNOME also has an incomplete counterpart (of course). However, one of the BETTER Linux-Palm Desktop tools is JPilot. It has a built-in Datebook, To-Do List, MemoPad, and Address Book; all very similar to the Windows Palm Desktop suite. While not necessarily as sophisticated in it's syncing technique (basically copies the entire Pilot databases right off the Plot, rather than updates each database by individual records), it's very reliable, easy to use, and (here's the important part) complete to the point that you can use it on a daily basis. You'll need to install the Pilot-Link tools beforehand, but it's worth it!

Check it out here: http://jpilot.linuxbox.com

Palmtop Keyboards (was:Re:...subject...) (1)

henley (29988) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630561)

...but a keyboard means that I either have to put it down or try and balance it on one hand while typing with the other (I've seen it, and it's worth a laugh!) to use the thing on the move.

This is a common comment on the subject of plamtop / PDA input devices, and all I can say is I've seen it done well, and I've seen it done bad.

The Psion 5 and later are definitely designed to be used from a stable surface, no argument there. However, the HP95/100/200 series had excellent keyboards equally suited to both one-handed on-the-move and desktop usage - as long as you had small enough fingers to use them!.

In particular, I'd point out the HP's well-thought out nice touches - like "sticky" shift / function keys, sensible key assignments for common punctuation, and in-built macro programming assignable to function keys(*) - that I really miss from my Psion 5. On the other hand, when I have a surface (which can be as "portable" as my lap), there's no question which is quicker.

But I definitely fall into the category of "If god wanted me to write or do strange graffiti he'd not have invented QWERTY", so if you're comfortable with the idea of waving a metal rod / stick-with-carbon-insert around, ignore all of the above.

(*) - OK this is more of a S/W issue than a keyboard issue. Forgive me for I have sinned

henley

Re:Phillips! Don't stop Support! (1)

ARCHIMAGE (86547) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630562)

As with other Philips products, once they are discontinued, you are on your own. They will probally farm out support to a third party and charge $$$ for drivers and such.

Re:handspring not upgradeable... (2)

drix (4602) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630563)

The Palm IIIe/se is _not_ flash upgradeable, and I found this out thirty one days after buying it from a store with a thiry-day return policy :) Guess it's my own stupid fault for being an impulsive buyer, but 3.3 isn't that groundbreaking anyways. Faster Hotsync - yawn. If they'd come out with a USB cradle I'd be much, much happier. Downloading 1.5 megs of Avantgo everyday over a 115kbps serial link isn't fun, especially when pages start to timeout.

Re:...subject... (1)

castor (73833) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630564)

The extra ammount of memory and processing that is needed to power a WinCE device causes a fast drain of the batteries. I owned a Nec WinCE device once, and I had to replace the batteries every other week. Later, I upgraded to a PalmPilot. On the Pilot, the batteries last for several months. In my opinion, this is the biggest flaw with WinCE devices. I did like WinCE built in apps, though. They are pretty nice. (Although you can get similar functionality in the Pilot with 3rd party software.)

Uhhh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1630565)

Windows CE was written from scratch and is not bloated.

More FUD.

Re:IS HANDSPRING slashdoted or just because of NT (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1630566)

Is handspring.com slashdoted ?? I can not connect to their site. NETCRAFT tells that they run on NT. here is the message from handspring: We are experiencing technical difficulties or extremely high traffic. Please check back in a bit. ---------------------------------------

Re:Hrrr? My License is Invalid? (1)

magicpaul (98982) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630567)

Yeah, it was doing that earlier today, but with a closed sign (no ethernet cable). I think the storefront software must have a bug (MS: 'an undocumented feature').

Re:It's the design, stupid... (1)

bjk4 (885) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630568)

Although the code for Win CE might have been rewritten, it still uses the *same* API, then *same* system calls, the *same* architectures. The main difference from a users or a programmers view is that a bunch of functionality is missing and that the screen is tiny. The only poeple to whom 'rewritten' matters are those who ignore the end user or the programmer and instead focus on the OS.

-Ben

Can you say "fattening up for a buyout"? (1)

hatless (8275) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630569)

The spinoff of Palm into its own publicly-traded company allows it to be nimble.. and makes it ripe for--or vulnerable to--a buyout.

If PalmOS market share holds up for another year, and it may well do so with Handspring making cute models and Palm making corporate ones, and Symbol making vertical-market ones, and Qualcomm making kitchen-sink ones, we may see a AOL/Sun vs. Microsoft bidding war for Palm. Heck, the likes of Sony or Phillips might also be interested.

Re:MicroSoft Doesn't need WINCE. (2)

Grail (18233) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630570)

The Palm was never intended to be a replacement for a desktop computer [palm.com] . It's main purpose is to be an electonic diary you carry with you to synchronise with your Lotus Organizer or Claris Organizer (now called Palm Desktop [palm.com] ), and Quicken [aj.com] , etc.

Admittedly, $AU800 for a Palm V is a little expensive, but I was sold on it because of a few little utilities I found on PalmGear [palmgear.com] :

  • Titrax [titrax.com] (hour tallying program)
  • PocketMoney [catamount.com] (keep track of my spending habits)
  • Strip [zetetic.net] (secure storage of my passwords)
  • Date Mate [palmmate.com] (make me remember birthdays!)
  • DiddleBug [simplenet.com] (paint package)
  • Nag Screen [simplenet.com] (really useful utility!)

The Palm is supposed to be a data logger, with the processing being done on the desktop. There's no competition between Palm and Windows (besides, I use a Mac on my desktop).

I looked at WinCE once and the interface was so familiar, I was waiting for the BSOD [ntbrad.com] (or h ere [sonic.net] ). Microsoft's biggest mistake with WinCE was underestimating the emotional decision that a user makes based on previous experience with products that have the same interface (ie: Windows 95/98/NT).

That, and the fact that a Palm III can run for weeks on one set of AAA batteries. A WinCE machine runs for maybe 6 hours. However, I got the Palm V with the rechargable Lithium-Ion battery (more dollars than sense). Besides, it looks sexy [palm.com] :P. Next on the list is a Sony Vaio [sony.com] (just like Steff's [userfriendly.org] )

Jesse Berst will be bummed :) (1)

cthompso (2283) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630571)

A few months ago Jesse of FUDnet was saying something along the lines of "by Christmas, I see the situation changing, with WinCE taking an accelerating lead over the PalmPilot", etc.
Heh. I guess not.

Re:It's the design, stupid... (1)

tlhIngan (30335) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630572)

Actually, there are many versions of Win32 floating around:

* Windows NT (The Original Win32)

* Win32s (A highly limited subset of NT's Win32)

* Windows 95/98 (Closer to WinNT's win32 implementation, but not complete. Comes with certain win32 extensions that are brand new too!).

* Windows CE (A subset of the win32 API.)



Eek. Too many versions of Win32 floating around... No wonder things break so easily. (Yes, WinCE's win32 isn't a full API, but it's got more stuff than win32s).

What I really want in a PDA: (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1630573)

The one feature I would really like to have is a GPS with street Maps for the World. If I could load the maps I needed through a wireless connection of some sort, I would always have a map of where I am. B&W would be preferable for battery reasons, but I would pay big cash for a system like that.

I would like someone to develop one for the expansion slot in the Visor. Also, I would like to have my cellphone, my RIO, and my graphing calc built-in as well. And I would like to have a good entertainment pack with games like tetris, and Bomberman.

So really what I want is a small GPS/Phone/Gameboy/Graphing Calc/Pilot/Voice Recorder/MP3 player/with 64 or 128MB of RAM that could also be used to transport data. And if you think about it, these devices could all fit togeather quite nicely. Liscence Palm's graphiti alphabet, or even the fast graphiti alphabet we had on Slashdot a while ago, and you would be set. This is definatly the way things are going, I bet we are about 3-5 years off of a device simmilar to this. Hey even the new 3dfx card is planned to have 128MB as an option, so I don't think that I am asking too much.

Most of the new Windows CE machines are all in the 100Mhz+ range, and I should think that an imbedded processor should be able to handle my demands. I feel so demanding. But this is what I would like.


Loren

Palmtops (4)

Graymalkin (13732) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630574)

I see one of the biggest problems of Windows CE as being the damned GUI, which tends to be the problem with most versions of Windows. The Win32 API works marginally well on a low res desktop (remember Win95 at 640x480 resolution?) but on a screen that's much much smaller than your 13.1" monitor is just assanine. The PalmOS is a pretty much "perfect" operating system for palmtop computing, it's super easy to use, great interface on a small screen, and stable. There was an OS before Palm that did that, NewtonOS. I unfortunately was never able to get a Newton even though I really wanted one but I did have the opertunity to use one. If Apple brought the Newton back at a comparable price to the Visor or Palm I'd seriously consider one. If any palmtop designers are reading this, here is what I'd like to see in a palmtop:

1. Easy access expansion slot (preferably a type 2 PC card slot) that can hold anything from flash memory to microdrives.

2. A cradle that uses USB to recharge the batteries and synch it to my desktop or laptop. Not to mention an IrDA port on the corner of the device for use with my Powerbook's IrDA port (the corner so it has wider visibility).

3. A really long battery life, somewhere in the range of weeks (one would be fine). I don't want a colour screen and have third party device manufacturers put little lithium ion batteries in their stuff so my handheld's batteries arent taxed to heck. Enforce a voltage limit of 3.3 and make your device run on 1.1v.

4. Access to the sub-etha net and "Don't Panic" written plainly on the outside. Maybe include travel information for most of the galaxy.

5. Team up with Victorinox to create a Swiss Army Palmtop complete with scissors, fish scaler, and modem.
6. Wireless access given to me in the same fashion as text pager messages (think XML). I dont need cell phone capabilities but I would like be able to hand surf a handfull (pun intended) of web pages parsed to my viewing ability.
I'm done.

Re:...subject... (1)

GregWebb (26123) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630579)

Nnngghh! Second time posting this one as there appears to be a server bug that killed my last copy...

Firstly, whoever moderated the above to zero should be very ashamed. It's a legitimate opinion, and if Slashdot stops being somewhere where we can all talk about things, it'll die.

Secondly, real pity about this. I'd love a Nino as a toy, simply as WindowsCE includes Jot which seems to be better than Graffiti by all accounts (ditto the on-screen keyboards for that matter, due to WinCE's superior screen design) and the Nino in particular including either smARTwriter or Calligrapher, both of which are supposed to make a rather better stab at this handwrting recognition lark by allowing proper writing (albeit printed only). Yes, it's bigger, heavier and takes more power but if it still fits in a pocket without weighing it down and can be used all day without a charge, who cares? Plus I can get rechargeable with disposable backup, which isn't possible on Palms...

I know CE is supposed to be pretty nasty but if I was seriously looking for something like this, it's be a Nino. Psion 5/Revo's nice, but a keyboard means that I either have to put it down or try and balance it on one hand while typing with the other (I've seen it, and it's worth a laugh!) to use the thing on the move. So, it's got to be an upright and the Nino appears to have by far the easiest data input, letting me take notes properly on it.

Just hope I can find one going cheap as they sell them off :)

Greg

High hopes for LinuxCE (1)

PalmFrEq (54485) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630580)

I think I'm going to cry. I've actually found a valid reason to purchase a WinCE device someday. If not ONLY for the sheer delight in wiping WinCE, as an added bonus, I'd get to replace it with Linux! Boy, would that baffle the MS WinCE propaganda team that visits my campus a couple times a year.

Re:It's the design, stupid... (1)

My_Favorite_Anonymou (36494) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630581)

This is just like when I play with the earlier version of win95, when you change your font to 36pt or so, and click "OK", you are screwed, because it's impossible to change it back. The newer and bigger "ok" button is out of the screen area, and you can't touch it!

Just wait a moment to think about the surreal situation.


CY

Re:eh. big deal. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1630582)

Yes, please tell where you acquired this jem! The only one I could find (from Tadpole Systems) has another deciman place in the price!

That's why you have a keyboard. (2)

cpeterso (19082) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630583)

You might not be able to click the OK button offscreen, but you can use the cursors or ESC. I've "driven blindly" when repairing many hosed NT machines.. sigh..

Re:It's the design, stupid... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1630584)

guess how many times to then hit space. Hope the now invisible focus was on "OK" and not "Delete all files".

not! (1)

philsky (85320) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630585)

I love my nino, not because it's a good PIM, but rather because it has so much software for it.... there are so many technical apps, games, network tools, the like. It was basically a PC in your hand.

The WinCE flaw... (4)

Outlyer (1767) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630586)

The reason WinCE is failing, and will fail is simple. Unlike Palm, which got a clue a long time ago, people don't want a replacement for their desktop machine. It's ridiculous to try. On the other hand, my Pilot stores the important stuff I need between visits to my PC. The Pilot is small, light and does what it needs fast. WinCE, on the other hand seems to run on grossly oversized handhelds (the Nino is just massive) and the Windows interface just doesn't work well in a small setup, not to mention the complete lack of applications, which is weird since for some stuff it's just a question of selecting a build target in Visual Studio.... but I digress...

The Palm is open, it's efficient, and it works. It's PDA. WinCE is just a tiny, crappy computer.

Re:I still love my Newton (1)

TheHornedOne (50252) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630587)

Not to mention you can run a fairly advanced HTTP Server on that Newton Messagepad!

Re:handspring not upgradeable... (3)

William Tanksley (1752) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630588)

It's notable that although all of the Palms since the Palm III have been flash upgradable, not a single flash upgrade has ever been released.

The 3.3 OS is supposed to be a flash upgrade, but it seems that it will only work on IIIx'es and later. Its main advantage appears to be faster hotsyncing, something which the Visor already provides (thanks to the USB).

So although lack of flash upgradability IS a negative, I don't see it as mattering that much -- in the light of past experience.

-Billy

. Not True . (1)

magicpaul (98982) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630589)

Actually, coward, the Handspring site was experiencing problems earlier today, well before the /. post. I went there this morning after reading a nice review of the Visor over at MacCentral. Now it is working. hmm... Personally, I'm going to get a Nokia 7190 with switchblade keypad, WAP, and microbrowser. [maccentral.com]

Re:not! (1)

Rick Razzano (76194) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630590)

Exactly. You bought the Nino for a different reason than most people buy their Pilot/CE Palmtop/other PIM. I would venture a guess that most people who would buy a PIM/PalmPC also have enough access to a PC - at work, home, laptop, etc., that they don't really need a PC in their hand. It's cool, but that is not enough to get most people to spend $300-$500 on it. And in the end, the need/want that drove them to consider the purchase (to replace their day-planner with an electronic one) still has not been satisfied with the PalmPC.

Plus... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1630591)

You will also need:

- GPS
- MP3 playback
- Inertial measurement recording

Handspring website (1)

Mooset (9986) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630592)

Does anyone know how they could make this beast of a website faster? It took like 20 minutes to finally get to the info I wanted because it looks like every page they serve is being run through cgi or something. (Not that I'm an expert on this). Hopefully they will tweak it out soon (or the slashdotters will back off) and I will be able to order one of those bad ass green ones! (My favorite color! Woo hoo!)

Re:My Dream PDA - Nokia 9110 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1630593)

the Nokia 9110 is kinda close.. maybe :) i dont think it has color yet.. and text to speech sythesis feature.. but maybe under dvlpmnt :) - kedd

Re:Handspring == Pilot inventors (1)

Sandor at the Zoo (98013) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630594)

This happened shortly after 3com announced the spinoff of Palm Computing and that they would be licensing the Palm OS to third parties.

Hmmmm, no. Handspring was founded about a year ago, long before Palm Computing was announced to be spun off. Indeed, rumor has it that Hawkins and Dubinsky left because (at that time) 3COM wouldn't spin off Palm.

And the Palm OS has been licensed to 3rd parties for quite some time as well. IBM makes the Workpad, a Palm OS device, and Qualcomm has a license to use it in a phone, but I don't think they've released anything yet.

Re:Hrrr? My License is Invalid? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1630596)

Maybe they are using NT and have exceeded their licensed connnection limit. :)

"License error"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1630598)

Whenever I try visiting the handspring website, I get "License error--the license is invalid. Please contact your system administrator." Is this my end or theirs?

Count PDADash in too... (1)

PalmFrEq (54485) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630600)

Let's not forget the geniuses at PDADash, who last year published an article called "Color is Killer", predicting the PalmOS's ultimate demise right about now. The author's reasons? The PalmPilot cannot play mp3's, emulate a gameboy, nor play Phantom Menace trailers. Pssst...IT'S MARKETED AS A TOOL!!!

Search the archives of embarassment at:

http://www.pdadash.com

Phillips! Don't stop Support! (4)

Accipiter (8228) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630608)

What Phillips doesn't realize, is that there is an active port of LinuxCE to the Nino platform. They may want to discontinue the product, but I sure hope they continue to support it, and perhaps support the LinuxCE project. Many people on the development team have expressed interest in the Nino port.

This only shows there is a definite user base that isn't being tapped here. If Phillips is smart, they would back the project, and let Nino users know they have an alternative to CE.

LinuxCE can be found at http://www.linuxce.org [linuxce.org]

-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?

Waking up and smelling the coffee (1)

Shaken (95070) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630609)

"The company's ambivalence about its Windows CE handheld business became even more apparent when Philips declined to offer a so-called Jupiter device, which was Microsoft's vision of a sub-notebook based on the Windows CE operating system." So the real question is whether they are speaking out against a sub-par operating system (WinCE) or they are now realizing that the market is already saturated with devices that really don't help the day-to-day business person. Sure it's nice to have a $400 gadget that can access E-mail, schedules, faxes and phone numbers. But jeez, are they really worth it? For most people that is? Shaken

Cases & Accessories (1)

Jade (15828) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630610)

Actually, Handspring has been taking orders for a couple weeks. I was visiting their site this morning and they now have accessories for sale on their site: Lots of different cases (including custom ones), extra cradles, a stylus 5-pack, not to mention t-shirts, gym bags, hats, and all sorts of other merchandise.

Do you get the feeling they're looking for a following very quickly? I ordered a Visor a while ago, and I'll probably buy a case....those prices are pretty good when you compare them to the leather cases for dayrunner datebooks.

The only criticism I've heard on the Visor so far is that the snap-on cover is cheap and hard to remove. Even with a case, it's still cheaper than a Palm V. I'm very curious to see what their sales numbers turn out to be for all this stuff.

...subject... (2)

BradyB (52090) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630611)

"For its part, Microsoft disputed the notion that problems with the operating system contributed to Nino's demise. Brian Shafer, a Windows CE product manager, said: "Some of the manufacturers may or may not be as successful as others, given their brand or channel strategy. There's a whole host of other factors which come into play."

People need an unstable palmtop like they need an unstable desktop. Enough said.

Re:Handspring's site (1)

discHead (3226) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630612)

Slow, nothing. I've been getting refused connections.

Error 502: Remote server down or not responding. (1)

meersan (26609) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630613)

Netcraft [netcraft.com] says: www.handspring.com is running Microsoft-IIS/4.0 on NT4 or Windows 98

slashdotted ... that's gotta smart...

Ordering... (1)

Nate Fox (1271) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630614)

Sorry to burst your bubble, but as the guy above you said: they've been accepting orders for quite some time now. I ordered mine the day /. had a link to the CNN article [cnn.com] . Seems most people missed the fact that they put thier phone number on the site, and said you could reserve yours. I called to reserve mine, and found out that I could just order it right then, and so I did. :)

-----
If Bill Gates had a nickel for every time Windows crashed...

Handspring's site (1)

discHead (3226) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630615)

Their site seems to be down right now. And this was before this story appeared, so I think something else is going on other than the Slashdot Effect. Anybody know what's going on?

P.S. I submitted order number 7 after they opened their site yesterday. Nyah, nyah, nyah. :-)

I blame *microsoft* (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1630616)

Microsoft's lack of marketing the Windows CE operating system features, their lack willingness to give away the Windows CE dev kit for free, their lack of publicity is killing Windows CE. For some reason they think "if we build it better than the Palm then they will come." But nobody knows that it is better (more ram, faster, color, Win32 compat, etc.), plus it has the Microsoft logo on it, which scares a lot of people away.

Sure the Army, Navy, Airforce, FBI, CIA, NSA and many police departments use Windows CE, but what about us common folk?

It's just like Windows 98 - if you don't tell people what's up with it, they aren't going to want to buy.

The Philips Velo (2)

Gerv (15179) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630617)

The Philips Velo, American model, is still IMO the best palmtop PC around, and it was released in 1997. Why? It has a softmodem - 4 hours of e-mail/IE 2.0 level net surfing at 19.2k. I was travelling around the US for a month and it was ideal for keeping in touch with people. AFAIK no other palmtop has this feature, even now (but I haven't been paying too much attention...)

Stupidly, they made the European version with a mobile phone interface - slower and far more expensive to set up and use. I count myself very lucky I have an American model. But with marketing decisions like that, no wonder it got discontinued as quickly as the article says.

On the downside, of course, it's my fifth one, due to them never getting the hinges designed right - but you can't fault their nice returns department :-)

Gerv

Too complicated (2)

Rick Razzano (76194) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630618)

Was the Nino a PC or an Organizer? It was designed and marketed to be both, and there are better examples of both of these things. Compare to the Pilot, which has no pretense of doing everything that a PC does, and has sold more than all its CE Palmtop competitors. It's the Jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none principle.

Do I really need a built-in modem? A voice recorder? 8MB of memory? Not for my organizer, I don't. In fact, I would probably be less productive if I was always fiddling with those things (I didn't say they weren't fun to fool with).

Since I bought my Pilot in 1997, I know about 8 people who bought one partially or completely based on the fact that they saw the one I had. I have not seen the same thing with the CE Palmtops. Those machines seem overwhelming the the average person. Any idiot can use a Pilot, just like any idiot can use a phone.

Re:Handspring's site (1)

Jade (15828) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630619)

It's been slow all day, and you're right, even before the /. effect.

When they debuted it a couple weeks ago, handspring.com redirected you to an ip address. Now the site is back to using its domain name. Wonder if the switchover has anything to do with the slowness.

Visor looks pretty good (1)

mackga (990) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630620)

And it's just about at my price - $149 is not that bad (okay, I'm cheap!) I'm seriously querying my credit card to see if it will cooperate on this one.

It's the design, stupid... (5)

sparks (7204) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630621)

Windows CE
Take a bloated, mutated, and counter-intuitive desktop operating system. Remove most of its functionality. Squeeze it into a smaller display than it was ever intended for. It's fun for a while, but ultimately unrewarding.

PalmOS Desgined from the ground up to work in a small display. You can pull it out of your pocket and get to the data in an isntant. No fuss, no mess. You wouldn't want to enter serious amounts of text in it, but it's a very practical solution for the needs of the average business person. It's massively popular.

Epoc32 A clean and elegently designed system from a company who've been building PDAs longer than anyone. Designed from day one for mobile use - but aimed at people who really need a keyboard, either because they need to process documents on the run, or because they are geeks and like being able to telnet into their linux boxes from half way up a mountain - which is when the excellent cellphone integration comes in handy. Also let's companies easily develop custom apps in OPL for, say, insurance salesmen to use on the move. Massively popular in it's niche market.

There's a pattern here, I think:

Designed to a PDA environment - people love it.

Designed from a desktop environment - complete flop.

Handspring == Pilot inventors (1)

IGnatius T Foobar (4328) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630622)

Handspring is a company which was founded by a bunch of the original PalmPilot engineers. This happened shortly after 3com announced the spinoff of Palm Computing and that they would be licensing the Palm OS to third parties.

It would definitely be a Good Thing if the Palm OS became ubiquitous as the environment for PDA's, completely displacing Windoze CE in this arena. It's nice to see a sector not dominated by BigBullySoft.

Re:The Philips Velo (1)

nebby (11637) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630623)

I have to agree that the Velo 1 is a very cool little computer. I too have had my hinge problems (as well as anyone else) and I'm on Velo #3 (works perfectly so far).. I haven't really used it much b/c it's a pain to carry around and my classes are all engineering based so i do very little writing/note taking in class that can be done on a hpc. It was great in High School though. I just read about the linuxce project, and I'm not sure if there's a version for the Velo yet (can't get to the site) but I think it may be reason for me to wipe of the dust and turn that puppy on again!

PalmOS vs. Windows CE (1)

Snard (61584) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630624)

I'm one of those people who picked up one of those Compaq PC Companion (WinCE 1.0) units a while back, when they were being discounted for $99 or so. And I like it a lot. At the time, my feeling was that Windows CE was a better choice than the "proprietary" Palm Pilot operating system... but my feelings have changed since then. While I like the idea of a unified interface that my palm & desktop device share, I now see no problem with a different user interface/OS for a palm unit, as long as it's still able to "plug into" my desktop unit, under whatever OS's I happen to be using (I dual boot between Win9x and BeOS 4.5).

Part of my rationale for getting "toys" like this is so I can learn more about them, although it's always a bonus if I can find a productive use for them. This thread has got me thinking about what sort of PalmPilot related resources there might be, so I guess I have some exploring to do.

huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1630625)

What exactly did Microsoft not tell people about Win98 that kept people from buying it??? That it was slower and fixed the bugs that should have been fixed long before in 95? Come on, people didn't buy it because it's a crock to release a service pack, call in a new OS, and charge full cost for it.

Where'd you get it? (1)

torpor (458) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630626)

I need a cheap, portable, affordable, worthwhile laptop to move all of my e-mail over to.

Right now I've got a Windows PC running Eudora, but I want to move it to a laptop, maybe running Linux and KMail (which does the job in terms of filtering - the only reason I still use Eudora).

If I can get a SparcBook inexpensively, I'll do it - I don't need to stick with Intel. The main thing is price.

So where'd you get it?!!! :)

I still love my Newton (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1630627)

My message pad kicks ass, I still use it daily. Yep, it's too big for a palm device, but great for briefcase or bookbag. The applications were cool, the removable flash ram storage was even cooler, sound recording was awesome, handwriting recognition kick ass (in the later models...). I don't know about some people, but I never was able to write fast in graffiti. The newton let's me write in cursive, and translates quite well. Not to mention I can jot down quick notes and later convert it to text (or just leave it). Long live the newton!!!

Visor is nice...BUT (2)

Max von H. (19283) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630628)

I checked the Handspring site and in the shipping details it only mentions the US of A. Seems we won't have it in Europe before next year, as usual. Grrrr!

Still,I was thinking about buying one, but 2 technical details made me change my mind:

It comes with a USB connection, gotta pay $20 more for serial. What if I dont't want USB, or my 'puter doesn't have USB? Serial does the job perfectly, and for the amount of data a normal user will have to up/download the speed difference shouldn't be a big problem. I just want the choice in there, not being forced to basically buy something I don't need.

You can't upgrade the OS since there's no Flash memory. Sounds like one of the reasons the Visor is a lot cheaper than 3Com's Palm III series (althought the IIIe is locked too, but it's only for US market, so I don't care).

I'd rather pay a bit more for a Palm IIIx or even a V (looks too good), and be sure I can upgrade the OS whenever there's an upgrade, feature that garantees my gadget won't be totally obsolete after 1 or 2 years. Heck, with the OS in a Flash ROM it's even possible to change the OS to something else than PalmOS (which is excellent, btw). LinCE anybody?

For now, I think I'll just enjoy the new prices for the Palm series...


Re:handspring not upgradeable... (1)

bgdarnel (2144) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630629)

OS3.3 does work on the PalmIII. The other significant improvements besides faster hotsyncing are improved infrared support (I think this has been possible with 3rd-party software), and the addition of the Euro symbol to all the standard fonts. Aside from the Euro symbol, which may or may not matter for you, there's not a very compelling reason for wanting 3.3 on a Visor.

The main use for the flash so far is a 3rd-party app called FlashPro, which lets you store applications in the unused ~800k of flash.

Re:Handspring's site (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1630630)

Now there's some sort of "License Error" that comes up. Looks like someone's runnin NT!

Re:Phillips! Don't stop Support! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1630631)

Sorry, a port of Linux to the MIPS processor that the Nino uses is admirable, but will not change Philips non-commitment to their platform. They apparently are not willing to commit the resources to compete with HP, Casio and Sharp, all of which have advantages such as complementary devices or production of related components such as LCDs. The OS was not the reason. Handspring will mix up the handheld market running either Palm OS or Windows CE; it will be too much for Philips to make a profit. Shame, the Nino and the Velo helped develope handheld PCs in technology and design. signed, longtime Velo owner

Oh oh... I am not too excited about this (1)

Randy Rathbun (18851) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630632)

I have been looking long and hard at the Philips Pronto remote [philips.com] , which is pretty much just a remote control made out of a Nino. I hope they don't cancel it too!

This does bring me to a kind of off topic question though that I think should be asked - who will be the next to leave the CE camp? How indicative is this of what CE is doing in the marketplace? When will MS be posting a PalmOS FUD document like they did for Linux? My guess on the last question is Real Soon Now.

This should be fun to watch for!

941415926518293950285123123568785948184839358193 948913958495
80124569890476636201512012315668018651125564087489 7980465063

Hrrr? My License is Invalid? (1)

Greyfox (87712) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630633)

I just tried to hit their site and got a rather interesting page up telling me my license was invalid and showing a picture of a "closed" sign with an unplugged ethernet cable. I wonder what license that is...

Was Windows CE to blame? (4)

|DaBuzz| (33869) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630634)

I personally shoulder much of the blame for this on Windows CE. I've had a Casio A-20 for over a year now and I don't ever use it for the simple fact that it's not worth it. I ALWAYS use my Palm Pilot Professional because it's fast, functional, and works.

There is NO REASON a handheld PC should give you an hourglass when "opening" your contacts app, NO REASON. Then add the same problems that Win 9x/NT has like constant reboots and lockups/crashes and that seals Windows CE's fate in my opinion.

This is the reason I have not purchased a new CE unit and most likely will not.

Re:It's the design, stupid... (1)

khaosworks (43380) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630635)

I just have a hard time taking an OS that calls itself WinCE seriously.

I mean, what was Marketing THINKING?

Uh, wait...

cheap laptops$300ish (was Re:Where'd you get it?) (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1630636)

a great place for cheap laptops that i know of is outletzoo.com [outletzoo.com] (under pczoo --> notebooks) the only thing is they are mostly 'refurbished' back into 'same as new' condition. i recently ordered a PII 366 64M w/DVD MicronTrek2, etc. and dual booted it w/ RH 6.0. It runs perfectly fine so far, except the perplexing PPP configuration problems that forces me to keep using the EVILBILL partition to go online so far... :>?
prices are $300 and up^
cheers,
bobbaq@ya'wh0? [mailto]

Re:Waking up and smelling the coffee (1)

Athos (11806) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630637)

[Score 0:Cynical]

It's (almost) amusing to see this type of post appearing nearly as often as a 'first post'er or a microsoft flame.

--

Re:Hrrr? My License is Invalid? (1)

Zamis (81530) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630638)

I got a user name and password verification box. To go to their site???? A password??

avant go... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1630639)

For some reason, I always end up with yesterday's NY Times when I sync to avant go in the morning...

Any ideas why?

palm rules.

Re:avant go... (1)

drix (4602) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630641)

What time are you syncing? I think the NYT reupdates at 5AM EDT.

Re:I blame *microsoft* (1)

RickyD (65922) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630643)

Your post is a random list of non sequiturs! You seem to be confusing a palm computer with a sub-laptop computer.

More RAM? yeah, you need it because Win CE is such a hog. Color? who cares? It's not a laptop! Win32? why does that matter? So I can run MS office in my palmtop?

People haven't bought into Win CE because it's a plain dumb idea born of Microsoft's need to expand into new markets. Palm OS outsells all Win CE computers combined by a large margin for a reason. It does exactly what it needs to do for a palm computer. It's simple, logical, and elegant. It's small, lightweight, runs for months on a set of batteries. In short, it doesn't try to be a little laptop computer. Win CE fails as a palmtop and as a laptop.

And since when did MS not marketing Win 98?

Re:huh? (2)

daviddennis (10926) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630645)

I think people didn't buy it because even Microsoft didn't seem to care. I remember reading some tepid-at-best pronouncements which seemed to be designed to convince you to skip 98 and go straight to Windows2000.

The reviews were terrible, too.

D

----

Make mine Black(berry) (2)

GrokSoup (30253) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630646)

What bugs me about all this blessed praise for Handspring's Razor is how off-base the product (and its overpriced Big Daddy) is. While it's less overpriced, it's still incredibly cumbersome to use, and more importantly, it doesn't give universal wireless email access (unless your universe is New York).

Matter of fact, I recently spent a day messing with RIM's new Blackberry [blackberry.net] device and ended up feeling downright disgusted with Palm/Spring. Specifically, I loved that Blackberry a) had keyboard entry; b) a perfect form factor; and c) and ubiquitous, wireless email.

It was insanely addictive, like the early days of cell phones when it was fun to call someone from the car (or the roller blades) Just Because You Could, it is totally cool to send emails from the neighbor's couch, Just Because You Can.

At the same time, as Mark Anderson points out in a recent column, any device that has united Michael Dell, Steve Ballmer and Paul Allen has got big buzz. After all, Allen just paid $1.65B for RCN which is getting ready to roll out Blackberry service.

P.
http://www.groksoup.com

Re:The Philips Velo (2)

ptomblin (1378) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630654)

AFAIK no other palmtop has this feature, even now (but I haven't been paying too much attention...)

I've had a Sharp Zaurus for nearly 5 years now. It's the only palmtop I know of with a decent sized (not lap-top sized, but it will do) keyboard, and a PCMCIA slot. I have the cheezy 2400bps modem that plugs into the side, but you can plug any PCMCIA modem you want into the thing.
The built-in vt100 emulation isn't bad - I frequently run elm and mutt and trn over it.

Re:Handspring's site (1)

Bearpaw (13080) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630655)

Nyah, nyah, I ordered mine September 14th. Should be getting it in the next week or two.

WinCE is toast.

Re:Ordering... (1)

Mycroft-X (11435) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630656)

And has it shipped/have you received it yet?

Mycroft-X

Re:...subject... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1630657)

Have you used WindowsCE? Before I got my Nino, I has a Palm user. I have never had to reset my Nino, it has never crashed, and it has never lost data. I cannot say the same for the Palm. I also like the built in CE apps better. YMMV

My Dream PDA (1)

peterb (13831) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630658)

Hi! Let me take this opportunity to sermonize about the features of my Dream PDA.

My Dream PDA is:

  • The size of a Palm V or smaller.
  • A cell phone (and of course can do TCP over said connection). Should be able to send and receive faxes over same.
  • Does speech-to-text so that I don't have to have a stylus at all.
  • Has color.
  • Has batteries that last for, oh, about a month.

Note that I haven't put a price on this puppy. To me, price is less important than features. If I could find a unit that would do all of the above, and do it well I'd probably be willing to pay in excess of $1,000 for it.

So, which venture capitalist is going to give me a few million to develop this thing?

eh. big deal. (2)

aheitner (3273) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630659)

I'm happy with my SPARCBook3. Cost me $230 shipping included, a bloody sight less than most PDAs.

Sure it's a bit heavy (gotta love that magnesium case). But it runs real OSs (Solaris 2.5/6/7, NetBSD, Linux). It's got great features (builtin sound, ethernet, 2 modems, ISDN ). And it meets my criterion: since it runs a perfectly stable OS (Sol 2.5.1), I can just suspend it and resume it in about 30 seconds each. So I can arrive somewhere and be hacking without waiting for boot. Granted the battery life isn't amazing, just enough for a 90 minute lecture, though newer laptops are much better for that.

It can dhcp in any lecture hall with netbars, and if I wasn't too cheap to spring for wireless it could do that too i think (might need a newer Solaris version).

I spend my class and between class time this morning half listning to lectures, half hacking madly at Verilog. It was a great productivity boost considering my ECE lab tonight. I also use it to take notes that are actually readable for once -- definitely worth the flexibility tradoff verses pen & paper.

Spend an equivalent amount of money on a PDA that's smaller but can only take a few terse notes and keep my appointments? Forget it.

Re:Ordering... (1)

Quincunx (67712) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630660)

Phone number???? What kind of luddites are in their marketing/sales departments?

COME ON PEOPLE! (to HandSpring) If I enter a store, they don't tell me to go home and call their 800 number, they do what they can to take my money right there. Web business should be no different. Can you tell I want one really bad? I want to see it with my eyes before I pick out the color though, the web graphics just don't do it for me.

Linux and the Visor/PalmOS/PalmPilot (1)

mog (22706) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630661)

This may be an extremely naive question, but just
how much Linux support is there out there for
synching with the PalmOS? What sort of
PIM programs on the computer is there to use in
conjunction with the Visor/PalmPilot? Is the
USB connection support? Infrared? My motherboard
has IrDA support.. but there's no receiver on the
front of my computer.. does the computer not
receive IrDA like other infrareds?
As I said, very naive questions, but certainly
applicable to the subject matter -- I imagine
that many people have such questions, with the
Palmtops being previously out of most peoples'
sensible price range...
Mog

Palm / Pager (1)

Indomitus (578) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630662)

There is a springboard module for the Visor that will supposedly do this type of stuff. Details are sketchy, as usual with unreleased products, but from what I've heard it will be a normal pager but when you plug it into the Visor it will do all sorts of logs and 2way paging stuff. Again, this is all preliminary but if the rumors pan out, it will be a killer little deal.

MicroSoft Doesn't need WINCE. (1)

jcr (53032) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630663)

The only purpose for Wince, was to put Go computing out of business. Penpoint was good enough to actually threaten MicroSquish.

There was a time, a few years back, when many people actually believed that pen-based UI could supplant windowing GUIs. Of course, now that pen-based UI sucks, this threat is very remote.

In other words, now that Go is dead, Wince is redundant. Nobody's going to replace their wintel boat anchor with a palm pilot.

-jcr

I ordered mine today (1)

IsleOfView (23825) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630664)

I ordered my visor this morning. The site seemed really slow, but I was able to confirm that the order had been placed. I can't wait for it to arrive (plus it comes in "ice" --- much cooler than the palm's grayish color)


Micro$oft(R) Windoze NT(TM)
(C) Copyright 1985-1996 Micro$oft Corp.
C:\>uptime

look again (1)

/ (33804) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630665)

It was posted by an anonymous coward. Thus it starts at score=0.

Re:I blame *microsoft* (1)

sixoseven (73926) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630666)

faster isn't always better. palm wins based on usability. it's simple, yet expandable. that's just good design - a design with the end user in mind, not the settopbox development market.

Re:Too complicated (1)

Mark Pitman (1610) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630667)

No PDA has 32meg build-in memory

Actually, the Casio E-105 has 32MB of RAM. As far as video, you seem to be stuck on the idea that the only use for video is feature length movies. I would like to carry around little video clips of my kids, etc. And when I get my Casio (soon hopefully) I will!

. formatting error ? . (1)

magicpaul (98982) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630668)

(um, though I took the time to preview my post and it had correct HTML formatting, the final posted version did not, so a 2nd try...)

Eh, the Handspring site was experiencing problems earlier today, well before the slashdot post.

I went there this morning after reading a glowing review of the Visor over at MacCentral [maccentral.com] .

Now it is working.

hmm...

For my PDA needs I'm going to get a Nokia 7100 with switchblade keypad, WAP, 1000 number memory, & microbrowser.

Re:Visor is nice...BUT (1)

seth (984) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630669)

To be honest, I question how useful being able to upgrade the op system is. Just now, 3Com is releasing the first operating system upgrade, which isn't upgrading anything major.

I think that the "You can upgrade the operating system" line from 3Com is to comfort the purchaser who can't stomach a computer that isn't upgradable. I don't think it is a very useful feature right now, and I question if it will be in the future.

-Seth

Re:It's the design, stupid... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1630670)

Firstly this is hardly any indication of the lack of success of CE. Lots of other companies seem to be quite successful in this market.

Take a bloated, mutated, and counter-intuitive desktop operating system. Remove most of its functionality. Squeeze it into a smaller display than it was ever intended for. It's fun for a while, but ultimately unrewarding.

What do you know about CE? CE was built from the ground up as a highly modular, microkernel highly portable operating system. Be fanatically anti-MS all you want, but slamming Windows CE based upon the fact that it uses the Win32 API is pretty sad.

Re:It's the design, stupid... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1630671)

Alt-spacebar M Now use the cursor keys to move the dialog so that the OK button is visible on the screen. Click with your mouse

Re:The Philips Velo (1)

stickyc (38756) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630672)

I think Philips decision to go with the cordless phone port on the European Velo had more to do with the European wireless infrastructure than with any "stupid decision" making. Of course, I could be wrong :)

handspring not upgradeable... (3)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1630673)

important note: the handspring doesnot put the palmos in flash memory, like all other palms. the handspring uses palmos hardcoded into rom. result? you cannot upgrade to a newere palmos. a pretty big downside, imo.

however, that won't stop me from getting one! :) these things just look cool. plus, accessorizing is in. hehe. anyways, for how cheap they, how compatible they are, how cool they look, they can't be beat. but, you'll be stuck with the os that it comes with unless you're a decent hardware hacker.

Re:My Dream PDA (0)

j a w a d (66763) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630674)

With cell phone technology getting better almost daily, I personally would rather not have a cell phone built in.

I don't remember who said it (and I'm too lazy to search) but there was a comment in a previous article about mating the Palm with a pager. I think I would rather have this. Logs of when people paged, what time, alphanumeric abilities, the whole nine.

I was thinking, with current technology its not quite possible (to my knowledge) to have both color & a long battery life. Perhaps there could be a switch to change from color to grayscale? Is this possible?

Another thought: does anyone have any links to teach me about wireless ethernet? I was thinking that a wireless ethernet on campus (http://www.rpi.edu/) would be wonderful.

~jawad

You forgot: (2)

Ledge Kindred (82988) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630675)

NewtonOS: generally overlooked by everyone except Newton owners. Designed for handheld and portable devices while retaining a high degree of functionality. Handwriting recognition actually works as expected on later revisions without having to resort to gestural alphabets. Generally considered very advanced and capable, even when compared with other more popular palmtop/handlheld/portable operating systems and considered the "Grandfather" of most of those popular operating systems who owe much of their basic design to NewtonOS. Has a small but dedicated core of fans and followers who want to beat Steve Jobs with a whiffle bat until he bleeds from his ears for discontinuing the project that originally birthed it.

-=-=-=-=-

Re:...subject... (4)

hey! (33014) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630677)

Well, exatly how bad IS WinCE? Is it just anti-MS bias? If it is, we have enough to complain about without making up things.

I've had to compare the Cass E100 to the Palm series for a project at work, and I must say, despite my being prepared to hate the very idea of WinCE, I really liked the E100. I haven't had any stability problems, but this tends to vary from user to user; any unsatisfied WinCE users?

As far as the UI was concerned, I also thought it was a bad idea to "shoehorn" a desktop GUI onto a PDA, but in fact the GUI isn't really the same as Windows 9X/NT; it just has some very superficial similarities. All in all I'd rate it very good, although I chose to focus on PalmOS.

In the area of desktop synchronization, I found the ActiveSynch technology to be rather buggy on NT, but OK on Win98. I understand there's an NT fix avaiable. It's nice being able to browse your PDA, but in the end its so slow that I think the HotSynch approach is actually more practical. Synching through USB on the HandSprings is definitely going to rock, I just hope they don't dispense with the good old serial port (so I can hook up a differential GPS).

The main issue I see with WinCE is that the OS demands a certain amount of memory and processing power, and the UI really won't fit onto a pilot sized screen, so any practical WinCE palmtop is going to be a little too bulky for our particular application. Also the E100's screen couldn't be read in direct sunlight, so that clinched it for us. Price wasn't an issue, the E100 prices were, I thought, very reasonable for the things you get (fast processor, 32MB RAM, active matrix screen). If you had an application that needed these things, I don't think WinCE would be a bad choice.

Re:eh. big deal. (2)

Ledge Kindred (82988) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630678)

Care to share where you got your SPARCBook3 for $230, shipping included, and maybe some hardware specs? For that price, it might be worth taking a screwdriver/hacksaw/hammer to it and see if I couldn't hack up some semblance of a wearable machine that could run A Real OS.

-=-=-=-=-

Re:Too complicated (1)

My_Favorite_Anonymou (36494) | more than 14 years ago | (#1630679)

The funnest thing is these palm-wandabes can play .mov, but what can you play on 8meg memory? Or the max 96 meg of Compact Flash? Before a handhold device can hold 1Gig of data, it's simply stupid to add the video feature on a tiny gadget. And there is only one [bhphoto.com] thing can do it. No portable dvd player doesn't count, because it can't play X-file futurama and rare Humphrey Bogart movies. (of course, I can't afford it.)

And before somebody want to remind me that they can play mp3. These are the answers 1) My Rio cost 50 bucks 2) No PDA has 32meg build-in memory 3) My Rio runs 12 hours on an AA 4) Visor will play mp3, (the add-in doesn't have its own battery source thouh)

Compaq already replace its fansy 12 godzilliom color screen with a black and white [pdabuzz.com] , now all it need is a decent OS :)


(disclaimer, no I don't own any PDA)


CY
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