Beta

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Novell and Microsoft Claim Customer Support

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the quite-a-spin dept.

Novell 158

munchola writes "Novell and Microsoft have commissioned a survey to prove that customers love their interoperability and patent deal. According to the survey 'Ninety-five percent approve of the collaboration between Novell and Microsoft,' while 'four out of five believe their organization would consider doing more business with Linux dealers if Linux providers establish an alliance with Microsoft.' As CBRonline notes, however: 'Few people have claimed the deal is bad for Novell or Microsoft's customers. The question has been whether it is good for the open source movement, open source developers, or indeed Novell itself. Those issues do not appear to have been addressed by the survey.'"

cancel ×

158 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Fnsdufygaweuigfyb (0, Offtopic)

Helen Keller (842669) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210328)

FNGlasjkklasjdkjasdkljklj PSOT!

first (1)

exspecto (513607) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210330)

shill

Marketing auto-fellatio? (0)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210372)

That's funny, most of the people that I have talked to and have read (i.e. from slashdot and various other forums) show an overwhelming majority of people that are NOT happy with the merger...

Re:Marketing auto-fellatio? (5, Insightful)

urbanradar (1001140) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210458)

The people on Slashdot and other such forums and Novell's paying customers are mostly not the same people.

Re:Marketing auto-fellatio? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17210776)

especially since novel has like what, 3 customers left?

But some of us are. (4, Informative)

khasim (1285) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210968)

I'm running NetWare 6.5, GroupWise 7.01 and ZENworks 6.0 and I am not happy with this "deal".

Nor will I ever recommend Novell products until Novell changes their attitude.

Congratulations (0, Flamebait)

everphilski (877346) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211490)

You are one of the 5%.

Re:But some of us are. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17211496)

I too run Netware, Zen and GroupWise for a mid-sized company. In my spare time I work on a GPL licensed project that is included in SUSE.

I am unhappy with Novell. As a result I'm looking to possibly block Novell from using my work going forward by licensing it with the next version of the GPL. Not sure this would matters or help, but Novell has now made me think seriously about using GPLv.3.

Re:But some of us are. (2, Insightful)

Albanach (527650) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211546)

Nor will I ever recommend Novell products until Novell changes their attitude.

Interesting. So Novell enter an agreement that protects you from being sued by Microsoft, and as a result you'd recommend not using their products in future? What's your business case for that?

Re:Marketing auto-fellatio? (4, Insightful)

Macthorpe (960048) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210498)

Not to spit on the results of your own personal survey here (actually, it really is), but could that possibly be because 'me and my Linux pals' aren't exactly a representative sample of the computing community?

Re:Marketing auto-fellatio? (0, Offtopic)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210538)

That's funny, I own 6 computers in my house, and the only one that has Linux installed is my firewall...the rest are retail-bought copies of windows XP.

Re:Marketing auto-fellatio? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17210932)

As a counter balance, my household has: one router (OpenBSD on Soekris box), one Radio to Copper bridge (OpenBSD on Soekris box), one small, personal http server (OpenBSD on Soekris box), two desktops (OSX & Linux), two laptops (OSX) and a storage backup server (Linux).

No Windows anywhere. So, screw the MS - Novell deal.

Re:Marketing auto-fellatio? (0, Offtopic)

diersing (679767) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211068)

Actually, its not funny. Not one bit. I really fail to see the humor in you owning 6 copies of the same software, why you happily paid retail for them makes even less sense.

And since you missed the point, we (i.e. not you) would be the representative 'linux pals' in the statement I believe you were replying to.

To your original post - of course. That's because the people you've been talking to or reading comments from are not the same sampling from the Novell/MS sponsored survey (of their own customers, mind you). You see, we all have different thoughts. When we communicate we expressed those thoughts and thus, our individuality (although some choose to do so with various piercings and or permanent ink markings on their body - which is fine while they are young, but aging... well, you've seen National Geographic haven't you, but I digress...). MS has not yet achieved mass acceptance of their Redmond mind-meld - whereas you accept control over your mind/body/spirit and hereto relinquish all rights for self-decision to your one and only master Bill Gates. Not that they haven't tried mind you, but the grass-roots resistance is strong (particularly among your linux-pals you seem so eager to dodge).

So, what is it you're doing with 6 networked XP boxes at home? You can't be gaming or downloading pr0n from 6 boxes at the same time so I'm assuming somewhere near 5 of them are idle, mind loading something for me so I can capitalize on those wasted cycles? I'll shoot it over in email, just double-click the attachment and I'll take care of the rest... thanks.

Re:Marketing auto-fellatio? (1, Offtopic)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211172)

I use windows because for my purposes it works...Three of them are hooked up to various TV's around the house to act as streaming boxes, one of them is a gaming machine, one of them is a file server for the house, and the last is the aformentioned linux firewall.

I will use an analogy that I frequently use for my car. I drive an 04 rsx type-s with the ASPEC factory package. The total cost was about 32,000 dollars, taxes and all. For what I get in the package, it is overpriced; I am aware of that. However, because of how I purchased it, I have a full warrenty on all the extra parts that it came with (rims, suspension, body kit, etc.) For the same 32k, I could have bought a 350Z. It has more luxorious, is MUCH faster, and is more popular. However, the RSX is what I WANTED. I didn't care if there was better out there, this was what I wanted. So, I bought it and I love it every day that I drive it.

Same thing goes with XP. I know OSX/Linux/etc. are more secure, cheaper, more reliable, easier to use, whatever other argument you want to throw out there. I understand and accept that. But they are not what I WANT. I don't want to use linux. I don't want to use OSX. I don't care if they are better.

I want and like to use XP.

Re:Marketing auto-fellatio? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17211366)

I don't want to use linux. I don't want to use OSX. I don't care if they are better.

I want and like to use XP.

You are truly Microsoft's ideal customer.

Re:Marketing auto-fellatio? (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211570)

Not really. I don't encourage people to use XP, just like I don't encourage people to use OSX or Linux. I encourage them to use whatever works best for their needs. For my needs, XP works fantastic. If I had a single computer in the house that wasn't used for gaming, I would likely use Linux simply because of it's configurability. But with as many PC's as I have in my house, I want something that requires the least amount of configuration and has simple maintenance.

Sorry if so many people don't know how to secure or maintain XP without much trouble, but I have no problem doing it.

Re:Marketing auto-fellatio? (1)

guaigean (867316) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211472)

I know OSX/Linux/etc. are more secure, cheaper, more reliable, easier to use, whatever other argument you want to throw out there. I understand and accept that. But they are not what I WANT.

Aside from the actual argument of Windows vs Linux, I am curious in your personal take on it, and why you chose what you did based on YOUR beliefs... So maybe you can clarify.

So, you are willingly throwing money at something that you yourself claim is an inferior product? Look, if you want to use windows because it has more games available, or more apps you use available, fine, so be it. That is a reasonable argument. However, saying "I know my product sucks, and I like to pay more for it", is not logical. It is foolish. By choosing the worst product simply to rebel against the geek chic not only damages you, but damages others. By giving a company with an inferior product more bullying power, you are damaging the computer industry as a whole, and not just making a statement.

Maybe I don't understand, but why would you ever willingly pay for a product that you claim is inferior, insecure, and unstable, when the alternative is free? It makes no sense. Please, help me understand.

Re:Marketing auto-fellatio? (1, Insightful)

everphilski (877346) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211584)

More money than time. Linux is more secure than windows ... sure. But Windows has (1) more and (2) a better selection of applications. He mentions three PC's for (basically) TiVo's. Could he have done MythTV boxes instead? I'm sure he could. Is a Windows Media PC just a little bit slicker (with a remote to boot) and a lot less time consuming to set up? You bet. Some of us have a family and other commitments to attend to, instead of spending every waking moment tweaking our linux boxes...
I'm on the fence myself, 1 windows PC, 1 linux box. I use the right tool for the job. I game on the windows box, program on the linux box. People here give Microsoft too little credit for a good enough job well done.

Re:Marketing auto-fellatio? (0, Offtopic)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211658)

Read my reply to another post for your answer. Also, see the first reply to your post by another slashdotter, they hit the nail on the head.

Re:Marketing auto-fellatio? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17210502)

That'd be the point -- pleasing or angering noisy teenage Lunix fanboys has no effect on Novell's paying customer base.

Re:Marketing auto-fellatio? (1)

Ramsees (1007423) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210514)

lol! you base your conclusion on Slashdot post? most of the whiners are no life losers who are not even making money with Linux and have take the deal personal because it brings something interesting to their pathetic lifes.

Re:Marketing auto-fellatio? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17210550)

The overwhelming majority within the minority?

Re:Marketing auto-fellatio? (1)

Kenja (541830) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210566)

No. An overwhelming majority of the people dont care.

Re:Marketing auto-fellatio? (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210606)

Again, read my response to one of you...I own 6 computers that are in my house, and only one of them has Linux which is my firewall. The rest are retail bought copies of XP.

Is it somehow beyond the scope of your ability to understand that someone can support a company and still not like something they did?

Re:Marketing auto-fellatio? (1)

El Torico (732160) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210796)

Is it somehow beyond the scope of your ability to understand that someone can support a company and still not like something they did?

Yes, we can understand it. We just don't want to admit it.

Re: Marketing auto-fellatio? (1)

Dolda2000 (759023) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211030)

Well, one probably shan't read too much into it, but I did find the phrasing "Novell and Microsoft have commissioned a survey to prove that customers love their interoperability and patent deal" a bit funny. If I were them, I would have phrased it something like "...have commissioned a survey to find out whether customers love...", but maybe that's just me.

Re:Marketing auto-fellatio? (1)

dedalus2000 (704571) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211380)

95% of MCSEs interviewed approve of Microsoft and deals they make 5% read the entire question and fear they may be forced to learn something to compete.

Paying MS Customer != open source movement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17210374)

The question has been whether it is good for the open source movement, open source developers, or indeed Novell itself. Those issues do not appear to have been addressed by the survey

Of course it doesn't, most of the people involved in the open source movement are not paying customers to either company. So why would MS and Novell try to make them happy.

Re:Paying MS Customer != open source movement (2, Insightful)

smilindog2000 (907665) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211086)

Of course it doesn't, most of the people involved in the open source movement are not paying customers to either company. So why would MS and Novell try to make them happy.

You sound like a typical sales guy, not that that's bad. They are always focused on what they can sell this quarter, and not concerned about two years out. Novel is probably also listening to their sales guys. I find they under-estimate the power of the open-source community, and resent it for not paying any commissions. Most paying customers for Linux ask a real geek which distro to buy, and that generally means one of us open-source guys. I had a client company ask me just this question last week, and the decision I helped them make (RedHat - definately NOT Suse for EDA), will probably grow with that company for at least a decade. I figure over the long-run, Novell is out possibly a million bucks, just for pissing me off. And I'm just one geek. Yeah, they ought to care.

The reason is... (2, Interesting)

Eric Damron (553630) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211228)

That the Open Source community IS the goose that lays the golden eggs. How WE feel is everything.

Just one survey? (4, Interesting)

faloi (738831) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210386)

Or did they commision multiple surveys with different wording and cherry-pick the one they liked most? It is marketing, after all.

Re:Just one survey? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17210616)

Don't be absurd. Marketing types know how to write surveys that give them the results they want. There are courses on this.

Question number one. (3, Funny)

AltGrendel (175092) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210648)

Do you love more; being hit in the head by a large wooden mallet, or using the new Microsoft/Novell hotline?

But isn't that the same thing?

JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION DAMN IT!

Interoperability is Obviously Good (0, Flamebait)

acgrissom (1002693) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210388)

I don't see how collaborating int his area could possibly be bad. Certainly, it will give Novell/SuSE an advantage, but SuSE has consistently had features that other variations of Linux do not, such as bleeding edge drivers and early NTFS support (before it was common). There is certainly (justified) distrust of Microsoft in the Linux/open source community, especially given some of Steve Balmer's comments. ( http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?com mand=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9005171 [computerworld.com] )

Well... (2, Insightful)

urbanradar (1001140) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210418)

...if businesses using Linux were to suddenly find themselves without support one day because their Linux partner has just lost a legal battle against Microsoft, they probably wouldn't like it as much.

Just saying.

Re:Well... (1)

Ajehals (947354) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210756)

The only losers under your theoretical scenario are those support providers who also provide the Distribution, and where they are operating in a country where software patents are valid, so that probably means that the effected group would be quite small. As I see it, the whole argument that the Novel / Microsoft deal is bad hinges on Patents rather than copyright, so for a large number of companies, there is simply no problem. Different story if you are in the US I guess, and a problem if changes are made to legislation else where, but until then quite a few of the companies providing support, services or even software are in fine shape.

Re:Well... (1)

shaitand (626655) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211790)

"Different story if you are in the US I guess"

Last I checked this is a USian site, for USians. We are all in the US. Ignoring that fact for a brief moment, the US alone controls most of the global economy. In economic terms, how something impacts the US is the first and almost only consideration; not a side note.

Re:Well... (1)

Down_in_the_Park (721993) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210858)

Right, they wouldn't like it so much. As they wouldn't like it so much if an earthquake destroys their corporate headquarter. Now lets look at the probabilities; earthquake, yeah can happen depends where your HQ is located, lawsuit from Microsoft against Linux...you are joking, right?

Summary: FUD as usual...

Re:Well... (1)

advocate_one (662832) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211388)

this is FUD as usual from Microsoft... an all-out patent war is not in their general interest... the mere "threat" of a patent lawsuit however, is... you do realise that if Microsoft actually were stupid enough to sue a Linux customer for infringing one of their fatuous patents, then the resultant gotterdamerung as all interested parties suddenly find patents that microsoft customers themselves are infringing on would be highly amusing...

Oh... (2, Funny)

Peyna (14792) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210426)

Here I thought they were announcing they were actually going to support their customers.

Move along, nothing to see here.

MS and Novell Can Do Whatever They Want! (3, Interesting)

codepunk (167897) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210486)

Neither MS or Novell control our software, only we control our software. It is a hard lesson that many companies need to learn, they are not in control the developers are ultimately in control. The minute you alienate the developers in this type of environment you have already set up your ultimate demise.

Re:MS and Novell Can Do Whatever They Want! (1)

Ramsees (1007423) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210654)

Or they can hire their own developers whi don't give a damn about clts a take it to the right path.

Re:MS and Novell Can Do Whatever They Want! (1)

ShorePiper82 (1027534) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211412)

I agree with you, but although we, as individual developers influence where the open source movement can go, much of our support is driven by business, and much of the publicitly we have received is because of [big business] finding gems in open source and linux that fit their business-model. Big business also needs support... and as one post touches on, one day, Microsoft wages a legal suit against your Linux vendor and bleeds your vendor dry. Justified or not this is going to be a costly fight and financially in the favor of Microsoft... they can drag out litigation and end your vendor support forcing your company to make a 'new choice' (which could very likely be right into Microsoft & Novell/SuSE hands).

Survey Responders (0, Troll)

Daemonstar (84116) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210492)

The survey did not intentionally target, but did break out, results for respondents whose companies deploy both Microsoft® Windows and SUSE Linux from Novell, as well as Red Hat Linux.
They might not have targeted the companies, but they do have a ready list of Microsoft multi-certified people to choose from.

The Actual Survey (5, Funny)

ifchairscouldtalk (1031944) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210508)

Do you think that the recent interoperability and patent deal between Microsoft and Novel is

A) Good
B) Very Good
C) Not bad at all

Re:The Actual Survey (1)

Joebert (946227) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210636)

You forgot,
D) All of the above

Re:The Actual Survey (1)

Mayhem178 (920970) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210812)

You forgot:

E) Profit!

It had to be said.

Re:The Actual Survey (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210816)

D) Ask CowboyNeal!

Re:The Actual Survey (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17210896)

D) Republican

(Survey equipment courtesy of Diebold)

Re:The Actual Survey (1)

Amazing Quantum Man (458715) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211416)

Or to take a page from Dogbert's Top Secret Management Handbook.

Please rate the truthfulness of the following statements on a scale of 1 to 5, where 1 = true and 5 = very true...

1. The MS-Novell deal is good for customers.
2. Open Source software is bad.
3. RMS is a doody-head

-- Disclaimer: I may or may not believe this, but it's how a marketing type would think

As predictable as snow in winter (3, Insightful)

netbuzz (955038) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210520)

Customers *always* like to hear that their vendors are playing nice-nice together; the details matter little -- at least in the short run. ... Or maybe it's just that Microsoft and Novell have wowed 'em with these cool billboards that are beckoning drivers in the Bay Area and Massachusetts:
http://www.networkworld.com/community/?q=node/9636 [networkworld.com]

Re:As predictable as snow in winter (1)

Svartalf (2997) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210794)

Whoa... When did THAT billboard go up? I'd like to think I'd have spotted it in the last week or so.

Re:As predictable as snow in winter (1)

netbuzz (955038) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211350)

I noticed the billboard for the first time yesterday. Don't know for sure when it when up, but I go by there every day and can't imagine it would have escaped my attention (he says, knowing full well that's not exactly true).

Re:As predictable as snow in winter (1)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211062)

Yes, details matter. I'm sure if you told surveyed people about the Zune, most of them would be excited about the WiFi feature and that they'd get one. Once you told them the real details about it, there would be less enthusiasm about purchasing it.

Lol (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17210524)

Reminds me of the "Black People Love Us!" website.

Did I miss Casual Friday ? (5, Insightful)

Joebert (946227) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210534)

How can a survey like this go unnoticed by the Slashdot audience untill after it's been conducted ?
Did anyone here actually participate in this survey ?

Re:Did I miss Casual Friday ? (1)

peragrin (659227) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211320)

The same way the Yankee group can produce a study saying that most IT admins surveyed don't like linux and are not going to support it in their IT depts.

They use a very carefully selected group. In the Case of Gartner they surveyed Win2k and win2k3 Admins only.

MSFT probably surveyed their people who have bought software assurance licenses. Slashdot users generally aren't amoung that group.

Re:Did I miss Casual Friday ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17211364)

I was hit with a survey over this (looks like a different one though); I refused to continue after the first question had no possible negative response.

Patent infringement (4, Funny)

kernelpanicked (882802) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210548)

Careful Novell. I'm almost positive Microsoft has patents that cover these sorts of bullshit surveys.

Look at how it's phrased (1)

Elentari (1037226) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210646)

"Nearly all respondents agree with improving interoperability, having products that work well together, and having tools that make it easier to manage mixed Windows® and Linux environments."

Who's going to oppose that? It's not the good/bad quality of the deal itself that the survey addresses, but the benefits that MS/Novell are trying to sell.

Mod parent up (1)

Eric Damron (553630) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211268)

He hit the nail right on the head. BTW deal is really important to Microsoft. Not that they care about interoperability. They just want to spread the impression that they have claim to parts of Linux so that they can destroy the free nature of OSS.

spred the fud (2, Insightful)

wardk (3037) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210676)

why even bother reporting such nonsense?

it's not news, it's BS.

I suggest slashdot and others ignore it altogether instead of indignantly reporting it.

Well, Not Always (2, Interesting)

jack_csk (644290) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210688)

As far as I concern, some of the businesses do care if they can transfer their infrastructure among different Linux distros / Unices.

By forming alliance with Microsoft, Novell is promoting some sort of vendor lock-in, which will eventually lead to Microsoft's eclipse of Linux's (including Novell and other Linux vendors) market

Re:Well, Not Always (1)

mikesd81 (518581) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210800)

As far as I concern, some of the businesses do care if they can transfer their infrastructure among different Linux distros / Unices.


I'm not sure how or if this deal would effect Unis or sun at all?

What kind of customers were surveyed? (1)

bogaboga (793279) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210700)

I wonder what kind of customers were surveyed? If these customers were like me who once supported the deal, then I am really worried about Novell's future.

You see, Novell will be forced to leave out important upgrades to the [Linux] kernel if parts of this kernel end up licensed under the upcoming GPL v3. When that happens, Novell will be forced to offer an "inferior" kernel to its customers. I believe no one can say that this is positive.

When I look into Novell's past, I fail to see any positive thing they (Novell) have done to whatever they've acquired.

Re:What kind of customers were surveyed? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210850)

You see, Novell will be forced to leave out important upgrades to the [Linux] kernel if parts of this kernel end up licensed under the upcoming GPL v3

GPLv2 and GPLv3 are potentially incompatible and thus this is unlikely.

On the other hand, they won't be able to distribute GPLv3 programs, so the distribution will have to be lighter and that will hurt them more.

Re:What kind of customers were surveyed? (1)

JonJ (907502) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210906)

The kernel is most certainly staying GPLv2, what Novell should be worried about is the GNU-toolchain and other software(samba) which is going to go GPLv3.

Re:What kind of customers were surveyed? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17211624)

If you read the article you would know what kind of custumers were surveyed. They surveyed businesses with some interest in using Linux on servers. They did not survey any individual users. Of course you would approve of the deal if it meant that it could make your business run more smoothly. They are not at all considering all of the miniscule details that /. folks complain and bicker about.

Predictable (1)

Oddscurity (1035974) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210718)

Novell and Microsoft have commissioned a survey to prove that customers love their interoperability and patent deal
If you commission a survey to prove something, of course it's going to prove what you want. Maybe they should've commissioned a survey asking people what they *think* about it.

That pretty much matches my survey (2, Funny)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210730)

95% of the people using a computer don't understand it at all.

Coincidence?

The Focus on Interoperability (2, Interesting)

dsci (658278) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210740)

Warning: Opinion and Anecdotal discussion to follow; one size does NOT fit all.

All this focus on interoperability is ASSUMING businesses care about operating with Windows. Certainly some do, and they may care about interoperability issues. Others don't; I know my consulting business is a near-nonexistent speck in the grand scheme of things, but I care not one whit about interoperating with Windows. My business is Linux based, and when I set up protocols for dealing with clients, they include cross-platform data formats.

The only time I care about interop with Windows is when a client has a specific need - like the VPN I designed for a client last year. And what I found in that project was 99.99% of ALL the project headaches came from Windows - activation issues, 2003 Server licensing issues, 2003 Server MTU problems, etc.

Anymore, if a client is completely Windows centric and demands a Windows centric solution to their problem, I typically to not even submit a proposal. That's how I view all this interoperability stuff - it is the OTHER players that must conform to the Windows way of doing things; there is no INTERoperability (imho) - it's "operate with Windows' closed way of doing everything, or go play somewhere else."

Well, my business is playing somewhere else. My experience, and those of my clients, is that the solutions I provide LAST and don't force them into Vendor Lock-In and similar, related nonsense. As I said above, this approach is not for everybody.

Re:The Focus on Interoperability (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17211808)

99% of businesses that deal with large servers and huge numbers of PCs care very much about interoperability with Windows. When you actually have to communicate with other people and other businesses, you can't afford to have your personal biases completely control the way you function.

Maybe the reason that 99.99% of your problems came from Windows issues is that since you don't use Windows, maybe you just don't know what the hell you're doing when it comes to Windows.

It's great that you have such a successful business that you can afford to be so selective. Way to stick it to the man! You'll show old Gates yet.

And in other news (2, Funny)

bmo (77928) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210754)

General Augusto Pinochet was "elected" supreme ruler of Chile again.

"According to the survey 'Ninety-five percent approve of the collaboration"

Collaboration indeed. Collaborators will be shot.

--
BMO

The FUD was so thick... (1)

inode_buddha (576844) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210758)

you could cut it with a knife.

Re:The FUD was so thick... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17210924)

You must have some knife. It was so thick I broke mine in half!

Get the facts? (2, Interesting)

feranick (858651) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210804)

Is this a new version of Microsoft "Get the facts [microsoft.com] "?

That's a relief.... (1)

StressGuy (472374) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210822)

I first read that as "Microsoft and Novell PATENT customer support.

although I probably shouldn't say that out loud (or type that in print...or whatever)

PSB (3, Insightful)

phoric (833867) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210824)

From the article: "PSB is a strategic communications firm that specializes in research-based recommendations for its clients. PSB has conducted research studies for Microsoft over the past 8 years." Wow, a POSITIVE survey that was commissioned by Microsoft, to the customers of Microsoft, by a company who regularly does commissioned reports for Microsoft. Who woulda thought?

MS should play nice (2, Interesting)

businessnerd (1009815) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210852)

The thing I don't get about Microsoft, is that they don't really need this deal with Novell. This is afterall about the server market. In the server market, Microsoft is not just an OS vendor, they have other mission critical software that connects to many other machines. For instance, Active Directory. If Microsoft made Active Directory interoperable with *nix clients, then I think that Active Directory use would go up. Afterall, Active Directory's market is limited to those whose datacenters are mostly Windows. What about the rest of the world that probably has some kind of hybrid. Some Windows here, some Linux there, maybe some Unix or even a Mac server thrown in somewhere. For these types of situations, they either use something like OpenLDAP or maybe use a third party AD add-on for the interoperability. Most are probably using a *nix based solution. If Active Directory were able to handle any client, I think more companies would consider AD since it would be more flexible. If you're all windows, using AD locks you into more windows and makes adding a linux server very difficult. On the desktop market, MS have a monopoly they can exploit, but not so much with the server market. The same should be applied to MS SQL server, Exchange and all the rest. The more flex you give the customer, the more likely they are to choose your product (unless it's a complete piece of crap)

Re:MS should play nice (2, Informative)

IflyRC (956454) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210990)

So I guess this article [novell.com] on how to configure Ubuntu to authentic through Active Directory is a figment of my imagination since Active Directory is 100% only available to Windows?

You do realize that Active Directory is based on LDAP right? Microsoft's ADSI API's can also be used to connect to LDAP stores as well as Active Directory. I don't think a solution would be hard to work on - a little time consuming, but I don't see Microsoft locking out everyone else 100%.

They can commission all the surveys they want (3, Informative)

strike6 (823490) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210872)

I've been an ardent Novell supporter for 15 years and am a certified CNE on NW 4.x and 5.x. They've been messed up at marketing for a long time but always made great technology. Now I feel they've abandoned the tech community, after finally finding a path that might lead to their long term existence after Netware. I'll never again support or recommend Novell products to anyone, no matter what their clearly biased surveys say.

Republican pollsters... (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210890)

Look like some recently out-of-work Repbulican pollsters got new jobs. Still wearing the same suit and using the same set of numbers as well.

9 out of 10 customers couldn't find their own arse (1)

backwardMechanic (959818) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210904)

Bullshit surveys saying all's well and the customers love it - now we know Novell have been bought out by the Redmond beast.

If i paid somebody to say (1)

MECC (8478) | more than 7 years ago | (#17210980)

That sex with a crazed adult gorilla was good, would you join in?

Re:If i paid somebody to say (1)

Joebert (946227) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211800)

Be able to tell everyone I had great sex without someone being able to go around saying the oppisite and get paid for it ?
Count me in !

Understandable Response (2, Interesting)

Christopher_Edwardz (1036954) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211002)

Customers aren't qualified to comment, as in political surveys. They also tend to be management types who have a pathological need to seem smart.

Coupled with the psychological predisposition, given no additional evidence, an affirmative response will be provided.

Such that if you asked:

Do you think, in general, that it is a good idea that Wizerbangslopinpop and Akerwhackdoodle are snifflewagging the shooterscoots?

They'll say yes most of the time. Nor will they be inclined to ask questions as this would mean they are not "in the know", which is presumably why the survey people are asking them in the first place. (Of course, the marketdroids just tell them this because it gets them in the door and some face time.)

The smarter ones will try to hedge around the unknowns to glean some sort of contextual meaning, but still are likely not to know what they are talking about.

Hence, the exercise is good for comic relief and spin-value, but not for much else.

On a personal note: When I was in High School (way too many years ago...*sigh*), I did a survey for extra credit in Psych. I had a simple survey for science class with a single question:

"For extra credit equivalent to a 9 weeks exam, would you take a frontal lobotomy instead?"

I admit that I tinkered with the context clues in the sentence by equating taking a test with the likely unknown "frontal lobotomy", however 65% (roughly) of the respondents (out of a pool of ~100) said they would be happy to.

The psych instructor got pretty irritated at having to explain that he was not going to perform lobotomies on students in lieu of a 9weeks exam. But, I did learn a great deal, laughed myself to tears, and I got an A!

Statistics can be made to say anything (1)

davewalden (1028118) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211016)

Anyone can create a poll and skew the results. Duh!

Re:Statistics can be made to say anything (1)

Iphtashu Fitz (263795) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211212)

I had to take a statistics course in college. The very first thing the professor did on the first day was to demonstrate that statistics show the divorce rate is directly proportional to the number of golf courses in any given area. It was a pretty good demonstration of how statistics can be twisted to show whatever you want.

Microsoft Novell Survey (3, Funny)

Eric Damron (553630) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211032)

Would you rather:
A) More companies enter into a similar patent agreement with Microsoft.
B) Have a hot poker shoved up your ass.

Would you use Linux more if:
A) More companies paid Microsoft to prevent Microsoft from bringing a harassment law suit against users.
B) Had a hot poker shoved up your ass.

Would you feel more confortable:
A) Doing business with companies who have partnered with Microsoft
B) Having a hot poker shoved up your ass. ...

All I can say is.. (1)

bealzabobs_youruncle (971430) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211058)

I work at a large small company that is now a subsidiary of a large multi-national; we are about 40% Windows/60% *nix on the back end (while they are near 100% Windows with a handful of exceptions). All of us admins here are big fans of OSS solutions but have to write extensive justifications and documentation for every Linux solution we want to use, far more than when we use a commercial Windows package. Within days of this announcement our PHBs were stating that using an MS blessed distro would make our lives much easier in the future. Another meeting today and it appears the purchasing monkeys have been directed to see what exactly Novell is offering up. So clearly this FUD has reached it's intended audience. Say what you will, the MS FUD/PR machine is a well tuned beast...

Not relevant (1)

Eric Damron (553630) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211144)

What a carefully worded survey given to cherry picked customers say isn't very relevant. The only thing relevant is what the people donating the code (that would be the Open Source community) feels. Most of us could care less if companies want to use our code.

Revealed during the DOJ trial ... (1)

Jerry (6400) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211230)

Was an email from Gates asking if a poll "could be found" which showed at least an 85% approval rating for the topic of the email.

Two weeks later a poll with that exact result appeared in a Windows centric site.

I doubt it was coincidence, and neither is this most recent push-poll for Microvell

Of course it looks good now! (1)

SecurityGuy (217807) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211240)

Microsoft's (probably patented) business model has long been known. Embrace, extend, extinguish.

It's just like a relationship. Everything's wonderful when it's all new. Your partner is wonderful, and together you're even better. Your confidence soars, and you try new things you'd never dreamed of before. Then she cuts you off in the knees, leaving you liquidating your assets to pay for hers. Watch out, Novell. That's your future. Enjoy the honeymoon. You're a banana in bed with the industry's 800 pound gorilla.

Of course, being a slashdot poster, all that relationship stuff is purely speculative.

Seems Reasonable (1)

Quantam (870027) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211244)

Novell did what was in its business interest (and that of its customers, as Novell is a business in a competitive market) to do. The people who are up in arms over this deal are the ones that may be hurt by it - that is, non-Novell customers.

Not bad, but it is? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17211274)

'Few people have claimed the deal is bad for Novell or Microsoft's customers. The question has been whether it is good for the open source movement, open source developers, or indeed Novell itself...'

Anyone else catch the backtracking in just two sentences here?

this whole deal is pure bullshit (3, Insightful)

Alien Being (18488) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211476)

If MS really cared about interoperability, they would not have been playing dirty tricks with APIs, protocols and file formats for the last twenty years. MS wants no part of Open Systems. Their talk about intellectual property rights is just a veiled threat, "buy from us or we'll pay some SCO-like operation to sue you."

The question that was missing from that survey is "do you trust Microsoft to keep their promises and not attempt to lock you into proprietary products?"

LOL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17211480)

Here's the heart of the "survey", following lots of leading questions along the lines of "shouldn't IT providers cooperate more to improve interoperablity?":

On November 2nd, Microsoft and Novell announced a set of broad business and technical collaboration agreements to build, market, and support a series of new solutions to improve interoperability for customers and make Novell and Microsoft products work better together. The two companies also announced an agreement to provide each other's customers with patent coverage for their respective products.

        Overall, do you approve of this
          collaboration between Novell
          and Microsoft?

----
What else did you expect from a story on PRNewswire?

Well, I guess I'm not a customer anymore! (2, Interesting)

lotho brandybuck (720697) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211648)

I run Suse on my machine, a desktop I depend on every single day for engineering work. I wasn't thrilled when Novell bought Suse, but I upgraded to Suse Linux 9.2 anyways. It says "NOVELL" on the box. I think it was about $80.

Well, guess what. Next time I build up a new 'puter or upgrade the OS on this one... I'm not going to use Suse, even thought it may not be as seamless a transition for me.

I feel a little bad, because the Gecko is kinda cute, and the "random phone support lady" that came up on the while-installing screen was really really hot (I cannot be the only one to notice this). But I depend on Open Source Software and I know who my friends are and aren't.

Becuase I don't like the deal, I'm not a customer anymore, and wouldn't be involved in Novell/Microsofts little survey. Does this prove my point or prove theirs, or both??

Great for PHB / Gartner Group / Rob Enderle Types (2, Insightful)

mergy (42601) | more than 7 years ago | (#17211782)

Let's face it. 'Surveys' like these and the ones from Gartner and the wonderful columns from people like Enderle are all to try and soothe the pointy-headed bosses and other execs so they think they know something about something happening in the server rooms of the world.

These sort of 'surveys' and the type of 'research' by these sorts of people/organizations is such a waste anyway. It is the equivalent of Cliff-Notes(TM) for the IT world so it makes perfect sense that some PHB will now come to one of us and say 'Hey, did you hear about the MS/Novell agreement, should make things even better for us eh?'

Geez, get back to work...
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?
or Connect with...

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>