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Complete Mozart Works Now Free

samzenpus posted more than 7 years ago | from the eine-kleine-internet-nachtmusik dept.

Music 304

An anonymous reader writes "Mozart's year-long 250th birthday party is ending on a high note with the musical scores of his complete works available for the first time free on the Internet. Although most classical music is obviously too old to be under copyright, the rights to specific editions of pieces are owned by the publishers. Now, the International Mozart Foundation has acquired the right to publish the prestigious New Mozart Edition of every Mozart work on the internet. The response has been so overwhelming that the Foundation has been forced to increase their server capacity."

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Mozardot (4, Funny)

Pig Hogger (10379) | more than 7 years ago | (#17231888)

Are you sure it isn't the Slashdot effect???

Nope..It's lots of fans! (5, Informative)

TrisexualPuppy (976893) | more than 7 years ago | (#17231916)

The response has been so overwhelming that the Foundation has been forced to increase their server capacity.
One of my cousins works with the NMA. He's currently out in Germany. It was amazing how QUICKLY news got out, and their servers were bogged down like crazy (and still are). They have had to temporarily get several new colos up. In the first couple of hours alone, there was a transfer of something like fifteen terabytes. That's WELL more than the usual monthly average!

Re:Nope..It's lots of fans! (5, Insightful)

Ironsides (739422) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232000)

Please tell him that if there was ever a use for BitTorrent, this would be it.

Re:Nope..It's lots of fans! (3, Informative)

TrisexualPuppy (976893) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232150)

Please tell him that if there was ever a use for BitTorrent, this would be it.
Considerations are already in place. I don't know what the deal was, but they were having some "legal" issue with running a tracker. Stay tuned to the TSP for more updates!!

Re:Nope..It's lots of fans! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17232422)

There's been a (pirated) torrent [torrentspy.com] out for a while of his complete works. I'm not sure what the legality of it would be now.

Re:Nope..It's lots of fans! (1)

Ironsides (739422) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232462)

That is a recording of the music. Those MP3s (or whatever they are) are still 'copyright infringement'. This only covers the sheet music/written score. It's like the difference between a books actual text and a book on tape/cd.

Re:Nope..It's lots of fans! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17232520)

Because of course, no one would ever put non-music files on bittorrent.

It'd make the interblag divide by zero.

He meant putting torrents of the music (printed) files on the site. Dimwit.

Re:Mozardot (2, Informative)

Werkhaus (549466) | more than 7 years ago | (#17231932)

Possibly. Apparently, (from the website) "We are overvelmed by the resonance of this website.".

A+ (1, Insightful)

grumpygrodyguy (603716) | more than 7 years ago | (#17231904)

Damn straight, information wants to be free!

Re:A+ (4, Insightful)

s20451 (410424) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232262)

But producers of information still need to get paid.

Re:A+ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17232372)

But producers of information still need to get paid.
Damn straight. Just wait until I begin enforcing my patent on apparatus for electronic display medium for musical notes and method for transmission thereof.

Re:A+ (1)

jZnat (793348) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232774)

Let the free market sort that out. If the producers deserve to get paid, they will get paid.

Slashdot effect.. (4, Funny)

Beuno (740018) | more than 7 years ago | (#17231910)

The response has been so overwhelming that the Foundation has been forced to increase their server capacity.

And now they're going to have to increase them again...

I doubt it. The Slashdotting is no more. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17232118)

The Slashdot effect just isn't what it used to be. This could be due to a number of factors, the main ones being a decreasing number of readers, and advances in server technology.

Rumor has it that many Slashdot users have moved to sites like Reddit and Digg. According to Alexa [alexa.com], Digg has seen massive growth, Reddit has seen moderate growth, and Slashdot's reach has been tapering off. I know many find Alexa's data to be suspect, but it is still worth considering.

Even low-end servers today can handle massive amounts of traffic with ease. While hundreds of hits per second could take down a 200 MHz server quite easily a few years back, it's not uncommon for even dynamically generated sites on shared hosts to barely notice a Slashdotting or even a Digging.

Sheet music only? (5, Funny)

rinkjustice (24156) | more than 7 years ago | (#17231936)

Can you download the music files also? If so, where are the links?

Re:Sheet music only? (2, Funny)

NeoSkink (737843) | more than 7 years ago | (#17231956)

It's scores only, although if you have the instruments, the studio, and whatnot... You could make the music files. ;)

Re:Sheet music only? (1)

jcarkeys (925469) | more than 7 years ago | (#17231968)

Unfortunately, the performer's still own the rights to their performances of Mozart's works. Though you can find limited works freely available, you can't find it all.

Re:Sheet music only? (5, Funny)

stubear (130454) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232064)

You got the fucking code, compile it yourself.

Re:Sheet music only? (1)

Jello B. (950817) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232120)

I can't mount /etc/violin...

Re:Sheet music only? (4, Funny)

Nasarius (593729) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232154)

That's /dev/violin, you noob.

Re:Sheet music only? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17232186)

more precisely, /dev/violina

Re:Sheet music only? (5, Interesting)

Carthag (643047) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232322)

wget -r -l 0 -np -Ajpg http://dme.mozarteum.at/ [mozarteum.at]; gocr *.jpg | txt2midi | mid2mp3 | mpg123 Aw yea

Re:Sheet music only? (4, Insightful)

gringer (252588) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232656)

I wasn't aware that gocr by default translated musical scores into text. I'd expect lots of random letters if it attempted to parse those scores.

Re:Sheet music only? (4, Insightful)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232720)

Wait... Even if that worked...

Why would you convert the midi file to an mp3, just to play with mpg123? Leaving aside for a moment that mpg321 is better, and there are better things still, why not just play the midi?

wget -r -l 0 -np -Ajpg http://dme.mozarteum.at/ [mozarteum.at]; gocr *.jpg | txt2midi | timidity -

After all, you're wanting to do this realtime...

Re:Sheet music only? (5, Informative)

FireFlie (850716) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232114)

If you want classical mp3s Classic Cat [classiccat.net] has a large selection of recordings of many composers' works. I believe it is all free and legal. Lot of good stuff.

This was on AskMeFi earlier today. (1)

Kadin2048 (468275) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232290)

It's interesting that this topic came up on Slashdot. Earlier today I was reading a question on Ask Metafilter [metafilter.com] about this very site, regarding downloading some of their files as PDFs.

It seems as though they present the PDFs using some sort of weird PHP interface that discourages downloading and saving them.

It's also worth pointing out that the scores are not really 'free' in the free-software sense, they're released under a fairly restrictive license [redhost24-001.com] that they are claiming applies to the scanned images of the scores, independent of the scores themselves (which should be in the public domain). I tend to agree with the MeFi-er that this claim is spurious, at least in the U.S., since simply scanning a document isn't enough of a creative act to put it under a new copyright. It seems more like a collection of recipes or other non-copyrightable or public domain material.

At any rate, it would be interesting to see if Slashdotters can have any more success figuring out a way to download the PDF files than the folks on MeFi did.

Re:This was on AskMeFi earlier today. (2, Informative)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232470)

It's also worth pointing out that the scores are not really 'free' in the free-software sense, they're released under a fairly restrictive license [redhost24-001.com] that they are claiming applies to the scanned images of the scores, independent of the scores themselves (which should be in the public domain).

The only scores definitely in the public domain are Mozart's original autographs. Engraved editions of his music, provided they were produced after 1923, are under copyright. It's the same situation with books like the Oxford Classical Texts. Whoever wrote out a given papyrus of Herodotos' History has long been dead and lost copyright over his work, but the text that Oxford has compiled [amazon.com] by comparing manuscripts is copyright.

Creating a definitive text from various scribbled manuscripts is painstaking work, it's no surprise that copyright law covers this process as well as that of purely original works.

Re:This was on AskMeFi earlier today. (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232852)

AFAIK, the scanned images are just that -- scanned images. There may be other parts of the site that are subject to copyright, but I don't believe those images are.

I mean, what you're essentially saying is, once copyright expires on these PDFs, I can convert them to jpegs or pngs and claim copyright on those. How does that make sense?

PDF? PHP? (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232842)

Hmm... Some of the stuff looks like PDF, but is really just a huge assembly of images. The PHP isn't as relevant as the AJAX...

Anyway, one very easy way to force a download is to run Firefox without the Acrobat plugin. I use a 64-bit Firefox, but you can probably do this with a portable Firefox, or by temporarily renaming/removing the acrobat plugin dll (or so) from your Firefox plugin dir. Make sure your download settings don't automatically open Acrobat, then simply go to one of these pages. It'll prompt you with a choice to either open Acrobat or save the file.

You could also try clicking on the document and hitting shift+ctrl+s. On my Linux Acrobat Reader, at least when standing alone, this is the keyboard shortcut for File->Save a Copy. (I don't use the plugin much because I like my 64-bit Firefox, and acroread is 32-bit, but this might work from inside the browser.)

Another possibility is the Download Embedded extension -- or "addon", if you must. Works on just about anything embedded in a webpage. Not guaranteed to work on everything, of course -- a lot of Flash will load other Flash files from inside the SWF, and really, a Firefox extension can't do anything inside of a Firefox plugin. But it should work for PDFs. However, I haven't tried it on this page -- it may be that the page uses a frame, and I'm not sure Download Embedded handles frames (since they don't require an <embed> tag.)

And finally, you could just do a recursive wget, and essentially spider their entire site, including the PDFs. Then just do something like "find -iname '*.pdf'" if they're too buried for you to find on your own.

Let us know if you're bold enough to set up a torrent, if you decide to go the wget route!

Give the RIAA time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17231938)

and they will find a way for one of their members to place it under Copyright so anyone using Mozart's music could and would face lawsuits.

Re:Give the RIAA time (5, Insightful)

westlake (615356) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232554)

and they will find a way for one of their members to place it under Copyright so anyone using Mozart's music could and would face lawsuits.

This edition is copyrighted.

Mozart in the original would be of use only to an academic --- How do you read his notation? What instruments was he writing for? --- and so on.

Students are being given "fair use" rights to study modern "translations" of Mozart.

Musicians are not being given rights to public performance of the scores. There is a difference and it is a difference that matters.

Re:Give the RIAA time (1)

Thomas the Doubter (1016806) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232752)

Hmm, What if I was to "reinterpret" a Copywritten edition using original notes I found at the library, and then reissued the resulting score as Public Domain. How much modification would I have to do to avoid legal trouble? It would be interesting in court...

This is an especially ironic idea, as supposedly the original sources are the same.

Completed Mozart Now Works For Free? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17231950)

They finally finished reassembling him, eh? And he creates new works without charging a penny, eh?? EXCELLENT!

I now command the recently re-animated corpse of Mozart to pen me a symphony, with no expectation of compensation! POST-HASTE!

Suggestions (1)

KrackHouse (628313) | more than 7 years ago | (#17231970)

The news article doesn't link to the site but has a link to the Amazon boxed set. Why aren't they using bit torrent? The site is a UI disaster. It's unclear how to find actual music.

Re:Suggestions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17232020)

It's unclear how to find actual music.
Err, I clicked on 'Search'...

Re:Suggestions (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17232050)

The site has much more features than simply the downloading of scores. It also allows the text searching of critical reports and scholarly articles, which is a very valuable resource. One must remember the site is for both amateur and professional musician/musicologists, and so something like bittorrent would be totally insufficient for the features they have planned. Plus, professional musicians are generally computer-illiterate (I say this as a professional musician myself).

The problem with the site that I think is causing confusion is the fact that it is in German at first (though you can switch to the English version). Otherwise, play around with it a bit and it works fairly well. I'm sure they can improve on the UI though... but that's not the most important thing by any stretch.

Re:Suggestions (2, Informative)

Petrushka (815171) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232586)

The site is a UI disaster. It's unclear how to find actual music.

What do you mean? Click on "Search the NMA Online", and they give you a list of volumes. Click on the volume to expand it. Once you're looking at a list of individual works and movements, click on the Adobe logo to get a PDF file. Where's the difficulty?

Sampling and Remixing? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17231972)

So this means that I would be able to sample and remix anything on that site (and possibly promote it) without fear of legal recourse? Hot shit, time for 100 Beef Storm Posse / Mozart remixes!

Re:Sampling and Remixing? (1)

FireFlie (850716) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232168)

If it were possible to remix the scores, I would imagine that they would be all for it.

weirdest torrent ever? (2, Funny)

straponego (521991) | more than 7 years ago | (#17231976)

Probably not, but... okay, weirdest non-porn torrent ever?

Konquerer (3, Informative)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232006)

Don't bother trying to get in with Konquerer. Holy mis-rendering Batman!

Are you using Konqueror 1.x? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17232414)

The site renders perfectly using Konqueror 3.5.0. And don't forget that Konqueror is now at version 3.5.5! I just haven't bothered to upgrade, since 3.5.0 works so well.

I have to assume that you're just a Firefox fanboy who wants to tarnish the image of Konqueror through false allegations of "mis-renderings". Please, I'd suggest you stop. It not only makes you look bad, but it really drags down the entire Firefox community when their users have to resort to making false allegations about competing browsers.

Rock Me Amadeus (1)

jamesjw (213986) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232022)

So does this mean I can download Falco's stuff without legal issues now? :)

Re:Rock Me Amadeus (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17232100)

So does this mean I can download Falco's stuff without legal issues now? :)

Whether it's legal or not, you will never be able to download Falco without having "issues".

other options (5, Informative)

bcrowell (177657) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232030)

Before anyone gets too excited -- there are plenty of public-domain editions of Mozart. This is just one particular edition that's going to be available online for free. There's actually a huge amount of PD sheed music available at Mutopia [mutopiaproject.org]. The nice thing about the Mutopia stuff is that it's in a format that's editable using free software (Lilypond). For instance, I've taken some Mozart horn duets and arranged them so my daughter and I can play them on violin and viola. Because it's in Lilypond format, it's easy to transpose, arrange, whatever. If all you want is digital scans of PD editions, there are various sites that will let you download scans for free [dmoz.org]. One thing that seems a little goofy about the NMA thing is that they make you agree to use this web site only for personal study and not to make copies except for my personal use under "Fair Use" principles of Copyright law as defined in this license agreement. Uh ... fair use is an exception to copyright. Hell, I can copy a Britney Spears CD and call it fair use.

Re:other options (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17232146)

"that they make you agree to use this web site only for personal study and not to make copies except for my personal use under "Fair Use" principles of Copyright law as defined in this license agreement. Uh ... fair use is an exception to copyright. "

Not where I live it isn't. We only have 'fair dealing', which is, er, unfair. Its possible they're attempting to loosen the license so that /worldwide/ you get US law rights at minimum.

Re:other options (1)

tony1343 (910042) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232452)

Yep, fair use is an affirmative defense to copyright infringement in the U.S. It is broader than "fair dealing" or whatnot that Europe has, which is why some say we aren't in compliance with the Berne Convention. The U.S. though sees copyright as providing an economic incentive to create, while Europe sees it more as a natural right tied to the personality of the creator. This is why the Europe has much broader moral rights than the U.S. (once again some claim we aren't living up to the Berne Convention). I see fair use as a pretty good doctrine though. It allows for such things as time-shifting, which might not otherwise be allowed without it. Possibly contintental europe has more exceptions within their copyright law (I'm not sure). This might just be a distinction between a common law legal system and civil law. I'm sure nobody here cares about this rambling though.

Re:other options (1)

bcrowell (177657) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232576)

The really scary thing about fair use is that you may think you're covered, but the criteria are vague enough that you never really know until you've been sued, and the verdict is in :-)

One thing I'm a little uncomfortable with is the way people are using fair use so much on Wikipedia, for images. In some cases, I think people are not bothering to come up with their own free-as-in-speech images, because there's already an illustration on WP, which is under fair use.

Re:other options (2, Informative)

RockyMountain (12635) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232706)

Before anyone gets too excited -- there are plenty of public-domain editions of Mozart.

I disagree.

This is _very_ exciting news. There are indeed some public-domain editions of a very tiny subset of Mozart's compelete works. Mutopia is the best example, but even there, a keyword search on "Mozart" gives only about 60 hits -- for Leopold and Wolfgang combined. Well, Wolfgang composed 626+ opusses, so at best Mutopia has 10%. In fact far less becase many are incomplete scores (fragments, extracted parts, arrangements for particular instrument groupings, etc.), and many are duplications (the same work arranged for different instrument groupings).

What's more exciting is that these are high quality, authentic scores for original instrumentation. That's hard to find, even if you're prepared to pay top dollar. And consider that a symphony or voilin concerto complete score (all orchestral parts plus soloist) is likely to set you back many hundreds of dollars -- just for a single opus.

As a violinist, for me this is just truly wonderful news. Oh, if only t'were true of more composers. Dare we hope? Hmmm Beethoven's 250th birthday is 2020. :-)

Re:other options (1)

bcrowell (177657) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232792)

Mutopia is the best example, but even there, a keyword search on "Mozart" gives only about 60 hits [...]
I didn't say there were plenty of public-domain editions of Mozart, online, for free, in editable formats, on Mutopia. I just said there were plenty of public-domain editions of Mozart. Go to a university library, and I'm sure you'll find quite a few on the shelves.

And consider that a symphony or voilin concerto complete score (all orchestral parts plus soloist) is likely to set you back many hundreds of dollars -- just for a single opus.
It would be interesting to know what the actual legal status of these scores is. The NMA page seems to be saying that they're copyrighted, and a public performance by an orchestra would be illegal. (On their site, they say "only for personal study.") Of course, it could be a case where people who don't actully own a copyright posture themselves as if they do; that's very common.

that's not really "free" (5, Insightful)

idlake (850372) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232036)

What they have put up is hardly "free"; it requires you to agree to a license agreement that limits you to "personal use" under "fair use" principles. Well, geez, you already could copy the music under those principles before.

Companies like Barereiter have been playing tricks with copyright for a long time, for example, by slightly modifying sheet music every few years with meaningless (and often, erroneous) "interpretations".

This is not how music should be treated 200 years after a composer's death, in particular in the day and age of the Internet. There is no reason why Mozart's entire body of work shouldn't be digitized and freely available with no restrictions on use at all, in a form like Project Gutenberg.

Re:that's not really "free" (1)

vga_init (589198) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232182)

If the term of the copyright has expired, I don't actually think any kind of license can be enforced anymore. The summary implied that the copyright expired on the works, but is that not true?

Re:that's not really "free" (4, Informative)

jfengel (409917) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232258)

The copyright is expired on the works, but not on this particular edition of the works, which is a particularly well-researched one.

Think of an edition as being like a translation from another language. You could, if you want, transcribe the music yourself from Mozart's original documents, if you had them. (They're in various libraries and collections throughout the world; a friend of mine worked with some at the Library of Congress.) In fact, there are often several originals, some incomplete and some conflicting with each other.

It's a lot of work, like doing a translation, and like a translation, the resulting document is itself a new work with a new original copyright date.

Re:that's not really "free" (1)

stubear (130454) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232298)

Don't confuse the slashbots with truth and reason, they bite back. I've tried explaining the simple concepts of copyright law to them and they refuse to comprehend.

Re:that's not really "free" (1)

EvanED (569694) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232260)

I don't think that's true. I read the summary as "despite the copyright on these editions still applying, they are being released..."

Re:that's not really "free" (2, Insightful)

rk (6314) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232242)

Pretty slick how they convinced a charitable trust to pony up six figures to grant us rights we pretty much already have.

I was really stoked until I went to the page and saw that.

Re:that's not really "free" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17232496)

We may have technically had the rights, but in practice none of us would be able to easily make use of those rights. Now we can.

Re:that's not really "free" (1)

westlake (615356) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232770)

Pretty slick how they convinced a charitable trust to pony up six figures to grant us rights we pretty much already have.

You have the right to use editions of Mozart in the public domain.

That does not necessarily give you what you need for academic study, public or private performance.

How do you interpret Mozart's original manuscripts? What instruments did he write for? Under what conditions was his music performed?

It is not a trivial problem to resurrect a computer game that has been out of print for ten years. What do you suppose happens when the "source code" and secondary resources are over two hundred years old ?

See? Copyright has its limits (4, Funny)

Weaselmancer (533834) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232038)

I'm sure Mozart is finally wealthy enough to where having his music in the public domain won't hurt him.

Wait? He's been dead for 215 years? Oh. Nevermind.

Re:See? Copyright has its limits (1)

Microlith (54737) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232060)

Great way to make a completely invalid point.

There's no question that Mozart's works are in the public domain. But performances are still copyrighted. These have just been released freely.

Re:See? Copyright has its limits (1)

EvanED (569694) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232238)

Not just performances though, but publications of the sheet music.

German Musicians... (1)

goatpunch (668594) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232078)

Cute message from the site: "NOTE: We are overvelmed by the resonance of this website. We regret any delays in accessing this site and are working on expanding our server capacities"

Re:German Musicians... (1)

zitintheass (1005533) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232574)

Yep, dumb Salzburgians, I live close to them and they refuse to speak english. Thats why EU is so fucked up, French and Germans will never speak english... so if I fell in the Alps from my skis into some hole I am helpless.. not to mention the whole site defaults to german...

Mozart + Hilton + Britney = Party Ethics?! (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232082)

Did anyone find it funny that underneath the article on Mozart's year long birday party that there's an article [reuters.com] of Paris Hilton defending Britney's "party ethics"? I think those over-sexed party girls need some Mozart to calm them down.

Re:Mozart + Hilton + Britney = Party Ethics?! (2, Informative)

TheFoolishOne (1008229) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232226)

On the contrary. Mozart and his ilk invented the rave, although in his days, the music was better, but the drugs were pretty lousy. Still, I'd expect if Mozart was around today, we'd see his mangina flashed around the media pretty often.

Re:Mozart + Hilton + Britney = Party Ethics?! (2, Informative)

raddan (519638) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232252)

Mozart wasn't exactly the paragon of conservatism. From Wikipedia:

Shaffer's play [Amadeus] attracted criticism for portraying Mozart as vulgar and loutish, a characterization felt by many to be unfairly exaggerated, but in fact frequently confirmed by the composer's letters and other memorabilia. For example, Mozart wrote canons on the words "Leck mich im Arsch" ("Lick my arse") and "Leck mich im Arsch recht fein schön sauber" ("Lick my arse nice and clean") as party pieces for his friends.

And if you believe that Amadeus is representative of fact (which it probably is not, but is an entertaining play/movie in any event), then Mozart serves as more of a model for Paris Hilton's and Brittney Spears' current behavior than anything else. A genius... and a party animal!

Re:Mozart + Hilton + Britney = Party Ethics?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17232364)

Yeah... people forget that the first time the police had to be called to quell a riot at a concert was at the premier of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony. Nothing new under the sun.

Very good because most Mozart on p2p networks... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17232092)

...had too many notes.

Concering copyright of the Neue Mozart-Ausgabe (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17232156)

Many people here seem, as expected, look more on the copyright side of the issue. The fact is, getting such an edition together is *not* easy by any stretch. That particular edition itself (Neue Mozart-Ausgabe) took 36 years (finished in 1991) to complete. Consider the amount of money that has to be paid to musicologists to do research for the 35 years. Obviously Barenreiter doesn't want to give it away for free. So the Internationale Stiftung Mozarteum *bought* the rights of online publication from Barenreiter, and of course even then there will be limits to what you can do with it. Obviously you cannot use these scans to publish and sell your own version of it. I consider Internationale Stiftung Mozarteum very very generous, and I thank them for it.

Also, the Neue Mozart-Ausgabe is NOT public domain in any sense of the word, because of the editing. As professional musicians know, editing is *not* something you suddenly decide to do, or something where you change a few notes and that's that. It is a long process where you research all evidence (including conflicting ones), and try to build an edition that the composer himself would have approved of. And for most editions (and all of the Barenreiter ones) a critical report comes with each piece; and it documents the path of research and the evidence used.

If you want truly public domain Mozart scores, try the Alte Mozart-Ausgabe (the old complete edition), which is completely in the public domain, with partial scans if it circulating around the net. Though, if you checked on wikipedia, you'll realize how big a difference there is between the Alte and Neue Mozart-Ausgabes.

no one force anyone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17232230)

No one "forced" anyone to do anything.

these folks are just nice!


epir aew;jrasd;klf jwerioaspdfk ;asdlfkfdgpoiret;l (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17232248)

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Mod Parent Up! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17232334)

+5 Informative

Re:epir aew;jrasd;klf jwerioaspdfk ;asdlfkfdgpoire (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17232426)

Usually I love this base64-encoded stuff, but what the fuck? It's some code from some website in another language. Mod parent sideways.

Re:epir aew;jrasd;klf jwerioaspdfk ;asdlfkfdgpoire (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232676)

I tend to agree, although I only scanned the source. I don't dare run it on my server without setting up a proper sandbox first, and it's too late at night to attempt to figure out what "a proper sandbox" looks like for PHP.

copyright wasnt too long.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17232250)

I'm sure Mozart is finally wealthy enough to where having his music in the public domain won't hurt him. Wait? He's been dead for 215 years? Oh. Nevermind.

Could be worse, I can see it now. Mozart-beta [google]

Moo (1)

Chacham (981) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232500)

This story is music to my ears.

Mozart was considered a genius, by people we consider geniuses. This is definitely something to checkout.

Hardly free (2, Insightful)

Jessta (666101) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232510)

"I agree to use this web site only for personal study and not to make copies except for my personal use under "Fair Use" principles of Copyright law as defined in this license agreement." Doesn't sound very free to me.

Re:Hardly free (1)

fbjon (692006) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232672)

You're getting 35 years worth of work without any cost to you. That's just about as free as things can get without a capital F.

Re:Hardly free (2, Insightful)

jZnat (793348) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232820)

That's free of charge (i.e. gratis), not just "free". The word free by itself in this context makes no sense and leaves plenty of ambiguities.

Evaluate freeness (1, Troll)

mattr (78516) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232540)

They admit the works of Mozart are in the public domain but not the scanned images of the music.
They admit $400,000 was paid to purchase the rights to the edition, which is being put online "for free" by two foundations, but they still require that anybody not accessing solely for themselves (and I would assume this includes teachers and orchestras in this too) may not use it, but instead must purchase from a "authorized" vendor.
These are not nice people who from one side of their mouths say they are doing a public service while from the other side they force you to lie basically, if you want to share it with others. People who pay for the rights to publish online and say they are a foundation (perhaps with tax breaks?) however choose to manufacture this crazy idea that "Mozart's works" can mean something other than sheet music on paper.
I haven't seen info about Lilypond on their site, nor that they are encouraging or allowing rearrangement. It seems more likely that some people in the organization are altruistic and others are quite nasty and warping the project.
Someone should press them to put a creative commons liscense on it or just make it free.
The past year was Mozart's anniversary and to commemorate it these jerks are claiming title. If they really want to share Mozart they should free the scores and pay orchestras to perform it for an online repository like one that was recently featured. Then they could get around to soliciting free translations of the site, providing scholarly info to the wikipedia, networking mozart scholars and performers, etc. I am quite skeptical of this. That said of course I'm going to check out their sheet music and compare to others when I get a chance perhaps someone more expert can actually talk about this area.

Re:Evaluate freeness (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17232750)

You seem to think that the Internationale Stiftung Mozarteum and the other group purposefully imposed this restriction on the scores. I beg to differ. It is much more likely that it is Barenreiter that imposed this restriction. I cannot imagine that they would sell all the rights to the Neue Mozart-Ausgabe for a mere $400,000; it is the result of more than 35 years of research by many musicologists. I highly doubt $400,000 would even cover a third of the cost to hire these musicologists.

> I haven't seen info about Lilypond on their site, nor that they are encouraging or allowing rearrangement.

There is no reason whatsoever why they would mention Lilypond. I mean no disrespect to the Lilypond devs, but Lilypond is still years away from being able to be used professionally. Just check out Finale and the amount of functions that it has under its belt. To us professional musicians, a score is like a painting: everything *must* be in the exact place it is. There can be no compromises. If a software does not allow the freedom of basically placing any symbol in any position on the page, and even allowing the creation of completely new symbols, then it is not good enough. What Finale (and Sibelius) does well is present all this freedom in enough of a user-friendly way for people to actually use it.

Also, classical musicians are generally ambivalent towards rearrangement, and most musicologists would probably be against rearrangement. This is not a sign of arrogance as much as just a generally accepted practice, arising from late 19th century ideas regarding music (which would have be completely classical back then).

Re:Evaluate freeness (1)

timeOday (582209) | more than 7 years ago | (#17232848)

They admit $400,000 was paid to purchase the rights to the edition, which is being put online "for free" by two foundations, but they still require that anybody not accessing solely for themselves (and I would assume this includes teachers and orchestras in this too) may not use it, but instead must purchase from a "authorized" vendor. These are not nice people who from one side of their mouths say they are doing a public service while from the other side they force you to lie basically, if you want to share it with others.
But if they only purchased the online publishing rights, they can't grant you public performance rights, not because they're meanies but because they can't confer rights they don't have.

Obligatory Flanders and Swann quote. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17232578)

To the tune of Mozart Concerto K.495, movement III.

I once had a whim and I had to obey it,
To buy a French horn in a second-hand shop.
I polished it up and I started to play it,
In spite of the neighbours who begged me to stop.

To sound my horn,
I had to develop my embouchure.
I found my horn,
Was a bit of a devil to play.
So artfully wound,
To give you a sound,
A beautiful sound,
So rich and round.

Oh the hours I had to spend,
Before I mastered it in the end.

But that was yesterday.
And just today,
I looked in the usual place.
There was the case,
But the horn itself was missing!

Oh where can it have gone?
Haven't you, hasn't anyone seen my horn?
Oh where can it have gone?
What a blow, now I know,
I'm unable to play my Allegro.

Who swiped that horn?
I bet you a quid somebody did.
Knowing I found a concerto,
And wanted to play it,
Afraid of my talent at playing the horn.
For early today to my utter dismay,
It had vanished away like the dew in the morn.

I've lost that horn!
I know I was using it yesterday.
I've lost that horn, lost that horn,
Found that horn

There's not much hope of getting it back,
Though I'd willingly pay a reward.

I know some hearty folk,
Whose party joke's pretending to hunt with the Quorn.
Gone away, gone away.
Was it one of them who took it away?
Will you kindly return that horn?
Where is the devil who pinched my horn?
I shall tell the police!

I want that French horn back.

I miss its music more and more and more.
Without that horn I'm feeling sad and so forelorn.

I found a concerto and wanted to play it,
Displaying my talent at playing the horn.
But early today to my utter dismay,
It had totally vanished away.
I practised the horn and I wanted to play it,
But somebody took it away!
I practised the horn and was longing to play it,
But somebody took it away!

My neighbour's asleep in his bed,
I'll soon make him wish he were dead,
I'll take up the tuba instead - WAA WAA !

Salieri (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17232830)

Salieri's probably spinning in his grave so fast that he's halfway to China by now.
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