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AmigaOS 4.0 released

timothy posted more than 7 years ago | from the users-thrilled-plan-to-show-entire-retirement-home dept.

Amiga 225

tmk writes "After five years Hyperion announces the availability of AmigaOS 4.0: 'Amiga OS 4.0 is the most stable, modern and feature-rich incarnation to date of the multi-media centric operating system launched by Commodore Business Machines (CBM) in 1985 with which it still retains a high degree of compatibility.' But there is a snag: the new OS supports only the AmigaOne, which is not available anymore. According to Hyperion, the new hardware platform will be announced by third parties early 2007."

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HAHA (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17369084)

A broken POS os for Broken POS hardware that you can't get anymore. PERFECT!

Re:HAHA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17369154)

flamebait my ass, this is the fucking truth.

mod parent up (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17369458)

First they had hardware but no software; now they have software but no hardware. LOL.

Mod mod parent up parent up (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17369516)

Heh, this guy makes about as good of a point as the top parent.

I see. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17370272)

My ideas intrigue you and you wish to subscribe to my newsletter.

1st (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17369094)

1st

Oh, come on, now! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17369298)

Starting Score: 0 points
Moderation -1
100% Offtopic
Extra 'Offtopic' Modifier 0
Total Score: -1


I've seen a lot of bad moderation here on /., but this has to take the cake. He didn't get FP, but he didn't troll anybody either. He may have been offtopic, but his post still needs to be modded UP, not down.

Somebody, please mod this guy up. And, no, I'm not trolling.

Ooh (4, Funny)

Greyfox (87712) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369112)

A new release of AmigaOS! A new release of OS/2 can't be far behind!

Ooh-Beta Blocker. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17369158)

"A new release of AmigaOS! A new release of OS/2 can't be far behind!"

Funny you should say that. [ecomstation.com]

Re:Ooh (5, Funny)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369170)

I'm still waiting for my CP/M update... Curse you, Amiga users! All three of you will burn in hell!

Re:Ooh (4, Funny)

IdleTime (561841) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369396)

Well, I for one, am waiting on the new graphical OS for my Sinclair Z80. I hear it's going to kick some ass, the only problem is the boot time of 2 weeks from cassette tapes.

Re:Ooh (4, Funny)

Kazymyr (190114) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369872)

I have a prerelease copy, but can't comment on it. I got a "R Tape loading error" on day 10 and had to start over. Still loading.

Re:Ooh (5, Funny)

P3NIS_CLEAVER (860022) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369888)

I heard that 'Duke Nukem Forever' will be released exclusively for AmigaOS!

Re:Ooh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17369954)

Yeah... and the tragic part of it is yhat both of these were far superior to the most used OS... several years AFTER they were declared dead !

TOS (1)

ElephanTS (624421) | more than 7 years ago | (#17370436)

heh. And I'm still looking forward to the new version of TOS.

The Only Computer/OS That Made Me Want DOS (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17369116)

I remember my first job had an Amiga machine with some old bitmap tool that no one had taken the time to rewrite. My god what a piece of shit computer and OS. Now DOS was and forever will be a steaming pile of shit, but the Amiga is the only computer that ever made me thankful to get back DOS.

Just FUCKING DIE!

Amiga freaks
Dreamcast freaks
Xbox freaks

Isn't there some sort of space arc we can send all these miserable sods off to some 'better place'?

Grrr (1)

joshier (957448) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369132)

It just won't fucking die!

MOD PARENT DOWN (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17369136)

umm, it's almost 2007. no one needs it. get a life

Hmph (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17369138)

Fine.. fork it a few more times could you? I'm sure it's not quite dead yet; Right horse?

Oh Samwise.... (0, Offtopic)

ancient_kings (1000970) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369162)

won't you ever give up your quest?

He's dead, Jim. (5, Insightful)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369204)

I loved AmigaOS. I used it for probably a decade after it had completely stagnated at the top levels, while its huge crowd of shareware developers kept shovelling great software out to Aminet. But come on, folks: Amiga is dead. Not dying; dead. All of the technical elegance I appreciated for so long has now moved into other systems (KDE and its KIOslaves are far cooler than Amiga's "datatypes" ever hoped to be), and other than keeping an emulator available for the occasional retro-gaming jones, I just can't see a single reason for its continued existence.

I'm the last one to criticize people for spending their days working on projects that look insane to everyone else, but this brings me pretty close. Rest in peace, Amiga. You were beautiful at a time when no other computer was, but your era has long passed. Leave us with our wonderful memories, and sleep well.

Re:He's dead, Jim. (1)

maximthemagnificent (847709) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369310)

Alas poor Amiga, I knew him well!

her (3, Insightful)

Shawn is an Asshole (845769) | more than 7 years ago | (#17370074)

Amiga == feminine
Amigo == masculine

Funeral ceremonies were held today for the Amiga.. (4, Funny)

mmell (832646) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369524)

In attendance, her children: Agnus, Denise, Paula, Gary and Sid. There was a blit of a disturbance, but a copper quickly sorted the situation out.

I miss getting video toasted! Waaah!

Re:Funeral ceremonies were held today for the Amig (2, Informative)

Elevator_Inspector (971094) | more than 7 years ago | (#17370174)

Just going from memory I think Sid was a C64 chip and Paula actually handled the sound on the Amiga. Recovering Amiga addict with an A1200/060 in the closet to prove it. Anyone know where I can find a clean 3000 to put my Phase V Cybervision64 card into?

Yeah, I loved my old C=64 as well... (1)

mmell (832646) | more than 7 years ago | (#17370346)

Pure 6502 goodness, and raw 68000 power! Yeah!

I still have mine... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17370620)

and it's sitting under a desk, downstairs. Gonna put it, the 1802 monitor, and the 1501 hard drive back together at some point.

Re:Funeral ceremonies were held today for the Amig (1)

Tim C (15259) | more than 7 years ago | (#17370750)

I don't remember Gary being in the Amiga either; of course, it's been a good few years (more than I care to remember, to be honest) since my Amiga500 was put out to pasture, so I could be wrong.

Re:Funeral ceremonies were held today for the Amig (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17370934)

If I remember, Gary was the AGA replacement for Agnus (Or Fat Agnus if you're looking at the EGS chipset)

Re:Funeral ceremonies were held today for the Amig (1)

IL-CSIXTY4 (801087) | more than 7 years ago | (#17371318)

Gary is a GAte aRraY in the ECS chipset, used for I/O & glue logic.

Re:He's dead, Jim. (1)

gewalker (57809) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369582)

So, the real important question is whether or when will I be able to run version 4 on my favorite Amiga emulator? (Other than the even more obvious, what's the point?)

Re:He's dead, Jim. (2, Funny)

corpsmoderne (1007311) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369736)

If Amiga is dead, it can only mean one thing... P0WN3D BY ATARI!!!!!! W000000000000000T!!!!! errr, forget it...

Re:He's dead, Jim. (5, Funny)

Xugumad (39311) | more than 7 years ago | (#17370082)

Yeah... now anyone looking for an elegant, easy to use but over expensive hardware/software combination with a serious lack of 3rd party software now gets a Mac.

(Posted from my MacBook Pro)

I wish I was more excited.. (2, Interesting)

GreggBz (777373) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369206)

Well, whoopee! Also, in this press release:
Availability of PowerPC hardware suitable for operation with Amiga OS 4.0 will be announced by third parties early 2007.

Which, the folks at Amiga.org are guessing, means a system based on the SAM [sam440.com] board. Prototypes of this have been shown. But, knowing everything Amiga, I'll believe that when I see it. It would be nice, as it's a small simple motherboard that runs without the need for active cooling. It would make a unique and interesting web / internet / Amiga applications machine with a snappy OS.

I, myself have a nice PPC Amiga 1200, which I use occasionally for fun. It's a horrible over extended, upgraded collection of cables and add on cards though. We never got substantive replacement hardware, and we just kept expanding the old stuff. It will probably never see OS4 and I'll have to spend $1200 on a new system with the Eyetech board, or this SAM thing... maybe..

And lastly, yes we know it's basically orphaned and practically useless and modern replacements do things much much better and more cheaply, so I'll kindly ask all of you to save your breath, I don't care. It's just interesting how it won't die isn't it?

Re:I wish I was more excited.. (1)

xjerky (128399) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369266)

Is there any reason why they can't make it work on PowerPC-based Mac hardware? I'd almost hold onto my Powerbook just for that....

AmigaOS on PPC Mac (5, Informative)

IL-CSIXTY4 (801087) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369472)

The main obstacle to getting AmigaOS ported to anything other than the AmigaOne is Amiga, Inc's licensing program. They license out the right for a board to carry the Amiga name and run AmigaOS, by virtue of a ROM "dongle" that gets integrated into the motherboard. This means that anything running AmigaOS has to be specifically designed to run AmigaOS. According to messages on the AmigaWorld.net and Amiga.org forums, the company hasn't been very good at getting back to the few people who have emailed them asking about licenses. I can't see value they see in holding such tight reigns on something with such a small market.

Then, there's the matter of developer documentation. The folks at Hyperion who are coding the OS want solid documentation for the hardware they're targeting. They don't want to just look at the Linux Mac code and just trust it works the way it should.

But that second point is largely irrelevant, as they'll never get the chance to do it given the current situation with Amiga, Inc.

In related news... (2, Informative)

cmang (103268) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369220)

The next release of MorphOS [powerdeveloper.org] is planned to support hardware that's actually shipping [genesippc.com] . :)

Re:In related news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17369654)

Firstly, while technologically impressive MorphOS sounds like a big pain in the ass. From their site:

MorphOS has no installation utility for current and legacy applications.
Go to Aminet and download the Installer 43.3. Of course this is a standalone file that you can simply put manually into a strategic directory of your hard disk.

MorphOS has no text editor for modifying startup scripts and plain texts.
There are plenty of text editors on Aminet. You can go there, and search and download what you need. In particular you will also find some editors already ported and compiled in native PowerPC code for MorphOS.

MorphOS has no TCP/IP stack.
Well, go to Aminet and download MOSNet, which is a TCP/IP stack compiled in native PowerPC code, and created explicitly for MorphOS.

MorphOS has no mailer.
The two most diffused mailers for the Amiga are open source. You can download YAM or SimpleMail from SourceForge or their homepages. There are nightly builds created in native PowerPC code for MorphOS, too.

MorphOS has no browser.
The source code of AWeb, formerly a commercial browser, was donated by the author to the Amiga community at the beginning of the millennium. All the upgrades for this browser created by the current development team are available at the AWeb homepage, even in a native MorphOS version.

(Please note that all the previous applications are open source software - except the Installer 43.3 that is freely distributable -. Their use does not prejudice in any way the owner rights of MorphOS and the software packages written/distributed by independent developers and/or software houses for commercial purposes.)


and the most glaring pain in the ass:

MorphOS has a very minimal documentation.
Due to the API compatibility, the documentation of AmigaOS 3.1 covers 75% of all the possible issues. However, MorphOS is not a simple clone of AmigaOS: it already embodies a large number of enhancements, most of which are not immediately visible to the unaware user. Here the community has given again its help with the creation of Le livre du Pegasos (The Pegasos Book), that collects in a single book a huge set of very useful and important information concerning hardware, software, and configuration issues that it is important to know when someone uses the Pegasos/MorphOS pair.


Secondly, I strongly dislike Bush as well, but you're a fool to associate yourself with Ramsey Clark.

From Wikipedia:

On 18 March 2006, Clark attended the funeral of Slobodan Milosevi. He has declared: "History will prove Milosevi was right. Charges are just that, charges. The trial did not have facts." He also described Slobodan Milosevi and Saddam Hussein as "[b]oth commanders" who "were courageous enough to fight more powerful countries."


And who has he defended?

* Nazi concentration camp commandant Karl Linnas
        * Nazi War criminal Jack Reimer, charged in the killings of Jews in Warsaw.
        * The National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws Advisory Board during late 1970s and early 1980s
        * Branch Davidian leader David Koresh
        * Antiwar activist Father Philip Berrigan
        * Political figure Lyndon Larouche
        * American Indian prisoner Leonard Peltier
        * Crimes of America conference in Tehran in 1980
        * Liberian political figure Charles G. Taylor during his 1985 fight against extradition from the United States to Liberia
        * Elizaphan Ntakirutimana, a leader in the Rwandan genocide
        * PLO leaders in a lawsuit brought by the family of Leon Klinghoffer.
        * Camilo Mejia, a US soldier who deserted his post in March 2004 in protest against the US war against Iraq.
        * Radovan Karadzi, accused Yugoslav war criminal.
        * Slobodan Milosevi, former president of Yugoslavia, accused war criminal
        * Saddam Hussein, former president of Iraq and convicted war criminal
        * Lori Berenson


Just peachy.

Seriously. (2, Insightful)

urbanradar (1001140) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369232)

If people like working on this, great, let them. But even if it was great in its day, is *anyone* seriously fooling themselves AmigaOS is going to make a comeback of any sort ever again?

Re:Seriously. (1)

DavidNWelton (142216) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369762)

Your descendants will thank the AmigaOS team, when it is the only OS capable of running patched together computers that run the defenses keeping the mutants from the forbidden zone at bay. They will be glad that the Amiga team retreated to The Caverns where they continued to pass down the secrets of the OS from generation to generation, memorizing the entire sequence of bytes in the event of a hard drive failure.

Re:Seriously. (1)

LiquidCoooled (634315) | more than 7 years ago | (#17370096)

Are you saying the Amiga historians are the Rangers?

Re:Seriously. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17370286)

Please stop recycling my old Duke Nukem comments, thx.

The comedy continues (5, Insightful)

realmolo (574068) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369242)

So, it takes them how long to finally "finish" AmigaOS 4.0? And now that it's finished, the hardware it runs on is unavailable?

Just when you think the Amiga saga can't get any more absurd...

I fully expect them to announce that they're starting an x86 port, and it'll be ready in January of 2008. Or January of 2018, whichever comes later.

I had an Amiga back in the day. Loved it. Have no desire to use on ever again, though.

Re:The comedy continues (4, Funny)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369400)

I fully expect them to announce that they're starting an x86 port, and it'll be ready in January of 2008.

Spoken like someone who abandoned their Amiga before the bitter end and didn't stick around for the true lunacy. A real Amiga announcement would claim that the new DEC Alpha port would be available for sale in Two Weeks (tm).

Re:The comedy continues (1)

Cthefuture (665326) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369648)

Actually I thought there was an x86 version of AmigaOS 4 floating around. This was the demo/SDK you could boot up in Linux or Windows. Was this a different AmigaOS?

I have in fact been trying to get hold of the SDK for years but no luck (actually just the documentation would be nice). The whole VP code system seemed interesting even if not all that useful.

Re:The comedy continues (1)

rucs_hack (784150) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369806)

Mayhap you are correct. However the programmers involved will have gained enviable experience in systems coding, such as would be useful in VM creation, or console programming.

If it serves no more purpose then to advance the careers of the team involved, then it's done well.

It's all been downhill (2, Funny)

Reality Master 101 (179095) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369244)

I hear RT-11 [wikipedia.org] is about to make a comeback! Damn you, it was one of the most powerful operating systems ever created, and STILL does things that no modern machine can do! It can, it can, IT CAN! Damn ALL YOU HEATHENS TO HELL!!!

This sounds familiar ... (2, Insightful)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369256)

Let's see ... what other company has recently released an operating system for a hardware platform that doesn't quite exist yet?

Hardware is beside the point (5, Insightful)

fm6 (162816) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369272)

If you're going to create an OS that nobody will use, does it matter whether there's any hardware to run it on?

Re:Hardware is beside the point (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17369320)

If you're going to create an OS that nobody will use, does it matter whether there's any hardware to run it on?

Speak for yourself. I bet Duke Nukem Forever will run on it, and it's slated to be released before the end of the year.

Re:Hardware is beside the point (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17369506)

I think I have now achieved enlightenment. Thanks.

Fanboys (1)

Handlarn (911194) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369292)

Amiga users are certainly taking the concept of fanboyism to a whole new level.

Hell, I even had an Amiga and bashed Windows and MS-DOS back in the days, but seriously, Windows and the hardware available has evolved a lot since then and Amiga is still on square one. ScalaMM and Deluxe Paint were nice and all, but isn't it time to move on? Now you got an OS which is several years delayed without a computer to run it on. Why oh why?

Most appropriate hardware? easy (1)

marcello_dl (667940) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369318)

The playstation 3.

Programming for Amiga (5, Interesting)

robvangelder (472838) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369326)

I'm not certain that it was the Operating System that made Amiga fun, but it's hardware and community.

I participated in "the scene" where you got to advertise your warez group by posting a miniature presentation before the game loaded.
These were called "intros" - some of these were a very impressive collection of code, graphics, and sound.
I used to write the code behind many intros in my early teens for programming exercise and to support my group.

The scene also released and supported an open source (free source?) soundtracker player that became the de-facto music player format for Amiga. Soundtracker (and forks of) were widely available with a huge library of samples and mods (mods being the completed song). Any non-musician could load some sound samples and start banging qwerty to hear tunes.

The Amiga's architecture was a very good for the first-time-asm-coder. 680x0 is quite an easy assembler language and Amiga's hardware, particularly the graphics (and copper), was easy to write for. So, the rewards after the first hour of programming were there and learning curve low. It made you want to poke around and look for more effects - with a few Guru Meditations along the way.
I mean, 1985 and it had 3d graphic capabilities built into the hardware - standard.

Put together, Amiga produced some of the best eye-candy I've ever seen.

I really miss the Amiga scene. I believe it's gone for good. The majority of use have grown up - moved on.
I don't believe a new Operating System is going to revive the community - the community that "made" Amiga what I remember it as.

Re:Programming for Amiga (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17369658)

Amiga didn't have 3d hardware fyi, just lots of 2d hardware acceleration for blitting polygons after a normal 3d -> 2d projection.

Re:Programming for Amiga (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 7 years ago | (#17370684)

Although HAM mode was originally designed for a virtual reality system of some kind...
The 3D abilities of the Amiga were rather rudimentary, it could do flat shaded polygons well, but texture mapping was actually made more difficult by the way the Amiga dsplay system worked. However when the amiga was made, everyone played 2d games anyway.

Re:Programming for Amiga (4, Interesting)

Thumper_SVX (239525) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369812)

Wow, am I getting nostalgic reading this thread!

I would tend to agree with you here. I was also part of "The Scene" way back when. The community was built up around people who tended to take what the manufacturers said their hardware could and could not do, and attempt to prove them wrong. Some of the slickest bits of code I ever saw in my life were in 68000 on the Amiga and Atari ST. The former had the advantage of nice hardware, but I saw some awesome code on the latter trying to overcome its limitations and making it more like the Amiga in software. Truly wonderful times.

That community doesn't have a chance in the modern computing world. The code these days is too obfuscated from the hardware to really push it in the same way that you can with assembly. On the other hand though it's increasingly difficult to code anything impressive because of the wide arrange of hardware that's out there. You just can't write a demo or intro that'll run on everyone's machine without going through an API layer (operating system), and then you just can't push the hardware like you want to.

This is why when I grew up I got involved a lot with embedded systems. While you don't have the in-built audience that you got with "the scene", embedded shops are screaming out for talented coders who can whip out awesomely efficient code on a known hardware platform. Although the audience is smaller, you will get a bunch of embedded geeks looking at your code and saying "Cool!" when you've done something truly amazing within the limits of the hardware. Then you get to see your code in the marketplace making stuff really work... or in the ultimate example launched into space and doing unexpected but wonderful things on another planet. Now there's a reward that the scene couldn't match :D

Re:Programming for Amiga (1)

rmart (834426) | more than 7 years ago | (#17370740)

The demoscene DOES still exist, even on Amiga, Atari ST and so on. Just see sites like Pouet [pouet.net] and scene.org [scene.org] . The focus has obviously moved away a bit from pushing the hardware, instead creating very visually appealing productions.

I'm not dead yet (2, Interesting)

edwardpickman (965122) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369340)

Talk about beating a dead horse. I know there are still devoted fans out there but it would take a herculean effort to get the OS semi modern and even then it's pointless. What made it unique was the combination of OS and chipset. If they want to resurrect the spirit of Amiga they need to develope chips that had a similar approach to graphics intergration. Anything else is feeding off nostalga and is completely pointless. You might as well get excited because some one was bringing back DOS. There actually would be a reason for that. Not to the average user but it was far easier to program devices on DOS. There are motion control machines still running DOS. Although they have largely gone the way of the dinosaur there would be need for an updated DOS but without the hardware to go with Amiga is pointless. If they are simply adapting it to an AMD or P4 chip it'd make as much sense as putting a modern engine in a model T. One day you just have to accept it's dead and move on. I just wish one of the chip makers would team up with some one like a Linux developer and come up with a system that used the same approach. Could you imagine an OS with targeted graphios all on seperate cores? Even parts of the OS embeded into the chip architecture for processing graphics within the chip itself. There's no way a traditional approach to computer design could come close. The laws of physics would prevent it. Transferring data will always cost you speed so localizing functions will always be faster. Quantum computers may change that but I probably won't live to see that.

Re:I'm not dead yet (1)

couchslug (175151) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369406)

"You might as well get excited because some one was bringing back DOS."

http://www.freedos.org/ [freedos.org]

Re:I'm not dead yet (1)

tablebeast (827972) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369968)

" ...without the hardware to go with Amiga is pointless. If they are simply adapting it to an AMD or P4 chip it'd make as much sense as putting a modern engine in a model T."

Well, people do put modern engines in Model T's, have been since at least the late 1940's. They're called Hot Rods. I think it would be a more appropriate analogy to say its like putting a model T engine in a modern car, something only a nut would even attempt.

Worth it (1)

Fujisawa Sensei (207127) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369344)

Its worth it just to see all these guys whine about letting it die, or about how its already dead.

Long live the Amiga!

Re:Worth it (1)

Fogbank (470061) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369956)

I saw Elvis and Jimmy Hoffa in a supermarket yesterday.
They were giving away copies of the new AmigaOS.

Long live the Pelvis!

Next Up (1)

VonSkippy (892467) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369354)

Rotary Phone 2.0 baby!

Re:Next Up (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17370150)

Its called touch tone.

This is just pathetic! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17369402)

I switched from Amiga to DOS simply because the GUI was so fucking sluggish in CLI that I couldn't stand it.

The whole REASON I stopped using AmigaOS.. (3, Interesting)

Sloppy (14984) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369404)

..is that it was only available on limited hardware and wasn't being maintained. (Having software that is ten times faster than the competition isn't a real advantage if the hardware is twenty times slower.)

And the reason that happened, was because it wasn't Free.

AmigaOS 4 is truly following in the steps of its forefather. If the people in that project want to know how much marketshare AmigaOS 4 will have, they just have to look at the marketshare of AmigaOS 3.x.

As for me, I run software that I know will be maintained and updated. I don't have to take anyone's word for it; it requires no faith at all. And that's good, because I don't have any faith anymore: my Amiga experience killed it.

Re:The whole REASON I stopped using AmigaOS.. (1)

cybpunks3 (612218) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369694)

The soul of the Amiga was its chipset. Slow by modern standards, but still "cool" in the same way people still enjoy tinkering with the Atari 2600. Once you drop the chipset, all you are left with is an OS with no software support. You really have to concede that the legacy software is outclassed by modern equivalents. By hitching their wagons on PPC and taking so long they are now an entire processor family behind the times as Apple has thrown in the towel and gone Intel. The fact that Apple had to leverage Unix to bootstrap OSX should indicate how difficult it is to get a new OS off the ground. I don't see how any alternative OS can succeed unless it's built on top of a Linux or Unix kernel and can run at least some of those apps.

Re:The whole REASON I stopped using AmigaOS.. (2, Insightful)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 7 years ago | (#17370804)

I did the same... It wasn't just the OS tho:
Basic networking software on the Amiga cost money, a web browser, an ftp client, an irc client, even a telnet client cost money... Every other platform had these basic clients available for free. When i was first using the internet, i did so from an amiga, and very quickly got frustrated by the ridiculous pricing for the most trivial of programs.
And the attitude of a significant portion of the Amiga community when you pirated these programs... Many would shun you, claiming you were "destroying the amiga" and most of the networking software had backdoors that would be exploited to punish you for pirating these apps.
Piracy did not kill the amiga, piracy MADE the amiga, at least in europe... Most of the people who bought amigas for gaming did so because it was easy to copy games, people bought them for their kids so their kids could share games with their friends in school.
And then, when the amiga was on it's last legs, commodore bankrupt, users leaving in droves, rather than trying to encourage people to stay on the amiga, they make it so ridiculously expensive to stick with the amiga that it's cheaper to buy a windows or linux based pc.
Now the same thing happens with AmigaOS 4, artificially restricting what hardware it can run on with their proprietary rom-based dongle... Making it so ridiculously expensive to use that they will never attract new users, as the few remaining amiga users keep dwindling in numbers.

At last! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17369416)

An operating system that will give Vista a run for it's money... Balmer is no doubt shaking in his boots right now.

Cart before horse (1)

Tx (96709) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369422)

Releasing a new OS before the hardware is available is one of the most ass-backwards things in the entire ass-backwards history of the Amiga. And I think it's pretty shocking that they don't support the add-on PowerPC cards for classic Amiga hardware, since IIRC that's what they were developing on. I guess they want their new hardware to sell (if and when...), but you'd think an OS with so little to commend it in this day and age would want to pick up every possible scrap of userbase, no?

Re:Cart before horse (1)

GURU Meditation 8000 (790934) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369612)

oh, but they DO support the classic PowerPC addon cards for A1200 and A4000. I myself have a 4.0 prerelease
working on A1200 with BlizzardPPC and a Mediator 1200 SX. its a frankenstein of a system lash-up and I'd hoped
the standard new Amiga platform would have been for sale way before the 4.0 release.

My refrain... (1)

kabdib (81955) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369446)

My refrain from 15 years ago:

"Sell your Agima! Move out of your parent's house!"

seems even more apropos now.

Ahem. Of course, the 25+ year old vintage microcomputers that I'm currently mucking around with (restoring digital tape drives, making MP3s of old audio cassettes, cleaning the muck off 1Kx1 RAM chips...) are not a waste of time, because . . . well, because. :-)

Re:My refrain... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17369928)

My refrain from 15 years ago:

"Sell your Agima! Move out of your parent's house!"

seems even more apropos now.

Ahem. Of course, the 25+ year old vintage microcomputers that I'm currently mucking around with (restoring digital tape drives, making MP3s of old audio cassettes, cleaning the muck off 1Kx1 RAM chips...) are not a waste of time, because . . . well, because. :-)


That's only because you worked for Atari. Do NOT make me sick the forehead bulging job interviewer on you again! ;)

Re:My refrain... (2, Informative)

kabdib (81955) | more than 7 years ago | (#17370250)

Of *course* I worked for Atari (on the ST . . . and other things). We had the Flying Tramiel Brothers Invasion Corps and Marching Band and an OS scraped together over a weekend by Digital Research. The Amiga guys had multitasking, blitters, bouncing beachballs, compilers that didn't suck . . . and Kiki Stockhammer. My living God, we were jealous.

Ah, but who went out of business first? [Actually, I couldn't tell you. Don't bother me with facts; my false sense of superiority works best in a vacuum]

Funny how later I ended up working for one of the guys who shipped the first Mac. Silly Valley is small, *way* small: Don't piss anyone off unless it's really worth it. And when you ship, make sure you have a beachball.

hold everything (1)

mgabrys_sf (951552) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369468)

Does this mean Duke Nuke-em is going to come out? Holy crap - someone borrow some ice from hell.

MOD PARENT UP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17370570)

when is Duke Nukesem coming out

Hwardware Vaporware (1)

Nom du Keyboard (633989) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369498)

Hardware vaporware. That's a new concept for an Operating System.

CHRP (1)

mr-mafoo (891779) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369592)

Im an OS junkie. Im the guy that installs AthenaOS on his computer for no good reason. I even had NeXT Step v3 running for a while. And I've done the rhapsody and most subsequent builds. I must have installed about 5 diffrent linux distros on my 266mhzPowerbook G3 - wiping the HD each time to set up the sugested swap/usr/root partitions. I even did A/UX and OS/2.

I was excited 5 years ago about the MorphOS/AmigaOS (henceforth called AO/S) when the CHRP (Common Hardware Reference Platform) was promising cheap PPC boards with Cheap PC connectivity compared to the macs available at the time.

It has to be said, when you compare A/OS to vista or any incarnation of OSX it comes up lacking. I've used workbench under UAE for some time for random OS Porn, and the new version actually looks worse than 1994 A/OS.

Unless they can find a reason why A/OS is better - and it was for multitasking/threading a while back - its not really worth perusing the project further, unless for past nostalgia, which is a perfectly valid reason from a hobbyists' perspective.

BeOS had the multimedia aspect as its selling point, and then it upped and went to the embedded side, which put the final nail in the coffin. Amiga OS doesn't see to have any funky buzzwords associated with it. Its all about buzzwords in this marketing ; consumer based society.

Amiga is not (yet) vaporware (5, Interesting)

guruevi (827432) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369604)

A lot of /.-ers complaining that Amiga is vaporware. Not yet. Amiga is still used in existing installations especially in the music/theater world for DMX/MIDI and other computer-controlled light- and music sets as well as real-time effects on lights, video and music. The fact that most controllers are hardware based and don't need any processing by the CPU is a great thing as compared to the latency even top-end video- and soundcards on PCI produce. It has a great open-source fan base and it is (still) stable as hell in all the applications I've seen and especially in real-time performances not really a task for (Windows) PC computers.

Re:Amiga is not (yet) vaporware (1)

banerjek (1040522) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369898)

A lot of /.-ers complaining that Amiga is vaporware. Not yet. Amiga is still used in existing installations especially in the music/theater world for DMX/MIDI and other computer-controlled light- and music sets as well as real-time effects on lights, video and music.
There are also people who still use all kinds of old hardware. Just a couple years ago, we migrated one of our services off a 20 year old VAX machine. Having said that, I wouldn't characterize the longevity of that system as being based on a great OS and great hardware.


Instead of the Amiga, they need to revive the Vic-20, the most powerful computer in the world [vic20.net] . This wonder computer was produced by the same company a full 5 years before the Amiga. Come to think of it, I knew a lot more people that worked with the Vics and C64s than the Amigas even though everyone liked them.


Then again,

Re:Amiga is not (yet) vaporware (1)

coaxial (28297) | more than 7 years ago | (#17370482)

Yes, yes. We all love Video Toaster.

I know they used to use it back in 1993 or 1994 at the Riverport Amphetheater (Now UMB Bank Pavillion), but I haven't seen it used there or anywhere since then.

Re:Amiga is not (yet) vaporware (1)

dfn_deux (535506) | more than 7 years ago | (#17371064)

Too bad that the software release they've announced won't run on any of that equipment and the hardware is only vapor...

I dunno that just seems.. stupid (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17369610)

They must want this project to either fail or never pay for itself with tactics like lets make an OS and then lets figure out how to make actually sell it afterward.

Amiga back now that dual CPU's have finally caught up to the original Amiga, but WTF is the point. How far behind is the platform at this point. They should have just coded a new OS to run on modern hardware from the ground up and told Amiga hold outs to switch.

What we need is Amiga for the ps3. Hey maybe I'll go buy an Amiga off ebay so I can try out their new OS.

In the age that is spawning WebOS's Amiga remakes AmigaOS for a 100% legacy hardware platform. Man I hope they made their core exceptionally portable. Do you think they will have .net for AmigaOS ? heh

Your moment of Zen (5, Funny)

Rob T Firefly (844560) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369660)

If an operating system is released, and there's no hardware around to run it, does it make a sound?

Software Failure. Press less mouse button to conti (1)

Tumbleweed (3706) | more than 7 years ago | (#17369942)

Guru Meditation. Amiga not found.

RAM Disk (1)

MtlDty (711230) | more than 7 years ago | (#17370084)

One of the features I most missed when I migrated (perhaps downsized) from my beloved Amiga to PCs / Microsoft Windows was the RAM disk. http://www.amigaos4.com/index.php%3Foption=content &task=view&id=9&Itemid=0&limit=1&limitstart=2.html [amigaos4.com] How come Microsoft didnt copy this feature I wonder? The ability to temporarily store files to ram (rather than having some temporary disk space that you had to remember to delete) was a great feature for me that I really missed in the early days of my PC use. For example, to copy files from one floppy disk to another in the Amiga OS you would use the ram disk, but on DOS / Windows you had to create a temp folder on hard disc, copy stuff back and forth then delete it all.

Re:RAM Disk (1)

vadim_t (324782) | more than 7 years ago | (#17370166)

Microsoft had it in the form of RAMDRIVE.SYS in MS-DOS. Not sure how support of that was in DOS.

The Linux kernel supports it easily:
mount tmpfs -t tmpfs /mnt/tempdisk -o size=32m

The Linux version is dynamic, and unused space on the disk isn't wasted.

Re:RAM Disk (1)

AnyoneEB (574727) | more than 7 years ago | (#17370296)

DOS had RAM disk support. I usually had one enabled whenever I was using DOS. If I remember correctly, the command was ramdisk. I believe that still worked in Windows 9x, although I do not remember. The lack of built-in RAM disk support in Windows NT certainly surprised me too. Maybe someone will reply to this post and tell me I just have not found it, but Google comes up with a lot of third party solutions, so I doubt it. Of course, on Linux you can always just use tmpfs [wikipedia.org] , although tmpfs is not like a normal RAM disk in that when it runs out of space instead of paging it simply starts deleting files. According to the wiki page, ramfs is the Linux filesystem for a normal ram disk.

Re:RAM Disk (1)

Galactic Dominator (944134) | more than 7 years ago | (#17370332)

device=a:\dos\ramdisk.sys /kbtouse=xxx #Up to 32000KB

Re:RAM Disk (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17370360)

These is a single size ie non-explanding Ram: Disk available from Microsoft, sorry, can't remember what't its call or a link off hand, as I'm writting this from my Amiga OS4 computer, not the Windows 2000 one.

I think there's a couple of other third part programs that does something similar, I tried the MS one, didn't work half as well as the old Amiga version, which wasn't a great suprise.

And what's with you lot of big Bullies picking on a small defenceless little minoity OS, it works well as OS, sure some of the software software browers for example are a little old fashioned, you could say the same thing about the Linux's Office Applications not being as good as those available to MacOS X or Windows.

Atari ST (2, Interesting)

slapout (93640) | more than 7 years ago | (#17370210)

Not to restart the Amiga/Atari ST wars, but....

It's not as nice as the Amiga stuff, but the Atari Running On Any Machine (aranym) project is continuing work here: aranym.org

Revive the Old Amiga? (1)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 7 years ago | (#17370224)

Reading this thread, it seems to me that few people are waiting for this new Amiga OS or the new Amiga hardware, but the old OS and hardware were lots of fun to hack around with, and reasonably easy to get started with. I wonder how well a revival of the old platform would fare. Perhaps an open source re-implementation of the old Amiga-OS? It seems we know how the hardware works, and lots of people have hacked it. I'm not one of them, though, so all this is just my uninformed observations.

Re:Revive the Old Amiga? (3, Informative)

vidarh (309115) | more than 7 years ago | (#17370588)

There is already an open source attempt at reimplementing AmigaOS sort of: AROS [sourceforge.net] . It's been around for years.

Re:Revive the Old Amiga? (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 7 years ago | (#17370818)

There is an open source clone of AmigaOS, called AROS...
Infact, the "official" amigaos actually uses some components from AROS.

Amiga: ALIVE and KICKING! (1)

UED++ (1043486) | more than 7 years ago | (#17370688)

I've still got my Amiga 500+ (Modded) and you're never gonna take it from me, EVER!!

Give them a friggin' chance (1)

suv4x4 (956391) | more than 7 years ago | (#17371010)

Can I ask the Slashdotters to stop with the superficial bitter remarks of how Amiga is dead and so they better not try: give them a friggin' chance.

As people who are more involved in the matter at hand, they probably know better ways to capitalize their efforts than try to cater to Slashdot readers that had Amigas who put their efforts down before they've even seen the thing.

Competition is nice: there's place for Amiga. Why? Well there's place for a hundred Linux distros some of which are majorly incompatible with each other, for bsd, unix, windows, why not another one?

If it has practical applications it'll be used, never mind what you geniuses have to say about it.

There's only one thing that left bad taste in my mouth... They entire AmigaOS site is splattered with the infamous 3D demo ball... Understandable, but still, let's hope they don't rely on that ball saving the day ;)

Er, 4.0 was released in 2004 (1)

Morky (577776) | more than 7 years ago | (#17371084)

I RTFA and it said this was the final update to Amiga 4.0, originally release in May 2004.

how much ram to run it now? (2, Interesting)

blackest_k (761565) | more than 7 years ago | (#17371178)

The Original Amiga OS managed without a swopfile with 512k of ram shared with the graphics hardware and a rom of 512k

My A1200 had 2 meg chip and 8 meg fast ram and my original harddrive loaded with applications was 52 Meg and I got on the internet with that.
just compare those specifications with what you are using right now.

I have to wonder how much overhead is in version 4. Has it grown as bloated as windows, linux or osx.how would it be if it was ported to x86 hardware (and having the complete source code its not impossible). Probably it's ideally suited for embedded systems such as satellite and cable boxes.

When you look at what vista does encrypting and decrypting data as it moves it between the subsystems,
Amiga OS would be giving a much bigger bang for the buck.

What actually is an OS for and how much of your processor time should be spent running the Os shouldnt it be running your programs?

Isn't it embarrassing that we need so much more power today to do, what exactly? I read my email went to websites chatted with friends all in 10meg of ram doesnt seem possible does it?

It makes me wonder if the One laptop per child project shouldnt be using something as compact as Amiga OS the point of the project being to bring information to the children and on the original amiga web pages worked RTF documents worked. even spread sheets were useable in amigaos.

The Amiga was fantastic for its time the custom chips which made it all work ultimately limited its progression
I don't quite understand why people feel so smug when current hardware and operating systems are so inefficient,
but then again I liked beos too.

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