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PayPal Launches Virtual Debit Card

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 7 years ago | from the good-idea-bad-testbed dept.

212

IpSo_ writes "You can now use PayPal via a Virtual Debit Card when making online purchases anywhere MasterCard is accepted. Basically it generates a virtual card number each time you make a transaction online so you don't have to use your personal debit or credit card number. Will people be more comfortable making online purchases with this, or will it flop because its too much of an inconvenience?"

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Citibank has had this for years (3, Interesting)

TooMuchToDo (882796) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379338)

Citibank says, "Been there, done that."

Re:So has MBNA (1)

jbtule (565639) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379362)

And thus it's been added to Bank of America credit cards

My real experience in England (-1, Troll)

TrisexualPuppy (976893) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380270)

And thus it's been added to Bank of America credit cards
Having worked in the UK for Barclay's for thirty years, I know a bit about the banking industries. It's not all as much about "convenience" as it is easiness. If something takes five minutes to do but just involves a bunch of clicking, it typically doesn't bother your pigeon account holder. Just as long as he gets his spending money fairly quickly.

We performed a study on customers, varying the waiting period in various transactions for receiving their money. For most online-based purchases, users didn't mind waiting up to thirty minutes. We attributed this to either indifference or anticipation that having money was "just around the corner." This resulted in flexibility for services that we could provide. We even considered adding a PayPal-like variant to our services portfolio, but we were afraid that this could be a fluke; we bailed out.

I believe that with PayPal being so deeply-rooted in the online finance business (read, PayPal is NOT a bank), this little venture will take off like a Saturn V rocket with a barrage of strapon scramjets.

Re:My real experience in England (2, Funny)

Sqwubbsy (723014) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380480)

this little venture will take off like a Saturn V rocket with a barrage of strapon scramjets.

I personally support any paradigm that warrants an analogy with 'strapons'.

MOD PARENT UP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17380644)

haha, parent said 'strapon'

American Express as well (1)

sodre (453685) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379390)

It stopped doing it because it flopped.

Re:Citibank has had this for years (4, Interesting)

prof_peabody (741865) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379398)

I don't trust paypal one bit and would be more inclined to get a citibank account to do this. Every person I know who has had a bad transaction has had their account frozen... Terrible customer support also.

Re:Citibank has had this for years (2, Informative)

chimpo13 (471212) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379594)

Google Pay is way nicer than Pay Pal, only eBay recognizes that, and won't let you use Google Pay on eBay. They're not charging a fee until Jan 2008.

Just don't try to use Google to register a domain name. They haven't worked out the details with GoDaddy and the domain I bought as an Xmas present for a friend of mine is in limbo. GoDaddy says it's a Google problem and there's no way me or any of the supervisors at GoDaddy can get in touch with anyone at Google. Argh.

No kidding. (4, Insightful)

Valdrax (32670) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380324)

Yeah, I can see myself signing up to give Paypal access to my credit cards or bank accounts just for the privilege of keeping my credit card number away from untrustworthy, unscrupulous merchants who are out to steal my mon....

Wait a minute. Oh-ho-ho! Nice try, Paypal! You almost got me there. Whew!

Re: But it doesn't always work well (3, Interesting)

AnaemicVampire (970295) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380446)

Citibank and HSBC both have had this system for a while.

I've stopped using it though after a rather unpleasant incident where the online vendor (ETS) did not perform the transaction immediately, but instead waited for 2 working days to debit the amount. The one time card is not meant to last for that period of time (quite obviously, otherwise there would be little safety). The transaction was denied and I was charged an additional 20$. The nice folks at ETS refused to allow another GRE registration till I paid up the extra fee.

I'll stick to the normal credit card , particularly when the purchases are valuable.

Re:Citibank has had this for years (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17380458)

"I don't trust paypal one bit and would be more inclined to get a citibank account to do this."

I don't trust either of them. Banks are in bed with companies like paypal.

Re:Citibank has had this for years (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381028)

I really don't know anybody that this has happened to. I've had several hundred transactions, I think 300+ unique buyers and never had a problem.

So has Paypal (2, Insightful)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379610)

They took it away for a time, but apparently now it's back. The only difference I can see between the old Virtual Debit Card and the new one is the random account number generator.

Re:Citibank has had this for years (1)

KermodeBear (738243) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379692)

I *always* use this when making online purchases. I never use my 'real' credit card number. Yes, it is a little inconvenient to log into another web site, navigate to a few pages, generate a number, and type it into the fields (it is not selectable for copy/paste, being a flash app), but I go through it because, to me, the extra steps are worth the trouble. It doesn't cost me any extra money and it helps reduce fraud, which is good for everyone involved.

Too bad CitiBank was bought out by Bank of America. When that happened, for a while the website didn't work at all - which meant I wasn't able to pay my bills online (and customer service wouldn't do squat to help me out, since my information somehow disappeared during the migration); now they have resorted to some lame iframing around the original site so they can brand it with BoA's logo.

At least it works again. I'm considering leaving BoA after this mess, but as an IT guy myself, I know that feces happens so I'm rather forgiving. For now. We'll see what happens later down the road.

Re:Citibank has had this for years (2, Informative)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379818)

Too bad CitiBank was bought out by Bank of America. When that happened, for a while the website didn't work at all - which meant I wasn't able to pay my bills online (and customer service wouldn't do squat to help me out, since my information somehow disappeared during the migration); now they have resorted to some lame iframing around the original site so they can brand it with BoA's logo.

I think you're confusing Citibank [wikipedia.org] with MBNA [wikipedia.org] . I agree that the MBNA/BoA merger was less than stellar. But that's par for the course with BoA as they've always been the first to drop the ball. (IMHO) Citibank will be bought out by Bank of America shortly after the reanimated corpse of Hitler resumes a successful Blitzkrieg against Europe. (i.e. Not gonna happen)

Re:Citibank has had this for years (1)

markov_chain (202465) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379838)

Citibank.com? I don't see any mention of BoA there.

Re:Citibank has had this for years (1)

Nanidin (729400) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379776)

Yep - you can do it all online or download an app that does the same thing. It just generates card numbers with your name, address, etc. And it's free. For Visa or Mastercard or whatever else Citi issues.

Re:Citibank has had this for years (3, Interesting)

no-body (127863) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379910)

Citibank says, "Been there, done that."

And Paypal said after using up 16 virtual Citi numbers:
YOUR ACCOUNT HAS BEEN LIMITED


- the reference number given in the reason did not reveal a case
- emails to support did not solve the issue
- talking to support (yes, it is possible at times) did not solve the issue

Another account needed to be created to use PayPal for business purpose


After filling out a ridiculouly long survey-like questionaire for this case and mentioning that they would have heard from my attorney would there be any funds on the account, it came to their attention that there may be something wrong and - yes you can now use an unlimited number of credit card numbers...

No, thank you very much, Pay Pal!

Re:Citibank has had this for years (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17380006)

Nice...more ways to max out your credit cards


Denis The SQL Menace
http://sqlservercode.blogspot.com/ [blogspot.com]

Re:Citibank has had this for years (1)

HeroreV (869368) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380780)

PayPal can say the same thing, because they've been doing this for years! I read the linked FAQ to see what the deal with that was, and the last question says the "Virtual Debit Bar" has been discontinued due to the new "Virtual Debit Card". I don't know what all they're changing, but basically similar service has been around for quite a while.

PAYPAL IS TEH NEW WORLD ORDER (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17379344)

HAPPY NEW YEAR

Discover have been generating numbers for years... (5, Informative)

mdaitc (619734) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379358)

Discover Card have been generating numbers for years...

there's the stanadlone App, or the web-based version - the numbers are one-time use, and can be used anywhere - on or off the net.

why is the rest of the world not keeping up?

Re:Discover have been generating numbers for years (4, Interesting)

garcia (6573) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379508)

why is the rest of the world not keeping up?

Because I have very little use for one of these? My credit card already protects me from fraudulent charges and I'm not worried in the least if someone uses it two states away for gas. If Chase makes me call them when I'm going outside of my "home area" so they don't shut me off, then I'm not concerned if someone steals the card number after I make a purchase online at Newegg.

If someone uses the card locally, big deal. I call Chase and tell them that the card was stolen and the charge wasn't mine. Not many questions asked.

For *most* people, they just aren't paranoid enough to use a one time number for their purchases.

Re:Discover have been generating numbers for years (1)

Lord Kano (13027) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380038)

There's a huge difference between a credit card and a debit card. A debit card transaction affects the balance of your bank (or paypal) account. If there's a fraudulent charge, that money is gone while it's investigated. Eventually you'll get it back, but what if the fraud causes your rent or mortgage check to bounce?

This happened to me once, it unleashed a cascade of bounced check fees. I got it all straightened out eventually, but I would much rather had taken 5 minutes to get a one time card number instead of the several hours it took to fix the mess that was made of my accounts.

LK

Re:Discover have been generating numbers for years (4, Insightful)

garcia (6573) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380076)

There's a huge difference between a credit card and a debit card. A debit card transaction affects the balance of your bank (or paypal) account.

You should *never* use a debit card *anywhere*. Why you might ask? "But they are so popular! Everyone is doing it!"

Just wait until a drunken bartender, rushed register clerk, or malicious waitress adds an extra digit to your transaction and you're suddenly bouncing checks or being charged fees for your overdraft protection.

Re:Discover have been generating numbers for years (1)

Lost Engineer (459920) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380142)

Your points are right on, and that scares me as someone who uses one every day. What I like about my debit card is that all my transactions appear immediately online. Seriously, I can refresh the page immediately after making an online transaction and it's there. Also, I don't have to worry about paying the bill.

Does anyone know of a credit card with smart and fast online access and excellent fraud protection? Automatic bill pay would be nice too, but then it might be similar to a debit card.

Re:Discover have been generating numbers for years (1)

garcia (6573) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380182)

What I like about my debit card is that all my transactions appear immediately online.

Except for gas purchases made at the pump -- $1 anyone? But yes, that is a convenient thing about them but even if they appear there as "pending" it could have already hit your account and overdrawn it even if it hasn't hit the actual account (we have experienced that and now have overdraft protection to stop that from happening again for the reasons I listed above).

Re:Discover have been generating numbers for years (1)

gallwapa (909389) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380196)

As someone who loves debit for the same reason of being able to see the results immediately...I was extremely pissed when rentacoder tried authorizing a $200 payment 4 times instead of once and my rent check bounced, among other $1-2 transactions causing in excess $200 in overdraft charges.

Re:Discover have been generating numbers for years (1)

Sancho (17056) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380386)

That /must/ be a bank thing. My debit transactions can still take a day to show online. I'll see the total amount I have available drop, but it may be 24 hours before I see where the transaction was made.

I imagine there are some banks out there which can do the same for a credit card.

Re:Discover have been generating numbers for years (1)

ArsonSmith (13997) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380622)

I had this happen with my old Mortgage company. Double charged my debit card on the first month after a refinance.

I called them and they said it would be a 1-3 month investigation and they'd return the money. I said screw that, called my bank and had the money back in my account in less than an hour. Explained to the teller on the phone what happened she saw the two identical charages and reversed one. I never heard anything back from that. That was about 3 years ago and I got out of that mortgage company.

Re:Discover have been generating numbers for years (1)

Lost Engineer (459920) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380252)

Oh yeah. I believe my debit card is maxed at $400 a day. I know I was turned down when I tried to buy an Xbox 360 on it. So, as long as I check my balance often, I shouldn't be bouncing rent checks. How about yours?

Re:Discover have been generating numbers for years (1)

garcia (6573) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380368)

Daily max for my debit card is $3000.

Re:Discover have been generating numbers for years (1)

Threni (635302) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380926)

> Just wait until a drunken bartender, rushed register clerk, or malicious waitress adds an extra
> digit to your transaction and you're suddenly bouncing checks or being charged fees for your
> overdraft protection.

In the UK you have to sign the receipt, or enter your pin on a display with the amount clearly showing.

Re:Discover have been generating numbers for years (2, Informative)

pushf popf (741049) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380122)

why is the rest of the world not keeping up? Because I have very little use for one of these? My credit card already protects me from fraudulent charges and I'm not worried in the least if someone uses it two states away for gas. If Chase makes me call them when I'm going outside of my "home area" so they don't shut me off, then I'm not concerned if someone steals the card number after I make a purchase online at Newegg. If someone uses the card locally, big deal. I call Chase and tell them that the card was stolen and the charge wasn't mine. Not many questions asked. For *most* people, they just aren't paranoid enough to use a one time number for their purchases.

I wouldn't leave home wihout it (through B of A) When I pay for something online with a virtual CC, I can turn it off at any time. So when it comes time to cancel a service that's been billing me for a while, I first turn off the credit card number, then cancel the service.

They can go pound salt if they want any "early termination fees", or plan on charging me for another six months due to "billing problems"

You can't do that with a real CC number.

Re:Discover have been generating numbers for years (1)

marcello_dl (667940) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380792)

I agree: better not to leave credit card numbers around, checking your bills becomes easier and you save lots of time and hassles. Using virtual cards is longer, but it's well spent for increased safety.

I always boot from live cd before doing any banking online btw.

Re:Discover have been generating numbers for years (1)

sideswipe76 (689578) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380706)

Not the point. Sure, you're protected from fraud, but then if fraud is discovered they have to close the account which is a pain in the ass if you have recurring payments or pending payments. One-shot numbers prevent the hassle of having to essential switch to a whole new account.

Obligitory Futurama quote (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17379650)

Fry: "Do you take Visa?"
Clerk: "Visa hasn't existed for five hundred years."
Fry: "American Express?"
Clerk: "Six hundred years."
Fry: "Discover Card?"
Clerk: "Hmm... sorry, we don't take Discover."

Re:Obligitory Futurama quote (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17380542)

Ya know, that cheeses me off. That means somehow Fry got an AmEx.

*I* can't even get a freakin AmEx (any type) and I'm much better off than Fry...

This is a GREAT idea. (5, Insightful)

Twixter (662877) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379374)

A lot of people will use it for two reasons:

2.) Online Buying Clarity: You'll be able to view all charges you make on the internet individually and not have it mixed in with your regular credit card bill.

1.) Privacy: You can use a Credit Card online with it it showing up on your Credit Card Bill. It will be BIG in the online porn world.

Re:This is a GREAT idea. (5, Funny)

frostyboy (221222) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379434)

Well, it'll still show up on some bill (whatever account you have your paypal linked to), just as a "paypal" transaction and not as a "ccbill" or "paycom" or whatever porn-site cc processor the site uses. If you want real privacy, you would have to go to the mall and buy one of those visa gift-cards with cash. Totally untraceable and you can "assign" any address/name info to them for online merchant use. (Note: Of course I've never actually done this, but hear about it all the time from others.)

Re:This is a GREAT idea. (1)

Rob T Firefly (844560) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379574)

It will be BIG in the online porn world.
Didn't Paypal have some sort of rule against funding pr0n? I seem to remember that being the reason the Jennicam girl gave for shutting her site down way back whenever.

Re:This is a GREAT idea. (3, Informative)

ShaunC (203807) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379652)

You can't use your PayPal account directly to subscribe to (or receive funds for) adult websites, but your PayPal debit card is just a regular Mastercard, as far as purchases go.

This is a new idea? (1)

frostyboy (221222) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379384)

Doesn't every other major credit card bank do this already? I know my AMEX, Discover and Citibank cards already let you go online and generate a one-time-use number. It's handy not only for security purposes, but in case I don't have my wallet with me and need to buy something online. I just have to log into the website and can immediately get a usable number for the purchase.

Re:This is a new idea? (1)

CPE1704TKS (995414) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379578)

Not AMEX. They stopped doing this a few years ago. I know because I was a heavy user of this and actually loved it, but I guess it wasn't very popular.

Re:This is a new idea? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17380408)

How do you not have your CC numbers memorized? After about 5 purchases, I find that the number and the CV code are pretty much engrained for good.

"Article" is a pop-up window (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17379396)

The editors really don't look at this stuff, do they?

The link goes to the contents of a pop-up window displaying a FAQ that's intended for the BETA USERS of this service.

"Launched" isn't the word that should be used for the current state.

Re:"Article" is a pop-up window (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381122)

I don't understand what is new about this program, I used a PayPal virtual card very early this year. At least it was something like a one-use number for merchants that don't directly accept PayPal.

It's been around for years (2, Interesting)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379402)

Smile did/do it.

Credit Card companies have had this for years. (1)

ninja_assault_kitten (883141) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379426)

Just call your CC company and ask for a set of disposable CC #s. They're single use for online purchases.

Paypal: We Suck Harder (4, Insightful)

Tackhead (54550) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379436)

> The Card Is Virtual - The Security Is Very Real

Any time someone claims "the security is very real", the bogometer enters the red.

> I missed the demo when I downloaded the PayPal Virtual Debit Card. How can I see it again?

"Downloaded"? You mean this is an application? Bogometer pegged. Spyware sensor into the red.

> How do I use PayPal Virtual Debit Card?
>
> When you are ready to make a purchase on a website that accepts MasterCard, a notifier appears asking if you'd like to pay with PayPal Virtual Debit Card. You can click on the notifier to use PayPal Virtual Debit Card, and you can also always access PayPal Virtual Debit Card from the icons located on your browser's toolbar and system task tray.

Ah, it's not just a separate application, it's an (IE-only, presumably) Browser Helper Object and/or background service. Not only is the bogometer needle is bent, but the spyware sensor is on fire, and I'm reaching for my wallet, where my small fistful of weathered Federal Reserve Notes is looking mighty comfortable right about now.

Even by PayPal's standards, this is looking like a galactic-central-black-hole-through-buckytubes pile of suck.

Re:Paypal: We Suck Harder (1)

Rob T Firefly (844560) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379622)

a galactic-central-black-hole-through-buckytubes pile of suck.
Best. Description. Ever.

GCBHTBTPOS (1)

bagofbeans (567926) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381076)

Firefly-san, you may be right...

Re:Paypal: We Suck Harder (1)

Myself (57572) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379626)

Heh. I was thinking "It might not suck if they bundle a bugmenot-plugin-like browser extension that automatically generates and fills in the number for you when you tell it to", but that would obviously only be a good idea if it were optional.

You've hit the nail on the head here. The more I learn about PayPal, the less I like them, but the alternatives aren't compelling either. Damn.

Re:Paypal: We Suck Harder (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17380518)

How about the 'beta' release of a program that uses very real(tm) money?

Pay-Pal already did this... (1)

eriklou (1027240) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379544)

This is not new, they have done it for a long time. Granted this is four+ years ago, they might have pulled it then just now reinstated it. Who knows, I don't like Pay-Pal enough to care.

Re:Pay-Pal already did this... (1)

eriklou (1027240) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380264)

Ok, so back when I used it all they did was pop up a window with a temporary Master Card #/Exp date. Nothing like the install stuff on your computer like it appears to be now. Reading the FAQ's is scary. We all know how awesome IE is security wise, then on top of that add the credit card info from Pay-Pal... Can this flop fast enough to actually be good?

It'll flop, but for different reasons (2, Insightful)

slughead (592713) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379562)

will it flop because its too much of an inconvenience?

It'll flop because paypal is the worst 'bank' to have to deal with. They have poor customer service, the fees are outrageous, phishing is out of control, and the Bank of America already has something like this.

Ever get accused of not delivering something on E-Bay? It works out pretty well because paypal will just automatically steal the money out of your account, or send debt collection on your ass if you don't have the balance.

This all happens before they even talk to you. This is why I use neither E-bay nor paypal.

Re:It'll flop, but for different reasons (1)

martok (7123) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379918)

I'm not a big fan of this one myself. Mainly because the funds are withdrawn from Paypal balance or chequing account. Paypal gets their 2%-3.5% from the merchant and I don't see any of that. With a regular credit card, I can get 1% cashback on the transaction as well as 30 days interest free before I actually have to pay. These vurtual cards unless offered directly by the card issuer (I believe Amex does this) don't offer the same consumer benefits.

Besides, if by chance an evil website logs my cc number and distributes it through all the underground channels, I'm not liable in any case so where's the advantage?

accountability (4, Insightful)

Speare (84249) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379582)

How about asking, "Will it finally force PayPal to follow US Federal Law regarding financial institutions, or will it continue to act as with capricious disregard for facts and evidence when there's a payment dispute?"

Does it work with Allofmp3.com? (1)

jaymzter (452402) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379584)

If not, why are they being subservient to the RIAA?

Old news (1)

jesboat (64736) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379592)

As others have pointed out, many companies have been offering this for a while.

That list includes PayPal: back before eBay bought PayPal (at least four years ago), PayPal had a directory of shops. They had a feature where, if you added a credit card to your account, it'd let you browse the web with a frame at the top of the window (IIRC) with a virtual Visa/MasterCard number which you could use to buy things.

Re:Old news (1)

241comp (535228) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379672)

And you could still do this (they never disabled this feature) as long as you knew what URL to go to. I've been using it for years.

If only Paypal would allow the same (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17379742)

Really strange for Paypal to offer their own virtual card number and call it a feature, when they themselves don't support the use of virtual credit card numbers themselves.

Make "too many" credit card changes to your Paypal account and you'll see it locked. You become a special member when each future credit card has to be approved before use. By the way, they also charge for this feature. Sure they chargeback the fee when you make a purchase, but why do this to begin with ?

Re:Old news (1)

MykeBNY (303290) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380070)

I was looking for a comment that pointed that out. I used this feature once and forgot about it, but went looking for it later and couldn't find it.

new paying systems (1)

dheera (1003686) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379668)

i don't understand the point of these systems. on a related note, does anyone understand BillMeLater? doesn't it just sound like a credit card on top of a credit card and another way to lose your money if someone ID-thefts you?

what's wrong with the bank's debit card (if you want it) and a credit card of your choice?

Well... this sucks. (4, Insightful)

mark-t (151149) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379694)

From their QA about the virtual debit card [paypal.com] :

Q: What are the system requirements for PayPal Virtual Debit Card?

A: PayPal Virtual Debit Card is compatible with Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.01 or later. Other system requirements include:

Operating System: Windows 98, ME, 2000, NT, or XP
CPU: 133 MHz or higher
Memory: 128 MB RAM
Hard Disk: 2 MB space available
Internet Connection: 56K modem (Broadband recommended for optimal performance)
Web Browser: IE 5.01 or later

Need I say more?

stop beeing so US centric (1)

perler (80090) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379732)

for people outside the US this will be a good thing (TM). here in europe, credit cards aren't so popular as in the US and shop's who only offer payement by credit card (nytimes.com comes to my mind) are just not usable for me (not haveing a CC) so, when paypal finally launches their product, i can stop doing these buys with my mother's CC.

Re:stop beeing so US centric (1)

giorgiofr (887762) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380564)

WTF are you saying? I don't know anyone who doesn't have one or more.

Liability? (2, Informative)

rhainman (952694) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379734)

What happens if you are a victim of a fraudulent purchase and you need to do a chargeback? Is it even possible? I assume it's harder to do because the money has already been paid in full from your own personal account and not from the card issuer's account.

Hasn't Paypal done this for years? (1)

CliffSpradlin (243679) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379754)

I am sure I've used this several years ago, it would make a frame in the top of the browser with the temporary number, and then you could browse any site you wanted to shop underneath and use it there.

I seem to also remember there being issues with lots of places not taking these cards due to extreme fraud.

-Cliff

Re:Hasn't Paypal done this for years? (1)

tgtanman (728257) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379880)

Apparently, the difference between this and the old Virtual Debit Card [paypal.com] is that the new one provides a CVV2 number [wikipedia.org] (the security code on the back). I've been using the old system online for a while and I've never had a problem with websites needing a security code (I think entering 000 makes it work?)

Re:Hasn't Paypal done this for years? (1)

CliffSpradlin (243679) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379940)

Isn't that kind of irrelevent? I thought that CVV was designed so that you'd need physical access to the card, and not just an impression of it (which is why it's printed and not pressed into the card). If so, this card is not physical in any way and such a value would make no difference in its security.

Re:Hasn't Paypal done this for years? (1)

wmshub (25291) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380074)

CVV is the same each time you use it. A compromised site could be modified to store the CVV and the number of the card, then the thief can take these and use your card all they want.

With the paypal system, it is supposed to be safe because the number is only usable *once* before you have to get a new one.

Of course, if somebody can get your paypal password, then all bets are off...but that's just a small problem, right?

If you ever contacted PayPal you know the answer (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17379760)

Here's how PayPal responded (after 3 business days) to my question about one of my transactions. It took me three (3) tries to get a real answer out of them, which was basically: "You'll have to contact the seller".

I will never use PayPal for anything other than cheap crap (less than $100) I buy occasionally on ebay.

Dear A.C.,

Due to an increase in seasonal email volumes, we may not have been able to
answer your email.

If your inquiry has not been resolved or you have further questions
regarding your PayPal account please call 1-402-938-3531.

Thank you for choosing PayPal!

Stay away from paypal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17379782)

If only because of their "customer service". I also got the impression they are not in control of their own system. Like the time I had to change something on my account, and I filled in the form, and wanted to click the Submit button -- there was no submit button.

Similar to a OTP (2, Interesting)

bluefoxlucid (723572) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379808)

This is like PAM-OTP, which I like very much. One-Time-Passwords would be an awesome way to manage credit card purchases; like say, you need to be certified to handle a credit card, but you can withdraw X dollars max no matter who you are via a OTP. If this was implemented I could tell, say, Mastercard, "Generate 15 passwords for me: 5 $5, 5 $50, and 5 $100," and then use those to OTP out purchases. If I use a $100 password to buy a $75 item, $75 is charged and that password is invalid; if I try to use it to buy a $110 item, $100 is charged and I owe $10 to the seller.

Re:Similar to a OTP (1)

jroysdon (201893) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380580)

Yup, at least that's what MBNA (now BankAmerica) has had for a long time. You can lock in the amount and when the card number expires (minimum is 2 months). I love it, and don't worry about shopping online or even via the phone (since I only have a cell phone), since the number is basically useless since I set the limit to the rounded up dollar amount of my purchase.

I also found it useful for sites that wouldn't tell me the tax and shipping costs until AFTER I entered in my creditcard. I'd limit it to the purchase plus what I thought the tax and max shipping cost would be, and this kept the website from charging some stupid extra fees. With MBNA/BofA you can also increase the amount. I don't recall if you can change/extend the expiration date.

I've used the Citibank feature once as well, but that was only because MBNA was merging into BofA and they had the account access down and/or their "ShopSafe" feature wasn't online yet. I don't recall much about the CitiBank one, but I believe there were a few features lacking.

One thing I also like with the MBNA one is you can see the minute a hold (or whatever it is called) is put on funds, as the available amount of money left on the card number goes down, so you know once they've run the transactions.

I just wish there was a way to do this in person, so there wouldn't be fears of the Dollar Store employees ripping you off [eweek.com] . Somehow I think stores would freak if you were told them, "Hold on while I generate a temporary virtual credit card number for you."

Has it's uses (1)

redcaboodle (622288) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379840)

If this works here in Germany I'll be mighty happy. I do not have a credit card, since a debit card works better here.

There are some things I might occasionally need a credit card for (mostly Pearson exams). My Dad won't let me uses his so a one-time card would be just the thing.

Paypal itself is virtual (4, Insightful)

tsstahl (812393) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379856)

Paypal is not a bank.

Paypal is not a savings and loan.

Paypal is not a retail store.

Paypal is not an insurance company.

Paypal is not a manufacturing company

Paypal is not an exchange of any kind.

Paypal is not a foundation committed to a cause.

What argument could then persuade me to trust them with money that is most certainly NOT virtual?

I'm not someone with a cross to bear. Paypal has never screwed me over, and the idea of paypal is very appealing. However, the practices of Paypal have been and are egregious for very little benefit to the average consumer. Even as a small business owner, the appeal of Paypal as it currently operates is scant.

Just mod me as flamebait, I guess. In the immortal words of Tom Hanks in Big, I don't get it!

Re:Paypal itself is virtual (1)

redcaboodle (622288) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379934)

PayPal is a way to easily pay for things around the world for those who do not have credit cards.

If I want to pay for something in the States or UK, I have to go to my bank's branch office, get a foreign money order and send that per registered mail. Takes time and costs a helluva lot of extra cash. Been there, done that, bought the doublet

If I pay by Paypal, the money is credited to the recipient immediatly (even though it is deducted from my account a few days later). Obviously the old banks have slept through a trend here or are too greedy to offer such a reliatively cheap service. Bad luck.

Are you my mother? (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379964)

That's what popped into my ming reading your post.

Still, you're correct. Paypal is about the last corporation I would trust with my money. I have an account which I use for ebay purposes, and it's liked to a small, lightly used checking account separate from my "real" account. I never pay with instant transfer, always using a CC as an intermediary.

As for OTU numbers - I loved them when I had them. Amex canned their program years ago. Visa/MC don't have a system wide program, and my card of choice - Chase - doesn't offer it. I have a discover card for the business, but that's pretty much only because I hate carrying cash at Sams, and I value my money too much to play Debit-roulette with my bank account (if someone scams my CC#, I want it to be somebody else's money they take, not mine).

I'd use OTU numbers exclusively online if I could - the extra "inconvenience" is trivial, imho. Hell, I'd use OTU numbers for physical transactions if I could.

Re:Are you my mother? (1)

jroysdon (201893) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380602)

Tell Chase you want to see this feature and that you're considering switching to MBNA/BankAmerica and/or CitiBank which both offer it. When enough people complain, they'll jump on it.

Re:Paypal itself is virtual (1)

LunaticTippy (872397) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380176)

My friend bought a custom musical instrument from overseas recently. The payment choices were a)2 bank wire transfer with unspecified charges at the 2nd bank and US$50 for the 1st bank. Estimated time was 5-10 days. b)paypal - instant, free (for buyer, 3% or so for seller so $30 on a $1000 purchase)

In this instance, paypal was the sanest option.

Re:Paypal itself is virtual (2, Informative)

tsstahl (812393) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380406)

I see. So, not only is Paypal immune to US banking law, they are free of international monetary regulation.

I would agree that in the example you cited, Paypal was the best choice.

The determination of quality in any operation is not delivering the product when everything goes as planned. Quality is demonstrated when transactions fall outside of normal parameters. Paypal has failed by most reasonable standards when it comes to handling...reverse transactions for lack of a better term.

I suppose you could argue that Paypal does so well at settling international transactions because of their capricious use of their control over your funds.

I'll freely stipulate that Paypal is useful when everything proceeds normally. The threat/chilling effect/risk of Paypal doing Bad Things to me still outweighs their usefulness in my mind. I am sincerely glad that a lot of people find Paypal useful because, as I said in the parent post, the idea of a Paypal service is intriguing, useful, and downright needed for the net to continue growing.

Re:Paypal itself is virtual (2, Interesting)

LunaticTippy (872397) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380536)

I agree that paypal should be subject to laws. It is somewhat unsettling to think that there is little recourse should things go against my best interests. I have made hundreds of paypal transactions without problem, though. I continue to use it. The handful of boundary cases (not receiving an item, falsely accused of not sending an item) were all resolved in my favor, but I made sure to do everything properly. If you miss a deadline you are screwed. If you don't have proof of delivery you are screwed. From what I hear, sometimes for no discernable reason at all, you are screwed. It just hasn't happened to me yet.

It is a transition period in "internet banking." I predict that within 10 years there will be international regulation of this type of bank, and there will be various entities that provide this type of service. Normal banks will have to evolve or perish. So will paypal. I'd like there to be more options, but it is very difficult to reach critical mass at this point. It speaks volumes that Google will be lucky to get it's payment service off the ground.

Oh it'll flop alright. (0, Redundant)

drdanny_orig (585847) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379892)

or will it flop because its too much of an inconvenience?
No, it'll flop because it's PayPal. Does anyone trust those people?

You could always do that with PayPal (2, Insightful)

ahecht (567934) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379932)

Paypal has had that feature working with any browser, without installing any BHOs (or whatever the IE only software is they require now), and without having to be invited to the beta. Just go to https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/shop/v debit [paypal.com] /

This feature has been around for years and years.

Re:You could always do that with PayPal (1)

assassinator42 (844848) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380018)

Is that linked to anywhere from the PayPal site? I know I've used it before, a while ago. The question is: Is PayPal calling this a new service, or did the submitter find an old pop-up and mistake it for new?

Old news? (1)

LouisZepher (643097) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379956)

I could've sworn Pay Pal did this sort of thing years ago. I certainly remember using it long before I got the Pay Pal card or could use my normal bank cards for debit.

Online Gambling (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17379970)

what about online gambling, if this one-time CC number works like real ones does that mean i should be able to gamble with my money *from* paypal ?

Boo! Citibank has been doing this for years! (1)

marcgvky (949079) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379974)

Shame on PayPal for making this look like they have enabled PIN debit transactions over the Net. PayPal worded this VERY intentionally to make people in the transaction processing world pay attention; by calling it a virtual debit card the implication is PIN debit transactions.

This is just a copy cat of Citibanks long-standing program of temporary numbers.... and that systems works well.

YAWN.

Real or Virtual (1)

themindfantastic (1025938) | more than 7 years ago | (#17379978)

I was thinking when I saw this that there would be a card directly from ones paypal account to the real world through mastercard's access channels. Now THAT would be sweet, at least for me.

Old Fart Alert (1)

somepunk (720296) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380004)

Back in the day, before any banks had gotten clueful, we used First Virtual [virtualschool.edu] . Each transaction required an email confirmation, which was nice for security, but probably too big a pain in the posterior. It didn't last very long.

Good idea....but (1)

doobie (2546) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380030)

Only supports IE. It has no Firefox support, ATM

Old Tech (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17380254)

Will people be more comfortable making online purchases with this, or will it flop because its too much of an inconvenience?

I don't expect this to last very long. You used to be able to buy "Internet" cards at local convenience stores that operated like a gift card (or phone card), you put a specific amount of money on it and used it online like a credit card. It was a great idea and gave excellent peace of mind to people who wanted to buy stuff online.

To make a long story short, the major credit card companies ran these "upstarts" out of business.

Maybe in today's world of online identity theft and fraud, these cards can make a return. But I think that the established credit card empire will crush this attempt at competition as swiftly as they did the first time.

The throw away credit card number (2, Interesting)

dissy (172727) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380632)

In fairness, the throw-away credit card number part should be fairly decent as far as online shopping goes.

I used to have an actual credit card that had this feature (MBNA bank if anyone is interested, highly recomended.)

They had it where you could use the app on the webpage, or download what appeared to be a flash standalone app that did the same thing.

It would generate a credit card #, exp date (of your choosing, min 1 month in advance rounded to the end of that month) and the 3 digit code. You could also set a limit on that card.
Once it was charged to by someone, the number was locked to that vendor, and only they could make future charges to it.
You can also go in and shut it off at any time prior to the expiration.

The idea is, in the automated way a charge is made to the card, and even if it is stored, stolen, or sniffed along the way, anyone ELSE trying to use that number after the automated charge would get denied.
Also the store itself would get denied if it tried to charge over the limit, or past the expiration or when you disabled the number.

It was a feature I used quite alot.

The only downside here is the fact its PayPal and not a real bank. So kudos for them adding a good feature, but booo for them still being paypal and all the downsides that entails.

e-cards has been around for a couple of years. (1)

Futil3 (931900) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380968)

My bank has had this kind of service (called e-card) for a few years already. I can access it directly via the browser (java, works well in all OSes) or as a standalone client (windows only). It allows me to create "e-cards" for one-off charges, as well as for subscription fees. It's quite excellent; very useful and -able.

PayPal has done this before (1)

kmkz (1022021) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381004)

This is definitely not new. I have been using a PayPal virtual debit card to pay for my server costs for about 3 years. Recently it seems they took it off-line (so I went out and got a real debit card from them) possibly to create hype for something they have always offered...

Virtual debts too? (1)

noidentity (188756) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381034)

Just a question, if I use one of these, do I merely incur virtual debts? If so, this is great, as I don't play any online games, so the virtual bill collector will never be able to find me!
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