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Piracy Outstripping Legal Video Sales?

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 7 years ago | from the consumers-have-made-their-desires-clear dept.

294

b.burl writes to tell us a recently released report by the NDP Group supports the horror stories being fed to us by studio execs, but not quite in the way those execs would have you believe. The study shows a continued rise in video piracy compared to legal video sales. The largest target continues to be adult oriented content and TV shows, with only an estimated 5 percent being mainstream movie content. From the article: "[A]mong U.S. households with members who regularly use the Internet, 8 percent (six million households) downloaded at least one digital video file (10MB or larger) from a P2P service for free in the third quarter of 2006. Nearly 60 percent of video files downloaded from P2P sites were adult-film content, while 20 percent was TV show content and 5 percent was mainstream movie content."

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The Internet is for Porn! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17380598)

Why you think the net was born?

Porn! Porn! Porn!

Adult oriented content (5, Funny)

Warbringer87 (969664) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380610)

#1 cause of computer literacy among 18-24 males.

Re:Adult oriented content (2, Funny)

WormholeFiend (674934) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380642)

#1 cause of computer literacy among 18-24 males.

They download pr0n for the articles?

Color me skeptical.

Re:Adult oriented content (4, Insightful)

s_p_oneil (795792) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380816)

He didn't say "literacy". He said "computer literacy". Here are all the things they can learn from it (often in this order):

1) How to use a mouse.
2) How to launch and use a web browser.
3) What local files and folders are, and why it's a good idea to save your favorite videos locally in your own folder.
4) How to hide things stored locally so your parent, boss, girlfriend, etc. can't find it.
5) How to install and use P2P software (often followed by how to install anti-malware software).
6) How to locate and install video and audio codecs.
7) How to find and use anonymous proxies to circumvent those pesky web filtering devices.
8) How to set up their own proxies, write scripts or programs, and/or hack the filtering device to circumvent it.

Some kids end up becoming programmers, IT specialists, or even hackers just to be able to see a boob. ;-)

Re:Adult oriented content (3, Funny)

dj961 (660026) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380934)

9) Left-handed surfing technique(southpaws will need to adjust accordingly.)

Re:Adult oriented content (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17380964)

Is that why the 60-100+ group doesn't give a rats ass about computer literacy.

Re:Adult oriented content (1, Funny)

chia_monkey (593501) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381220)

Also the #1 cause of blindness and uwanted hair growth on the palms of 18-24 year olds...

A shame... (4, Interesting)

KingSkippus (799657) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380616)

20 percent [of video files downloaded from P2P sites] was TV show content

And this is a crying shame.

I download television show content myself. What I can get on iTunes, I get on iTunes and pay $2 per show, or buy a whole season at a time. What I can't, I seek elsewhere, including P2P networks. I don't download movies at all, because I can simply get them on DVD.

The fact is that I'm not going to pay $50 a month for cable or satellite for something that's, frankly, not worth that much to me. Television and movie studios can either get compensation for their stuff by making it available to me in a manner I want (iTunes/timely release of DVDs), or they can get bupkiss when I download it for free, an option that I'd really rather avoid, to be honest.

If, god forbid, the industry succeeds somehow in making television shows impossible to download, then I simply won't watch their stuff at all. Most of it has that little value to me.

It's all so stupid. I can't believe there's an industry out there that is so desperate to stop the pirates that they're willing to forego billions of dollars, yet here we are, living it.

If someone gave you the choice of making $1 billion for making a television show, but the show is pirated to an extent such that over half the people who watch it don't pay you, or making $500 million for making a television show with little or no piracy of it at all with a much, much smaller audience, which would you prefer?

Yeah, me too. Stupid, huh?

As for porn, I don't care. I've only seen a few porn movies myself, and I don't find them exciting. I honestly think that porn is one of those things that everyone thinks they're supposed to be really into, so they watch it and act like it's a big deal; but realistically, once you've seen one, you've pretty much seen them all. People get naked and do it, ho hum. Check out this other one where... Um... People get naked and do it, ho hum. But you know, whatever. I guess if there's anything I don't understand about that is why people still buy DVDs or the naughty channels on cable when they can pretty much get anything they want over the Internet.

MythTV your TV (2, Insightful)

drewzhrodague (606182) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380714)

The fact is that I'm not going to pay $50 a month for cable or satellite for something that's, frankly, not worth that much to me.

I agree, and this is why Free-to-Air satellite, and the dismal excuse for basic cable that Comcast gives me are okay options. I record those things of interest with my MythTV [mythtv.org] Knoppix distro [mysettupbox.tv] . While there aren't that many science fiction shows, I am quite satisfied to watch whatever comes across the airwaves, like ST:TNG, and the weekly episode of Farscape. I can't justify spending an additional $40-$80 per month for expanded cable -- I just don't watch that much TV, and I generally don't care to have the latest and greatest shows.

That being said, there are a few movies that I haven't seen yet, which I record and watch at my leisure. We do have a Netflix [netflix.com] account, which satisfies any other desire to watch anything else. Besides, I spend my days in front of a monitor, I'm not so interested in sitting in front of a TV when I get home.

Re:MythTV your TV (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17380972)

The thing is, I pay for cable. I TiVo shows most of the time because they're never on at a convenient time. Sometimes the TiVo doesn't work. If the show doesn't air again prior to the next week's episode, I download the episode so that I don't get lost. If it's on iTunes, I get it there. If it's on the network's web page, I download it there. If it isn't in either of those places, I download via P2P.

I'm not about to wait an entire year for them to get the season out on DVD (and then be an entire year behind at following my favorite TV shows) just because my TiVo failed to record a show. I've already paid for the right to see the show by paying for cable, so I personally don't see such downloads as being piracy. However, I guarantee that people like me who have a legal right to that content are being counted as "pirates".

These studies are so laughable that it's embarrassing.

Re:A shame... (1)

the_humeister (922869) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380876)

If someone gave you the choice of making $1 billion for making a television show, but the show is pirated to an extent such that over half the people who watch it don't pay you, or making $500 million for making a television show with little or no piracy of it at all with a much, much smaller audience, which would you prefer?


Why, I'd pick that one of course!

Yeah, me too. Stupid, huh?


Yes indeed.

Re:A shame... (4, Insightful)

MillionthMonkey (240664) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380952)

If someone gave you the choice of making $1 billion for making a television show, but the show is pirated to an extent such that over half the people who watch it don't pay you, or making $500 million for making a television show with little or no piracy of it at all with a much, much smaller audience, which would you prefer?

$1 billion and no future customers vs. $0.5 billion and lots of currently unsatisfied future customers?

They're not exactly in it for the money, not for today anyway. You're thinking short term. The RIAA and their partners at Microsoft are willing to make the necessary investments now so that they can eventually do for arts, culture, and politics what DeBeers did for diamonds. They basically want a stranglehold on popular culture so that they can reduce the diversity of viewpoints you hear and limit the quality of audio/video signals that you see- quite a lucrative position to be in that also confers significant political power. With consolidated media you can selectively promote political candidates who will let your lobbyists write the bills that they pass in Congress, and you can easily suppress alternative viewpoints from being heard anywhere except on the Internet. Political suppression on the Internet will require political/legislative fixes, to solve problems like Net Neutrality that just let anyone say anything.

Re:A shame... (1)

HeroreV (869368) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381012)

Woah! Maybe I'm just basing this on myself or social expectations, but you seem really screwed up. Maybe you should see a sexologist of something.

But then, I have no interest in sports, and there are billions of people who would find that to be quite strange.

Re:A shame... (2, Funny)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381372)

Maybe I'm just basing this on myself or social expectations, but you seem really screwed up.

      Honestly guy, you've never been butt-raped in the mud by a doberman while being tied up and whipped by your dungeon mistress? Everybody is doing it! You don't know what you're missing! Maybe you're the one who needs to see a sexologist. Loosen up, pal, it fun! :)

Re:A shame... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17381104)

You clearly have never actually purchased porn.

I have a friend that has an online porn store. He says the porn that sells the best often involves no (or little) actual sex.

Generally it is really wierd stuff, such as whips, mud, animals, etc.

That is the kind of stuff people actually pay to see, not "naked and they are doing it."

Re:A shame... (2, Insightful)

jfengel (409917) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381132)

In the case of TV, the networks have a special consideration: nearly free bandwidth. They get premium advertising space delivered into everybody's home for free, which allows them to produce really expensive shows with a truly national audience. And the must-carry laws mean that they have to be available on cable systems, too.

Therefore, pay-to-download doesn't just substitute one form of income for another; it completely undermines this immense boondoggle they've been given in over-the-air broadcasting. And if they aren't broadcasting on the air, they aren't automatically on the cable, either.

So it's not just about losing control of the content. It's about losing control of the means of distribution and becoming just another thing, lost in the noise like a YouTube video.

you obviously know nothing about porn (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17381168)

Uhhh, I don't know what planet you're living on, but here on Earth, porn is VERY popular, if anything, MORE people are fans of it than care to admit. The whole beauty of Internet porn is the SHEER variety of it all. Seen one, seen 'em all? I could say the same thing about Chinese people, but that would be just ignorant, wouldn't it? If you're not into porn, and it's "all the same to you", that's fine and dandy. I can't fathom why people like professional football so much. Seen one game, seen em all, right?

Re:A shame... (2, Funny)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381218)

People get naked and do it, ho hum. Check out this other one where... Um... People get naked and do it, ho hum.

Actually, it's more like, "Wow! I've never seen the cat jump that high."

Pr0n? (0, Redundant)

sucker_muts (776572) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380618)

So it's like 60% of porn p2p downloads?

Those porn actors should not complain about loss of sales, they get busy each and every day for hours! Who are they to complain! :-D

Re:Pr0n? (5, Funny)

Lord Kano (13027) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380794)

Those porn actors should not complain about loss of sales, they get busy each and every day for hours! Who are they to complain! :-D

Would you want to fuck Ron Jeremy for free?

LK

Re:Pr0n? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17381336)

Would you want to fuck Ron Jeremy for free?

Yes. Why do you flatter yourself to think he would fuck you for free?

Re:Pr0n? (0)

Lord Kano (13027) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381362)

Yes. Why do you flatter yourself to think he would fuck you for free?

Being that I'm a guy, that question is N/A.

LK

Re:Pr0n? (2, Insightful)

TranscendentalAnarch (1005937) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381360)

Hey man, if you had to star in as many gay fetish movies as they did before making it in the biz you might understand. As far as they're concerned, they're still getting paid for that long day with all those trannies, back before they made it big enough to be in straight movies.

No kidding... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17380628)

No kidding...

especially since it costs $8.50 to see some movie in the theater that is either going to be either crappy or a bad remake of some other movie...

and it costs nearly $5.00 to rent a movie now.

GO PIRACY!

Metrics used are flawed (4, Insightful)

eln (21727) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380638)

10MB is still well within the range of the size of videos porn sites flood the net with as teasers to get people to go pay for the full-length stuff on their websites. Just because it's being downloaded for free via P2P doesn't mean it's piracy or illegal, it may be precisely what the publishers of the content wanted.

Re:Metrics used are flawed (2, Insightful)

Nos. (179609) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380738)

Okay, but they did say 10MB or larger. However, the stats they have are pretty useless. They give no indication of how many of those downloads were of copyrighted material. I download trailers of games and movies over P2P all the time.

10MB is what, about 10 minutes of poor qual vid? (1)

BenJeremy (181303) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380978)

The metric is asinine to the nth degree. Who buys 10 minutes of video at a store? Basically, they are talking about people watching YouTube videos and calling them "illegal" because they might be clips of SNL or the latest South Park.

A real metric would be measuring how many people downloaded FULL PROGRAMS and BURNED THEM TO DISCS for permanent storage.

They might as well claim everybody who uses NetFlix and BlockBuster is a pirate, too, since they rent movies, as well.

Re:10MB is what, about 10 minutes of poor qual vid (1)

kimvette (919543) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381234)

I downloaded all the seasons of Futurama and Stargate, but you know what else I did/am doing? That's right, I'm buying the expensive box sets. Timeshifting is legal, fair use, etc. plus I PAY for the programming (Cable premium channels) so whether I set my VCR, TV app, or download it, what the hell is the difference? It all comes down to timeshifting. They should kiss my feet because I am buying the box sets after legally timeshifting every season of those shows.

OH NOES, THESE PEOPLE MIGHT DECIDE TO BUY THE DVDS!!! ZOMG PIRACY!

Re:Metrics used are flawed (0, Offtopic)

rHBa (976986) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381134)

As these stats are for the number of downloads not the GBs downloaded, I can, perhaps, see where they come from.

Personally I can't be bothered to download a whole adult movie, a 5 minute clip is usually sufficient. So let's say, for arguments sake, I download four 5 minute (20-50MB) adult movie clips until I have found what I'm looking for, three times a week that's 12 downloads.

I might only download 1 700-1400MB mainstream movie a week and as I know what I'm getting (using imdb.com and vcdquality.com) before I download it I only download it once.

Result:

1 mainstream movie download:12 pr0n downloads

but averaging out the file sizes

~1050MB movie:~420MB pr0n.

Ready, normal people? (1)

Tackhead (54550) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380640)

> The largest target continues to be adult oriented content and TV shows, with only an estimated 5 percent being mainstream movie content. From the article:

The Internet is for porn! [youtube.com] (What NDP wrote!)
The Internet is for porn! (I shake my Wiimote!)
Wii up all night honking our horn
To porn, porn, porn!

Which is from (1)

BitterAndDrunk (799378) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381366)

The Broadway show, Avenue Q.

Just in case anyone didn't know. It's a pretty funny musical.

Re:Ready, normal people? (1)

varmittang (849469) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381404)

Perry's Perspective

2. I'm fairly sure that if they took all the porn off the Internet, there'd only be 1 website left, and it would be called Bring Back The Porn.

http://www3.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii2xOV6dqGc [youtube.com]

Lots of p2p sites do not offer adult (1)

LiquidCoooled (634315) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380646)

I don't generally see porn movies on the p2p sites.
There are a few which have general keywords coming up in the search clouds, but on the whole its tv shows and general movies which are big (and on some its languages, like "French").

Take a look at one such cloud [mininova.org] which does include adult keywords, but they are dwarfed by big budget tv.

The internet is for PORN (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17380648)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxkF6EKk8LY [youtube.com]
Porn Porn Porn

"[A]mong U.S. households..." Done. (0, Troll)

repetty (260322) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380650)

From the Article:
> "[A]mong U.S. households with members who regularly use the Internet,
> 8 percent (six million households) downloaded at least one digital
> video file (10MB or larger) from a P2P service for free in the third
> quarter of 2006.

Bullshit.

Done.

Re:"[A]mong U.S. households..." Done. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17380828)

As an ISP I can tell how many of my users have download files P2P during any given time period. Few people have believed me, but yah, it is less than 10%. That 10% uses 80% of the bandwidth. So I've always told other ISP's that they can kick the 10% if they want to and it won't effect profits. Now maybe they'll see it is true.

Re:"[A]mong U.S. households..." Done. (2, Insightful)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381278)

That 10% uses 80% of the bandwidth. So I've always told other ISP's that they can kick the 10% if they want to and it won't effect profits.

      Yes because heaven forbid that someone who signed up for your service actually USES the bandwidth you have promised him. Or did you just make promises that you really can't/have no intention of keeping? Here, sign up, pay the monthly fee, but don't use the service. This is like a car insurance company that decides not to pay a claim because someone keeps crashing their car all the time. You either a) refuse to renew their policy when it expires and/or b) put their premiums up. But you HAVE to pay the current policy...otherwise you're guilty of fraud.

So this means.... (1)

bndnchrs (1044108) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380652)

That only 4.8% of internet users downloaded 10 MB of internet porn? I feel like thats a conservative estimate... well...*cough*, I wouldnt know

Re:So this means.... (3, Insightful)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381026)

That only 4.8% of internet users downloaded 10 MB of internet porn?

      No, it's a survey, remember? Only 4.8% of internet users ADMITTED to downloading 10MB of porn ;)

I'm shocked and surprised (2, Insightful)

macadamia_harold (947445) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380658)

Nearly 60 percent of video files downloaded from P2P sites were adult-film content, while 20 percent was TV show content and 5 percent was mainstream movie content.

Only 60 percent? The fact that the amount of porn being downloaded is nowhere near the 90% mark surely spells doom for the mainstream tv & movie industry.

piracy rate for commercially available content (2, Interesting)

PTBarnum (233319) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380664)

Generally, movies are more easily available for purchase than TV shows, which might explain a lot about these findings. It would have been very nice if NPD could subdivide their categories into content which is available online or on DVD, and that which is not. Then we could see the extent to which legal distribution channels cut piracy.

Why is this surprising? (4, Insightful)

$RANDOMLUSER (804576) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380694)

Blockbuster doesn't carry pr0n, neither does Wal-Mart. Besides, your neighbors are at Wal-Mart.

I think TV series are in the position that VHS movies were 15 years ago. Back then, movies cost 80$ US, and nobody bought them. When the price came down to the 20$ range, they started to sell. I think many people feel the same about TV series. At 80$ a season, they're not going to sell. I mean, after all it's just a TV show. If the prices came down to the 30$ range, I bet more people would buy them because they're major fans, or to watch the two episodes they missed.

Re:Why is this surprising? (2, Informative)

Elentari (1037226) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380812)

Actually, there's a Blockbuster store in my town that does.

uhhh you sure it's a blockbuster? (1)

BitterAndDrunk (799378) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381440)

I'm pretty sure it's against company policy. They're run by Mormons or something.

Re:Why is this surprising? (1)

kwerle (39371) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381282)

I don't suppose they'll ever sell me one, thank you, NetFlix.

Netflix carries all the TV I want to see - except Mythbusters, and the daily show on a nightly basis.

Hmm. I just got an iTunes card - that may take care of Daily Show! Mythbusters I've requested Netflix carry.

Cable failed to live up to it's early hype - TV without commercials (yeah, that was the idea). Now it is dead to me because of that failing.

Yeah, I'm still paying for the content, and that's fine with me.

The bottom line is: I won't be buying any TV content on disk, and I don't suppose it's worth anyone else doing so. I'd much rather have netflix and go through the content that way. I don't need to own it. Heck, the local library contains seasons of some content (including 6' under).

That's what i see when cleaning a machine (1)

80 85 83 83 89 33 (819873) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380720)

when ever i'm cleaning spyware, there usually is a limewire/bearshare/kazaa icon on the desktop (along with the ie icon, always!); and in their documents/temp folders a half-dozen or so porn clips of the same content type/category (and usually of the same format, for some reason); usually just one film, and a hundred or two incomplete/bogus song downloads. nowdays i'm seeing an itunes folder on those machines on a regular basis as well -- but i don't take the time to see if those songs were bought or not, maybe i should, and then i could publish my own report!

Re:That's what i see when cleaning a machine (1)

80 85 83 83 89 33 (819873) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380784)

something else i've noticed: i've never been asked to work on a machine that had a graphics card higher than a geforce 5200... usually onboard, or the mx400, etc.

i wonder if that is because those that use powerful accelerators know how to keep their machine clean and healthy?

Re:That's what i see when cleaning a machine (1)

ottothecow (600101) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381606)

now that you mention that, I have probobly noticed that too among university students (with the exception of laptops where often some kids parents will buy them the greatest and most expensive laptop they can find and they will end up with a fancy card to play freecell with). Its probably due to the fact that to get those high end cards you really have to build it yourself or know what you want because otherwise the price tag is going to scare you off. Even a lower end card these days can play most games so its only the people who want to play some top-end games on high settings who have a need for the cards. Those people are likely to be knowledgeable enough to avoid issues and solve problems themselves (that or they spend so much time playing WoW that they dont pick up viruses and dont have time to leave the game to get someone to fix any problems they do have...)

I'm a bad, bad pirate (4, Insightful)

Dirtside (91468) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380734)

Pirate that I am, I evilly downloaded the first three episodes of Heroes because I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. The videos I downloaded had had ALL THE COMMERCIALS REMOVED! No revenue for you, NBC!

Of course, as a result, my wife and I sit down and watch Heroes on NBC every week, including commercials (we don't watch enough TV to need a TiVo). If we hadn't been able to illegally download those videos, we'd likely not be watching the show OR the commercials.

So I ask: Did it benefit or hurt NBC that I illegally downloaded and watched the first three episodes of Heroes?

Re:I'm a bad, bad pirate (5, Funny)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380804)

You hurt them on the inside ;(

Re:I'm a bad, bad pirate (1)

InfinityWpi (175421) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380938)

It doesn't matter. The law is not about who benefits or who gets hurts; the law is about the law. Which, admittedly, is part of the problem.

Re:I'm a bad, bad pirate (1)

kimvette (919543) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381548)

What, that the law provides exclusions for timeshifting, which really is what this is a form of?

Re:I'm a bad, bad pirate (3, Interesting)

rachit (163465) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380958)

You can go to www.nbc.com and download Heroes episodes from thier website. Not sure if includes commercials or not, but IMO, nbc is doing the right thing here by allowing access to episodes over the web (even if it was with commercials).

Re:I'm a bad, bad pirate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17381236)

The problem here, though preferable to no access at all, is that I can't view this content on my television. This is not a bash at NBC for this show, because they are at least doing something but in this case the 'pirated' version is still higher quality than I can get directly from them because I can view it on my choice of device. I am not sure what the answer is but it has to be something where the product that is being offered is at least as convenient and at least as good as the free, allbeit less ethical, alternative.

Re:I'm a bad, bad pirate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17381126)

I downloaded the rest as well, because I'm an evil, evil person, and you can't get the episodes any other way here (in the UK). Really, if I could buy a DVD, or even buy them on iTunes, I would, but there's nothing...

Re:I'm a bad, bad pirate (1)

ElleyKitten (715519) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381130)

So I ask: Did it benefit or hurt NBC that I illegally downloaded and watched the first three episodes of Heroes?
Are you a Nielsen viewer (as in, are you one of the people that Nielsen Media Research surveys to see what people watch on TV)? If no, then whether you watch Heroes on the air or from piracy makes absolutly no difference to NBC. Maybe you'll buy something that was advertised during it, and maybe that company will spend more money advertising on NBC, but how do they know that's where their extra sales came from? In fact, unless you tell Nielsen viewers to watch it, it doesn't actually matter to NBC whether you even watch it or not! If you want to support a show, buy it from iTunes or on DVD, or call up the advertisers and thank them for supporting the show or join a fan campaign to give more attention to the show, but just watching the show over broadcast doesn't actually help them since they don't know you're watching.

Re:I'm a bad, bad pirate (1)

NitsujTPU (19263) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381244)

Not that your argument doesn't hold any water, but in the case of Heroes, NBC offers the show online on their website. It can also be downloaded off of iTunes.

You had to download? (1)

antdude (79039) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381406)

Just watch them online [nbc.com] . :) OK, it has advertisements but it's free beside that.

5 Percent? (5, Interesting)

SandwhichMaster (1044184) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380764)

The MPAA is constantly whining, wasting millions of dollars, and annoying all of us over 5 percent? I made the mistake of buying a DVD recently and had to sit through that annoying anti piracy clip. You know... "You wouldn't steal a car would you? You wouldn't steal a purse..." Yeah, because stealing a car, and copying a DVD are even remotely the same. Its frustrating and insulting that every time I watch my PURCHASED DVD, this stupid thing will come up. I don't like being accused of stealing, before watching my movies. Ironically, if I'd have just pirated the movie, I wouldn't be seeing that clip, as well as other annoying previews. Maybe they should concentrate on making good movies to win over new customers, instead of insulting remaining customers.

Re:5 Percent? (1)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380982)

You wouldn't steal a car would you? You wouldn't steal a purse...

      Yes I would, yes I woul... oops?

Re:5 Percent? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17381044)

"You wouldn't steal a car would you? You wouldn't steal a purse..."

"You wouldn't steal a glance at a pretty girl undressing in front of you, would you? You would? Welcome to the 60 percent of adult video pirates, you pervert."

Re:5 Percent? (1)

bigberk (547360) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381378)

It is insulting to be put through an educational lesson on the industry's demands. So stop buying the DVDs, that's what I did. (Rent second-hand to keep money away from the industry). I'm not going to pay to be talked down to... and when I do go to movies, it's second run theatres

Re:5 Percent? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17381466)

Frankly that is why I bought a DivX compatible DVD player. I download movies at random, like watching weekly movie on TV. If I like the movie I burn it to a CD and add it to my collection. This means NO Previews, NO Menu animations, NO forced shit.

So right now my collection is 3 Bought DVDs and ?????? Burned, unburned, unrestricted content.

I am now of the belief since I have been with unrestricted content for so long that I will only watch restricted content if its free (Public TV, Video clips, Free sites, etc..) and BUY unrestricted content (Which there is none).

Outstrip? (3, Funny)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380766)

v. to outdo; surpass; excel.

I don't think this word means what you think it means. To outstrip legal downloads, piracy would have had to been behind first, which is a preposterous claim.

Obvious who the pirates are (1)

edwardpickman (965122) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380778)

Nearly 60 percent of video files downloaded from P2P sites were adult-film content

You can tell it's geeks and nerds doing the downloading.

What about renting / copying (1)

Cracked Pottery (947450) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380810)

I admit I rent old movies and copy them. I would voluntarily pay a royalty on the media. I have unusual tastes and could not find these movies in the bargain bin at WalMart. I have never Torrented a new release. I have never hosted MP3's with a P2P application. I am a weak pirate. Yar.

Re:What about renting / copying (1)

Deliveranc3 (629997) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380932)

I have never hosted MP3's with a P2P application. I am a weak pirate.

Back in the day they called you a leech...

Fixed that for you.

Re:What about renting / copying (1)

quicks0rt (983047) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381156)

I think you should re-read his post.

Re:What about renting / copying (1)

Cracked Pottery (947450) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381172)

My MP3 collection was all from CD's that I bought not downloaded. You don't understand the point.

Re:What about renting / copying (1)

bigberk (547360) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381412)

I admit I rent old movies and copy them. I would voluntarily pay a royalty on the media.
If you're in Canada you are paying a built in royalty on the blank media, so you are paying for this privilege. Keep doing it, I do too.

You Have to Pay.... (1)

sycodon (149926) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380844)

for P0rn?

I am a pirate (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17380882)

I downloaded an episode of Battlestar Galactica off a p2p network to see what all the fuss was about. Now I watch the show every week, have bought the miniseries and first season for myself and others, bought several episodes on iTunes, and have rented season 2 and 2.5. I've spent a lot of money on BSG, all because I pirated an episode.

The thing about pirating video is that you are probably going to want to see it on a larger screen with a nice sound system. Most people don't have that kind of gear hooked up to a computer, they don't want to sit at a desk and listen to tinny sound. They also don't want to go through the trouble of hooking a computer up to a home theater or figure out how to get a video file to play in their DVD player. So they are like me, they might download a few things to see if they like them, then if they do they go out and buy it.

tv shows illegal? (3, Insightful)

jupiterssj4 (801031) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380910)

Why is downloading TV shows illegal? They are broadcast for free on the tv anyway, and I just fast forward at 5X through the commercials on my DVR, so I don't see them anyway. Why are they pissy about tv shows being bad to download, oh no! someone might actually watch their show! I agree about porn being up there, its because its expensive and not at common rental places or stores

Re:tv shows illegal? (2, Insightful)

IANAAC (692242) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381458)

Why is downloading TV shows illegal?

I pretty much agree with you if they're broadcast over-the-air shows, but some of the most popular shows being downloaded are actually shows on HBO, SHO, etc, which are premium channels with no commercials to begin with.

That being said, I can also understand why people continue to do it: Premium cable is not at all cheap.

Movie Exec's Boardroom Conversation (2, Funny)

ConallB (876297) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380912)

Oligarch #1: There seems to be a trend towards downloading content...
Oligarch #2: Really, wow, what should we do about that? Leverage the new technology to our advantage?
Oligarch #1: Naaa, lets bury our head in the sand and pretend its not happening! That way we dont have to do any actual work and can continue to skim traditional channels for the bulk of the cash!
Oligarch #2: Cool, and lets sue the internet!
Oligarch #1: Yeah, that will work! Kinda like our "fart vs thunder" collegues in the RIAA!

Pay content will increase (3, Informative)

Nightspirit (846159) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380914)

...and it is incredibly addicting. Xbox live media download has serious flaws (lack of content, lack of chapters, etc.) but it is incredibly easy to use. I've already spent $60 on there due to just being bored and having instant (well, within 5 minutes) gratification. I've since toned down my purchases, but that $60 is more than I've spent all year on DVDs and CDs.

I believe once content providers use and improve on this model pay pay to download content will approach or surpass illegal downloads.

Where can I buy videos for download without DRM? (4, Insightful)

vertinox (846076) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380916)

Seeing what the answer to that question will explain why piracy is doing better than legitimate sales.

As soon as they put the videos online for sale and download without DRM and a standardized format (Divx or Xvid), I think you will see a dramatic change.

Methinks their bias is showing... (1)

mmell (832646) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380922)

...amount of intellectual property stolen from mainstream movie studios...

Stolen? As in, somebody got onto the studio lot, entered the writer's office/cubicle and physically removed a sheet of paper/diskette/stone tablet with the only copy of the ideas (which the writers had already forgotten, having cast their one script spell per day)?

Perhaps I take that word "stolen" too literally, but doesn't stealing typically involve depriving someone of their property? AFAIK, the studios haven't physically lost anything - perhaps TFA's orientation/bias shows through? To me, this article looks like the *AA trying to reaffirm their argument that downloading media content is theft.

The *AA has been saying all along that their losing hundreds of millions of dollars to piracy. When asked where they get those numbers, they produce figures which boggle the imagination (thousands of dollars lost for each MP3 I download? Hmmm...).

I almost sense the *AA trying to salvage their claims of being greatly harmed by internet piracy. Almost as though to say "Well, we exaggerated our claims in the past, but now everything we said before is coming true! See?! Soon, piracy will double or treble, and then what we've been saying all along will really be the truth!"

Incidentally, googling on NPD gives me the impression that they've gamed Google. The Wikipedia article on NPD was last updated within the month. I just don't see a lot of credibility for TFA, or for the NVD.

Re:Methinks their bias is showing... (1)

Randseed (132501) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381510)

Stolen? As in, somebody got onto the studio lot, entered the writer's office/cubicle and physically removed a sheet of paper/diskette/stone tablet with the only copy of the ideas (which the writers had already forgotten, having cast their one script spell per day)? Perhaps I take that word "stolen" too literally, but doesn't stealing typically involve depriving someone of their property? AFAIK, the studios haven't physically lost anything - perhaps TFA's orientation/bias shows through? To me, this article looks like the *AA trying to reaffirm their argument that downloading media content is theft.
As an interesting aside, the entire ambiguity over whether piracy is really stealing as in the sense of stealing a car or something different leads some redence to the Sapir-Worph(sp) hypothesis. Basically, the idea is that the sematics and vocabulary of a language constrain thought within that language. See also symantic dilution.

If the word "steal" means "to take the property of another wrongfully and especially as a habitual or regular practice" (www.m-w.com), then one has to define "intellectual property" and so on. But prior to all the piracy hysteria, nobody really thought of photocopying a newspaper article as "stealing" it because someone might not buy the entire paper for that article, or even photocopying a chapter out of a textbook as "stealing" for the same reason. Perhaps morall ambiguous? Okay. But if I steal your car, you are deprived of that car because now I have it, and you can't drive it. As a result, the word "steal" doesn't mean quite what it meant before, and becomes more ambiguous, diluting its meaning. The same concept applies for the terms "murder" and "abortion:" If you keep saying "abortion is murder," you dilute the meaning of the word "murder."

Perhaps I "steal" an episode of a TV show by downloading it. I watch it. Argurably, the studio lost money from ad revenue. But what if the movie was on Showtime and I subscribe to Showtime? Showtime therefore hasn't lost ANYTHING. And in the case of ad-based television, if I return next week to actually watch the show on their channel, they have a net gain. But I guess if I fast-forward through all the ads, then I've also "stolen" the TV show.

Here we go again... (1)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 7 years ago | (#17380944)

Most Slashdotters are immune to this argument by now. But for the newcomers - welcome, and let the trolling commence!!!

Makes perfect sense as in the HBO documentary (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17380954)

In HBO's documentary, thinkingXXX, they mentioned that porn stars mainly do the movie to gain popularity and then hit the strip-club/dance circuit--that's were they make most of their money.

This is bad news for the distro companies in adult enterainment, but a winfall for the porn stars and even the production companies.

Moral of the story, being there live is always something worth paying for, Otherwise, it should be free unless someone builds a tap into the brain.

A fraction of a fraction of a fraction? How awful! (1)

nick_davison (217681) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381056)

5% of the 8% of only the percentage of households that are regular interenet users downloaded a movie content file over 10mb with no distinction made as to whether it was a trailer or not? And that's before we consider it's just as likely one kid in the house and everyone else living there never sees it.

Sweet Jesus, how will the U.S. movie industry survive if almost a quarter of one whole percent of Americans refuse to buy in to their revenue model?

That adds up. I mean, think about it. It's a mighty... hmm, still under a million dollars on the biggest movies of all time and the cost of a box of popcorn from the profits of the latest Owen Wilson movie.

cut off nose to spite face (3, Insightful)

grapeape (137008) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381072)

I download the occasional tv show, when I happen to be busy when the show I like is broadcast or I fail to tivo it. IMHO if the Execs would look at the big picture they would find that it probably increases revenue rather than lessens it. Take 24 for instance, its a show where you pretty much have to see every episode, if I miss one I download it. The alternative is to wait until the season is over and buy the box set, which I do anyway. When I miss a show or several episodes and cant find a torrent, I generally just stop watching until the box set is available so they loose my eyeballs the rest of the season. Usually somewhere in between the missed show and the dvd release I tend to loose interest and forget about it, so they loose even the dvd revenue. This is what happend with me and Lost, I watched all of the first season, missed almost a month of season two and the only torrents I could find were unbearably slow so I just stopped watching. I had every intention of getting it on DVD but found another show I liked that was on at the same time so I still havent bothered.

I dont have an IPod and dont care for itunes, but if I could buy a download at a reasonable price that was at a resolution viewable on my tv I would have no problem doing so. A few networks have at least figured out part of that, my son for example watches Ben10 on cartoon networks website for free regularly. Since its free he doesnt mind watching it on the computer, they flash banner ads so they get their ad revenue and everyone is happy.

For some reason the networks have a hard time accepting that times have changed the days of the whole family sitting down at 8pm to watch Ed Sullivan are long over, people are busier and have more diversions and distractions. Giving the viewing audience flexability is the future, the old ways will die, it might take a while and will be fought tooth and nail but its no less inevitable.

Re:cut off nose to spite face (1)

TadMSTR (996071) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381420)

Thats why I download tv shows. The shows I watch are on when I'm doing something else. For instance, when I'm out with my friends. I don't want tv to control my life, so when I miss an episode I download it. I've also been able to get into some new shows by downloading them. I had missed the first few eps and was able to get caught up.

This doesn't help some shows with ratings. For example, Stargate. I know a lot of people would just download the episodes due to the time they aired. That is how I usually watch it every week. Occasionally if I was home and remembered it was on I would watch it on tv.

Some networks have learned to embrace the internet. Others need to follow.

I beg to differ, sir! (2, Insightful)

Weaselmancer (533834) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381080)

8 percent (six million households) downloaded at least one digital video file (10MB or larger) from a P2P service for free in the third quarter of 2006.

Free? Nonsense! I have to pay my ISP every month!

Nyuk nyuk nyuk!

Piracy count * 0 legal sales? (1)

noidentity (188756) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381118)

So the $0 of piracy is outstripping (hah) legal sales? I guess n * 0 > 0 for large values of n...

ZOMG! Fair Use? (1)

kimvette (919543) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381124)

Wow, people using the Internet to download TV episodes they missed, i.e., timeshifting, which is allowed by the Fair Use clause? and YET while users have been doing this for several years now, DVDs still sell? What's next, they'll discover that people will borrow books and videos from libraries *gasp* for FREE, while still buying their own copies of the videos and books from borders or amazon or another store? OH NOES!

Re:ZOMG! Fair Use? (2, Informative)

DragonWriter (970822) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381198)

Wow, people using the Internet to download TV episodes they missed, i.e., timeshifting, which is allowed by the Fair Use clause?


Downloading TV episodes you "missed" is not timeshifting as was ruled fair use under Betamax.

Receiving it through the regular broadcast means and recording it yourself is timeshifting. Getting a copy from someone else who recorded it, edited it from the format it was broadcast (say, by removing commercials) and made it available to you is something completely different.

Skeptical of all these "reports" (1)

chia_monkey (593501) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381164)

Ya know, I'm pretty skeptical of all these reports that show how downloading this and that has eaten away at video sales, CD sales, etc. Given the exact same set of data, executives on both sides of the argument could support whatever claim they were making...that downloads are helping sales, that downloads lead to future in-store sales, that downloads are hurting sales, etc. Taken a step further, there are infinite numbers of ways to collect this data, once again giving a bias to whichever argument you want to support. Let's not forget about that fine Forrester researcher who showed how iTMS sales were down over 60% based on his research of credit card sales only.

Execs need to face the fact we're in a new era now. They should be working on ways to support the sales of their movies/shows by providing means for the fans to watch them in every possible medium. Why do people download shows? Because a) they can't find the DVDs of shows they want yet, b) it's too damn expensive to buy a DVD especially if they want to simply check out the show before making the decision...and of course the obvious "I want it now and don't want to pay for it" reason. Still, given the choice, I'm sure millions of people would gladly pay for a legal, uncorrupted, virus free episode of their show if it was actually available to them. The studios are so intent in STOPPING illegal downloads that they don't bother looking at why people are doing it in the first place...all when they could be providing yet another revenue stream for their business simply by providing a new way to get to their content.

Makes sense to me (1)

Orange Crush (934731) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381174)

The largest target continues to be adult oriented content and TV shows, with only an estimated 5 percent being mainstream movie content.

Most TV shows are broadcast to a particular region at whatever time and day, then the networks like to arbitrarily rearrange schedules, preempt, etc. It's no wonder that DVRs and downloading are so popular. The moral issue gets hazier to me too--is downloading a TV show really any worse than taping/DVRing it? Am I "stealing" from the advertisers that paid to put in commercials that I fast-forward or don't even see in certain cases? What about watching the show live, ads and all, but not purchasing anything from the advertisers? I'd be perfectly happy paying $2/episode on iTunes and ditching cable--I'd probably save quite a bit of money. I imagine the forthcoming iTV will streamline this and let me order such shows & movies just like on-demand services from the cable company.

I hope the industry gets the hint--customers are already doing this in large numbers, there's already a market. Rather than take the usual response of "We must stop them all AT ONCE!!" monetize it. Put every darn show you produce on iTunes the second it's first broadcast.

Even if more video stores carried porn (1)

fotbr (855184) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381190)

How many would carry various fetish videos, and how many people want to be seen renting or buying such videos?

Compare that number with the people that actually do watch such videos.

A) I'd suspect that people would find most fetishes are fairly common
B) People still wouldn't want to be seen renting it.

Well no Sh*t (1)

ShimmyShimmy (692324) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381228)

compared to legal video sales. The largest target continues to be adult oriented content and TV shows,

Pirated TV shows, eh? Anyone surprised? It's the content provider's fault, and its their problem. No sympathy here. The reason it's pirated so much is that there's no viable alternative. VERY few shows, except a few tokens available on iTunes (The Office, etc), can't be bought legally until the season finishes and the DVD comes out. If it comes out. Months later.
So let's say the DVDs come out. Most shows are $40 a season!! The few episodes available for download cost a whopping $1.99. So however I buy it, chances are, I'm looking at $2 per episode, for something I'm probably only going to watch once. What a ripoff! I mean, I really like Lost, but once you find out what happens in the end, there really isn't much value in rewatching it (IMO). Therefore, it's not quite comparable in value to me purchasing one of my favorite movies on DVD that I'll likely watch over and over again. Sure I could rent it, but that's kind of a pain in the ass [usatoday.com] . And that doesn't even address technical issues.
I buy my favorite [allofmp3.com] music [allofmp3.com] online, I can buy it in a format that doesn't suck. With mp3, it Plays for Sure (tm) on my iPod, or God forbid off-brand mp3 player. Let's say I decide to buck up for a DVD of one of my favorite TV Shows [amazon.com] . Now I have to deal with DVD player region crap. Can I just put it on my PSP [youtube.com] /iPod Video, etc? Apparently not [techdirt.com] . That seems to be illegal under the DMCA. Well, maybe if I pay extra money for it [eff.org] at the time of purchase. Sounds like a crappy deal to me.

So let's recap. I'm a (relatively) honest consumer looking to watch my favorite show because I missed it on TV. It's overpriced, I have to wait as long as months to get it, it's overpriced, I'm probably only going to watch it once, it's overpriced, it comes in a crappy format, and I can't copy it (legally), and I can't put it on my mobile device. Piracy to the rescue! Any questions?

10MB = serious compression (1)

flyingfsck (986395) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381286)

How the hell does anyone compress a movie down to 10MB? A free trailer can be 10MB and downloading a free trailer isn't piracy, it is advertisement. Stupid idiots.

Displacing sales? (1)

bigberk (547360) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381314)

The leap that the media industry makes is that these "downloads" are DISPLACING sales (zero evidence of this). I think that's bogus. For several years now I have neither bought nor downloaded audio music. If I stopped being able to find movies on torrents tomorrow, I guarantee you I would not go and buy the DVDs. I might go and rent them from my local small store for $2, but I sure as hell won't buy them.

My best guess is, the industry is facing decreasing sales as a result of declining quality and excessive prices that are way out of line with what the market is willing to pay. So they are suffering declining sales, while downloads are of course increasing. They would like to blame the lack of sales on the downloads, but it's not a 100% transition from one to the other.

The Wild West (1)

xdxfp (992259) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381342)

According to the CCC, of the searches done for videos on P2P sites... * 63 percent of searches were for pornography * 10 percent of searches were for child pornography * 27 percent of searches were for copyrighted material It's a haven for illegal material of all kinds. Is P2P really worth it? There is no means for regulation of any kind, and a huge majority of the material is illegally downloaded. I think the torrent idea probably has less potential for abuse, and is more useful because corporations (like Novell) can provide links to their free software for no charge. Searching for Suse Linux in a non-torrent P2P application is not only likely to be more difficult to find, but also more likely to be a virus of some sort. The prices of music are ridiculously inflated, but people still deserve compensation for their work.

OMG - I admit I've done worse. (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381346)

Oh, you wouldn't believe the free* content I've downloaded and watched in the past month. Good grief there's probably enough to put me behind bars for years.

The amazing thing is that it's just so easy, and I even got a free* box to do it on! There's this website..I think it's okay to link it here [directv.com] that will give you the box that downloads literally tens of thousands of shows every month. It will store them so you can watch them over and over again. They'll even come to your house and set it up for you - in multiple rooms! They use wireless broadband (broadcast, whatever) to send you the files continuously, and you just tell it what you want to record. Unfuckingbelievable, I tell you, and it's all FREE*. Just $48 a month for all the normal free* stuff. Heck for a few bucks more a month you can get soft porn for free*, too (something called skinamax or some such).

Now, they also have some pay services - you can see the "newest" movies for $3-$5, and there's other porn for fee as well, but all the free* stuff. Wow. I hope the authorities don't find these guys out or I'm in big trouble.

*Free, as defined here, just as free goo-tube videos on Verizon phones, or as in monthly audio services. A bit of a stretch of the use of the word, but I'm certainly not paying per program or view as the industry would prefer.

NPD group is biased (5, Informative)

bigberk (547360) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381494)

Report is from NPD Group, well who are their clients [npd.com] ... EMI Music (a large RIAA member).

This is not an unbiased research firm, they are a marketing company and will serve the interests of their clients.

Probably just another arm of the RIAA/MPAA. I don't see how it would possibly serve this for-profit company's interests to say anything other than downloading is theft

Really? That's it? (1)

ischorr (657205) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381560)

So the MPAA is going crazy to restrict my ability to use my legally purchased content because (up to!) 8% of folks have downloaded a movie? 92+% of us are being impacted, through tax money spent on legal fees, disproportionately large lobbying/focus of congress and other agencies, political capital expended lobbying other countries for copyright/license restrictions, through draconian laws restricting our rights to fair use, because of that small of a base?

Come on.

I don't like the idea that folks are benefiting by being dishonest, when I'm shelling out bucks for stuff. That's one thing. But the idea that the MPAA et al (and companies like Apple, who are opportunistic benefactors) are going batshit to prevent me from watching video that I bought on iTunes on my D-link media center, or my DVDs on my iPod, etc because of a small fraction of folks just drives me nuts.

I understand that their bottom line is hit. No, I don't know where I'd draw the line (if it was 20% would I still be angry? 50%?). But they could have been expending all that effort driving new sales and profit by providing additional value, not by attempting to force us into their shaky business model...

I download video files (0, Offtopic)

Zabu (589690) | more than 7 years ago | (#17381580)

They are fan subs that only have a domestic distribution copyright, I guarantee this form of "Piracy" is jumbled into this BS.
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