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The Decline of the PS3 Grey Market

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the ground-floor dept.

PlayStation (Games) 274

Kotaku has a great piece up looking at trends over time in the PS3 grey market. Michael Fahey has been tracking the falling prices for Sony's new console, via sales on eBay and other markers. He called around to stores as well, getting a feel for the number of returns and current availability of the console. His conclusions: "As it turns out my gamer instincts and the threat of hordes of angry readers steered me clear of potential disaster. Aside from a couple brief spikes, there is no way I'd have been able to pull off the television, and I know damn well I would have waited for Christmas like so many others did, only to lose even more. The moral of this story? There's no such creature as a sure thing. The majority of eBay prospectors walked away from this experience with that lesson burned into the back of their brains. My suggestion for the future? If you want to gamble, go to Vegas. If you want to invest, try mutual funds. Leave the video game system buying to the gamers. We'll all be happier for it. "

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Wii on Ebay (3, Interesting)

LoverOfJoy (820058) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400198)

Now if only the prices would drop for the wii and people started returning them to stores so I could find one.

Re:Wii on Ebay (5, Interesting)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400262)

People aren't returning Wiis because a) people like them, and b) you can sell them for more than the refund.

Confession: I'm a failed PS3 scalper. I thought I struck gold when the store I was in announced they had three in stock and I got one (Dec 20). Yesterday I was able to return it (the PlayAlbatross 3 as I call it) for a full refund after price on resell sites plummeted to the point where it wouldn't be worth it. Also, amazon wouldn't take sales from new sellers, and craigslist had scalper hunters unjustly flagging scalpers.

Arbitrage isn't as risk-free as they like to make it sound.

Re:Wii on Ebay (3, Insightful)

RasputinAXP (12807) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400370)

You say "unjustly" as if scalping is a good thing.

Re:Wii on Ebay (3, Insightful)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400438)

You say "unjustly" as if scalping is a good thing.

I said "unjustly" in the sense that the PS3 listings that were being removed clearly met all of craigslist's rules.

But scalping is a good thing in that it makes it possible for people willing to pay more (rather than spend ages line) able to get one without getting line. If there were no scalpers, people would just hire placeholders. I don't think that would make anyone feel any better.

Re:Wii on Ebay (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17400600)

scalping is a good thing in that it makes it possible for people willing to pay more (rather than spend ages line) able to get one without getting line.

The thing is, the fact that the market tanked so quickly means that the vast majority of the people in line WERE the scalpers. Scalpers manufactured the long lines and shortages they tried to profit from, only in this case, the only people to sell to were the other scalpers that were waiting in line to get one because there was no real shortage of units, only the demand created by the scalpers.

Re:Wii on Ebay (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17401658)

Scalpers manufactured the long lines and shortages

This is the problem with Capitalism in the Long Run, at least with respect to it's ultimate purpose as a method of deciding how to distribute goods. Whether its scalpers interfering with the supply of tickets, Enron turning power plants off, farmers dumping their produce in the trash, grocers allowing it to rot on the shelves, or any of many other examples, Capitalism is increasingly being used as an excuse to destroy goods rather than distribute them.

And why not? As long as distribution of goods is tied to the money one can obtain for it, then artificially creating shortage through the systematic destruction of that good is an excellent idea. The only question is, how long can the law constrain it before anarchy reigns supreme, and people begin burning down houses to raise the value of their house, or destroying competitors' factories to cut competition and supply and raise the value of their own good?

Re:Wii on Ebay (2, Informative)

DragonWriter (970822) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400908)

I said "unjustly" in the sense that the PS3 listings that were being removed clearly met all of craigslist's rules.


Aside from the "Prohibited" category, which applies to violations of rules, the other ways in which things can be flagged on craigslist aren't supposed to be "rules violations", per se, as much as subjective judgments of appropriateness by users.

But scalping is a good thing in that it makes it possible for people willing to pay more (rather than spend ages line) able to get one without getting line. If there were no scalpers, people would just hire placeholders. I don't think that would make anyone feel any better.


Apparently, from your description, it would make many craiglist users, for one thing, feel better.

Re:Wii on Ebay (2, Funny)

JFMulder (59706) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400914)

But scalping is a good thing in that it makes it possible for people willing to pay more (rather than spend ages line) able to get one without getting line.

Actually, I disagree with this. It makes the weathly have a better chance than the regular folks. I thought the United States was the land of equal rights.

Re:Wii on Ebay (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17401140)

>I thought the United States was the land of equal rights.

It still is. You have no right to a PS3 anymore than you have a right to Dunkin' Donuts.

Re:Wii on Ebay (1)

a_nonamiss (743253) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401168)

Hahahahahahahaha.....

Equal Rights...

Thanks for the laugh. The wealthy in the US have always had more rights than the poor. Sorry to say it, but it's true. They get better jobs, have access to better schools, have more opportunities. Yeah, everyone's got a story about a poor inner city youth that worked hard, stayed out of trouble and went on to be CEO of a fortune 500 company, but for every one of those, I could find 10,000 stories about a poor inner city youth that went on do jail or was shot to death before his 18th birthday.

Oh, and they don't have to stand in line for video game systems. :)

Re:Wii on Ebay (1)

brouski (827510) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401934)

Oh, and they don't have to stand in line for video game systems. :)

Tell that to John Edwards.

Re:Wii on Ebay (3, Insightful)

Volante3192 (953645) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401256)

That would be socialism. This is capitalism, and wealth is seperate from rights.

Re:Wii on Ebay (2, Insightful)

supabeast! (84658) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401612)

It makes the weathly have a better chance than the regular folks.

What's wrong with that? If the wealthy lived the same lives as the lower classes, what would incentvize the lower classes to be more productive? I don't have a Wii because some loser sat around Best Buy all night waiting to buy me one. I have a Wii because a hardworking attorney busted his butt to earn a salary that allowed him to spend less time buying one on eBay than it would have taken just to drive to the nearest Best Buy. Exceptional people deserve to be rewarded for their talent, intelligence, and efforts, not brought down to the level of people who toil at menial work and still expect easy access to everything they want.

Re:Wii on Ebay (1)

RasputinAXP (12807) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401196)

I said "unjustly" in the sense that the PS3 listings that were being removed clearly met all of craigslist's rules.

You said "unjustly" because you think it isn't fair that you didn't get the profit you were looking for. Market tanked, and your outlet of last resort rejected you.

At least you got your money back.

Re:Wii on Ebay (0, Flamebait)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401370)

You said "unjustly" because you think it isn't fair that you didn't get the profit you were looking for

No, asshole, I think it's *unfortunate*, not unfair. The unjust part was people flagging my craigslist listing because they didn't like it, rather than because it didn't meet the TOS.

I respect anyone's right not to bid on my products.

Market tanked, and your outlet of last resort rejected you. At least you got your money back.

Well, it seems my last resort didn't quite reject me, now, did it?

Re:Wii on Ebay (1)

ir (104) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400694)

Don't like it? Don't buy it. You don't have a right to tell people what they can buy/sell.

Re:Wii on Ebay (1)

0xdeadbeef (28836) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400920)

Don't like it? Don't buy it. You don't have a right to tell people what they can buy/sell.

Actually, I do, as does everyone else. It is a right the owners and participants of Craigslist exercised when they removed the scalpers' posts.

Re:Wii on Ebay (2)

Average_Joe_Sixpack (534373) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400632)

Confession: I'm a failed PS3 scalper. I thought I struck gold when the store I was in announced they had three in stock and I got one (Dec 20).

Well, its actually a good lesson in investing and gambling ... no such thing as a sure thing.

Sounds like a sure thing to me. (2, Insightful)

GodInHell (258915) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400840)

Well, its actually a good lesson in investing and gambling ... no such thing as a sure thing.
So.. let me get this straight he (1) made an investment of 600$ +/- (2) attempted to capitalize on his investment, but failed and then (3) got a full refund.

Where is the risk in that again?

-GiH

Re:Sounds like a sure thing to me. (1, Insightful)

Average_Joe_Sixpack (534373) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401108)

Where is the risk in that again?

Well in this case he wound up not being compensated for his time (which of course is a concern in investing). But in general I was referring to the concept of betting on a sure thing.

Re:Sounds like a sure thing to me. (0, Troll)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401124)

I didn't get a refund on the ebay/local paper listing costs. Further, I could have found a buyer, who then issued a chargeback that paypal might screw me on.

But don't worry -- I have 50 times the retail price of a PS3 in a diversified array of index funds, taking advantage of the favorable tax-free and tax-deferred accounts, so I think I've got my investing in order...

Re:Sounds like a sure thing to me. (5, Funny)

poot_rootbeer (188613) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401270)

But don't worry -- I have 50 times the retail price of a PS3 in a diversified array of index funds, taking advantage of the favorable tax-free and tax-deferred accounts, so I think I've got my investing in order...

Yeah, but how long is your dick? That's what you're actually trying to inform us all of, no?

Re:Sounds like a sure thing to me. (1)

Ahnteis (746045) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401428)

>>But don't worry -- I have 50 times the retail price of a PS3

Sweet -- you can afford a new car when you retire. :P

Re:Wii on Ebay (1)

mgabrys_sf (951552) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400698)

re:"and craigslist had scalper hunters unjustly flagging scalpers"

Uh - you were scalping and they didn't permit that. How was that "unjust"? I find it highly just. For the rest of you - go inform the police in advance when you sell tickets in front of the ballpark and complain to the arresting officer later.

Re:Wii on Ebay (1)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400790)

Craigslist doesn't prohibit scalping.

Here [craigslist.org] is the prohibited items list.

Here [craigslist.org] is the conduct section of the TOS.

Where does it prohibit scalping? Nowhere.

Rather, many craiglist *users* take it upon themselves to get marked-up items removed through flagging.

Re:Wii on Ebay (1)

Too Many Secrets (449095) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401468)

Maybe you should read the FAQ [craigslist.org] .

Pay attention to the two questions at the bottom.

The FAQ is maintained by CL employees, therefore it's "official".

Re:Wii on Ebay (1)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401484)

"please do not" is not the same as "prohibited". Note that it specifically says that they are removed *merely* because some people like to flag them.

Re:Wii on Ebay (1)

Too Many Secrets (449095) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401542)

Except CL is all about "please do not" and "please do". That's the whole point. It's a community, not a meat market.

Communal Mores (1)

Omestes (471991) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401794)

So a community of people decided that your behavior was unacceptable to their community standards? I fail to see anything unjust about that, in fact it gives me some deal of respect for the atmosphere of Craigslist. Next your going to complain that /. allows you to mod down trolls, since inflicting a community standard is unjust. There are more than one set of laws, don't you know, the codified ones, and a vaster collection of norms, mores, and values that vary from community to community, and are enforced more subtly and more forcibly than codified law. Thats Soc101 speaking, nothing too brilliant.

Communities self-regulate, and if Craigslist decided to buck the will of their community for the good of scalping, I'm sure they'd lose a large portion of their users.

Re:Wii on Ebay (1)

caffeinatedOnline (926067) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401048)

I live in AZ, where there are no scalper laws... heck, I have seen police direct traffic around cars that have stopped to buy tickets from a scalper!

Re:Wii on Ebay (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17400810)

The fact you failed and wasted your time as well as tied up your money gives me great pleasure.

I have been tempted to make a fake ebay account just to win PS3 auctions and never pay.

Greed should never be rewarded. I hope ill will befalls you in the future.

Re:Wii on Ebay (1)

nuzak (959558) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401058)

> and craigslist had scalper hunters unjustly flagging scalpers.

You bought it with the express purpose of taking advantage of the short supply to get a markup. Whether or not you think scalping is just capitalism at work, what part of this doesn't make you a scalper? Craigslist looks down on scalpers, which is also their choice in a free market.

Re:Wii on Ebay (2, Informative)

the dark hero (971268) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400304)

...or the DS which is said to be grossly back-ordered till late january. :(

DS at Walmart :D (1)

Lord of Hyphens (975895) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401800)

Don't know about you, but I managed to pick up a DS Lite (White) 4 days before Christmas from Walmart for the list price. There were 8 of them when I walked in, and nobody seemed to be hounding the units. I honestly don't think they were backordered, just coming out at a trickle. Don't get me started on the Wiimotes, which I've been hunting down without much success since launch.

And hot damn, this thing is fun.

Re:Wii on Ebay (1)

Cyraan (840132) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400594)

I was actually scared with how easy it was to find one, kept thinking something had to go wrong, comet slamming into my car on the way back home maybe. After a mere day and a half of calling around, I found a Super Target that had some in stock, when I got there, there were at least 4 or 5 still in the case, no lines, rushing or anything. If you haven't already, you may want to try calling your local Target(s) if there are any around, they've apparently been getting random shipments in the last few days. If not, Wii Seeker [ps3seeker.com] has every Best Buy in my area pegged to be having at least 10+ per store on the 31st, dunno about elsewhere, heard some people say it was the same for them.

Re:Wii on Ebay (1)

freeweed (309734) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400738)

Wii shortages are finally starting to slack off, although it's very much a regional thing. I'm hearing more and more stories of available Wiis in some parts of the world. Yet, here we're still seeing 5am lineups every time a new shipment comes in.

10 per store? Ha! We had over 100 people lined up at the local Best Buy the last time a shipment came in.

The popularity of this thing continues to surprise, and quite frankly, scare me. I'm just happy I found a 2nd controller by fluke, as stores here are still sold out of all accessories 5 weeks after release. I've never seen anything like this in 30+ years of console gaming.

I can confirm part of the posted story though - 3 times in the past couple of weeks, while checking for Wii-related goodness, I've been offered a PS3. They'll be sitting on store shelves everywhere by January at this rate.

Re:Wii on Ebay (1)

Kelbear (870538) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401018)

Definitely unavailable here. In those 3am lineups uou only see the 30-odd people come morning because people find out how many units are available.

What we miss is all the people who came by between 3am-7/8am to get into line only to find that they're already too late and go home. This was the last pre-christmas shipment.

I don't think it'll be possible to buy a Wii through walk-ins in my area(upstate NJ) till at least February.

Re:Wii on Ebay (1)

sporadic (110921) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401130)

Wii's should be pretty easy to find, try Target. I tried to find one before Christmas for my girlfriend's 16 year old daughter, none of the retail stores have one (GameStop, Target, Circuit City, BestBuy, etc.) and I refuse to pay eBay or Craig's List extortion prices. So I ended up making up an "I.O.U. a Wii" certificate for her instead. She got the new Zelda for her GC so she had a new game to play. Next day we stopped by Target (in Oregon) and they had plenty in stock. We were there at 2:30pm and they still had 4 on the shelf. Paid $249.99 for a Wii, no camping, no extortion, and she was happy as can be on the 26th. :)

I still love my PS2 though, even if I don't play games often. God of War is great for stress relief, Kratos kicks butt!

Anyway, Wii's should be a lot easier to find in retail stores now.

Sporadic

Re:Wii on Ebay (1)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401898)

Craig's List extortion prices.

Sounds like someone else didn't [slashdot.org] get [slashdot.org] the [slashdot.org] memo [slashdot.org] either [craigslist.org] .

exaggerated (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17400318)

a 100 dollar profit is still a profit, this article makes it seem like these people are losing money on the system

Re:exaggerated (1)

mgabrys_sf (951552) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400386)

Well, I know a few ebay postings where the sellers were grousing on having to "re-post" the system for sale. So yes, they're getting hit with the cost of putting the post on eBay in addition to the system. If they withdraw it and never sell it - they took a bigger loss, and one that's not recoupable at the retailer-return level. Karma - gotta love it.

Re:exaggerated (2, Informative)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400388)

But $100 is not the profit. It's the net over retail + sales tax. Figure in listing costs, risk (of scammers, paypal disputes), the fact that you have to front a big chunk of capital, and the time you'll have to put in (listing, taking pictures, shipping), and it's a losing proposition.

Re:exaggerated (2, Interesting)

Guppy06 (410832) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400658)

"a 100 dollar profit is still a profit, this article makes it seem like these people are losing money on the system"

Even assuming they get to pocket all that $100 after eBay fees and the like, making that $100 required an investment of both $600 as well as a great deal of time and effort (standing in line, preparing the auction, relisting and revising the auction, etc.) that, when all is said and done, isn't looking all that much better than some minimum wage job. I can make $100 in one night delivering pizza, and it doesn't cost me $600 to do it.

Re:exaggerated (1)

Harlockjds (463986) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401262)

but a 100$ profit is laughable, esp if they had to spend any time at all to get said system.

Some people prob made less than minimum wage for their time camping for the system, posting it on ebay, dealing with prank bidders and shipping said unit.

Re:exaggerated (1)

safiel (1016237) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401304)

Ebay fees are actually pretty high, especially on an expensive item like this. You're looking at about $25 in ebay fees (5.25% of the initial $25.00 ($1.31), plus 3.00% of the remaining + initial listing price). If the person pays through paypal (depending on where the money is comming from) you are probably looking at another $24 in paypal fees (1.9% to 2.9% + $0.30 for non-credit cards). Basically there goes half your profit.

Re:exaggerated (1)

2nd Post! (213333) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401720)

If you earn $20 an hour, 5 hours of work nets you $100 in profit.

If it took you 6 hours standing in line to get a PS3, you actually lost money because you spent more time to earn the same amount of money.

What is worse is if you spent 16 hours in line, put it online, and waited 3 days to make $100. You just, essentially, earned yourself $1 an hour.

You can make more money buy taking the $900 you spent on the console, buying say TM stock or AAPL stock or some other "guaranteed" win in the next year and just letting the money grow. Apple, for example, if bought earlier this year at $60, now worth $85, would have given you $25 per share growth or $225 profit at no effort.

good article (3, Interesting)

mgabrys_sf (951552) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400350)

I liked the disclaimers on hard-numbers etc, but it did give an idea of what the retail action is as well as the charting of prices. For those who want to wait until prices fall on the PS3, I suggest checking the price curves on the PS2. Here's a hint: They didn't move for over a year. You've got a long - LONG wait. Sony after taking a loss on intitial units will take the profits on the hardware as long as they can when they emerge.

Still - cheaper than the Atari 2600 / VCS on an inflation adjusted dollar bla bla bla. All I know is it can knock 4000 dollars worth of computers I have sitting in front of me out of the ballpark graphicswise. Once some decent games emerge I'll be heading to the retailer myself to get one. Probably around the time I finish Zelda for the Wii (geez it's huge).

Re:good article (1, Redundant)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400512)

For those who want to wait until prices fall on the PS3, I suggest checking the price curves on the PS2. Here's a hint: They didn't move for over a year.

If I were going to buy a PS3 - which I am not, because I am boycotting Sony and making sure to tell everyone why (more on this later) - then I would be happy to wait a year, so some good games could come out for the system.

I already have a PS2, like practically every other gamer in America, so the PS2 games aren't any kind of attraction.

Re:good article (1)

jonnythan (79727) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400646)

"All I know is it can knock 4000 dollars worth of computers I have sitting in front of me out of the ballpark graphicswise."

Does that $4000 computer have a $3300 case?

It's trivial to build a $1000 gaming computer that is significantly better than a PS3. Get an 8800GTS, a cheap Core Duo processor and mobo, 2GB of RAM, and a cheapo 160GB hard drive and you're in business.

Re:good article (1)

sgt.greywar (1039430) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400714)

There is no use trying to give facts to fanbois. All they hear is someone failing to echo that "PS3 roxxors OMG" and they just start foaming at the mouth.

Re:good article (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17400814)

Look closer jonnythan, he poster said "4000 worth of computers", meaning more than one computer. Probably has 20 to 40 el cheapo dells, all of which have the power of a Pixelation Station 2. ;)

Re:good article (1)

MBGMorden (803437) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401278)

Well he did say "$4000 worth computers".

Perhaps that $4000 worth encompasses 15 different systems, none of which can best the PS3? ? ? No?

Re:good article (1)

xero314 (722674) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401348)

I'm not going to try and say the PS3 is the the most powerful machine on the planet or anything like that, but it is still a better deal, cost to power ratio, than a PC.
It's trivial to build a $1000 gaming computer that is significantly better than a PS3. Get an 8800GTS, a cheap Core Duo processor and mobo, 2GB of RAM, and a cheapo 160GB hard drive and you're in business.
It is trivial if you are not trying to build a comparable machine. Taking from your example and making it even comparable you end up getting a far more expensive machine than you are talking about. You can't use a "cheap Core Duo" since you are looking to compete with a multi core 3.2 ghz processor (hard to get an exact comparison) so go with a 3.2 Ghz Core 2 Extreme which will run around $950, tack on atleast another $200 (you would probably end up higher for a decent board) for the mother board and another $100 for a case and cooling system (I'm being generous here). Now add $200 or more for video (the closest thing I could find was a geforce 7900 128m which is clocked 50mhz less than the PS3s). So at this point you are looking at over $1500 (with me saving you over $300 on the video card) and we haven't even touch on input, storage, memory or drives (the $750 in blu-ray drive).

In the end I guess it depends on what you mean by "significantly better." Your set up does include a graphics processor that can handle higher resolutions as well as more polygons, mappings and transformations, but has a siginificantly slower CPU, which is important for Physics, AI and other game mechanics. Your set up also includes no way to play any games on it, let alone actualy getting the games there. These little things (Keyboard, mouse, Other controlle, Network adapter (wired and wireless), High density Media Drive) all add up to significantly more money that you think.

Re:good article (1)

joshetc (955226) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401816)

PCs can be overclocked. You can easily get any core2duos to clock higher than the extreme (mine was ~$300 for the e6600, cheaper now I think) it clocks at 3.3 on stock air and barely over stock volts.

Not to mention how many options you have as far as operating systems and other applications. Anything you can do on a PS3 can be done on a core2duo + 8800GS + 2gb ram homebrew rig. Not the other way around though.

Re:good article (1, Insightful)

Manmademan (952354) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401508)

It's trivial to build a $1000 gaming computer that is significantly better than a PS3. Get an 8800GTS, a cheap Core Duo processor and mobo, 2GB of RAM, and a cheapo 160GB hard drive and you're in business.

not to turn this into a PC vs. Console debate, but even IF you put all that together, you will have a grand total of zero games designed to take advantage of the strength of your system. (and of course, zero ability to play blu-ray films, but let's not go there right now)

in contrast, every game released on the Ps3 is designed to take full advantage (or as much as possible) of it's CPU and processor. To dumb it down a bit, The Ps2 is pumping out games like God of War, FFXII, and Gran Turismo 4 on a system consisting of a 300mhz processor with 32 megs of ram. Think you could get those results on a PC with even double those hardware specs? Think again. PC vs. Console hardware is not a 1/1 comparison.

Re:good article (1)

poot_rootbeer (188613) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401536)

It's trivial to build a $1000 gaming computer that is significantly better than a PS3.

The hardware may have "significantly" better specs, but the software running on it isn't going to be significantly better.

Console software still has a lot more potential for optimization than general-purpose computer software, due to the much smaller number of hardware configurations to target. A PC game has to support hundreds of combinations of CPU, GPU, sound card, etc. -- the only way to do that is to abstract everything behind common APIs and code to those. It works, broadly, but odds are good the full potential of any given hardware combination will never be used.

A console game only has to support the one console it is compiled for, thus routines can be highly optimized for the specific hardware known to be in the console. Even titles written for multiple platforms with substantial hardware differences can be optimized at compile time rather than runtime, maintaining the potential for better performance.

Re:good article (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17400708)

"All I know is it can knock 4000 dollars worth of computers I have sitting in front of me out of the ballpark graphicswise."

That shouldn't be so, unless you spent those 4000 dollars several years ago. A $4000 PC nowadays has two graphics cards, each of which is a generation ahead of the one in the PS3. It also has 8 times as much system RAM and three times the video RAM (per card). It can display higher quality graphics than the PS3, and at higher resolutions.
If tech specs don't tell you then compare the two yourself. On the same screen a modern high-end PC should easily produce better looking graphics than Resistance or Motorstorm.

Not that I'm seriously suggesting that spending $4000 on a game box is a good idea. It's crazy. Even $600 or $400 is a hell of a lot for a game system. My favourite console at the moment is the DS. I'm writing this post because you're apparently misinformed.

Re:good article (1)

huckda (398277) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400824)

The Atari 2600 had better games too!

Re:good article (3, Informative)

Pluvius (734915) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401100)

Two reasons why the PS3 won't be like the PS2 in this regard:

1. $300 for the PS2 was thought of as a bit expensive. $600 for the PS3 is thought of as completely ridiculous. Sony's not going to be able to make money on the PS3 if no one is buying it.

2. While the PS2 was slightly expensive for a whole load of reasons, about a third of the cost of the PS3 is in one component, the BluRay drive. This is a new technology and like all new technologies, it will drop in cost very rapidly.

It's true that the price drop likely won't come until the next holiday season, but that's because of the way electronics sales work, not because Sony wants to hold off on it. And when it does come, it will likely be quite large.

Rob

Trying to get a Wii been fun... (4, Funny)

creimer (824291) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400360)

Last week Amazon had randomly selected interested people to buy a Wii and the odds of getting one was listed. Getting a Wii was 28 to 1. Getting hemorrhoids was 25 to 1. At that point, I wasn't getting a Wii since I knew what I would get first. Now where's that Preparation H?

The Long Tail of speculation! (1)

dada21 (163177) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400396)

All speculation seems to exist with a long tail [criteo.com] -type graph. Initially, as supply is low and demand is high, the risk/reward ratio is low (meaning that the risk comes close to guaranteeing a reward). Yet over time, those numbers change and the risk/reward ratio goes up -- a high risk with a low reward. Quickly the profit curve falls -- very quickly if the items are easily supplied and demand is limited.

In this case, as in many speculative ventures, the tail portion of the curve can drop below the zero point, meaning profit is now a loss. Once you consider your time spent, shipping, gas, and other costs, that negative-profit point can come fairly quickly as suppy goes up and old demand is met.

I don't believe in speculating on anything once the masses know about it. Housing is an example -- so was the dotcom era. When the kid at Best Buy tells you that it is time to buy a second home/buy a tech stock/buy a PS3 in order to make money, the boom is over, and the last speculators are caught because no one wants to catch a falling knife.

I never would have gotten involved in this mess because you just HAVE to know that Sony wanted to make more of them so they could themselves make the profit. What I never understood about the PS3 is why Sony wouldn't have had more reason to sell them themselves in an auction style. It makes more sense to reap the profits for themselves -- I wonder how many Sony managers and upper-management were some of the initial eBay sellers?

Sidenote: I've always thought that bands should do the same for concert tickets in demand -- why sell them through ticketmaster when the band could auction the high-demand/limited-supply tickets off direct and reap the rewards.

Re:The Long Tail of speculation! (1)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400500)

What I never understood about the PS3 is why Sony wouldn't have had more reason to sell them themselves in an auction style.

Gamer backlash. Yeah, they'd be going only to people willing to pay that much, so in theory everyone's better off, but it would generate a lot of ill will among the broader gaming market. Unfounded in my opinion, but it would still cost them sales.

It makes more sense to reap the profits for themselves -- I wonder how many Sony managers and upper-management were some of the initial eBay sellers?

You mean sellers due to their position as Sony managers? Zero. eBay required a receipt picture. I doubt retailers would conspire with a Sony manager like that -- big penalties on both sides.

Re:The Long Tail of speculation! (3, Informative)

harryk (17509) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400812)

Well... just a couple of thoughts, but before I get into them, let me first say that I agree with you.

As a someone who was 'marginally' successful at scalping my 2 PS3's, I have to say that given it to do over, I would. I had a good time, and I cannot put a price tag on the 'event' itself. I still walked away with a profit.

and I to do not understand why Sony (and really anyone else) doesn't just sell the items themselves. But I believe it has alot to do with law than anything to do with business.

See, it kinda comes down to the same thing with automobiles, atleast here in the states. Technically speaking you, as a customer, cannot buy directly from the manufacturer, for nearly anything. In order for you to purchase item X, the seller has to pay certain fees within it's respective location, think sales-tax etc... . However, getting into a larger issue is that the states (individually) don't want you to be able to buy directly from the manufacturer, because it would cut out their 'inventory' taxes.

It really comes down to taxing the hell out of the product prior to the sale, as that is REALLY where they make there money. Continuing to take car dealerships as an example, the 'dealer' typically does not actually own the vehicle, oh they bought it from the manufacturer, but they don't have to report the buy until the end of the year. At which time any remaining vehicles (and sometimes this is done quarterly, but we'll continue to use annually) are then taxed an 'inventory' tax, and this is on EVERYTHING, not just the car, but parts as well. Its a ridiculous mess.

Now, thats for tangible items, talking about the concert is a little different.

Ticketmaster (again as example) has contracted with nearly every venue out there, to be the sole promoter of any event, which in addition to just about everything else, grants them the right to sale tickets. There use to be a competitor called Ticketron if I recall correctly that did basically the same thing, but at a much lower price. At any rate, a band's promotions and tour organizations are typically in cohoots with Ticketmaster as well, so it benefits everyone but the band who (as I understand it) get very little of the actual 'ticket cost' after all the fees have been added in.

There is nothing wrong with a band attempting to sale it's own tickets, but then it must also incur all marketing costs, venue rental (assuming one can be found that isn't under ticketmaster's thumb) etc... quite quickly becoming cost prohibitive.

Ticketmaster is a fucking rip-off! ... They charge you a 'convenience fee' for web-based or phone based orders, in addition to their already inflated ticket pricing. I hate ticketmaster

That's not quite right. (2, Informative)

CyberLord Seven (525173) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401526)

Manufacturers have the ability to sell to anyone they want. You are correct that if they do, they have to take on the role of tax-collector for the State; that's every state they sell product in. Not the kind of paperwork they really want to get involved with.

For instance, in California, If you are a manufacturer that does not sell to the public you get a tax exempt form that allows you to buy raw material without paying the state of California any tax on it. Without this document you pay the tax.

Another consideration is contract law. Sony has contracts with Best Buy, Circuit Shitty, Target, you name the company, to supply them with items. I suppose that each of those contracts has a clause that prohibits Sony from by-passing them and selling direct to the consumer. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that such a clause was standard.

Re:The Long Tail of speculation! (1)

rjhubs (929158) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401712)

The reason bands and sporting events don't sell their tickets in an auction type style is because they want to give a somewhat fair chance to everyone to attend the event, not just the rich. Because doing so would alienate a large portion of their fans. In the same way if sony sold their ps3's in auction format they would in fact be hurting their consumers by making them pay more. As we already know, selling consoles isn't about making a profit, it is about getting the consoles into enough people's hands so they can buy games.
While initial profit seems beneficial, losing customers hurts in the long run.

I can see why the PS3 is not in demand (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17400450)

I tried to tell my PS3 fanboi friends that the Wii is far more difficult to get and desired. They still don't believe me.

I think the reason being is that the Xbox and Playstation really aren't that impressive. Sure the graphics are upgraded, but that's about it. Same games all over again.

Where Nintendo kicked ass is with revolutionixing (if you can call it that) the gameplay experience. The Wiimote adds so much to the gaming experience that the refined graphics of the other two just seems like the expected step. I don't have any console, but if I had to pick one, I think I'd go for the Wii because it adds a whole new exciting aspect to the gaming experience.

Plus, it seems that Nintendo focuses their games around stories and concepts, rather than just flashy graphics the Xbox and Playstation duke it out over.

Re:I can see why the PS3 is not in demand (0)

mgabrys_sf (951552) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400740)

re:"Same games all over again."

Right. Mario, Zelda, Metroid. Nintendo never goes back to the well. Insightful fuck ain't-cha? How many dead horses are up at Nintendo of America in Redmond these days? The stench must be worse than a glue factory.

Re:I can see why the PS3 is not in demand (1)

Volante3192 (953645) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401074)

Mario, Zelda, Metroid. Nintendo never goes back to the well.

Because Super Mario Bros., Super Mario World, Mario 64 and Sunshine were all the exact same game.
Because Metroid, Super Metroid and Metroid: Prime were all the exact same game.
Because Legend of Zelda, Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess were all the exact same game.

And Halo and Halo 2 are unquestionably, inarguably, completely different.

Talk about dead horse beating...

Re:I can see why the PS3 is not in demand (1)

Pluvius (734915) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401274)

Super Mario Sunshine is similar enough to Super Mario 64 so as not to be considered revolutionary or innovative. Same thing with Twilight Princess or Wind Waker versus Ocarina of Time. As for Metroid Prime, it's a major change for the series but it still plays a lot like the other Metroid games, just with FPS elements added.

As for Halo, the GP never said that that was revolutionary or innovative (though it does have a remarkably good multiplayer mode from what I've heard). I don't know about him, but personally I don't think any of the three console manufacturers are particularly innovative when it comes to software any more. The problem is that while no one claims that Microsoft or Sony are innovative beyond the companies themselves, innovation is Nintendo's calling card.

Rob

Re:I can see why the PS3 is not in demand (1)

calbanese (169547) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400896)

I think the reason being is that the Xbox and Playstation really aren't that impressive. Sure the graphics are upgraded, but that's about it. Same games all over again.

That isn't why. Upgraded graphics have driven the entire console industry for twenty years. Look at the 2600 or NES. Are modern consoles that different? Controllers, TV, cartridges. Xbox/Xbox 360 added online multiplayer its been around in a less robust form since at least the Dreamcast. The MAJOR difference between 1980s consoles and 2000s consoles are the graphics. Thats why people get new consoles. When graphics become photorealistic and upgrades don't add anything to the visual experience, you can look to something other than graphics as driving sales. I don't think that merely upgrading graphics are the problem.

The Wiimote does add something new. Its not for me, but I can understand how people who don't want to figure out controller combinations would enjoy it, or those who just want something different and fun.

Plus, it seems that Nintendo focuses their games around stories and concepts, rather than just flashy graphics the Xbox and Playstation duke it out over.

Historically, thats not what sells consoles. If that were the case, Nintendo's focus on stories and concepts would have been reflected in sales of the N64 or Gamecube, both of which were crushed by consoles with arguably better looking games.

Re:I can see why the PS3 is not in demand (1)

iamhassi (659463) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401610)

"Upgraded graphics have driven the entire console industry for twenty years. Look at the 2600 or NES. Are modern consoles that different?"

Yes, they are. 2600 to NES was a revolutionary step forward in graphics. Super Mario Brothers is a leap forward in graphics compared to Pong. NES Zelda doesn't even compare to SNES Zelda: A Link to the Past. The SNES couldn't really muster 3D graphics (remember Star Fox?) so the best SNES games look like Pong compared to Playstation's Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy VIII or Gran Turismo 3, and there was another leap forward (although much smaller) when the Playstation 2 came out.

But that's where it stopped. Playstation 3 is not revolutionary compared to the Playstation 2. We're not talking going from a max of 4 colors per line and 2 channel mono sound [wikipedia.org] to 25 colors per line and 5 sound channels [wikipedia.org] like the revolutionary difference between the consoles you mentioned, the Atari 2600 and NES. This is not 3D vs 2D.

Comparing graphics on the Playstation 3 to the Playstation 2 is like choosing pretty graphics to prettier graphics. This is choosing which Victoria's Secret model looks best, and upgrading from the "ugly" Victoria Secret model to the most beautiful. Most gamers would be happy with any Victoria Secret model, so this explains why the PS3 isn't selling so well because gamers are happy with what they have, they're not willing to trade in several years of developing a relationship with a console to start over with a new one without some serious guarantees of a whole new "gaming" experience.

That's where the Wii succeeds. The Wii compared to the PS2 is like upgrading from the "ugly" Victoria Secret model to twins that are contortionist, head cheerleaders at their college and both named Miss Teen USA (I'm thinking if Lilia Stepanova [youtube.com] had a "equally skilled" twin). It gives us everything the PS2 did plus a whole new way to play games we've never experienced. That is why the Wii will, ultimately, sell far better than the PS3 ever will, and put Nintendo back on top.

My question is: what is better than twins that are contortionist, head cheerleaders at their college and both named Miss Teen USA?? Where do we go from here?

Re:I can see why the PS3 is not in demand (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17401798)

Come out of your cave, HD games with real surround sound are much nicer than the previous console offerings. If you cannot afford a decent screen, that's your problem. Both the xbox and PS2 games look very old and poor compared to the current consoles. Wii games look like they were the norm 5 years ago. Once the novelty wears off, you'll be picking a Wii up for about $100 by the end of the summer.

Re:I can see why the PS3 is not in demand (1, Troll)

Pluvius (734915) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400924)

No, the reason why there's not a ton of demand for the PS3 is because it costs $600 and doesn't have many games. Trust me when I say that despite ranting to the contrary, a lot of people are still impressed by the graphical difference between this generation and the last. Hell, I was impressed when I saw games like Gran Turismo HD on my brother's PS3, and I'm the exact opposite of a graphics whore.

As for the Wii, it hasn't revolutionized anything yet. From what I've heard, beyond being able to use it as a mouse (which is hardly innovative), the stuff that the Wiimote adds to games like Twilight Princess and Rayman Raving Rabbids is about as much as what the Sixaxis adds to Call of Duty 3. That is to say, not a whole lot. Sure, it's fun to wave your Wiimote around like a sword and see that translated on the screen, but it quickly becomes apparent as nothing more than a novelty. That's not to say that later games won't make ingenious use of the Wiimote, but it hasn't happened yet.

Rob

Re:I can see why the PS3 is not in demand (1)

nuzak (959558) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401184)

I've been playing a fabulous game called Okami on my PS2 lately. You literally paint shapes on the screen with a brush (ok, maybe not literally) to use your various powers. If any game called for a Wii port, that one is it. With something as direct as the Wiimote, you could even make the game less ridiculously easy by not letting the game pause while painting.

Sadly, Capcom axed Clover Studios, so it'll never happen. Guess that's what you get for making games that are actually interesting. As for Nintendo, it doesn't have Mario in it, so they'd probably never finance it either.

Re:I can see why the PS3 is not in demand (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17401780)

No. Jet Grid Radio/Jet Set Radio deserve a new sequel on the Wii.

Re:I can see why the PS3 is not in demand (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17401918)

That's just "gestures". Even frickin' Harry Potter PC game used that!

Re:I can see why the PS3 is not in demand (1)

EmperorKagato (689705) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401534)

"As for the Wii, it hasn't revolutionized anything yet. From what I've heard, beyond being able to use it as a mouse (which is hardly innovative), the stuff that the Wiimote adds to games like Twilight Princess and Rayman Raving Rabbids is about as much as what the Sixaxis adds to Call of Duty 3."

The sixaxis in Call of Duty 3 is a joke. The use of the Wiimote in Raving Rabids is quite interesting. Especially when you want to run you move your hands like you're actually running. Also in Excite Truck I can steer the vehicle regardless of how I tilt the controller on another axis. Unlike in Call of Duty 3 for the PS3 I would have to tilt it a certain way to control the vehicle.

"but it quickly becomes apparent as nothing more than a novelty"

Would you rather control your FPS games with a regular controller? When it is difficult to hit two targets seperated on two sides of the screen with a mouse or regular controller.

"That's not to say that later games won't make ingenious use of the Wiimote, but it hasn't happened yet."

Is this a copy and pasted argument? Did you know you can use the wiimote to:

1. Throw a pass
2. Aim and Shoot
3. Slash, Parry, Defend
4. Run like mad
5. Throw punches
6. Steer a Car

The Wiimote is your main controller of most Wii games. The sixaxis is only used to steer a vehicle(poorly) in Call of Duty.

Now which controller is a novelty?

Re:I can see why the PS3 is not in demand (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17401624)

When it is difficult to hit two targets seperated on two sides of the screen with a mouse or regular controller.


Tell you what. Get a pair of airsoft guns or something. If you can use them safely, you can do this with real guns as well. Set up two targets a decent distance away from you--15-25 feet. That seems short, but it's about right for many FPSs. You don't even need to separate them all that widely, but let's go ahead and separate them so they're at about the angle that opposite sides of your screen will be--all measured from where you're going to stand for the shot, of course.

Now, shoot both targets at once.

If you want, you can even try this experiment with one gun, shooting them in quick succession.

I don't think I have a problem with any FPS control scheme that makes this difficult.

Re:I can see why the PS3 is not in demand (1)

Pluvius (734915) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401856)

The sixaxis in Call of Duty 3 is a joke. The use of the Wiimote in Raving Rabids is quite interesting. Especially when you want to run you move your hands like you're actually running.

And when I want to punch someone in the face in Call of Duty 3, I move my hands like I'm actually punching someone in the face.

Also in Excite Truck I can steer the vehicle regardless of how I tilt the controller on another axis. Unlike in Call of Duty 3 for the PS3 I would have to tilt it a certain way to control the vehicle.

I agree, the tilt steering in Call of Duty 3 is awful. But it's not clear whether this is because of the controller or because of the game.

Would you rather control your FPS games with a regular controller?

I mentioned the mouse capability already. It's nice, but not innovative. I can use a USB mouse on the PS3, for example. The only problem there is needing a flat surface to rest it on.

When it is difficult to hit two targets seperated on two sides of the screen with a mouse

I have no more problem doing that with a mouse than I would with a Wiimote.

Did you know you can use the wiimote to:

1. Throw a pass
2. Aim and Shoot
3. Slash, Parry, Defend
4. Run like mad
5. Throw punches
6. Steer a Car


Yeah. So? Except for #2 (which again can be done by a mouse) and #6 (which can be done by the Sixaxis, and done much better by an actual gaming steering wheel, which the PS3 also supports), how do any of those add to the game in the way they're currently implemented? Throwing a pass, for example, does the exact same thing that pressing a pass button does. The only difference is a minor enhancement of immersion, which I already said is a novelty.

The sixaxis is only used to steer a vehicle(poorly) in Call of Duty.

Incorrect. The best usage of it is to hit people with your weapon. It's also used in several minigames.

Now which controller is a novelty?

Presently, both of them. The difference is that no one is saying that the Sixaxis is anything else.

Rob

Wait, "stories"??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17401844)

Nintendo focuses their games on stories? If by their games, you mean Zelda, then you have a point. But there is NO Nintendo game that gets by on its story. Their games are about gameplay, bottom-line.

So... (1)

Drakin020 (980931) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400630)

From the article it shows a price spike at 10/21 - 10/23 Why the spike? What was so special about those couple of days?

Re:So... (1)

DrEldarion (114072) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401456)

I don't think people were allowed to list preorders more than a month ahead of time. Since it was released on 11/17, that's just about the right time for them to be put up on eBay.

Re:So... (1)

poot_rootbeer (188613) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401758)

From the article it shows a price spike at 10/21 - 10/23 Why the spike? What was so special about those couple of days?

People buying them as Mole Day [moleday.org] gifts, no doubt...

Examples from previous posts: (1)

SuperStretchy (1018064) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400664)

Why would people continue to want a PS3 given the complete shortage of games [slashdot.org] for it. Personally, I like the PC. I can play any game previously released (Though some DOS games seem like they are in super turbo mode), and, more than likely, I can play console games too. Logitech's Input mapper program + emu + rom = trouble, but sometimes worth it. Case-in-point: FFX and FFXI (I think those were the ones a buddy of mine got to work)...

Re:Examples from previous posts: (1)

mgabrys_sf (951552) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400764)

Yes, emulation is wonderful. Until you want to play robotron with a keyboard at which point it's pure comedy gold baby.

Re:Examples from previous posts: (1)

SuperStretchy (1018064) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400886)

HAHAHA well thats why i made mention of the logitech mapper. I have actually gotten it set up so I can use a force feedback, wireless gamepad with mmos and counterstrike source. No more WASD cramps, but when I actually want to win, then I switch to wasd + mouse.

Re:Examples from previous posts: (1)

Doom bucket (888726) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400776)

I tried and failed to sell a PS3 for a profit last week. It sold for 750 dollars. That might sound nice, but I had included four games, which brought it to a retail price of 840 dollars. I also lost money because the shipping was four dollars more than I estimated, and paypal fees and the ebay listing ate into an additional 20 bucks.

I'm not a scalper, I bought the PS3 and decided I didn't want it. In the end though, I would have been happier if I had kept it, but my feedback would have taken a massive hit. Sadly, I don't want a Wii and my 360 is being repaired, so I'm pretty much screwed.

Re:Examples from previous posts: (1)

SuperStretchy (1018064) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400844)

Yikes. Not to mention the opportunity cost of waiting at a store (if thats what you did) when taking into consideration the many people who took off work for 2 days.

Re:Exemplary prior posts prove potential (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401066)

Why would people continue to want a PS3 given the complete shortage of games for it.

Not only that, but even the Wall Street Journal [wsj.com] , had a main fold front page story (in print) on how the Christmas shopping season was dissapointing, with the exception of the Nintendo Wii and HDTV sales.

And, in the G4 TV [g4tv.com] program, they have only given one 5 star rating for the entire PS3 lineup - the PSP is doing much better, of course.

Re:Examples from previous posts: (1)

EmperorKagato (689705) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401578)

They're waiting on MGS4 and FFXIII

From a retail standpoint... (3, Interesting)

borderpatrol (942564) | more than 7 years ago | (#17400766)

I work for a major electronics retailer, and we had originally sold our systems in bundles only for approx. $1200 each, with later bundles around the $900 range. We are getting approx. 10 of these bundles being returned a day. We started getting the majority of them after December 20th or so., which would be around the last day to ship from eBay. We are acepting these items back for return, but alot of the folks who bought them on the 17th are stuck with a $1200 store credit.

All the scalpers are mostly saying that "We didn't need it", "We got 2 for christmas", etc. One guy I talked to was honest and told me he bought it to flip on eBay, but the market fell out. Now he's waiting on a Wii to buy for himself.

We have lots of PS3s here at the store gathering dust (we got the largest shipment per store of any electronics retailer), people just aren't interested in them at all anymore.

Re:From a retail standpoint... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17401238)

You claim to be a store yet don't link to all these PS3 you have piled up? I smell bovine excrement!

Re:From a retail standpoint... (1)

Nf1nk (443791) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401562)

I believe it. I work at sears. We have recieved exactly 1 ps3. we we got the 20gig on monday, it was still there sitting in the glass case when I went home on wedsnday. I wouldn't be shocked if it is still there.

Re:From a retail standpoint... (1)

Mdentari (979766) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401914)

Yea...whatever man. Give me the store location and number and let me call. But you won't and you can't. Such typical fanboi (Read fanboi with the same contempt republican radio announcers use when they say 'liberal') manufacturing of the facts.

Same thing happened with XBox 360 (1, Informative)

Animats (122034) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401060)

Nice analysis. I've pointed out before that eBay prices on the PS3 were in a screaming dive within days of launch, but this uses enough data to really make that clear.

We went through this with the XBox 360, but with more speculators. People were trying to unload those things on eBay for months, finally at prices below retail.

The "secret reserve price" thing on eBay is a big part of the problem. That encourages overpriced items and wastes buyer time on auctions doomed to fail. Sellers like it, because they don't have to compete against each other on reserve price, but it probably reduces the number of successful transactions.

Re:Same thing happened with XBox 360 (3, Interesting)

0kComputer (872064) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401606)

We went through this with the XBox 360, but with more speculators. People were trying to unload those things on eBay for months, finally at prices below retail.

If I remember correctly the 360's were selling at a premium on e-bay well into the spring. I think that the point of this article is that we've barely passed X-Mas and the prices are already down around retail, which probably implies low demand. In other words, sony is screwed.

If you want to gamble, go to the stock market (1)

roskakori (447739) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401376)

From the article:
If you want to gamble, go to Vegas. If you want to invest, try mutual funds.
If you want to gamble and invest, try the stock market [wikipedia.org] . For example, Nintendo [cnn.com] has more than doubled its value within a year and keeps rising. For even more thrill consider buying stock options - if for instance you want to bet on the Sony [cnn.com] stock price going down, get some put options [wikipedia.org] . This is particular useful if you bet against the market and end up being right.

Pity new high profile consoles show up only about every five years. Good thing there are game developers that have highs and lows all the time, for example Electronic Arts [cnn.com] ...

Re:If you want to gamble, go to the stock market (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17401518)

For example, Nintendo has more than doubled its value within a year and keeps rising.

"Did you know that disco record sales were up 400% for the year ending 1976? If these trends continue... AAY!"

Tony Blair snags a PS/3 (1)

rlp (11898) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401662)

Kotaku also has an blurb on the Blair's picking up a PS/3 during their recent trip to Florida. The PS/3 won't be released in Europe for another three months.

Investing in consoles (1)

rlp (11898) | more than 7 years ago | (#17401808)

Right after the E3 gaming conference (where the buzz first got going for the Revolution / Wii) - Nintendo (ADR) shares were at $18. Today they are over $32. $600 invested in Nintendo after E3 would have netted you $416 profit (after commission). Without having to stand in line.

Disclaimer: I own stock in Nintendo. I also own a Wii (which I may get to play after my wife finishes 'Twilight Princess').
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