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Looking Beyond Vista To Fiji and Vienna

CowboyNeal posted more than 7 years ago | from the better-and-better dept.

600

Vinit wrote in with an article that describes Microsoft's strategy for future versions of Windows. It begins: "As we all know that Microsoft Vista was originally scheduled to be released in 2003, after two years of Windows XP, but it got delayed by over five years due to various reasons. Definitely, Vista is very very improved OS over the previous versions, but the delayed in the launch has cost Microsoft, billions of dollars. Now the question at the moment is, what exactly after Vista? Microsoft can't afford to wait another five years for an operating system. People are becoming more aware of the choices they have, and Linux is no longer a hobbyist OS, and that day isn't far away when it becomes simple enough to be a viable alternative to Windows. The competition is fierce. That is why, to stay at the top, Microsoft has planned a 'Vista R2', codenamed 'Fiji' which will be released some time in 2008. And after Fiji, there will be Windows 'Vienna'. Windows Fiji, will not be a totally different OS from Vista; but it will be an add-on. Whereas Vienna will be totally different from Vista."

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600 comments

Fiji (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17409756)

'Vista R2', codenamed 'Fiji' which will be released some time in 2008

Why not in Fiji?

Re:Fiji (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17409814)

Maybe I missed something, but I thought there was indication from Microsoft that this would be the *last* version of Windows?

Re:Fiji (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17409844)

Right, because when you have a product that essentially sells itself and has no real competitors, why would you want to keep releasing new versions that people will line up to pay for over and over again?

Re:Fiji (3, Interesting)

Anne Thwacks (531696) | more than 7 years ago | (#17409938)

Lest go for truth in advertising and call it "Windows Vapourware"

Re:Fiji (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17410038)

Wrong! Get it right, Vienna is *not* vaporware; it's sausageware! Sheesh, some people...

Except... (2, Funny)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | more than 7 years ago | (#17409788)

...by the time Fiji is available, our bones will have long turned to dust...

Re:Except... (1)

Maelwryth (982896) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410300)

Dear Customers, we at Microsoft regret to tell you that the release of Fiji will be delayed due to a small coup. Please be assured that, after we have finished this game of cricket, we will be releasing ahead of schedule.

Probably a very aptly named release :).

Re:Except... (1)

serber (574286) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410356)

Odd that you mention cricket - the start of the coup itself was delayed when the first deadline for the prime minister to agree to the demands of the Commodore passed, with the military and the police playing a game of rugby.

Downward spiral to continue (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17409792)

I'm expecting them call their next OS "innovation" since the brazen irony would be lost on the public. Can't Microsoft just fucking die?

Re:Downward spiral to continue (1)

OffTheLip (636691) | more than 7 years ago | (#17409964)

Not without inflicting majok dammage to US and international business. Regardless of how you feel about them as a company they are an economic force affecting jobs, pensions and service sectors.

Re:Downward spiral to continue (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17410228)

Not without inflicting majok dammage to US and international business. Regardless of how you feel about them as a company they are an economic force affecting jobs, pensions and service sectors.

Yes, this easy to use OS called Windows Vista will create $$$ McJobs doing license auditing and applying updates. Meanwhile as Microsoft dependent "service-sector" economies support a monopoly, other countries are going to be busy generating wealth.

See Apple for details (4, Interesting)

gilesjuk (604902) | more than 7 years ago | (#17409802)

Apple are progressively upgrading the OS having smaller releases. This is closer to the Linux way of working.

Once you get your basic design right you can gradually improve and alter things. This is where Microsoft failed, their security model was flawed, so with Vista they've fixed it (or so they say).

Re:See Apple for details (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17409954)

Apple are progressively upgrading the OS having smaller releases. This is closer to the Linux way of working.

True, however Microsoft are customer hostile and their copycat, commodity software is overpriced.


Once you get your basic design right you can gradually improve and alter things. This is where Microsoft failed, their security model was flawed, so with Vista they've fixed it (or so they say).

Windows is far from the pinnacle of OS design. Apple made the smart move switching to unix while Microsoft are still some way from reinventing that wheel.

Re:See Apple for details (5, Funny)

kfg (145172) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410070)

This is where Microsoft failed, their security model was flawed, so with Vista they've fixed it (or so they say).

Yeah, you used to be allowed full access to your own files and do with them as you please.

We'll have no more of that nonsense.

KFG

Re:See Apple for details (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17410086)

That's true, and a great thing, but at least with windows if you bought your OS anytime since 2001, you haven't had to lay out more money for the latest and greatest until now. 5 years isn't so bad. Apple should take a page from MS's book on how often to make upgrades cost money.

Geared for speach recognition (1, Interesting)

EraserMouseMan (847479) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410168)

Have you ever thought about how huge of a leap it would be for Windows to support multi-language speach recognition as a primary interface? Over 90% of the world's computer users use Windows. Think about how much money it requires to go through the painful learning process that's needed to develop a speach recognition engine that can handle the scope of languages Windows requires. And ease of use? For it to be able to handle not only hundreds of languages but hundreds of dialects and accents for each language really boggles the mind. If MS pulls this off with a success I'll be amazed.

Re:See Apple for details (1, Insightful)

Kamineko (851857) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410276)

> Apple are progressively upgrading the OS having smaller releases. This is closer to the Linux way of working.

All those upgrades and updates I've been downloading, and those two Service Packs, there... they've all been some kind of HORRIBLE HALUCCINATION?

Re:See Apple for details (1)

EXMSFT (935404) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410386)

Vista's delays had NOTHING to do with security changes, enhancements, or flaws in earlier versions.

The Big Question Is (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17409810)

The really big question for next year is: Will Vista be ready for desktop?

Five years? (3, Interesting)

eck011219 (851729) | more than 7 years ago | (#17409820)

How do they figure five years? 2003 to 2007, that's four years at best, not "over five years." If you include all of 2003 AND 2007, that gets you right up to five years (but that's not how it worked anyway).

Re:Five years? (0)

goodcow (654816) | more than 7 years ago | (#17409842)

XP came out Oct 2001.

Oct 2001 - Jan 2007 is 5+ years.

Re:Five years? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17409910)

Oct 2001 - Jan 2007 is 5+ years.

But the summary says:
As we all know that Microsoft Vista was originally scheduled to be released in 2003, after two years of Windows XP, but it got delayed by over five years due to various reasons.

If it was originally scheduled for release in 2003 then it has definitely not been delayed by over five years.

Re:Five years? (4, Informative)

johnw (3725) | more than 7 years ago | (#17409920)

But the article says it was delayed by 5+ years, not that it came out 5+ years after XP.

Perhaps what the author meant to say was that the intended 2 year interval between releases became 5+ years.

Re:Five years? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17409922)

The submitter used the term "delayed," which implies the time was measured from Vista's planned release date, not the latest release of Windows.

Re:Five years? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17409926)

5+ years between Windows releases, yes, but that's different to a 5+ year delay for Vista.

Re:Five years? (3, Funny)

kfg (145172) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410174)

How do they figure five years? 2003 to 2007, that's four years at best. . .

The author obviously lacks opposable thumbs:

"One, Two, Three, Four, more than Five"

KFG

New OS? I Think Not... (4, Insightful)

nbannerman (974715) | more than 7 years ago | (#17409828)

Ok, so from TFA: "One thing is for certain, Vienna won't be just an operating system, but a new generation in computing."

How, we all ask, will it achieve such wonders?

The answer: "Windows Fiji will feature a more powerful sidebar, Monaco, a music authoring tool similar to Apple's Garageband, default playback of HD-DVD, more advanced Speech Recognition, and new themes, icons, wallpapers, games, and minor tweaks to almost everything."

Mmmhmm. I can't be the only one sitting here thinking 'what a load of bull'. I mean, really, if I wanted to get this apparently 'new generation' of computing, I'd go out and buy a .Mac. Or, come to think of it, do what I've already done; use LiteStep and mod my current XP install.

Re:New OS? I Think Not... (2, Informative)

nbannerman (974715) | more than 7 years ago | (#17409858)

Oh, classic, I've got the new versions confused. My apologies... *facedesk*.

Windows Vienna will change the OS by not having a start bar or explorer interace, just the Sidebar.

Hang on a minute, I can do that now using Litestep. Oh, so they are the same then! ;)

New Generation? I Think So (2)

EraserMouseMan (847479) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410094)

One of the things I remember Gates talking about excitedly for the past 10 years is his R&D in Speach Recognition. He's been dreaming about the seamless and natural interaction of computers and humans for a long time. I wouldn't be surpised if Vienna really happened because it's the one thing Bill has poured his life and energy into for over a decade. Anybody who follows Gates knows that he has been serious about speach recognition for a long time.

Re:New Generation? I Think So (1)

cmowire (254489) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410210)

So? A lot of people have been really excited about natural language interfaces to computers in general... well... starting from Turing..... and has it happened yet?

Passion does not imply breakthroughs. Breakthroughs usually imply passion, tho. Implication is not an associative operation.

Bill Gates, Speech Recognition and Crediblity. (5, Interesting)

Erris (531066) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410232)

Anybody who follows Gates knows that he has been serious about speach (sic) recognition for a long time.

It's hard for anyone who does not "follow" the cult of Gates to take anything he says seriously. He's been promising the moon and stars for decades but has yet to deliver anything but mild UI modifications. Generally, his company writes down a wish list of competitor's features and promises to deliver them bigger and better in his "next" release. As the years roll by he drops all of the features until he's left with something like Vista, which offerst the user little beyond DRM madness and a UI upgrade, which he then invariably promotes as "revolutionary".

Despite all of that, I thought he liked to talk about handwriting recognition. You know, the tablet PC, that' he's promissed the world since the Apple Newton. Palm, OpenZarus and Xstroke all beat him to the punch and his tablet PC has yet to catch on.

He might as well claim his next OS will have AI and do "seemless" speech recognition. He won't loose much credibility that way. At this point, he's got so little to use, I'd sooner believe penis pill spam.

Re:New Generation? I Think So (4, Insightful)

nine-times (778537) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410292)

Yes, he's been crazy about speech recognition, and it makes a certain sort of sense. However, the idea that speech recognition alone will replace the keyboard interface shows a lack of imagination. Part of the reason we've stuck with keyboards for as long as we have is they're efficient. They're cheap, can operate easily in noisy areas, and allow for purposeful manipulation of text. If you're a good typist, keyboards can be faster and easier, too. And can you imagine trying to play Half-Life with a speech interface? Keyboards aren't going anywhere.

So what does that leave for speech? Maybe you can say, "launch microsoft word" and then, once it's launched, you start typing. Or you could say, "next song" and iTunes would switch to the next song instead of having to click on a button. Wowwie! And what happens when you're sitting at your computer, and you say something to your friend about "the next song in my playlist..." How does it know you don't want to go to the next song?

The problem is that having computers respond naturally to speech requires an awful lot of AI that we won't have anytime soon. Even if we do have that amount of AI in a PC someday, it's still not clear that a keyboard won't be preferable for many interactions. Of course, maybe once we have that level of AI, we won't be trying to type anything up anymore anyway. I'll say, "Computer, please write a letter to my mom." and the computer will just do it. "Computer, write me a slashdot post on this topic."

There are only two groups of people I'm aware of who think that it's a good idea speech recognition for the purpose of doing away with keyboards, and have really good text-to-speech to you so you won't have to read. Those two groups are "children" and "Bill Gates". The best major applications for these technologies are accessibility for the disabled and portable devices. That's pretty much it for the foreseeable future.

Re:New OS? I Think Not... (1, Insightful)

kfg (145172) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410222)

How, we all ask, will it achieve such wonders?

More chrome, bigger tailfins and silicon Double Ds on the squid.

KFG

Why did this even get posted? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17409838)

A illiterate intro based on a brief article from a random blog that doesn't quote any sources. That's what I call credibility.

Re:Why did this even get posted? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17410278)

*AN* illiterate intro. *AN*.

Windows: Generations (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17409856)

"While in Windows Vienna the current interface will be completely stripped, no more explorer shells, and taskbars. No start menu. Probably no toolbars, or menus and Speech Recognition will become a major input device. One thing is for certain, Vienna won't be just an operating system, but a new generation in computing."

Yeah, great...DragonNaturallyDOS.

Re:Windows: Generations (3, Insightful)

anagama (611277) | more than 7 years ago | (#17409972)

"While in Windows Vienna the current interface will be completely stripped ...
An interesting point because the only reason Linux is harder to use than Windows for most people, is because it is a bit different from Windows.

Re:Windows: Generations (1)

emurphy42 (631808) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410056)

Like Dilbert once pointed out, at least no one can come up to my non-speech-recognizing computer and say COMPUTER, DELETE FILE!

Official Name (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17409870)

A source at MS told me they're planning on releasing Fiji as Windows Me2.

Zing!

Summary: (2, Funny)

techmuse (160085) | more than 7 years ago | (#17409880)

Fiji: Microsoft gets an extension from the teacher to turn in its Vista homework late.

Vienna: Microsoft takes a philosophy class. Wonders why it did everything a certain way for the past 15 years. Gets high. Oooo...look at all the pretty colors and new interface paradigms.

Microsoft: *kicks dead horse* (2, Insightful)

joe_cot (1011355) | more than 7 years ago | (#17409884)

So after basically admitting that windows had jumped the shark [slashdot.org], they're still going to release "Fiji", ie a glorified service pack that you have to pay for. *sigh* maybe they'll be adding some of the features they scrapped in Vista, like WinFS.

On the plus side, at least Vista did ship with "improved shortcut support" [slashdot.org]. Gotta give Microsoft that.

Re:Microsoft: *kicks dead horse* (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17409998)

So after basically admitting that windows had jumped the shark, they're still going to release "Fiji", ie a glorified service pack that you have to pay for.


You'd think people would have gotten used to paying for glorified servicepacks. What glorified servicepack is OSX at now, 4th? 5th?

Re:Microsoft: *kicks dead horse* (4, Funny)

uhlume (597871) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410052)

...a glorified service pack that you have to pay for.

Yet another Apple innovation, appropriated by Microsoft. Have they no shame?

It's Windows 98 SE all over again. (4, Insightful)

FreonTrip (694097) | more than 7 years ago | (#17409902)

Witness the release of Vista, and then witness a re-release a couple of years later with bug fixes, feature improvements, security improvement rollups, and a few new (probably non-exclusive) applications rolled in to make the pill go down more sweetly. Everything old is made new again. Move along.

Re:It's Windows 98 SE all over again. (1)

DaveM753 (844913) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410010)

Exactly! They did the same thing with Windoze 95. And you could not upgrade the earlier version to the newer "b" version. (Remember "Windows 95b"?) So, if you want all the new bells and whistles, you have to purchase, AGAIN, the entire retail version. Will they do this with Vista? Knowing Microsoft's track record: yes.

How about the real content instead of a blog post. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17409916)

What? Does Taco get kickbacks on the ad revenue from blogs he kicks to the front page? The "article" is all of two paragraphs on a blog :(

Ahh, if one looks at the end of the blog, it points to where that guy got it from and lo and behold, another blog, but, in this case, precious content including details of each hypothetical version.

http://jameskyton.wordpress.com/2006/12/29/beyond- windows-vista-fiji-and-vienna [wordpress.com]

How much further can they really take their OS? (1)

linebackn (131821) | more than 7 years ago | (#17409930)

They can bury new versions of the OS in bells an whistles, but some of us will still be happily running Windows freakin 95 because it does what we need. I think there really isn't much more they can add to Windows that people actually need. Of course they currently have the advertising dollars and power to convince people otherwise.

Re:How much further can they really take their OS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17409980)

Wow, you're actually running Win95. You are the coolest!

Re:How much further can they really take their OS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17410016)

but some of us will still be happily running Windows freakin 95 because it does what we need. I think there really isn't much more they can add to Windows that people actually need.


Security updates.

Count me out... (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 7 years ago | (#17409936)

Whereas Vienna will be totally different from Vista.

Vista is weird enough. I can't see how Vienna can be any different.

Windows, vista (3, Funny)

Talonator (594765) | more than 7 years ago | (#17409940)

And I hear it's a good, operating system, but it has, some stunning, similarities to OS X. Also, the, author of the snippet, uses a few too, many, commas, and comes up, with wonderfully original, sentence, structures.

Re:Windows, vista (1)

mtec (572168) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410264)

Also, the, author of the snippet, uses a few too, many, commas, and comes up, with wonderfully original, sentence, structures.
Shatner!

Fabricated news (2, Insightful)

Toby The Economist (811138) | more than 7 years ago | (#17409968)

> Microsoft can't afford to wait another five years for an operating system.

Why not?

> The competition is fierce.

What competition?

Re:Fabricated news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17410080)

Yeah, I love the word "can't".

Aren't these people the same ones who were saying 5 years ago "Microsoft can't afford to wait five years for the successor to XP"?

Re:Fabricated news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17410186)

> Fabricated news

Fabricated by who ?

Who wrote this? (5, Funny)

glwtta (532858) | more than 7 years ago | (#17409970)

Definitely, Vista is very very improved OS over the previous versions, but the delayed in the launch has cost Microsoft, billions of dollars.

I'm not looking for Shakespeare here, but the submitter is what, eight?

Re:Who wrote this? (0, Redundant)

Umbrae (866097) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410156)

Good God, I thought I was the only one who noticed.

This has to be the worst written summary I've seen in years.

Re:Who wrote this? (5, Funny)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410282)

You two were the only ones that noticed. The rest of us have learned to skip straight from the headline to the comments by now.

Re:Who wrote this? (1)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410340)

You are aware that not everyone on /. is a native speaker of English, are you?

English, motherfucker; do you speak it?? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17410368)

Even Babblefish, could, translate better than, this if it, were completely broken on, a bad day.

Re:Who wrote this? (4, Interesting)

earnest murderer (888716) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410360)

Moreover, it's blog spam, and not just some excited reader. The author submitted it (which I don't have a problem with necessarily) but the article in question is more of a speed bump to the real content [wordpress.com]. Which is, funny enough another blog. Not just any blog, but a blog with a single post by one "James Kyton" who doesn't appear to have any profile on the internet (pseudonym).

While I have no reason to doubt either the blogger, or the uhm... other blogger. My bullshit detector is hovering at about '9'. It wouldn't be the first time someone sourced themselves in the pursuit of adsense dollars. Or just to lend themselves some credibility for that matter.

Re:Who wrote this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17410388)

Exactly my thoughts too.

SUBJECT (1)

riff420 (810435) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410000)

Who the fuck wrote this post, monkeys on typewriters? HOOK UP SOME GRAMMATICAL SKILZ0RS, BEEOTCH! I tried to read the article header on the front page of /., but I had to bring in a 14-year old myspace expert to translate the damn fine punctuation.

Ob Flowers For Algernon (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17410190)

But. punct!u,a(tion; is " fun!

New UI? (1)

ucblockhead (63650) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410004)

I don't want yet another goddamn "new generation of UI". I want someone to just make their goddamn UI consistent and bug free.

One of the most important facets of usability is consistency. If you don't want confused users, DON'T CHANGE EVERYTHING WITH EACH RELEASE.

From TFA (4, Interesting)

Rodness (168429) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410054)

Windows Fiji will feature a more powerful sidebar, Monaco, a music authoring tool similar to Apple's Garageband, default playback of HD-DVD, more advanced Speech Recognition, and new themes, icons, wallpapers, games, and minor tweaks to almost everything.
While in Windows Vienna the current interface will be completely stripped, no more explorer shells, and taskbars. No start menu. Probably no toolbars, or menus and Speech Recognition will become a major input device. One thing is for certain, Vienna won't be just an operating system, but a new generation in computing.


So Fiji is going to rip off all the cool features of Leopard and incorporate into Vista while Vienna aims to be the next generation of computing. Why does this sound so familiar... oh wait.... :)

And didn't we just recently have an article on stupid movie uses of computers that blasted the "talking computer" from Star Trek as being a completely useless interface? So why is this a good thing?

But it's also Microsoft. "2003" was codespeak for 2007, so "2008" means 2015 or something... and all the cool new features will be dropped for reasons of infeasibility anyway.

Re:From TFA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17410294)

it's just vapourware like Cairo was

"Definitely, Vista is very very improved OS.." (5, Interesting)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410066)

Exactly what is the basis for spouting this load of crap? How about this list of why Vista is inferior to previous versions of windows:


No Support for IPX, Appletalk, WebDav, or NetDDE
Even less capable backup built in than XP, which itself had inferior backup to previous versions
High cost
Bloat #1 - takes over 10GB of hard disk
Bloat #2 - 2GB of RAM needed
Crippled wordpad can't read .doc
Obtuse menuing requiring going in half a dozen or more levels in for basic controls
Stupid ReadyBoost trying to do what would be better done by simple swap/page to usb device, except RB is MUCH slower
Hardware vendors not in hurry to support Vista


in short, you'll gain nothing and lose functionality by going to Vista. save your money, just say NO.

other reasons why vista is inferior (3, Informative)

mr_death (106532) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410348)

Take the points in the parent posting, and add:

50+ millions lines of code bloat

lots of stupid, unnecessary eye candy

alleged security features, some that have already been broken ("most secure o/s ever", my ass)

a virgin ip stack

DRM silliness

kernel restrictions that keep third party security systems out -- said systems having done a much better job than Microsquish at keeping the bad guys out. You can, of course, pay extra for windows "defender" -- somewhat like buying an antidote from the people that poisoned you in the first place

As Ren and Stimpy might say to Ballmer, "you eeeediot!"

Has it really? (4, Interesting)

Orange Crush (934731) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410088)

but the delayed in the launch has cost Microsoft, billions of dollars.

Until the day Vista ships, MS is getting huge amounts of cash from Windows XP licenses on almost every new PC sold. Most people don't run out and buy a new OS for existing PCs, they usually stick with whatever came with it. How exactly will Vista increase MS's revenue to the tune of billions? Had they released something sooner, what new cash flow would that have provided and would it have justified the expense for development?

I'm sortof dancing around my real point here: I think the *real* reason so much time has gone buy since XP is that Microsoft really hasn't had much incentive to release a new OS.

After the fiasco that was WinFS... (3, Insightful)

xigxag (167441) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410090)

...why should we believe anything that Microsoft says about the feature set of a distant-future operating system? Furthermore, the days of geek dominance of the computer world are long over -- average people simply don't care what bells and whistles an OS has. They want to send email, play games, browse the web, play movies, organize their music, and write a few reports. Without having to worry about their computer being infected. All of those things are properly OS-agnostic: Firefox with Gmail and Flash, VLC and OpenGL work much the same on any modern OS. The only reasons for MS's continuing OS dominance are inertia, the forced tie-in with its flagship business apps, and DRM.

Seems short-sighted... (1)

LighterShadeOfBlack (1011407) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410124)

OK so Fiji is a stop-gap measure, let's face it none of the things listed there are going to make people rush out and buy it - more than likely anyone who wants those things will have already got them via third-party apps long before this ever sees the light of day. It's of little relevance.

Vienna, as it's described in TFA, seems unlikely to happen. As the article tells it, it's basically replacing all visual interface for speech-recognition. Huh? If this is intended to be the next proper OS from Microsoft and they're talking about it not being another delay-ridden feature-stripped letdown then I can only presume we're looking at a 2011-2012 release for this at latest? In order for speech-recognition to work as the primary interface for an OS, as in the thing you'll be working with all day long, it's going to have some bitchin' speech-recognition. We're talking HAL9000-style in terms of ability to understand the context of what someone's saying and whether they're speaking to the machine or to someone else in the room. So is the hardware to do all that going to be around by 2012? I doubt it very much. In short, if TFA is accurate in it's description and I haven't misunderstood, Vienna looks like vapourware.

A far more likely (IMO) future for Microsoft is the non-Windows MS-WebOS that they've hinted at as being the future of computing. Not because it's good for the consumer, far from it. Because it's good for Microsoft. As each version of Windows comes around it gets more and more complex and expensive to create, it takes longer to build and each time it gets more stable and secure. Windows being genuinely stable and secure is bad for business - why would anyone update their OS if the one they've had for the last five years is still running fine and the hardware can still do everything they need (which 5yr old hardware generally can these days). Point being that since the death of Win9x, Microsoft have reached a base level of security and stability that actually has them competing with their own products with each new release. Far better for them then to talk-up the future as being Web-based desktops so that they can pull out a Microsoft-WebOS that has Windows compatibility and can be charged as a service instead of a product. That way they can effectively guarantee a long-term income with a monthly service charge instead of having to compete with themselves.

Of course this is all rabid speculation and assumptions and I'm probably 100% wrong about everything etc. etc.

Bad Omen (4, Funny)

Target Drone (546651) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410132)

Aren't windows code names traditionally cities? The fact that they are using a contry name for an upgraded version of Vista that experienced a military coup d'état [wikipedia.org] a year ago (while vista development was in full swing) makes me wonder if this is a bad omen.

Worst Summary Ever (1)

vought (160908) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410142)

Talk about an article summary that serves it's own conclusions... "linux is a viable alternative on the desktop". Hunh?

Businesses being burnt again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17410150)

having had an R2 of Windows 2003, which given some companies went to Windows 2003 only weeks before R2 was made available, one wonders "Why go to Vista, when they are going to R2 it".

Given most of the computers I deal with still have Windows 2000 (and some 95), and are only just going Windows XP, we know we wont be in the "Vista support cycle" for at least 2 years (and to be honest, as a business you dont want to be an early adopter, and stability wise until at least the 2nd service pack) I dount we will allow Vista on the desktop

Then again, there is the hardware cost, most PC's on the market at present (ie those from HP, Dell, IBM) cant run Vista in its full version (with all the bells and whistles).

Me, I'd wait until R2 was out before even considering buying/allowing Vista on any desktop.

OS "simplicity" (2)

Elentari (1037226) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410158)

"Linux is no longer a hobbyist OS, and that day isn't far away when it becomes simple enough to be a viable alternative to Windows"

What's not simple about using Linux? People always seem to view any Linux distro as a failed attempt to emulate the current Windows UI, which isn't what it's designed to be. Any OS is simple if it's the one you've always used.

It's ironic that so many people reject Linux based on the occasional need to drop the menus and graphics in favour of the CLI, when that would logically be the "simplest" an OS could get.

I find Windows XP a pain to navigate, and never understood why so many people regard it as the easy option.

Re:OS "simplicity" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17410346)

It's ironic that so many people reject Linux based on the occasional need to drop the menus and graphics in favour of the CLI, when that would logically be the "simplest" an OS could get. That is NOT ironic. Back to the basement with you! Some people need programs to run on their operation system. Don't get me wrong I have a linux setup and have been using linux off and on for about 6 years. The problem is software being available not the interface or setup. And don't tell me to run AutoCAD and ArcGIS or Map3D in wine or some VM because thats pointle

WinFS? (4, Interesting)

IvyKing (732111) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410208)

Wasn't that originally promised in Cairo? Come on, this is getting to be even worse than Duke Nukem Forever. What's even worse is the "abscence of drive letters has been a feature of Unix since the early 1970's.


As for "file locations" being managed by applications - mmm, no thanks, I rather group files by projects which can involve many applications. What I'd really love is a return to the functionality present in Word for DOS, where the application would look in the current working directory for project specific configuration files.

Isn't this just like "Chicago" (1)

mary_will_grow (466638) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410216)

Stay with our cruddy platform!!! Don't switch, because in the coming years, when "Vienna" is released, you'll be glad you stuck with us!

Lets hop in our time machine:

You'll be glad you stayed with Windows 3.1 and didn't switch to any of the mmu-capable operating systems out there, because "Chicago" is going to be great! ...So with decades of programming and billions of dollars, you still need to be using Vaporware to sell your current product offering. Way to go.

One line, two comments (1)

Tim C (15259) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410226)

As we all know that Microsoft Vista was originally scheduled to be released in 2003, after two years of Windows XP, but it got delayed by over five years due to various reasons.

My first comment is that Vista's release date (last time I checked) is around 30/1/2007; if it was originally scheduled for a 2003 release, that's not a delay of "over 5 years", it's 4 at most.

My second comment is that grammatically speaking, that sentence is awful (as is much of the rest of the summary). I know this is a technology site, not a literature one, but it'd be nice if we had *some* standards...

MS Advertising is Levelling Up (1)

wintermute1974 (596184) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410236)

Microsoft isn't stupid. Even if it can't excite the masses over Vista, they might as well start talking up their new products.
It sounds like Fiji is going to what Vista should be, if Vista was allowed to be bug-fixed before being released.
And Vienna is so far in the future, that Microsoft can promise us anything they want, then scale back the features to meet the ship date, as always.

I hear that 2K3 R2 is a good OS. Maybe that's what I will have to upgrade to once my 2K machine can't load the drivers written for new hardware.

64bit linux world-domination-201 by 2008 (1)

Janek Kozicki (722688) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410238)

Hey, it was just a week ago, and it summarizes all the struggle pretty well:

Eveyone will switch to 64bit hardware by the end of 2008, it's impossible otherwise. The moore's law tells us what will be the memory capacity by 2008. And with 32bit it's impossible to address more than 4GB. Yeah, go ahead and tell that it will take a bit more, like just one year more. No problem. We will not see a working 64bit version of windows by then.

That article [catb.org] is great and gave me a lot of thought

I think Mark Twain said it best (5, Interesting)

Tony (765) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410286)

"There are lies, damned lies, and Microsoft promises."

We've heard it all before. Seriously. And it happens just like that: "Yeah, we know XP isn't that much of an upgrade to MS-Windows 2k, but you should see Longhorn! Oh, it's gonna be great! It'll milk your cows, skim the cream, and make fresh ice cream! It'll put your kids through college! Oh, and it'll, uh, make your complexion clear up, and get rid of your herpes!"

Every time Microsoft releases a less-than-stellar product (which is invariably), they start bragging about how great things will be in the *next* release, on which they haven't even started working. That's the Microsoft modus operandi: promise more than the competition currently has, and deliver less. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Release data accuracy (1)

Knytefall (7348) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410310)

Of course, since Vista shipped on time, we should all believe that 'Fiji' will be out in 2007 and 'Vienna' will be out in 2008.

I see you laughing in the back. Stop it. We're serious.

Digging their own grave (1)

lightversusdark (922292) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410312)

When Vista is released to the public, it will not ape all the features of Apple's OS X until R2 (codenamed Fiji), scheduled for release in 2008. Innovation will be part of a subsequent product "Vienna", still over 3 years away at a minimum. Although of course if it were to be delivered inside 5 years, you might feel justifiably ripped off if you purchased Vista, as it can be assumed that similar upgrade conditions from XP to Vista will apply re Vista to Vienna.

Wien? (1)

vulcanrob (835984) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410320)

In a bold move Vienna, will all be in German. Wunderbar! This release was originally codenamed Windows "Archduke Ferdinand", but they quickly killed that idea.

Vienna by Ultravox - revised lyrics (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17410330)

I once walked in the cold air
Freezing breath on frozen Windows panes
Lying and waiting, another reboot awaiting
A man in the dark, I think Richard Stallman was his name
So mystic and soulful
A voice reaching out in a piercing cry
"Move to linux, it stays up until you want to poweroff"

So now my Windows feeling has gone only Linux and I
Windows means nothing to me
This means nothing to me
Oh, Vienna

Looking Beyond Vista to Fiji and Vienna
Yet more Windows reboots awaiting
For me Windows has gone only Linux and I
Windows means nothing to me
This means nothing to me
Oh, Vienna

Open source is the way
We all know the end of Windows is on it's way
My Windows image has thus now gone only Linux and I
Windows means nothing to me
This means nothing to me
Oh, Vienna

timed to fail methinks (2, Insightful)

rucs_hack (784150) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410358)

So by the time large companies have started to deploy Vista, there will be a new version of windows out that they'll be plugging to mr and mrs Corporate world, pointing out, in the process, all the things that were wrong with Vista or needed changing, in order to get purchase orders in for the new stuff.

Somehow I don't see this as a viable plan.

Incremental service pack based improvements to Vista? Yes indeedy, but a completely new OS? What a stupid idea. They do, after all, sell to the Corporate world, and that does not like complete change in IT infrastructure every two years

In short (1)

rsmith (90057) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410390)

Paraphrased: "The next two versions will get all the deleted features we promised for vista, honest!"

So essentially, vista won't be launched until 2008?

and Linux is no longer a hobbyist OS.... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17410396)

"and Linux is no longer a hobbyist OS, and that day isn't far away when it becomes simple enough to be a viable alternative to Windows"

I think that day is still very far away and that it is still a hobbyist OS WHEN IT COMES TO THE DESKTOP. For servers, it's fabulous but it just come close to Windows or OSX for desktop usability. If you're not a geek it's just not gonna be your desktop OS. And if you are a geek you probably have Windows/OSX installed someplace for your real desktop use.

Will *this* time mark Microsoft's recovery? (2)

erroneus (253617) | more than 7 years ago | (#17410400)

Since Win2000, I have been disappointed with Microsoft's continual failure to depart from their OS kernel model that makes them persistently vulnerable and unstable. I recall attending some Microsoft presentation discussing the upcoming release of Windows 2000. I raised my hand to ask a simple question:

"Will Windows 2000 have the drivers running at ring-0?"

The answer was initially "what does that mean?" and eventually, "yes it will."

This isn't Win32's only source of vulnerability and instability, but it's certainly among them. And the obvious solution was virtualization. Back before Win2000's release (and each release thereafter) I had hoped to see something along the lines of WINE or some sort of virtualization mode for compatibility and a "native mode" for all modern releases of applications.

And when MacOSX came out and did precisely what I had hoped Windows would do, not only was I pleased to discover that my idea wasn't unique but that it was workable and functionable. (Well, sort of... I have been supporting a production environment that involves MacOS in Classic mode and while it basically works, it's not quite stable... no more stable than Windows is in its present form anyway.) But it also served as proof that Microsoft COULD have done this and probably SHOULD have done this.

Perhaps they WILL do this eventually, but will it be soon enough?

I love to hate Microsoft, honestly, but for the good of the IT world at large, I'd just rather see Microsoft fix their crap and let's just get on with things. If Linux continues to grow and improve as it has been, I'd rather see further adoption based on its present and future merits rather than because of the faults in Microsoft products.
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