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Birth of an Island

kdawson posted more than 7 years ago | from the rising-in-fire dept.

Science 136

slashmojo writes that while some islands are sinking, last August another rose from the ocean, formed by volcanic activity and caught in the act by a passing yacht. From the article: "What looked like a brown stain on the South Pacific turned out to be a spectacular drift of floating pumice stones stretching more than 16 km — and an indication an island was being born nearby... 'We are getting emails from volcanologists saying this is so rare.'" Here is the blog post of the yachtsman who photographed the nascent island.

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Praise Jesus! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17419854)

God giveth and God taketh away....
all balances out in the end we are just a small part of His PLAN

Re:Praise Jesus! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17419930)

Time for the no sarcastic jackasses in 2007 magic!
Abracadabra!
Crap, that guy's still here.

Re:Praise Jesus! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17420010)

God giveth us this jackass...won't someone please taketh him back?

Re:Praise Jesus! (1, Informative)

packeteer (566398) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420064)

I hate to be the spoil sport but this island is not new at all. It was discovered on August 12th. This was in some online articles months ago. Its interesting to read about still but its not a NYE island.

Re:Praise Jesus! (1)

bmo (77928) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420244)

"I hate to be the spoil sport but this island is not new at all. It was discovered on August 12th."

Well, for some of us, Surtsey is a new island, still. :-P

--
BMO

Re:Praise Jesus! (3, Insightful)

jbrader (697703) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420250)

Compare August 12 with the age of the Earth. It's a new island.

Re:Praise Jesus! (0, Offtopic)

starrsoft (745524) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420118)

I found the grandparent's (who posted as Anonymous Coward) identity via a cross-reference in my Bible!
Issachar is a strong ass crouching down...
Genesis 49:14
And I also found what our response to such people should be:
And Balaam said unto the ass, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee.
Numbers 22:29

--

A side note, while we're on the subject, did you know that the Bible mentions igniting farts?
...and she lighted off her ass...
Joshua 15:18

Re:Praise Jesus! (1)

prencher (971087) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420030)

This gets marked "insightful"? Now I've seen it all...

Re:Praise Jesus! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17420112)

Damn Right Science-Boy!
I got your muthafuckin' Science hangin'!
The above is my first first post on /.-pretty easy on newyearseve though....
I meant it as a TROLL yet in full sincerity....
I am not a Christian I'm a Heathen or agnostic if you prefer..
Witnessing the dramatic birth of an island is an example of the total Awe and Wonder of nature and our conciousness/sentience
I can't believe in any particular Faith-my brain isn't wired for it..
Can't deny it any easier!
Shit that would have got me a -200 on Digg....even on newyearseve
Praise Jesus!....or something like that..... :)
I wish I were on that boat.

Re:Praise Jesus! (4, Interesting)

Inverted Intellect (950622) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420050)

Call it what you will, but I'm not one to consider a proclamation of belief in a personal god to be 'Insightful'.

For those unaqainted with the subject of newly-formed islands, the only previous recorded example was Surtsey [wikipedia.org] , just off the south coast of Iceland, which appeared in a volcanic event in 1965 or so.

Surtsey has been a neat case-study in the colonization of land-life in an area previously devoid of it, but has unfortunately (yet wisely) been off-limits to non-scientists.

I think Tonga gets new ones with some regularity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17420148)

No Citation but I kinda remember them picking up a new one in the 70s
  The King wading through chest deep ash to plan the Tongan Flag

Oh Yeah.....Fuck the Scientists

Re:Praise Jesus! (4, Funny)

TapeCutter (624760) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420428)

There is also Krakatoa, but it behaves more like a recursive island.

Re:Praise Jesus! (-1, Offtopic)

starrsoft (745524) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420080)

...blessed be the name of the Lord. (Job 1:21 [biblegateway.com] )

Sing it, brother! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17420126)

This is what the LORD says-- he who made a way through the sea, a path through the mighty waters, "Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing! Now it springs up; do you not perceive it? I am making a way in the desert and streams in the wasteland.

Who owns it? (5, Funny)

TheBismarck (802029) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420166)

I call dibs.

Re:Who owns it? (1)

rdoger6424 (879843) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420300)

DAMN YOU!

Re:Praise Jesus! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17420172)

Yes!

And it is Her PLAN that your computer shall detonate and put you (and us) out of your jaysus-freak misery in 3... 2... 1...

Any other AC's posting claiming to be that one are are no more then Santa-ic imposters left over from last week.

FIRST TROLL (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17419856)

Of 2007!!!

I Gots 99 Prollems... (1)

heauxmeaux (869966) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420110)

But a Bitch ain't one!

Suck it long in 2007 - Fags4Eva!

Natural floater? (4, Funny)

CRC'99 (96526) | more than 7 years ago | (#17419860)

What looked like a brown stain on the South Pacific turned out to be a spectacular drift of floating pumice stones stretching more than 16 km


So when the earth gets a floater in the pool, it's one big mutha. Try fishing that out with a net ;)

Re:Natural floater? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17420132)

FLUSH!

Re:Natural floater? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17420134)

Better yet, try cutting that thick fudge rope into flushable chunks with a strethed out coat hanger whilst praying your wife's family doesn't hear you during the holiday meal. Often that gnarly dirt biscuit will require several flushes to erode the outer peanutty layer so it will match the aperature of the porcelain ass-throne and sail away to Seattle.

Fuck Your Yankee Blue Jeans!

Re:Natural floater? (1)

AndroidCat (229562) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420360)

Does it look like a .. Piece of Pie? [thefrantics.com]

So... we lose one, we win one. (3, Funny)

markana (152984) | more than 7 years ago | (#17419868)

Sounds fair.

First one to the new island gets the prime beachfront property! :-)

Re:So... we lose one, we win one. (1)

The Decider (1045452) | more than 7 years ago | (#17419894)

Told ya so, Global Warming is a myth.

Re:So... we lose one, we win one. (3, Funny)

Sparr0 (451780) | more than 7 years ago | (#17419932)

First one to the new island gets shitty landlocked property. LAST one gets beachfront :)

Re:So... we lose one, we win one. (1)

starrsoft (745524) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420122)

First one to the new island gets shitty landlocked property. LAST one gets beachfront :)
Nah, the first one to the island get blown up and becomes "a brown stain on the South Pacific".

Re:So... we lose one, we win one. (2, Interesting)

Harmonious Botch (921977) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420072)

First one to the island gets mildly radioactive beachfront property that will either blow up in another eruption or get washed away by big waves. Save it for the great-great-grandkids.

This is so awesome (3, Informative)

PurifyYourMind (776223) | more than 7 years ago | (#17419888)

You usually think of these structures as having been around for at least as long as civilization, but clearly the Earth is ever-changing... very cool.

Here's a decent intro to island formation:
http://www.hawaii.edu/environment/ainakumuwai/html /ainakumuwaiislandformation.htm [hawaii.edu]

Right. Well, Except for Global Warming... (1)

Lensar (1011229) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420782)

Global warming is all our fault. But this other stuff, yeah. We live in on an amazingly complex planet.

It's... (1, Offtopic)

Guitarhero1000 (1007633) | more than 7 years ago | (#17419916)

Magrathea!!

Could it be... (1)

Guitarhero1000 (1007633) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420002)

that this is Blizzard's explination of how all of a sudden I had a new Island off the coast of Auberdine where the Draenei http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draenei [wikipedia.org] now resides? I would have liked to see pictures of that instead.

I claim it for myself! (-1, Redundant)

racecarj (703239) | more than 7 years ago | (#17419918)

Before anyone else can, it's mine! MINE! MINE! MINE!

What you really need to know... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17419928)

Island, schmiland. You need to know this:

http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/Erection.html [comcast.net]

All is new (1)

Skywings (943119) | more than 7 years ago | (#17419942)

Nice a new island for the new year. What more can you want?

Re:All is new (1)

physicsphairy (720718) | more than 7 years ago | (#17419960)

Unlimited cosmic power.

Re:All is new (1)

Joebert (946227) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420332)

And a Corona, make that 2 Coronas, and a lime, and some ice, better grab a cooler & just make it a 12 pack of Coronas, better get extra ice too, I bet it's prety hot there.

Now that, would be miles away from ordinary.

Fake (-1, Troll)

dj961 (660026) | more than 7 years ago | (#17419964)

An obvious fake. I swear those nazi global warming bastard will do anything to disprove island sinking. Everyone knows islands sink and hummers are to blame(not the suv). Next time they decided to photoshop some beaches into an island they should do a better job. Pardon me while I go outside and try to freeze some ocean water into icebergs.

Re:Fake (0, Offtopic)

dj961 (660026) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420130)

Please mod me down some more, Hitler and Saddam need a new fluffer. HINT: Burning karma is hard work.

unprecedented evile sponsors loss of civilization (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17419970)

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from previous post: many demand corepirate nazi execrable stop abusing US

we the peepoles?

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all they (the felonious nazi execrable) want is... everything. at what cost to US?

for many of US, the only way out is up.

don't forget, for each of the creators' innocents harmed (in any way) there is a debt that must/will be repaid by you/US as the perpetrators/minions of unprecedented evile will not be available after the big flash occurs.

'vote' with (what's left in) yOUR wallet. help bring an end to unprecedented evile's manifestation through yOUR owned felonious corepirate nazi life0cidal glowbull warmongering execrable.

some of US should consider ourselves very fortunate to be among those scheduled to survive after the big flash/implementation of the creators' wwwildly popular planet/population rescue initiative/mandate.

it's right in the manual, 'world without end', etc....

as we all ?know?, change is inevitable, & denying/ignoring gravity, logic, morality, etc..., is only possible, on a temporary basis.

concern about the course of events that will occur should the corepirate nazi life0cidal execrable fail to be intervened upon is in order.

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consult with/trust in yOUR creators. providing more than enough of everything for everyone (without any distracting/spiritdead personal gain motives), whilst badtolling unprecedented evile, using an unlimited supply of newclear power, since/until forever. see you there?

Pictures (1)

locokamil (850008) | more than 7 years ago | (#17419988)

Those pictures are amazing. But is there anything under the pumice? Or were they able to just sail through it? I'm confused...

Re:Pictures (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17420368)

they sailed thru the pumice. the pumice was created during the volcanic activity that the pics show off in the distance and was floating away following the currents. the new island isn't the pumice.

Claim (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17419994)

What IS the international protocol for claiming a new island? My flag first, nearest neighbour?

Re:Claim (3, Insightful)

MPHellwig (847067) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420242)

Quite simply, you claim it's yours and it's yours unless somebody else with a bigger gun says so.

Re:Claim (1)

jargonCCNA (531779) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420320)

You can't claim us, we live here! Five hundred million of us!

Re:Claim (1)

LordOfTheNoobs (949080) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420520)

Yes yes yes, but do you have a flag? No? Oh dear. Looks like I do claim this land in the name of the Queen. Better luck next time old chaps.

Re:Claim (1)

SonicSpike (242293) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420420)

Well - if the island is formed close to another chain of islands, whoever lays claim to the original chain, probably by default has claim to the new one simply due to proximity.

However being able to occupy and defend this island is only part of the ability to claim it, because the governing organization of the island must also be recognized by other governments as being the official governing body for that area of land. Anyone can say they are an independent sovereign nation-state, but even if they have the guns to back it up, it doesn't do much good unless they are recognized by other sovereign states.

Since this is NOT the first time in history that a volcano has produced a new island, I am willing to bet that there is either previous common law on the subject, or there are treaties that have been signed by the majority of states on this specific issue. Any international attorneys in the house?

A few sources of information of relevant subjects:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conch_republic [wikipedia.org] (Key West, FL ceding from the USA)
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealand [wikipedia.org]
http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,36749,00 .html [wired.com]
http://www.havenco.com/ [havenco.com]

Re:Claim (4, Informative)

BrianH (13460) | more than 7 years ago | (#17421000)

Depends on where its at. This particular island lies within the already recognized territorial waters of Tonga, so it belongs to them. Since most new islands would form in volcanic chains with pre-existing atolls and islands, this is likely to be the case the vast majority of the time.

If you did manage to spot an island forming outside of the territorial waters of another nation, the biggest gun rule generally applies. You can claim it yourself and try to create your own nation, but good luck defending it when someone with bigger guns than you decides to grab it. Until you have a settled population on the island, nobody is going to care that some lone nut got kicked off a speck of rock in the middle of the ocean. He who had the biggest guns wins. Until you actually get a population, nobody is going to recognize you as a nation. As a example, the Republic of Minerva was set up in the 1970's on infill located on an unclaimed atoll...basically, a bunch of dirt was piled on an atoll to create an artificial island. Nobody paid much attention to the island or the builders claims, and eventually Tonga sent their army over, evicted the guy, and claimed the island for themselves. Since there was no actual population living on the island, little attention was paid to the "invasion". The people involved in building the island still whine about their claim and call themselves the "government in exile", but without a population to represent or an army to defend themselves, they're little more than a paper organization. The island, as I understand it, was allowed to erode back into the sea. Only a few narrow spits of land ringing the reefs remain.

Grr (1, Offtopic)

QuoteMstr (55051) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420004)

"So" is not a synonym of "very".

Re:Grr (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17420038)

"So" is not a synonym of "very".
When did we let valley girls onto /.?

That is soo not cool.

Re:Grr (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17420622)

/. space cadets? Like, gag me with spoon. I mean, like, geeks are sooo gross. Totally spaz.

Re:Grr (3, Funny)

presidentbeef (779674) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420052)

"So" is not a synonym of "very".

I think you meant: "So" is so not a synonym of "very".

Re:Grr (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17420054)

You are like so wrong.

Re:Grr (1)

pete-classic (75983) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420906)

He was holding his hands out about eight inches apart when he typed "so", indicating the degree of rarity.

-Peter

Global warming! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17420012)

Hot pumice? Global warming is making islands!

Supercool (2, Interesting)

presidentbeef (779674) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420036)

I hope scientists can get some cool information out of his. And perhaps footage of the island forming...maybe some time-lapse photography or something. That would be neat-o.

Re:Supercool (0, Redundant)

Anonymous McCartneyf (1037584) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420754)

The link to the blog of that yachtsman has pix, inc. some pix of the volcano creating land. I was amazed at the pix of the volcano creating land.

Kyoto got your tongue? (-1, Flamebait)

canuck57 (662392) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420046)

Maybe the earth is cooling?

Now I know about the "global warming" claims and Kyoto fuss... but old islands submerge, new ones pop up... and some lamer is going to scream the work is going to end because this was volcanic in nature...

But so what? Kyoto was a politicians dream, spend lots of money on something that 1) is not needed, 2) isn't effective, 3) has about as much confirmation as My Favorite Martian. Kyoto and global warming is a big con job. I just looked at a chart that said it was warmer in medieval times... cyclical changes like this are no big deal and have occurred millions of times.

Even if it is true, the polar and near regions might become more habitable. Me, I am sick of 6 months of winter.

Now on with the green slam...

Oh, BTW a HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!

I spy with my rich eye. (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17420060)

"slashmojo writes that while some islands are sinking, last August another rose from the ocean [CC] [MD] [GC], formed by volcanic activity and caught in the act by a passing yacht."

See. I told you rich people are good for something. :)

Re:I spy with my rich eye. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17420648)

I realise that you were trying to be funny, but quite a few cruising yachties are closer to floating bums than Larry Ellisons racing their way around the world. It's not inherently expensive to live afloat (and in some ways it's cheaper) but the curiosity of the choice means that conventional lifestyles don't fit well. ... which makes all kinds of sense in the context of yachties photographing weird things that others don't see. Want to live different? Try it afloat.

Really neat, but... (3, Funny)

khendron (225184) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420062)

This is really neat, but doesn't it strike anybody as odd that they decided to sail
*towards* an active volcano? Were they trying to get a last minute entry into the 2006 Darwin Awards or something?

Re:Really neat, but... (1)

istartedi (132515) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420322)

Nevermind that, what does pumice do to your hull? To your prop? Obviously it doesn't hurt to go through a little, because they survived; but that stuff is abrasive. Did they have any frame of reference for this, or did they just not consider what it might do, and get lucky?

Re:Really neat, but... (3, Insightful)

niktemadur (793971) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420694)

From the blog:
After cleaning the water filter the Yanmar diesel started again. Thank God! Without wind we would have been stuck in a sea of stone if the motor had failed. Next thing to check was the other water inlets. Some minor pumice particles but nothing serious. But the bottom paint were scrubbed away at places along the waterline, Maiken has an ablative paint so it was just doing what is supposed to do. Like we'd sailed through sandpaper.

So you're right of course, and in case of doubt, one should err on the side of caution. But in a situation like this, the opportunity to witness a spectacular one in a million event, then to see a gigantic patch of pumice floating by...whew... that's gotta be a flood of adrenaline. Most sailors don't even dream of witnessing something like this, it's so far out there. Hell man, you just gotta inspect that thing up-close, you take as many precautions as possible, but some safety will get thrown to the winds. Chalk another one up for curiosity.

Re:Really neat, but... (2, Funny)

ColaMan (37550) | more than 7 years ago | (#17421012)

Most sailors don't even dream of witnessing something like this, it's so far out there. Hell man, you just gotta inspect that thing up-close, you take as many precautions as possible, but some safety will get thrown to the winds. Chalk another one up for curiosity.

A true sailor would rail against nature like a madman, with wild eyes and a raised fist silhouetted against the sky dramatically. Probably something along the lines of :

"Damn you, nature! That patch of ocean was mine to sail, MINE I say! And now you've taken that from me! Damn you to HELL! But I'll have my revenge yet! Global warming will bury this island before the century is out - mark my words! The game is not yet over, Nature, not by a long shot!"

I'm convinced... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17420086)

Between recent plans to map under Greenland's ice to find the home of the Elder Things and Shoggoths, and now this, I think it's obvious H.P. Lovecraft's prophecy is coming true.

All glory to Cthulhu.

Re:I'm convinced... (2, Informative)

AndroidCat (229562) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420304)

It's the city of R'lyeh arising from the slumbering depths! [wikipedia.org]

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

Someone lands on it, plants a flag and yells... (4, Funny)

aapold (753705) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420102)

First post!

Re:Someone lands on it, plants a flag and yells... (0, Offtopic)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420210)

I for one would like to wish happy new year and happy new island to our volcanic overlords. Mod points to everybody!
     

It's because of global warming (-1, Flamebait)

heroine (1220) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420120)

The only way to stop global islanding is to raise taxes on energy use. We'll stop those islands even if it means buying a mansion for every last politician.

Mother nature is ticked at being... (5, Funny)

creimer (824291) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420144)

...caught in the act by a passing yacht.

Nosy environmnetalists and their cameras. Worst than the paparazzi on a Saturday night.

So isolated, but so populated (3, Insightful)

maggard (5579) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420152)

Its fascinating that something like this, in the age of of satellite monitoring, global communications, Google Earth, can happen without vulcanologists aware of it. Its possible that military organizations detected it & then dismissed it as outside their purview & didn't pass it on, in any case it's unfortunate that such a rare event escaped study. Hopefully we'll soon see automated earth science 'anomaly' expert systems processing realtime data and alerting relevant specialists.

On the other hand, it's impressive that there were people there! That the human species is so ubiquitous on planet Earth that a random bunch of folks happened to be sailing in proximity, in what was historically one of the most isolate places on the planet. It really does bring home that there are now more folks alive today then have died in the history of our species, that we're now regularly witnessing these one-in-a-million (but what is that to six billion?!) events!

Re:So isolated, but so populated (2, Informative)

I'll Provide The War (1045190) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420176)

Here are the images from NASA and the Royal New Zealand Air Force.

http://www.ulb.ac.be/sciences/cvl/homereef/homeree f.html [ulb.ac.be]

Mirror: http://www.ulb.ac.be.nyud.net:8080/sciences/cvl/ho mereef/homereef.html [nyud.net]

Re:So isolated, but so populated (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17420352)

Just wondering, why do you feel the need to provide a mirror link of a Belgium university page?

Re:So isolated, but so populated (1)

I'll Provide The War (1045190) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420714)

The page is 1.32MB and will probably end up linked at Digg and other large aggregator sites as well.

Re:So isolated, but so populated (2, Informative)

SmashedSqwurl (836794) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420290)

Actually, as soon as I saw this article, I went on Google Earth and looked for it. It's there!

Here are the coordinates: 18 59 25.13 S, 174 45 46.40 W

Naturally, I immediately made a placemark.

Re:So isolated, but so populated (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17420436)

To your sig: because I used to post, then I got another job... What I have to say is still worth listening to, though.

Re:So isolated, but so populated (2, Informative)

ImpShial (1045486) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420596)

It is amazing that someone would be around to witness this. With the population explosion we've seen in the last 20 years, it makes you wonder how crowded our solar system is going to be in 200 years.

But... (a bit off-topic)

maggard wrote:

It really does bring home that there are now more folks alive today then have died in the history of our species
This is actually an urban legend. Demographers put the estimate at roughly 80 billion dead throughout history. Modest estimates put the total number of people alive today at approximately 6% of the total of all people who have ever lived.

Links:
http://www.economist.com/diversions/millennium/dis playStory.cfm?Story_ID=346605 [economist.com]
http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/dead.htm [snopes.com]
http://www.rateitall.com/i-885386-the-number-of-pe ople-alive-today-is-greater-than-the-number-of-peo ple-who-have-ever-died.aspx [rateitall.com]

Sailing through rock (1)

MidnightBrewer (97195) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420174)

This is definitely a must-see experience, and I envy the travelers who were lucky enough to witness something so rare. However, I'm less envious of the captain when he reaches harbor and realizes that sailing through 16km of pumice is hell on the bottom paint. He's going to have fun getting that repainted. ;) (Of course, a REAL captain would just do it himself.)

Speaking from the experience of having lived on a sailboat for three years, and having painted the bottom in dry dock at least once.

Re:Sailing through rock (1)

TapeCutter (624760) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420518)

Ever woken up in a flock of mutton birds sitting atop the water and streatching as far as the eye can see? Once into something that large floating on top, it's not always clear how to get out. Admittedly sailing toward the volcano was unlikely to help matters as much as crossing the current would have.

...And a smart captain would shanghi some kids! :)

Prediction for 2007: CO2 loses stature (-1, Flamebait)

nido (102070) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420190)

There's a theory about climate change that hasn't yet gotten much press:

Underwater Volcanism is the driving force behind global climate change. Volcanos heats ocean water, causing more water to evaporate into the atmosphere, changing weather patterns all over the world.

Water is a much stronger "greenhouse gas" than Carbon Dioxide ever could be.

The inference is that we Humans, while certainly very good at screwing up the environment, are not responsible for the increases in temperature, changes in rainfall patterns, and melting of ice shelfs. While Al Gore's certainly well-intentioned, he's also wrong. My source (sorry, no link as his book's not been published yet) says that oceanographers have 50+ years of data logging ocean temperatures, that prove this theory beyond any shadow of a doubt.

This story is simply anecdotal evidence that this new theory of climate change is the most accurate.

Re:Prediction for 2007: CO2 loses stature (1)

hrvatska (790627) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420268)

My source (sorry, no link as his book's not been published yet) says


Even if the book's not published, what's the author's name. Has he published any other books or articles?

Re:Prediction for 2007: CO2 loses stature (1)

nido (102070) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420418)

he offers a fresh look from outside the field. Here's an email I received some months back:


June 8th, 2006 (email text below)

THIS PAPER SOURCE IS DESTINED TO BECOME FAMOUS:

Levitus, who has become one of the old men of oceanography and related earth history, cited in oceanography lit. and esp. related to global warming, is very soft spoken but is clearly telling his colleagues in the backhanded way academics often say things that greenhouse gas theory is a crock. The climate change mostly is being induced by the heating of the ocean, he says....which he does not explain directly in this latest article, but he sure does lay the ground work for a lot of other oceanographers who are very very close to getting bold enough to talk about the extensive underwater volcanism they have found during the last 15 years.

For those of technical bent, get his article and try letting it frame your thoughts about how global warming really does work.

Warming Of The World Ocean 1955-2003 [noaa.gov]
S. Levitus, J. Antonov, and T. Boyer

National Oceanographic Data Center, NOAA, Silver Spring, Maryland, USA
Received 22 September 2004; revised 24 November 2004; accepted 8 December 2004; published 22 January 2005.
GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH LETTERS, VOL. 32, L02604, doi:10.1029/2004GL021592, 2005

notes taken from article, some verbatim, going into my books:

During 1955-1998 world ocean heat content (0-3000 m) increased 14.5 X 10x22 J correspoinding to a mean temperature increase of 0.037 Celcius at a rate of 0.20 Wm-2 (per unit area of Earth's total surface area).

confirms long held suspicion that the ocean heat content is the dominant factor in the variability of the Earth's heat balance.

world ocean responsible for 84% of the increase in world heat.

up and down within in early 80's shows increase decrease
this variability in the global heat system is large, significant, and COMPLETELY unknown
may be underestimating the heating going on in the oceans

significant impact on earth's heat balance (climate} within five year time spans

ocean holds 1000 times as much heat as the atmosphere

or a 0.1 celcius increase in water temp is equiv to 100 celcius increase in atmosphere

"Our discussion here has not been to minimize the impacts of warming of the lower atmosphere due to increasing greenhouse gases, we are simply placing Earth's heat balance in perspective. The response of the Earth's climate system to changes in radiative forcing is often cast as the response of the Earth's surface temperature to these "forcings". This is understandable because we live at the Earth's surface and there has been a lack of subsurface ocean data with which to conduct Earth system heat balance studies.

GET THE BOTTOM LINE BELOW, DO YOU SEE THAT HE IS POINTING IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT DIRECTION THAN CO2? This guy has been studying climate change for 25 years and thinks the climate models are too crude at present for useful results.

"Improved scientific understanding requires that we study the response of all components of the Earth's heat balance, of which the world ocean is the dominant term."

get electronic data at http://www.nodc.noaa.gov/OC5/indprod.html.

If 84% of the increased heat in global warming has come from the oceans during the past 50 years, if this is really true (and since it has been directly measured and calculated from real empirical sources it has considerable validity) you can explain ALL the anomalies of the past 40 years, most esp. those of the last ten. The theory of greenhouse gases cannot explain a single one of the current extremes in the Global Warming Syndrome, least of all the warming of the Arctic..

For those technically inclined, have fun with this, it is a lot to chew on. This article has just recently been added to accessible archives so this is relatively new news, though it was published last year.

Re:Prediction for 2007: CO2 loses stature (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17420456)

he offers a fresh look from outside the field.

  Oh, crackpot. Gotcha.

Re:Prediction for 2007: CO2 loses stature (1)

TapeCutter (624760) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420552)

he offers a fresh look from outside the field

Translation: He drags up stale non-sequiters because he hasn't got a fucking clue.

Re:Prediction for 2007: CO2 loses stature (1, Interesting)

Genevish (93570) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420284)

Are you joking, or truly an idiot? (Or do you work for Big Oil?) Why would there suddenly be an increase in volcanic activity in the last 50 years?

...says that oceanographers have 50+ years of data logging ocean temperatures, that prove this theory beyond any shadow of a doubt.

The increase in CO2 over the last century would cause an increase in water temperature as well...

Re:Prediction for 2007: CO2 loses stature (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17420406)

Are you joking, or truly an idiot? (Or do you work for Big Oil?)

Yes, because we all know that anybody with an opinion which fails to comply with the personal idealism requirements you demand of all others can only be "joking", "idiotic" or a shill for "Big Oil".

This is the main reason I don't give a fuck about shrill morons such as yourself and your opponents, or your hobby causes: you simply aren't worth my time.

Re:Prediction for 2007: CO2 loses stature (1)

TapeCutter (624760) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420816)

"Why would there suddenly be an increase in volcanic activity in the last 50 years?"

Apparently melting glaciers have caused a slight increase in sismic activity. Some oddballs think increased sismic activity equates to increased vulcanisim and "disproves" AGW or at least absolves human's of any blame. Kinda like some poeple still insist on perverting science to support a literal interpretation of "The" bible, only they pervert science to support their version of "The" economy.

"The increase in CO2 over the last century would cause an increase in water temperature as well..."

Indeed it has and will continue to do so for another half century even if we stopped all emmissions today, the accompaning "thermal expansion" from the wamer water is a large part of the predicted sea level rises [realclimate.org] . However the lag between atmosphere warming and ocean warming (that incidently demonstrates cause/effect) means that we are only just now seeing the full effect of the CO2 released in the 50's. Even worse than wet feet is that as the ocean dissolves more CO2 it becomes acidic creating a hostile environment for things on the bottom of the food chain, like phytoplankton and coral. Coral reefs in particular are the "cannaries" of the ocean and 30% of them are now dead.

Mankind (including this little black duck), lacks the enlightenment to eliminate poverty and look after the garden with or without a religion although I suspect we have the ability to do so. The industrial revolution has become Frankenstien's monster turning on it's master first with sophisticated weapons and three-eyed fish, and finally a increasingly likely global famine. Yet I as much as any other would still like a technological fix so my showers can last more than three minutes (where I live [bom.gov.au] the cities are on permenent and increasingly severe water rations). Preferably I would like to see it achived by getting economists "onboard" to suggest ways of "steering" the global economy in the "green" and "human rights" direction (eg: The Stern report) rather than the false greenie vs capitalist dichotomy that has been shoved down our throats since the 70's and has done nothing but squander time. /rant

Dont fly to this island on UAL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17420196)

'cause this might happen to you too... http://evilunitedairlines.blogspot.com/ [blogspot.com]

How long? (1)

in2mind (988476) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420232)

Before you go to the island to celebrate,
who knows when it will submerge ?

Well, it's a damn good thing ... (1)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420270)

that yacht didn't try to pass through that "brown stain" and discover that they had just run aground.

Birth of an Island, Rise of a Nation... (4, Funny)

mikeisme77 (938209) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420348)

Now if I saw an island being formed, I would anchor my yacht offshore, wait for the land to cool, then plant a flag claiming it in the name of my new sovereign nation... Even if it's just a small island, it would still be cool to be the ruler of an island nation...
A man can dream...

Re:Birth of an Island, Rise of a Nation... (4, Insightful)

Teancum (67324) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420870)

Please look at http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Making_an_Island [wikibooks.org] for some further information and sources.

In the early 1970's, there was a Las Vegas developer who ended up going to an atoll that was technically in unclaimed international waters and "built" an island by dumping extra material on this group of submerged rocks to the point that there was a portion that stayed above water during high tides, technically new territory just as you have suggested.

BTW, this was also near the Tongan islands, so this is also relevant in this situation.

What happened afterward was that a group of Tongan soldiers "invaded" the newly formed island and asserted sovereignty by "occupying" the island in the name of Tonga. Instead of formenting an international incident, the developer relented and gave up his attempt to build his own South Pacific version of Monaco.

I'm not sure what would have happened if this developer had his own "army" that would have defended the island, but it certainly seems like Tonga would consider it justifications for going to war if it happened near one of their islands. I'm curious what the Tongan government may have to say about this new island in their general domain.

Foot scrubbers (1)

Joebert (946227) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420354)

I wonder if any of them took a second to realize what that brown stain was worth wrapped in plastic & sold in Bed Bath & Beyond.

Natural Virgin Pumice Foot Scrubbers complete with Special Snake Oil -- $19.99 ea

So can he name it? (1)

shyampandit (842649) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420450)

Can he name the Island as he was the first to see it/step on it?

I guess he could try to keep the Island for himself, but I guess it would then be his responsibility to protect it from other invaders..

So Lex Luthor's dad was wrong... (1)

tehSpork (1000190) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420458)

They are making more land these days!

Dandelion... (0, Redundant)

MoOsEb0y (2177) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420878)

When lava pours out near the sea surface, tremendous volcanic explosions sometimes occur. In time, submarine seamounts, or islands, are formed. When lava flows underwater, it behaves differently. And a new contraption to capture a 'dandelion' in one piece has been put together by the crew. The preparation for a dive is always a tense time. When lava pours out near the sea surface, tremendous volcanic explosions sometimes occur.

He's coming! (1)

gcantallopsr (451114) | more than 7 years ago | (#17420948)

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn...

This is a story all about how... (1)

billster0808 (739783) | more than 7 years ago | (#17421028)

We are getting emails from volcanologists saying this is so rare, but I thought "naw, forget it". Yo homes to Bel-Air!

Breaking News! (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 7 years ago | (#17421052)

This just in! The new island has suddenly lurched into the air and is now headed skywards. There are unconfirmed reports that a man with a cape was seen at the bottom of this former island. It was assumed to be Superman but since the island was made of kryptonite, this is actively being debated on the internet.
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