Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

October Gnome Released

justin++ posted more than 14 years ago | from the g2k dept.

GNOME 141

k_wayne writes "The Gnome team have finished an amazing bug hunt and we are left with a pretty cool stable release of the Gnome system. See the announcement made by Elliot Lee. The gnome developers are now moving their attention toward the next generation gnome release. This new Gnome stuff is not only very stable, it's got some very cool stuff in it. " One really nice new feature is dingus-clicking: you can click on a URL in the terminal and have Netscape come up. XChat, glade, more translations, and easier bug reporting some of the most significant features.

cancel ×

141 comments

This is a truly terrible thing to say (1)

aheitner (3273) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617676)

But yesterday I just 'apt-get upgrade'd my Debian potato system, like any other day. It automagically upgraded to October Gnome (there was careful work done this time to make sure that all the distros had packages ready the day it came out). Everything worked perfectly, since the distro is continuously updated and checked.

Debian unstable is up to 4050-odd packages comprising everything ever anywhere. I'm up to 537 of them installed.

After I upgraded to October Gnome, I went to a CMU-LUG meeting where Jacob Berkman (the gnome-core maintainer and panel hacker) talked about October Gnome!

Re:gnome suxX (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617677)

:)

Re:More generic regex->action coupling (1)

Helge Hafting (14882) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617688)

There is not enough context to map 'blah.txt' to an actual file on disk, thats basically why.

Seems to me that a convention using the CWD of the foreground process on that terminal might be a useful default directory for "blah.txt"

Re:Use version number! (1)

Ivo (26920) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617689)

I think it's quite ok to use a version name instead of a version number to indicate a release of a bundle of software. It sounds much cooler and is easier to remember than 1.0.53.

However, this month thing may get confusing. How can you know if e.g. JuneGnome is newer then OctoberGnome if you don't have the year in it..

Greetings,
Ivo

Re:Downloading 30+ new packages ??????? (2)

varaani (77889) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617690)

In ncftp, mget * and then rpm -Fvh * was easy enough for me. The -F option upgrades all previously installed packages.

Knowing these and other magic spells is the hard part (for the general public, anyway).

Re:so is this the REAL version 1.0? (1)

Nodatadj (28279) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617691)

Windowmaker is one single program
GNOME is many many programs

Windowmaker is a windowmanager
GNOME is a desktop environment.

You cannot say "Windowmaker is one 3 files, GNOME should be too", as they are totally different things.

GNOME has been fairly stable for me since about V0.9, but once it passed about V1.0.9, it hasn't crashed in any major way that I can remember. The only version of GNOME that I had a problem with was 0.3. Version 1.18 is very stable and if you don't want to upgrade, fine, just don't be so close minded. Just because it crashed once in the past, doesn't mean it's not stable now.



Re:Nice try, but (1)

Haarmann (102004) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617692)

Common to what. My first Gnome-installation took hours to download all this libs (56k modem). I admit having used a RedHat-system by the time.
Nevertheless, it IS bloat as kde is (not accepting your bloat-definition).

Re:RedHat RPM's vs Gnome RPM's (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617693)

It should work just fine. They took the SRPMs from 6.1 to make the Red Hat GNOME RPMS.

Re:"Impressive stability improvements" ? (3)

extrasolar (28341) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617694)

Actually, I would argue the reverse. I think stability improvements are impressive. Especially with the many interlocking componets of a desktop enviroment.

I gave up on Gnome due to all the bugs

Well, what are you waiting for? This is the stable release you have been waiting for and no longer need to be a bigot!

--

Hey, elliot - where did you put the real release? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617695)

You know, the one with all the flames for people who don't know about Linux? I didn't post the last thread, but yes this one is from me. mosfet@kde.org

Perhaps you'd like a service pack? :) (5)

Booker (6173) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617696)

I get a kick out of reading Slashdot comments on the PCWeek thing, about how 21 security updates aren't that bad, you just wget the whole directory, then rpm -Fvh *.rpm and you're done. And how one big service pack from Microsoft is bloated and slow and inefficient....

Today, it seems, we've turned the tables. "30 packages? What a pain! Why don't they just give me one big package that I can click?"

:)

Magic URL feature (1)

Ratface (21117) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617699)

Hey - this sounds completely brilliant!

I have often been frustrated using Mutt at the remote server where I collect my mail. It's not astoundingly inconvenient to cut & paste a URL, but "insta-click"(tm :-) is a much better solution.

I wonder how it will handle URL's that have broken across a line?? Anyone got the answers?

More generic regex->action coupling (2)

Erik Hensema (12898) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617701)

Why didn't they implement a regex->action coupling? You can implement opening URL's from xterms using this by creating a regex for an URL, and binding netscape to that URL.
You could also use this to open a texteditor whenever something like blah.txt is encountered.

I believe them... (2)

rde (17364) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617702)

...but then again, I did when 1.0 came out. They did themselves no favours then, but I suppose we're all entitled to one mistake.

For the record, I think the 'click in a terminal' feature is beyond cool.
One thing: October GNOME? What does October stand for? Let's see... October Can Take Off Because Errors Remedied?

Re:More generic regex->action coupling (1)

db48x (92557) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617703)

The only probablem with this is that you are now emulating windows. However, I do believe it is a good idea, as long as there is an easy way to get an open with type thing, so that I can override the default with out actually changing the default.

Debian packages? (1)

Cee (22717) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617704)

The .deb's seem to be gone on the FTP.
Does anybody know anything about it?
Or do I have to start compiling tar-balls and CVS-snapshots again?

Use version number! (2)

renoX (11677) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617705)

Frankly, they should also use version number, it is much more easy to follow the evolution of a product based on its version number (minor enhancement ? increase minor number) than on the month of the release...

Maybe they don't use version number because they fucked up the 1.0.0 version which should have been labeled 0.9.9 to say that it was feature complete but not yet stable. But that doesn't mean that using version number is a bad thing, it just mean that you have to be cautious about your version number..

Re:Use version number! (2)

trygu (38134) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617706)

Actually, the version number is 1.0.53.


--

Downloading 30+ new packages ??????? (1)

Zoltar (24850) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617707)

Hmmmm... I went to the site and had a look at the RH rpm's and I'm a little miffed that they expect me to download and install 30+ packages. Why not at least put them into 5-6 larger ones. It would certainly make the process much easier.

Anyways, I'm going to give it a try, heck, maybe I'll write a perl script to automate the process.

Re:Magic URL feature (2)

orabidoo (9806) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617708)

I've had URL insta-click since 4 years ago (I didn't come up with it either, borrowed the scripts from someone else, then later rewrote them in perl). oh, and that's with plain fvwm2, no GNOME or KDE. for this you need: xselection from ftp://ftp.x.org/R5contrib (takes some tweaks to compile on X11R6 but it works), Netscape's remote.c (linked from http://home.netscape.com/newsref /std/x-remote.html [netscape.com] , and a little glue script that grabs the PRIMARY selection, strips spaces, and calls remote with it. the you configure your window manager to run the script when you press a key, with a line like this:
Key F6 A N Exec netscape-sel &

once you have that, all you have to do is mouse-select a URL anywhere and press F6.

Re:This is a truly terrible thing to say (1)

Thomas Charron (1485) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617709)

I'm actually considering Debian for this exact reason. Can you set it up to only pull updates you want, like autorpm --interactive mode? Basically, autorpm will pull a list of RPM's that can be updated, and sends an email. You then run it interactively, and tell it to try install, update, or remove the package from beuing checked..

A lot to catch up for Gnome (1)

haggar (72771) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617710)

Gnome has a baaaaaaaaad reputation in the Nokia division where I work. People call it the synonim for "crappy". I believe there is much good work behind the project, I also know how powerful is the object model on which it's based, ultrakudos to Gnome. But when they released version 1.0, they shot themselves in the feet.

Personally I had a non-nice experience installing Gnome, I admit I never made it working. I also admit I didn't try very hard because fvwm2 was enough for me at the time, and KDE got my heart when I tried it later. KDE was nice enough to not want me trying to install Gnome again. But I am sure the guys here will happily install it on the RH boxes, and I will certainly have many feedbacks on how it's performing. I wish Gnome all the best, and succesful bug-hunting.

Dingus clicking (2)

Hard_Code (49548) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617711)

"Dingus clicking"

I'd love to see that enter the vernacular:

"Launch Netscape"
"no, you have to click the dingus"
"no, click"
"here"
"the DINGUS!, click the DINGUS!"
"good"

You are behind the times friend, (4)

extrasolar (28341) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617712)

Everything is different now.

You see, Gnu/Linux is no longer just for the computer elite, it for a much larger crowd who for some reason, want to take a chance with this bold new platform.

Hacking value isn't a boolean value, friend. It is qualitive in all shapes and sizes. Think, there is probably somebody who used to be famliar DOS batch files and task-switching in DOS who right now is experimenting with Python. Think, someone who used to write HTML in MS Notepad is, right now, learning vi. Think, right now, someone is writing their first shell script. Think, right now, someone is learning Perl.

If there is one good GNU/Linux can cause because of it's hype, it would be the spread of true computer literacy and the aknowledgement of what computer literacy really is.

Desktops like Gnome and KDE aren't just catering to the masses, they are catering to people who are less secure with a command-line, but still want to learn. Tell me this, what difference is there between developing in gEdit rather than emacs or vi.

Why is it, you think, that people are coming to Unix? Probably because Windows isn't fun anymore. A little while ago, I saw one of the last issues of DOSWorld in the newsstands. I glanced through it and saw the various tricks and hacks with batch scripts and DOS and thought to myself, these people would love GNU/linux. I believe that many of these people do. DOSWorld doesn't exist anymore.

I would love to see a scripting utility for gnome to make access to the desktop more easier. Access to all the Corba objects and bonobo componets with documentation, something compelling to even the least computer literate.

Ah, but one can dream...

--

Re:Use version number! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617713)

That wouldn't be an issue if they'd just act like decent capitalist proprietary software vendors and wait a year or so between releases.

Then it wouldn't be a problem to name it GNOME 99 followed by GNOME 2003 followed by GNOME 2005 ..

Or, if they insist on acting like free software communists, they could use some kinda funky notation like this: GNOME 9910, rather than October GNOME. That would resolve the is-March-GNOME-newer-or-older-than-October-GNOME question, seeing as how it contains the year AND the month, AND as an added bonus, it would make the program look all science fictiony. People might download it thinking that they're getting a far-future epic about trolls and dwarves and gnomes, as opposed to a free desktop environment.

Oh wait. That would mean that the February 2000 release would be GNOME 0002. That would suck. Maybe, to use a more Y2K compliant naming convention, it could be GNOME 200002. "Dude," people would say, "Check it out! GNOME is at version 200002, and KDE isn't even at version 2.0!That's um (counting on fingers) like, 5 orders of magnitude higher!"

Re:Nice try, but (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617714)

Hmm this really depends on your point of view. In one sense it is bloat to use lots of libraries if you never use any of those libraries for other apps - since you have an app installed for just one main program. OTOH the point of Linux dynamic libraries is to be able to link in the least possible so maing your apps as small as possible at runtime. For a projects point of view code reuse is an important aim so if there is someone else already maintaing a particular library why recreate the wheel. In GNOME's case there are a variety of advanced features built in to the system which really makes it a desktop environment and development framework so hence it does have a lot of dependencies. For example XML is being used for a lot of the config data hence you need a libXML the same applies for CORBA etc. However, just think of the size of the apps if the func for panel interaction had to be statically linked in and the general waste when every app had a copy of the XML functions within them!

Re:Gnome/KDE: for script kiddies and windoze wanna (1)

arielb (5604) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617715)

besides, if you want "themes" you can have them in windows too. Take reveal for example. http://reveal.unpaved.com/

Re:I believe them... (1)

Szoup (61508) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617716)

Gee, think October stands for the month of the release? Naw, that's too easy...

Subject/Verb Agreement (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617717)

I've noticed this error so many times on Slashdot, I must say something.

"Team" is a singular noun. "Have finished" is a plural verb phrase when used in the third person as this sentence uses it. They don't go together. This article should start with, "The Gnome team has finished. . . ." You wouldn't say "John have finished. . . ." would you?

Re:"Impressive stability improvements" ? (2)

Anders (395) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617718)

Sure, it is great they fix bugs instead of just moving forward with new features. I do not think that it is "impressive", though.

My point (which, judging by the moderation, I did not get accros too well :-) was that releasing software as version 1.0 when it is full of bugs is not too good, promotion wise. They called 1.0 stable, and now it turns out it was so buggy that the bugfixing alone is "impressive". It surely makes me wonder whether I can trust that this release is stable.

It reminds me of Windows, where Win95 was said to be so much more fun. And then Win98 commercials come along, stating that Win98 will take away the headache. (They had such commercials in Denmark, I do not know if it was world-wide. They had a box of painkillers of the brand "Windows 98" if I recall correctly).

I am a programmer. When I fix a bug, I apologize that I put it in in the first place. I do not celebrate myself as being the great bugfixer. It is merely the word "impressive" that I am against - not the bugfixing in itself. As I said, fixing bugs is great!
--

Re:Urlview (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617719)

I rather like start menus.

I just happen to like to bring mine up by right-clicking anywhere on the root window, so I use WindowMaker.

The latest version of WindowMaker lets you add folders to its application menu, and open its contents with any ol' command. I do use KDE's file manager, and the command I use is kfmclient -exec [filename], which does the same thing that clicking on the file in a kfm window would do. You can also use any ol' shell command to generate submenus, which allowed me to add my bookmarks to WindowMaker's app menu via a Perl script.

to many packages to download (1)

josepha48 (13953) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617720)

They have to many things to download for the base distribution. There are like 20 packages just to get the basic GOME installed. If it were not for the fact that distros like SuSE, Redhat, and Slackware to name a few, to include GNome on there cdroms, I'd never have tried gnome. Kde was much easier, there were 3 files to download to get the system up kdesupport, kdelibs and kdebase. Anything else was / is extra. Not to turn this into a desktop war, but don't you think that it would be easier to install there stuff if they did it this way? I have heard of many an experienced Linux user having problems getting gnome up and running. BTW I do like gnome very much, and my currentl desktop consists of windowwmaker window manager gnome task bar and kfm. A little bit of diversity never killed anyone :-)

Gnome must hate RedHat (1)

the_tsi (19767) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617721)

Anyone else notice that their releases tend to occur *immediately* after RedHat makes their CD image? Just in time so that it can't go on the next OS release. Something MUST be afoot. fnord

-Chris

Smooth upgrade... great new features (1)

planet_hoth (3049) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617722)

I downloaded the new October GNOME RPMs from one of the mirror sites, and they ran on my Red Hat 6.1 system w/o a hitch.

I use gftp to grab the entire directory of the ftp server. Then at the command line, cd into the new directory and run 'rpm -Uhv *.rpm"; very convenient!

The new features are great, a definate must-have for all GNOMErs out there... Stable as a rock, too.

Re: Debian packages? (1)

kenzoid (9370) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617723)

*grin*...At least you weren't in MY boat...I was (literally) in the middle of a 1.0 install, and the *.debs and instructions started disappearing!! Woohoo! Freaked me out; I finally found a mirror that hadn't taken down the gnome-1.0 directories, and finished. Freakin' Murphy's Law...of course, now I get to go home today and apt-get upgrade...

Huh? (1)

mattc (12417) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617724)

What is a dingus? Some kind of wild animal from Australia?

Better than RH 6.1???????? (1)

chris.bitmead (24598) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617725)

Is it worth upgrading whatever gnome comes with 6.1 RedHat to this new Gnome? Or are they so close it doesn't matter? I'm guessing that RH6.1 has a gnome only a few minor patches behind. Am I correct?

Re:More generic regex->action coupling (2)

Booker (6173) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617726)

That would work some of the time, but I'm guessing you'd get an error more often than not. Just because you're reading a file that contains "blah.txt" doesn't mean that "blah.txt" exists in your current directory.

On the other hand I suppose you could be more sophisticated and only make it hypertext if the file actually DOES exist in your directory...

What the hell are you talking about, Mr. AC? (1)

Puff (3954) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617727)

Nuff Said.

Re:More generic regex->action coupling (1)

mattc (12417) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617728)

Unix shouldn't use extensions to determine what the contents of a file is (personally I never use extensions except for graphics and source code). To find out what type of file something is, use the 'file' command-- it's really cool. If I want to name an C shell script "readme.txt" and the documentation "install.sh" I should be able to :-)

A dingo is a wild dog in Australia. (1)

Puff (3954) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617729)

:-)

Re:I believe them... (1)

mattc (12417) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617730)

Named after the October Revolution? I dunno, just guessing..

Re:Subject/Verb Agreement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617731)

who asked you?

Re:Use version number! (1)

Psiren (6145) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617732)

Read the documention,moron. Oh, that's right you microsoft types *DON'T* know how to read,do you?

Who wants to read the documentation of every package just to figure out the version numbers? nd sweeping statements about "microsoft types" just makes you look even worse. I don't use windows, either at work or at home. I'm afraid it's you who's the moron my friend.

Damn Hypocrites. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617733)

"I got annoyed by the KDE wanna-be-developers who started monitoring the GNOME IRC channel"

Miguel spent 24 hours a day on #kde for 2 weeks disrupting every argument with his babbling and whining, trying to convince every visitor that we are some sort of evil entity.

I used to respect Miguel before that.

Roberto Alsina, speaking for himself, not for KDE.

Re:Subject/Verb Agreement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617734)

I defy you to produce a cite where "the team have" is proper usage.

Ummm... a cite ??? You wouldn't mean citation would you ? :-)

Arguably the standard work in the UK on English usage is Fowler's Modern English Usage. According to the 3rd Edition (1996):

"Collective nouns: in British English it is in order to use either a plural verb or a singular verb after most collective nouns, so long as attendant pronouns are made to follow suit: when the just retires to consider its verdict; when the jury retire to consider their verdict. The same principle applies to all the main collectives like army, audience, clan, company, court, crew, folk, government, group, herd.

"By contrast in American English the choice is much more restricted. For such words the following verb and any attendant pronouns are usually in the singular.

"The principle at work is that if the collective noun is thought of as a unit, a singular verb or pronoun follows naturally; but if the members of the group are thought of as individuals a plural verb or pronoun is appropriate."

What a breakthrough (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617735)


One really nice new feature is dingus-clicking: you can click on a URL in the terminal and have Netscape come up.

OMG!! I have got to install this thing! :)

Re:Gnome/KDE: for script kiddies and windoze wanna (2)

DeathBunny (24311) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617736)

Ah yes? And your such a hotshot programmer?? Why don't you enlighten us by listing some of the programs you've created?


Didn't think so! :-)

Re:Subject/Verb Agreement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617737)

when the just retires to consider its verdict; when the jury retire to consider their verdict.

s/just/jury/ ... ooops

Re:Use version number! (2)

jilles (20976) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617738)

Another argument for not using a version number for large stuff such as operating systems and GNOME is that they are made up out of relatively independent components. A release should be seen as a collection of specific versions of those components. From this point of view, ms naming their latest release Windows 98 second edition is rather nice. It indicates that it is an incremental update over the original windows 98 (you might argue that it should actually be called windows 95 fourth/fifth edition).

Re:Subject/Verb Agreement (1)

jammer (4062) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617739)

Actually, you're both right and wrong here.

"Team" is a singluar noun -- but it is a singular noun representing a group composed of many individuals. Depending on the context, and your meaning, you could say "the team has" or "the team have". The former has more of an emphasis on the team as a whole, and, in this case, might be appropriate. The latter emphasises the individuality of the members of the group represented by the noun: "The team have been fighting about dinguses for months".

I am not a language lawyer. Just paid attention in my grammar courses.

Re:gnome suxX (1)

Warthog9 (100768) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617740)

Ok some random bable form me: 1) why the heck would you want to run stable, awsome software on windows? 2) gnome is based on gtk, and yes I know it's been ported, but gnome looks and acts a lot like the docking bar on windows.. admittedly it's a lot NICER but hey windows stinks sorry dude you've reached the world where windows sucks and the most innovating software that is being made right now is free, and for operating systems outside of the normal Windows or Mac worlds. sorry buddy but you need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Re:gnome suxX (1)

lamour (49437) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617741)

Dude! you need to wake up and drink the coffee. It was a joke. go buy a sense of humor.

Re:Perhaps you'd like a service pack? :) (1)

spitzak (4019) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617742)

Today, it seems, we've turned the tables. "30 packages? What a pain! Why don't they just give me one big package that I can click?"

Because the 21 bug patches are useful independently (moreso in that a few weeks ago there were only, say, 15, and if you had gotten those, you would only need to download 6 today).

With gnome is those 30 packages are effectively 1/30th of a big blob due to a web of interdependencies. Individually they are useless, or maybe worse than useless as they will break your old Gnome installation?

where are they anyway? (1)

cthonious (5222) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617743)

I looked for the debs on ftp.debian.org but all that seems to be there is the original slink ... apt-get is going to be a little painful over a modem. Sometimes I just want to burn a bunch of new stuff to cd and take it home.

Re:"Impressive stability improvements" ? (1)

MassacrE (763) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617744)

1.0 was the release of the API, not of 'GNOME' as a package. Unfortunately it was taken this way, and many of the components that are considered a part of gnome were not at 1.0 then (and still aren't last time I checked!)

RedHat 5.2 RPMS (2)

jthomas2 (102083) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617746)

Hey, I have Redhat 5.2 RPMS at:
ftp://saturn.aae.uiuc.edu/pub/gnome

Gnome and Java... (1)

selectap (30841) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617747)

(Disclaimer: a bit off topic...)

Has anyone tried running Java/Swing under Gnome? I enjoy using both KDE and Gnome, but KDE seems to run AWT/Swing far better than Gnome. This is with both Blackdown and IBM JDK's...

Re:Gnome/KDE: for script kiddies and windoze wanna (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617748)

> Ah yes? And your such a hotshot programmer?? Why don't you enlighten us by listing some of the programs you've created?

Gnome. By programmers, for programmers, and damn sure no one else.

Re:Subject/Verb Agreement (2)

scrytch (9198) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617749)

> I am not a language lawyer. Just paid attention in my grammar courses.

I defy you to produce a cite where "the team have" is proper usage.

Re:so is this the REAL version 1.0? (1)

tweek (18111) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617750)

I havea feeling with more and more mainstream desktop usage we, as the experienced users, are going to be getting more and more of these confused comments. We houls be prepared to instuct with gentle hands and not blast people for something that could be confusing.

For clarification:
WindowMaker, E, KWM, FVWM, Blackbox and similar are windowmanagers. Windowmanagers control placement of windows, decoration of titlebars and such.

gnome/kde are desktop environments. It sounds confusing but it's not. Gnome/KDE applications each have a common look and feel to them. Wether it be QT with kde or GTK with gnome. The only difference between kde/gnome other than the look is that kde comes with its own WindowManager (defined above). If anyone wants to add to this I can set up a webpage that has information on this somewhere. It seems rather important to me. Maybe a page for newbies with common misconceptions they may have?

Re:Subject/Verb Agreement (1)

jammer (4062) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617751)

Gladly.

Let's start out with http://www.faqs.org/faqs/alt-usage-english-faq/, search for 'company are'.

There. A single cite. Happy now?

But I will go on, just to prove the point.

http://www.hiway.co.uk/~ei/sect4.html.

B: When the individual members of the collective group are important, the verb is plural:

e.g. The police are protecting the town.

Or there is http://webster.commnet.edu/HP/pages/darling/gramma r/plurals.htm#collective_nouns

There are, further, so called collective nouns, which are singular when we think of them as groups and plural when we think of the individuals acting within the whole (which happens sometimes, but not often).

I have others. That's three times as many as you asked for. Need I go on?

What about.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617752)

named after "the hunt for red october"? after all they did "hunt" for bugs :)

forgot me login at home

Re:Feel embarrassed for GNOME developers (1)

frantzdb (22281) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617754)

KDE may be in the lead at the moment, but (IMHO) It's not "winning"

I recently tried KDE just to see what the fuss was about. It does do cool things, but I found it a bit kludgy in comparison to Gnome.
This is my personal oppinion, not ment as flame bait.)

just my 2e-2$

how does it work? (1)

Skeezix (14602) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617756)

I'm curious..how does the click-in-terminal thing work? I'm assuming this is only applicable to the GNOME terminal...

--Jamin Philip Gray
jamin@DoLinux.org

Re:RedHat 5.2 RPMS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617758)

Greetings Are there SRPM sources for this "October" release anywhere ? I tried a few mirrors without any luck. I plan to move to RH (or Mandrake) 6.1 soon from 5.2, and I'd rather not download the whole shebang again. thanks, BuN mpavan@mit.edu

Re:Use version number! (1)

Foogle (35117) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617765)

Hmm, I don't want to sound like a MS advocate here, but maybe it's not a bad thing that they aren't using a version number. Think about it. None of the "average users" out there want to deal with 1.blah.blah or 0.x.x. Microsoft did lots of marketing research in this area - let's take the hint. It's much easier, they discovered, to just remember a year, which coincided with a release data (sometimes). I think putting the identifier in front of the name is a little strange, but who knows - maybe it'll catch on.

I think, especially, the teams that get the most outside attention should develop alternative version schemes (keep the numbers, but have a second system for release names). It just adds to the polished effect. It bothers a lot of people that most Linux software is pre-1.0. You and I know that it's not the same as pre-1.0 in the Win-World, but aren't we trying to gain support from the outside now?

-----------

"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."

Re:Use version number! (1)

Psiren (6145) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617766)

It gets confusing though. There are so many packages within Gnome, and many of them have different version numbers. What comprises Gnome? And what is it's version number? Hard questions to answer. Personally I don't bother and stay clear of it anyway ;)

Pah :) (1)

altman (2944) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617767)

My ANTterm program on the Acorn did URL launching from a terminal window years ago...

Still, it's a good feature.

Hugo


Re: Debian packages? (1)

Cee (22717) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617768)

Umm... never mind. The deb packages seem to be up at the Debian FTP archive.

"Impressive stability improvements" ? (0)

Anders (395) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617769)

Come on, stability improvements cannot really be that impressive? I for one am not impressed that they manage to fix their own bugs. It should nearly always be the number one priority for any programmer.

I am impressed that they rushed 1.0 out the door so soon that it took them this long to get it stable (if it is stable now). I gave up on Gnome due to all the bugs, and KDE being stable is no excuse for rushing a buggy 1.0 out the door.
--

gnome suxX (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617770)

i trid to get it to run under windows 95, but it would'nt work. somone said i needed a complier to get it working but i thought my system was fully complient?

pls help!

z3r0K3wl859@aol.com

Re:Magic URL feature (1)

elbobo (28495) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617771)

granted that's some cleverness there, but the gnome-terminal implimentation is a step nicer. Move the mouse pointer over a URL and it underlines it so you can see what string it will pass through, then just one click and it pops up a new netscape window with it. nifty

el bobo

RedHat RPM's vs Gnome RPM's (2)

Thomas Charron (1485) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617772)

I seem to remember a time with 5.2 when I attempted to update the GTK and glib RPM's using Gnome's RPM's, and it really, REALLY broke things. I ended up backing out of the RPM, and then 6.0 came out. Now that we're at 6.1, and idea of Gnome.org's RPM's will update 6.1's RPM's without a hitch?

I'll just go compile it up on my Slackware system, but I dare not touch comnpiling on the RedHat machine for fear the wrath of the RPM discrepency demon..

Re:More generic regex->action coupling (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617773)

There is not enough context to map 'blah.txt' to an actual file on disk, thats basically why.

Anyway, it IS implemented as a generic regex-action mapping in the zvt widget, its just that gnome-terminal has only loaded a url regular expression and a browser 'action'.

It will probably be more configurable in a future release - there wasn't much time this time around. And other programs like x-chat will easily be able to add similar point-and-click functions if they want too (which is probably a nicer feature).

NotZed
(who can't remember his password atm)
(who can't believe this is a 'headline' feature of gnome-1.0.53)

"KDE wanna-be-developers" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617774)

Take from
http://people.redhat.com/sopwith/og/. Does this mean that the GNOME and KDE projects are diverging again?



I got annoyed by the KDE wanna-be-developers who started monitoring the GNOME
IRC channel to find this "precious gem of knowledge" URL, and thus have moved
the mentioned files into a different directory.

I just get really annoyed/angry when people claiming to bear a white flag of
peace, claiming to want cooperation, and claiming to care about the future of
the desktop have nothing better to do than watch the GNOME hackers at work.

The two files are in ../og-old if you want to read them. E-mail me if you
have any questions as to why things were worded the way they were in the
press release & announcement. I have nothing to hide.

If you prefer IRC, stop by irc.gimp.org #gnome some time.

Thank you for your time.



-- Elliot Lee

Dansk anoncering (1)

llephaane (102113) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617775)

Hermed annonceres udgivelsen af

- O k t o b e r G N O M E -
(version 1.0.53)

Det glæder GNOME projektet at kunne annoncere tilstedeværelsen
af "Oktober GNOME". Denne nye version kommer med et stabilt,
nem-at-bruge, og kraftfuld skrivebords miljø for brugere af UNIX-
lignende operativ systemer såsom GNU/Linux.

===> Hvad er GNOME?

GNU Network Object Model Environment'et (GNOME) er et gratis
skrivebords miljø for UNIX-lignende systemer, som tillader brugere
at udføre basis systemopgaver, såsom filhåndtering og ændring af
brugergrænsefladen uden at skulle benytte svære og komplicerede
kommandoer ved kommando prompten

GNOME kommer med et kraftfuldt grafisk miljø, som gør det nemt at
benytte UNIX-lignede systemer. Ved brug af træk-og-slip filhåndteringen
kan brugere manipulere filer og skrivebords ikoner. Komplet kontrol
over brugergrænsefladens "look and feel" er mulig via kontrol centeret,
som tillader brugere at opnå maksimal komfort og produktivitet gennem
forskellige udseende-temaer og andre indstillinger. GNOME panelet, det
centrale element på GNOME skrivebordet, er en fleksibel og meget
konfigurerbar element der bl.a. kan benyttes til at starte programmer og
forskellige redskaber.

National sprog understøttelse gør det mulig for brugere at opleve/bruge
GNOME på næsten 30 forskellige sprog, og sprogholdene arbejder næsten
konstant på at øge antallet af understøttede sprog.

For udviklere, kommer GNOME med en standard applikation ramme
(framework). Dette sikre en konsistent grænseflade som brugere let kan
lære. Applikations rammen gør det mulig for udviklere nemt at benytte
forskellige teknologier, såsom CORBA, træk-og-slip, GNOMEs kanvas/
billede model, XML, libglade, og programmeringssprog uafhængighed
til at bygge særdeles kraftige applikationer.

===> Hvad er nyt i Oktober GNOME?

Forbedringer:

. Imponerende stabilitets forbedringer tillader bekymrings-fri brug.

. Tilgængelige funktioner i de centrale applikationer er blevet
udvidet og forbedret

. Samarbejde mellem GNOME udviklerne er mere behagelig, takket
være en simpliceret problem reporterings proces.

. Mange flere sprogoversættelser er blevet tilføjet af GNOME oversættelses
projektet.

. "Magisk url" funktionen i terminal "widget'en" tillader web integration
med alm. applikationer.

. Glade brugergrænseflade udviklingsværktøj tilføjet.

. XChat irc klient tilføjet.

. CORBA grænseflade tilføjet for vigtige skrivebords servicer.

. Mange tilføjelser til GNOMEs flotte farvede ikoner fra GNOME ikon
projektet

===> Hvordan installerer jeg Oktober GNOME?

For instruktioner om hvordan man installere denne nye udgave, besøg
venligst 'Kom igang' siden på http://www.gnome.org/start/

Udover kildekoden, er forkompilerede pakker tilgængelig for Red Hat,
Caldera og SuSE Linux distributionerne. - og pakker for andre Linux
distributioner er under vej.

===> Hvordan kan jeg få hjælp til at bruge GNOME?

Hjælp er tilgængelig via en bred række at forskellige medier, såsom
postlister, irc kanaler og online dokumentation. Besøg venligst websiden
på http://www.gnome.org/ for mere information.

God fornøjelse,
-- GNOME holdet

Dansk annoncering af Kenneth Christiansen







APT I SAY! (1)

syntax (2932) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617776)

Achtung Debian user!
Incase you aren't aware of it, the most redeeming feature of Debian is apt! I have it crontab'd to update my entire distro every night, just edit your sources file for the unstable, and `apt-get dist-upgrade`... mmmmmm.

Re:Better than RH 6.1???????? (1)

boc (1650) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617777)

In a word, definitely.

There is some pretty large brokenness in the GNOME that was shipped with RH 6.1. The dingus clicking doesn't work, and there are quite a few crashes that were fixed in the time between RH 6.1 and gnome 1.0.53.

He's flaming me, that's what my other post was. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617778)

This was a response to a thread posted on the KDE story a few days ago (last post there), and he sits there flaming me (no I wasn't the AC to make that post, although I did say something similiar on the mailing lists). Now he thinks we are all sitting on IRC watching him. I for one know I have better things to do - like continuing to code for KDE2... I only was on Gnome IRC once and that was to try to start a joint effort on the Gimp. But this kind of behaviour is becoming expected. mosfet@kde.org

Re:Feel embarrassed for GNOME developers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617779)



KDE may be in the lead at the moment, but (IMHO) It's not "winning". I recently tried KDE just to see what the fuss was about. It does do cool things,

Well you obviously tried KDE 1.x which is the most widely used desktop around. But the 1.x-tree hasn't been touched by most KDE-developers since more than half a year now (only some minor fixes have been added for KDE 1.1.2). Since then people are working hard on KDE 2 which already has much better theming and many more and superior features and technologies (html & java, CORBA, Kanossa, excellent multimedia-framework e.g.) than GNOME has. The developers of KOffice are even working since more than a year now on kword, kpresenter, etc.. .
If you're looking at the bleeding edge of both projects it's obvious which project 'will' 'win' -- and it's not GNOME ....

AC

BTW: In doubt at least the user wins ...

Re:Hey, elliot - where did you put the real releas (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617781)

Eliot:
people.redhat.com/sopwith/og/ [redhat.com]
The real press releases:
people.redhat.com/sopwith/og-old/ [redhat.com]

It's recommended (1)

EarthTone (12574) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617783)

Yes, get the new GNOME packages - just download them to a directory, then, switch to root, do "rpm -Uvh *" and a clean GNOME upgrade should ensue. LOTS of good updates, features, and fixes. Then, sit back and be productive!!

Re:so is this the REAL version 1.0? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617785)

I think this would be a great idea, if it doesn't already exist. i just upgraded to Mandrake 6.1, and I'm checking around to see which windowmanagers work better on my system than others.

I'd like to know the differences between E, ICEWM, WindowMaker (is that one? my brain hurts right now), etc. Examples such as what are the good features, vs. memory footprint and speed, etc. And how they relate to various environments like KDE and GNOME. (and ways of changing, via scripts. I don't like clicking on GUI buttons to change things when all it does is change a script, i'd rather fix it up myself).

Apologies if this doesn't make sense, i'm a semi-newbie, and AC. IMHO, however, this would make great info for other people than just myself.

Re:Downloading 30+ new packages ??????? (2)

Thomas Charron (1485) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617793)

You could always setup autorpm to look at the updates directory on gnome's ftp site.

Gnome/KDE: for script kiddies and windoze wannabe (1)

figlet (83424) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617794)

I know this is flame bait, but someone has to speak up:

Why all the excitement for these sugar coating GUIs (KDE, GNOME, YADM). Do i really give a ph*ck about themes? Can i impress the people in my office with the incredibly baroque-looking desktop i can configure? Can i write a 100 line Perl CGI?

These are for script kiddies, Perl schmucks and wintel wannabes. You want to develop, make real applications, all you need is emacs, some good elisp packages, and a clean desktop. Yes, I agree that things like the CORBA interfaces to desktop service is an excellent idea. Yes, I know that htere are more than developers out there and they have there needs too. But all you out there talk about is themes, and and whether it plays solitaire and trivial sh*t like that. Don't pretend.

Re:Use version number! (2)

renoX (11677) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617795)

The difference between Microsoft and Gnome is that Microsoft do much less release, their release are numbered by the year of the release.

Gnome release much more often, so they have to use the month! Why not say something like "The October Gnome Release v1.0.35", it gives more informations and it isn't that much longer.

BTW, I really do like the Linux version numbering scheme, odd subnumber for developer release and even subnumber for stable release. A good idea TM.

Re:Magic URL feature - Apple Data Detectors (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617796)

A few years back, Apple released a nifty little extension set that would "detect" what sort of text the user had selected (anywhere), be it a name, address, phone number, URL, etc... and allow user to use it in various ways via a contextual menu. It's still freely available, but I haven't heard Apple mention it in over a year, I guess they're too busy pushing iWhatever and Sherlock. Either that or its all part of the one-button mouse conspiracy.

Re:RedHat RPM's vs Gnome RPM's (1)

mrogers (85392) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617797)

I run Gnome, compiled from tarballs, on a Red Hat 5.2 box. It works fine. Just make sure you use up-to-date versions of glib, gtk and GIMP, removing the Red Hat RPMs of those packages before you start compiling them.

But then you'll miss out on Gnovember Gnome! (2)

Chuck Chunder (21021) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617798)

I guess the (or at least one) 'problem' they face is that Gnome is made up of loads of different bits with different (yet often similar) version numbers and that adding a version number to the whole package may confuse/mislead (ie people expecting Gnome 1.0.50 to contain 1.0.50 versions of gnome-core, gnome-libs etc etc).

I think a named release isn't a bad idea.

The Great Chunder Page - Alcohol Induced Fun!

Why didn't you do it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617799)

The subject says it all. From what you say, it doesn't sound that hard. Go forth, brother.

Re:Downloading 30+ new packages ??????? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617800)

I agree. But, it would be nice if, instead of just having all the libraries listed, if they also had one big fat tarball with all the rpm's in it. Then, you could click once, it gets downloaded (so it takes a while :) ) and then you untar and then install. Makes it much more palatable for people...

Re:Gnome/KDE: for script kiddies and windoze wanna (1)

rde (17364) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617801)

I know this is flame bait, but someone has to speak up
We should all respond to flame bait once in a while, so here I go...

You're making the fundamental /.er mistake; assuming that everything in the world is designed for your exclusive benefit. The ultimate aim of Linux is to appeal to the masses, and the only way it can do that is with themes, solitaire and trivial shit like that. If it pisses you off, don't use it.

On the subject of pissed off, what does 'sh*t' mean? If you're going to swear, do it properly. If you're not, there are plenty of acceptable alternatives that don't require punctuation.

Re:gnome suxX (1)

palp (90815) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617802)

can't help but laugh at this.

zero cool, eh?
hahahahhahahaha.

It's the apps, stupid. (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617811)

Ok, I'll bite. Gnome & KDE are MUCH MORE than graphical environments. The graphical shell is more an afterthought; it's the LIBRARIES that mean something. It has nothing to do with 'script kiddies and perl hackers'.

Take a browse on freshmeat...check out all the KDE & GNOME apps that have appeared recently. There's some REALLY good stuff in there, and we can thank KDE and GNome for that. The KDE & Gnome development libraries make it REALLY easy to make an attractive, relatively complex program that WORKS with other programs, hot off the compiler.

You're right though; themes are a distraction and a performance hog in the end. But shiny themes are going to help pry newbies away from Bill's world.

And you know what the BEST thing about themes is? YOU CAN TURN THEM OFF. Hell, turn the whole desktop environment off, run TWM...you still get the benefit of KDE & Gnome when you fire up KOffice or Gnumeric.

Urlview (1)

ffatTony (63354) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617812)

ever heard of urlview? It pops up a window after parsing some text (or an email message) displaying all that url-like items. You simply click a key and it loads your favorite browser with the url.

I couldn't find a link to urlview's homepage, but you can find info about it in Mutt's [mutt.org] manual or at filewatcher [filewatcher.org]

Re:Nice try, but (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617813)

No that isn't bloat. Bloat is when you create new libraries using copy and paste instead of using common small libraries.

Re:Gnome/KDE: for script kiddies and windoze wanna (2)

jflynn (61543) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617814)

Ok, I'm biting :) Seriously, though your tone is flamish I think you raise a good question.

What do desktops have to do with developers? I develop from within a terminal window or a bare CLI and it sounds like you do too. This is true whether I'm working on Linux or Windows.

Desktops are for users.

Users like solitaire and desktop configurability.

Companies write drivers and most software for users, not developers. Open source, up til now, has been mostly written for developers. If you are satisfied developing Windows software on Linux with a paucity of drivers, that may be sufficient, otherwise users have to like Linux too.

This is not to say that creating a slim and mean desktop for development might not be a good idea, but extending the OS to users is more important just now.

Re:Gnome/KDE: for script kiddies and windoze wanna (4)

grrussel (260) | more than 14 years ago | (#1617815)

/* I know this is flame bait, but someone has to speak up: */

Elitist? Why not...

/* Why all the excitement for these sugar coating GUIs (KDE, GNOME, YADM). */

Because for the first time since its inception, X can be used in a consistent manner if a user so chooses? Because Ease of Use is finally delivered?
Becasue we no longer need to think about syntax of Window Manager Configuration files?

/* Do i really give a ph*ck about themes? */

Do you really want a desktop in varying shades of ugly grey?

/* Can i impress the people in my office with the incredibly baroque-looking desktop i can configure? */

Windows User - hey, its like Windows
NeXTStep User - hey, its like...
OS/2, Mac, Acorn, Amiga User......

Get the picture?

/* Can i write a 100 line Perl CGI? */

In the easy to use, syntax highlighting editor with KDE yes, with Gnome, more than likely. Look ma! - programming without vi or emacs - editing made easy.

/* These are for script kiddies, Perl schmucks and wintel wannabes */

And people whose money will support hardware, software and ease of use development for Linux, while providing jobs for Unix geeks who program, document and package Linux. Sounds good to me.

/* You want to develop, make real applications, all you need is emacs, some good elisp packages, and a clean desktop */

A compiler always helps, too.

Emacs sucking is another flamewar - but the UI of eother vi or emacs is hostile to point and click, or even casual explanation. It can be mastered, to award yourself points for mastering the trivia of Unix.

A clean desktop - is this one with NO desktop functionality and a bunch of xterms? - thought so.

/* I agree that things like the CORBA interfaces to desktop service is an excellent idea. Yes, I know that htere are more than developers out there and they have there needs too /*

Nice to see them addressed after 20+ years of Unix.

/* But all you out there talk about is themes, and and whether it plays solitaire and trivial sh*t like that. Don't pretend. */

Themes are optional, and trendy, and playing solitaire is vital to the health of any office worker using Windows, and finally having a desktop to discuss is not trivial shit, given the wait Unix has had to get a desktop.

George Russell

Mr Peabody can I borrow your wayback machine? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1617816)

Let me guess. It isn't a real computer unless you can hear the tickety-tickety-clak-clak of the teletype and your bitchin' home-spun linux driver can load 100 punch cards an hour.

Maybe you should start your comments "Back in my day..."
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...