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Gentoo on the PS3 - Full Install Instructions

CmdrTaco posted more than 7 years ago | from the white-knight-hasn't-shipped-yet-anyway dept.

239

An anonymous reader writes "My friend Jake just bought a PS3, and he wanted to install Linux on it. Since he didn't know much about Linux, it was my responsibility to help him with it. His requirements — Install a distribution which is easy to maintain and run. He wanted to make the full use of his Linux install, so he needed a distro which wouldn't hold him back with frustrating problems. The only solution was using a distro which had a better package management system, and did its work without bothering you, the end user. Having used Gentoo extensively, I knew that this would be the solution to my problems. What follows is full install instructions, plus personal opinions, on why Gentoo is better than Fedora Core or YDL on the PS3"

cancel ×

239 comments

How much did Gentoo get for this? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17539172)

Come on, this just sounds like another fanboy slashvertisement. Gentoo is a decent operating system (although I'm not a fan myself) but half of the description is just telling how great it is and how good it is for a newbie, a fact many people would disagree with. How about keeping the descriptions on topic? On the other hand this is slashdot.

Re:How much did Gentoo get for this? (4, Insightful)

eln (21727) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539580)

This post is not flamebait, the article summary is flamebait. The summary is basically a troll about why Gentoo is the greatest Linux distro ever and every other distro sucks.

The summary was clearly written by a Gentoo fanboy, as the "requirements" he lists are fairly common, and it's definitely arguable that Gentoo would be the best (or even in the top 5) distro to solve the particular issues he brings up. His friend asked for a distro recommendation, so he (surprise!) recommends the distro he's used "extensively" and then proceeds to slam the other major distros. Flame. Bait.

Re:How much did Gentoo get for this? (0, Troll)

Bandman (86149) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539774)

Hey, when all you have is a hammer...

Also, if you put the Type-R sticker on the PS3 Gnome will compile in less time with tighter code. /the more you know

Re:How much did Gentoo get for this? (5, Interesting)

smallfries (601545) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540318)

OK, I am a big fan of Gentoo and use it on all my boxes .... but this article is trash. It's not just the summary that is flamebait. The "reasons" for why Gentoo is superior to Fedora in the article are laughable. But the worst point, truely one of the worst tips that I've ever heard, is the idea that when the installation is too hard for a newbie they get can an "expert" to remotely install it for them on irc. Sure, tell people who don't know better than getting owned by a script-kiddie on irc is a reason to use Gentoo...

CmdrTaco = loser (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17539696)

Months and months of articles telling us how crappy the PS3 is compared to the Wii and even the PS3.

But hey, now that Linux runs on it, it's great. When Linux is involved, slashdotters are like flies on shit.

Linux on the desktop as a whole can be arguably useful or useless. Linux on the PS3 is totally useless.

Linux is the worst current OS. PS3 is the worst current console. The two seem to go together indeed.

Re:CmdrTaco = loser (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539992)

Ye gods! I have never seen such bait for flame!

Overkill (5, Interesting)

Ganniterix (863430) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539216)

I really think that someone taking his first steps in linux world should not be left out in the cold with Gentoo!! Gentoo has its benefits ... but being user friendly to beginners is definitely not one of them!!

Re:Overkill (1, Troll)

rtyall (960518) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539354)

Of course it will, think about how much they'll learn when they spend 3 days trying to get a game to work in a usable X window, having to check the gentoo forums every 5 minutes to see if anyone can help.
I can't think of a better way to spend my hard earned £550 when they come out in the UK.

Re:Overkill....not (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17539366)

i've a different view, i've used some linux distro back in the 90's (SUSE mainly) but in 2001 when I've decided to start to learn more about and - eventually using a linux distro as my main desktop - I've (re)started with gentoo and here are the main point that i love about it:

1. do everything by "hand" - this way you learn a bit more about the OS "bricks" and you stop calling everything "linux", just the kernel...
2. Best documentation around
3. Best documentation around

sure it takes sometimes to get to a usable system, but after that i think you've got a better view of the system and are more able to diagnose/correct some problem you may get, and more you are no more afraid of the console

but i must admit that this day i use ubuntu on my main desktop (gentoo is still around on server and x(media)box)

Re:Overkill (4, Insightful)

ArcherB (796902) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539416)

I really think that someone taking his first steps in linux world should not be left out in the cold with Gentoo!! Gentoo has its benefits ... but being user friendly to beginners is definitely not one of them!!

The hard part of Gentoo is setting it up and that's really by choice. I've set it up from both stage 1 and 3 and trust me, there is a huge difference. However, once Gentoo is set up, it's cake to maintain. I'd go as far to say that it is the easiest distro I've ever used when it comes to installing software if it is set up correctly. As long as it is set to sync the portage tree regularly (via Cron) and GUI tools such as Porthole or Kuroo, maintenance is a breeze. May I suggest checking out a Gentoo based OS like Sabayon or Vida.

*Disclaimer: This message typed on a Sabayon powered system.

Re:Overkill (2, Insightful)

dhasenan (758719) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540098)

It has plenty of documentation. Of all the Linux distributions I've used or viewed, it has the best.

And the unfriendliness comes mainly in forcing you to edit config files. When I was using Gentoo, I let the system go for a few months (didn't have an Internet connection) and tried updating (just the security updates, mind)...over two hundred config files needed updating, some of which were required to continue the upgrade process. X was broken, and I didn't have the time to spend fixing everything.

Gentoo has a high cost for maintenance, but it's manageable if you keep up to date--you only have to look at five or ten config files a week. And if you use one of the tools developed for this (I don't recall the names), you can eliminate most of the work (for instance, a config file you haven't touched is replaced automatically).

Re:Overkill (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540250)

You count contend that is also the best way to cut your teeth. A few years back someone gave me a Mandrake CD, and Linux lasted all of three days on my PC. That was my only Linux experience. Then I decided to give Gentoo a shot as a total newb, and learned a lot.

I don't know why people say you can't start with Gentoo. I think it is the place to start.

Re:Overkill (2, Informative)

hawg2k (628081) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540316)

It does, however, have an excellent user forum that the user community leverages to provide a lot of help to people in need. They also have a lot of excellent HOW-TO documents for various aspects of Gentoo configuration.

I'm not arguing that Gentoo is easy, but if the person is brand new to Linux he's going to have lot's of questions and need a lot of help regardless of distro. If this person is also a very technically saavy person, Gentoo seems as good a distro as any, because of the great help one can get (mentioned above).

My 2 cents.

Yay, that'd be cool (1)

JamesP (688957) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539218)

Only 3 days to compile everything...

(cue the "but you wont compile everything there, it wont'b as fast without using the SPUs, etc, etc")

Re:Yay, that'd be cool (1)

cyanid3 (998026) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539298)

Read. Most of the required stuff is already available as pre-compiled binaries which have been compiled ON the PS3, unlike YDL or Fedora Core, which have PPC binaries.

dependencies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17539224)

Ever heard of APT or YUM ?

fwyzard

Re:dependencies (1)

cyanid3 (998026) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539384)

Yeah. I've spent the last month helping people sort out their issues with Linux on the PS3. And messing around with repositories is frustrating. OTOH, with Gentoo, an emerge will surely install whatever you want, without having to add repositories or downloading RPMs of applications which aren't available thru repos.

Re:dependencies (1)

jimstapleton (999106) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539804)

Yes...

Yum makes Windows Updates look stable, reliable and fast. I never want to see that buggy steaming pile again...

APT is better, almost tolerable, but you still have issues with it occasionally, at least I did.

Gentoo's system does the same thing, but I found the granularity of control is better documented. This means that I can use it in the same fashion as I'd use Yum or APT - namely tell it what I want, and it'll do the work, but additionally, I can more easily perform simple tweaks to fix problem packages. Also, I never found any way in Yum and APT to get a listing of what packages were available, and what specific names to use for them. I know that such exists, but the documentation isn't as good, and when there's a setup that lets me parse a nicely ordered directory structure and/or do keyword searches with the included metadata (a-la emerge or BSD ports), why the hell would I want to go back to Yum or APT.

The documentation makes the application as much as the coding.

Re:dependencies (2, Interesting)

bobintetley (643462) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540116)

Look, I also like Ports, but come on - how long would it have taken for you to Google:

apt-cache search
yum search

To search package names and metadata?

I like and use both FreeBSD and Gentoo, but there's no need to disparage the great work done by other distros to justify your choices.

Re:dependencies (1)

smoker2 (750216) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540166)

Also, I never found any way in Yum and APT to get a listing of what packages were available, and what specific names to use for them. I know that such exists, but the documentation isn't as good,
man yum

LIST OPTIONS

The following are the ways which you can invoke yum in list mode. Note
that all list commands include information on the version of the pack-
age.

yum list [all | regexp1] [regexp2] [...]
List all available and installed packages.

yum list available [regexp1] [...]
List all packages in the yum repositories available to be
installed.

yum list updates [regexp1] [...]
List all packages with updates available in the yum reposito-
ries.

yum list installed [regexp1] [...]
List the packages specified by args. If an argument does not
match the name of an available package, it is assumed to be a
shell-style glob and any matches are printed.

yum list extras [regexp1] [...]
List the packages installed on the system that are not available
in any yum repository listed in the config file.

yum list obsoletes [regexp1] [...]
List the packages installed on the system that are obsoleted by
packages in any yum repository listed in the config file.

yum list recent
List packages recently added into the repositories.

Specifying package names
All the list options mentioned above take file-glob-syntax wild-
cards or package names as arguments, for example yum list avail-
able foo* will list all available packages that match foo*.

That took me longer to paste it than to find it.

What? (2)

Punker22 (844641) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539234)

I'm not sure what you're smoking but Gentoo is a pain in the but to install, and I'm not sure what you mean by a better package management system than say fedora.... this post seems more like a flame towards other distros and how much better gentoo is than anything.

Re:What? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17539518)

No you are smoking im typing this from the gentoo livcd install with the gtk instller.
Using the GPR sets it is not harder than you make it.

Re:What? (1)

Punker22 (844641) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539690)

Wow you mean that Gentoo is so great you can use a livecd and actually type?!?! yea so can just about every other distro so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here.

Re:What? (3, Insightful)

DrXym (126579) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540094)

Especially on a PS3. While the PS3 makes a cool Linux machine, I expect that while you are waiting for Gentoo to compile on it that you may as well start a family, raise them up, and watch them have kids. Then finally if you're lucky, the build will have completed before your time on this earth is up.

Anyway, the PS3 is absolutely the last machine you should ever, ever need Gentoo on. Every single PS3 is exactly the same. There is no need to "optimise" a build for a PS3 simply because the build should be optimal anyway, assuming you pick a dist which targets the PS3 exclusively. It's not like x86 where you have a gazillion different processors and devices that you might get some measurable gain by tweaking a build switch or two.

Re:What? (1)

Slashcrap (869349) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540420)

and I'm not sure what you mean by a better package management system than say fedora....

Perhaps he means less likely to shit itself at random times for obscure reasons?

The ability to install multiple versions of the same package without causing yourself brain damage?

A command line package management tool that doesn't suck so bad that it forces you to use the graphical tools that actually do 21st Century stuff like dependency resolution but which when then turn out to suck even harder?

I'm not really a fan of Gentoo, but your comment seems to imply that the Fedora package management tools don't suck donkey cock. The only way I can imagine anyone holding that opinion would be if that was the only one they'd ever used.

And exactly which part of the Gentoo installation did you find so scary? Partitioning your hard drive without a graphical tool to hold your hand? Installing the boot loader? Compiling the kernel? Actually reading the install document - you know, the one that explains everything in detail and assumes almost no prior knowledge?

If you find those things so hard, why are you even using Linux?

In my opinion there are only 3 Linux distros that get package management right - Slackware, Debian and Gentoo. Everything else is just a mess of hacks and poor design caused by their desire to cater to people like you.

And yes, I know Fedora supports APT. But it still uses it to install RPMs and the whole RPM system is fucked up by design. If you're going to argue with this point, please first download and read Maximum RPM. I know it's old and out of date - they've added plenty more suckage since then.

bleh (-1, Offtopic)

operato (782224) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539238)

hi, my is galore... popup galore

Only if you use linux... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17539244)

Your zealotish part gets excited

This has to be a troll (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17539246)

I'm serious there is no way GENTOO just works for him. No windows users expects to wait 15 hours for something like KDE to compile.
I make my own operating system!

Wow (2)

SNR monkey (1021747) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539254)

This whole summary seems to be slamming non-Gentoo Linux distros.. The author was right to submit anonymously, if he hadn't, he would have been burnt to a crisp.

Re:Wow (2, Insightful)

fistfullast33l (819270) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539736)

The whole article is pretty dumb IMO. I'm a gentoo user, I like gentoo, but I don't need a reason to install it on my PS3. Instead, I need instructions on how to install it for my PS3 with Cell support. The article isn't really about Gentoo on the PS3, it's about why Gentoo is better than YDL or Red Hat on the PS3. This is just a huge flamebait article.

Re:Wow (2, Insightful)

gfxguy (98788) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540024)

I agree the article is dumb, but I think it's even worse:
My friend Jake just bought a PS3, and he wanted to install Linux on it. Since he didn't know much about Linux,...

Why on earth would someone who doesn't know much about Linux want to install in on a PS3, of all things.

That's a nice experiment for geeks, and I'm sure there's potential, but it's not partiularly useful for someone who doesn't know much about Linux.

My Killer PS3 Linux App - Video Encoding (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17539258)

Having seen the insane speed Cell handles encoding and decoding video I would love to have something setup so I can run Linux on my PS3 machine and have it function as a network video encoding device. Converting/Encoding to h.264 format is painfully slow on x86 based systems, so it would be great to be able to have an app that allows you to queue up movies files and farm the encoding off to a PS3 to tear through the files.

Probably too much to ask for, would love to do it myself but I'm not a programmer.

I really want to get into the PS3 Linux stuff since keyboard and mouse stuff works perfectly, but I'm too busy playing Resistance online - 40 player lagfree matches are fucking insane.

That might be awesome (4, Funny)

Canthros (5769) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539270)

if only I couldn't buy an actual computer for less than it would cost to buy a PS3.

Re:That might be awesome (4, Funny)

chris_eineke (634570) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539448)

I find my computers in the ditch, you insensitive clod!

Re:That might be awesome (4, Funny)

Lord Bitman (95493) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539692)

stay out of my ditch!

Re:That might be awesome (1)

codyk (857932) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539816)

Good luck finding a computer that quiet for less than $499 . . . much less one with a blu-ray drive.

Re:That might be awesome (1)

Canthros (5769) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540110)

Because Blu-Ray is a critical feature for Linux right now? (And I think you mean $599.)

There are plenty of reasonably quiet miniITX rigs about. I'm sure they're not completely silent, but I'd bet that they're quiet enough. And, in the meantime, they'll be smaller and upgradeable.

Re:That might be awesome (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540308)

You can buy them for $500, unless you absolutely need the wifi built in. Sony said they weren't going to really try and stop modders from putting in larger HDDs themselves. Just as it is plain stupid to buy a $300 360, it is pretty stupid to buy the $600 PS3.

Re:That might be awesome (2, Funny)

somersault (912633) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540262)

My PS3 farm is so quiet, it's almost like Sony didn't produce enough to send any into my country before March!!

Why not a PC (1)

ShadowsHawk (916454) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539274)

**Disclaimer: I have limited experience with Linux** Ignoring the cell, is there a reason to use the PS3 instead of a PC? I've never run into any distro that is hugely processor intensive. I'm guessing most of us have a cast of 500 Mhz PC that would work fine for tinkering so that you could avoid the $600 entry fee.

Re:Why not a PC (3, Funny)

ArcherB (796902) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539450)

is there a reason to use the PS3 instead of a PC?

YES
Because you can!

Re:Why not a PC (1)

the_humeister (922869) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539486)

I'd have to say 'no' unless you want to do development for Cell. Otherwise, it's just another Linux distribution on a PowerPC architecture.

Re:Why not a PC (2, Interesting)

dahl_ag (415660) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539700)

With 218GFLOPS available on the CPU (not considering disabled daughter cores) the PS3 has way more floating point number crunching power than your average P4. At least an order of magnitude more. While MOST users have no need for this power, some do. I myself play with designing neural networks that would definately benefit from this power. Other applications that come to mind include things like Folding@Home and SETI@Home.

Re:Why not a PC (1)

ShadowsHawk (916454) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539790)

And that would be two great uses of the processing power of a PS3. I suppose I should have framed my question as "for the average linux user". I do appreciate the input though.

PC3?? (1)

TheCybernator (996224) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539998)

may be author meant PC3 and not PS3 :))

Re:Why not a PC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17540138)

Two words: MythTv Frontend.

Re:Why not a PC (1)

Peter Greenwood (211400) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540536)

Presumably, the owner mainly wanted a games console but thought it might be handy to have general purpose computing available as and when necessary?

And not everyone has space for a "cast-off 500MHz PC" as well as the games machine.

Linux Cell SDK (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17539292)

Developers: grab the Linux Cell SDK from here:

http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/cellsw?open&S_T ACT=105AGX16&S_CMP=DWPA [ibm.com]

Now that there is a readily available and fairly cheap consumer-level computer with a kick-ass Cell processor in it, it's time we start modifying some code to take advantage of it. Some libraries/applications that may benefit from the Cell include libdv, libxvidcore, libjpeg, libGL, libogg, libmp3lame, mplayer, xine, and mythtv, just for starters.

Re:Linux Cell SDK (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540196)

Exactly. If you crack open the Mesa (OpenGL) source, you can see that it plugs into various backends. The PS3 graphics driver is framebuffer only which implies you'd be stuck with a software backend. However there are 6 SPUs sitting there doing nothing... It must be possible to feed them with vector transformations, shading etc and have performance somewhat comparable to an IGP. Not stellar but enough to enjoy some games and desktop eye candy.

questions (4, Insightful)

kv9 (697238) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539302)

Since he didn't know much about Linux, it was my responsibility to help him with it.

* if he doesn't know the first thing about Linux, what does he need it for? on a PS3 of all things

he wants to learn the ropes you say? OK

* why doesn't he install it on his own? no better way to do it and the interwebs are full of documentation

this is not meant to be flamy in any way. I was just wondering how come everyone wants penguin power these days, but at the same time they are not willing to invest time/sweat in it.

Re:questions (1)

shirizaki (994008) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539372)

Because they want the perks without the work. That, and they expect it to be as caveman-like as windows is.

They don't want to have to learn how to do command line and compiling stuff. Not that you need to be well versed in both of these thigns to use linux, but it's like not running disk defrag or Anti Virus in Windows, you just don't do it.

Re:questions (2, Insightful)

Chutulu (982382) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539550)

Because most people just want a system that works. They have better thing to do in life than to learn the core of a new operating system. They just want stuff to work. Because of people like you, Linux will never go mainstream.

Re:questions (1)

kv9 (697238) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539986)

Because most people just want a system that works.

is that why 90% of people run Windows? *innocentsmile*

They have better thing to do in life than to learn the core of a new operating system.

to each his own. I have no say in what anyone can do with their time (though, acquiring knowledge is pretty hard to beat). installing an operating system is nowhere close of "learning its core". stop exaggerating.

Because of people like you, Linux will never go mainstream.

I wasn't aware that "Linux" is a company that aims for total market penetration (he heh, I said penetration). or total world domination. or whatever. this is an oooold and tired argument. mainstream usage from uninterested users brings nothing to the table. perhaps monies for companies that want to sell you free things? meanwhile, enterprising folks who know what they are doing and are contributing back to the community are the backbone of Linux and FLOSS in general.

Re:questions (1)

Slithe (894946) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540136)

though, acquiring knowledge is pretty hard to beat
That is great, but you can usually gain that knowledge after a few weeks. After that, it just becomes a pain in the ass. After 2.5 years, I threw in the towel and bought a MacBook.

Re:questions (1)

Minwee (522556) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540530)

if he doesn't know the first thing about Linux, what does he need it for? on a PS3 of all things

Well, that's obvious. To pick up chicks.

The only thing that impresses the ladies more than a really expensive game console is a really expensive pimped out game console with a picture of a penguin on it.

Gentoo? (1)

Chas (5144) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539324)

Better package management? Uh. We'll get back to you on that.
Does it's work without bothering you, the end-user? SHUT UP! I'm COMPILING HERE!
Newbie friendly?

GENTOO? NEWBIE-FRIENDLY? Yeah, maybe once you, the non-newbie had everything set up and idiot-proofed for him. At least until it came time to update and recompile some of the packages.

Pardon my sarcarstic laughter here.

Re:Gentoo? (1)

cyanid3 (998026) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539470)

>> At least until it came time to update and recompile some of the packages. emerge --sync emerge -uvDN world I don't see what's the difficulty in that. Besides, there's enough documentation to get you out of any mess that you're in. The Gentoo docs are simple enough to be understood by almost everyone.

Re:Gentoo? (1)

MySt1k (713767) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540142)

WHERE in hell did you saw the poster say it is newbie friendly ?
FROM TFA:
- Criticisms of Gentoo:
- Difficult for anyone new to Linux since they get overwhelmed with all the stuff given to them.

- Don't get me wrong, Gentoo is an overwhelmer for any newbie to Linux, but since I'm very comfortable with it, I decided to set it up on his PS3.

- The installation isn't for those who've never spent time at the Linux command line. While the instructions can be understood and followed by everyone, we'd prefer it if total newbies stayed away from it for a little while..

And as for the package management, well, maybe you dislike compiling things, but does that really make it a bad package management ?

Why? (1)

singingjim (957822) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539342)

I know I'm a complete n00b, but why would anyone even bother to do this? I just don't get it.

Re:Why? (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540368)

Probably the same reason man wanted to walk on the moon, but on a slightly smaller scale - maybe up there with deciding to mix peanut butter and jelly in one single sandwich, or trying on your cap backwards.

What?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17539362)

Just when I finished installing Vista on my PS3 :(

Why? (0, Troll)

NorbrookC (674063) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539368)

This is the question that keeps crossing my mind, every time I see one of these stories. Is a PS3 (or XBox, or Wii) giving you so much more capability as a Linux box than a box you've built from readily available components? Yeah, great, you got X distro of Linux to run on this platform. Can you still play the PS3 games on it? If you can't, WTF is the point, besides proving it can be done? It was interesting the first time someone did it, after that it's pretty much "me too."

Who gives a shit? (2, Troll)

cpuh0g (839926) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539374)

What's the point? Why spend $600+ on a PS3 only to put Linux on it. You can get a PC much cheaper, one which will happily accept most any Linux distro with alot less pain.

*If* I buy a PS3, it will be so I can play cool games and watch Hi-Def (blu-ray) movies, not so I can load Linux and surf the web on a 65" screen.

Just because you *can* doesn't mean you *should*.

Re:Who gives a shit? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17539748)

Alternatively, once Linux has been installed it allows you to access thousands of other applications and maybe some will develop new ones for the PS3. If you knew anything about the PS3 you would see that like the 360, it's seriously lacking as a media center. Linux installs will provide a method to allow it to play any media format, not just those Sony want you to have. Kids education games also become immediately available. Others will want other things, and that's *their* choice, and none of your fscking business.

Just because *you* cannot find usages, doesn't mean *others* cannot. STFU and move on with your life.

define friend ? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17539394)

friend1: -My requirements Install a distribution which is easy to maintain and run.
friend2: -Gentoo, then! (mouahahaha! Done with this sucker, no, let's get it worse, let's troll slashdot with it!!! Should I put his email online too?)

Article writer without a clue (2, Informative)

Alphager (957739) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539418)

1. Theoretically, faster than any other distro.
Yes, theoretically. Practically, you don't see or feel the difference. Citing this as #1 reason to use gentoo is stupid.
2. Modular distro, so you have full control over the installation.
Oh yeah, because the other distros dictate which software you have to install
3. It teaches you more about Linux.
Yes, because watching compiler output scrolling by for 8 hours gives me super linux skillz!
4. You can update it whenever you want, don't have to wait for the latest version of the distro like Fedora Core 5/6, Yellow Dog Linux 5
Ah, you mean it's like with the other distros who let you download the latest and greatest. Debian testing is usually pretty bleeding edge, and Debian is considered to be one of the slowest distros to upgrade....
5. Huge community of people, and the best documentation among all Linux distros, so you'll never have unsolved problems.
Hmmm. Google "gentoo problem": 1,520,000 results
Huge community? I would say Ubuntu or SuSe or Red Hat all have far bigger communities.

Re:Article writer without a clue (1)

christurkel (520220) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539496)

Gentoo users think by tweaking make setting and c-flags they are somehow getting faster apps than let's say Debian. This is is silly; it's not like Debian compiles it's x86 packages on a Sparc box.

Re:Article writer without a clue (1)

644bd346996 (1012333) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539832)

Even if Debian x86 was compiled on a sparc, they would still be able to produce the same binaries with a cross compiler. Incidentally, Gentoo is a great environment for working with cross compilers.

Re:Article writer without a clue (5, Insightful)

caluml (551744) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539674)

Nice troll. +5 Informative too.
But as usual, you miss the most important point. USE flags [gentoo.org] .
Why compile Samba with ldap support if you're never going to use LDAP in your network. In fact, isn't it nice to specify to the whole install that nothing should be built with LDAP support? I think so. Less code compiled in = small binaries, less code, less chance of a crash/security update.
I couldn't care less about the speed of Gentoo. I don't change my CFLAGs at all. But I like being able to tailor my machine to the purpose of the system.

Re:Article writer without a clue (1)

Bandman (86149) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539834)

You're actually saying that an install of samba compiled without ldap is less likely to crash than an install of samba compiled WITH ldap, when ldap isn't being used?

Re:Article writer without a clue (2, Interesting)

644bd346996 (1012333) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540056)

While samba's stability probably does not depend much on ldap support, the binaries will be measurably smaller, which is nice. Gentoo is frequently the only distribution where you can easily have an unusual software or hardware configuration without breaking the package management system.

For example, my previous computer had a Voodoo 3, which requires the glide libraries to get accelerated 3d on linux. Gentoo is the only modern distro I know of that lets me use glide, and it is trivial to enable it. It is pretty neat seeing cairo and glitz running so smoothly on such an old box.

Re:Article writer without a clue (1)

Bandman (86149) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540326)

well, glide itself is not "modern", but that doesn't matter much in the scheme of things.

I can see only a very small benefit to custom compiling all (or even most of) your packages, except in very specific cases, and binary size is probably of secondary concern in the era of almost free 80GB drives.

I'm glad Gentoo exists as a solution for the people who want it, but some people pitch it as the end-all be-all solution of linux machines, and that's just not how it goes. With the proper administrator, even Fedora will run well on a server.

...of course, I'm biased. I've used Slackware for 10 years or so and that will make ANYONE a curmudgeon.

Re:Article writer without a clue (1)

Daemonstar (84116) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540114)

Which is why most other distributions offer packages like:
  1. base package
  2. base package + feature 1
  3. base package + feature 2
  4. base package + feature 1 + feature 2
  5. base package + feature 3
Even so, it's not like the system is going to take a big performance hit because some packages have added support to them (except maybe disk space, depending on the package dependencies). And there's the added bonus of already having built-in support without having to redo the package if you need/want support for a feature later.

Re:Article writer without a clue (1)

644bd346996 (1012333) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539712)

Most of your points are good, but #2 is a valid concern. Last I checked, you can't install Nautilus in Fedora without installing CD burning software, because of the silly dependencies. People without CD burners shouldn't have to install CD burning software just to get a GNOME desktop.

Gentoo can be very good for putting together a disk image with a very specific set of software, and no extra baggage. Having control over compile time settings gives you a lot more flexibility compared with RPM packages.

Re:Article writer without a clue (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17539784)

"Hmmm. Google "gentoo problem": 1,520,000 results Huge community? " Thats because gentoo doesn't have problems LOL!

Re:Article writer without a clue (1)

Thanatos69 (993924) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539972)

To continue on with this... the criticisms

1. Long installation process
How is this a critique of the actual os?
2. Takes long to install applications since they have to be compiled from source
This is definitely a critique, I don't see how it helps a new person with linux though. While small, it just appears to be another hoop he/she has to jump through to learn about the actual os.
3. Difficult for anyone new to Linux since they get overwhelmed with all the stuff given to them.
Then why the hell are you giving it to someone who doesn't know anything about Linux. Your friend comes to you for advice and you give him poor advice as to what to use, nice friend. I hope your friend is monitoring this topic on \. just so he can see you get flamed over and over again for choosing gentoo

Re:Article writer without a clue (1)

Alchemar (720449) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540012)

The only one I would disagree with is 3. Installing Gentoo did help me learn a lot about how linux works, mainly how it boots. That is only a fraction of learning linux, but it was very educational.

On that note, having my friend install Gentoo for me would have been as educational as having my friend take a test for me, and tell me what grade "I" got, and don't bother me with all the confusing stuff like what the answers were, yet alone the questions.

Re:Article writer without a clue (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17540508)

5. Huge community of people, and the best documentation among all Linux distros, so you'll never have unsolved problems.
Hmmm. Google "gentoo problem": 1,520,000 results
Huge community? I would say Ubuntu or SuSe or Red Hat all have far bigger communities.


Ubuntu problem: 1,800,000 results
SuSe problem: 1,700,000 results
Red Hat problem: 51,300,000 results

So clearly, Gentoo has fewer problems!

Um (0, Troll)

neimon (713907) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539420)

It's a game console. Can't you people leave anything to do what it's supposed to instead of putting bloody unix on it? My GOD I wish I had $600 to waste on something new to stuff linux into. I'd buy new tires instead.

Re:Um (1)

Enoxice (993945) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539542)

*nix on tires? What a great idea! Then you can write a shell script that controls the speed and direction of your "spinnerz" hubcaps!

Re:Um (1)

SnarfQuest (469614) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540538)

Which distribution would you use on them?

PS3-CBE Protoyping-Porting? (4, Interesting)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539458)

Apparently, you can now develop Linux apps on PS3. High-end Cell machines, like a Cell Blade CBE from IBM, cost about $20-50K. And those CBEs are not really finished, stable HW architectures, and are in short supply, making their OS/SW environment very changeable.

A good strategy is to start developing on a PS3, while CBE HW catches up. If development takes 6-9 months, by then the CBEs will be cheaper, more stable, better understood by both their vendors and the community for getting support and working around weak links. And that time can be used to fundraise and team recruit around a PS3 prototype.

But the $64,000 Question (literally) is what it takes to port a PS3 Linux app to CBE Linux. Does anyone know yet? Whitepaper? Walking/talking expert for hire/bribe? If porting a PS3/Linux app to CBE/Linux is harder than porting an embedded x86 app to a Xeon, or an embedded R6000 to a multiproc R6000 server, then it might be worth it just to wait to start on the CBEs when they're ready. Though a PS3 running a supercomputer DSP app prototype could be cool enough to be worth the whole trouble, anyway.

Re:PS3-CBE Protoyping-Porting? (1)

maynard (3337) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540172)

Though a PS3 running a supercomputer DSP app prototype could be cool enough to be worth the whole trouble, anyway.

It's my understanding that the distro is just booting up PPC Linux and running off the main PPU in Cell. So, how much control does one have over those SPU DSPs? That's the real question. Presumably there must be a kernel interface and a library which allows one to DMA load stuff from main memory to an SPUs LS. I think most people are chaining data from one SPU to the next, which means that your algorithm will probably have to be broken into a series of compute steps - each run on a separate SPU. That means, *you* have to manage all the problems of cramming each program and data segment into 256K, verify concurrency across the chain in each step, move data segments to the next processor in the chain, and extract results. What a PITA.

Also note that double precision and integer work on those SPUs is pretty slow. Your big gain will come with single precision SIMD calcs in a matrix. Now, if your problem fits within all those limitations... then Cell will kick ass. It is a cheaper and faster FP engine than anything on the market today. I've been telling people where I work that we should buy a 20gb PS3 and try to port our monte carlo sim to Cell... just to see if it would be a good bang for the buck. So far though, skepticism of a toy performing reliable scientific compute runs high....

Re:PS3-CBE Protoyping-Porting? (1)

rootmonkey (457887) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540174)

The main difference between the Blade and the PS3 configuration is memory limitations and the number of SPUs available. The Blades have 2 CBEs with 8 SPUs and 1 GB RAM each (so 16 SPUs, 2 GB total). The PS3 has 7 SPUs and 256 MB (under linux). There is also a networking limitation since inifiband can be added to the Blade system.

The memory difference is the biggest hurdle since it will limit your data sets. However it will allow developers to prototype. The code itself will be completely portable between both systems since they both run Linux and have the same interface and SDK to the SPUs.

There are developers using the PS3 for CBE app development. You could ask them directly http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/forums/dw_fo rum.jsp?forum=739&cat=46 [ibm.com]

meh (1)

BladeMelbourne (518866) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539502)

full use of the ps3 system and gentoo go hand in hand. your processors will be compiling most of the time.

yes I have da ppc chip running linux. I prefer Fedora.

Re:meh (1)

PygmySurfer (442860) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539734)

actually, wouldn't the SPEs be sitting idle most of that time? :)

Re:meh (1)

Slashcrap (869349) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540552)

full use of the ps3 system and gentoo go hand in hand. your processors will be compiling most of the time.

Actually Gentoo for the PS3 is distributed as binary packages. The PS3 doesn't really have enough RAM to make compiling everything a comfortable experience.

But don't let actual facts get in the way of your bandwagon jumping, karma whoring comments.

And from what I've seen of recent Fedora releases, all that processor power on the PS3 would be used to startup and run Yum.

Do you trust this man? (2, Interesting)

crush (19364) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539704)

There are such seriously uninformed assertions in the very premises of TFA that it's hard to take what the writer says seriously. For example:

while they're not bad in any sense, they do have problems which are associated with any RPM based distro- dependency hell. I'm sure that any of you who've tried to install any applications would have faced the problem of missing dependencies sometime. And it's all too common to have a few packages totally missing from the repository which means that you have to search for their respective RPMs on the net, download them and install them separately. While functional, this can get a little frustrating over time.

"Dependency hell" existed before YUM (which came from Yellowdog's Seth K. Vidal) solved the problem. YUM [duke.edu] is explicitly a dependency solver. It builds on top of the RPM system to automatically find and install the dependent RPM packages.

I knew it wasn't going to be Fedora Core or Yellow Dog since they seemed to have lots of problems when it came to media players.

Fedora Core (don't know about Yellow Dog) explicitly chooses to stay away from software which relies upon non-Free, patent-encumbered material. As a project it considers things like Ubuntu's binary graphics driver distribution, or the inclusion of mp3 decoding software (which is encumbered by the Frauenhoefer Institute's ridiculous patent) to be against the GPL and Free Software. As a result it helps to foster the development of free alternatives, without which there would be a much smaller software ecosystem. This is sane, long-term thinking which steps away from opportunistic, short-term compromises which seek to cannibalize market-share from other Linux distros by spreading confusion and misinformation. Debian has a very similar attitude. There are some non-Fedora run repositories where people have packaged up things like the mplayer codec bundle, mpg321, flash etc. If you really have to have them it's easy to edit /etc/yum/repos.d to add the repository.

The only solution was using a distro which had a better package management system, and did its work without bothering you, the end user.

Look, if an ebuild isn't in the portage tree then you're not going to have much luck installing it unless you make your own. Ditto for an rpm being available to yum in a repository. Your article is uninformed fanboi-ism. To your friend: don't let him near your PS3!

To anyone not using Gentoo, don't take this article as representative of the community, it's a great distro with many advantages and not everyone involved with it is as much as a moron as the article writer.

Re:Do you trust this man? (1)

heinousjay (683506) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539854)

Out of curiosity, what's so ridiculous about the patent, exactly? I suspect you're going for the 'all patents are bad' thing I see around here most of the time, but I figured I'd ask in case there was an answer that had some facts behind it.

Re:Do you trust this man? (1)

Goaway (82658) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540164)

So basically your shit won't work but at least somebody's else's ideologies are satisfied.

Fanboy-ism at its best/worst (4, Insightful)

nadamsieee (708934) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539716)

I've been using GNU/Linux since about 1998, and I used Gentoo for approximately 3+ years. I've even written and submitted an ebuild or two. It definitely has some advantages over other distros and definitely has disadvantages. But it (like all man-made things) is far from perfect. Statements like these simply aren't true:

1. Best distro when compared with Fedora Core 5/6 or Yellow Dog Linux because of no RPM/dependency/repository hell

In Gentoo packages are installed using scripts called ebuilds which are intended to contain all of the dependency information for the packages. People write the ebuilds. People (all of them) occasionally make mistakes. Its not unheard of to have a dependency bug in Gentoo.

2. Easy to install ANY application - emerge . It will download source of all dependencies, install and setup everything.

The ease of installation also depends on the quality of the ebuild. Were all possible combos of USE flags even tested for a particular ebuild? Do those combinations actually work? Again, ebuild aren't magic and they contain to contain errors. Also, portage only gives you a default configuration file. You have to make (and test) any configuration file changes yourself. So the statement that portage will "setup everything" is misleading.

3. Will get the latest updates first, and you will be able to download and install it without any problems.

This definitely isn't always true. As the Gentoo devs struggled to get a handle on quality, packages began to take a substantial amount of time to work their way into the stable arches. I'm not sure if this is still the case, but at one point new ebuilds had to sit in ~arch status (sort of like test repository in other distros) for one month without complaint before being marked as stable. It didn't seem to matter if anyone actually tested or even looked at the ~arch ebuild during that month. It was just a mandatory waiting period in which the dev hoped that some users bothered to test the ebuild and complain if it broke. I think the quality of the ebuilds are improving with the refinement of Gentoo's architecture herds, but with more process and more people comes delays. Quality and speed are almost always at odds in development.

4. It won't take time to install applications since hundreds of binaries already available through Portage Overlays. Thus, you will get applications compiled specially for the PS3, not just a regular PPC computer. The advantages of this will be big once GCC is optimised for the Cell processor.

Performing work always takes time, even installing binary packages, and the default behavior of Portage is to install from source.

5. You can ask for help while installation through irc, or ask someone to install it for you remotely!

As an experiment, I'd like to see everyone interested in Linux on PS3 to log onto IRC and ask somebody to install Gentoo for them remotely. Report back here with the results. ;)

Basically Gentoo can be great if it fits your needs, but pretending that Gentoo is perfect and problem free isn't going to change the reality that it isn't.

MOD PARENT UP (1)

Bandman (86149) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539906)

I wish I hadn't replied already

MOD PARENT UP

Easy steps to install Linux on the PlayStation 3 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17539754)

developerWorks has a good article [ibm.com] up about Linux on the PlayStation 3. It includes overview, installation, and first Cell BE processor programming steps.

head asplode (2, Insightful)

Lord Ender (156273) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539830)

he didn't know much about Linux ... His requirements -- Install a distribution which is easy to maintain ... Gentoo

My brain exploded when I read that. This author is WAY out of touch with reality. Of all the widely-used Linux distros, Gentoo, by FAR, requires the most administration effort and expertise.

Gentoo is for people who want the very latest in technology and the highest possible customization ability, but don't mind manually rewriting config files every week when a new version of a given package is released. Clearly, the author of this article is not qualified to--actually, no, he's just on crack.

OBL Bash Quote (1)

Joker1980 (891225) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539968)

it only takes three commands to install Gentoo cfdisk /dev/hda && mkfs.xfs /dev/hda1 && mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/gentoo/ && chroot /mnt/gentoo/ && env-update && . /etc/profile && emerge sync && cd /usr/portage && scripts/bootsrap.sh && emerge system && emerge vim && vi /etc/fstab && emerge gentoo-dev-sources && cd /usr/src/linux && make menuconfig && make install modules_install && emerge gnome mozilla-firefox openoffice && emerge grub && cp /boot/grub/grub.conf.sample /boot/grub/grub.conf && vi /boot/grub/grub.conf && grub && init 6 that's the first one

Just play games on the thing! (3)

Bob54321 (911744) | more than 7 years ago | (#17539988)

If I had a friend who knew nothing about Linux and owned a PS3 and thought it would be a good idea to learn Linux by running it on a PS3, I think I would just have to slap them down. You spent $600+ to play games so play games.

On a side note, has anyone managed to screw their PS3 by installing Linux yet - is it possible the combination of shiny new toy and no real Linux knowledge could lead to expensive shiny looking bricks?

With "friends" like this... (4, Funny)

john-da-luthrun (876866) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540074)

His requirements -- Install a distribution which is easy to maintain and run.

So you installed Gentoo. You bastard. Did you run over his dog at the same time?

Distro wars (1)

digitalhermit (113459) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540346)

I have this dream where this guru sits in a lotus position and says, "All paths are the same." About him, his students engage in debate about the true path to enlightenment. We are focused on the guru so we hardly hear the smattering of sound bites: "Emacs all the way!" "vi, my friend." "Namaste, but SuSe is the way." "In the beginning was the command line, and so shall it be in the end." "The GUI is easier, and easier is better."

In this dream a light wells up behind the guru. He gestures to the earth, touches it, the Kernel tree grows up from that spot. He pulls a leaf from the Kernel tree, crushes it in his palm and casts the pieces to the wind. Where each bit of leaf falls, a new Distribution Tree grows. Soon there are hundreds of trees about him, innumerable as the stars in the heavens.

The students are aghast. So many distributions, so alike and so different. They scrabble around in confusion. Which is the true Way? Then light erupts from the guru. The students understand: All spring from the One Tree.

Aum.

(Yeah, too much Christmas eggnog for me.)

I'm wondering... (1)

reddcell (1044072) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540348)

When the last time the OP actually USED Gentoo. It has fallen from the high horse it once rode upon.

Office Suite? (2, Funny)

gregtron (1009171) | more than 7 years ago | (#17540418)

"Among his biggest needs was an office suite..." ? Friend1: Hey, man, whatcha playin? Is it co-op? Friend2: Hell yeah, grab a controller. I'm just workin on this bitchin spreadsheet.
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