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Global Warming Only a Theory, Says School Board

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the i'd-think-seattle-would-know-about-rain dept.

Education 1089

BendingSpoons writes "A Seattle school board has placed a moratorium on screenings of 'An Inconvenient Truth', having found its subject matter too controversial. Echoing the language of the evolution debate, the school board found that students must be told that global warming is only a theory and presented with an opposing viewpoint. The ban was prompted by the complaints of a parent: '"Condoms don't belong in school, and neither does Al Gore. He's not a schoolteacher," said Frosty Hardison, a parent of seven who also said that he believes the Earth is 14,000 years old. "The information that's being presented is a very cockeyed view of what the truth is ... The Bible says that in the end times everything will burn up, but that perspective isn't in the DVD."'"

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1089 comments

Nothing to see here... (-1, Offtopic)

emphatic (671123) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584284)

BEST ONE EVER!

Re:Nothing to see here... (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17584370)

"Only a theory". What arguments do they have against it? A theory is the best explanation for an observed phenomena. These quacks should get their heads out of the sand.

Yes, global warming is happening. It is something that is measured. It is something that can be verified using physical modeling. In fact, the world is warming at an alarming rate. There is not a single reputable scientist who denies it. Only in the news media do you find this "controversy".

Does Al Gore get all the facts in his movie? No, but it does not diminish his message.

I have no complaints with his movie except... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17584590)

The 10 years until the point of no return statement that he made is sort of ridiculous (only because that timeline occurred 20 years ago). Global warming would not be nearly as political of a topic if the scientists pointed out that global warming is going to occur *and* there is not a damn thing we can do about it.

My recommendation? Mine the Earth and the rest of the Solar System for their resources and then move on like the aliens in Independence Day. Alpha Centari is looking good this part of the millennium.

A *Puget Sound* school board. NOT Seattle! (5, Informative)

NeuroManson (214835) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584298)

Federal Way is almost 26 miles south of Seattle, and the only thing in common both cities have is that they both share the same county. It's like saying San Jose is San Francisco, because they both have "San" in their names.

Re:A *Puget Sound* school board. NOT Seattle! (1, Funny)

bataras (169548) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584352)

No it's like saying San Francisco is like San *Serif* because they both name San in their name.

Re:A *Puget Sound* school board. NOT Seattle! (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17584374)

Furthermore, it's Sans Serif. As in the French word for "without", not the Spanish word for "saint".

Re:A *Puget Sound* school board. NOT Seattle! (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17584600)

For Californians, San Francisco and San Bernardino might be a better comparison.

Similar names, vastly different politically.

San Jose isn't quite as far left as San Francisco, but most of the rest of the country wouldn't see a difference.

Well.. (5, Funny)

yamamushi (903955) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584300)

When global warming isn't a theory anymore, it will kind of be like hell on earth. So I guess the bible is right?

catch up (5, Funny)

mastershake_phd (1050150) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584302)

Frosty Hardison, a parent of seven who also said that he believes the Earth is 14,000 years old.

The fundamentalist Christians are out breeding the rest of us. We must catch up.

Re:catch up (5, Funny)

TranscendentalAnarch (1005937) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584340)

Nice pick up line, I'll have to try that at the bar.

Re:catch up (5, Funny)

mastershake_phd (1050150) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584392)

Hey nice hips, wana have 8 kids?

Re:catch up (4, Interesting)

MidVicious (1045984) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584656)

Ah Christian Fundamentalists... they're just like Islamic Fundamentalists... only different.

No matter what truth, facts, or educated postulations you try to help them understand and consider, to them, the world will always be flat and the Earth will always be in the center of the galaxy.

I was raised Baptist. Of all the wacky stuff the pastor threw at us, we all could appreciate a few simple principles: Mind your health, don't sleep with my wife, try not to kill anybody and education is fundamental. Traveling beyond the doctrines of common sense tends to lead to the swamps of stupidity.

If these fundamentalist zealots, in all their glorious wisdom, wish to outlaw science, deductive reasoning and critical thinking from education, then it's only fair to outlaw their solipsism as well.

And for the record, the Grand Canyon [peer.org] was NOT created 6000 years ago by a disastrous flood survived only by a zookeeper with a really large ship and a meticulous knack for breeding animals... hey that's genetics! Oops, sorry, too scientific, I meant that's the will of our Lord.

Re:catch up (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17584388)

bump bump ba bump

Re:catch up (5, Funny)

mrchaotica (681592) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584546)

Yep, that's what happens when they don't teach about condoms in schools!

Re:catch up (1)

metlin (258108) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584618)


Mommy, I found these balloons lying around my desk...

Re:catch up (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17584642)

No worries, some of the most fervent secularists I know are the children of fundamentalist believers. These things work themselves out.

Mod article -1: Flaimbait (0, Offtopic)

adpsimpson (956630) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584312)

Cue 2000+ flames. Doesn't anyone get tired of this?

Re:Mod article -1: Flaimbait (-1, Troll)

noigmn (929935) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584360)

Doesn't anyone get tired of this?
Laughing at fundamentalists' stupidity?

No, not really :)

Re:Mod article -1: Flaimbait (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17584502)

Yeah, laughing at idiots never gets old!

I'm actually pleased... (2, Interesting)

vistic (556838) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584318)

...that this nonsense is being spoken by someone who couldn't possibly be even considered sensible or correct... having anything close to a valid argument against global warming.

yet he's still taken seriously... (4, Interesting)

SuperBanana (662181) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584494)

...that this nonsense is being spoken by someone who couldn't possibly be even considered sensible or correct... having anything close to a valid argument against global warming.

...yet despite that nonsense, a school board kowtowed to his demands. That has a powerful message: the toughest argument to fight is an invalid one, especially in front of an uneducated audience.

You used one yourself, in fact- you engaged in ad hominem. Maybe he is a hick; it doesn't affect the validity of his argument, which can be dismissed on other grounds (example: one is science, the other is a belief system.) It's no different than saying "well, that pro-evolution scientist is GAY!"

Furthermore, the article summary and TFA both help perpetuate the myth that evolution and global warming are theories. They're not. They're proven fact- and one of the reasons An Inconvenient Truth is so unpopular with those who don't "believe" in global warming is because it step-by-step, methodically destroys every argument they've used against global warming. Evolution is also proven fact based on not just a decade or two of research, but more than a century and a half of research.

Re:yet he's still taken seriously... (0)

Daniel Dvorkin (106857) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584668)

you engaged in ad hominem. Maybe he is a hick; it doesn't affect the validity of his argument, which can be dismissed on other grounds (example: one is science, the other is a belief system.) It's no different than saying "well, that pro-evolution scientist is GAY!

It is different, because Hardison's belief system has a bearing on his own ability to objectively evaluate the evidence concerning global warming, while your hypothetical gay scientist's sexual preference has no bearing on his ability to objectively evaluate the evidence concerning evolution. Ad hominem is only a fallacy when the aspect of the person being attacked is irrelevant to the argument at hand.

Unfortunately, it seems that when dealing with religious fanatics, their fanaticism is relevant to every argument -- no matter what the issue is (and from his throwaway line about condoms, it's clear that this guy has plenty of issues) they always filter it through their own version of the One True. To be fair, other kinds of fanatics do this too; how many /. discussions on just about any topic have been hijacked by rants about Microsoft or DRM? It is entirely reasonable to dismiss the arguments made by such people.

AMEN! (-1, Flamebait)

p51d007 (656414) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584554)

The same "scientist" who are doing the chicken little speech with "global warming" are the same scientist who were predicting a new ice age in the mid 70's...look it up. The SUN is getting hotter, if the temperature of the SUN is increasing, it would stand to reason the earth would warm up.

Does this mean... (1)

ringbarer (545020) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584326)

That Al Gore is a contraceptive now?

I guess he must have invented the barrier method to block off all those tubes.

Im sorry... (2, Insightful)

krakelohm (830589) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584334)

I just want to say sorry from all us normal Christians.

Re:Im sorry... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17584372)

You're all still retarded.

Can you please do more than saying you're sorry? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17584658)

I respect your religion -- and all religions -- but I am one of those people who loathes fundamentalism and bandies about terms like "religious nuts" and "religious fascists." It is not the "religious" side of the equation which I find loathesome, but the "nut" side of it.

Religion does not belong in politics. America fought a revolution to support the idea of brotherhood and equality between humans, and rid the world of archaic notions about some humans being more worthy than other humans, such as so-called "kings" (who, it must be remembered, were thought to derive their political power from divine power).

There is so much about Christianity (and other religions) which is patently un-American, including its references to this dude who died 2,000 years ago as some kind of currently existing "Prince" or a "Lord" or "King" to be "worshipped." Attributing divinity and specialness to certain humans but not others is a slippery path which desensitizes us to tyranny and allows for the hateful mullahs and popes and all the rest of the religious rabble who claim to speak from some special tyrannical authority from on high, instead of from persuasion and reason.

All that said, again, I respect yours or anyone's personal thoughts. If you want to bow down to a green tomato in your own house and predict that one day that green tomato will come flying through the heavens and rapturize people, so be it. But I hope you can understand that in a pluralistic world, many of us have very different faiths about how spirituality and creation and all the rest work, and the most sensible course of action seems to be to respect all faiths.

Take the Moslems and their "infidel" epithet, for example. Poll after poll consistently shows that 96% of the American people believe in God. You would think reasonable people could rejoice in the things they have in common (God) than always fighting over the minutae (whose prophet is the "right" one?)

Denying global warming because your religion makes you think, through faith instead of evidence, that the world is only 14,000 years old is like standing in front of a speeding car and daring it to hit you. The philosopher David Hume tried that with a horse, got clobbered, and realized that reality is actually, in fact, real, and it hurts! Reason is not at all incompatible with faith, but a supplantation of reason by faith is ludicrous and ultimately, evil and tyrannical, leading to concepts like, "Because I believe watching soccer on TV is un-Islamic, I'm going to kill you. Never mind what YOU believe."

It's easy enough for a non-Christian Deist like me (I love God - I hate religion) to denounce guys like this fellow in Washington State. But I really think it is incumbent on the religious who are not "nuts," as you characterize yourself, to do a better job at shouting him down. If the non-tyrannical Christians, Moslems, Jews etcetera don't start stepping up and putting the nut/fascist types of religious folk down, then all that we godly albeit non-religious folk will be able to conclude is that you stand with them, too. If the world needs anything returned or supplanted, it is the replacement of religious nuts by the "normal" religious. Is there such a thing any more, in 2006? Or are you all fascists?

What Do Other Sources Say? (4, Insightful)

Scarletdown (886459) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584336)

The Bible says that in the end times everything will burn up, but that perspective isn't in the DVD.


But what do other opposing sources say?

The Koran?
Hindu beliefs?
Various Native (North and South) American legends?
Buddhist Teachings?

If you are going to provide one opposing viewpoint, you better be ready to provide many others as well.

Re:What Do Other Sources Say? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17584434)

And the Flying Spaghetti Monster ? Uh ? What about His Noodly ? Arrrrhhhh!!!!

Re:What Do Other Sources Say? (1)

Scarletdown (886459) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584676)

Had I not simply wanted to give just a few examples, I would have also included the FSM in the list, as well as C'thulu, the Great Green Arkleseizure (y'know, the coming of the Great White Handkerchief?), and this portrayal of "The End of the World" [newgrounds.com] .

Now, to book my reservation to the Floating Island of Mandango.

Re:What Do Other Sources Say? (1)

Mike Kelly (864224) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584448)

Cue the "Pastafarian" theory of evolution and His Noodley goodness of the Flying Apagetti Monster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_spagetti_monst er [wikipedia.org]

Mod Parent Up! (1)

mrchaotica (681592) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584568)

(Say it with me:)

rAmen!

Re:What Do Other Sources Say? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17584638)

You should've realized by now that it never is about different theories. If they're not supporting MY view, they are wrong. Fundamentalists!

Most religions and many ideologies assume two things:
1. Our beliefs are the absolute, unquestionable truth (and thus any conflicting views are wrong by definition)
2. Where our beliefs are shown false, see rule 1

Those rules essentially state that even if you win an argument, you are still wrong.

Re:What Do Other Sources Say? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17584672)

We don't care what terrorists think.

Let him put his money where his mouth is (5, Insightful)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584342)

Frosty Hardison, a parent of seven who also said that he believes the Earth is 14,000 years old. "The information that's being presented is a very cockeyed view of what the truth is ... The Bible says that in the end times everything will burn up, but that perspective isn't in the DVD."'"

In other words ...

  1. in the same spirit of fairness, require that his pastor give equal time to an athiest and a devil worshiper on Sunday
  2. since he's such a believer in life after death, shoot himself so he can see Jebus that much quicker

Re:Let him put his money where his mouth is (1, Interesting)

Surt (22457) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584504)

But ... the schools are publicly (tax) supported, while churches are privately funded. Surely you can see why one would suggest that the schools should not be for indoctrination, but instead be places of learning where balanced viewpoints are presented about controversial issues.

Re:Let him put his money where his mouth is (1)

X-treme-LLama (178013) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584542)

YES! Thank you.

Have your religion and feel free to it. I don't care WHAT you believe (unless you're a scientologist, that's just wacky shit) but keep it out of my Government, my Schools, and my LAWS.

We gave them Sunday (perhaps Saturday) to teach their kids all sorts of wacky crap, let the people with facts and science have Monday-Friday to teach children things that are REAL.

They're all wrong! (4, Funny)

fishybell (516991) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584346)

Of course, they're all wrong.

Washington, Gore, the whole lot. We all know that the truth about both the age of the earth and cause of global warming lies in the truth as told by His Noodleness on high.

Ramen.

Re:They're all wrong! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17584582)

"You may be interested to know that global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of Pirates since the 1800s."
It's true, global warming in particular is caused by the incredible shrinking number of Pirates.

Ramen.

I doubt (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17584350)

I doubt that 1+2=3. Please do not teach this in math anymore unless I am allowed to present my opinion about it.

Re:I doubt (1)

noigmn (929935) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584490)

I couldn't find anything to support this outrageous arguement or global warming. But I have found various sources that confirm that 2+2=5.

The biography of Winston Smith, including Smith's proof of the above.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four [wikipedia.org]

Many songs and television shows have also confirmed this. (Using the well established all words spoken by songwriters and actors are truth theory.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2%2B2%3D5#Television [wikipedia.org]

Confused... (1)

ecuador_gr (944749) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584362)

I don't understand... He does say he believes in the end the earth will burn up, right? So it has to start warming up for that to happen, right? So what is his problem?

He is just jumping ahead and spoiling "An Inconvenient Truth 2", which will deal with what will happen in the end if we don't stop global warming. Wait for the release dude, and you will see the part about the Earth burning up!

Global warming is a fact... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17584368)

We have records that prove the climate is warming up, the debate is weather (sic) climate change is due to environmental pollution or just part of some natural cycle.

No I didn't RTFA and don't care if it was just the submitter being a dork.

Problem Solved (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17584376)

"The Bible says that in the end times everything will burn up, but that perspective isn't in the DVD."

Just make the kids watch Reign of Fire afterwards. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0253556/ [imdb.com] It ironically has the same scientific merit as the view that the parent demands from the school. You're welcome Seattle School Board!

Uhh.. they both agree about the earth burning up?! (1)

NFN_NLN (633283) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584378)

"The Bible says that in the end times everything will burn up, but that perspective isn't in the DVD." Meeh, I saw the projected global temperature chart... that curve looked nearly vertical at the end. I think Al Gore and the Bible are pretty much aligned on this point.

This is a good argument for school choice! (3, Interesting)

Slithe (894946) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584380)

In a government-controlled system it is great when your side is in control, but when the other side gains control, it can be hellish. I used to be a Libertarian (now I consider myself more of a Paleoconservative); however, I recognize the necessity of public funding for healthcare and schools; however, I still think that one should have a variety of publically-funded options available to them. If every child had a school voucher (that could only be given to an education institute that met certain basic academic qualifications), I think the education system could be improved greatly.

Re:This is a good argument for school choice! (1)

Slithe (894946) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584420)

I wanted to point-out that this voucher would be worth $x000, and it would be given to every child. This would probably have to be a federal program (so that quality could be maintained from sea to shining sea), but as long as the government does not fuck the qualifications up too bad, it should be just fine.

Re:This is a good argument for school choice! (1)

Surt (22457) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584528)

Then you're just going to shift these issues to the federal level. Where no doubt we'll quickly see that the minimum regulations on a school will require that it must teach evolution and not creationism, and must show an inconvenient truth to every child. Etc.

Re:This is a good argument for school choice! (1)

chromatic (9471) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584428)

Who sets those standards? What happens when those standards don't match your own?

(Flamebait example: teaching abiogenesis in biology courses.)

Re:This is a good argument for school choice! (2, Interesting)

LionKimbro (200000) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584670)

Easy: give the vouchers for care of children, not any particular schooling.

Everyone needs children taken care of, and it's in societies best interest to make sure that children are cared for.

The matter of curriculum, testing, and so on, is left totally up to parents and who they contract to.

"What if they're teaching abiogenesis?" Well, what if? What do you suppose we should do instead: Have teachers tell their students that their parents are stupid?

That may be the present strategy, but I think it's the wrong one. I don't believe in any of that nonsense either (straight up evolution & scientific determinism, for me.) But I don't believe in stealing children from their parents, either.

It's been standard practice for a long time now, but I think it's about time we stop.

I think we should start understanding and evangelizing our own perspective. Most who have a trust in scientists can't really tell you what standard candles are, what kinds of radioactive dating there are and why we use different ones, what evolved from what, what the major epochs of our 13.7 billion year history are, and so on. But the bible kids and the Mormons understand the fundamentals of their religion. They know King David, they know Paul, they know Peter. They know what Jesus said, and when, and why. They know their Judges. They hold contests amongst themselves to prove they can memorize so many versus.

I strongly believe it's time that we understand, and teach, and preach, what it is that we believe, and why we believe it. Understand the world like the Bible people understand scripture, and then get evangelical.

Go door to door: "Hi! We were wondering if you would be interested in having a very brief conversation about the Good News!" What good news? "The Good News, of our (at least) 13.7 billion year history, and the evolution of our planet." (Evangelical hands over some photographs of Deep Space hubble imagery, novas, ...) "All of this..." "Is this something that interests you? Would you have a conversation with us? Our planet is in peril, but we have an opportunity to make something really beautiful here..."

Re:This is a good argument for school choice! (1)

R3d M3rcury (871886) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584534)

If every child had a school voucher (that could only be given to an education institute that met certain basic academic qualifications)
Ah, there's the rub.

What is a "basic academic qualification"? Would you say an understanding of the theory of evolution is a "basic academic qualification"? Many would say yes. Some would say no. Who decides on this list of "basic academic qualifications"?

I mean, in theory, that's what public schools provide. By privatizing it but adding that rider about "basic academic qualification", you're keeping the same mess.

Theories (4, Interesting)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584386)

I own An Inconvenient Truth (the movie not the book). And I would like to say that although some people still consider the effects that are predicted by that movie to be "a theory," they are hard to disprove. A fact is that we're sitting at carbon levels in our atmosphere above anything ever indicated by ice cores from around the world. Correlating the temperature with carbon levels could be construed as erroneous. Maybe the temperatures have a capping limit? I don't want to think up possibilities because I happen to agree heavily with that correlation.

Now, I might have sat here and ranted and raved about how I watched material in high school or grade school on physics or nature programs that could have been just as theoretical as An Inconvenient Truth but I'm not going to. Why? Well, there were two points in the movie that I didn't care for. One was the election campaign. The other was Gore's son's near death experience. These are political and emotional issues. They do not belong in science nor do they belong being taught in a classroom setting that is centered on science. Politics class? Psychology class? Maybe. But I would really wish he had stuck to the facts and used that valuable time that he had my undivided attention to counter some arguments I've heard against his movie.

I have tried to keep an open mind about this issue for both sides. Gore's movie certainly swayed me, I'm not ashamed or afraid to admit that. The fact is that it's a political issue no matter how much science is involved. If parents don't want it taught to their children, that's fine. I've bought the movie twice (once for me, once for my sister), the word will get out someway somehow.

Re:Theories (1)

navonodt (636194) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584526)

Love the quote in your signature. I agree with what you are saying. Word of mouth or not, unfortunately the truth will come out when the proverbial poop hits the fan and then the mad scramble begins....

Re:Theories (2, Informative)

billimad (629204) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584580)

Am I the only one that remembers that "a theory" and "hypothesis" are different and that the former is used by laypeople that don't understand the latter?

N.B. A theory is a more-or-less estabilshed explaination backed with observerational evidence.

Re:Theories (1)

multisync (218450) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584598)

I found the parts about the election and his son a little awkward, too. I guess the point was to show us what motivated him to travel around giving the slideshow, and to make the movie, and I think that is valid. But it diluted the message somewhat and gave fodder to the Global Warming Deniers.

I laughed (5, Insightful)

chris_eineke (634570) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584400)

complaints of a parent: '"Condoms don't belong in school, and neither does Al Gore. He's not a schoolteacher," said Frosty Hardison, a parent of seven
That explains all. Looks like intelligent design didn't quite work out for him!

They're right: the world IS doomed... (1)

mrchaotica (681592) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584594)

...and not because of global warming! It's doomed because inclination to have children is inversely proportional to intelligence -- the idiots are out-breeding us!

Burn baby, burn (5, Funny)

HerrEkberg (971000) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584406)

The Bible says that in the end times everything will burn up, but that perspective isn't in the DVD.
Global warming, hello?!

Moron (2, Insightful)

thegreat682 (664186) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584408)

I'm getting disgusted with these people whose minds are so narrow that they are oblivious to the world around them. I am a Christian myself and people making comments like the ones in the article only make all of us look ridiculous.

Let them debate (4, Insightful)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584412)

Kids are often surprisingly smart, if you just tell them the real deal. A critical missing element of public education is teaching kids to adjudicate competing claims. This topic is a wonderful opportunity to teach science, civics, critical thinking, and world religions in a single issue, without being dry.

It would be a shame for us to simply demand that the school board decide that global warming is the truth, and miss a great teaching opportunity. I hope we don't do that.

It's too bad about Frosty McPsycho (0)

ellem (147712) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584414)

The truth is Global Warming is just a theory, just like The New Ice Age was a few decades ago and Silent Spring was before that... Unfortunately the Frosty's give creedence by way of their idiocy to people just as admant about their wacky beliefs.

Frosty? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17584426)

"Frosty" Hardison?

Is that some kind of coincidence or ... what?

Re:Frosty? (1)

tumutbound (549414) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584592)

If I had to go through life known as Frosty, I too would have a strange view of reality.

Title wrong! (3, Insightful)

ArcherB (796902) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584450)

I could be wrong here, but it seems like the problem is not with global warming, but AlGore's movie and the theories as to what is causing global warming. I know that it is currently vogue to point out how stupid people are that disagree with the current group-think, but that's not what is going on here. Parents complained because their kids were forced to watch AlGore's movie and 100% of it was presented as fact. Man may be causing global warming, he may not. People much smarter than any of us argue both sides of that debate. It is conceited to think that just because something is happening, it must be our doing. Man didn't cause the global warming that ended the last ice-age, it's possible we have nothing or little to do with it this time around.

A Teachable Moment? (3, Insightful)

tbo (35008) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584452)

I can just smell it--the thread is about to turn into a big old "let's bash the religious right" flamefest. Been there, done that. Let's move on. The aptly-named global warming denier, Frosty Hardison, may be ridiculous, but that doesn't mean this isn't a great opportunity to teach kids about how science.

Consider--the school board says kids must be presented with both sides. Great--this is how science works. Global warming is probably the most controversial scientific subject today, so let's show kids the research on both sides, the rebuttals, the propaganda, etc. Turn it into the theme for an entire school year. In English, have them read and write reports on a few peer-reviewed global warming research papers or books about global warming. Analyze the rhetoric and the logic. In math, teach them how to interpret graphs using examples from those research papers. In physics, teach them about blackbody radiation, thermodynamics, and everything else you need to understand the basic principles of the greenhouse effect. In biology, cover photosynthesis and the carbon cycle.

Do everything right and the kids will not only get a much, much better picture of what's happening with global warming, they'll also understand the scientific method and learn how to spot junk science. Maybe the parents will even learn something from their kids.

Re:A Teachable Moment? (5, Insightful)

MDMurphy (208495) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584588)

Exactly. Use the DVD as a teaching tool. Teach the kids to look at it critically, find fault ( if they can ) and draw conclusions. Experiment, research the facts.

Spoonfeeding them the answer and expecting them to swallow it without thinking isn't teaching, it's brainwashing. Even if you're brainwashing with correct information, it's still brainwashing.

A resonable science class wouldn't just tell students that oxygen is necessary for a candle to burn, but would allow the students to experiment to "prove" it to themselves, to observe the conditions that drove someone else to that conclusion years ago.

If you teach that a DVD is 100% correct, and one single fact turns out to be incorrect, does it invalidate the whole DVD? No, but coming to that conclusion requires critical thinking, and critical thinking needs to be taught.

Re:A Teachable Moment? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17584650)

I agree, but that doesn't make jesus-jumpers suck any less.

14,000 years old (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584458)

Anyone that believes that has a few screws loose and should be ignored.

I dont care what your religious orientation is and your view of the 'end of the world', thats just stupid.

Re:14,000 years old (1)

chromatic (9471) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584518)

Anyone that believes that has a few screws loose and should be ignored.

Why, were you there when the earth formed?

No?

Well that's not very falsifiable, is it?

Re:14,000 years old (1)

batkiwi (137781) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584626)

Were you there when you were born?

If not, why do you believe you are not 50000 years old, but just don't remember the first 49950 or so?

Here's the Problem (3, Insightful)

moehoward (668736) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584462)


I cringe every time I hear "global warming". It has become a political code word rather than something that conveys scientific meaning or even any meaning at all.

1) We need to distinguish between long term climate change and short term climate change.
2) We need to distinguish between human-causes and natural causes.
3) Skeptics must be heard and not shouted down and ridiculed.

It is almost as though "global warming" has been voted into existence. I feel we need more info on theories on how solar output might change over time (chaotic in some ways, but maybe predicatble in other ways). We need more info on why the mini ice age happened. We need more info on where we are in terms of coming out of the "big" ice age. We need to be careful to distinguish direct temperature measurements of the last 125 years versus indirect measurements.

Finally, we need every news story about climate, weather, geography, evolution, extinction, and health to have some shifty-eyed reference to "global warming". Predictions about "this will be the warmest..." have happened since 2002. Most wrong. Remember the hurricane predictions for 2006? Nope, even those prediction which were "linked to global warming" were dismissed due the "effects of global warming." This stuff is in the news almost every day.

I feel that there is a real possibility that in 100 years, humanity may look back at this topic as something even more group-think than the typical "tulip bulb" group-think that happened on a much smaller scale years ago. The earth is getting warmer because we are leaving both a mini and a big ice age. I learned that in freakin' catholic school in the 1970's when Time magainze heralded the coming new ice age again and again.

I am certainly an environmentalist. I practice what I preach. But, I'm so disappointed at how the "global warming" thing has been completely misappropriated. Both sides of the political spectrum need to be ashamed at how science is twisted to make their case.

Umm.. Yeah.. (5, Interesting)

X-treme-LLama (178013) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584464)

"Condoms don't belong in school, and neither does Al Gore. He's not a schoolteacher," said Frosty Hardison, a parent of seven who also said that he believes the Earth is 14,000 years old. "The information that's being presented is a very cockeyed view of what the truth is ... The Bible says that in the end times everything will burn up, but that perspective isn't in the DVD."'"
Because we should absolutely base the teaching of science on the objections of people who believe the earth is 14,000 years old. We're these people fucking drunk? Yes, global warming is a theory, a fairly convincing once what with ice shelves melting all over the place. Fine, teach it as a theory, but TEACH IT. "Frosty" perhaps could have used a few condoms to save his/her SEVEN children from being raised by a nutjob. Have your religion, feel free to it. Keep it out of my Government, my Schools, and my Laws. If you don't believe in Gay Marriage, don't marry one. If you think that stem cells are life, don't work with them. That is all a *personal* choice. Don't mandate into law what YOUR God doesn't like.

Also, condoms do belong in schools. Safe sex is important, and they're having sex anyway. Anyone who thinks differently is probably an idiot. 90% of Americans have pre-maritial sex (link [cbsnews.com] ) seems pretty damn important.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure Al Gore was a professor at Columbia for a time (visiting I know..) and that he's smarter than the idiot who seriously believes the earth is a few thousand years old.

Re:Umm.. Yeah.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17584564)

Why can't kids go to the store and buy their own damn condoms, like the rest of the non-Slashdot-reading world has to?

God wouldn't want it that way? Pft. (3, Interesting)

zaydana (729943) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584472)

Using Christianity to try and get this movie banned is just cheap. While intelligent design and creationism both don't have hard proof (some would argue it does, but the fact is nothing is provable 100%), all that Gore's movie does is provide evidence. In reality, the parent would only be complaining because Al Gore is presenting it, and he ran for president against Bush.

I mean common, Al Gore didn't even collect the evidence himself, he's only repeating what other people have found. What a load of croc.

The trouble with this situation and others is more (1)

zappepcs (820751) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584474)

drastic than imagined. This one case of a school board deciding what is science and comparing it to fundamentalist beliefs. Please note that they are 'beliefs' not proven facts which are being compared to hard science. I'm not going to tell you whether humankind is responsible for global warming or not, but the globe is getting warmer. That's proven on many levels.

When ever, and I mean WHEN EVER we let 'beliefs' guide our views and legislation regarding what is safe for the world or community, then we are lost. To ignore science in preference of 'beliefs' is to endanger those you love... children, family, etc. and perhaps we should enact legislation against such dangerous behavior.

Sure, its fine for you to believe what you want at home, but when you start bringing it into politics... time for you to be put in jail for crimes of endangerment and encitement...
Okay, that's probably overkill, but that's what comes to mind when I hear this stuff...

Opposing viewpoints (1)

MDMurphy (208495) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584476)

It's not unreasonable that some would argue with single viewpoints being presented to schoolchildren.
When the US President gives the State of the Union speech there is always a "contrasting" speech given by which ever major politcal party the President doesn't belong to. Actually most of the public speeches elict a response from "the other side". For split Supreme Court decisions there will be a majority and a minority opinion. For close votes the minority opinion is usually given close scrutiny. It's a given that the US goverment will speak from two different viewpoints. "Opposing Opinion" is not something new around here.

Are the teachers who are using "An Inconvenient Truth" as part of the curriculum allowing for any debate? Are they presenting any opposing points, even as part of a discussion as to why these other points might not have merit? Or, are they popping in a DVD and letting the word "Truth" in the title say it all?

The scariest line in the article was the one from the producer of the DVD "There is no opposing view to science". This implies that "science" is static, we'll never learn more and if we do learn more it will never conflict with what we know now. What a moron.

Only an idiot would declare the DVD all wrong. But only an idiot would swallow it all just because it was labled "science".

Re:Opposing viewpoints (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17584562)

I am not an idiot, and I declare the DVD errant. Global warming, bah! It's the coldest its been in a hundred years.

Re:Opposing viewpoints (1)

The Good Reverend (84440) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584686)

How many opposing viewpoints should we present? Just one? Just popular ones? Should this be true for everything? I'm sure you can find people who believe gravity is nonsense, that the holocaust never happened, and who think algebra is satanic. Do we teach all these things, too? Do we spend time in science classes explaining the origin theories of EVERY world religion?

No.

I wasn't in the classroom for the screenings, but I'm willing to believe that the film was used as a basis for discussion on the topic - that's how just about every film I saw in school was used. If this isn't true, then that's a problem with the teacher, not the material. This sounds like a case of nutjob parents, but the fact that the district sided with them is scary.

However... (1)

abes (82351) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584500)

Al Gore does serve as a powerful prophylactic.

Why does that make it into the article? (1)

fonetik (181656) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584516)

"Condoms don't belong in school, and neither does Al Gore. He's not a schoolteacher," said Frosty Hardison, a parent of seven who also said that he believes the Earth is 14,000 years old. "The information that's being presented is a very cockeyed view of what the truth is ... The Bible says that in the end times everything will burn up, but that perspective isn't in the DVD."'"

Why in the hell did the reporter continue to listen after "...14,000 years old". If the person had started to say "...I believe I am Napoleon and therefore global warming is wrong..." they would have backed away from that nutjob and looked for a more salient point of view. What the hell does any one's silly religious superstitions have to do with showing a science based documentary in a school? Seems to me that they can't attack the science so they make it about condoms and Al Gore.

In closing, I hope this guy gets vicious, painful ass-cancer.

The need for schools to teach critical thought (1)

seriv (698799) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584522)

Setting aside all of the problems in banning something in schools because it does not conform with someones religious views, a greater crime is being committed here. In the article, the school board member who works to ban the movie says, "the beauty of our society is we allow debate." Well, we have created a public debate outside of schools. It is largely isolated from students. Banning a subject to avoid controversy only adds to the current problems with the development of critical thought in schools.
Besides, the movie presents far more facts and, IMHO, has less bias then most movies shown in schools.

There's a reason for this (1)

Spacelem (189863) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584544)

The Bible says that in the end times everything will burn up, but that perspective isn't in the DVD.
That's because the Bible is a work of fiction, and its viewpoint has absolutely nothing to do with global warming. I really don't like idea of other people allowing the world to fall apart just because their favourite author said it will - we actually have some responsibility to look after the environment. I'm sure non-fundamentalists, or people from almost any other religion would agree.

Okay so everybody is right... a little bit (1)

gd23ka (324741) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584548)

we'll except maybe for the earth being just 14,000 years old ... anyway here goes

1. Global warming caused by human inhabitation is indeed a theory
2. There is a hell of a lot of opposition to that theory that needs to be heard
3. Condoms don't belong in class (there's lunch recess for that)
4. People like Al Gore should not be afforded a platform in public schools
5. This planet will indeed be vaporized when the sun switches to helium fusion
and turns into a red giant.

Other than that this is another interesting piece of propaganda trying to wake indignation
against questioning man-made global warming. Interesting because the spinmeisters used some pretty
odd ingredients like a school-board doing the right thing with a christian kook
thrown in for flavor.

Frosty Hardison, heretic (1)

ktakki (64573) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584550)

"Condoms don't belong in school, and neither does Al Gore. He's not a schoolteacher," said Frosty Hardison, a parent of seven who also said that he believes the Earth is 14,000 years old.

Heresy! The Earth and everything else in God's universe was created 6,000 [wikipedia.org] years ago.

Burn him!

"The information that's being presented is a very cockeyed view of what the truth is ... The Bible says that in the end times everything will burn up, but that perspective isn't in the DVD."

It is, however, going to be included in the Director's Cut, due for release December 21, 2012 [wikipedia.org] .

k.

...uhhhh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17584558)

FUKING bible thumper, get a clue. Evolution is real, global warming is real, and the earth is millions, if not billions years old!

For the record.... (1)

Amoeba (55277) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584566)

other "theories":

- Theory of Gravity
- Theory of Relativity
- Atomic Theory

mad as a bag of weasels (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17584572)

seeing as no one has stated the obvious:

, Nutter

And I hope for his kids

And the LORD said,"Everything will burn up, dude." (1)

CosmeticLobotamy (155360) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584574)

The Bible says that in the end times everything will burn up, but that perspective isn't in the DVD.

I assume he's talking about this:

The first sounded, and there followed hail and fire, mixed with blood, and they were thrown to the earth. One third of the earth was burnt up, and one third of the trees were burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

So, really? The temperature going up 2 degrees over a few decades is "hail and fire, mixed with blood?" Really? Dude, this apocalypse of yours doesn't really seem all that bad now.

Okay, let me get this straight: (1)

Mr. Samuel (950418) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584578)

So this parent is complaining that Al Gore should not impact what is taught at school because he is not a schoolteacher.

1. Is the parent a school teacher? If not...pot? Meet kettle.

2. As far as I'm aware, grade school/high school teachers don't come up with the knowledge that is taught in classrooms...they teach it. I'm guessing virtually everything taught in school should be barred by this person's "logic".

3. What is with people wanting unscientific, religious/metaphysical subject matter being taught alongside science in schools? If somebody wants to believe Earth is 14,000 years old, well, okay; but there's no reason to subject children to that kind of nonsense.

It's ridiculous (as with most religious problems) (1)

ukatoton (999756) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584612)

I can't believe some of the rubbish they come out with:

"From what I've seen (of the movie) and what my husband has expressed to me, if (the movie) is going to take the approach of 'bad America, bad America,' I don't think it should be shown at all," Gayle Hardison said. "If you're going to come in and just say America is creating the rotten ruin of the world, I don't think the video should be shown."
So they don't want it shown because it says that they might be contributing to the problems on our planet? They just want to close their eyes to the problems that will extend past their lifetime.

"The information that's being presented is a very cockeyed view of what the truth is. ... The Bible says that in the end times everything will burn up, but that perspective isn't in the DVD."
I thought the whole point of global warming was that it involves things to warm up, surely something would burn at some stage ;)

I live in the UK, so I may be wrong on this respect, but doesn't US law separate religion and the state? Surely a school should be under state jurisdiction. And surely, if any religion is mentioned, others should be mentioned in equal regard, so as not to shoe a bias of the state towards one religion.
Even in the UK, Christianity is one religion that school always teach in RE lessons (as far as I'm aware). Most of my lessons concentrated on Christianity, only later moving on to spending part of our time on Islam.
Even with that, recent events have caused a lot of nonsensical fear of other religions over here (mainly Islam), which cause many problems. At my old school, half the students in a class weren't allowed to go on a trip to a mosque, because parents would not sign permission slips. I'm sure the same problem wouldn't happen if it were a church.

I'm no fan of fundamentalism, especially that of Christianity, and events like these help to further cement my opinions on religions. I've got to the point where I'm not sure what I'm saying now, so I'll leave it at that.

Great, I went to Federal Way High School (1)

jlowery (47102) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584614)

Now I have to change the name when filling in future job applications for the high tech industry.

Kids, Global Warming IS a Theory... (1)

SaidinUnleashed (797936) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584616)

Didn't we all think we were going to freeze to death in the New Ice Age, back in the 60's and 70's? Because all the exaust from our cars absorbing heat above the surface, thus making the surface cooler?

Also... Correlation Does Not Imply Causation. Just because the emission of "greenhouse" gases has increased over the same period that the mean temperature of the planet has increased does not mean that the one caused the other.

The amount of increase compared to the total volume of the atmosphere of the planet is miniscule. Comparing present amounts to past amounts doesn't seem sound to me. Now, comparing present percent composition to past percent composition seems more logical to me, though I somehow doubt that these gases will even account for 0.00001% of the composition of the atmosphere, and the atmosphere is just too big to be affected be affected by something that small, even if it does contain heat better than nitrogen and oxygen.

And besides, by the time we are all forced to ride our bikes 90 miles each way to work and school every day (yes, I live 90 miles from work), the planet will already be cooling in its natural cycle anyway, the ecologists will declare success, but too bad, the Regression Fallacy [wikipedia.org] will have you in its clutches as well. Too bad. ;-)

Re:Kids, Global Warming IS a Theory... (1)

SaidinUnleashed (797936) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584674)

hmm, seems one of my links got lost after I previewed.

Well, here it is.

Correlation Does Not Imply Causation [wikipedia.org]

Have they seen the whole movie? (2, Informative)

snitmo (901312) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584628)

From TFA:

"From what I've seen (of the movie) and what my husband has expressed to me, if (the movie) is going to take the approach of 'bad America, bad America,' I don't think it should be shown at all," Gayle Hardison said. "If you're going to come in and just say America is creating the rotten ruin of the world, I don't think the video should be shown."

I wonder if they saw the whole movie. At the end of the movie, Gore stresses that the US has made strong contribution against global warming, and can do more. He really ends it with a positive note.

The danger of religion (1)

DaMattster (977781) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584644)

This is just one example of the danger of religion. The earth being 14,000 years old reminds me of the Book of Mormon, a book replete with erroneous and contradictory information. There is enough conclusive information to state that the earth is a lot older. Any other belief is ignorance bordering on closed-mindedness.

religion is just another theory anyway (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17584646)

yes, global warming is just a theory
So also are gravity, nuclear energy, escape velocity for space travel and numerous other things we deal with every day
This is how science works. Everything is a theoryu even when it is 100% backed up by proof because someone might find a proof that explains it better sometime in mankinds future.
until then the theory is the best explanation we have that can be proved to the best of our knowledge and abilities, any one who says it isnt so is merely encouraging those with the ability to strengthen the proof supporting the theory.
Of course there are always those who will believe in mysticism, mumbo jumbo or religion rather than verifiable science, but then again they are all just unprovable theories from an earlier stage of mankind's history

The movie can still be shown (2, Insightful)

the Gray Mouser (1013773) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584654)

If you RTFA you'll notice that teachers are still free to use the movie in their classes, all they need to do is present an opposing viewpoint. That is consistent with the school's position on all controversial topics, and yes, global warming (and especially its causes) is controversial.

If the theory behind global warming is so strong, then surely it will hold up under debate and scrutiny. Global warming advocates should welcome this opportunity to confront their skeptics head on.

Instead, they attempt to shout down and silence their critics (which seems to be a liberal trend). That doesn't strike me as being confident in your position.

proof against Darwin (1)

EllynGeek (824747) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584664)

If natural selection really worked, idiots like this guy would not live to breeding age, or find mates.

New Meme? (5, Funny)

stinerman (812158) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584666)

"Condoms don't belong in school, and neither does Al Gore."

Use in the following way:

"X doesn't belong in Y, and neither does Al Gore."

Examples:

"Cheese don't belong in hot dogs, and neither does Al Gore."
"Riker doesn't belong in the captain's chair, and neither does Al Gore."

*Note that verb tense can be changed at the leisure of the poster.

Here's to hoping that this one spreads better than the "Except in Nebraska" one of Steve Ballmer fame.

Al Gore (1)

joshsnow (551754) | more than 7 years ago | (#17584680)

Condoms don't belong in school, and neither does Al Gore. He's not a schoolteacher

No, but he leaves Steve Jobs messages on his iPhone apologising for not being at Jobs keynote. And he invented the interne...oh never mind.
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