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Apple/NVidia Driver Bug — Question Deleted

kdawson posted more than 7 years ago | from the sup-with-that? dept.

Bug 703

Joe Drago writes "I purchased a Mac Pro within the first week that they were available, and immediately upgraded to 3GB of RAM (knowing that OSX loves memory). When playing 3D games (World of Warcraft mainly), the game would Kernel Panic the machine if I had played it for a few hours, or if I swapped in and out of the game a few times, etc. I eventually found out (from an official Blizzard poster) that NVidia has a bug in their drivers that kernel panics a Mac Pro if any memory past the 2GB boundary is addressed in the driver. After waiting months for a resolution to this, I decided to post on Apple's support site. Here is an image of my post.. Within a few hours, they removed it from the site, placing it under 'Posts Removed by Administration.' What's going on here? Is Apple trying to hide this bug, or is there something more serious going on between Apple and NVidia?"

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Apple Policy (4, Insightful)

x_MeRLiN_x (935994) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607796)

I don't claim to know anything Apple's forum rules, but could it not be that the question was removed because they thought this was an Nvidia bug and as such not their responsibility to discuss?

Re:Apple Policy (5, Insightful)

TodMinuit (1026042) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607818)

So don't remove the post! Reply to it saying that and close the topic.

A new Apple icon needs to be added to Slashdot, showing a man gagged by an apple.

Re:Apple Policy (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17607888)

Is this what you're looking for? [wikipedia.org]

P.S. I can't believe you got modded troll. Sorry, what I am saying, the world is full of idiots.

Re:Apple Policy (0, Offtopic)

creimer (824291) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608202)

A new Apple icon needs to be added to Slashdot, showing a man gagged by an apple.

The text-only version of the Apple icon need to have rainbow-colored, overstriked letters. ;)

Re:Apple Policy (5, Insightful)

mrchaotica (681592) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607840)

If so, then they should post a reply to that effect -- not delete the whole thread!

the "problem" (5, Funny)

macadamia_harold (947445) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607802)

I eventually found out (from an official Blizzard poster) that NVidia has a bug in their drivers that kernel panics a Mac Pro if any memory past the 2GB boundary is addressed in the driver. After waiting months for a resolution to this, I decided to post on Apple's support site. Here is an image of my post.. Within a few hours, they removed it from the site, placing it under 'Posts Removed by Administration.'

Macs "just work". Everyone knows that. Obviously the "problem" is your fault, and/or you're a troll.

Re:the "problem" (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17607828)

I don't know if I should mod that insightful or informative. Please advise.

Re:the "problem" (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17608130)

"Please advise."

Obviously you can't do either now. You replied...

his "problem" isn't even possible! (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17607938)

He claims that "NVidia has a bug in their drivers", which everyone in the know should realize is impossible, since NVidia doesn't develop their own drivers for Macs!
AFAIK, these days NVidia cards on macs use drivers written by Apple based on source they liscenced from NVidia.

Clearly a troll.

Hopefully this won't be deleted soon. (1)

superj711 (992784) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607820)

I have a friend who has the exact same problem but he didn't post it on the forum. We took his MacBook Pro to an Apple store and they said they hadn't heard of this and recommended leaving the laptop there for testing. Blah blah blah.

Re:Hopefully this won't be deleted soon. (5, Informative)

papplegate (629003) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608110)

The article was about a Mac Pro, not a MacBook Pro, which is a laptop. The MacBook Pro has an ATI video card not a NVidia card.

Here's my take on it (5, Funny)

TitusC3v5 (608284) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607822)

[This comment has been deleted.]

Re:Here's my take on it (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17608092)

Why did this comment get deleted? I thought slashdot's moderating system meant offensive posts would just be moderated down. Is this a policy change?

No, slashdot has always been run by control freaks (4, Funny)

L7_ (645377) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608136)

[This comment has been removed by CmdrTaco Sunday January 14, @05:31PM]

Re:Here's my take on it (5, Informative)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608190)

That was a joke. However, Slashdot deletes posts. In the past, they've deleted posts containing scientology info, leaked MS source code, and DeCSS source code when lawyers threaten to sue. They've also deleted page widening and xss hacks. They also delete posts when archiving stories. It's not confirmed, but there was a lot of rumors that Michael Sims was fired for (among other reasons) deleting posts critical of him.

Easy. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17607824)

You didn't hail Steve Jobs as the saviour. They get upset if you don't.

Wrong place? (0, Redundant)

ack154 (591432) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607826)

So if you found out it's an Nvidia driver bug... why would you post in the Apple forums for an answer? Have you tried contacting Nvidia's support?

Re:Wrong place? (2, Insightful)

Frankie70 (803801) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607952)


So if you found out it's an Nvidia driver bug... why would you post in the Apple forums for an answer?


Because he purchased the machine from Apple. They are his one point support contact.
Do fanboys dislike Mac Owners approached Apple for support?

Re:Wrong place? (2, Insightful)

bluemonq (812827) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607958)

Because Apple talks about delivering an integrated experience and it's Apple who installed the video card and drivers, not the user?

Re:Wrong place? (5, Informative)

Karzz1 (306015) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608004)

The video card was standard in his machine. In other words... it was supplied by Apple. The drivers he is using are from Apple. Nvidia doesn't even offer Mac drivers on their site. [nvidia.com]

Re:Wrong place? (4, Informative)

duffbeer703 (177751) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608052)

NVidia will only directly support customers who purchase add-on cards. If you buy an Apple, Dell, HP, etc with an NVidia card, you need to work with the OEM to get a supported driver.

Antagonistic? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17607830)

Your message made you sound more like a total ass instead of someone who was truly looking for assistance. Perhaps that's why it was removed?

To strongly worded? (4, Insightful)

bcmm (768152) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607832)

The complaint is reasonable and mostly well put, but perhaps the speculation at then end annoyed them enough to make them remove it?

It still comes across as a bit unreasonable to remove it, however. But it's Apple. They don't expect you to upgrade things on your own.

Re:To strongly worded? (4, Funny)

Wonko the Sane (25252) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607864)

I wish I worked somewhere where I could get annoyed at my customers and treat them like that.

STFU and take it (2, Insightful)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607834)

You're a user of proprietary software, live with it.

Re:STFU and take it (1)

bcmm (768152) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607868)

Well, I use Linux, but when it comes to 3D accelerated graphics, I use proprietary software too. We're kind of stuck with binary drivers for reasonable desktop 3D performance for the time being, it seems.

I hope the Open Graphics project gets competitive enough to prompt some action on the part of the big GPU manufacturers.

Re:STFU and take it (1)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607878)

End of 2007 we'll have accelerated 3d drivers for nvidia cards that is open source.. so yeah, we'll just have to wait :( Or, ya know, contribute.

Re:STFU and take it (1)

Zerathdune (912589) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608140)

source?

Re:STFU and take it (1)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608204)

Personal correspondence with the Nouveau team. That's their estimate.

Re:STFU and take it (1)

dave420 (699308) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608124)

I hope the Open Graphics project is successful too, but unless they get tens of millions of dollars every year, and regular access to a time machine, they'll *never* be able to provide competative drivers. All they would end up doing is providing open drivers for the age-old cards no longer supported by the closed binary drivers, and maintaining them for new OSs.

Re:STFU and take it (-1, Flamebait)

melikamp (631205) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607946)

I wish I had mod points for you, chum. The only troll here is whoever modded the parent as a troll. The author of the FA forgot to turn and bend over before accepting the license agreement, and now he is crying about Apple and Nvidia suppressing bug reports. Here is a clue: if you don't like being treated as Apple's personal ATM, use free software.

Fuck those file sharing fucktards (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17607842)

At twofo [twofo.co.uk]

Spam it to death!

Vigilante justice for all!

DC++ hub.twofo.co.uk:4144

kittens!

Forum rules? (4, Interesting)

ParraCida (1018494) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607844)

Seems more like a complaint/accusation masked as a question, rather than a serious question and might have been removed for that reason.

Re:Forum rules? (2, Insightful)

belmolis (702863) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607994)

He may have expressed irritation, but he still asked a perfectly valid question. He's entitled to know if Apple agrees that there is a driver bug or thinks that something else is going on, and if it is a driver bug, are they working on it and when can the fix be expected.

A screen grab? (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17607846)

How often do people take screen grabs of their posts to a forum?

Was their expectation of it being removed? I find that more confusing then the fact that it was deleted.

Re:A screen grab? (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17607916)

Maybe he had it in his cache.

Re:A screen grab? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17608206)

Or still had it open in another tab.

Re:A screen grab? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17608096)

If he posted the question and it disappeared, then the next time he posted the same question he may have decided to take a screen grub.

I personally run GNU/Linux so I couldn't care less about Apple suckers^H^H^H forums.

Re:A screen grab? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17608158)

> I personally run GNU/Linux so I couldn't care less about Apple suckers^H^H^H forums.

So you're saying you don't even *have* a driver for that card to make your kernel panic? :)

Re:A screen grab? (1)

Sage Gaspar (688563) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608112)

In the first screen shot it looks like he could view it from his comment history even though it was nuked from the forum but that might not be something that can be directly linked. Also if it's someone in the know they might've posted it with the expectation of it being deleted so that they could expose whatever the scandalous part of this is supposed to be.

Intellectual property (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17607854)

Wow, I'm kind of surprised this popped up on slashdot (I figured it would get mentioned in a blog, at most, and forgotten about). I'm one of the admins on that forum, and can confirm that yes, we've been asked to nuke anything regarding nVidia, at least in certain contexts. One recent addition to our arrangement with them (to provide kernel drivers) involves some very restrictive IP deals that upper management has interpreted to mean we shouldn't even acknowledge certain kinds of bugs in a very specific area. It's my understanding that there are some serious showstopper bugs inherent to nvidia's platform independent core code that they really do not want releasing. Most of us think this is utter BS (and management being paranoid), fwiw.

And yes, there are enough forum admins that I'm not too scared about 'leaking' like this. Note that I'm keeping the exact details secret :p

Re:Intellectual property (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17607950)

No this was not a troll, thank you very f-ing much slashdot. I would never have stuck my neck out like this if I'd known some little kid on a power trip was going to make it so pointless.

Re:Intellectual property (1, Troll)

Wonko the Sane (25252) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607972)

There's always a chance that someone accidentally choose the wrong line in the selection box. Now that they got all web 2.0 with moderation, if you accidentally click the wrong line there's now way to reverse it.

Re:Intellectual property (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17608042)

Fair enough. Maybe that will be the official Apple comment if this story ever gets big enough ;-)

Re:Intellectual property (4, Insightful)

bcmm (768152) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608076)

Stuck your neck out? You are AC. Anyone could have posted that. In fact, I am somewhat doubtful that the parent and GP were even written by the same AC.

Re:Intellectual property (0, Flamebait)

Rie Beam (632299) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608082)

Who modded this up? If there was a shred of evidence that this was happening, I'd bite, but you can't just claim that Apple is supporting the nuking of driver threads to cover-up some annoying driver bug and not have something to back you up; otherwise, you come off looking like a troll.

Why? (4, Insightful)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608162)

There are lots of things that happen on /. that ppl can not offer direct evidence of it. If you like, assume that all of them are wrong. But I have seen things on here from AC's that I knew to be correct (by having worked at 2 of the places that had been talked about), but were said to be trolls or conspiracy theories. You simply have to ask wether you will accept the possibility. If so, then ask is it possible. Then decide what you want to do with it.

As to the current posting, yeah, it is possible. Apple is not high and mighty. They have been shown to be "evil" at times. Of course, it is not that surprising. Lots of companies do things like this.

Re:Intellectual property (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17608224)

I'm sorry, but I'm in kind of a delicate position. The more I leak, the more Apple _might_ decide to take serious action. And on this scale, I do not dare leak official policy documents. When I have a spare moment, I'll go over the admin-view forum page (where the deleted post still lives, along with an internal reply mentioning to other admins why it was deleted) and post a screenshot once I'm _absolutely sure_ I've scrubbed it of anything personally identifying.

I had kind of hoped that this post had the ring of truth to it - if the open source crowd are anything to go by (in trying to get specs and source for the nvidia card and drivers), nvidia are this paranoid with _everyone_.

Again, most of us here think the decision is batshit crazy. It may well be down to management being excessively paranoid in their interpretation of the license deal, but we don't know as we don't have access to those documents, only the management version. All I can confirm for sure is that this post (and several others like it) have been deleted in accordance with a policy that Apple believe is related to nvidia intellectual property. To the best of my knowledge though, there is no fix. My best reckoning is that this policy will quietly go away as if nothing happened when a fix is available.

Re:Intellectual property (1, Insightful)

rob1980 (941751) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608098)

I agree with you on the BS part. It's one thing to sell a product with a bug in it, but to squelch any mention of it while saying "nope! nothing wrong here! lol @ microsoft!" is downright ridiculous. It's unfortunate that a company of Apple's stature would enforce such a policy.

There's a glaring contradiction here... (-1, Troll)

Codename46 (889058) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607860)

Gaming? On a Mac? LOL

Re:There's a glaring contradiction here... (1)

GimliGloin (642963) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607904)

Yes, he is talking about WoW. It runs on the Mac you know....

Re:There's a glaring contradiction here... (1)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608022)

So what? I runs under WINE too.

Re:There's a glaring contradiction here... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17607912)

Yeah seriously.. Macs are just toys. Real computers let you play games!

Something fishy going off (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17607862)

It's pretty dodgy that they've removed this post with out any indication ...

But it also smells to me that you screenshot your forum posts too ???

Re:Something fishy going off (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17607906)

Ever heard of "cache"? //Just sayin

Re:Something fishy going off (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17607978)

But it also smells to me that you screenshot your forum posts too ???

Maybe he wasn't the first to get his Nvidia post deleted, maybe Apple deletes all posts relating to real bugs. I personaly think it's a design flaw in Apples hardware, They can't fix it in software but need to sell out the remaining stock of faulty hardware. Who needs more than 2 gigs anyway.

Re:Something fishy going off (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17608068)

If there weren't any screenshots, then you (or someone else) would be demanding proof. Guess you can't win.

A more obvious conclusion... (2, Insightful)

Rie Beam (632299) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607870)

So a post got deleted on a forum and the obvious explanation has to do with an inter-company conspiracy to cover for a driver bug? Didn't you bother to look for more obvious conclusions, like e-mailing an admin for an explanation, or maybe posting it again with an inquiry as the former deletion? There has to be less than this than claimed.

Re:A more obvious conclusion... (1, Redundant)

0rionx (915503) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607910)

I agree. The simplest explanation is always the most likely, especially when regarding conspiracy theories. I'd much sooner believe that a moderator thought it wasn't relevant to the forum, or was having a bad day, didn't like your tone, and deleted the post out of spite than that this is part of a massive cover-up.

Driver support (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17607872)

Apple and nVidia have both said, in public, many times, that in the specific case of Apple NV cards, the drivers are handled by Apple.

Re:Driver support (1)

Petrushka (815171) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608074)

But the AC post above [slashdot.org] suggests that there may be a problem with

nvidia's platform independent core code

Now, I don't know enough about OS X or about development to know whether "the drivers are handled by Apple" excludes the use of "platform independent core code", but in my uninformed state, it looks to me like we've only heard part of the story.

I'd love to see the commercial (5, Funny)

d474 (695126) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607884)

Apple Guy: Hi, I'm an Apple.
PC Guy: Hi, I'm a PC.
Apple Guy: *itching crotch*
PC Guy: Got a problem there?
Apple Guy: No, I'm fine. (*cockroaches fall to floor from pant leg*)
PC Guy: Having a little problem with that "Nvidia card"? (chuckles)
Apple Guy: *walks off set*
PC Guy: Don't mind him, he's just trying to support more than 2GB of RAM...

Re:I'd love to see the commercial (1)

Kawahee (901497) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608012)

Hilarious!

Re:I'd love to see the commercial (0, Offtopic)

BoRegardless (721219) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608056)

But SolidWorks in Win XP SP2 has a problem when approaching 2 GB use with one single application, er well actually it crashes.

Thus a "3 GB Switch" solution:

If you need help with the switch, you can find answers here.
http://www.kcswug.com/documents/3gb_switch_part_on e,_two,_&_three.pd [kcswug.com]

So much for a Mac only sort of issue.

Here's an idea... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17607886)

This was your first post asking about this issue, right?

Have you considered not being a snotty prick when asking for help?

"It sounds like either some sort of internal power struggle between Apple and Nvidia, or someone just dropped the ball."

"And no... 'purchasing an ATI card" is not a valid answer."

You're writing like you've been going in circles with their support, when from your own statement, this is your first correspondence with Apple directly about the issue. How about asking in a civil manner and not whining like a little bitch?

Not NVIDIA's problem (1, Insightful)

nukem996 (624036) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607894)

This would have nothing to do with NVIDIA unless there is a hardware bug with NVIDIA hardware that won't let you use more then 2gig of RAM, which is very unlikely. Apple develops the video drivers on their own, NVIDIA and ATI just give them the specs to their hardware.

Re:Not NVIDIA's problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17608016)

Apple develops the video drivers on their own, NVIDIA and ATI just give them the specs to their hardware.

Uh, source? You can't just bullshit like this and not expect anyone to call you on it.

Apple's Bugs (5, Informative)

Liquid-Gecka (319494) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607896)

This is what I would expect. When I bugged apple about their broken NFS support on servers they told us that engineers would get back to us. They never did. So I started asking on forums and mailing lists to see if I could get an answer and as soon as I brought it up the thread would get killed or the post would be deleted. Then when we had issues with MPICH it as the same dang thing. Eventually they admitted that MPICH2 works much nicer on Mac OS than MPICH 1 due to some network implementations stuff. Every time I brought it up on the forums though the thread would get killed. (For the curious, the problem that we where having was that an Apple server running NFS would always seem to forget about the last file in a directory when it cached the directory contents. so running "mkdir a; cd a; touch 1 2 3 4 5 6 ; cd .. ; rm -rf a" would fail one out of four times when being done over NFS. If you waited a half an hour then ran rm -rf a it would work great. This issue didn't happen when Mac OS systems mounted Linux NFS shares, but happened every time a Linux or Mac OS system mounted a NFS share off of a Mac OS based system. This was still happening to all of our PPC based systems as of last summer when we finally switched them over to PPC Linux, which made the problem go away) I guess what I am saying is that it is not surprising. Apple has always nuked threads that made them look bad so why not this one?

Re:Apple's Bugs (1)

value_added (719364) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608148)

This is what I would expect. When I bugged apple about their broken NFS support on servers they told us

Going a bit off-topic here, but I've been starting to fall for the It Just Works fanboyism and made up my mind just recently to buy a MacBook. All that unixy goodness, etc., right? Reading the above I have to wonder whether the It Just Works meme refers primarily to the GUI and hardware working as expected. If that's the case, I'll consider myself uninformed and pass on the idea until I learn something useful.

Apple Support (1)

jarrettwold2002 (601633) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607918)

I guess I never used the forums for support, I would just call up apple support. They were pretty solid at handling the only issue I had with my ibook, something to do with my battery charging if I recall.
    I would imagine that this is either a) an inept moderator, or b) something that touched a sore spot with the support staff. Either way though, they should be taking a look at it.
    Personally, if I was getting stonewalled, I would just use the irate caller tactic and bounce up a couple support tiers. Of course the other option is to post it on Slashdot ;)

I really wanted to buy a MacBook Pro but... (1, Interesting)

QuietLagoon (813062) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607920)

... the manner in which Apple attempts to hide problems discouraged me. This goes back to the original Intel-based MacBook Pros with the heat issue. I could not get a straight answer out of Apple when I asked about the problem.

I really like OS-X, however you have to buy Apple hardware in order to run OS-X. Apple does not support their hardware properly. Therefore, Apple does not support OS-X properly.

Censoring anything but "happy-talk" on their forums is not the answer. Apple are smart people, why can they not understand that simplest of simple concepts?

Re:I really wanted to buy a MacBook Pro but... (2, Interesting)

bcmm (768152) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608024)

Of course they are smart, and of course hushing things up is the answer.

Does Apple not have a reputation for excellent, reliable hardware that "just works"? I know Slashdot knows better, but the majority of people believe what they are told. Hushing things up makes perfectly good business sense, because by annoying a few customers, they avoid many potential customers learning to doubt the reliability of the product. They probably don't care that it isn't very nice for those customers, because they are a corporation and are legally obliged to maximise profits.

Re:I really wanted to buy a MacBook Pro but... (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17608166)

My experience with Apple's handling of reported bugs has been _very_ bad. I reported dozens of problems, all with as much technical information as possible (I am a OS programmer myself) and none of them got any resolution whatsoever except for some time passing comments which mostly intended to make me understand they don't care about the bugs.

Of particular mention is a security bug - complete with stack traces, register values and other goodies. No response and the bug still exists after 3 releases of the product.

Apple won't post (2, Informative)

ZombyHero (535222) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607922)

I spend a fair amount of time on the Apple forums. There's really nothing in your post that would seem to warrant such an action, at least compared to some of the trolls that pop up from time to time. But do bear in mind that the Apple forums are user-to-user support forums for Apple hardware and software. So asking to hear from an official source is a waste of time, because Apple-folk NEVER post on the forums. So in a sense, your post wasn't really aimed at allowing other users to troubleshoot an issue, and therefore not appropriate for the forums.

All that aside, I think its silly the post was deleted, since if this is true, it would be a serious issue. I'm planning on getting a Mac Pro this week (albeit with the Radeon card), and would certainly love to hear Apple's response.

Ahte to tell ya, Joe, but (-1, Flamebait)

WedgeTalon (823522) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607940)

Just suck it up and buy an ATI card. I've never had any worse an experience with and ATI card than nVidia. Plus, since you now know that nVidia has this known bug AND has no solution on the horizon (plus Apple's active supression, apparently, of nVidia bug posts), perhaps it is time to give the competition a try?

ATI X1x00 is the go (1, Interesting)

Dan B. (20610) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608006)

Without pushing aside the issue of censorship here, The parent to this is right. nVidia are cheaper cards, and do have 'known' issues. Had you done a little more research, you may have ordered the box with the X1900 in it in place of the nVidia. I know it is more expensive, but you get what you pay for.

In a nutshell, pay less money, expect more issues. You paid for the 2GB RAM upgrade, why not the GFX card upgrade!?

FYI, I play WoW on my MacBook Pro with 1GB and a 128MB X1600 and it manages to run at full resolution on my 24" LCD (external) with no drama, plus with the Blizzard engine now supporting dual core properly, will do anything from 25-100 fps. That game on OSX is not as resource hungry as people think.

Re:Ahte to tell ya, Joe, but (1)

duffbeer703 (177751) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608078)

That's kind of lame, eh? You except someone to disassemble a laptop to replace the video card? That's just nuts.

Re:Ahte to tell ya, Joe, but (1)

dave420 (699308) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608102)

Apple provide the nVidia drivers, not nVidia. This bug is apple's problem, so wailing on nVidia is pretty pointless.

Re:Ahte to tell ya, Joe, but (1)

kungfujesus (969971) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608214)

nVidia has always given me WAY less problems than ATI. I hate my 9800XT with a PASSION. Their linux support is absolutely shoddy.

How did you get the screenshot? (-1, Redundant)

Matt Perry (793115) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607942)

Something smells fishy. How did you get the screenshot of the post after it was deleted? Did you take the screenshot after posting because you suspected it would be deleted?

Re:How did you get the screenshot? (4, Insightful)

JanusFury (452699) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607960)

There's this thing in your browser called a cache that stores a copy of pages you visit...

Re:How did you get the screenshot? (1)

Matt Perry (793115) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608210)

There's this thing in your browser called a cache that stores a copy of pages you visit...
.. and shows them only if the page hasn't changed. So when he goes back and views his now deleted message, it's not loading a message from the cache saying the page is deleted.

Perhaps... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17607976)

they objected to the use of the word 'crap'. I know some sites object to "offensive" language, and "crap" is included in the list of words not allowed.

But also, perhaps rather than whinge on /. about it, you should e-mail the site administrator and ask for an explanation.

Windows does the same... (2, Interesting)

origamy (807009) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607982)

Try to play HL2 or any demanding Direct3D game in a Windows XP 32 bit system using the 3GB switch and the game will crash within 2 minutes. It doesn't surprise me to hear the same happening in Apple systems since the drivers are probably not so different.

Re:Windows does the same... (1)

Petrushka (815171) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608050)

Most interesting. This certainly seems to corroborate the anonymous post above [slashdot.org] , claiming to be from a forum admin,

that there are some serious showstopper bugs inherent to nvidia's platform independent core code that they really do not want releasing.

Of course there's no guarantee that this is a genuine corroboration, as you might be the person who wrote that post as an AC :-)

Re:Windows does the same... (1)

origamy (807009) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608088)

Nope, that wasn't me. I just happened to try to play HL2 this afternoon and it crashed (again) so I remembered I was running in 3GB mode. I also happen to work with 3dsmax and other heavy graphics intensive apps and we do need 3GB, but we also do run in problems where the drivers need the 2-3GB space, forcing us to use the /USERVA specifying less than 3GB to be used.

other issue (2, Funny)

AnnuitCoeptis (1049058) | more than 7 years ago | (#17607988)

So you dared to report that OS X with over 2GB of ram is crashing with one of the most standard video cards on the market (GeForce series) directly to Apple crew? Don't do that, you can get sued or worse..

Oh fer cryin'... (3, Insightful)

Hawthorne01 (575586) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608002)

Has this person never heard of Hanlon's Law [wikipedia.org] (with Hawthorne's Collary - "Because the latter is easily the most common element in the universe") ?

Either that, or the tinfoil hat's beginning to cut off circulation.

Slow News Day? (-1, Flamebait)

Rie Beam (632299) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608010)

Why is a minor forum dispute headlining Slashdot? Just because the poster thinks it's a sign of something bigger doesn't make it so; I'm ashamed of the editors for even letting this hit the front page. Perhaps this article should go the way of the poster's original?

Some suggestions (1)

sokoban (142301) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608030)

1 Switch to an ATI card. They always seem to work better with OS X. I don't know why, but the NVIDIA cards never seem to work that well for me in OS X.

2 Take out one stick of memory. 3GB is kind of excessive IMO for OS X unless you REALLY need that much memory. I used to run WoW, iTunes, Firefox, Ventrilo, and other apps just fine (when I played WoW) and never had any memory issues with 2 GB. I think the Mac Pro benefits from interleaving as well (don't quote me on that, I don't have one) and requires a specific memory configuration.

3 Play WoW under windows with bootcamp. It was always a little faster for me under XP than OS X, but my subscription ran out a little while ago.

Solution: (0, Troll)

Fungii (153063) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608036)

Stop playing WOW and do something useful with your life.

Possible reason (3, Insightful)

dtfinch (661405) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608058)

"Using your Mac Pro" might not have been the appropriate section to post your topic in.

Redundant bug: fix to be backdated (4, Funny)

vandan (151516) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608070)

The post was clearly redundant, as the bug will be fixed in the future, and the release date back-dated :)

Apple WORSE than you think. More QA issues! ... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17608132)

Its WORSE than you think! The bugs are now rampant.

Apple, like all software companies large and small, maintains an internal employee BugBase or bug database.

Other companies also include feature requests in such databases with acknowledgement from engineers.

It was a shining example from apple until a couple years ago some managers at Apple decided to irrationally ban thousands of Apple employees from being able to search and access Apple's bug database. This includes some of thier highest paid sales guys and highest paid "Systems Engineers" (not systems software engineers, but rather people that technically manage Fortune 100 company client accounts).

It is worse than Soviet Russia.

Apple did not hid or ban bugs, it merely BANNED ANYONE WHO NEEDS TO READ THEM FROM READING THEM EVER!

Now the database is a joke these years, as no one bothers to enhance the anecdotal evidence.

2 RETARDED QA EXAMPLES :
Apples blatant bugs throughout history are legendary and none were caught by their QA because their QA :

1 > NEVER ONCE SET SCSI DRIVES to ID #5 (7 choices, but every machine at apple QA was #1 and #2 I guess) so some PowerPC macs shipped with a bug that crashed when the hardware was issuing an interrupt cascading from a SCSI transfer interrupt on a SCSI drive with ID #5. traces were missing on the board. Apple Workaround was to cripple the OS and ROMS for that machine to make all SCSI smaller requests and not disconnect-reconnect to the bus. All the macs shipped defective.

2> NEVER HIRED PEOPLE for QA department familiar with commercial 300 dollar mac debuggers such as Viacom (ICOM) T/MON debugger, or Jasik's 'Mac Nosy The Debugger"; and only hired people for QA department familiar with crappy no frills free command line based "MacsBug" an ancient tool contracted out from Motorola and maintained sporadically by Apple for decades. MacsBug knowledge, even slight, is a requirement to pass hiring test of Apples gang of retards known as Apple QA department. I know many successful expert Mac software engineers that until a few years ago used T/MON so exclusively that they never once ever bothered to tolerate or use crappy Macsbug. and those were software engineers who thought nothing of spending 300 dollars on T/MON or 300 dollars on Mac Nosy The Debugger. And those were professional engineers! And they would have failed Apples retarded and inept QA hiring process based on use of a defective crappy free debugger.

3> Allowed a bug to go through where a timer chip was missing from the circuit board of a PowerPC mac used for network (802.3) usage and the code horrible stumbled along in a pathological state that ANYONE doing ANY form of file copying in Apples retarded QA department would have seen. All the macs shipped defective.

4> The left and right audio sources fed from the analog connector to the headphone jack of Apples best consumer multimedia macintosh at the time were backwards! Luckily QuickTime audio extraction was also buggy and reversed audio left-right so digital access was not flipped or discovered until Quicktime was fixed. QA did not catch it, QA did not even use a proper test audio CD. QA had no IQ to even imagine that stereo audio had a concept of left or right.

Etc, etc etc, There are hundreds of anecdotes of shipping failures that slipped past Apple's homogeneously low IQ, low imagination, no-creativity, zombie drone hordes at the laughable department of Apple QA (Quality Assurance) that the only way to fix it would be to gut it from the top and install some actual engineers to control the laughable department. Cutting off the FIELD employees at apple from the QA bug database and cutting off the service people and Systems Engineers (sales support dudes) only makes Apples QA five times more incompetent now.

I believe 100% that having memory buffer below 4 GB but above 2GB could fail in an Apple targeted Nvidia driver and believe 1005 that apple only tests with low memory and with 8 GB (now 16 GB) and nothing in between. Apples QA is the worst in the USA for any company of the Market Cap size of Apple (78 billion dollars) or the yearly sales of Apple.

Apples version of a >4GB driver is one that ping pongs RAM to and from a 4GB window using memory page mapping tricks, even if the driver is PCI space >4GB safe and aware. Apples own OS is a fake type of >4GB support, and unless they recently fixed it, you cannot REALLY DMA copy between >4GB addresses. I should not be so critical, Windows 95 and Windows Me had limits 4GB or RAM that proper drivers get delivered for many Oses, if at all. But calling an OS 64 bit clean that ping pongs windowed regions of RAM to 4GB in DMA physical address space momentarily on a I/O xfer, is not a real 64 bit OS. Apple should be ashamed.

At least they left it in a "Removed by Admin" area (1)

ivi (126837) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608150)

I don't mind (as much) being "censored" if the removed post
can later be accessed (hopefully also by others beside its
poster), albeit in an out-of-the-way area.

Only when "censors" simply make it disappear forever, with-
out a trace, do I mind their infringement of my free-speech,
such as it is... ;-)

impolite and immature (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17608164)

You post about a known bug, demand an explanation and contact info for who's handling it, and then submit a story to slashdot when the post is removed, *before* trying to work it out with their admins? And you say that Apple is mishandling it.

Now, if you really wanted to try to help: you could sign up for a developer account (connect.apple.com, there are free accounts if you don't want to pay for the benefits of being the full developer access), and report the bug at bugs.apple.com. In that venue, you will be asked for clarification if your bug is not considered an outright duplicate or non-issue. And if it's an outright duplicate or a non-issue, they'll notify you as such. In the case of a duplicate, they'll direct you to the original so you can keep tabs.

In the meantime, I recommend you remove your extra 1 GB of memory, keep working, and adjust your attitude. 2 GB is still a heck of a lot of RAM and I bet it will do quite well. Your hours-long sessions of Warcraft and buying memory on hearsay don't suggest to me that you're putting that extra memory to good use with professional apps anyway.

Apple isn't out to get you.

Dear Apple (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17608170)

Dear Apple,

I am a homosexual. I bought an Apple computer because of its well earned reputation for being "the" gay computer. Since I have become an Apple owner, I have been exposed to a whole new world of gay friends. It is really a pleasure to meet and compute with other homos such as myself.

I plan on using my new Apple computer as a way to entice and recruit young schoolboys into the homosexual lifestyle; it would be so helpful if you could produce more software which would appeal to young boys. Thanks in advance.

with much gayness,

Father Randy "Pudge" O'Day, S.J.

Maybe your post just sucks? (4, Insightful)

dr.badass (25287) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608174)

I read your post, and I'm struggling to figure out just what the hell your question is. You ask "who is fixing this bug?" but in a place where nobody that could actually provide the answer will be looking. You've clearly already made up your mind that there is some sort of "power struggle" or conspiracy going on, so what, if anything, could someone tell you that would satisfy you? I don't know what the criteria for removal is on those forums, but I suspect yours was removed because it was pointless and inflammatory, not because of any conspiracy. That you feel that having one forum post removed is a crisis worth submitting to Slashdot reeks of paranoia.

Why don't you try Apple's bug reporting site instead of the Discussion forums? You know, the place where you actually report bugs?

It's a new FCC rule (1)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 7 years ago | (#17608198)

You can't say "crap" on the internet.
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