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Political Strife Erupts in Second Life

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the getting-hot-in-there dept.

The Internet 156

covert.c writes "A real-life drama in the political world has spilled over into the virtual, as the Second Life headquarters of France's controversial Front National political party fell to violent protesters. The anti-FN activists, who had armed themselves with slogans, placards and weapons, leveled the digital buildings occupied by Front National. Second Life is often home to established political and social movements. It seems logical that opposing forces would also choose to make SL their stage."

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Uhm... (5, Insightful)

Bonker (243350) | more than 7 years ago | (#17655208)

Since when do MMO players need politics as an excuse for grief play?

Re:Uhm... (1)

F-3582 (996772) | more than 7 years ago | (#17655310)

Ever seen Wargames [imdb.com] ?

French Front National? Splitters! (5, Funny)

spun (1352) | more than 7 years ago | (#17655222)

Wait, we're the French Front National? I thought we were the National French Front. Oh, that's him over there is it? Splitter!

Re:French Front National? Splitters! (1, Funny)

Cycon (11899) | more than 7 years ago | (#17656356)

You should so read this xkcd comic:


http://www.xkcd.com/c16.html [xkcd.com]

Nothing personal, but between your quote and the sig...

Re:French Front National? Splitters! (2)

soft_guy (534437) | more than 7 years ago | (#17657802)

xkcd rules. It is the best comic strip.

Some are more equal than others... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17655228)

So the protesters stoop to violence and destruction of (virtual) property in their aim to stop the FN from exercising their basic human right of free speech and political representation.

FN claims to be a bulwark against the encroaching tide of terrorism and violent radicals. Attacks like this just prove them right.

Re:Some are more equal than others... (5, Funny)

Jafafa Hots (580169) | more than 7 years ago | (#17655298)

Violence? Destruction?

It's pixels on a fucking screen. It's not a life, second or otherwise.
If you're going to be outraged, at least be consistent and mourn the thousands of times I've died at the hands of twink campers in World of Warcraft.

Re:Some are more equal than others... (2, Interesting)

arbarbonif (307596) | more than 7 years ago | (#17655760)

Of course life is just a collection of atoms in an untidy heap.

That said, I hate getting ganked.

Re:Some are more equal than others... (1)

uofitorn (804157) | more than 7 years ago | (#17657318)

If you're going to be outraged

I did not get the impression that he was outraged.

Re:Some are more equal than others... (1)

Schraegstrichpunkt (931443) | more than 7 years ago | (#17659310)

He's not outraged. He's virtually outraged---on Slashdot.

Re:Some are more equal than others... (1, Insightful)

Panaflex (13191) | more than 7 years ago | (#17655410)

Hrm.. is it merely a game, or a pretext towards a more radical real world?

Comments like "it's unacceptable to debate" seem rather more like Hitler's goons. Truly scary if that's the future of France.. and perhaps Europe.

Re:Some are more equal than others... (3, Insightful)

MrShaggy (683273) | more than 7 years ago | (#17659348)

As horrible and disgusting as this sounds, tis is something that I almost understand the why, but not much after.

There were a number of rogue nations, and groups, like the KKK, Hitlers youth, etc. etc. The recently held a conference in a mid-eastern state (Iran I believe). They were there to discuss the idea that the holocaust never happened.

They were in this country, to say that because of their Countries laws surrounding denying that this ever happened, or even to talk about in the streets, is trampling on their rights to free speech.

Like I said, I can understand why they are thinking like that. It stems that some ideas are better then others. I wonder if this is becoming like anything else that the more they try to tighten these people, the more these people will fight back.

I can understand why Germany is afraid of these white-supremacy ideas. The trouble is that you might force them underground even more, where you can't see them. Any time you arrest someone for something they thought, they become a martyr (in that sort of way).

I don't want hate speech either, but as long as it isn't acted on, there shouldn't be any reason to step on it.

In the game world is a reflection of what we do here. In some games, yah its nothing but fun. In others people are destroying what you created. But at ;least both parties feel that they can stand for what they believe in. Thats the good thing, and no-one got hurt in the process. hmmmm Maybe someone should build a White-House, so we Canadians can come and burn it down again.

Re:Some are more equal than others... (1)

taniwha (70410) | more than 7 years ago | (#17655648)

some of that seems that way, others seem to have done the "the best way to deal with speech you don't like is not censorship but more speech" thing by errecting their own signs - I don't think you should tar them all with the same brush

Of course if the LePennists show up and set up shop and 100,000 other people come along and erect their own signs is it democracy and free speech or censorship? I tend to fall on the democracy/more speech is better than less world view

Re:Some are more equal than others... (1)

Mr. Slippery (47854) | more than 7 years ago | (#17657526)

So the protesters stoop to violence and destruction of (virtual) property in their aim to stop the FN from exercising their basic human right of free speech and political representation.

"Virtual" property? No such thing.

In a computer game, strafing a "building" with "gunfire" is just an act of expression. It's a purely symbolic realm.

The "violence" and "destruction" is no more real than in a Quake deathmatch. (Yeah, I should probably use a more contempory example, but I'm old. You kids today with your MMORPGs...)

Re:Some are more equal than others... (3, Interesting)

hey! (33014) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658568)

You raise an interesting question.

If Second Life is a role playing game, then the attackers are just playing a different side.

So: when a real political organization establishes a presence in a game as themselves, do they get the same protections for their virtual activities (including speech) that they do for their real activities? If people silence them and destroy their assets in the game is it the same as taking the same actions outside the game?

I'd say no. There is a difference between actions in a virtual world and the real one, even if the parties are the same and the motivations are the same and the actions are parallel. What matters in the virtual world is the terms of service. If the attackers did not violate the terms of service set by the provider, then they were within their rights, which are completely defined by the provider. If you don't like it, you go to a different provider.

You have no such choice of real worlds.

Sadly... (5, Funny)

creimer (824291) | more than 7 years ago | (#17655354)

You need a third life to get away from the politics.

Even more sadly... (0, Troll)

DietCoke (139072) | more than 7 years ago | (#17656060)

You need a fourth to get away from the French completely.

Amazing (4, Informative)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#17655366)

Wikipedia makes them look like a sort of "wind back the clock" party. I'm amazed that they were even willing to have a headquarters in second life. They seem to be very protectionist and provincial. Their general delegate was suspended from his professorial position for five years for historical revisionism. The founded had to pay 1.2M francs (~200k Euros) for the same sort of thing, claiming the Germans' occupation "hadn't been so inhumane". (I don't agree with this lack of freedom of speech in France, but they're kind of a nasty country anyway, with cops wearing masks so they can't be identfied in court and the like.) I mean, Le Pen would actually like to evict all non-european immigrants from France. I don't think doing your best to evict them from second life is actually wrong. FN has basically declared war, and at the same time diluted the name of my favorite Belgian arms manufacturer. I say string 'em up! (digitally)

I'll have to disagree with you. (2, Interesting)

haakondahl (893488) | more than 7 years ago | (#17655836)

Who in France would not wish to turn back the clock?

Every night, over 100 cars are burned by the immigrants who will be the new France. The birthrate is below replacement rate. 43% of all children in France are born to unwed mothers.

France is quietly fighting an intifada in les banlieux (sp?), and France is losing. You might say that France is a quagmire.

If you like France the way it was, I recommend that you visit soon, and take lots of pictures. The France to come will be a Muslim nation. Some people like it that way. The Paristinians certainly would. Those who prefer the former and vanishing culture of France would like to turn back the clock.

This is hardly anti-Islamic sentiment, although it is anti-Islamist. Mods and replies, please draw the distinction before you accuse me of something terrible. There are plenty of Islamic nations out there, but only Islamists feel that France should also become such a place.

Are MMO games even allowed under Shari'a?

Re:I'll have to disagree with you. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17656130)

100 cars a night are being burned? Didn't that stop long ago?
Doesn't France have the highest birth rate in the EU? Last I saw it was the only EU nation with actual population growth when you subtract immigration.
Hasn't every study of France's muslim population shown them to be the best integrated of any Western nation? Even the US.
The most recent study I saw showed French muslims being less anti-semitic than the average American as well!

To me what you wrote reads like the hyperbole of the stereotypical anti-immigration demagogue. You can change the subject from muslims to any other immigrant group in any other country at any other point in history. They used to say the same thing about the Poles. In the US they said the same thing about the Irish. There is no reason why the muslims will not be like every other immigrant group. It's absurd to think they will ever take over the country, France especially because it is so radically secular. The idea that any religious group would be able to impose a theocracy on France is a joke.

Re:I'll have to disagree with you. (1)

MBraynard (653724) | more than 7 years ago | (#17656710)

There is no reason why the muslims will not be like every other immigrant group.

Look more carefully. Evidence to the contrary is ample. Perhaps the best example is what is happening in the Netherlands.

What evidence do you have that they are anything like the Irish in the US? The Muslim in France is a very, very different story.

Get out from behind your PC (both kinds).

Re:I'll have to disagree with you. (3, Insightful)

Knara (9377) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658430)

While I'm not nearly conversant enough in modern French sociology to debate the finer points, I feel the need to point out that individual incidents that make the news are not enough to make a blanket claim as to the every day state of affairs, or justification for characterizing an entire segment of a society. Your line of reasoning would seem to indicate that your stance is more closely defined as bigotry instead of carefully considered concern.

Re:I'll have to disagree with you. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17656144)

Is the loss of the cowardly and spineless such that we lament?
Come take home your trash indeed.

Re:I'll have to disagree with you. (1)

mabinogi (74033) | more than 7 years ago | (#17657060)

And that from someone unwilling to put their name to their post.

Re:I'll have to disagree with you. (1, Flamebait)

Ford Prefect (8777) | more than 7 years ago | (#17656164)

Every night, over 100 cars are burned by the immigrants who will be the new France. The birthrate is below replacement rate. 43% of all children in France are born to unwed mothers.

IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD! UNWED MOTHERS! FILTHY, HORRIBLE IMMIGRANTS EVERYWHERE! ...

Do you read the Daily Mail [dailymail.co.uk] ? You'd probably like it.

Nifty how I get modded a troll... (1)

haakondahl (893488) | more than 7 years ago | (#17657458)

While your flaming flamebait sits unremarked. Please step to the window on the left to pick up youor Slashdot +3 Liberal mod.

Re:Nifty how I get modded a troll... (1)

dangitman (862676) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658802)

While your flaming flamebait sits unremarked.

Why act surprised, when you were trolling with racism and sexism, and you know it? The GP post is not flamebait - it's just exposing your flamebait for what it really is.

Re:I'll have to disagree with you. (1)

drapeau06 (1010311) | more than 7 years ago | (#17656996)

The birthrate is below replacement rate.

You write this like it's a problem, but it's not. World-wide, we need the birthrate to drop below replacement. If you are correct, France is just doing its part.

Re:I'll have to disagree with you. (1)

haakondahl (893488) | more than 7 years ago | (#17657374)

Gee, I hope I don't get called a troll again, but I'll disagree with you as well.

Developed countries do not have an overpopulation problem. Undeveloped countries do. There may come a day when the earth as a place (and a system, etc) has an overpopulation problem, and by that time, I would hope that development is not such a dicey proposition.

But if France gives up on making French people, then there will be no France, no matter how many people immigrate from other areas. That region will then be something else where France used to be. Please see Istanbul for details.

Can you think of a better way to help developing countries than by freeing them from unplannable family growth? All handouts do is exacerbate the problem of overpopulation by removing both incentive and ability to change the situation.

Heh. Does Second Life have a population problem?

Re:I'll have to disagree with you. (1)

Knara (9377) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658588)

No matter. If France gives up making French people, it will just import other people and re-define French to be "them", just like they do with vocabulary every year :P

Re:I'll have to disagree with you. (2, Informative)

vakuona (788200) | more than 7 years ago | (#17657456)

Birth rate dropping below replacement rate causes havoc with most countries social security systems and pensions, which were mostly built under the assumption that populations will remain stable or increase slightly for it to actually work. So unless the developed countries want to accept even more immigrants than they do already, (no complaining here, I am an immigrant myself - legal of course), then they better start having enough kids to replace their current populations.

So unless you want to wake up one morning and find out that your pension promise is now worth nothing, you bloody slashdotters should be going out and getting laid a little more, and making babies. In the name of science (what science?) of course. Hey wait, what am I doing here?

Pink Floyd (1)

Cheesey (70139) | more than 7 years ago | (#17657026)

Pink Floyd wrote a song about the British equivalent of the Front National. Here is an excerpt.

Would you like to see Britannia,
Rule again, my friend?
All you have to do is follow the worms.
Would you like to send our coloured cousins,
Home again, my friend?
All you need to do is follow the worms.

Waiting, to cut out the deadwood.
Waiting, to clean up the city.
Waiting, to follow the worms.
Waiting, to put on a black shirt.
Waiting, to weed out the weaklings.
Waiting, to smash in their windows and kick in their doors.
Waiting, for the final solution to strengthen the strain.
Waiting, to follow the worms.
Waiting, to turn on the showers and fire the ovens.
Waiting, for the queers and the coons and the reds and the jews.
Waiting, to follow the worms.

-- Pink Floyd, The Wall, side 4 of 4, Waiting for the Worms

Could an attempt to "turn back the clock" actually lead to something far worse? It's not unreasonable to think so. Just what is the FN's "final solution" for the Islamic question? Just what will they do about single mothers and ethnic minorities? Given that their strategy so far is straight out of the Dr Goebbels songbook, it's not too hard to guess.

Re:Pink Floyd (2, Insightful)

Original Replica (908688) | more than 7 years ago | (#17657436)

"Just what is the FN's "final solution" for the Islamic question?"

Let's hope it's better than Islam's "solution" for infidels. Is there a world wide war of incompatible cultures? Islam vs. the Western World? If it is war how show a cultural war be fought?

Re:Pink Floyd (2, Interesting)

mr100percent (57156) | more than 7 years ago | (#17657574)

Let's hope it's better than Islam's "solution" for infidels


What, allowing them freedom to practice their own religion [everything2.com] and protection by the Islamic government? Even Iran lets the Jewish MPs in office, and swear on the torah or bible.


Quit your FUD.

Re:Pink Floyd (1)

bucky0 (229117) | more than 7 years ago | (#17657804)

Not to disagree with your main point, but Iran's constitution makes it so that every minority gets an MP. Whether it's a token gesture or if he actually can do things there is another question.

Re:Pink Floyd (2, Interesting)

Original Replica (908688) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658008)

"One of the greatest debates within the Muslim Ummah, one that causes division within the Islamic nation and that is often used by the enemies of Islam as a means of ascribing brutality to our religion is centered on the methods by which Islam was propagated throughout the globe. Was Islam spread by the sword? The quick answer to this question is a resounding yes and in this article, we hope to set the record straight using the evidence from the Qur'an and the Sunnah, the practice of the Guided Caliphs and the consensus of the righteous scholars of the Ummah, inshaAllah. While the evidences in this article are by no means exhaustive, inshaAllah they will be adequate to lay this matter to rest...The Prophet (pbuh) said to Abu Hurariah: "You (Muslims) are the best of people for mankind. You bring them in chains to accept Islam so that they end up in paradise (if they fully adhere to it and Allah accepts their deeds). " http://www.jihadunspun.com/intheatre_internal.php? article=107152&list=/home.php [jihadunspun.com]

This is more the part of Islam that concerns me.

Re:Pink Floyd (2, Insightful)

dangitman (862676) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658890)

Let's hope it's better than Islam's "solution" for infidels.

I didn't realize that the only two options were ultra-right-wing racist Westerners and ultra-right-wing racist Islamists. I could have sworn there were other choices of how we run our societies and governments.

Any other fabulously wealthy rock stars... (1)

haakondahl (893488) | more than 7 years ago | (#17657546)

...whom you wish to cite as policy guidance?

Re:I'll have to disagree with you. (1)

Maxo-Texas (864189) | more than 7 years ago | (#17657372)

Same issue in the southern US only it's catholic hispanics.

Essentially, in 40 years they are going to be the majority.

Rest of us are not breeding. I only had one child myself.

Re:I'll have to disagree with you. (1)

dangitman (862676) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658912)

Essentially, in 40 years they are going to be the majority.

Yeah, so what's the problem?

This post does not contain my opinion (1)

heinousjay (683506) | more than 7 years ago | (#17659192)

Well, they have dark skin. Duh.

Re:I'll have to disagree with you. (1)

Maxo-Texas (864189) | more than 7 years ago | (#17659432)

1) They play their music (heavy polka/bass beat) in their houses so loud at 2 am that you can hear it 3 blocks away.
2) They play their music during the day so loud that you can hear it even further away.
3) They are mostly catholic and are going to enforce catholic social values once they are in the majority.
4) They mostly speak spanish- not english so I can't understand them.
5) Many feel they should take the area back to Mexico and carry mexican flags when they demonstrated recently.
6) I can deal with the pink and blue houses but it does depress property values (maybe it won't once they are in the majority).
7) Their children tend to form gangs more than we did when we were children.
8) They tend to favor more authoritarian governments (because of the catholicism I suspect).

I don't - I could go on but why bother. You've already made up your mind.

The Horder is back! (1)

BillGatesLoveChild (1046184) | more than 7 years ago | (#17656190)

> Wikipedia makes them look like a sort of "wind back the clock" party.


Maybe Europe is annoyed at the U.S. muscling in on their "starting wars" monopoly and attempting to reclaim it? Not a problem, because this is easily solved:


Create a bogus Secondlife filled with Eliza-bots. Hack the French DNS servers to divert there. Hopefully they'll never catch on! ;-)

Re:Amazing (1)

OECD (639690) | more than 7 years ago | (#17656478)

The founded had to pay 1.2M francs (~200k Euros) for the same sort of thing, claiming the Germans' occupation "hadn't been so inhumane". (I don't agree with this lack of freedom of speech in France, but they're kind of a nasty country anyway, with cops wearing masks so they can't be identfied in court and the like.)

Souds like he may have been on to something...

Re:Amazing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17657418)

You have obviously lived there to know so well that it is "kind of a nasty country".

Or at least thoroughly researched your opinion.

Or are just one of the millions recycling half understood snippets from misleading news sources, distinguished from those in Europe doing so merely by the coincidental name of the country being bashed.

Right?

Wikipedia.... is like soaping up without water. (1)

gd23ka (324741) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658604)

"Wikipedia makes them look like a sort of "wind back the clock" party. "

With anything remotely political, taboo or maybe just not in sync with world socialism
when you look up stuff I recommend you read the discussion page too and look through
the article's history to see what they have deleted. Reading just the article by itself
is just as pointless as trying to lather up with soap but without water.

Funny how it's always the Left (1, Flamebait)

M1rth (790840) | more than 7 years ago | (#17655384)

who go to violence and insist that anyone who disagrees with them shouldn't be allowed to speak, while paradoxically insisting that their own "right to free speech" is paramount.

Re:Funny how it's always the Left (2, Funny)

Jafafa Hots (580169) | more than 7 years ago | (#17655710)

Good point. Next time you hear some damned hippie complaining about NSA wiretapping, abu ghraib, guantanimo bay, and the loss of habeus corpus, make sure to come back at them by pointing to this outrageous violent attack.

Re:Funny how it's always the Left (3, Insightful)

darqit (1040654) | more than 7 years ago | (#17655882)

How do you figure its always the left that resorts to violence? quite a claim you're making there. I won't deny that there are leftist groups who resort to violence, but there are also right wing groups which do the same. They are called extremists. They are on both sides of the scale.

As for the right to free speech. You should look up where it came from. It's a liberal principle. If it's from either side of the scale it would be more right than left.

Furthermore stating someone isn't allowed to speak because it doesn't fit in with your own views is politics 1 on 1

Re:Funny how it's always the Left (1)

PhilipMarlowe9000 (1035214) | more than 7 years ago | (#17656630)

Mussolini and Hitler (the best known examples of the uber-right extremists) weren't liberals, so far as I remember; furthermore, "right" can have many meanings depending on the context or nation. As for Second Life, I'm waiting for some guys to stage a coup, steal everything, and install a military dicatorship. Then the virtual resistance would begin, and the virtual counter-coup and so on....

Funny how it's always the Right (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17656066)

who kill cute little babies with guns.

No, I didn't mean the babies have guns.

Re:Funny how it's always the Left (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17657304)

Wow, I had no idea the fanatic Muslims were so hard left, what with their riots and lynching and assassinated 3 year olds while paradoxically insiting that they're not "violent".

I have just one question. (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17655402)

Who surrendered?

Re:I have just one question. (1, Funny)

spun (1352) | more than 7 years ago | (#17655808)

Well, it was the French fighting the French, so I'm guessing the French surrendered. Which means the French won, which common sense tells us is impossible, so logically that means that rather than the French, it was actually the French who surrendered... Wait...

Re:I have just one question. (4, Funny)

dbIII (701233) | more than 7 years ago | (#17657794)

If the French never won America would be a monarchy run by a King named George - hang on - you may be right.

Second life needs to take it down a few notches (1)

ILuvRamen (1026668) | more than 7 years ago | (#17655478)

you gotta wonder when the first real-world conflict (aka war) would start from something that happened in Second Life. Those ppl take it way too seriously. I wouldn't even put it past the North Koreans to invade South Korea so they can steal all the silk from Silkroad Online (an MMORPG) That crazy leader guy has kidnapped movie stars from south korea to make a movie that he wrote ffs! Let's hope he doesn't start playing second life.

Re:Second life needs to take it down a few notches (1, Troll)

Turn-X Alphonse (789240) | more than 7 years ago | (#17657506)

Asians tend to set aside racial differences to pick on everyone else in MMORPGs if you haven't noticed.

Youtube all over again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17655566)

So basically any stupid crap that happens on Second Life will instantly be newsworthy? Where did all of this hype come from?

Another demonstration of the tolerance of the left (2, Insightful)

jmorris42 (1458) | more than 7 years ago | (#17655576)

Yup, in the left's worldview you are allowed to be any race, color, gender identity, etc. If you keep it in the closet and swear that it doesn't actually influence your behaviour you can even have a religion. But deviate from the accepted policy positions of the left and watch how little tolerance they have for that. They will violently suppress the slightest deviation from orthodox socialism.

Compare this with the other story posted today where US leftists are aiming to revoke the 1st Amendment in their continuing efforts to suppress political dissent during campaigns, reign in unregulated bloggers, the earlier story where they want to force changes in FCC rules to eliminate dissent on the airwaves, etc.

To a "progressive" diversity is looking as different as you want while thinking alike. Tolerance is a codeword for oppression. And of course "progressive" itself is a codeword for a retreat into failed 20th Century *isms. If anything Orwell was too optimistic.

Re:Another demonstration of the tolerance of the l (4, Insightful)

Ford Prefect (8777) | more than 7 years ago | (#17656272)

But deviate from the accepted policy positions of the left and watch how little tolerance they have for that. They will violently suppress the slightest deviation from orthodox socialism.

Absolutely. And paranoids on the right are correct - there is a global leftist conspiracy. We receive our orders from the Party on a daily basis, and follow them to the letter. Good news, too - you'll be the first up against the firing squads come the glorious revolution.

...

To me, the news story was about a pseudo-fascist political group in France trying to leap on to the bandwagon of publicity about Second Life, before being chased off their server in a typically amusing manner by a bunch of online griefers. However, assorted Slashdotters appear to take this as evidence of some kind of hateful leftist conspiracy, intent on stifling free speech and dissent on the internet.

Oh noes!

Re:Another demonstration of the tolerance of the l (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17657180)

Silence Comrade! The Elders of Zion will not be pleased with you sharing our secrets to the uninitiated.

Re:Another demonstration of the tolerance of the l (2, Funny)

Lallander (968402) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658174)

Sorry, The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy defines the marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation as "a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes." We will have to be content with second.

Not left vs. right (4, Insightful)

Cheesey (70139) | more than 7 years ago | (#17656388)

Hmm. It's not really a left vs. right issue. I think that protests against the FN are really about drawing attention to the nature of the FN.

Neo-Nazi organisations like the FN and the BNP in Britain have come up with a "respectable" face. Now they are patriots. It's all about conserving traditional values, a return to the way things were at some magical point in history when things were Good. Traditional justice, small government, support for local business, more policing - who wouldn't want that?

But there's much more to it than that. Underneath, the same people are involved, and they want the same thing - power. Power like the kind of power Hitler had. And their bigoted views are lurking just out of sight: Send the darkies home, fight back against the Muslims (terrorists, dontchaknow). Holocaust? What holocaust?

Some people will support them because they are genuine bigots. But I believe that most people are basically good, not intrinsically racist. It is these people who should understand the true nature of the FN before they make the mistake of voting for them.

Everyone, whether liberal, conservative, or socialist, should speak out against fascist ideas. Your political viewpoint doesn't matter: no-one wants a dictator.

Re:Not left vs. right (1)

PhilipMarlowe9000 (1035214) | more than 7 years ago | (#17656700)

Yeah, the far right is really disturbing. The BNP in particular takes the cake for not participating in British politics normally; their goal is to instead wait for an economic depression and take power (a la the "Nordic Fire" party in V for Vendetta) The Guardian (http://politics.guardian.co.uk/farright/story/0,, 1977520,00.html): "The handbook, which sets out a 17-point programme intended to help activists raise levels of support, adds: "We must do this with a sense of urgency as we do not have centuries in which to gradually achieve our aims." BNP leaders believe they need to increase the number of potential supporters, convinced that many would consider turning to the party at a time of deep economic crisis. Mr Griffin is convinced that the support of just 18% of the British electorate would put the party just "one crisis away from power". This strategy was laid out by Mr Griffin in a speech to a closed meeting of American white supremacists and European far-right party activists in New Orleans last year. In a recording of the speech obtained by the Guardian, he tells his audience to prepare now for "an age of scarcity that will be a once-in-200-years opportunity". He not only believes that an economic crisis of catastrophic proportions would present a great opportunity for the BNP: he appears to be convinced that such a crisis is inevitable, the result of global warming, fuel shortages and mounting debt. "When the revolution comes, the revolution which is going to sweep away this nightmare, it is going to come in Europe, and it's going to come very suddenly," he told the New Orleans audience. "Bang: one month they don't support you, the next month - if you've done your homework and the circumstances are right - they are prepared to support you."

Re:Not left vs. right (1)

Oracle of Bandwidth (528405) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658226)

Can you want to restrict immigration from backwards countries? If not do you really want to live in plauge infected africa?

Cute, but (1)

StarKruzr (74642) | more than 7 years ago | (#17657572)

no.

Re:Another demonstration of the tolerance of the l (1)

illegalcortex (1007791) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658234)

Compare this with the other story posted today where US leftists are aiming to revoke the 1st Amendment in their continuing efforts to suppress political dissent during campaigns, reign in unregulated bloggers
*sigh* Should I even bother to point out that the whole "reign in unregulated bloggers" is an amendment by David Vitter (R-LA)? Of course, then I'd have to explain that's it's being overblown anyway. Oh, nevermind, have fun with your tirade.

Re:Another demonstration of the tolerance of the l (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17658796)

care to link? from what i can tell the bill is sponsered by 16 ds and 2 rs.
here are his amendments:
  5. S.AMDT.5 to S.1 To modify the application of the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 to Indian tribes.
Sponsor: Sen Vitter, David [LA] (introduced 1/9/2007) Cosponsors (1)
Latest Major Action: 1/10/2007 Motion to table amendment SA 5 agreed to in Senate by Yea-Nay Vote. 56 - 40. Record Vote Number: 3.

6. S.AMDT.6 to S.1 to prohibit authorized committees and leadership PACs from employing the spouse or immediate family members of any candidate or Federal office holder connected to the committee.
Sponsor: Sen Vitter, David [LA] (introduced 1/9/2007) Cosponsors (None)
Latest Major Action: 1/10/2007 Motion to table amendment SA 6 agreed to in Senate by Yea-Nay. 54 - 41. Record Vote Number: 4.

7. S.AMDT.7 to S.1 To amend the Ethics in Government Act of 1978 to establish criminal penalties for knowingly and willfully falsifying or failing to file or report certain information required to be reported under that Act, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen Vitter, David [LA] (introduced 1/9/2007) Cosponsors (None)
Latest Major Action: 1/10/2007 Senate amendment agreed to. Status: Amendment SA 7 agreed to in Senate by Yea-Nay Vote. 93 - 2. Record Vote Number: 2

  9. S.AMDT.9 to S.1 To prohibit Members from having official contact with any spouse of a Member who is a registered lobbyist.
Sponsor: Sen Vitter, David [LA] (introduced 1/10/2007) Cosponsors (1)
Latest Major Action: 1/16/2007 Considered by Senate.

hmm, nothing about bloggers. just sayin...

Re:Another demonstration of the tolerance of the l (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17658500)

Orwell was a socialist, you twit.

Re:Another demonstration of the tolerance of the l (2, Insightful)

blueskies (525815) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658728)

US leftists are aiming to revoke the 1st Amendment

Please back this up with a link, troll. How exactly do you revoke the 1st Amendment?

I thought it was the Supreme Court's job along with Bush's to erode the Bill of Rights? Why would Bush let the Leftists do his job?

Left vs Right? (5, Insightful)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 7 years ago | (#17655684)

Really, do politics boil down to left and right? A single axis of political belief? Don't you think that's a little bit simplistic?

 

Re:Left vs Right? (2, Insightful)

ricree (969643) | more than 7 years ago | (#17655736)

As far as I've seen, it mostly comes down to people who want to be able to tell others what to do, and everyone else. Unfortunately, the government has gotten really full of that first type of people. This whole left and right thing is just a set of labels for the different things that they want to force down our throats.

Re:Left vs Right? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17656088)

Quit asking so many questions or I'll have my protester goon squad trash your Second Life house.

Re:Left vs Right? (2, Interesting)

Ford Prefect (8777) | more than 7 years ago | (#17656366)

Really, do politics boil down to left and right? A single axis of political belief? Don't you think that's a little bit simplistic?

There's always the much-maligned Political Compass [politicalcompass.org] - with not one but two axes to look at. I posted a link to it a long time ago, and was immediately accused of it being slanted towards the left, or even as being a part of this hateful leftist conspiracy various Slashdotters appear so concerned about.

It's an interesting exercise anyway, even if you don't agree with its results.

Re:Left vs Right? (1)

kfg (145172) | more than 7 years ago | (#17657254)

There's always the much-maligned Political Compass - with not one but two axes to look at.

I have, in the past on some other forum, criticised it for not having three axes (as well as for being missaliged by 45 degrees). By only having two it places some individuals who were highly individual in the main sequence. Ghandi comes to mind, who was far more libertarian socially than he was politically.

It's an interesting exercise anyway, even if you don't agree with its results.

Well, I admit I'm not thrilled by sharing a data point with a notorious, deposed theocrat, but at least it got making me an outlier right.

KFG

Re:Left vs Right? (1)

Quiet_Desperation (858215) | more than 7 years ago | (#17656484)

Really, do politics boil down to left and right?

For most people, yes. Politics and ideology are mind cancers. Some day we may find a cure, but not for a very long time. They may be the diseases that lead to human extinction.

Re:Left vs Right? (1)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658146)

Actually I think the electoral system forces people into thinking left-right. When you go to countries with more proportional electoral systems, they don't really have a concept of left-right.
 

Re:Left vs Right? (2, Insightful)

mjwx (966435) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658310)

This is mainly US thinking.

The left/right spectrum is vastly different in other countries such as UK and Australia, Americans in general tend to politicize thing a bit more which is why we Australians are considered to be leftist when we remove politics from most of our day to day life. Gun control isn't considered political by most Aussies.

But in our (Australia's) political system there are left and right elements of varying degree's in both parities, which we call Labour (ALP) and Liberal (Lib) and just to confuse the issue the Liberals are our conservative party (we also have a different meaning to the word Liberal). These two parties are drawn up on the white collar/blue collar line, with Labor supporting the workers (manual labourers and the like) and the Liberals supporting businesses and their workers. Often there is no difference between the parties which leads many to call our system of government a duopoly [wikipedia.org] .

There are Left v Right battles but they are mostly internal to each party and pretty trivial.

Jack Thompson (1)

kahanamoku (470295) | more than 7 years ago | (#17655832)

How long will it be till he makes his judgement on this game? ;-)

That's sort of interesting about the buildings (4, Informative)

MattGWU (86623) | more than 7 years ago | (#17655864)

The FN must have given up and left. You can't 'level the digital buildings'. There's very little, if anything, you can do to other peoples objects in SL, and certainly not on their own land. The landowner or the person in charge of the land group must not have been there, paying attention, or clued in to his own power to disable object rezzing, disable scripts, disable push, disable flight, ban, freeze, eject, etc etc. And that's just the built-in land tools, and not even getting into third-party security systems, which would be more difficult to overwhelm with numbers than a human op (The comparison of an SL parcel owner to an IRC op is apt in terms of power over their domain).

Re:That's sort of interesting about the buildings (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17656168)

I suspect the FN wanted the publicity as much as the protesters.

Re:That's sort of interesting about the buildings (2, Informative)

FishWithAHammer (957772) | more than 7 years ago | (#17656266)

Technically untrue. There are ways to overload someone else's parcel and cause things to de-rez. There are also other ways that I wouldn't talk about because they violate the TOS.

And there's no way to stop someone from dropping on THEIR land and dragging it to yours.

Re:That's sort of interesting about the buildings (1)

MattGWU (86623) | more than 7 years ago | (#17656744)

Yeah, guess I've heard about that happening in such as rental apartment buildings, when somebody rezzes too much stuff and yours disappears.

Stand corrected!

Re:That's sort of interesting about the buildings (1)

FishWithAHammer (957772) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658560)

It's a very fair assumption to make. After all, Linden Labs says that's the case.

It ain't, and I could prove it. There's also a nasty bug that causes a script to TAKE inventory from players without permission, but that one I am surely not letting slip.

Re:That's sort of interesting about the buildings (1)

AndroidCat (229562) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658910)

Were there any munchkins running around chanting "Ding Dong, the Witch is dead"?

Wait One Minute! (1)

walnutmon (988223) | more than 7 years ago | (#17656154)

You can destroy property in second life?

And I always thought that games sucked!

Maybe I was mistaken.

Re:Wait One Minute! (1)

MattGWU (86623) | more than 7 years ago | (#17656214)

Easy there, scout...see my post above yours: You CAN'T destroy property in Secondlife. You can't even kill people in any meaningful sense. Sorry, you're going to have to be a worthless hooligan elsewhere. For your purposes, Secondlife still sucks. It sucks hard.

Do a "FOR THE HORDE" for me, wouldja? Kthnx.

Re:Wait One Minute! (1)

walnutmon (988223) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658040)

The anti-FN activists, who had armed themselves with slogans, placards and weapons, leveled the digital buildings occupied by Front National.

So what was this then? I want to destroy virtual property, expecially if it can cause inconvenience to someone else.

Re:Wait One Minute! (1)

Knara (9377) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658656)

And by someone, you mean furries.

Re:Wait One Minute! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17658860)

Not like anyone other than furries uses second life.

Can you arm yourself with a slogan? (1)

Quiet_Desperation (858215) | more than 7 years ago | (#17656548)

Second Life solved the problem by turning out the lights around the protestors, and they were eaten by grues. ...

Yes, I am horribly old. :(

Re:Can you arm yourself with a slogan? (1)

lazarus (2879) | more than 7 years ago | (#17657308)

"Yes, I am horribly old. :("

Only if you've played adventure on the original punchcards... I doubt the kids on this BBS or whatever newfangled open systems trinket this service is even know what a grue is...

Do you remember hunt the whumpus?

Re:Can you arm yourself with a slogan? (1)

CronoCloud (590650) | more than 7 years ago | (#17657636)

"You must be new here" to not realize that most slashdotters with a 6 digit or lower number know what a grue is. :-)

Re:Can you arm yourself with a slogan? (1)

Quiet_Desperation (858215) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658320)

For a final project in an early programming class, I wrote a 4 dimensional Hunt The Wumpus. It involved time travel. )

Just Wait ... (2, Funny)

twitter (104583) | more than 7 years ago | (#17656574)

... the Vi vrs. Emacs war will make this little show look small.

Re:Just Wait ... (1)

The Real Toad King (981874) | more than 7 years ago | (#17657220)

I'm not sure. I think the big media would favor exploding virtual pigs over nerds writing slightly vulgar messages in newsgroups to each other.

Re:Just Wait ... (1)

CronoCloud (590650) | more than 7 years ago | (#17657684)

Considering that there are 'nix users in SL and a beta Linux client, and Linden Labs open sourced the client, I wouldn't be surprised to see some goodnatured vi vs emacs type stuff in SL.

Curious about this "Second Life" and coverage (2, Interesting)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 7 years ago | (#17656960)

Anyone else noticed quite a big jump in news stories just about the recent year or so about Second Life, despite still having a quite small highly active user base compared to World of Warcraft and the likes? Either it's somehow popular to report on this "unusual" game (personally I find it quite boring, although the stories are fun for laughs), journalists find the game "futuristic" in the sense of what it's doing ("Oooh, look, we found out news about this cool game where you can protest for/against the UN or whatever!"), or there's the tin foil theory with many Second Life gamers submitting story material to news sites, posting it in blogs, etc to generate coverage.

Personally, I don't really see the big deal. Some huge geeks started using a game as a platform for politics debates? What's new, really. People stand out in towns in WoW, Guild Wars, and other games and sometimes get into hot "religion and politics" debates. It's just more of the same, only that due to how Second Life works, they can take a more "practical" stance on it with crappy designed graphics looking like something out of the early nineties to help their cause.

Re:Curious about this "Second Life" and coverage (1)

Knara (9377) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658688)

Yes, and I suspect it's the result of a very good marketing/PR staff at Linden Labs, and not the result of organic excitement in this particular mmo.

Virtualness (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17658564)

Since they're resulting to virtual violence for political purposes, doesn't that make them virtual terrorists/cyberterrorists? We cannot let people do this. We might even have to virtually torture they're avatars for virtual information, before they virtually blow up the virtual bomb in the virtual building and virtually kill innocent virtual people. Think of the virtual children!

Seriously though if we're going to have so many stories on it, let's make Second Slashdot you know , for people that don't have a second life either :)
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