Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Slashback: Net Neutrality, Bugged Coins, and Pawns

kdawson posted more than 7 years ago | from the correction-retraction-and-apology dept.

Slashback 102

Slashback tonight brings some clarifications and updates to previous Slashdot stories, including: anti-Net-neutrality article modified; no bugged Canadian coins; a tech program for women in Silicon Valley; Pirate Bay and Sealand; and Microsoft evangelist apologizes for "pawns" comment. Read on for details.

Network neutrality. MobyDisk writes, "Network Performance Daily retracted last week's interview with Professor Christopher Yoo from Vanderbilt University Law School on his opposition to net-neutrality policies. The new article is a clearer, more subdued interview. The editor, Brian Boyko, says he never received Mr. Yoo's corrections to the article before press time. From the apology: 'The article had done him a disservice and we resolved to repair any inaccuracy or anything that would be unfair to his words or image.'"

Bugged Canadian coins. Lars T. writes in a journal article, "A recent Slashdot story asked: Bugged Canadian Coins?. Now The Globe and Mail has an update on the story — or rather the non-story. '[A] U.S. agency that investigated the complaint found no evidence of any secret transmitters, or of any other tampering. It's not clear why this information failed to find its way into the released U.S. Defense Security Service report.' So you can all pack in your tin-foil hats — at least that's what they want you to believe."

Engineering gender gap. Ellen Spertus writes, "Regarding the recent article The Hidden Engineering Gender Gap: Mills College has a post-baccalaureate program in computer science, which was recently written up in the San Francisco Bay Guardian. The program is co-ed, although the majority of students are female. Graduates of the program have successfully gone on to CS PhD programs and industry jobs."

Pirate Bay and Sealand. Kawahee writes, "Coming off previous coverage here of The Pirate Bay's intentions to purchase Sealand after it was put up for sale, The Pirate Bay has revealed on its website www.buysealand.com that it has entered into negotiations with Sealand. From the post: 'The Government of Sealand has initiated negotiation. Tomorrow, the ACFI and Government of Sealand will sit down in the SMTP chambers of the Internets to discuss the future of the micronation. We welcome the request and hopefully we can settle on a price. But knowing how hard non-kopimistic people can be to negotiate with, we will go with Plan B if they're not willing to meet our demands, press officer of ACFI says.' BuySealand.com is also now sporting a donation meter, and as of the 15th of January it stood at USD $13,714."

MS evangelist apologizes for "pawns" comment. gogat0rs writes "Former Microsoft Tech Evangelist James Plamondon, who made headlines this week when a 1996 speech he gave became public during a Microsoft antitrust trial in Iowa, has apologized to the Microsoft developer community for using a metaphor that described key industry influencers and developers as 'pawns.' Plamondon wrote that calling developers pawns was both offensive and inaccurate. He goes on to say, It mischaracterizes the mutually supportive relationship that must exist between a platform vendor and its platforms early adopters, such as that which Microsoft and independent software developers created in the 1990s. I regret having used the "pawns" metaphor; I apologize for any misplaced ill will it may have caused towards Microsoft; and I won't use it in [the] future.' Since the apology was issued, the full text of the Plamondon speech has been released as a public document on a Comes v. Microsoft website, along with 80 other exhibits."

cancel ×

102 comments

FIRST (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17658574)

also cocks

whew (4, Funny)

macadamia_harold (947445) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658592)

MS evangelist apologizes for "pawns" comment.

I suppose that's better than an MS apologist evangelizing for the "pawns" comment.

Re:whew (3, Interesting)

Alien54 (180860) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658810)

But it accurately reflects what their attitudes was, and likely still is. They view people as pieces in their game. Which is well until people realise what is going on.

Re:whew (5, Insightful)

grasshoppa (657393) | more than 7 years ago | (#17659364)

But it accurately reflects what their attitudes was, and likely still is. They view people as pieces in their game. Which is well until people realise what is going on.

Hate to break it to ya, but that's all business has ever been. MS is just blatant about it, but they are hardly the most blatant. We, as an industry, just find it offensive because on the whole, we are a rather naive bunch.

Re:whew (3, Interesting)

fatphil (181876) | more than 7 years ago | (#17661304)

I don't see how you can say that something that remained publicly unknown for 10 years, and then retracted when it became known, can be described as 'blatant'.

Yes, it's obvious, as it's business. But MS were and are doing their best to try to pretend to be the friendly, helpful, forward-thinking face of the IT world, even if it's a complete fabrication.

Re:whew (1)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | more than 7 years ago | (#17665560)

I don't know if he made the situation even worse, though:

"I regret the use of the term 'pawns'. Pawns suggests they slavishly obey without questioning. In fact, they are often highly intelligent, believing in the cause, and I therefore should have used the more accurate term 'useful idiots'."

Re:whew (2, Insightful)

spun (1352) | more than 7 years ago | (#17665818)

But it accurately reflects what their attitudes was, and likely still is. They view people as pieces in their game. Which is well until people realise what is going on.


Hate to break it to ya, but that's all business has ever been. MS is just blatant about it, but they are hardly the most blatant. We, as an industry, just find it offensive because on the whole, we are a rather naive bunch.


No, we find it offensive because it's actually offensive. The fact that "that's all business has ever been," does not make it okay that this or any other business acts this way. As members of a civil society, we have a duty to uphold civility and decent behavior. When someone or some entity does something offensive, we shouldn't just throw up our hands in surrender, saying, "Well, that's just the way things are. Believing things should be otherwise is just naive." We should speak up.

Sure, no one has any right to not be offended. But no one has a right to be offensive and not hear about it. When any entity treats others like things instead of people, they should expect to be called out for that behavior.

Re:whew (3, Informative)

nmb3000 (741169) | more than 7 years ago | (#17659820)

But it accurately reflects what their attitudes was, and likely still is.

I would hazard a guess that most people won't even read the part of his speech where he compares ISVs (independent software vendors) to pawns.

He wasn't saying the developers are pawns as in "worthless minions to do our evil bidding" or "clueless morons who can't make it without us". It was more of a chess analogy, saying that while each of the individual vendors/developers are not strong by themselves, when you take them as a group they are a very important part of any platform's success. He goes on to say that these developers are a big part of what can make or break you.

Unfortunately the speech is a nasty raster image, so it's a pain to copy/paste, but this excerpt is a good example:

They are very valuable pawns in the struggle however. We cannot succeed without them. If you've ever tried to play chess with only the pieces in the back row, you've experienced losing, OK, because you've got to have those pawns. They're essential. So you can't win without them and you have to take good care of them.

Could he have used a better, less easily misconstrued term? Sure, and it's impossible to really know what he was thinking at the time, but it doesn't appear as evil as Slashdot seems to be trying to make it out to be.

Re:whew (1)

Shaper_pmp (825142) | more than 7 years ago | (#17661230)

See the great-GP post.

I kid, I kid... ;-)

Re:whew (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17661318)

...this excerpt is a good example:

They are very valuable pawns in the struggle however. We cannot succeed without them. If you've ever tried to play chess with only the pieces in the back row, you've experienced losing, OK, because you've got to have those pawns. They're essential. So you can't win without them and you have to take good care of them.


The hell it is. Read what comes next:

You can't let them feel like they're pawns in the struggle. I mean, all through this presentation previously, I talked about how you're using the pawns and how you're going to screw them if they don't do what they [sic] want, and da-da-dah. You can't let them feel like that. If they feel like that you've lost from the beginning. It's like going out with a girl ... what you really want is to have a deep, close and intimate relationship, at least for one night. And, you know, you just can't let her feel like that, because if you do, it ain't going to happen, right. So you have to talk long term and white picket fence and all these other wonderful things or else you're never going to get what you're really looking for. So you can't let them feel like they're pawns, no matter how much they really are.

Nice.

Re:whew (1)

prelelat (201821) | more than 7 years ago | (#17662170)

He was obviously joking, I mean how many developers are going to have a girl friend that they are going to have a one night stand with. The whole thing was just leading up to some punch line of some sort.

Re:whew (1)

fatphil (181876) | more than 7 years ago | (#17661376)

Why didn't he use the term "foot soldiers" instead?
Pawns is such a loaded term he'd have to be completely ignorant to accidentally use it.

Then again, he was a MS evangelist/apologist, so ignorance does come with the territory.

Re:whew (1)

Mr. Underbridge (666784) | more than 7 years ago | (#17662710)

Why didn't he use the term "foot soldiers" instead?

If he did we'd be claiming that MS has a Hitler complex.

Re:whew (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17661522)

> Unfortunately the speech is a nasty raster image, so it's a pain to copy/paste, but this excerpt is a good example:

What do you mean ? On my MacBook, I can copy/paste the text with no problem. I guess there is an image *and* the text in the pdf...

"They are very valuable pawns in the struggle, however. We cannot succeed without
them. If you've ever tried to play chess with only the pieces in the back row, you've
experienced losing, OK, because you've got to have those pawns. They're essential. So
you can't win without them, and you have to take good care of them. You can't let them
feel like they're pawns in the struggle. I mean, all through this presentation previously. I
talked about how you're using the pawns and you're going to screw them if they don't do
what they want, and da-da-dah. You can't let them feel like that. If they feel like that,
you've lost from the beginning. It's like you're going out with a girl; forgive me
___________ it goes the other way also. You're going out with a girl, what you really
want to do is have a deep, close and intimate relationship, at least for one night. And,
you know, you just can't let her feel like that, because if you do, it ain't going to happen,
right. So you have to talk long term and white picket fence and all these other wonderful
things, or else you're never going to get what you're really looking for. So you can't let
them feel like pawns, no matter how much they really are. "

etc, etc.

Hey, get a Mac, dude :-)

Re:whew (1)

Vellmont (569020) | more than 7 years ago | (#17665326)


He wasn't saying the developers are pawns as in "worthless minions to do our evil bidding" or "clueless morons who can't make it without us".

Huh? It's quite clear what he's saying. Essentially he's saying that ISVs aren't partners with Microsoft, but companies that can be strategically set up to either be sacrificed for the greater good of Microsoft. Or maybe just used to gain competitive advantage.

Gee.. why would any ISV be offended at being sacrificed or duped into a certain strategy that only helps Microsoft? I justs can't imagine how this is an offensive comment to those companies.

Of courses, it really should come to no surprise that Microsoft operates like this. Most large companies do the same thing, it's just that Microsoft has been better at it than others.

Could he have used a better, less easily misconstrued term?

Why would he? It was a speech intended to be kept inside Microsoft only. Had this been a public speech you can bet he'd have turned on that "not making them feel like pawns" language. This only was released as part of a lawsuit, otherwise it'd never have reached public eyes.

Re:whew (1)

AJWM (19027) | more than 7 years ago | (#17666778)

But the chess analogy is precisely why it's offensive. Pawns are considered interchangeable, and the first things you sacrifice when it is to your advantage to do so. You put them in a position where they might gain an advantage (and you're happy to take the benefit of that if it happens) but where they're more likely to be squashed (indirectly gaining you advantage somewhere else).

You don't sacrifice them for no reason, but they're the first under the bus when the time comes.

Pieces in a Games (1)

Alien54 (180860) | more than 7 years ago | (#17670072)

unfortunately, the mathematics of game theory I have seen so far does not seem to integrate the range of roles in a game
  • Game maker
  • Game player
  • Game player - low level
  • Game Piece
  • Broken Piece
  • Road Kill
Of course, games are fractal, and there is a range of awareness/education that runs along side of this, going from the Clue Zone to the No Clue Zone

One nice tidbit - when you know you are a piece, you have become a player on some level.

Soldiers are pawns too (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17662958)

It's just a fact. Developers on *both* sides are pawns. Now, MS's army has a lot of soldiers and they are generally well paid. The OSS army doesn't have nearly as many soldiers. They have a few luminaries who make speaking engagements, but that's not representative of what it's like to be in their army. As always, militant socialists can afford to throw resources into a few "shining examples" to cover up the fact that the average participant is, at the very least, considerably less well off. RMS et al don't care about developers. They car about jamming their ideology down our throats, end of story.

Yay! (2, Funny)

numbski (515011) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658594)

All will be well with TBP...until the Ninjas come, and they will come [drmcninja.com] .

Arr mateys.

Re:Yay! (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 7 years ago | (#17663516)

Ninjas are only a match for pirates if they can cut the pirates off from their rum first.

-Eric

slashback, but what about backslash? (0, Offtopic)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658602)

Backslash [slashdot.org] (aka Timothy's Turd) hasn't had a new story in half a year. Why doesn't the BSD [slashdot.org] section get recognition?

Re:slashback, but what about backslash? (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17658994)

Why doesn't the BSD section get recognition?

Netcraft confirms the BSD section on Slashdot is dying.

News just in: (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17658610)

Key industry influencers and developers take out MS evangelist in passing!

Plamondon corrected his "pawns" statement (4, Funny)

Snarfangel (203258) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658624)

...by saying "Actually, more like those little horsies that move in an 'L' shape."

Re:Plamondon corrected his "pawns" statement (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17658646)

What, so you move them all the way to the end of the board, and you don't make them a queen!??

Re:Plamondon corrected his "pawns" statement (1)

ChromeAeonium (1026952) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658720)

By instead refering to them as 'Fuhyo' to make everyone feel better.

Re:Plamondon corrected his "pawns" statement (1)

numbski (515011) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658792)

OMG Ponies!!!!11 [flickr.com]

Sorry man, had to do it. ;) No hard feelings.

13k ? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17658658)


well if the talks fall through at purchasing a whole country they will at least have some consolation in they will have enough to buy a second hand Ford

Net Neutrality? (0)

KUHurdler (584689) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658676)

I've always thought the net should be made more negative...

$13,714? (1, Insightful)

Otter (3800) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658778)

The price tag for Sealand is reported in the $1 billion [usnews.com] range -- a bit steep for a bunch of overgrown w4r3z kiddies, even with $13,714 kicked in by a bunch of undergrown w4r3z kiddies. Particularly since the whole "Sealand" thing is just an elaborate prank in the first place.

Re:$13,714? (1)

shodai (970706) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658834)

w4r3z kiddies = bittorrent users? nice.

Re:$13,714? (1)

qbwiz (87077) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658882)

Consider that it is called the pirate bay.

Re:$13,714? (3, Insightful)

ISurfTooMuch (1010305) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658842)

If I had anything close to Sealand's asking price, why would I want it? With that kind of money, you could probably negotiate with an impoverished country for the sale, including sovereignty, of a small island. I'd rather have a real island instead of an old, burned-out gun platform.

Re:$13,714? (4, Insightful)

batquux (323697) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658926)

Or you could just buy all the movies, music, and software you wanted...

Re:$13,714? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17659164)

It's hard to find an impoverished country that has fat internet pipes.

Re:$13,714? (1)

ISurfTooMuch (1010305) | more than 7 years ago | (#17659322)

That's what the sat link is for. At any rate, you don't need the impoverished country to have fat pipes. If you've got this kind of money to spend, you can afford to bring in an undersea cable and establish your own connection if you need something with lower latency and more bandwidth than a satellite link can offer.

Re:$13,714? (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 7 years ago | (#17660340)

It's hard to find an impoverished country that has fat internet pipes.

Not if you have $1 billion to spend. Spend half of it on your island ($500 million is still above the GDP of a lot of poorer countries), and the other half on your connections. The nation you're investing in is unlikely to object to getting a fast internet connection.

Re:$13,714? (1)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | more than 7 years ago | (#17665802)

Most impoverished countries have dictators, and I guarantee the dictators are living sweet lives with palaces and limos and fat Internet pipes.

Sealand's sovereignty isn't even recognized... (1)

Joce640k (829181) | more than 7 years ago | (#17660138)

Sealand's sovereignty isn't even recognized...the UK government could take/destroy it whenever it felt like it. A decent warship could do the job before breakfast, and they would, as soon as it became anything more than a millionaire's toy.

OTOH there's plenty of islands for sale where nobody will dispute their independence. Win-win.

PS: Would you even bother with this sort of stuff if you had enough money to buy Sealand? I wouldn't, I'd buy my island and spend the rest of my life debauching on it.

Re:Sealand's sovereignty isn't even recognized... (0, Flamebait)

cofaboy (718205) | more than 7 years ago | (#17661596)

A decent warship could do the job before breakfast
Apart from the fact that our dearest Tony B.liar has left us without one that has enough fuel and ordanance to accomplish said mission your probably correct ;)

Re:$13,714? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17664218)

Because Sealand hasn't signed any Conventions re: piracy?

Re:$13,714? (2, Insightful)

thrillseeker (518224) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658892)

The price tag for Sealand is reported in the $1 billion range

They'll probably take an IOU and $20 cold hard cash.

Re:$13,714? (3, Funny)

Guppy06 (410832) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658966)

The price tag for Sealand is reported in the $1 billion range

Appropriately enough, that's in sea-dollars, which are really just Polaroids of Prince Roy with a denomination written on it with a Sharpie.

Re:$13,714? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#17667088)

A single exposure of color polaroid film is about a dollar anyway [amazon.com] . That's 20 exposures for seventeen bucks and change and that doesn't include tax and shipping. Unless you're sure that you can make greater-than-one-dollar denominations, it won't save you anything :)

Now is that ever a silly idea! (4, Insightful)

robbak (775424) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658992)

I do not think that basing any part of their operation in the United Kingdom would improve The Pirate Bay's lot. And, like it or not, HM Fort Roughs is in the United Kingdom, and is probably still property of the Crown. However, it is not (at this time) worth the Governments time to throw them off, especially as they are not doing anything blatently illegal. If ThePirateBay set up on HM Fort Roughs, the bobbys would be all over it like a rash.

Re:Now is that ever a silly idea! (2, Interesting)

spune (715782) | more than 7 years ago | (#17659140)

While this is no doubt what a thorough shake-down would resolve, such a shake-down has not yet occured and Sealand's sovereignty has not been disputed during its decades of existence. Additionally, Sealand claims that certain interactions it has undertaken with other nations constitute de facto international recognition. Until the UK gets pissed and tries to take out the tiny nation, your bold declarations are legally baseless. Remember, at the time of Sealand's proclamation of independence, the British maritime claim did not include the platform.

But while I vouch for Sealand, I'm not willing to put my wallet or freedom on the line in its name.

Re:Now is that ever a silly idea! (3, Insightful)

redcane (604255) | more than 7 years ago | (#17659298)

They would have to overcome their own court precidents to do that. Considering the "bobbys" didn't show up when the German government appealed for intervention to the UK when sealand held some of it's citizens as Prisoners of War, I think they are in OK shape. That is also where the UK courts ruled they had no jurisdiction over sealand.

Re:Now is that ever a silly idea! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17659470)

... sealand held some of it's citizens...
An unwelcome education from Bob [angryflower.com]
 

Re:Now is that ever a silly idea! (1)

Lars T. (470328) | more than 7 years ago | (#17659770)

They would have to overcome their own court precidents to do that. Considering the "bobbys" didn't show up when the German government appealed for intervention to the UK when sealand held some of it's citizens as Prisoners of War, I think they are in OK shape. That is also where the UK courts ruled they had no jurisdiction over sealand.
Funny thing is, he never held any Germans as PoWs. Unless he admits that his "Prime Minister" could never have been a Sealand citizen to begin with.

Re:Now is that ever a silly idea! (1)

dave420 (699308) | more than 7 years ago | (#17661192)

Or just send in the marines. Invade it, problem sorted.

Re:Now is that ever a silly idea! (2, Informative)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 7 years ago | (#17663606)

It's an rusty old anti-aircraft platform. Anyone could destroy it with a nerf gun, for Christ's sake!

The only reason the UK has basically tolerated/ignored them is because, until now, it's just been a small family of crazy squatters living there.

-Eric

Waaay different situation (1)

Slashdot Parent (995749) | more than 7 years ago | (#17680228)

We're not talking about mere POWs here. We're talking about teh pirates! You know, the ones who steal music to fund terrorism?

It TPB buys it, Sealand's toast.

Re:$13,714? (5, Funny)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 7 years ago | (#17659130)

That's enough to pay for a boat rental, some shotguns, and a coup.

Re:$13,714? (1)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 7 years ago | (#17659392)

The price tag for Sealand is reported in the $1 billion range

Sorry [austinpowers.com]

Re:$13,714? (1)

nasor (690345) | more than 7 years ago | (#17668066)

I'm sure even the people who currently "own" Sealand know that they will never get hundreds of millions of dollars for it. If you really want to start your own country and you have hundreds of millions of dollars to throw around, there are much better ways to go about it. There are many tiny island nations that have territorial claims to a lot of small, uninhabited islands. Many of these countries have GDPs in the low tens of millions of dollars. Tuvalu [wikipedia.org] comes immediately to mind, but there are plenty of others. I'm sure you could find a few that would happily sell you sovereignty over one of their small, useless islands if you offered them a few hundred million dollars. This would be better than buying Sealand because:

1)Your new country would be made of actual land.
2)Even if the island that you purchased was only a few dozen acres, it would still be many times larger than Sealand.
3)You will have at least one other established country that will immediately recognize your claim to sovereignty.
4)If you ever have a dispute over the sovereignty of your new nation, you will be arguing with a neighboring country that probably has a population of around ten thousand and no military, rather than the U.K.

Re:$13,714? $1 billion?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17669030)

Actually, you're quoting only the (ridiculous) top of the "range". Other articles quote prices like 65 million pounds (~$127 million US dollars), while other articles say they are "entertaining offers of 8 digits or more". Scrape together the first $10 million and they should jump right on it, considering they haven't really invested *that* much until the recent fire.

While TPB is at it, they should include some servers to resurrect the old Lyrics server from www.lyrics.ch [lyrics.ch] . I sure miss being able to look up those lyrics for 100,000+ songs.

What's that? Google, you say? OK, never mind the lyrics thing.

As the chessic saying goes, (1)

EinZweiDrei (955497) | more than 7 years ago | (#17658786)

'Happiness is a [pissed] pawn'.

Fr1st 1337 post? (1)

dedeman (726830) | more than 7 years ago | (#17659008)

MS evangelist apologizes for "pawns" comment

Hmmmm, 1996, are we sure he didn't mean pwned? I mean, someone had to be an 31337 pioneer.

Re:Fr1st 1337 post? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17681366)

Leetspeak preceded his 1996 comments by years. You just weren't l337 enough to know about it at the time.

2 things about sealand. (1)

MrShaggy (683273) | more than 7 years ago | (#17659166)

First, a bunch of 'real' hackers wouldn't need to come up with the money. They could just havk away, steal the money, give it to sealand, take the deed, steal the money back, and be the better for it.

#2; Wouldn't it be full of Sea-men at this point?> what about the families that live there? Would they be happy sailing with a Jolley-Rodger?? Or would they be allowed to be voted off the boat? Like survivor-cast-away thing?

Re:2 things about sealand. (1)

-Brodalco- (938695) | more than 7 years ago | (#17659644)

The population of Sealand right now is less than 10 at a time-- and those are only employed by the internet company that works there. The royal family left a long time ago.

Oh, my! (1)

symbolset (646467) | more than 7 years ago | (#17659186)

A lot of people are going to read that "pawns" speech and, well, freak out. And he just goes on and on and on. Just when you think it couldn't get any more obnoxious...

I couldn't even read half of it, I was laughing so hard. It's like listening to your drunk brother go on and on about how the wife that just dumped you was a lousy lay anyway.

Definitely going to save this one.

P.A.W.N.S. (Power And Wealth Need Slaves) (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17659448)

P.A.W.N.S.: Great great great punk band. If you can catch 'em live with Ill Gotten Gainz, you should!

Check 'em out: http://www.myspace.com/powerandwealthneedslaves [myspace.com]

MS evangelist apologizes for "pawns" comment


P.A.W.N.S. evangelist and Anonymous Coward apologizes for "P.A.W.N.S." pimpage. But they're really really good.

Too bad about those coins... (1)

SleepyHappyDoc (813919) | more than 7 years ago | (#17659452)

I was kinda happy when I heard the original story...at least, with bugs in them, the Canadian dollar would be good for something.

Unless you have an IQ below ten (1)

dbIII (701233) | more than 7 years ago | (#17659486)

"Tomorrow, the ACFI and Government of Sealand will sit down in the SMTP chambers of the Internets"

Can we please stop using that "Internets" George Bush mistake - it 's so dumb it makes my head hurt. Please just scratch fingernails on blackboards instead.

Re:Unless you have an IQ below ten (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17659646)

"Tomorrow, the ACFI and Government of Sealand will sit down in the SMTP chambers of the Internets"

Can we please stop using that "Internets" George Bush mistake - it 's so dumb it makes my head hurt. Please just scratch fingernails on blackboards instead.

Your wish [youtube.com] is my command.

Re:Unless you have an IQ below ten (1)

Alizarin Erythrosin (457981) | more than 7 years ago | (#17663380)

Can we please stop using that "Internets" George Bush mistake - it 's so dumb it makes my head hurt. Please just scratch fingernails on blackboards instead.
Very well! From now on, it is known as the Intertron!

Or the Interblag [xkcd.com] , whichever you prefer.

Re:Unless you have an IQ below ten (1)

belgar (254293) | more than 7 years ago | (#17663508)

Or, you know, just talk about the tubes instead.

Re:Unless you have an IQ below ten (1)

MarkGriz (520778) | more than 7 years ago | (#17664600)

Can we please stop using that "Internets" George Bush mistake - it 's so dumb it makes my head hurt. Please just scratch fingernails on blackboards instead.

Very well! From now on, it is known as the Intertron!
Or the Interblag, whichever you prefer.

I prefer "intertube" myself.

The 'new' Yoo article (2, Insightful)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 7 years ago | (#17659540)

/. has the wrong link
here's the correct one
http://www.networkperformancedaily.com/2007/01/cla rification_a_case_for_nonne_1.html [networkper...edaily.com]

Here's Yoo's response to comments [networkper...edaily.com] that NPD graciously published to make up for it's original error.

As an aside, IMO, it's poor form to pull the original article & substitute the revised one without explaining what the flawed portions of the original were.

Re:The 'new' Yoo article (2, Informative)

boyko.at.netqos (1024767) | more than 7 years ago | (#17663112)

I'm the editor of Network Performance Daily, and I agree.

But the original article just simply was not fair to Prof. Yoo nor accurate as to what his views were, and although we debated whether or not to leave the original article up, we decided that it was best to our readers to take it down.

However, I left my contact information up, and anyone who wants to e-mail me directly can request the original article so that they can see what was changed. I thought this was the most optimal solution to the problem.

So far, no one has. If you wish to see it, you can e-mail me at brian.boyko at netqos dot com.

-- Brian Boyko
-- Editor, Network Performance Daily

Bugged Canadian Coins (1)

kawabago (551139) | more than 7 years ago | (#17659690)

Is that why they always say "Batteries not included." when they hand you your change?

From http://www.dss.mil/dss_coin_announce.htm (1)

kenjay (543752) | more than 7 years ago | (#17659744)

I'm not willing to pay to see the linked Canadian coins article. After a brief Google, this is the announcement (I don't see any rush by the mass media to report the "correction"): A statement in the 2006 Defense Security Service Technology Collection Trends in the U.S. Defense Industry report which claimed radio frequency transmitters were discovered embedded in Canadian coins is not true, according to DSS officials. This statement was based on a report provided to DSS. The allegations, however, were found later to be unsubstantiated following an investigation into the matter. According to DSS officials, the 2006 annual report should not have contained this information. The acting director of the DSS directed an internal review of the circumstances leading up to the publication of this information to prevent incidents like this from reoccurring. The 2006 DSS Technology Collection Trends in the U.S. Defense Industry report was published by DSS in June 2006. As part of its oversight responsibilities under the National Industrial Security Program, the DSS receives reports from U.S. cleared defense industry to enhance overall security awareness in cleared industry.

Bugged Coins (1)

SeaFox (739806) | more than 7 years ago | (#17659778)

It's not clear why this information failed to find its way into the released U.S. Defense Security Service report.' So you can all pack in your tin-foil hats --

Wouldn't that be tin-foil trousers?

Re:Bugged Coins (1)

Short Circuit (52384) | more than 7 years ago | (#17662038)

That could result in serious bodily injury, if they ripped.

Re:Bugged Coins (1)

plopez (54068) | more than 7 years ago | (#17663658)

Considering where most men do most of their thinking, I would say that it is appropriate... :)

Besides the "pawns" comments... (4, Interesting)

jesterzog (189797) | more than 7 years ago | (#17659846)

...the speech is full of really interesting comments. I've only just skimmed it for now, and there are several highlights for me. eg. Page 26:

But nonetheless, I mean, Windows 95 programming for Mac developers on the conference agenda at the Macworld Expo--I mean, you couldn't pay enough to get that. And all it cost me was some free software, and her husband had had a stroke and I sent her some articles about recent therapy and research in strokes, went to the library and looked it up. I had a problem with that one. I mean, that one was...you know, I care about her as a person, I've known her for years, you know, I was truly sorry that her husband had a strokel my grandmother died of a stroke. I was kind of interested in the topic. I went to the library anyway, I found this information. I was about to fax it to her, and I said, 'Wait a minute. This is, like, totally scummy. I know I'm doing this for a purpose!'"

Page 27:

"I've killed at least two Mac conferences. First there was hte Mac App Developers Conference. I was on hte Board of Directors of the Mac App Developers Association long ago, and after I left I worked to try to turn it into a cross-platform developers conference, and I did. I managed to make it...their last conference was very cross-platform, both Windows and Macintosh, which of course turned off their Macintosh audience; half of the conference was irrelevant to them. They didn't care about Windows. They were a bunch of Mac guys. Which diluted the value of the conference. And they didn't know how to advertise the Windows guys when the Windows guys showed up. So they lost money that year and the group folded. Oh well. One less channel of communication that Apple can use to reach its developers."

Here's the funniest bit from page 32:

"Don't look like you're trying to snooker them or something, and don't sound arrogant. Microsoft people have this...It is going to be presumed that you're an arrogant asshole until you prove otherwise. So be nice and polite on email."

Page 37:

Technical support. Well, you know, tech support costs money, but you can fudge a little on it. What I do is I promise people enhanced technical support, which means that they go through the normal technical support channels, and if PSS doesn't satisfy their need, then they send me the email thread of the service request, and then I'll send it around through the channels and say, hey, PSS, why didn't you solve this problem? The key thing there is that they have to send me the email thread of the service request, which means that PSS actually has to screw up for them to send this to me. They have to go through PSS first. PSS is very good, and so it doesn't usually happen. So I almost never have to deal with this, but it sounds great. Ooh, if you have a problem with PSS, escalate it to me. Cool.

Re:Besides the "pawns" comments... (4, Interesting)

SaleNowOn (846913) | more than 7 years ago | (#17662280)

"the speech is full of really interesting comments"

Wow, That speech is just out there, really absorbing reading. Inside the mind of an Evangelist....its a frightening place.

You read the article, then read the retraction and you realise his retraction and apology from a personal point of view would mean nothing to him, absolutely nothing at all. It would just be the best strategy to initially limit the damage and then work out the next move.

Favourite Question is on page 26

Different Speaker: I go back to my former question. How do you sleep at night ?

Not necessarily Sealand (1)

dysfunct (940221) | more than 7 years ago | (#17660060)

People on various forums suspect that an island would be the way to go. "Only" thing left to do is convince a country to allow them sovereignty, raise the necessary funds and find out how to operate a server farm on a small island without power or water supply as well as lack of Internet connection...

From this wiki: [piratebayagency.com]

Having recently abandoned its plans for acquiring Sealand, the FreeNation community, along with ThePirateBay.org, the world's largest torrent tracker, is looking to purchase an as-yet-undetermined small island, to eventually become a sovereign nation. The most likely candidate at the moment is Ile de Caille of Grenada. This new country would not employ any intellectual property laws, such as copyrights or trademarks. The official site is located at FreeNationFoundation.org.

What the hell is wrong with pirate bay? (1)

kitsunewarlock (971818) | more than 7 years ago | (#17660096)

First the pirate party crap and now this? Sorry to sound like a troll, but sealand is *not* a legal country. A bunch of guys took over a defunct military installation...then a wealthier man strongarmed them out of the installation and delcared it was his since it was more than 3 miles off the coast. Well newsflash bates...that only applies to LAND. Sealand is *not* land. It is more of a permanently anchored boat than it is land. A boat belonging to the United Kingdom. The country isn't even recognized by anyone, and if piratebay.com took it over and started running servers, they'd just be targetted by British authorities that much faster! (Bates was semi-untouchable on a "we don't give a shit" kind of basis.) With the amount of money Pirate Bay is making per-month and now with these stupid donations, they could just go out and buy whatever movies and CDs they want to torrent. Sorry to sound harsh...piratebay just killed my d20 e-book dream is all. 1,000,000 downloads and not enough sales to pay back the artists. -_-' I'm not in it for the money, but I don't want to spend money doing it. -_-''

Re:What the hell is wrong with pirate bay? (1)

akohler (997911) | more than 7 years ago | (#17660604)

The fact that Britain abandoned the island now known as Sealand made it, under Internitional Maritime Law [un.org] . Although Sealand is not officially recognized by any State, there have been many instances of de facto recognition, including in British Court, meaning that technically, it is a legal country, at least until someone successfully challenges it.

Re:What the hell is wrong with pirate bay? (1)

nomadic (141991) | more than 7 years ago | (#17663256)

It's a structure, not an island.

Re:What the hell is wrong with pirate bay? (1)

akohler (997911) | more than 7 years ago | (#17672170)

That's true. Thank you for correcting me. I should have stated "artificial island i.e. man-made structure. According to Un Convention on the Law of the Sea [wikipedia.org] , artificial islands cannot be nations. However, as Sealand claimed sovereignty prior to 1982, this is not a valid point for disputing its sovereignty.

Re:What the hell is wrong with pirate bay? (1)

nomadic (141991) | more than 7 years ago | (#17673002)

The Law of the Sea, like most international law, isn't hard, fast, and binding, but is an attempt to establish certain norms. As for claiming sovereignty, I believe the consensus is they a) never really had the right to claim it, and b) have not been sufficiently recognized to give them any sort of legitimacy. The more I learn about Sealand the less I'm impressed with their claims. The guy who founded it sounds like a delusional, violent thug, and an ambiguous ruling in English courts does not a sovereign nation make.

Re:What the hell is wrong with pirate bay? (1)

akohler (997911) | more than 7 years ago | (#17673474)

I would agree with most of that, but according to modern political theory [wikipedia.org] , recognition by other Sates is not necessarily a criteria for sovereignty (although I imagine it helps). As for claiming it, 1. It appears the British government abandoned claim to and it was outside their territory limit at the time, 2. Many nations have been founded in places that someone else had already claimed or was already occupying, including both Britain, and later, the U.S.A. - hence, in practicality, if you take it, use it, and defend it, it is yours by right of fact. Regardless of whether the ruler seems like a whack-job. How many recognized political leaders are also thugs?

Re:What the hell is wrong with pirate bay? (1)

nomadic (141991) | more than 7 years ago | (#17674508)

I'm not really sure they abandoned it. And I'm a little suspicious about how permanent that population really is, considering most people wouldn't want to live in a porch suspended above the ocean.

yuo faIl it (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17660520)

fellow traveelers? Diseases. The

I thank You for you8 time (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17660832)

Kopimistic? (1)

manekineko2 (1052430) | more than 7 years ago | (#17663064)

Maybe I'm really showing the fact that I'm not a member of the "in-group" but could someone please share with me what the word kopimistic means?

Re:Kopimistic? (1)

karldane2020 (898985) | more than 7 years ago | (#17666266)

God knows what Sealand thinks this means, but a quick google search [google.co.uk] reveals that all references to 'Kopimistic' are Sealand-related stories. Dictionary.com [reference.com] certainly doesn't have a clue. Making up words is a fabulous way of raising the somewhat dubious credibility of Sealand! Someone, please prove me wrong...

Re:Kopimistic? (1)

yo303 (558777) | more than 7 years ago | (#17687796)

Making up words hoping to get them into common usage is actually VERY kopimistic.

yo.

Not buuged my foot (1)

plopez (54068) | more than 7 years ago | (#17663776)

THat's what the Canadian Secret Service wants you to believe.

Re:Not buuged my foot (1)

disckitty (681847) | more than 7 years ago | (#17664926)

If you want to go for an alternative conspiracy theory, you could say that the Canadian secret service yelled at their equivalents in the American secret service, and threatened to release an equally damaging piece of information that they (the Canadians) are aware of within the American intelligence. At which point, the American secret service retracted their previous claim.

It is odd, perhaps, that along with limiting communication, most intelligence agencies, in general, don't publickly rat out their equivalents in other nations.

Mills College link broken!!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17664204)

The link to Mills college is broken. (My wife went there, and loved it, although she majored in American History, not CS.)

Why Buy? (1)

maroberts (15852) | more than 7 years ago | (#17665588)

Surely there are enough Pirates in Pirate Bay to raise the Jolly Roger over Sealand!

Revising history? (1)

noidentity (188756) | more than 7 years ago | (#17667276)

Network Performance Daily retracted last week's interview with Professor Christopher Yoo from Vanderbilt University Law School on his opposition to net-neutrality policies. The new article is a clearer, more subdued interview.

What the hell? I RBFA and the second was totally different. Like the "pawns" comment from Microsoft, I think I see a pattern:

  1. Write what you believe
  2. Wait for criticism
  3. Claim original was grossly incorrect
  4. Write new article that says whatever will please readers, and delete original
  5. Profit!!!

Evidence of bugged coins (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17667536)

Turk: Five bucks if you eat this penny
Janitor: Done and done
Turk: Let's see if it works
*beep* *beep*
JD: My friend, we have just lowjacked the janitor!
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...