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Pluto Probe Snaps Jupiter Pictures

CowboyNeal posted more than 7 years ago | from the eye-in-the-sky dept.

NASA 133

sighted writes "The New Horizons probe, on its way to Pluto and beyond, is now speeding toward Jupiter. Today the team released some of the early data and pictures, which are the first close-range shots of the giant planet since the robotic Cassini spacecraft passed that way in 2001."

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133 comments

This just in... (4, Funny)

muindaur (925372) | more than 7 years ago | (#17678838)

Nasa has discovered Jupiters gas was produced by CowboyNeal.

MOD PARENT UP! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17679502)

Oh wait... It already is +5 funny... Must be all that gas getting to me

Re:This just in... (1)

Thuktun (221615) | more than 7 years ago | (#17682704)

Like the Planet Express ship, I notice the New Horizons spacecraft has a carbonated logic unit dubbed PEPSSI. [jhuapl.edu]

How long does this take? (1)

XxtraLarGe (551297) | more than 7 years ago | (#17678842)

Does anybody know how long does it take for the photo data to be transmitted from that far away (Both Jupiter and Pluto)? Hours or days? I am still pretty amazed that we can send a probe into space and receive pictures from Jupiter.

Re:How long does this take? (5, Informative)

rumith (983060) | more than 7 years ago | (#17678864)

10 hours from Pluto in average. 45 minutes from Jupiter in average. Don't know whether they'll in their aphelion or perihelion now, so can't say more precisely.

well this is where they are (5, Informative)

rucs_hack (784150) | more than 7 years ago | (#17678980)

their exact position today can be found in the JPL Horizons database
http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons.cgi [nasa.gov]

so using Sol as Origin [0,0,0], with distance in km and km/s velocity measures:
XYZ position and velocity in Km and Km/sec
V prefix = velocity,

Jupiter
A.D. 2007-Jan-19 00:00:00.0000 (CT)
  X =-3.523007925524937E+08 Y =-7.203651223053448E+08 Z = 1.087397270750013E+07
  VX= 1.158611696091788E+01 VY=-5.127849980674650E+00 VZ=-2.378734986696975E-01

Earth
  A.D. 2007-Jan-19 00:00:00.0000 (CT)
  X =-7.005151113800500E+07 Y = 1.294518808525130E+08 Z =-1.647040773451328E+03
  VX=-2.669513206382950E+01 VY=-1.429493892074527E+01 VZ=-5.052885705412180E-04

And the Horizons probe itself is here:
A.D. 2007-Jan-19 00:00:00.0000 (CT)
  X =-3.141011231236297E+08 Y =-6.673772181265557E+08 Z = 9.200702373118341E+06
  VX= 1.154291925552546E-01 VY=-1.978644188955009E+01 VZ= 1.493924692614632E-01

However it's too early to work out the times taken for signals to travel based on these positions. I need more coffee.

Re:well this is where they are (5, Informative)

KiloByte (825081) | more than 7 years ago | (#17679064)

Pythagoras' theorem says the distance in R3 (ie, euclidean space) is sqrt((x1-x2)^2+(y1-y2)^2+(z1-z2)^2).
That is, the distance between Earth and Jupiter right now is: 8.95528824E8 km.

Dividing that by c gives 2987 seconds. So, right now the half-ping is 50 minutes.

By similar calculation, you can get that EarthNew Horizons is 2779.975 s =~ 46 minutes.

Re:well this is where they are (3, Interesting)

beckerist (985855) | more than 7 years ago | (#17681136)

A cool slight diversion: this is exactly the reverse process of how Ole Roemer [wikipedia.org] in the 1670's came up with his estimate of the speed of light.

Re:well this is where they are (1)

beckerist (985855) | more than 7 years ago | (#17681278)

Except, of course, for the fact that it was Io used as a point of reference instead of the probe... But hey, a satellite is a satellite! :-)

Re:well this is where they are (1)

cyclomedia (882859) | more than 7 years ago | (#17679408)

does anyone else here think it seems a bit odd to print a number with 16 decimal places then stick an E+08 at the end, why not just an 8 digit number with 8 decimal places?

i do actually know the TECHNICAL answer: one digit, followed by a bunch of decimal places followed by an exponent is standard scientific notation. Still looks bizzarro to me though

Re:well this is where they are (1)

rucs_hack (784150) | more than 7 years ago | (#17679518)

I frequently include all values after the decimal place up to the first zero. That seems to help precision. If you cut the number down and remove non zero values, it can really hurt accuracy.

It definatelly helps when it comes to Phobos and Deimos, they are a pain to get right.

Re:well this is where they are (1)

mdwh2 (535323) | more than 7 years ago | (#17680166)

does anyone else here think it seems a bit odd to print a number with 16 decimal places then stick an E+08 at the end, why not just an 8 digit number with 8 decimal places?

It means you can see at a glance how big it is, without having to count the digits.

I'm more curious that they think they can measure Jupiter's position to a fraction of a millimetre, or the velocities to a fraction of a nanometre per second...

Re:well this is where they are (1)

SavvyPlayer (774432) | more than 7 years ago | (#17680422)

I'm more curious that they think they can measure Jupiter's position to a fraction of a millimetre, or the velocities to a fraction of a nanometre per second...
These accuracies result from the mathematics. Why toss out digits simply because we can't be absolutely certain to the fraction of a millimeter/nanosecond of any given celestial object? It costs nothing to keep them and they allow the numbers to be independently verified.

Re:well this is where they are (1)

SavvyPlayer (774432) | more than 7 years ago | (#17680494)

millimeter/nanosecond of any given celestial object
...millimeter/nanosecond of the position of any given celestial object...

Cranky

Re:well this is where they are (3, Funny)

geobeck (924637) | more than 7 years ago | (#17681712)

does anyone else here think it seems a bit odd to print a number with 16 decimal places then stick an E+08 at the end...

I just think the 16 decimal places are kind of overkill because, by the time you write them down, everything after the fifth or sixth one has changed because the objects are moving relative to each other.

Re:well this is where they are (2, Informative)

AvyTech (942143) | more than 7 years ago | (#17680182)

I just got grrly wood. Yay for me.

Re:well this is where they are (1)

pappas.chris (1049134) | more than 7 years ago | (#17680480)

pics or it didn't happen :D

LOL couldn't resist

(oh and btw the captcha for this post just happens to be "immature"... go figure!!!)

Re:well this is where they are (1)

AvyTech (942143) | more than 7 years ago | (#17681980)

And there I thought my maturity level was through the roof with all that tickly action. In all seriousness, though, That calculation just blew up part of my brain. Not that I was using that particular area, but still.

Re:How long does this take? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17678928)

It doesn't matter how long it takes - I'm curious as to how long it takes for the ever intelligent Richard C Hoagland to report that Nasa is covering up an ancient civilization on Jupiter. The fact that it's now a gas giant is proof that they've left us a message not to eat so many beans. Give that man another Angstrom medal.

Re:How long does this take? (2, Informative)

Bucko (15043) | more than 7 years ago | (#17678930)

The New Horizons Site [jhuapl.edu] keeps track of the spacecraft position and distance. According to the last mission update, the light travel time is now over 1h 30m.

Re:How long does this take? (2, Informative)

duh P3rf3ss3r (967183) | more than 7 years ago | (#17679690)

According to the last mission update, the light travel time is now over 1h 30m.
I have no idea where you got that. From the page you sent us to, the distance to the spacecraft is currently 5.57AU. Dividing that by c gives 2779.46 s or 46.32 minutes. Perhaps it's written somewhere on that site that the round trip light time is just over an hour nd a half. But that's not at all the same thing.

Re:How long does this take? (5, Informative)

Tom Womack (8005) | more than 7 years ago | (#17679054)

http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/science/data_collection.ht ml [jhuapl.edu] says that the transmission is at 38kbit/second from Jupiter, and will be at around 450bit/second from Pluto.

Cassini runs at 82kbit/second from Saturn, but it's a probe with a larger power budget.

The imager takes one-megapixel, 16bpp images, and compresses them to 100kbyte files for initial transmission, saving the originals in a few gigabytes of onboard flash; it can be instructed to send back uncompressed images if there's something interesting visible.

So an image takes about 20 seconds to transmit, plus about six minutes if you want the uncompressed version; and it takes 45 minutes to get to Earth from Jupiter. From Pluto, the images will take half an hour for the preview and twelve hours for the uncompressed image.

Re:How long does this take? (5, Funny)

gsslay (807818) | more than 7 years ago | (#17680264)

Unfortunately it then zips the compressed image into a self-extracting exe, so NASA's anti-virus strips it off at the mail server.

Re:How long does this take? (1)

Hoi Polloi (522990) | more than 7 years ago | (#17680930)

Unfortunately high speed cable internet connections are not available beyond the orbit of Jupiter.

Re:How long does this take? (1)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 7 years ago | (#17683290)

Does anybody know how long does it take for the photo data to be transmitted from that far away (Both Jupiter and Pluto)? Hours or days?

Note that many of the images will be stored onboard and sent after the main encounters are done. This is because it uses up time and fuel to aim the probe back and forth between antenna alignment with earth and science instruments.

To cut costs, New Horizons rotates the whole probe to aim instruments instead of having movable instruments (unlike Voyagers, which had movable platforms). But this means that it cannot do science and broadcast directly to earth at the same time. To get around this, they've loaded up on memory so that images and data can be sent back *after* the main encounter is finished. Some estimates are that it would take 3 months after the Pluto encounter to send back all the data (due to both volume and distance).

The drawback of this is that if the probe has a problem during the encounter, then most info will not get a chance to be sent back. For example, some speculate that Pluto has a faint ring. If the probe smashes into a big ring particle during the encounter, it won't get a chance to send back most of its data.

Because of such risk, they plan to send smaller samples of the data and a few highly-compressed images back just before the primary encounter. That way we at least get some basic info even if there is a dissaster.
       

Re:How long does this take? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17683918)

it cannot do science and [talk] to earth at the same time.

Sounds like my ex
       

Communication a problem (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17678900)

I'm glad to see some of Nasa's deep space work getting publicity; most people seem to just focus on stuff like the ISS which has been a disaster from start to finish, when there is much succesful work being done at the outer reaches of the solar system.

One of the main problems, however, is communication at these distances is extremley problomatic; it takes 8 minutes to send a signal as far as mars and 4 years to send one to Alpha Centuri, which Voyager 1 is predicted to reach in later 2009. here in the lab, however, we are working on some technology that should help alleviate this problem.

The solution relies on one of the properties of gravitons. Now as you keen physicists will be aware, the four forces (electromagnetism, gravity, strong, weak) are all caused by force carrying particles. For the electromagnetic force, for example the force carrying particle is the photon; particles under the influence of the electromagnetic force will emit and absorb photons thus changing their momentum and energy. Gravity uses the same mechanism and we call the force carrying particle the graviton.

Now gravity is different from the other forces in that it can be felt over long distances, a quality that tells us a great deal about the nature of gravitons. If 2 particles are 10 light minutes from each other, then any change in the gravity of one particle will not be felt by the other for 10 minutes. The traditional explanation for this is that the graviton can only travel at the speed of light and as such will take 10 minutes to travel from one particle to the other, so far so good. Unfortunately the situation breaks down if one of the particles is moving. As it won't be in the same position in 10 minutes time, the graviton should miss it and no gravity should be felt. As we know, however, gravity is always felt by moving bodies so the graviton must intercept the moving particle in order for the force to be expressed. By conventional theory the graviton must 'know' where the particle will be in ten minutes time.

Now perhaps that doesn't seem unreasonable but if you move the particles 10 light years apart then things get a bit more tenuous. As the graviton would take 10 years to travel the distance, this means that the particles must 'know' where each other are going to be in 10 years time. This is quite frankly ridiculous!

The explanation is in fact that the gravitons do not move at the speed of light but instead are exchanged instantaneously with their effects not being felt until a time equal to the distance between the 2 particles divided by the speed of light. In this way the rule limiting the exchange of information is kept intact and the rules of physics remain unchanged. We can however use this quality to solve our problem of communicating with deep space probes. Think of it as follows.

Here in the lab we have a massive ball which emits a large number of gravitons. As previously mentioned these gravitons will instantly arrive at our deep space probe regardless of how distant it actually is, but will not act on it until some time later. The key part is that we have a graviton detector on our probe which measures the number of gravitons received. By changing the mass of the ball (simple enough to do with a powerful laser) we can cause the number of gravitons detected by the probe to fluctuate and thus transmit a signal. As gravitons travel instantaneously the signal travels instantaneously and we have faster than light communication. Although the system is never going to carry gigabits (changing the mass of the ball is difficult to do on a picosecond time interval) it should be enough to perform simple operations such as steering the probe or powering on systems, thus revolutionising space travel.

-- physicsExpert

Re:Communication a problem (2, Informative)

AndyST (910890) | more than 7 years ago | (#17678942)

> it takes 8 minutes to send a signal as far as mars and 4 years to send one to Alpha Centuri, which Voyager 1 is predicted to reach in later 2009 Voyager I has a speed of about 17 km/s. At that speed it takes 114440 years to fly the 4,4ly to Alpha Centauri.

Re:Communication a problem (1)

khallow (566160) | more than 7 years ago | (#17680538)

I calculate around 77,000 years (given 17 km/s which understates Voyager 1's speed). 17 km/s is faster than 1/20,000th the speed of light. So Voyager 1 travels one light year in under 20,000 years.

Parent is pure drivel (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17678960)

... as you suspected.

Re:Communication a problem (-1, Offtopic)

Captain Hook (923766) | more than 7 years ago | (#17678964)

it takes 8 minutes to send a signal as far as mars and 4 years to send one to Alpha Centuri, which Voyager 1 is predicted to reach in later 2009. here in the lab, however, we are working on some technology that should help alleviate this problem.
I can't work out what you are trying to say here, it reads as if you are expecting Voyager 1 to reach Alpha Centuri around 2009 which I'm sure you don't believe. Alpha Centuri is 13000AU away and Voyager 1 is moving at about 3.5 AU per year, is moving in the wrong direction and only has enough fuel to last until 2020ish.

Re:Communication a problem (1)

$RANDOMLUSER (804576) | more than 7 years ago | (#17678998)

> ...only has enough fuel to last until 2020ish

Momentum is forever. I think you're talking about "battery life".

Re:Communication a problem (3, Funny)

Captain Hook (923766) | more than 7 years ago | (#17679084)

I was thinking in terms of thrusters to be able to align the probe towards earth/anything interesting that might be out there such as a Vogon Construction Fleet.

Re:Communication a problem (2, Funny)

Jzor (982679) | more than 7 years ago | (#17679252)

It will be ok if it runs out of thruster power. I'm sure it will run into some sentient mechanical life forms out there that will repair it so it can continue on its mission to learn all that is learnable and transmit it back to the creator.

Mod Parent Troll/Off topic Please!! (-1, Offtopic)

simm1701 (835424) | more than 7 years ago | (#17678982)

Would anyone with mod points please mod parent as troll, offtopic or if generous perhaps funny.

As the other replies have pointed out he is spouting nonsense (voyager may leave our solar system 2009, but its a a few tens or thousands of years away from any other and I think its pretty unlikely its vector will take it to Alpha Centauri - I'll be honest I haven't checked)

I'll admit its plausable sounding nonsense, but as barnum said....

Misinformative (2, Informative)

Cheesey (70139) | more than 7 years ago | (#17678990)

As I understand it, the speed of light applies not only to physical objects, but also information itself. No-one knows any way to move information faster than light. If you've found a way, that's truly revolutionary, but in the meantime your post sounds a bit like a "free energy" claim. Can you back it up with some citations?

Re:Misinformative (1)

AndersOSU (873247) | more than 7 years ago | (#17679858)

Your right, the speed of information is limited to c, because as far as we know all information requires a carrier - and, as far as we know, the fastest carrier is light. As I understand it sending information at speeds greater than the speed of light would violate causality.

Imagine that there is a bomb in LA that just went off. Jack Bauer finds a way to make his PDA use quantum entanglement to tell this to Washington before they would be able to detect the event any other way. If some horrendous female actor, err, computer analyst found a way to disarm the bomb before Washington would receive a signal traveling at c from LA and transmit the data back it could get there before either the bomb went off or Jack sent the first message.

Of course if the bomb never went off Jack would have never sent the first message, and the universe would implode. But it would probably get good ratings - so all is well.

Someone please correct any injustices I've just done to physics.

Re:Misinformative (1)

FallOfDay (1053148) | more than 7 years ago | (#17679986)

C+ would only violate causality if it changed an aspect of known history. Unknown/unviewed history is still in a superposition, therefore can be altered so long as it doesn't affect what we already know! :D

Re:Communication a problem (2, Informative)

Ihlosi (895663) | more than 7 years ago | (#17678996)

4 years to send one to Alpha Centuri, which Voyager 1 is predicted to reach in later 2009.



Whoa, I didn't know that these things made 0.1c ...


Wait ... they don't. I think you meant "in later 12009".

Re:Communication a problem (4, Informative)

Teancum (67324) | more than 7 years ago | (#17680284)

I think he has mistaken the idea that Voyager will leave the solar system in 2009, as defined by the region of space where the solar wind is overcome with other stellar matter from the rest of the Milky Way, and presumably in the region of space roughly where the Oort Cloud is likly to be located at. At that point you could presumably suggest that it is in interstellar space and the gravitational influence of the Sun is insignificant compared to other objects in the rest of the Galaxy.

While that is in reality a major accomplishment in terms of having a human artifact leave the solar system, it is a far cry from being able to reach another star system, especially Alpha Centauri. Especially as Alpha Centauri is hardly in the plane of the ecliptic (where most of the planets are located at), requiring some very precise trajectory calculations that would have made the visit to the outer planets by Voyager too difficult to perform.

The primary mission of Voyager was to visit the gas giants of the Solar System, and it did that spectacularly. Anything else it has done or is doing now is incidental extra science, as we are now getting scientific measurements of the environment that is very far from the Earth.

Re:Communication a problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17679024)

If I recall my particle physics correctly, the way ATLAS at the LHC will be detecting gravitons is via their leptopic decay products, and regard that as the optimal way. Is your approach anything like this - if so, how would that be separable from the Interstellar medium at *any* distance by this "graviton detector"?

I'd like what you're saying to be true, but I'm having a hard time beliving it.

Re:Communication a problem (2, Informative)

physicsnick (1031656) | more than 7 years ago | (#17679088)

If I recall my particle physics correctly, the way ATLAS at the LHC will be detecting gravitons is via their leptopic decay products, and regard that as the optimal way.

You're thinking of the Higgs boson. We are nowhere near approaching the level of technology required to detect gravitons, and the mathematics they give rise to doesn't even work. The only real reason we have to believe they exist is because the other forces also have quantized mediators.

Gravitons (-1, Offtopic)

rumith (983060) | more than 7 years ago | (#17679276)

By the way, do you know any good papers that try to extend the SM into gravity without using the concept of graviton? I.e. is there a model which attempts to describe gravitational effects not as an interaction of its own kind, but rather as some correction coefficient to the strong and electroweak interactions? Thank you.

Re:Communication a problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17683384)

I can detect gravitons! I use a patented technique known as "letting something go".

Of course, this detector can be fooled by rotation and acceleration, but it works well most of the time.

+2 Interesting!? Mod Parent Down (5, Informative)

physicsnick (1031656) | more than 7 years ago | (#17679030)

it takes 8 minutes to send a signal as far as mars and 4 years to send one to Alpha Centuri, which Voyager 1 is predicted to reach in later 2009.

Voyager 1 will take on the order of several hundred thousand years to reach Alpha Centauri.

The traditional explanation for this is that the graviton can only travel at the speed of light and as such will take 10 minutes to travel from one particle to the other, so far so good.

The 'traditional' explanation? Gravitons are hypothetical at best, and currently mathematically useless. Quantized force mediators do not need to "intercept" a moving particle at a distance; they are virtual, and there are infinitely many of them in all directions.

By changing the mass of the ball (simple enough to do with a powerful laser)

This is all nonsense. Even if this were true, your probe is also receiving gravitons from every other atom in the universe. The effect of varying a "ball of mass" would not even be measurable. Just because a sizable block of text with "sciency words" is posted doesn't mean it's meaningful, and certainly doesn't deserve mod points. Please mod parent down, and please read things before giving points!

Re:+2 Interesting!? Mod Parent Down (1)

Joohn (310344) | more than 7 years ago | (#17679346)

So what are you guys saying, is he dead wrong? Does gravitation in fact move in the speed of light and is it thus theoretically impossible to construct an "instant" communication device using gravitation? I'm just curious and find this more interesting than the obvious errors in his post.

Re:+2 Interesting!? Mod Parent Down (1)

Cyberax (705495) | more than 7 years ago | (#17680048)

Yes, gravitation moves at the speed of light. That's why you get gravitomagnetic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitoelectromagnet ism) which occur when two moving bodies gravitationally interact with each other.

Re:+2 Interesting!? Mod Parent Down (1)

khallow (566160) | more than 7 years ago | (#17680600)

It hasn't been directly observed. Experiment has strong agreement with general relativity which implies that gravitation acts at the speed of light.

Re:+2 Interesting!? Mod Parent Down (2, Informative)

Cyberax (705495) | more than 7 years ago | (#17681210)

It has been measured, see http://www.arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0501001 [arxiv.org] . The result of this measurement - speed of gravity is between 0.8c and 1.2c, which is consistent with gravity propagating at 1c.

Re:+2 Interesting!? Mod Parent Down (1)

khallow (566160) | more than 7 years ago | (#17681316)

You quote the study that questioned the original measurement. Apparently, the relativistic model in question was improperly used by the wouldbe measurers.

Re:+2 Interesting!? Mod Parent Down (1)

Cyberax (705495) | more than 7 years ago | (#17681570)

Sorry, I could not find the link on the original study. In any case, indirect observations (like perihelion precession of Mercury) also confirm that gravity moves at about 1c.

Re:+2 Interesting!? Mod Parent Down (1)

khallow (566160) | more than 7 years ago | (#17681828)

Those measurements confirm general relativity, which as I point out, requires that gravity interacts at the speed of light. While my statements no doubt confirm the rumors that I revel in pedantry, I still must point out that no direct observation has confirmed that gravitation acts at the speed of light. I imagine this will change in the next decade or two, but until then, I'm smugly sitting back.

Also, it's pretty cool how we can cite directly online the papers in question (or at least papers that refer to the paper in question). Definitely turning out to be a Brave New World here.

Re:+2 Interesting!? Mod Parent Down (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17682018)

gravitons travel 100x spped of light

Er one thing (1)

KKlaus (1012919) | more than 7 years ago | (#17679954)

Good post, and its always nice to see someone who has real science's back, but as far as I know in no theory of gravitons are there an infinite amount in all directions, unless of course we take the universe to be infinite, in which case there is an infinite amount of everything in all directions (assuming no strange emergence of uniformity that we are unaware of). Anyhow, like I said, way to torture to death someone that knows less than you :D.

From Wiki, and I know I've read similar on NASA... (1)

silentounce (1004459) | more than 7 years ago | (#17680026)

but I couldn't find it.
 
"Voyager 1 is not heading towards any particular star, but in 40,000 years it will be within 1.7 light years of the star AC+793888 in the Camelopardis constellation."
 
From http://www.daviddarling.info/ [daviddarling.info] :
"An earlier planned route past Neptune would have resulted in the probe coming within 0.8 light-years of Sirius in just under 500,000 years from now - easily the closest and most interesting foreseeable stellar encounter of the four escaping probes. However, the Neptune flyby trajectory actually chosen (the "polar crown" trajectory) means that the nearest Voyager 2 will come to any star in the next million years is 1.65 light-years when it passes Ross 248 in about 40,000 years."
 
From that quote it looks like it was originally planned to fly by a star. The same site has this to say about Voyager 1: "Thereafter, it will have a journey lasting almost 40,000 years before it passes the M4 red dwarf AC +79 3888 at the remote distance of 1.64 light-years (0.50 parsec)."

Re:From Wiki, and I know I've read similar on NASA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17680666)

-- No matter how many times you shake it, the last few drops are going in your pants.

One of the more useful things I have learned from Slashdot is that this is not actually true. Reach behind your nuts and press up and forward (you'll feel the base of your urethra under the skin). After that, one more squeeze and it's really all empty.

Re:+2 Interesting!? Mod Parent Down (1)

khallow (566160) | more than 7 years ago | (#17680466)

I glanced at Voyager 1's speed. It's going roughly 17 km/s. That's a bit more than 1/20,000th the speed of light. So it can travel as far as Alpha Centauri currently is in under 100,000 years. A lightyear is long, but not that long when you start talking of hundreds of thousands of years in which to do your traveling. I don't have anything redeeming to say about the grandparent.

Re:+2 Interesting!? Mod Parent Down (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17681472)

How else are we supposed to get subspace communications up if we don't play with massive balls and lasers? I miss Thor.

Bullshit (1)

rumith (983060) | more than 7 years ago | (#17679074)

And the signature is physicsExpert?! Man, he has NO understanding of particle physics, and his post is completely misguiding.

Re:Communication a problem (2, Funny)

yoprst (944706) | more than 7 years ago | (#17679160)

The explanation is in fact that the gravitons do not move at the speed of light but instead are exchanged instantaneously
/bangs his head against a wall for 30 minutes...
Let's strip you of your academic credentials along with a dude who proposed stripping of academic credentials from global warming sceptics
/returns to banging his head against a wall for another 30 minutes...

Re:Communication a problem (1, Funny)

tgd (2822) | more than 7 years ago | (#17679466)

Somehow I suspect the extent of his scientific credentials is a copy of the Starfleet Technical Manual with pages that are strangely stuck together, and a tattered Burger King hat hung from a nail in his parents' basement.

Another dismissal for erroneous points (2, Interesting)

FallOfDay (1053148) | more than 7 years ago | (#17679654)

...this means that the particles must 'know' where each other are going to be in 10 years time. This is quite frankly ridiculous!

You're still thinking in three spatial dimensions plus one of time. Start adding extra dimensions to Einstein's 4D & things aren't so ridiculous - extra dimensions will discount, not time itself but, the effect of time. Why do you think 10D & 11D Superstring/M theories have been postulated?

In this way the rule limiting the exchange of information is kept intact and the rules of physics remain unchanged.

Only in Euclidean space. In quantised spacetime, the data is there instantaneously & exchangeable. Any data that isn't exchanged until via Euclidean space is in a superposition, until viewed, and is available for exchange in methods not reliant on Euclidean space.

Re:Communication a problem (1)

khallow (566160) | more than 7 years ago | (#17680758)

As previously mentioned these gravitons will instantly arrive at our deep space probe regardless of how distant it actually is, but will not act on it until some time later. The key part is that we have a graviton detector on our probe which measures the number of gravitons received.

You can stop now. Interacting with a graviton detector is an "action". Ie, if we use your model of interaction, the gravitons show up "immediately" and then interact with the graviton detector some time later. BTW, "immediate" is poorly defined. If an object is a light year away, then from a year into the past to a year into the future could be concurrent with our time. There's no obvious hypersurface of constant time in the presence of gravity and acceleration.

2009? (1)

HangingChad (677530) | more than 7 years ago | (#17681220)

t takes 8 minutes to send a signal as far as mars and 4 years to send one to Alpha Centuri, which Voyager 1 is predicted to reach in later 2009.

If Voyager 1 is covering a million miles a day, that means an AU roughly every 90 days, a little less than 4 AU's a year. Being over 277,000 AU's to Alpha Centauri you'd be looking at close to 80,000 years. I'm too lazy to pull out a calculator and run the exact numbers.

Unless you physics experts invented some way to bend the time/space continuum or you've got a prototype for a working warp drive in your car, that trip will take a bit beyond 2009.

What a waste (0, Flamebait)

Big Hammer (958658) | more than 7 years ago | (#17678902)

Just another big waste of money. We should be spending the money on actually going there. Not Pluto or Jupiter specifically but anywhere out there, starting with the moon.

We've spent billions over the past 40 years looking for a stinking microbe (alive or dead) on any rock they can find, give me a break, we could've had a moon base by now.

Re:What a waste (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17679746)

We should be spending the money on actually going there.

NO! This money should go to fattening up the poor so when they suffer from their obesity we can cure that as well!

Clinton/Reno 2008!

Re:What a waste (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17681672)

We've spent billions over the past 40 years looking for a stinking microbe


And all we found was that Martian microbe that smells like daffodils.

Did anyone remember to tell the probe... (4, Funny)

simm1701 (835424) | more than 7 years ago | (#17678908)

.. that pluto isn't a planet any more???

I certainly hope so, otherwise it could get really embarrassed when it tries to ask for directions!!

you FaVil It? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17679116)

empire in decline, task. Research has brought upon Spot when done For GAY NIGGERS FROM That supports A8ybody's guess NIGGER ASSOCIATION fanatic known see... The number GNAA (GAY NIGGER www.anti-slash.org Disgust, or been code.' Don't this post up. forwards we must fucking market to the crowd in Are looking very users of NetBSD something cool We'll be able to Distended. All I For all practical of the warring they want you to officers. Others Clearly become members' creative to them...then survival prospects can no longer be demise. You don't endless conflict I won't bore you serves to reinforce were compounded goodbye...she had The future of the suffering *BSD just yet, but I'm for a living got FreeBSD at about 80 about 700 users bulk of the FreeBSD When I stood for of the old going Do, or indeed what

Forget... (1)

ilovegeorgebush (923173) | more than 7 years ago | (#17679130)

A year already?! I remember the launch, but why is it so easy to forget these awesome achievements. Some, perhaps, take for granted what it takes to get something so fragile as 'New Horizons' to get into space...Very impressive picture too. What an age we live in!

heh (2, Funny)

Moby Cock (771358) | more than 7 years ago | (#17679370)

Pluto Probe Snaps Jupiter Pictures

Doctor Manhatten Outraged!

Re:heh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17680174)

From JPL's "Basics of Space Flight"http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/basics/bsf1-1.html [nasa.gov] :

Most planets rotate in or near the plane in which they orbit the Sun, again because they formed, rotating, out of the same dust ring. The exception, Uranus, must have suffered a whopping collision that set it rotating on its side.

*snicker*

probe (1, Funny)

hachete (473378) | more than 7 years ago | (#17679998)

when does it get to probe Uranus?

Thankyou, thankyou. I'll be here all week. Try the chopped liver.

Re:probe (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17682170)

>>> Thankyou, thankyou. I'll be here all week

Then I'm so glad it's Friday.

That's Nothing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17680002)

Wait till you see the probe on Uranus.

Mix Up ? (1)

gungh0 (1005895) | more than 7 years ago | (#17680116)

So it was sent out to take Pluto pictures & they get Jupiter photos back ? I used to get that problem when I sent my films away to be developed, always getting back snaps of people I didn't take ! If your a fat sunbather in red trunks, I've probably got your photos. ;-)

As a matter of scale... (1)

argStyopa (232550) | more than 7 years ago | (#17680302)

Just to give you a sense of scale for Jupiter, the Earth would fit nicely into the Great Red Spot (N/S dims of red spot are almost exactly the same as the diameter of Earth).

Re:As a matter of scale... (1)

BlackSnake112 (912158) | more than 7 years ago | (#17681304)

Jupiter's diet must be working. I was always told that three earths side by side could fit into the big red spot. n/s one, but three side by side.

Just an Opinion... (3, Interesting)

Thumper_SVX (239525) | more than 7 years ago | (#17681012)

I'm really excited about New Horizons. It's a really exciting mission that almost didn't get the support it needed. If you do some Googling you can find out the full story about it.

Hell, I know Pluto isn't considered a planet... but that to me makes NH even more exciting. Pluto is a large KBO (Kuiper Belt Object) and as such has the potential to be a very early remnant of the formation of our solar system. As such, investigating this object and Charon, it's "moon" has the potential to teach us far more about the early existence of the solar system than investigating many other objects. To be honest, I'm MORE excited about a trip to a relatively unknown and uncharted object such as a KBO than I would be over the exploration of another planet (despite the fact that these are arbitrary designations at best)

The NEAR mission was fascinating for the same reason. It was investigation of a relatively unknown object and we learned far more about the nature of asteroids and other deep space objects during that mission than we ever thought possible. If NH even returns half of the information about Pluto that NEAR returned about the asteroid Eros then we will learn an incredible amount about our solar system, and maybe change a few models about solar system formation that might just change some minds.

Good show, NASA. Sometimes you're the butt of a lot of jokes, but there are times you manage some truly remarkable missions (the mars rovers for one) that increase our understanding of the universe and just really excite science geeks like me :)

Wha??? (4, Funny)

Cervantes (612861) | more than 7 years ago | (#17681646)

"Pluto Probe Snaps Jupiter Pictures"

Holy crap, they made another metric/imperial conversion error!

Here's NASA's Reaction: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17683762)

Today the team released some of the early data and pictures, which are the first close-range shots of the giant planet since the robotic Cassini spacecraft passed that way in 2001.
"Yep. Still looks exactly the same. Ho Hum."
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