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Sony and Universal Prohibit Sharing Via Zune

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the as-if-the-zune-didn't-have-enough-trouble-already dept.

Microsoft 325

ack154 writes "Engadget has a story about Sony and Universal Music apparently denying Zune owners the ability to 'squirt' songs by certain artists to other Zune users. That's right, if you've actually purchased songs from the Zune marketplace and happen to run into another Zune owner, you're prohibited from sharing certain songs. From the article: 'In a non-scientific sampling of popular artists by Zunerama and Zune Thoughts, it looks like it's roughly 40-50 percent of artists that fall under this prohibited banner, and the worst news is that there's no warning that a song might be unsharable until you actually try to send it and fail.'"

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All Access Squirt Passes (4, Funny)

DannyO152 (544940) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691490)

would have cost $2 per unit for Universal, I gather.

So... (5, Insightful)

b0lt (729408) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691492)

So basically, the Zune is even more useless?
Why even bother including a transmission service if it isn't just limited to be barely useful, but not have it work at all for half of the songs you can legitimately get?

Re:So... (2, Interesting)

Teresita (982888) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691782)

You can't wi-fi RIAA songs to each other, but if someone ever hacks the Zune, they'll sit there and infect each other, especially if everyone is close together at the stadium or something.

Re:So... (5, Funny)

arekusu (159916) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692264)

It's pretty useful as a source of jokes.

I mean, how many other logos [bdmonkeys.net] can you make look like a cat-butt?

What's that sound? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17691494)

A resounding "FUCK!" from all of those who have bought MSFT stock hoping that Zune will catch on.

Re:What's that sound? (5, Funny)

chill (34294) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691702)

Yeah, both of 'em.

Take the statistic with a grain of salt. (4, Funny)

twitter (104583) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691850)

Yeah, both of 'em.

The chances of them meeting are far lower than the 40-50% chance of their "squirt" failing. Yet another unverifiable, speculative statistic.

Re:What's that sound? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17691990)

"FUCK!"

Yes, that's "zijun" in Hebrew. Now you see the *real* reason for the product's name.

Re:What's that sound? (1)

Keeper (56691) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692244)

But everyone else who bought in when it was in the $21 range last year is probably pretty happy with the 50% return on their investment right now...

The one place Apple gets it right. (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17691502)

Every song is treated identical, whether it's idie or big label crap it's all exactly the same.

Re:The one place Apple gets it right. (0)

russ1337 (938915) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691704)

>>> Every song is treated identical, whether it's idie or big label crap it's all exactly the same

Not according to this link. [gizmodo.com] . It seems the thing recognizes what its allowed to share and what it's not.

Re:The one place Apple gets it right. (1)

russ1337 (938915) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691730)

----> Ah, sorry, thought you were talking about the Zune still... didnt read your title with the Apple reference.. Sry.

How do you want to be abused today? (5, Funny)

Futurepower(R) (558542) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691504)

A lot of people think that Microsoft is an abusive software company. However, the facts seem to fit the theory that Microsoft is an abuse company that sells software.

--
U.S. government violence has stopped the centuries-long violence in Iraq and created a peaceful democracy. NOT!

Re:How do you want to be abused today? (4, Insightful)

MSFanBoi2 (930319) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691606)

So lemme get this right, Sony and other music companies that force Microsoft do implement DRM.. but Microsoft is still at fault?

Its not as if Microsoft has a choice in this matter.

Re:How do you want to be abused today? (4, Insightful)

iluvcapra (782887) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691774)

If Microsoft can't make the application work as advertised or disclosed, they should offer a different set of features.

This is the best evidence yet that this whole "squirting" business was invented by an uninformed marketing department, that wasn't aware of the real-world limitations Microsoft's partners were going to place on the system.

For example, I'm sure someone would love to sell a radio that shows album art, but if doing so requires an internet connection for the radio, and regular updates of radio schedules from a web service, and rights negotiations, and on, and on, and on, the someone might want to consider selling something that would actually work, as opposed to something that's got bullet points up the wazoo but doesn't.

It isn't MS's fault the music is restricted, any more than it's Apple's in their case, but Microsoft's implementation within its restrictions is broken, and not going to win it converts in the MP3 market. Given, of course, that they're really serious about taking a share of the MP3 player market, or if all this isn't some twisted "tactical" maneuver to "position" some "platform" for some reason known but to Chair-Man.

Re:How do you want to be abused today? (5, Insightful)

RalphBNumbers (655475) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691892)

It isn't MS's fault the music is restricted, any more than it's Apple's in their case

I'd argue that it *is* Microsoft's fault to some degree. I can't think of any major technology company that's been going in for DRM as heavily as they have been. Even Sony was happy with a mere root kit for their DRM, and backed off when enough people complained; whereas in Vista MS has added not one but two levels of access *beyond* the formerly root-equivalent Administrator level to support their DRM schemes, and requires specialized hardware support right down to the silicon for HD content's DRM.

Microsoft has tremendous influence in the market, they could have done a lot to keep things relatively sane if they tailored their systems to the needs of their customers rather than the media industry. And, with just a little marketing savvy, they could have made a mint doing it as well, as Apple's phenomenal success with kinder gentler and more consistent DRM schemes has shown.

The media companies may be pushing this bullshit too hard to stop entirely, but the tech companies owe it to their shareholders as much as their customers to push back for solutions that are, if not entirely and ideally free, at least *usable*.

Re:How do you want to be abused today? (3, Insightful)

Keeper (56691) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692222)

Tell me, what kind of leverage does Microsoft have to negotiate terms here? The people providing the content lose nothing if they exclude their music from Microsoft's service.

The options are:
1) put in the stupid DRM features and get a license to sell the specified content
2) don't put in the stupid DRM features, and watch as people continue to buy iPods because of the diverse selection of music available in the iTunes store
3) don't sell a device at all

Re:How do you want to be abused today? (5, Interesting)

norminator (784674) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691920)

Its not as if Microsoft has a choice in this matter.

At the very least they could label songs that are restricted. At the very least. The fact that they don't label them as such, and now people can't share the songs as advertised is pretty bad. Of course, the record companies are just plain brain-dead to think they should restrict free advertisements of their music. From what I understand, the whole sharing process is designed to encourage users to buy the songs they borrow, once their limited-use period runs out.

Morons. All of them.

Re:How do you want to be abused today? (5, Insightful)

Teresita (982888) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691974)

Well, if the marketplace decrees that Zune is doomed, I suppose the next logical step is for Microsoft and dia-RIAA to lobby the Donks in Congress to outlaw all non-crippled portable hardware, maybe titling the bill the Music Players With Disabilities Act.

Re:How do you want to be abused today? (2, Interesting)

Geof (153857) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691998)

Sony and other music companies that force Microsoft do implement DRM . . . Its not as if Microsoft has a choice in this matter.

Sony and the other music companies haven't forced Microsoft to implement anything. Microsoft could have chosen to manufacture an MP3 player and set up a music store selling MP3s from more enlightened companies and artists. They could have created their own niche in the market and targeted those not well-served by Apple's lock-in model, while also selling music playable on iPod, the dominant player. Maybe it's a long shot. But then, going head-to-head with iPod looks like quite the long shot anyway. Forced? Microsoft's a big boy; I'm sure it can take responsibility for its actions.

Re:How do you want to be abused today? (2, Insightful)

iroll (717924) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692198)

Um, iTunes tracks are in no way as crippled as Zune tracks.

It is Microsoft's own fault that they, one of the most powerful companies on earth, have bent over double-ass-backwards for the music corps. It's like they don't even TRY to negotiate--they do the most favorable thing the music corps can come up with, and hope that those good graces will somehow propel them forward.

Apple went to the table and hammered out a deal. Initiative wins the day over being a lickspittle. Fault: Microsoft.

Re:How do you want to be abused today? (0)

Karl Cocknozzle (514413) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691736)

Microsoft is an abuse company that sells software.

Wait just a moment sir! I came in here for an argument!

Re:How do you want to be abused today? (2, Funny)

GoodbyeBlueSky1 (176887) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691858)

Aha! No you want Room 12A, next door.

Re:How do you want to be abused today? (1)

kfg (145172) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691812)

Microsoft is an abuse company that sells software.

The joke is that this is not a joke.

KFG

Surprised? (4, Interesting)

Gemini_25_RB (997440) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691506)

I'm not. Saw this one coming when they announced the song sharing thing. I had hoped, however, that the giant music conglomerations would grow up and let it go through. Zune shared music can only be played a few times, so what's the harm in a little advertising?

Re:Surprised? (4, Insightful)

NormalVisual (565491) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691670)

I don't get it either, but it's certainly not surprising to see the music industry completely fail to apply common sense and go out of their way to shoot themselves in the foot yet again.

On the other hand, I'm reasonably sure this move is going to end up costing Sony and Universal money, so there's that to be happy about.

Re:Surprised? (1)

Technician (215283) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692144)

I had hoped, however, that the giant music conglomerations would grow up and let it go through.

I more expected the industry to simply withold the content so the Zune would have very little music to offer. It would be like the Beatles who simply refuse to permit distribution in any format except physical albums in either LP or Compact Cassette.

It would have been funny if the Zune marketplace had very little content and then the remainder of providers pulled out simply due to too small a marketshare.

Re:Surprised? (1)

Teresita (982888) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692234)

"It would have been funny if the Zune marketplace had very little content and then the remainder of providers pulled out simply due to too small a marketshare."

Two years from now that Goodwill thrift store a hop and skip away from Microsoft where I get all my software is gonna have more $4.99 Zunes than they had Jar Jar Binks action figures in 1999. They'll stick 'em over by the 8-tracks.

Re:Surprised? (2, Insightful)

Mr Pippin (659094) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692188)

Maybe the artists in question are only worth listening to a few times.

Re:Surprised? (1)

ISurfTooMuch (1010305) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692282)

If Zune sharing is advertising, then why would the music companies want that? After all, since most of what they put out these days is shit, they'd rather you buy it sight unseen, as it were. If people could hear it once or twice, they'd be done listening to it and have no desire to spend money on it.

What next? (5, Interesting)

Draconix (653959) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691508)

Earbuds/headphones that automatically mute when someone other than their owner tries to listen to music with them?

Re:What next? (5, Interesting)

iluvcapra (782887) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691672)

Earphones that measure your skin conductance while listening to songs, and then auto-rate the song based on your pleasure response. On the back end an E-bid style site allows music producers to buy the marketing data.

Microsoft: What do you want to think today?

Re:What next? (5, Funny)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692040)

auto-rate the song based on your pleasure response. On the back end an E-bid style site allows music producers to buy the marketing data.

No, you pay up front for the enjoyment rating of the song. If your enjoyment goes beyond what you have paid for they bill you again.

Re:What next? (2, Funny)

Mex (191941) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691794)

Shhh! Don't give them any ideas!

Re:What next? (2, Funny)

vought (160908) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691886)

Earbuds/headphones that automatically mute when someone other than their owner tries to listen to music with them?


We're working on this. All the user has to do is re-enter their Zune Marketplace PIN when the earphones sense a temperature swing. This will-reenable playback.

Here at Microsoft, we're really excited about the new features we can leverage our technology to bring to you.

-Steve Ballmer, Robbie Bach, and the Rest of the "Don't get it Gang", Working for You, The User.

Remember boys and girls (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17691514)

It is not fair use if giant corporations think they can sell you a second license specifically for that use. You just got zuned!

Re:Remember boys and girls (1)

OECD (639690) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692268)

You just got zuned!

I smell a meme...

Heh. (5, Interesting)

SatanicPuppy (611928) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691524)

Microsoft: Haha jackasses! The Xbox 360 is outselling the hell out of your overpriced console and there is nothing you can do about it!

Sony: O Rly? Squirt this bizitches.

Ahhh, the mysterious world of corporate interaction.

Re:Heh. (1)

Cheapy (809643) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691940)

One slight difference: Xbox360 is selling.

The Zune is not. Far more damage is being done to Sony than the other way around.

Like this matters (4, Funny)

RichPowers (998637) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691528)

It'd be a miracle if two strangers with Zunes were ever in the same area so they could "squirt" songs together. Man, that sounds wrong.

Re:Like this matters (1)

chris(pinecone) (1037932) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691588)

Hey, anyone want to meet in the park to squirt each other pictures of our families?

Re:Like this matters (5, Funny)

davecarlotub (835831) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691756)

Hey, anyone want to meet in the park to squirt each other pictures of our families?

I heard somewhere that George Michael was recently spotted squirting his songs to various passersby at a rest stop in New Jersey.

Re:Like this matters (1)

value_added (719364) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691696)

Man, that sounds wrong.

Even more wrong if you speak a language where "squirt" typically means exactly what you think it means.

I'll predict that if Microsoft markets the zune internationally, the advertising campaign will fail even more badly.

Re:Like this matters (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17691720)

The term "squirt" was actually used long before Zune by wireless and satellite engineers. Sending a bit of data wirelessly to a satellite was termed "squirting". It did not come from MS marketing and nobody at MS really likes it either.


There, in order to simulate telephones, researchers had figured out how to digitize speech, squirt it into the computer, then turn the bits back into sound waves afterwards. [harmony-central.com]

You only have so much radio capability (power for transmitters, sensitivity for receivers). You can cover the whole area in every direction from the airplane, or you can squirt it all in one direction. [seqair.com]

Squirt the bird: To transmit a signal to a satellite. [dangerouslogic.com]

Re:Like this matters (1)

sir99 (517110) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691912)

Squirting a satellite sounds like a superhuman feat. Squirting a "handheld device" sounds, umm, less impressive.

Re:Like this matters (2, Informative)

alshithead (981606) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691942)

What's really funny is that "squirt" has been used in multiple sci-fi's to ACTUALLY transmit data. I'm sure Heinlein used it and I'm also just as sure I've seen it used by other authors.

I can think of worse things (5, Insightful)

ThanatosMinor (1046978) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691540)

So 40-50% of randomly-selected songs by two major labels can't be shared between Zunes. How much do you want to bet that the songs that can't be shared are top 40 hits and everyone already has them anyway? As long as people can still share indie labels and underground artists, then they can still expand their horizons by listening to songs their friends have and like. Personally, I just prefer a large LAN with everyone sharing their thousands of MP3s.

Re:I can think of worse things (4, Insightful)

falcon5768 (629591) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691760)

So 40-50% of randomly-selected songs by two major labels can't be shared between Zunes. How much do you want to bet that the songs that can't be shared are top 40 hits and everyone already has them anyway?
Your right, but the kicker is the fact that people who bought a Zune paid a Universal Music tax on them (Microsoft gave money to Universal for using their music on the Zune, with Universal threatening to try to pull the same shit on Apple and others) only to have Universal deny them the ability to USE the songs as the device is designed to use them AFTER paying that tax. As if the 3 play and dead deal wasnt enough, they are blocking you from even doing THAT on some songs. At that point why dont they just chain you up and throw you in maximum "pound me in the ass" prison while they're at it.

Basically Universal stole your money pulled down your pants and tripped you on the Zune. Regardless of them being top 40 hits or not, Universal really fucked over their customers.

Not to just pick on them though, supposedly its every label that has a bunch of songs you cant transfer.

Microsoft won't even follow it's own legalese anym (2, Interesting)

Avillia (871800) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691552)

Zune terms of service:

==========
14. Content Usage Rules
All music you purchase or acquire on a subscription basis from the Zune Marketplace is subject to this agreement and any other applicable terms and conditions, including limitations imposed by the use of digital rights management (DRM) technology. Content may be used for personal, non-commercial use only.

14.1 Purchased Content Usage Rules. You are authorized to use the content that you purchased from the Zune Marketplace on up to five (5) total authorized computers.

You are entitled to burn purchased content, and playlists containing purchased content, to CD solely for personal, non-commercial use. There is no limit to the number of times you can burn an individual song; however, you may only burn the exact same playlist a maximum of seven (7) times.
==========

Microsoft won't even follow it's own legalese anymore. That's good to know. Well, hey, good news is, there are shitball lawyers out there that aren't on Microsoft's payroll, perhaps one will bless us with a class-action filing...

Re:Microsoft won't even follow it's own legalese a (3, Informative)

erostratus (72103) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691706)

Which part of the license agreement do you feel Microsoft is violating?

Section 14 deals with DRM and essentially says you're bound to whatever restrictions Microsoft imposes.

Section 14.1 does not discuss sharing songs from Zune to Zune but rather limits how many of your personal computers can play the songs.

The last section explains how you can burn the purchased music.

Where's the violation?

Re:Microsoft won't even follow it's own legalese a (1)

slashbob22 (918040) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691948)

All music you purchase or acquire on a subscription basis from the Zune Marketplace is subject to this agreement and any other applicable terms and conditions, including limitations imposed by the use of digital rights management (DRM) technology
I think GP is referring to the fact that the music is subject to "any other applicable terms and conditions". It's not that MS is violating anything, they just pass the buck onto the music Industry to make up rules - hence the new "squirt" rule.

Not really a problem (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17691556)

if you've actually purchased songs from the Zune marketplace and happen to run into another Zune owner...

Given the near astronomical odds of actually finding another Zune owner within a 20-mile radius that you'd want to share your music with, I think this problem is pretty much moot.

Wha huh? (0)

antirelic (1030688) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691560)

Ok. So... lemme see if I get this properly. Lets say... Napster, instead of Microsoft, made this product. And lets say that Napster expected every music manufacturer to provide some sort of arbitrary identifier to make music "non transferable"... how soon do you think Napster would be burried in a sea of litigation? Now, does this not seem like something that "enables pirating by design"? Isnt that what Napster got smacked with? "Enabling and encouraging people to pirate" while making money off of the "medium" by advertising. Substitute "advertising revenue" with "product sales revenue" and I fail to see the difference. Well, that and they arent a multi-billion dollar corporation that not only wipes its ass with anti-monopoly legislation and court rulings, but forces those same governments to eat that shit covered toilet paper by "passing the costs" right back to them... the consumer... the government... lolcakez....

Apple bends the RIAA over, the RIAA bends MS over (5, Insightful)

rolfwind (528248) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691564)

I remember reading about Steve Jobs complaining about the RIAA and the prices they want to charge (while he tried to keep it at $0.99 per song, regardless of song) and the RIAA complaining back that iTunes was too powerful and whatnot and was steamrolling them.

Now Microsoft was fairly nice to the RIAA and even paid them a royalty per MP3 player and now the Zune's most vaunted feature, their crippled wireless, can't even be utilized correctly. If the Zune had any steam amoung any geek circles (not that I think it did), this will surely kill it because it had few other advantages. It seems the RIAA and its member companies have royally screwed Microsoft.

I guess this shows how business truly gets conducted and how the RIAA should be dealt with when it is whining.

A present to Microsoft:
http://allaboutfrogs.org/stories/scorpion.html [allaboutfrogs.org]

Re:Apple bends the RIAA over, the RIAA bends MS ov (2, Insightful)

ePhil_One (634771) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691750)

Now Microsoft was fairly nice to the RIAA and even paid them a royalty per MP3 player and now the Zune's most vaunted feature, their crippled wireless, can't even be utilized correctly.

Universal is trying to psyche itself up to standing up to Steve Jobs and iTunes by demanding a cut of every iPod, I suspect this was part of the reason MS rolled over for Universal in the first place, 1% of every iPod is a fortune, 1% of every Zune is a pitance. When ever pressed, they stop short of saying they will pull their music from iTunes, I think they are well aware of the bottom line impact NOT being on iTunes would have, the ready to buy iPod owner will happily plunk down $.99 for a non-Universal artist that IS available, then blame the Artist for shunning them; killer recipie for popularity.

Compare that to the risk of not being available to Zune owners, or rather potential Zune owners who check store selection before buying a player. MS didn't do this out of the kindness of their hearts, the did it out of a desperate need to be competitive, the fact that it might hurt the other guy more than it hurt them is a footnote.

Well planned product offering.... (1)

zappepcs (820751) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691566)

Haven't we learned, don't pay for it till after sp2 or later.

Is the HAHA tag applicable here?

Fine with me. (3, Funny)

inode_buddha (576844) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691628)

Fine with me. I'm still trying to scrub my brain out after picturing Ballmer squirting. *shrug*

Hahahahahahaha (-1, Redundant)

SengirV (203400) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691642)

BWahahahahahaha

*Deep breath*

BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaa

That's the "feature" we were all waiting for. (1)

JudgeFurious (455868) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691654)

Real "iPod Killer" you got there Mr. Ballmer. I'm sure it's only a matter of time before the sales start to take off.

  Seriously though I just don't understand how something can come to a market like this with a major selling point like this crippled the way it is. This is a perfect example of the difference between Apple's approach to the iPod and the way pretty much everybody else has gone at it. If the recording labels had tried to limit a similar feature in the iPod this way it would have likely been a deal breaker or the feature itself would have been dropped.

Re:That's the "feature" we were all waiting for. (0, Flamebait)

vought (160908) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691918)

I think this puts the lie to the Zune blogwhores who have been insisting that Microsoft would uncripple Zune's 802.11 functionality for music purchases, etc.

Next up: News.com runs articles about how crappy this news is for Apple.

One more reason to use AllofMP3.com (3, Insightful)

popo (107611) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691656)

I've said it 1000 times but I'll say it again:

I haven't paid for music in almost 10 years... until this year: I've spent almost $700 on AllOfMP3.com

And all the evidence points to the fact that I'm not alone. AllOfMP3.com is making millions.

Illegal? Yes. Sure, whatever. So is Limewire. And there's no potential for revenue generation there.

Say what you will about AllOfMP3.com but there's a profound lesson there that the labels and the RIAA should learn from:
They're getting people who don't spend money on music to spend money. That's huge.

When the "real, de-facto" option for consumers is free vs. DRM crippled -- they should be rejoicing the fact that
there is, in fact a middle ground: DRM-free, high-quality music (not 128bit crap) at a price that
makes sense given the lack of shipping, manufacturing and retail overhead.

I still contend that if the labels embraced the pricepoint and the formula they'd be making multiples over
what they're making now.

The problem isn't piracy. The problem ultimately is greed.

Their business model is hilariously weak, and instead of adjusting to market forces like all other industries
must do -- they're attempting to ram it down the throats of consumers.

Good luck boys.

Re:One more reason to use AllofMP3.com (4, Informative)

idonthack (883680) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692018)

You look like the perfect person to answer my question.

Why pay for music from allofmp3? It's (sort of) legal, but the artists still don't receive anything. Which means it's like buying from the RIAA, only cheaper. Which means it's like p2p, only more expensive.

Downloading from allofmp3 is about as "moral" as just straight downloading. What's the point in paying for it?

I'm not the OP, but... (3, Insightful)

moosehooey (953907) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692194)

I think it's convience. It's worth a few cents to have a known-good, high-quality, easily downloadable song picked from a large selection. (Note that I don't use AllOfMP3, mainly because I just never got around to it)...

Re:I'm not the OP, but... (1)

LearnToSpell (694184) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692274)

You mean like Usenet?

Re:One more reason to use AllofMP3.com (2, Insightful)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692090)

I really don't think AoM is even close to a middle ground because music production costs money. I really don't think the AoM prices even begin to cover those expenses. You vastly overestimate the cost of replication, shipping and retail overhead. There's a lot more to the cost of making those bits than AoM's pricing structure can possibly sustain.

If you don't like the RIAA, that's fine, but the solution is to support indie music, not ripping off RIAA music through AoM or Limewire because that's still reinforcing the RIAA claim that RIAA music has value. Buying indie music from the indies ensures that more of your money goes to the people that actually make the music.

Re:One more reason to use AllofMP3.com (1)

Petrushka (815171) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692284)

Can I ask some advice? I've been itching to get back to using Allofmp3 again, but can't work out how to fill my balance.
  • The Allofmp3 website doesn't give any hints that you can't actually use Visa or Mastercard. I presume this is to avoid admitting fault; but for an end-customer it's pretty irritating. Nothing's changed there, has it?
  • Xrost seems to be a recommended choice. But paying for an Xrost icard is a problem in itself! There are three payment options for Xrost:
    • Ukash and Paysafecard are Europe-only;
    • Clickandbuy (apart from having a very dodgy privacy policy) doesn't seem to want to allow service to my country either -- at least, my country isn't one of the options available for opening an account.
  • allTunes sounds like it's owned by the same people as Allofmp3, so I presume credit cards aren't an option there either -- ?

So what's the story? If Allofmp3 won't give good advice to its customers, that doesn't exactly endear them to me. Maybe you, or someone, can offer a suggestion.

Re:One more reason to use AllofMP3.com (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17692292)

> They're getting people who don't spend money on music to spend money.

That's pretty much what the guy selling stereos out of the back of his van said too.

Oh Noes!!! (5, Funny)

ruiner13 (527499) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691674)

I can only imagine how upset the zune owners will be once they find this out. Heck, both of them might even return the zunes!

Duh. (5, Interesting)

Anthony Boyd (242971) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691680)

In a non-scientific sampling of popular artists by Zunerama and Zune Thoughts, it looks like it's roughly 40-50 percent of artist that fall under this prohibited banner, and the worst news is that there's no warning that a song might be unsharable until you actually try to send it and fail.

Well of course there is no warning that a song might be unsharable! If they warned you, you might not buy it.

Easier solution to sharing (1)

DanTheManMS (1039636) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691686)

Much easier solution to sharing songs: just get a portable headphone amplifier/splitter ($20 at Radio Shack) and have your friend plug his/her headphones into your player. Heck, if you're really that crazy about sharing your music with random people, carry around some of those crappy airline earbuds they give you for free. Then the other person doesn't even need a music player to begin with.

Re:Easier solution to sharing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17691968)

Much easier solution to sharing songs: just get a portable headphone amplifier/splitter ($20 at Radio Shack) and have your friend plug his/her headphones into your player. Heck, if you're really that crazy about sharing your music with random people, carry around some of those crappy airline earbuds they give you for free. Then the other person doesn't even need a music player to begin with.

I have an even easier approach: buy the CD and make them a copy. Not only is it easy to share, you can rip the CD to any format you want, any quality/bit rate you want, listen to it wherever you want, on any number of players, and copy it any number of times. In addition, if your hard drive fails, or something else bad happens, you don't have to buy all of your music over again, you can just re-rip from the original CDs.

It's not technically legal to share the CD, but since there's no way at all for them to catch you, for all practical purposes it's not really illegal, either.

Sounds like.... (0, Offtopic)

Marko DeBeeste (761376) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691694)

Karma-kazi (or at least Karma Sutra) to me.

And Universal gets paid for each Zune sold, why? (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17691728)

Ok... you may or may not remember the following item from billboard magazine a few weeks ago:

http://billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.js p?vnu_content_id=1003380831 [billboard.com]

"Yesterday, Microsoft agreed to share revenue from Zune sales with record labels and artists. Forcing the issue was Universal Music Group, which at deadline is the only label named in the program. UMG refused to license its music to the Zune unless it could receive a percentage of each device sold, in addition to standard music licensing fees for downloads and subscriptions.

"These devices are just repositories for stolen music, and they all know it," UMG chairman/CEO Doug Morris says. "So it's time to get paid for it."


When I saw the headlines on Engadget I thought for sure Universal wouldnt be one of the labels, after all Microsoft chose to pay them off causing good ol' Doug to say he's entitled to a chunk of iPod sales as well. This begs the question: what was the point of the payoff? What did it get them?

Re:And Universal gets paid for each Zune sold, why (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17692036)

Karma!

Microsoft screwed its PlayForSure partners(1). Now Sony and Universal screw Microsoft(2).

(1) And customers get screwed too.
(2) And customers get screwed too.

Re:And Universal gets paid for each Zune sold, why (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17692068)

i can pirate music and put it on my (imaginary) Zune since Universal already got paid ?

Re:And Universal gets paid for each Zune sold, why (1)

gearfab (913180) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692156)

"These devices are just repositories for stolen music, and they all know it," UMG chairman/CEO Doug Morris says.

So I ripped my copy of The Eagles Greatest Hits to my iPod [I've personally purchased the LP, 8-Track, cassette and CD of that silly little record over the course of 20 years], and that makes me a thief?! Let me personally welcome the extinction of the music industry and mouth breathers like Doug Morris. They will not be missed. And "artists" can only gain from it.

Re:And Universal gets paid for each Zune sold, why (4, Interesting)

mrchaotica (681592) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692178)

...causing good ol' Doug to say he's entitled to a chunk of iPod sales as well. This begs the question: what was the point of the payoff? What did it get them?

You answered your own question! Precedent for forcing the same kind of "deal" on Apple is the payoff. Microsoft doesn't give a shit about the Zune; that's why it isn't a "PlaysForSure" device (and probably why it looks like a piece of shit too). It's greatest value to Microsoft is as a sabot -- a shoe to throw into Apple's works.

Re:And Universal gets paid for each Zune sold, why (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692208)

I just don't see Apple giving royalties on music except for sales of actual tracks. This entitlement business based on presumed guilt is a bit much, the labels don't directly see money for CD player sales, or CD writers for that matter, so there's little precedence for them to get royalties on other types of players. I don't think any of the RIAA can afford to drop iTunes, it is a top five seller for them and the margins are better for them. I don't doubt that a great many PMPs are being used to carry infringing copies of music, but that's no justification.

I'd think that Universal would embrace the Zune platform better than that, because they think they are being held hostage by Apple's dominance in the paid download market, having an alternative sales platform would give them leverage against Apple. The thought that they are dropping a fantastic viral promotional tool such as the "sharing" is just beyond baffling. We know the RIAA game is about control, but this is ludicrous to the level of "1) load gun. 2) shoot foot.".

I guess the real way forward is indie music and new, more enlightened labels.

tr0ll (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17691740)

Indecision 4nd [goat.cx]

Wow that is... quite sublime (2, Insightful)

JoeCommodore (567479) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691780)

Pretty much had my jaw drop on that one - in light of MS stating the Zune with its wireless sharing features will 'kill' the iPhone and iPod and such you would have thought the Music Industry would play all nicey-nicey till the Zune had some market share then start doing thier stuff.

What they mean is (2, Funny)

geekoid (135745) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692170)

with the Zune's bulk, you could easily use it to smash an iPhone or iPod.

This time for sure, Charlie (4, Funny)

straponego (521991) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691852)

Come on, loyal Microsoft customers, what are the odds that she'd pull the ball away just before you try to kick it again? You're due!

/me waits for the inevitable "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAUGGGH!!"

Re:This time for sure, Charlie (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17692132)

Two thoughts come to mind...

Good grief

and

ROFLMHWPCAO!!!!!

aaahh hahahaha! (1)

Aqua OS X (458522) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691866)

So so so wait... Microsoft gives Universal a chunk of change every time a Zune is sold, THEN Universal prevents certain songs from utilizing the only significant gimmick the Zune has?

Not that "squirting" was actually simple to begin with, nevertheless, this is how Universal repays Microsoft? F*cking classic.

Hopefully the nanotech battery angels will come down, make WiFI PMPs practical, and allow sharing that is at least similar to iTunes library sharing. And hopefully by then Universal will have pulled its head out of its ass.

Re:aaahh hahahaha! (1)

ewieling (90662) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691966)

So so so wait... Microsoft gives Universal a chunk of change every time a Zune is sold, THEN Universal prevents certain songs from utilizing the only significant gimmick the Zune has?

It's nice to see Microsoft get screwed for once, rather than Microsoft screwing someone else.

Highly improbable scenario (0, Offtopic)

DreadfulGrape (398188) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691880)

"if you've actually purchased songs from the Zune marketplace and happen to run into another Zune owner"

Hrm. No wonder ZuneSpam isn't out yet... (1)

tlhIngan (30335) | more than 7 years ago | (#17691930)

Since the Zune has WiFi, I'd assume someone would've tried to reverse-engineer the protocol so they can send any music file to any zune (and photos, etc). In other words, a perfect way to fill someone's zune with spam, or basically DoS their Zune by having the screen constantly filled with "xxxx wants to send you a file, accept?".

I guess with so few Zunes sold, well, the effort isn't worth the rewards. Though, captive audiences...

youz all bitches anyhow (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17691936)

what's your fucking problem you dumb fags? been sucking them dicks again? dirty fucking faggots.

The funniest part (5, Interesting)

quantaman (517394) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692002)

The Zune has only been out for something like a month and people have just noticed this out now??

Just how unpopular is it?!?

Hold nail on coffin, beat with hammer (1)

thirty2bit (685528) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692010)

I was actually hoping Zune would be a viable competitor to the iPod, being so sick of the latter having saturated our culture (the vehicle with the integrated iPod dock was the straw). But Microsoft's DRM, the restricted media sharing, no Mac support... just crippled it horribly out of the gate. And now bowing/catering to the Monster Records when they should Stand Tall... is just pitiful.

I actually pity Microsoft in a small way, and recalling their other boners (such as BOB), I can't wait to see what they come up with to try and save face.

RTFLMAO M$ the great backer of DRM (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17692020)

cuz me have to blow the jolt cola out of my nose...

Stick a fork in it. (2, Funny)

jcr (53032) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692026)

Zune is done.

-jcr

Re:Stick a fork in it. (2, Funny)

Teresita (982888) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692120)

The Zune display at Circuit City is just as big as the Divx display was back in about 1996, same hopeful looks in the salesperson's eyes as you float by.

Let's look at this practically (0, Redundant)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692060)

"...and happen to run into another Zune owner..."

Really, what are the odds of that happening anyway?

tubgi8ll (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17692076)

you ge"t distracted paalid bodies and

Let me get this straight... (0, Redundant)

hahafaha (844574) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692104)

...Microsoft enters a market where another company has a near monopoly with an inferior, more expensive product, whose only real advantage is a feature, which is now crippled half the time?

Why did they do that?

New Ads (1)

Basehart (633304) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692116)

"Beam 50% Of Your Beats"

Microsoft is a bunch of moron (1)

spitzak (4019) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692126)

Basically, why did they even add the option to their DRM to prevent "squirting"? Did the seriously think that the paranoid recording companies would *not* use that option if it was there? If they had the slightest brains at all, they would have realized that they had in fact disabled one of the few features of the Zune. And they certainly should have known they had the power to refuse to implement such an option. Most of the DRM is there to lock people into using the Zune and thus satisfies Microsoft's own personal interests, but this option makes no sense what so ever!

No matter whether you think Microsoft is Satan's spawn or the greatest company in the world, it is obvious this decision is completely against their desires. This is proof positive that they are a bunch of idiots. This is scary yet relieving at the same time...

The greed of these people always astounds me (1)

Zorque (894011) | more than 7 years ago | (#17692174)

I know I should expect it. The people that own the companies do so only because they've invested the most in the company, they don't really care about the music. But still, it's pretty ridiculous that these people -most of whom will never be able to spend all of their money before they die- are so wholeheartedly willing to ruin it for everyone and everything just to get every penny they can get. Scum, all of them.

this site's form sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17692280)

meh,

I have a 30gb Creative Labs mp3 player and I downloaded all my gigs of music with P2P software.

I have no problems with playback or anything else.

To think these companies want me to pay them money to make my life a living hell as I try to figure out why what I paid for doesn't work.

Staying with 'off brand' hardware and stealing the music works for me, no reason to change that I can see.
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