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Microsoft Admits Vista Has "High Impact Issues"

kdawson posted more than 7 years ago | from the surprising-no-one dept.

Windows 520

EggsAndSausage writes "Microsoft has granted, in a roundabout way, that Vista has 'high impact issues.' It has put out an email call for technical users to participate in testing Service Pack 1, due out later this year, which will address 'regressions from Windows Vista and Windows XP, security, deployment blockers and other high impact issues.' It's hard to know whether to be reassured that Service Pack 1 is coming in the second half of 2007, and thus that there is a timeframe for considering deployment of Vista within businesses, or to be alarmed that Microsoft is unleashing an OS on the world with 'high impact issues' still remaining." In other news, one blogger believes that Vista is the first Microsoft OS since Windows 3.1 to have regressed in usability from its predecessor (he kindly forgives and dismisses Windows ME). And there's a battle raging over the top 10 reasons to get Vista or not to get Vista.

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520 comments

Using Vista for a bit (2)

0racle (667029) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718512)

Exactly how is it less usable then XP. They pretty much both work.

Re:Using Vista for a bit (5, Interesting)

x_MeRLiN_x (935994) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718562)

While it's certainly not a disaster, cases such as this can hardly be denied.

I've also been struck by how, even with all the notifications I get in Vista, how annoying it is to find basic information. For example, in Windows XP you have a control panel called "Add or Remove Programs." While not elegant, it is clear. You know what that control panel's functionality is, no guessing. It adds and removes programs. The Vista version? "Programs and Features." Huh? What does that do? Well, you don't know from the name, other than it has something to do with well, programs and features. When you think about it, that rather covers the entire OS and everything you'd do on a computer. Yet "Add Hardware" is the same on both versions. In Windows XP, you set your display options using the "Display" control panel. That's nice and clear. Vista? It's buried in "Personalization." Because when I want to change my monitor resolution, that's exactly what pops into my head as an experienced Windows user: Personalization. Yet mouse settings, which look to have been rolled into "Personalization," still have their own separate entry.
[an article [informationweek.com] from this story [slashdot.org]]

Re:Using Vista for a bit (4, Insightful)

The MAZZTer (911996) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718612)

How many "legacy apps" (IE anything not written specifically for Vista) have you tried to use? The problem won't be with Vista itself, but how Vista reacts with older programs, programs you love, perhaps even programs you can't live without. I have Vista RC2 installed but I have not booted into it in a while for just that reason. It's also probably a big reason why Linux isn't catching on...

Re:Using Vista for a bit (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17718752)

if you can't figure out why winmine.exe won't work in Linux, there's no hope for you...

Re:Using Vista for a bit (5, Interesting)

Babbster (107076) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718792)

Can you give some examples of programs you love and/or can't do without that worked with XP but won't work under Vista? I'm both honestly curious and "calling you out" because a post such as yours should have included such examples in the first place.

Oh, and basing your post on RC2 (a "release candidate" - not the final version, if that needs to be said) doesn't help, either.

Re:Using Vista for a bit (4, Informative)

slaker (53818) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718994)

Nero. In fact, no software I tried for DVD burning (e.g. DVD Shrink, AnyDVD) worked under Vista. I tried the Enterprise edition, FWIW.
Also, I suspect that upgraders who paid for a multi-year license for their Antivirus software are going to be in for a bit of a surprise.

Re:Using Vista for a bit (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17719104)

Oooo Wait Wait! Lets all use software for Linux on Vista! It MUST work! What part of "changed the whole underlying operating system" did you not get!!!

Practically everything you install from now on will be in user space. DVD crapware from nero etc try to install themselves into the kernel space. Hmmm...user space...kernel space....user space....kernel space....hmmm...I wonder which is better!!

Re:Using Vista for a bit (3, Insightful)

Shados (741919) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718618)

Didn't try Vista, but I know one thing: people have short memories. I remember when XP came out, after trying it a bit, I had sworn to stick with Windows 2000 for like ever. And have until WinXP SP1, near the release of SP2. Microsoft has an history of releasing beta products. Always has been that way: Windows NT 4 wasn't stable enough to be seriously used until SP5, and was blue screening like it was Windows ME until SP6 (if I remember well), at which point it was decent for working on.

Just stick with XP until Vista SP one, the same way one should have stuck with 2k (not talking about home users here, though 2k was good even for home use) until XP SP1, etc.

For the OEMs, well...they get Vista for 5$ over the price of the raw hardware, so I guess its consolation. Or just don't buy OEM. For the rest for whom all these options are not possible...well, they're allowed to complain I guess.

Re:Using Vista for a bit (2, Interesting)

Maxo-Texas (864189) | more than 7 years ago | (#17719112)

I'm sitting here on the windows XP box I purchased 3 days ago... with my main win2k box STILL running flawlessly to it's right.

The hardware is the main reason I upgraded-- that and i don't enjoy scratch building like i used to.

However, all my "real" processing is headed towards linux- the windows box is mainly for gaming. I just don't trust windows any more with my data. I think they will try to lock it in and they will control it for other people at my expense.

Re:Using Vista for a bit (2)

nine-times (778537) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718638)

Well, they kind of pretty much both work-- except where Vista doesn't work. I've tried Vista on a few computers. On some it works, and on others there aren't drivers yet for all the hardware. A lot of my software works on Vista, while some.... not so much.

You might say, "Hey, no big deal. Just get hardware and software that works on Vista!" Of course, one of the main things that keeps people on Windows is the inertia, that they already have all of this hardware and software that works with Windows. If you're going to buy a new computer with all new specific hardware and software, why not look to Apple or Linux?

Yes, it mostly works fine if you have all Vista-supported hardware and software, but even then it's a bit of an adjustment for people who are used to older versions of Windows, which is... well, everyone.

Re:Using Vista for a bit (1)

EvanED (569694) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718674)

Of course, one of the main things that keeps people on Windows is the inertia, that they already have all of this hardware and software that works with Windows. If you're going to buy a new computer with all new specific hardware and software, why not look to Apple or Linux?

Maybe the compy's due for an upgrade anyway? Maybe there's Windows-only software. Maybe you prefer Windows. Maybe you're a student at a school in a department with an MSDNAA subscription that gets you Windows for free.

Re:Using Vista for a bit (4, Informative)

eddy (18759) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718794)

> Exactly how is it less usable then XP. They pretty much both work.

I think the first post on this page [hardforum.com] (check out the images) summarize it pretty succinctly:

"Windows Media Player cannot play this DVD because there is a problem with digital copy protection between your DVD drive, decoder and video card. Try installing an updated driver for your video card."

Re:Using Vista for a bit (1)

brouski (827510) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718942)

You were told then, as I'll tell you now. The problem is the decoder, not the OS.

Re:Using Vista for a bit (1)

eddy (18759) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718998)

Only in the way that "The problem is the cold, not the AIDS". Symptomatic.

You can argue it if you want too, but I think my mind is pretty made up where the fault actually lies.

Re:Using Vista for a bit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17719044)

Then you're a moron for making your mind up. Who gave you the right to do that!!!

Re:Using Vista for a bit (3, Interesting)

X-Dopple (213116) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718910)

Vista's new Start menu is pretty much unusable for me. Instead of expanding 'All Programs' to the right as in previous versions, the list of programs now expands inside this cramped column; the delay while waiting for the list to populate is agonizing, and it can't be changed.

The idea is that you're supposed to type a few letters in the search box to find the program you're looking for. It just seems to me having to search with the keyboard for a program you want to open is counterintuitive.

Re:Using Vista for a bit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17718986)

Exactly how is [Windows Vista] less [than] usable[?]

Ask Microsoft. They are the ones who say Windows Vista has "high impact" issues. Then again, they also say Windows Vista has "image constraint" issues. Perhaps these euphemisms are clever ways for covering up for some serious shortcomings that affect vast numbers of users. Perhaps not?

No, I am NOT a Google SHILL !! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17718518)

No, I am NOT a Google SHILL !!

it's a euphemism. (4, Funny)

User 956 (568564) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718538)

Microsoft has granted, in a roundabout way, that Vista has 'high impact issues.

I'm sure they're using the phrase "High impact" in much the same way as the NTSB.

Win XP wins out over VISTA... (3, Insightful)

BoRegardless (721219) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718548)

for a long time, unless you just like to pay to be a beta tester.

It is way too expensive to be a business user and wind up "testing" a new OS with no easy way to regress.

Win XP Pro is going to be an option to install on most PCs for a long long time.

Re:Win XP wins out over VISTA... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17718614)

If you plan on running Vista at your business, just make sure you aren't running excessive amounts of old outdated applications that might rely on a number of method calls that would now be re-classified as "high-security" and thus cease to run. The "allow this to run" pop-up doesn't show up on on every single "high-security" related call, which means "exceptions,exceptions,exceptions".

Prepare for the fasted ever Service Pack (5, Interesting)

DrYak (748999) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718680)

Win XP wins out over VISTA for a long time, unless you just like to pay to be a beta tester.


The fact that so much people are thinking just like us "I'll wait Vista mature a bit, at least until SP1, before I give it a try" is the exact reason why Microsoft is going to rush out the fastest Service Pack you're ever seen.

Re:Prepare for the fasted ever Service Pack (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17718996)

After using RC2, I'm going to say that SP1 will also suck pretty hard. I'm not touching Vista again until at least SP2. Besides, SP2 is where XP got usable.

One blogger? (5, Insightful)

I'm Don Giovanni (598558) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718564)

"In other news, one blogger believes that Vista is the first Microsoft OS since Windows 3.1 to have regressed in usability from its predecessor"

Since when does "one blogger"'s view qualify as "news"? I'm sure at least "one blogger" thinks that OSX sucks or at least "one blogger" thinks that Linux sucks. Would that qualify as "news" as well?

The quality of the "news stories" that slashdot carries has gone downhill drastically in recent months.

Re:One blogger? (4, Insightful)

Darundal (891860) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718620)

One bloggers view(s) qualify as news when they have pertinant new information about a something happening in the world, a new outlook, a detailed analysis, or just a good overall post (article). Same as any other person who creates content that is exposed to a large mass.

Re:One blogger? (1, Funny)

Roadmaster (96317) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718784)

The quality of the "news stories" that slashdot carries has gone downhill drastically in recent months.
You're pretty new here, aren't you? :)

I'm just kidding ok, they have their days.

One blogger? Pay more attention. (1)

Vellmont (569020) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718854)

This is a story about Vista. While the opinion of $random_blogger isn't really worthy of a mention on Slashdot alone, it fits well within the context of the entire story.

Of course, it'd be a lot more interesting if we could actually read the other slashdotted links. But even the "one blogger" story is at least interesting. Just because he's not some respected journalist (or even a disrespected journalist like Cringley or Dvorak) doesn't mean his opinion of Vista isn't just as valid.

Every large N started out with 0. (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17718898)

Here [technologyreview.com], now there are two. Please qualify for which N slashdot is allowed to post. Thanks.

"Inbuilt undelete" (4, Funny)

EvanED (569694) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718568)

8. Inbuilt undelete
Or, depending on how you look at it, inbuilt rolling backup. Every time you make a change to a file or delete it, Windows keeps the previous version. As a result, the "oh !@#$ I just overwrote my entire PhD with Document1" feeling can be quickly assuaged. Read more...


But the read more link is broken. Maybe they need to restore it with undelete.

This sounds exciting... I've always wanted a filesystem that would act like CVS with each save. I don't know if this is doing quite that, but it's intriguing at least. (I think there's a Linux filesystem called Elephant that does something like this, but I haven't looked into it much.

(The other thing that I wonder why other file systems haven't adopted is NTFS's alternate streams. They seem like they could be really useful for some stuff...)

Re:"Inbuilt undelete" (3, Insightful)

0racle (667029) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718666)

The other thing that I wonder why other file systems haven't adopted is NTFS's alternate streams. They seem like they could be really useful for some stuff
Apple agrees [wikipedia.org], it can be a neat thing.

Re:"Inbuilt undelete" (1)

EvanED (569694) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718744)

Right, but why hasn't like ext or Reiser picked up something like this? (Or have they and I'm just out of the loop.) Apple's data and resource forks are the only thing that I know of that are similar. (And to be honest I thought that OS X brought an end to them, and I definitely wasn't aware that they support arbitrary streams. Guess I was mis- AND un-informed)

And why does almost no one use them? (Apart from the data/resource forks.) Is it because moving to other file systems is problematic?

Re:"Inbuilt undelete" (2, Funny)

phoenix.bam! (642635) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718780)

ext has aimed for stability and predictability as well as backwards and forwards compatibility. And Reiser seems to have murdered his wife and probably won't have much time to write any new code.

Re:"Inbuilt undelete" (2, Funny)

Penguinshit (591885) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718808)

And Reiser seems to have murdered his wife and probably won't have much time to write any new code.

He'll have plenty of time; he'll just have to use a crayon...

Re:"Inbuilt undelete" (1)

Tony Hoyle (11698) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718702)

VMS was doing that 20 years ago... they probably weren't the first either.

I'm surprised it's taken Windows that long. OTOH the feature currently doesn't work on Vista (doesn't look like it's implemented) - there's a 'versions' in properties but it's never populated.

Re:"Inbuilt undelete" (2, Informative)

atsabig10fo (857922) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718774)

actually it does work. i can guarantee that it does, because i accidentally deleted a major compsci assignment last semester, and went back and used the restore previous option, and it worked just as advertised.

Re:"Inbuilt undelete" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17718706)

Isn't it just Volume Shadow Copy (But for all folders now)? Or is this something new?

Re:"Inbuilt undelete" (1)

dbIII (701233) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718750)

This sounds exciting... I've always wanted a filesystem that would act like CVS with each save.

I think VMS had this a very long time ago and it worked well - however the underlying problem with anything like this is that your disks fill up with stuff you don't need. The answers are - good backups and applications like CVS for situations where you want it.

Re:"Inbuilt undelete" (1)

EvanED (569694) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718872)

I think VMS had this a very long time ago and it worked well - however the underlying problem with anything like this is that your disks fill up with stuff you don't need.

But we could do stuff now like intelligent garbage collection where it goes through and starts thinning out old versions of files when the drive starts to fill.

Even if it sometimes needs the user's input to decide what it can throw out, I'd still love to have this feature.

The answers are - good backups and applications like CVS for situations where you want it.

Backups aren't fine-grained enough, especially for home users. Like me, everyone says "you have to back up your stuff", but I don't know how to do it... burning backups even to DVD would take forever. I can't afford fancier solutions. Even a hundred bucks for a hard drive just for backup would be pushing it. I *certainly* can't afford to keep multiple backups. I'm just a poor grad student. My backup regimin is that I burn important stuff to disc roughly corresponding to the end of each semester. Backups don't take the place of CVS-like capabilities at all; the space problem is even more aggrivated than with just CVS unless you only do incremental backups.

Using CVS isn't a particularily good solution either. Talk about space problems? Now I've got both the copy in the repository AND the working copy. Putting everything into a repository's a pain too... I would like to have pretty much all of my documents in the repository. And I would even still like finer-grained time slices that CVS provides without way to much running 'cvs ci'. I don't know; maybe having a version every save would be too much, but I would at least want to give it a shot. It's really hard to predict what you might want to have access to in the future. Actually, what I think would be *REALLY* sweet is to have it down to the granularity of your actions that changed the document -- so you can, for instance, go back and see the individual letters in a document being added. But that really needs more than file-system support.

NTFS's alternate streams (4, Informative)

r00t (33219) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718880)

These are Trouble with a capital "T".

(For those that don't know: a file can have multiple bodies, and a directory can have file bodies too. You can do "notepad C:\WINDOWS:holycrap.txt" to put a stream on the WINDOWS directory.)

Viruses hide in alternate streams. Backup software forgets alternate streams. Web servers and browsers forget alternate streams. FTP servers and clients forget alternate streams.

When next you are running out of disk space, perhaps it is an alternate stream! The file size shown in Windows explorer does not show the alternate streams.

If you really want this load of crap on Linux though... see the user_xattr mount option, which you may set via /etc/fstab or via the tune2fs program.

Re:NTFS's alternate streams (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17718912)

So that a NO to crossing the streams right?

Re:NTFS's alternate streams (3, Insightful)

EvanED (569694) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718992)

Viruses hide in alternate streams.

Viruses hide in files too. If there was better support for them, they could be as visible there as they are in files. Part of the question I'm asking is why isn't that support there.

Backup software forgets alternate streams. Web servers and browsers forget alternate streams. FTP servers and clients forget alternate streams.

Again, lack of tool support, not a problem with the concept. (In the case of FTP servers, you almost HAVE to forget about the alternate streams (or serialize them) because most other filesystems don't support them.

Damn! (0, Offtopic)

Cafe Alpha (891670) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718572)

There are only four comments and already the sites are slashdotted!

Re:Damn! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17718760)

Unable to connect to database server

This either means that the username and password information in your settings.php file is incorrect or we can't contact the MySQL database server. This could mean your hosting provider's database server is down.

The MySQL error was: Too many connections.

Currently, the username is drupal and the database server is localhost.

        * Are you sure you have the correct username and password?
        * Are you sure that you have typed the correct hostname?
        * Are you sure that the database server is running?

For more help, see the Installation and upgrading handbook. If you are unsure what these terms mean you should probably contact your hosting provider.

Seriously? (1)

aussersterne (212916) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718576)

I don't have Vista. Can anyone with Vista verify what this guy says about the file dialog? I'm just a bit shocked and even with my general lack of respect for Microsoft hesitant to believe they'd release something that broken.

Re:Seriously? (0)

fm6 (162816) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718834)

You'll have to be more specific. Do you mean the bit about it being more difficult to navigate to the parent directory? That's not a bug: too much malware gets installed that way. Or do you mean th stupidity about putting the URL history in the drop down box? That's the sort of "user experience" fuckup that happens all the time when designers do think things through. Microsoft is particularly bad this way (mainly because they rely too much on focus groups when they should be analyzing the overall process) but I see it everywhere. I recently had to turn off automatic form entry in Firefox 2.0 because it was almost impossible to enter a new value that shared an initial substring with an old value.

Re:Seriously? (5, Insightful)

Sylver Dragon (445237) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718928)

Nope, the blogger is just an idiot. Or possibly just ignorant, but I feel like being insulting.
  1. The new file browsing interface is broken
    1. Notice that when I clicked on the dropdown it shows me a bunch of websites. A BUNCH OF FRICKEN WEBSITES! No, not the usual tree of folders, and My computer so I can locate a file.
      Apparently the "Folders" tool on the left is too hard to use. Take a look at his picture, if he just clicked on the "Folders" link on the left he would have a nice, easy to navigate tree right there. Yes, the address bar's drop-down is a sort of history. As for the web sites, mine seem to spawn a web browser (Firefox even) just fine.
    2. One other bone I have to pick with the new browsing interface is the difficulty in going back to the parent of the current directory. The new way makes going back up a few folders a much longer process. Simply stated there is no one button that will always bring you back up to the parent.
      Again, the author shows his ignorance. Just click on the breadcrumb of where you want to go, ta-da! you're now there. Granted it's not a button, but it's infinitely more useful. Not only can I go up one level with one click I can go up n levels with one click.
  2. The new start menu sucks (Kind of)
    This one I will give him is a wash. The built in search rocks. And personally, I'm used to <Win>+R to open the run dialog. <Win>+R then 'c:' still gets me an explorer window at c:\. Though I tend to use <Win>+E and then using the folder tree to get to the c:\, but to each their own. My major complaint with this is that shutting down has changed for me. I used to use <Win>, U, S, <Enter> to shut down. That's gone now, now I just hit the power button on my laptop.
  3. Windows Networking is a mess
    This one I'll give him. Changing IP addresses is now buried yet another layer deeper. You had to dig enough in XP. This "Network and Sharing Center" is a bit annoying. Though one thing it does have going for it is that you can quickly tell whether you are sharing folders or not, and control it from there. Overall, more of a "meh" than a problem.
  4. Windows Search Is Broken - Now when I want a simple search for any file that contains the string 'IntelliAdmin' I can't do it.
    And, we're back to stupidity. There is a little box in the upper left hand corner of the Explorer window, oddly labeled "search", it's even visible in some of his screenshots. Type a string of letters in, and Presto! Vista goes and finds any file with the applicable search string (it even checks inside Word, Excel and text documents.)
  5. Windows copying has not improved
    This is another one I'll give him, copying and the associated network issues are a problem MS needs to fix. For the entire OS to seize up because a network location is unreachable is just stupid.

    Overall the author of the article manages to just show that he's only touched Vista long enough to be annoyed with the changes, and not get used to them. I've been running Vista since RC1, and excepting driver support which sucked in the release candidate, but that's to be expected, I've generally liked Vista. Most of the complaints I have heard are either ill-informed or just downright wrong. That's not to say that there aren't still issues with Vista. Driver support still sucks, the network hang-ups should really be fixed (or at least give me a cancel button for when I know I mistyped), changing security and network settings are now buried one layer deeper in almost all cases, and getting used to the security pop-up takes some doing. Though, in defense of the last one, this is something that people have been asking for; just running everything as a local administrator is insane, you wouldn't run Linux as root all the time would you? One thing that Vista does lack in this regard is a non-admin way of viewing settings that should require admin level rights to change. I'd like to be able to view the Computer Management snap-in without running it as admin.

Re:Seriously? (5, Insightful)

EvanED (569694) | more than 7 years ago | (#17719026)

Apparently the "Folders" tool on the left is too hard to use. Take a look at his picture, if he just clicked on the "Folders" link on the left he would have a nice, easy to navigate tree right there. Yes, the address bar's drop-down is a sort of history. As for the web sites, mine seem to spawn a web browser (Firefox even) just fine.

At the same time, there is still a valid criticism here. First, why change a perfectly working UI by not only moving the previous functionality to somewhere completely different and unconnected to the old location, but then using the old location for something else instead of removing it?

Secondly, why is there a web history in the open/save dialog at all? Can anyone think of a remotely plausable use case where this would be helpful?

Re:Seriously? (1)

CK2004PA (827615) | more than 7 years ago | (#17719058)

Windows copying has not improved This is another one I'll give him, copying and the associated network issues are a problem MS needs to fix. For the entire OS to seize up because a network location is unreachable is just stupid.


I agree, that is why I stopped using Ubuntu. Everytime a DVD wasn't recognized, the whole thing locked up, cold boot only solution. Stupid.

Already testing SP1? (3, Insightful)

jmorris42 (1458) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718578)

Ok, announcing SP1 for the second half of 07 is reasonable since all software has bugs. Calling for testers for the first service pack before the turd actually drops from their butts[1] is another thing entirely. If they have known 'high impact issues' they should delay initial release one more time. This is supposed to be a stable commercial product. Fedora would (hell, HAS) hold a release if it had 'high impact issues' and they pitch themselves as more of an early adopter testbed. Vista is going to be forcefed on millions of unsuspecting computer buyers whether they want it or not. Is it really unreasonable to expect the KNOWN bugs to be squished before forcing OEMs to preload it?

[1] No I do not count the corporate edition released in Nov because it was simply a stunt to claim to have shipped in 06. They knew full well no same corporate IT dept would do anything other than begin testing with a version they would consider the 'final beta'.

One Site. Three slashdot links. (5, Funny)

mindstormpt (728974) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718594)

That's just cruel.

Re:One Site. Three slashdot links. (1)

rblum (211213) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718676)

The fun thing is that the bloggers site is still up and running. It's the "pro's" who screwed up. But I'm glad they want to advise me on chosing the best OS....

Why not to get Vista? (2, Interesting)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718628)

1: It's more of the same. How many times do you have to buy more of the same before you realise it isn't solving your problems?
2: Ubuntu. It's even free.
3: OSX was out in 2000, Vista is 6 years behind the state of the art.
4: Wired for DRM, your computer is no longer fully under your control... muses... Was it ever with Windows.
5: It costs money. See #2.
6: Massive monoculture bad juju. Perfect for virus/trojan/worm writers. Hell, even evolution produced sexuality to avoid monocultures, that's how good diversity is.
7: Retraining costs. See #2.
8: Bad for the environment. Requires another round of system purchases and junking of "old" systems.

Bill Gates: Profit!

I'm sure there are more.

Re:Why not to get Vista? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17718848)

1. Yeah, except no. Vista has a completely new audio and network architecture, as well as a new driver model.
2. I don't particularly care, for example, editing /etc/x.org/fuckoffanddie/settings.conf to change the refresh rate. Extreme example, but it's not too far removed from some of the work I've had to do to get stuff working on Linux. ALSA anyone?
3. Er, what is 'state of the art'? 3D desktops?
4. Only a issue if you play protected content.
5. I got Vista for free through MSDNAA.
6. Always been an issue with Windows
7. Most companies are still stuck on Windows 2000.
8. Wait, what?

Re:Why not to get Vista? (1)

Lotvog (1034852) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718878)

[i]6: Massive monoculture bad juju. Perfect for virus/trojan/worm writers. Hell, even evolution produced sexuality to avoid monocultures, that's how good diversity is.[/i] I'm with the parent here: I caged a MAC up with a PC YEARS ago and they *still* won't do the nasty! Won't somebody please think about our computers' children?!

Not to nitpick (2, Informative)

snuf23 (182335) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718970)

But the version of OSX that was available 6 years ago was a lot worse than the current one. Apple has made a lot of improvements over the past 6 years.

Re:Why not to get Vista? (4, Insightful)

gsn (989808) | more than 7 years ago | (#17719082)

1: It's more of the same. How many times do you have to buy more of the same before you realise it isn't solving your problems?
2: Ubuntu. It's even free.
3: OSX was out in 2000, Vista is 6 years behind the state of the art.
4: Wired for DRM, your computer is no longer fully under your control... muses... Was it ever with Windows.
5: It costs money. See #2.
6: Massive monoculture bad juju. Perfect for virus/trojan/worm writers. Hell, even evolution produced sexuality to avoid monocultures, that's how good diversity is.
7: Retraining costs. See #2.
8: Bad for the environment. Requires another round of system purchases and junking of "old" systems.

Bill Gates: Profit!

I'm sure there are more.


_______

I'll give you 5 (statement of fact) and 6 (I agree) but the rest of this is wrong, unrealistic or just plain trolling (and pretty badly given your low UID)

1: Wrong. It does have new features. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windo ws_Vista [wikipedia.org] .
2: Unrealistic. Retraining costs, software, utter nigthmare to get it to work on some laptops (I've tried personally). Not possible for gamers. I love linux and have used several distros, and Ubuntu is very, very good but I can't send Mark Shuttleworth the bill for the time I spent fixing things or hunting for solutions in forums. I don't really mind the time and can actually get things to work the way I wan't but a lot of people cannot. I do have a Windows XP desktop and I have had significantly fewer problems with it than my debian box in lab or my zenwalk laptop.
3: Trolling a) So? b) Vista copies several features in OS X c) I can't buy it off the shelf d) Limited games and software - also see 4)
4: Wrong - I agree the DRM is principally to ensure a monopoly in the longterm (I argued this yesterday - see comment history) but it is still exactly as invasive as the content provider requires. OS X will require the same content controls, as will any Linux player to play commercial HD content. Several Linux distros support the TPM yet I don't hear anyone yelling about it.
5: Statement of fact. A lot of things do. Like I said I cannot send Mark Shuttleworth a bill for my time. Linux is free as in speech and maybe avaialble free as in beer but the cost of drinking that beer isn't being fully factored in here.
6: I cannot disagree. C'est la vie. We can all point fingers and you can yell at people to change to OS X/some linux but they aren't going to. I prefer helping them get their windows boxes more secure.
7: I don't see how your point 7 relates to 2 at all. Are you arguing that the retraining costs are offset by the free OS? See 5.
8: Trolling. Most people are getting Vista with a new computer and are junking old systems irrespective. Also you don't have to junk it at all just because you choose to upgrade. I've a 7 year old Thinkpad that happily runs vector.

___

Given 1 there are quite a few reasons to upgrade to vista (and I don't carea bout anything on the top of that page. ASLR and UAC, however annoying it is, itself make it worth it. PatchGuard, irrespective of how the antivirii companies feel is also a great idea. Should these have been there ages ago. Sure. Is linux more secure anyway. Sure. Are people going to change. Nope. Too much depends on Windows and migrating to another OS is not an option for several buisness/gamers and just plain old users. However you feel about that and how MS got their monopoly, it is simply the current situation and is not going to change.

not a llort (5, Funny)

anagama (611277) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718630)

Before you mod me troll, RTFA #5. Then mod me troll.

I don't want to start a holy war here, but what is the deal with Vista file transfer performance? I've been sitting here at my freelance gig in front of a Vista box for about 20 minutes now while it attempts to copy a 17 Meg file from one folder on the hard drive to another folder. 20 minutes. At home, on my Color iBook G3, which by all standards should be a lot slower than this Vista compatible heavy duty hardware, the same operation would take about 2 minutes. If that.

In addition, during this file transfer, Explorer will not work. And everything else has ground to a halt. Even Notepad is straining to keep up as I type this.

I won't bore you with the laundry list of other problems that I've encountered while working on my Vista beast, but suffice it to say there have been many, not the least of which is I've never seen a Vista machine that has run faster than my old C64, despite the latest dual core goodness and a $400 video card in this Vista box. My TRS-80 color computer with 16 KB (that's "kilo", not "mega") of ram runs faster than this core 2 duo machine at times. From a productivity standpoint, I don't get how people can claim that the Vista is a superior OS.

Vista addicts, flame me if you'd like, but I'd rather hear some intelligent reasons why anyone would choose to use Vista over other faster, cheaper, more stable systems.

Re:not a llort (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17718686)

haven't seen - or posted - that one in over a year. nice job on the rewrite (Trash-80.. memories.........)

Re:not a llort (2, Funny)

robogun (466062) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718756)

Are you running an AV program, some seem to take their sweet, sweet time sniffing every file that crosses its path.

I should add in my experience, XP is slower than 2000 in transerring files, particularly from flash cards & such. So it wouldn't surprise me if this turns out to be an OS issue.

Re:not a llort (2, Funny)

melikamp (631205) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718798)

I know nothing about Vista, but sounds like DMA might be disabled.

Re:not a llort (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17718846)

I know nothing about Vista, but sounds like DRM might be disabled.

Thought you were making a funny until I read it over a few times. Come to think of it, exactly what type of file is he trying to copy?

Re:not a llort (5, Informative)

sokoban (142301) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718864)

Who the fuck modded you +informative?

This is a joke based on an old anti-Mac OS troll that used to get posted here on /. a whole lot back in the day.

This should be +funny, but I guess a lot of people don't get the joke anymore and think you're serious.
Here's the Original BTW:

I don't want to start a holy war here, but what is the deal with you Mac fanatics? I've been sitting here at my freelance gig in front of a Mac (a 8600/300 w/64 Megs of RAM) for about 20 minutes now while it attempts to copy a 17 Meg file from one folder on the hard drive to another folder. 20 minutes. At home, on my Pentium Pro 200 running NT 4, which by all standards should be a lot slower than this Mac, the same operation would take about 2 minutes. If that.

In addition, during this file transfer, Netscape will not work. And everything else has ground to a halt. Even BBEdit Lite is straining to keep up as I type this.

I won't bore you with the laundry list of other problems that I've encountered while working on various Macs, but suffice it to say there have been many, not the least of which is I've never seen a Mac that has run faster than its Wintel counterpart, despite the Macs' faster chip architecture. My 486/66 with 8 megs of ram runs faster than this 300 mhz machine at times. From a productivity standpoint, I don't get how people can claim that the Macintosh is a superior machine.

Mac addicts, flame me if you'd like, but I'd rather hear some intelligent reasons why anyone would choose to use a Mac over other faster, cheaper, more stable systems.

Re:not a llort (2, Informative)

sokoban (142301) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718920)

Jesus H. Christ people, GP is NOT A TROLL.

IT'S FUNNY, LAUGH!

lameness filter is lame

Re:not a llort (1)

Frogbert (589961) | more than 7 years ago | (#17719066)

People mod stuff like this +Informative because other people mod it -Troll. If they moderated it funny the original poster would lose out on karma even though their post may end up at +5 Funny because funny mods don't count.

Re:not a llort (1)

Sylver Dragon (445237) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718988)

I've been sitting here at my freelance gig in front of a Vista box for about 20 minutes now while it attempts to copy a 17 Meg file from one folder on the hard drive to another folder. 20 minutes.
Start backing up your data now.
Any system which chugs along for that long on a 17MB file either has some serious problems, or a dialog box hiding behind an active window waiting on a response. I'm running Vista on a laptop and while the file copy is slow, it's nothing like that.

Steve Ballmer and high impact chairs. (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17718632)

"Vista better be issue free or there will be high impact issues between chairs and code monkeys."

Article /.ted (2, Informative)

gsn (989808) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718660)

Reckon you won't upgrade to Vista until the first service pack is released? That's looking likely to be the second half of this year, according to Microsoft's latest email blast.

The company has put out a call for "customers and partners (to) actively test and provide feedback on Windows Vista SP1 to help us prepare for its release in the second half of CY07 (calendar year 2007)."

Microsoft hasn't released details of exactly what changes will be wrought in Vista SP1, which has been assigned the codename 'Fiji' but some OS components which missed the RTM cut-off will almost certainly be rolled into the update.

One of the candidates for this better-late-than-never brigade would be the Windows PowerShell, previously Microsoft Shell -- a .NET-based command line shell with its own scripting language.

However, the Redmond clarion call declares that "regressions from Windows Vista and Windows XP, security, deployment blockers and other high impact issues as are the primary focus for the Service Pack."

So, yes, the still not-yet-released Vista has "high impact issues".

Testers will be enrolled in the Vista SP1 "Technology Adoption Program" and "must be willing to provide feedback and deploy pre-release builds into production environments."

In exchange, Microsoft promises they will have "an opportunity to influence product changes including the opportunity to work directly with product groups influencing their short term and long term goals".

Channels of communications back to the mother ship will include weekly LiveMeeting sessions, "onsite events and regular conference calls" with "24/7 production support for the Service Pack throughout the program."

There's also a clear desire to ensure that SP1 is rock sold. One of the goals for TAP testers will be to "validate the stability of Windows Vista SP1 through production deployments" says the email.

"It's important that customers deploy the Service Pack into production environments within 30 days of a milestone release. Issues will surface from the deployments as well as throughout the program as end users test its limits thought their day-to-day activities. The Windows TAP team will work with customers to identify and drive these issues."

If Vista SP1 scrapes in by December 2007 it will have been 11 months since the OS itself debuted -- the same length of time it took for Windows XP to get its first service pack. However, Microsoft is almost certainly aiming for a much earlier arrival, perhaps to overcome the reluctance among consumers and businesses alike to plunge headfirst into Vista. This is most often espoused in the conventional Windows wisdom which suggests waiting until Service Pack 1 ships.

So how do you get invited to sit at the cool kids' table with all the other TAP folk? This isn't a program for mere mortals. Microsoft suggests that interested users contact their" Technical Account Manager at Microsoft to get nominated".

The Chosen Ones will be expected to "deploy pre-release versions of Service Pack 1 into production environments at each major milestone (Beta, RC, RTM) within 30 days of the milestone release, actively provide feedback on all builds made available to them" and also "meet or exceed predetermined deployment count goals for each milestone."

Not so much Vista, but 3rd party apps. (4, Interesting)

Callaway (842055) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718754)

-Vmware still has yet to release a new VMWorkstation (6.0 is in beta) designed to run Vista as the host O/S
-Novell has yet to set a timetable for a Novell client capable of installing on Vista.
-AutoCad 2007 no timetable yet
-Lotus Notes client 7.01 (no Official support from IBM, though seems to work fine)
-Symantec Antivirus (need to upgrade to version 10.0)

Those are the biggies for our campus (that we've found so far....)

Volunteer for what? (1)

BillGatesLoveChild (1046184) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718770)

> Microsoft has ... has put out an email call for technical users to participate in testing Service Pack 1,

No thanks Bill. I'll wait for my degraded video and audio like everyone else.

I read the 'reasons' to get vista, and got stupid (0, Flamebait)

unity100 (970058) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718778)

"ui built for the era of video and photography"

JUST WHAT the hell does that mean ?!?!?!

"Image-based install"

god, WHAT is this ? im gonna make a critique, but i am speechless. WHAT is image based install ? and why is it good for us ? Were the installations of xp domino-based ? god, i cant establish relevancy - WHAT is that ?

"Up-to-date driver base and better driver handling on installation"

a driver base that will get old in the next 4 months with the coming of new graphics cards and mobos into the market. is that it ? so, it means that xp users were being left to fend for themselves until now ? and vista users will be so after they buy vista ?

"Desktop search and search folders built in"

what is a search folder ?

" Sleep mode that actually works. "

it already works under xp if you have an o.k. quality mobo ?!!

"Rock-solid laptop encryption"

anyone who is able to use encryption is already doing it for NO cost with free programs ?

"Better file navigation"

ehehehee. i read this, understood what the bloke is meaning there, and smiled. so just more shortcuts to display on left hand side eh ? great feature.

"Inbuilt undelete"

s/he who was afraid of deleting something by mistake was already using the recycling bin. SO ?

"9. DirectX10 OK, this isn't so much a benefit as your hand being forced: DirectX 10 will never be made for XP"

you just got that one right there, bloke, and this summarizes why there are no other features that microsoft needs to BULLY people into vista with the direct x 10 shit. they didnt need to put out a new directx version for a long time now, and just with the coming of vista suddenly a need for a new directx appears.

ill tell you what - we wont be playing games that force us to directx 10. im a gamer, not a moron. world of warcraft, age of conan are not forcing dx10 either, so, microsoft will have to shove it up their ...... or someone somewhere will just hack dx10 to work with xp and that will be all.

"10. Face it, you have no choice"

... no choice but to stupefy in the wake of my 10 reasons to get vista

Re:I read the 'reasons' to get vista, and got stup (1)

EvanED (569694) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718954)

I think you're trolling, so I wouldn't have replied except you already have at least one +1 moderation.

JUST WHAT the hell does that mean ?!?!?!

"I like buzzwords"? I dunno.

god, WHAT is this ? im gonna make a critique, but i am speechless. WHAT is image based install ? and why is it good for us ? Were the installations of xp domino-based ? god, i cant establish relevancy - WHAT is that ?

Did you RTFP (paragraph) or just the heading? I can't see exactly what it says, but I *do* remember that it says that it should be faster, and I just skimmed.

what is a search folder ?

I bet the paragraph under it went into more details. But in liu of that, a Google for "Vista search folder" leads to this description [microsoft.com]:
A Search Folder is simply a search that you save. Opening a Search Folder instantly runs that saved search, displaying up-to-date results immediately.


s/he who was afraid of deleting something by mistake was already using the recycling bin. SO ?

Again, RTFP. It's not just undelete, it sounds like a versioning filesystem. Thing CVS+NTFS. As I posted above, I have longed for a filesystem for this feature for some time, if it does what it sounds like.

Re:I read the 'reasons' to get vista, and got stup (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 7 years ago | (#17719022)

you by any chance are not assuming that it was too hard to read the paragraphs below the headlines do you ?

Re:I read the 'reasons' to get vista, and got stup (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17718978)

will just address some of your trolling, quite frankly the fact you were rated as interesting says it all for the /. community.

god, WHAT is this ? im gonna make a critique, but i am speechless. WHAT is image based install ? and why is it good for us ? Were the installations of xp domino-based ? god, i cant establish relevancy - WHAT is that ?

rather than slowly copy each file across to your system as it works out what you need it copies an image of the OS containing all the files, thus significantly increasing the speed of an install. nothing new here except that now windows can do it instead of needing 3rd party imaging software.

ehehehee. i read this, understood what the bloke is meaning there, and smiled. so just more shortcuts to display on left hand side eh ? great feature.

no, it allows you to actually click on any component of the path and navigate to that, so this is instead of having to have shortcuts on the display or having to step through the paths.

anyone who is able to use encryption is already doing it for NO cost with free programs ?


ahhhh so just because someone can use a free encryption program this is irrelevant? name one free program that easily allows you to encrypt your entire harddrive content including the OS and is easy to use?

s/he who was afraid of deleting something by mistake was already using the recycling bin. SO ?
this is just your lack of understanding, it is not just undelete of somethign you press delete on, it is undelete on stuff you overwrote, try recovering that document you overwrote from your recycling bin.

"9. DirectX10 OK, this isn't so much a benefit as your hand being forced: DirectX 10 will never be made for XP"
directX10 has a lot of changes that make utilising new graphics cards more efficient and allow for much better utilisation of CPU and graphics memory and GPU, if you really were a gamer as you stated this would be something you would be looking forward too as it increases a programmers abilities to deliver better games to you. but hey your a troll so no point in explaining that.

Re:I read the 'reasons' to get vista, and got stup (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 7 years ago | (#17719116)

rather than slowly copy each file across to your system as it works out what you need it copies an image of the OS containing all the files, thus significantly increasing the speed of an install. nothing new here except that now windows can do it instead of needing 3rd party imaging software.


So ? How is this useful and a fantastic new feature for the millions of users who get os'es installed by a techie and use it for over 1-1.5 years ? i dont think that vista requires regular reinstallations so this feature is useless for mainstream user ?

no, it allows you to actually click on any component of the path and navigate to that, so this is instead of having to have shortcuts on the display or having to step through the paths.


directory site navigation like linking ? this is some fantastic, exciting feature ? we already have shortcuts for what we often use and need swift access, so what use is this when browsing some deep folder once in a week or even month ?

ahhhh so just because someone can use a free encryption program this is irrelevant? name one free program that easily allows you to encrypt your entire harddrive content including the OS and is easy to use?


tell me one encryption system that wont take toll on system resources and tell me one techie that wont go nuts trying to tell an average joe why his/her computer slowing down like hell with encryption and why s/he cant "make it faster". is this something that can justify hundreds of dollars of new purchases both in terms of hardware and vista cost to boot ? free > easy in most situations, especially in mid $xxx range and over.

this is just your lack of understanding, it is not just undelete of somethign you press delete on, it is undelete on stuff you overwrote, try recovering that document you overwrote from your recycling bin.


you are meaning that something that is marked as deleted in filesystem and the space it occupied was overwritten by some other file, hence previously unrecoverable. then it is so that it will use a svn like system for it. actually this might be curse than a blessing, since even the registry file structure most often gets corrupted in even xp and causes many hard to detect errors ranging from driver issues resulting from the records to even more serious stuff. more stuff to be broken here that means ?

directX10 has a lot of changes that make utilising new graphics cards more efficient and allow for much better utilisation of CPU and graphics memory and GPU, if you really were a gamer as you stated this would be something you would be looking forward too as it increases a programmers abilities to deliver better games to you. but hey your a troll so no point in explaining that.


im sorry, but for these arguments here about dx10 and gaming, i will outright and flat out say you are totally wrong.

there are acceptable levels of gaming - NO gamer wants to unload around $3000 on hardware so that their vistaed new box will function as fast and acceptable as their previous xp box. any hardcore gamer knows that from some point on there are limits to what human perception can discern in terms of visuals, sound and any other input from the interface. it does not matter in a heated 20vs20 battle the orc you are facing has 1 degrees more smoothed out corners or not, even. and the current state of gaming art delivers more than what is needed.

and you should know that the phrase "better games" does not mean nothing to a hardcore gamer. it is undefinable and too obscure.

you are calling me a troll, but you are speaking like a microsoft salesman citing vague arguments ?

Re:I read the 'reasons' to get vista, and got stup (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17719040)

An image-based install is an installation that simply copies the disc image to the hard drive. No decompressing, no installing individual selected files, no .cab files, etc. The plus side is that it's faster. Another plus (though perhaps not 100% related) is that Vista will be able to be booted off a DVD, flash drive or anything else and theoretically run on any machine.

 

Image-based install (1)

elronxenu (117773) | more than 7 years ago | (#17719054)

Image-based install is where you install by copying a filesystem of already-installed code.

I built a linux install CD a few years ago, and most tasks were automated, it had to:

  1. Partition the disk
  2. Make some filesystems
  3. Untar the .tar.gz images from the CD onto the filesystems
  4. Configure LILO
  5. Reboot

Those 5 steps completed in under 5 minutes (I timed it) compared to half an hour or more using the debian installer and apt to install one package at a time.

My "source" for the filesystem images, what I called the "pristine copy" was a virtual machine under User-Mode Linux. Whenever I wanted to update my install CD I'd just boot it up, do "apt-get upgrade" and use the tools to build a new install CD.

Machines installed from the install CD were naturally upgraded using normal "apt-get upgrade". Image-based install only works for the initial installation.

Re:Image-based install (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 7 years ago | (#17719130)

well, in any case this is useful for techies installing regularly. no meaning for the average joe that uses an installed copy for at least 1.5 years

Check out the below - im horrified (4, Interesting)

unity100 (970058) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718828)

Even the below is single-handedly enough for deterring me away from vista :

5. Driver support -- Key hardware like video and sound is crippled at the moment -- while Nvidia is working furiously to get a stable driver for the 8800 out by the 30th, there's still no SLI support for any of the Nvidia range. And thanks to the removal of hardware accelerated 3D sound in Vista, Creative's popular DirectSound based EAX no longer works at all, muting this feature for just about all gaming titles on the market today. Creative is in the process of coding a layer for its drivers to translate EAX calls to the OpenAL API which is seperate from Vista, but going by past experience with Creative drivers we won't see these any time soon.

not only nvidia stuff, but eax too. horrible as i got a creative xtreme music card to listen to 500+ classic music pieces, not to mention quality gaming sound. what kind of lack of foresight is this on part of ms ?

"DRM -- And to a lesser degree TPM -- were made for the RIAAs and MPAAs of this world, and the even tighter integration of copy protection mechanisms and 'Windows Rights Management' into vista are nothing more than a liability to you, the user."

well, this was the main shit that vista was delayed a few years anyway. im happy with my current situation as it is.

"half the limit compared to XP for Home Basic and Premium on how many machines can connect to yours for sharing, printing and accessing the Internet;"

i can say that loads of small businesses in turkey will be yelling the hell outta ms representatives on this one.

Re:Check out the below - im horrified (1)

EvanED (569694) | more than 7 years ago | (#17719120)

Yeah, I am surprised how little driver support there is. No drivers for my Audigy. As of a couple months ago, no drivers for my SATA controller card. (I was going to install Vista RC1 on a spare partition, but it was on a SATA drive so no luck. No Vista for me.)

Migrate to GNU/Linux, not Vista (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17718842)

Our company did last year, cities of Vienna and Munich did, French parliament did, it should work out very nicely for you too. Our former XP users love KDE.

No need to put yourself through pains when you can improve security, save money and achieve a good deal of vendor independence all at the same time. Why support the Microsoft monopoly by paying ridiculous prices for bug ridden software with DRM restrictions, when you can run Free software on the industry standard (and thus inexpensive) hardware?

Knowing everything I know now, I only regret that we did not migrate to GNU/Linux sooner.

I don't what to say - aaaaaiiiiiiiii? (1)

gelfling (6534) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718874)

I do not care what they think might be fixed 6 months after they release it. Straight up I will not deploy it until it's more than 3 STD's complete. That means 99.4%. MS has some colossal balls to make something this shoddy and incomplete. I swear they WILL abandon the data center at this rate, by the end of 2008. In fact they should freeze the damn thing right now finish the code for 'significant impact issues' and delay the release another 6 months. What's the difference in another delay at this point?

Just STOP (0, Flamebait)

El Gruga (1029472) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718894)

buying this M$ crap. Why is there even a discussion? When are we going to learn that these guys have been hosing the worlds computer users for over 20 years - its time to Stop. Pen and Paper has a clear advantage over Windows. Bloody hell, my CAT could write better software. Probably. Use Linux, use OSX, use anything you can, but STOP with this Vista M$ crappy fuc*wit rubbish.

He didn't look very hard... (1)

Fulg (138866) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718900)

From TFA:
Simply stated there is no one button that will always bring you back up to the parent.
Uh? In Vista you can use Alt-Up (yeah, same as OSX) to go to the parent of an open folder. He must be thinking of XP with its retarded Back/Forward only navigation.

Now when I want a simple search for any file that contains the string 'IntelliAdmin' I can't do it.
Hmm, no. Perhaps he missed the "Advanced Search" drop down? The MS UI monkey hid it well, but it's there in his screenshot... (It still ignores unknown formats though, like XP SP2 does)

Still, he makes some good points. There are many UI "regressions" in Vista, and for some things productivity drops down. For example it takes ages to delete a bunch of files now, apparently because of the new progress bar... ("computing time remaining" shouldn't take 10 seconds for three files!)

I sincerely hope SP1 addresses these issues, because they are a nuisance...

Re:He didn't look very hard... (1)

EvanED (569694) | more than 7 years ago | (#17719154)

He must be thinking of XP with its retarded Back/Forward only navigation.

What?

Are you in XP now? Open a file dialog. Look at the pull-down menu at the top center that says where you are. Look just to the right. The first button is back. The second is up a folder. In explorer, the third button (just to the right of forward) is up a folder. Did you miss those?

(This is XP without any service packs. (It's a very old laptop without a NIC let alone connection, and I'm in Linux now so can't check.) It's possible the buttons moved in SP2, but I doubt it. I know they didn't disappear, because I use them regularily.)

what, no QA dept (2, Insightful)

b17bmbr (608864) | more than 7 years ago | (#17718948)

mabe this is a stupid question, but why microsoft is already working on SP1 for vista? I mean, don't they have a QA department, don't they have people to test the thing? Shouldn't an OS be somewhat working and already have dealt with security issues before they launch it on the public. what makes this so onerous is that you can't get computers with XP, or if you can now, you won't be able to in the near future. they might criticize OSS, but at least a .9 release is a .9. what the hell, I run OS X.

Re:what, no QA dept (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17719108)

Er, what exactly would you expect them to do after they release it? Spend 6 months playing Quake?

Re:what, no QA dept (1)

jskiff (746548) | more than 7 years ago | (#17719156)

Have you ever worked on a commercial software product? Have you ever released a product that has no bugs?

At the company I work for, we always plan on releasing a patch 3-6 months after a major release. It is simply unrealistic to assume that the product is going to work perfectly with no flaws.

10 reasons why (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17719010)

1. UI built for the era of video and digital photography.

When you open a folder of photos, they come up as they'd appear in Google Picasa or Apple iPhoto.

So where's the reason not to buy Apple?

2. Image-based install

PC enthusiasts spend a lot of time installing and reinstalling Windows for their own and other pe ople's PCs.

Windows enthusiasts do. But is ease of install a reason to buy? Surely there has to be something more.

3. Up-to-date driver base and better driver handling on installation Enjoy the just-baked driverbase while it lasts (19,500 drivers large).

Er, I'm a slackware user. In comparison, getting a driver for Windows has *never* been a problem.

4. Desktop search and search folders built in

??? Doesn't every OS have a find command or keep a database of current files? How is this different from XP?

5. Sleep mode that actually works.

Ah, the number five reason: They fixed a bug.

6. Rock-solid laptop encryption

Already have it in Linux. HD encryption has been around for years.

7. Better file navigation

Vista now has some time-saving features like favourite folders displayed in the left column of every Explorer window, as well as "breadcrumbed" folder lists allowing you to quickly jump backward and forward through a path. Sure, these should have been put into Windows years ago, but at least they're here now.

This is plain silly. How you display files should not be a reason to buy a whole new OS?

8. Inbuilt undelete

Or, depending on how you look at it, inbuilt rolling backup.

All undelete means is that instead of doing remove you do move. Nothing exciting about that.

9. DirectX10

You probably have me there because I don't know what it is.

10. Face it, you have no choice

Think I'll stick with slackware. Did I tell you the top ten reasons you should get slack-11? Really there's no reason, stick with 10 and upgrade your libraries.

Re:10 reasons why (1)

EvanED (569694) | more than 7 years ago | (#17719080)

??? Doesn't every OS have a find command or keep a database of current files? How is this different from XP?

Dunno what's different with the desktop search, but the search folders are a neat idea; basically they are saved searches I guess displayed like a folder. You go into one, you see what the results would be if you did the search again right then.

It's somewhat similar to the Opera email client's views or whatever they call them (it's been a while since I used it). I would set up a view that would show all emails with a particular subject, but rather than have a filter that moved them there, they would just show up.

I doubt it's unique to Vista, but it's still a neat idea.

All undelete means is that instead of doing remove you do move. Nothing exciting about that.

The rest of the paragraph on this one is less misleading than the title... it's not so much undelete as versioning. Think NTFS+CVS. And, IMO, this is exciting; I've been wanting a file system that did that for a long time. No clue if Vista does quite what I want, but we'll see sometime.

Vista: perfect (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17719084)

Well, not as an OS. You see, with a fairly different UI and most familiar things gone, you'll have to re-train people to use it.

Can someone remind me of the top few reasons not to switch to linux and other free software? Did someone say that there is a hidden cost in re-training people?

Another reason is software, much of which is windows exclusive.

Both these problems are suddenly overcome: re-training is not an additional cost for linux during this update since it is shared with Vista. Since many applications will have to be re-written anyway, companies with their own software only for windows.... don't really have that reason for choosing vista.

So if your software has to be re-written and your employees trained to a new UI either way, which are you going to pick... $400 Vista+office2007 or $0 (insert favorite flavor of Linux)+(favorite free/open source office suite).

It just seems to me that the (new to windows) disadvantages of Vista are the same as switching to Linux... and of course then you skip the old disadvantages of windows (stability, security, cost, more). If you want out of vender lock-in, this is the year.
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