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Japanese Stores Lowering PS3 Prices

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the almost-have-to-at-some-point dept.

PlayStation (Games) 189

Kotaku is reporting that the 20GB PS3 is down by 20% the the Akihibara district of Tokyo. Reports from both here and in Japan would seem to indicate that PlayStation 3s are sitting on shelves, as gamers wait for price drops or new games. The Tokyo merchants are anxious, it seems, and ready to get their consoles out the door. From the article: "The 20GB version originally books at 49,980 yen (US $412), but is being offered for 39,980 yen ($329) in a sale ending February. The shop is knocking a flat 10,000 yen ($82) right now. Japanese bulletin board 2chan reports that this at other Don Quijotes as well. It's interesting to check out the PS3 vibe at 2chan; Reasons for not buying go from 'there are no games I want' to 'video stores don't rent Blu-ray movies.' Well, not yet that is."

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Anyone know about the dynamics of retail/mfg? (1, Interesting)

UbuntuDupe (970646) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726040)

I heard that for the initial launch of a product, the manufacturer bears part of the risk by promising to buy back some number of unsold units. Is there any truth to this at all? And if so, wouldn't a retailer exercise these options before taking a loss like that?

Oh, I almost forgot: here's my reaction to the story:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! oh man.... HAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAH!!!! ahh....

(See also: Rush Limbaugh drug arrest.)

Re:Anyone know about the dynamics of retail/mfg? (2, Informative)

Thansal (999464) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726208)

Well, if Sony is willing to buy back unsold stock (I have never seen this idea in print before, tohugh I have heard it once or twice), they would probably only buy back at the wholesale value, aka the stores still take a hit (Shipping, storage, etc). However if the stores can move it a little bit above wholesale value, then they have a better chance of being in the black.

Re:Anyone know about the dynamics of retail/mfg? (2, Interesting)

Fulg (138866) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727804)

Well, if Sony is willing to buy back unsold stock (I have never seen this idea in print before, tohugh I have heard it once or twice)
It's been a long time since I worked in the retail channel, but generally the stores do business with distributors, not with the manufacturer directly (eg Sony). Distributors will "buy back" unsold inventory and sell it to other stores. If no stores want said inventory, only then does it go back to the manufacturer. This applies to (unopened) software as well.

Same with stores that exchange defective merchandise, the distributor is the one who deals with sending stuff back to the manufacturer.

I'm sure stores aren't too concerned with the "money sitting on the shelves" with unsold PS3s, the major concern is the shelf space itself as it could have been filled with something that sells instead.

Ah, schadenfraude (3, Insightful)

spun (1352) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726318)

Leave it to the Germans to come up with a word for "Pleasure taken in witnessing the deserved suffering of others." Most of us are genetically programmed to find fairness and justice pleasurable. When someone gets away with something unjust or unfair, it hurts us a little. Conversely, when their uppance comes, we get a little thrill of pleasure. This isn't actually a bad thing.

Re:Ah, schadenfraude (2, Insightful)

badboy_tw2002 (524611) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726374)

I'm sorry, how is Sony making a video game console and selling it for a high price unfair or unjust to you?

Re:Ah, schadenfraude (2, Insightful)

spun (1352) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726450)

It's not. Them fucking over loyal customers, lying, acting arrogantly and still expecting us to buy their overpriced console is unfair. That's why it feels good to learn that people aren't buying.

Of course, this all hinges on whether you think the things Sony did were unfair. One person's schadenfraude is another person's callous mockery.

Re:Ah, schadenfraude (3, Insightful)

badboy_tw2002 (524611) | more than 7 years ago | (#17728728)

I guess it is someone's opinion whether they feel screwed over, but I still fail to see how Sony setting the price high on their next console is screwing over previous customers. Its not like they're disabling your PS2s and _making_ you buy their expensive new console to play your old games. People with monopolies do screw you over with pricing - I'd definately see your point if you were talking about Microsoft losing out to Linux or something, but at the point where you can say "No thanks, I'll get a Wii or 360 or upgrade my PC for the newest and greatest games" I don't see how they've treated you unfairly. But to each his own I guess.

Re:Ah, schadenfraude (1)

spun (1352) | more than 7 years ago | (#17728864)

No one is saying it is unfair for them to TRY to get whatever they want from us. As I said, it's the rootkit, the DRM, lik-sang, etc., et multiple cetera that make people dislike Sony. Thus, when Sony fails people are happy. People ARE saying, "No thanks, I'll get a Wii or 360 or upgrade my PC for the newest and greatest games" and not only do they feel they've made a betetr choice, they feel they are doing their part to snub a prickish company. At least that's how I see it.

Re:Ah, schadenfraude (1)

Lemmy Caution (8378) | more than 7 years ago | (#17728966)

Well, I wouldn't call it "unfair." I'd call it "poor product design" or "flawed market analysis." Us not being able to afford Playstation 3s hurts them much more than it hurts us.

Re:Ah, schadenfraude (1)

Grey Ninja (739021) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726460)

It's not the price. It's all the bad things that Sony has done. They have been arrogant as hell the whole time with the PS3. They've insulted the fans, and now the fans are enjoying watching them take a beating.

Re:Ah, schadenfraude (1)

(A)*(B)!0_- (888552) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727412)

1) Driving lik-sang.com out of business
2) Installing a rootkit on customer's computers

Re:Ah, schadenfraude (1)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 7 years ago | (#17728646)

It's unfair for executives to make -- for lack of a better word -- "bonehead" decisions for many reasons:

1) Regular employees who through no fault of their own will be laid off when time comes to trim back after this craptastrophe

2) Older/retired founders groaning in exasperation and wondering "wtf is this shit!!!11"

3) Customers and fans who are deprived the potential of at least a whole generation.

For the record (1)

Knuckles (8964) | more than 7 years ago | (#17728822)

Schadenfreude

Yeah the discussion probably went something like.. (4, Funny)

The MAZZTer (911996) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726496)

Stores: Hey, will you guys buy back X number of unsold units?

Sony: Pfft! We're SONY. Our systems sell like hotcakes! You won't NEED to sell any back to us!

Stores: Oh ok.

Re:Anyone know about the dynamics of retail/mfg? (5, Informative)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727256)

I heard that for the initial launch of a product, the manufacturer bears part of the risk by promising to buy back some number of unsold units. Is there any truth to this at all?

It depends upon the agreement between the manufacturer and retailer. In the 1980's this practice was uncommon in the video game sector, and resulted in the video game crash of '83/'84. When Nintendo introduced the NES, they promised to purchase unsold stock back from the retailers as a method of reassuring them.

So... it sort of depends. I honestly wouldn't be surprised either way. With the Playstation 2 having sold well over 100 million units, I imagine the retailers weren't too concerned. Of course, we're technically talking about the Japanese market were American retail policies don't apply. So most likely, the store is on the hook to get rid of them.

20GB don't matter too much (5, Informative)

fistfullast33l (819270) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726122)

Bidding on the 20GB on Ebay dropped off first as well - why would buy the 20GB when for $100 more you get a 60GB with the wireless, card readers, and the extra disk space? A lot of the early adopters probably had a PSP as well, which really doesn't talk to the 20GB at all. So all in all, while this is something to note, I doubt you'll see this in the US any time soon.

Re:20GB don't matter too much (1)

Volante3192 (953645) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726434)

why would buy the 20GB when for $100 more you get a 60GB with the wireless, card readers, and the extra disk space?

There's a number of people who plan to buy the PS3 for the sole reason that it's a cheap Blu-Ray player (I frequent an AV forum as well as this). For them, that extra $100 represents 3 BD movies.

It also probably makes Sony happier than someone who gets the 60GB, Resistance and spends every day in multiplayer.

Re:20GB don't matter too much (5, Informative)

CK2004PA (827615) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726616)

Actually, the PS3 isn't selling in the US either. And its not because Sony can meet demand, its because demand isn't there. Sony released this news and MarketWatch carried it on 1/16 , Slashdot just hasn't carried it yet.
http://www.vgcharts.org/news.php?id=58 [vgcharts.org]

However, he continued, "The PlayStation brand doesn't appear to be helping the PS3. If NPD's numbers are correct, there are over 300K PS3s on retail shelves. That is not good for a console launch of only a million and it's not good for publishers with PS3 software."

Would you like some nails for your coffin?

Re:20GB don't matter too much (1)

CK2004PA (827615) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726704)

I hate to reply twice, but to further refute your point, it is happening in the US but in a slightly different manner. Gamestop & EBGames announced $100 off the PS3 if you turn in your PS2. Apparently people bought, and continue to buy, the Wii, 360, and PS2, just not the PS3 or its sister console, the Dreamcast.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/13/deal-or-no-deal- 100-off-ps3-by-giving-up-ps2/ [joystiq.com]

Re:20GB don't matter too much (4, Informative)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727114)

Apparently people bought, and continue to buy, the Wii, 360, and PS2, just not the PS3 or its sister console, the Dreamcast.
Hey! Don't insult the Dreamcast! Not only it had many more launch titles (18) than the PS3 (5), it had far BETTER ones too... the PS3 has nothing revolutionary like Sonic Adventure and Soul Calibur were back in 99.

Re:20GB don't matter too much (2, Funny)

nomadic (141991) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727506)

Agreed!

The Dreamcast was the lightsaber of consoles; a more elegant console for a more civilized age.

Re:20GB don't matter too much (3, Funny)

spun (1352) | more than 7 years ago | (#17728958)

Yeah, but hokey religions and ancient consoles are no match for a good blaster.

Re:20GB don't matter too much (1)

wandazulu (265281) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727984)

You hit upon something here...the Dreamcast really was a *revolutionary* product. It had a modem and then a NIC before any other console, it had a memory card that doubled as a super mini game system, and it had a wide selection of games that looked awesome (Soul Calibur) and had quirky but fun gameplay (Jet Set Radio, Space Channel 5, etc.).

I didn't have an original Playstation (was a N64 user) so I wasn't looking forward to the PS2, and when it came out it didn't have the cool stuff that the Dreamcast had (Maraccas as a game controller, anyone?) and its original game lineup looked crummy (I played TTT and thought it was a pixelated mess and it kind of ruined the whole Tekken franchise for me). What got me was all the "matter of fact" statements that while the Dreamcast was nice, the PS2 will simply blow it away. Well, yes, it did, but only with an installed base upgrading and getting a DVD player. If the DC had used DVDs, I think they would have had a much better fight.

So the PS3 is here and it's basically a warmed-over PS2. New disc technology and new graphics technology...both just like the PS2, and they finally wised up to the reality of the Internet and added connectivity. I may get one to play Gran Turismo 5, but it'll be selling for $199 or less by the time I do.

Re:20GB don't matter too much (1)

ROBOKATZ (211768) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727752)

They also give $50 off a Wii when you trade in your GameCube. I guess by your logic people are still buying the GameCube but not the Wii.

Re:20GB don't matter too much (1)

CK2004PA (827615) | more than 7 years ago | (#17728094)

They also give $50 off a Wii when you trade in your GameCube. I guess by your logic people are still buying the GameCube but not the Wii.


Nice strawman Sony fanboi! Actually, they used to give you $50 for your PS2, but upped it to $100 if you bought a PS3 also during your tradein. You see, they are losing money on the PS3, bigtime, and want to get rid of it "somehow".

Re:20GB don't matter too much (1)

Blackforge (8018) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727298)

Well I can trade in my old PS2 to make the cost of the 20GB a lot easier to swallow ($399).

If I ever decide I want to go wireless draft N and want to stream HD, then wireless G is less desireable so that makes the internal wireless moot for me. I currently have 3 WRT54GS in WDS mode using DD-WRT. One of them services my living room for Tivos, Xbox 360, etc.

Built in card reader? Eh... I'm not sure whats stopping you from using an external one. A lot of the card readers have been free after rebate, so not too important.

Also, I can upgrade the hard drive to an internal 2.5" 120GB 5400RPM 8MB Cache drive: $100 shipped. I wouldn't feel as good about having a 60GB drive laying around as I would a 20GB.

But of course everyone has different needs.

Re:20GB don't matter too much (1)

Jesterboy (106813) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727382)

Well, I believe it may have something to do with the ability to upgrade the HDD [gamersreports.com] ; that $100 could easily buy you a 120GB hard drive, if you're willing to forego the features you mentioned.

I'm not really sure what kind of purpose this would serve at the moment, but maybe people are hoping that the PS3 will soon be hacked like the PSP was...? ^_^

Other ways to get rid of them (1)

MikeRT (947531) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726156)

Offer them up as free gifts for giving $1 to the Salvation Army. Look at a PS3 game with slight interest, get one free. Buy a Wii or XBox 360, get a PS3 for free.

The PS3 Has No Games (5, Insightful)

miyako (632510) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726180)

I think that the price doesn't have quite as much to do with the (lack of) adoption of the PS3 as people seem to think. The biggest problem seems to be that the system doesn't have any friggen games worth a crap.
I have a PS3, and I only have 3 games for it (Resistance: Fall of Man, Marvel Ultimate Alliance, Genji:Days of the Blade), and two of them are absolute and utter crap (Marvel Ultimate Alliance, Genji:Days of the Blade), and one of those isn't even an exclusive (Marvel Ultimate Alliance). Compared to the Wii, which has been getting great games at a fairly good clip (Zelda, Elebits, Wario Ware, Metal Slug Anthology, Super Monkey Ball) or the 360, which has had a year to get some good games.(Kameo, Oblivion, Dead Rising, Gears of War- all system sellers)
I would like to see the PS3 do well (after spending that much money on it, I would say I have a vested interest) - but c'mon sony, not many people are going to buy these things just to be able to install Linux on it!

Re:The PS3 Has No Games (1)

Rycross (836649) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726336)

Guess that Sony exec was wrong when he said people would buy them even without games.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games (1)

Megane (129182) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726656)

When I failed to get a Wii this Sunday (I esentially bet on the wrong horse), I found someone who was interested in a PS3 without games. He worked for IBM and wanted something that would let him play around with the Cell processor.

I think the problem is that he represents a very small part of the market, whereas Nintendo is bringing in new gamers with Wii Sports. Now if they could just make enough of them, maybe I could have one too.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games (2, Insightful)

miyako (632510) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726802)

There are people who are interested in the PS3 as a (relatively) cheap development platform. The primary reason that I got one was to be able to play around with the Cell processor (Of course, I also quite enjoy console games). I know a few other people who got one for the same reason.
The problem is, as you said, it's a miniscule fraction of the market. These people don't help sony out at all (they take a loss on the system, and never recoup it in selling games/bluray movies) and it doesn't help the game publishers(it inflates the potential customer base. There are X ps3s in the wild, but only Y% of people who own PS3s will actually buy games).

Re:The PS3 Has No Games (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17727284)

Cheap dev. platform? I guess. The $400 PC I got from Fry's works plenty well. I just had to add some more ram but I had that laying around. I'm sure the PS3 has that same problem except you can't exactly add any.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games (1)

miyako (632510) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727360)

I should have specified, as a cheap development/testing platform for the Cell processor.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games (1)

Manmademan (952354) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726376)

to be fair, the 360 didn't really have much to write home about 3 months after launch and is still performing worse than the original Xbox in japan. IIRC a good chunk of the launch games were derided for looking exactly like Xbox games.

Even the titles you listed for the Wii aren't really that impressive- Zelda is a gamecube port of a series that doesn't sell very well in japan (it's currently sold only about 300k copies), metal slug is a collection of older games ported from the Neo Geo, Super Monkey ball is available for almost every system out there, and Elebits has been reviewed pretty poorly across the board. the only really original standout game for the system is Wario Ware.

Launch titles are overrated in terms of importance. the DC had without a doubt the best titles available at launch but performed the poorest last gen, while the Ps2's anemic launch led it to market dominance.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games (4, Insightful)

miyako (632510) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726654)

The thing is, the ps3 isn't competing against what the 360 had 3 months after its launch, it's competing against what the 360 has available right now.
Maybe the games I listed aren't doing great in japan, but the Wii seems to be pretty popular in japan as well as in the US, so something must have people there buying it (they have better virtual console choices than the US, so maybe that's it)
The PS3 has an anoerxic game library, and all of the big name titles that were system sellers for the PS2 are a year or two away, or no longer exclusive (Gamespot has rumors that MGS4 will be out on the 360).
Of course, early adopters are often willing to buy a console on the promise of what will eventually be available (I did)- but there is a large secondary market to consider. There are a lot of people who like games, and are interesting in getting a next gen system, but will make decisions based largely on their experiences playing the systems at their friends houses. When the PS3 doesn't have any games to offer up those experiences, then people will focus on the 360 or wii, which they have played good games on.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games (0, Troll)

Manmademan (952354) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726970)

Regarding Japan- the Ps3 isn't competing against the 360 at all. It's essentially dead there. did you miss my comment concerning how the 360 is performing worse than the original Xbox there, and THAT console was considered a massive failure?

The Ps3 is competing against the Wii, and to a lesser extent, the DS which is a runaway success and may very well outsell all other platforms there.

Both the Ps3 and the Wii have anemic launch software IN JAPAN. There are no clear system sellers, and both are selling on potential. Hell, even in the US the only games anyone is talking about are Zelda (which again, is a gamecube port) and Wii sports, which comes free with the system.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games (1)

miyako (632510) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727088)

I haven't kept up extensively with what's available in japan, so I can't argue (except for calling Zelda a port, which I'm not sure is entirely true. It started out as a gamecube game, but was developed for a long time as a Wii game, and there are certainly some elements that I imagine were difficult to do on the GC version. If anything it's a dual platform game, where both platforms happen to be nintendo systems). Either way, I still seem to remember hearing that the 360 was picking up steam (although going from selling 1 console a month to 5 would be a 500% increase, and the console would still be effectively dead- so I guess that doesn't mean much).

Re:The PS3 Has No Games (2, Insightful)

MeanderingMind (884641) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727452)

Both the Ps3 and the Wii have anemic launch software IN JAPAN. There are no clear system sellers, and both are selling on potential.


http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=7414 [gamesarefun.com]

There are two Wii games, Sports and Play, in the top ten software sales last week in Japan. Both are approaching 800k. Additionally, there are another four in the top thirty.

For a system with an install base of somewhere between 1 million and 1.5 million, rank higher than games coming out for the insanely popular DS (with well over 10 million in Japan) and the old standby PS2 is incredible. In face, Dragon Quest is the biggest name in RPGs over there, and even though it came out more recently than Wii Sports the latter title is still the #1 seller from last week.

I think that's hardly anemic, especially with a slew of new titles coming out sooner rather than later. If you don't like what the Wii offers now, there's still plenty coming in a reasonable amount of time. PS3 owners are still looking at more than 6 months for most of their interesting titles, many of which were supposed to be coming at launch.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games (2, Interesting)

shawngarringer (906569) | more than 7 years ago | (#17728072)

I was in Japan a few weeks ago, and there were PLENTY of PS3s. Wii's and DS Lites were in short supply.

BIC Camera in Tokyo: http://gallery.planetcr.com/gallery2/v/japan/Elect ric+City/S5000470.JPG.html [planetcr.com] (PS3 in Stock, Wii and DS Sold Out!)

Also, heres the XBox 360 section: http://gallery.planetcr.com/gallery2/v/japan/nagoy a/S5000139.JPG.html [planetcr.com]

Compare that to the Wii section: http://gallery.planetcr.com/gallery2/v/japan/nagoy a/S5000141.JPG.html [planetcr.com]

Any more questions over whats more popular there?

Re:The PS3 Has No Games (0, Troll)

Manmademan (952354) | more than 7 years ago | (#17728172)

Any more questions over whats more popular there?
Leave it to internet fanboys to rush to the defense of their favorite system without actually reading comments. No one is disputing the Wii is outselling everything at this point. The Wii and DS are selling at outstanding rates at the moment. The QUESTION is does launch software determine the popularity of a system. Looking at the success of the DS, the Wii (so far) and the PS2, the answer is clearly No.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games (1)

PeelBoy (34769) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727582)

I doubt MGS4 will come out for the 360. A year or so ago the I remember the creator (forget his name) saying something about wanting to bring MG (not sure if he was talking about a new MG game, a port or what) to the Wii but it won't or might not happen because of contractual reasons.

I could be wrong though and I'm not sure if it covers future versions or spin offs but I'm pretty sure that MGS4 is bound by contract and will remain a Sony exclusive unless they give the go ahead or he pulls something off or something.

I know Snake will be in the new Smash Bros so I guess that is a good sign. It's probably just MGS4 he's talking about.

Anyway I think he's more interested in the Wii than the 360. I know the games always look nice but he doesn't seem that interested in the raw power compared to what he can do with the Wii.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games (1)

MeanderingMind (884641) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727304)

Regarding Zelda, 352k (using vgcharts.org) is 28% of all Japanese Wii owners. That seems rather respectable.

However, you're also neglecting that there is a Gamecube version which many players (especially die-hard lefties) may have opted for. This is not listed on vgcharts, and I could not find a figure elsewhere.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 7 years ago | (#17728326)

Wii Sports is pretty high in the sales charts (Wii Play as well but that doesn't count since it's a 10€ game with a 40€ controller). It's sold separately in Japan but still sells to almost all Wii owners.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games (1)

bk_veggie (807894) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726820)

So, the fact you don't like the gameplay in M:UA makes it utter crap?

My wife and I are having a blast brawling through this one on the wii. It's a mindless 2 button arcade style masher, and does exactly as it promises.

It's okay not to like something, but it's moronic to say it's crap, especially when the evidence points otherwise:

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/ps3/marv elultimatealliance

Re:The PS3 Has No Games (1)

miyako (632510) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726980)

fair enough, apparently quite a few people have enjoyed the game. Personally, I found it tedious. The levels all look the same, and are almost fractal-like in their repetition. Plus all the heroes seem to play exactly the same as well. It basically seems like the game could be completed using a naive path-finding algorithm and someone tapping "x" repeatedly for a few hours.
It may or may not be crap, and certainly some people enjoy it, but it's defintely not a system seller, and certainly not a game that I can see large swaths of PS3 owners congregating outside of gamestop to buy.

Re:The PS3 Has No Games (1)

MemoryDragon (544441) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727902)

Yes the Wii has a steady stream of games coming out, although I would prefer to see more epic games along the lines of Zelda, but it has its merits, regarding new games and especially wii only exclusives, or best played on a wii (rayman raving rabbits for instance probably works only on a wii really well), guess it pays off that Wii games are known territory, cheap to produce and leave interesting experimental fields to the devs. While many of them currently try to figure out to get anything up and running on a ps3...

Holy shit (1)

LordVader717 (888547) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726204)

Wow, that's how much I paid for my Wii in Europe.

Start of a trend? (1)

Hennell (1005107) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726250)

I wonder if this will get Sony thinking at all. Technically they won't make a difference in profit from stores loweing prices, but if all shops start doing that and refusing new ones, its got to be bad news.

However Sony saying they won't lower prices [joystiq.com] means the only way you'll get a reduction any time soon is shops acting independently.

Yes, price dropping rapidly. (4, Insightful)

Animats (122034) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726294)

Yes, check out eBay prices. The 20GB units are now selling below retail.

Remember, price is not what the seller is asking. The price is what a willing buyer will pay a willing seller. When it won't sell, the asking price isn't a real price. eBay makes this so obvious, but it's also true in retail; if there's a huge stack of unsold stuff, the price is going to drop.

Re:Yes, price dropping rapidly. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17726488)

By the same token, the listings for my city (Montreal, Canada) on craigslist haven't had many PS3s for sale since people started selling them at cost. But people are still selling Wiis for $100 to $130 more than the store price.

Re:Yes, price dropping rapidly. (1)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 7 years ago | (#17728018)

But people are still selling Wiis for $100 to $130 more than the store price.

This is still true in Canada (most of the eBay listings seem to be selling to Canadian buyers too), but in the US, the Wii shortage is pretty much over. For example, the local Target near me has had between 3 and 6 of them in stock the last three times I've been in there.

Re:Yes, price dropping rapidly. (1)

PeelBoy (34769) | more than 7 years ago | (#17728394)

huh Wii shortage over in the US? Not even close. I'm sure there are some out there in some cities but they aren't easy to find in most of the US.

Didn't you read any of the stories from this weekend about all the people lining up at stores to get Wiis? Tons of people lined up to get a Wii last sunday (all over the US).

They sold out FAST here in my town. I heard of some stores having in the 40 to 60+ people lining up for 20 or so Wiis.

If you got Wiis near you grab me one please? I still can't freaking find one :(

Re:Yes, price dropping rapidly. (1)

Kamots (321174) | more than 7 years ago | (#17728614)

Where're you at? Cause in my part of the US (DFW area in Texas) it's still nigh impossible to find a Wii. Me and a couple other coworkers have all been trying for a couple weeks now with no luck.

Re:Yes, price dropping rapidly. (1)

AvitarX (172628) | more than 7 years ago | (#17728960)

Where I am Target had held the Wii for over a week and a half (as in no new ones coming in) and then sold them all last Sunday.

They had 42 in on that Sunday and all of them were accounted for before opening at 8:00 am (though only minutes before).

Best Buy, and Circuit City both had done the same thing, when I drove by at 8:30 both had long lines hours before opening (11 and 10).

So at least in my area the Wii is still in very short supply.

Re:Yes, price dropping rapidly. (1)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 7 years ago | (#17729106)

Where I am Target had held the Wii for over a week and a half (as in no new ones coming in) and then sold them all last Sunday.

Why do stores do that? How does it benefit them at all?

The Target in my area doesn't seem to do that... Of course, they seem to have a steady supply on the shelf, so maybe they don't feel the need.

I live in the sticks, BTW... My local Target is in Leominster, MA. Closer to the city the situation may be different.

Racism!!!!!!! (1)

Rendo (918276) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726378)

Such blatant racism. Not all Asians are short. But we all know most asians are very intelligent. You really think lowering the price to their eye level will make them buy it?

wow (2, Insightful)

joe 155 (937621) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726688)

$329 is cheap, that is pretty much the same as what a wii costs here (in the UK a wii is £179), if only I could get one imported here at that price it might be a cheap way of getting a blu-ray player (and of screwing quite a bit of money out of sony in the process) but they don't seem to like the idea of consumers being able to use the free market to their advantage.

As I understand it though Sony must be losing about $100-200 on each one of these... I think that they might have made some mistakes

Don Quijote? (1)

RyoShin (610051) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726714)

Japanese bulletin board 2chan reports that this at other Don Quijotes as well.
The fictional character who attacks windmills now owns a number of Japanese video game stores?

I'll be damned, that guy gets around. Maybe he heard about Godzilla...

Re:Don Quijote? (5, Funny)

kumanopuusan (698669) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727960)

Don Quihote is a discount store here in Japan [donki.com] . Understandably their stores have a windmill theme, but for some reason the Don himself has been turned into a penguin.

Re:Don Quijote? (1)

RyoShin (610051) | more than 7 years ago | (#17728408)

This is quite possibly the most hilarious thing I've heard all day.

And I've been reading the DailyWTF archives.

Thank you for that. The mental image of a penguin attacking windmills will stay with me for days to come.

Re:Don Quijote? (1)

MoriaOrc (822758) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727982)

It's actually a super market with a tendency towards stocking cheaper stuff. Think a really big "everything's a dollar" store (except not literally).

2ch, not 2chan (2, Interesting)

Mprx (82435) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726738)

The article references http://2-ch.net/ [2-ch.net] but calls it http://2chan.net/ [2chan.net] . 2ch is text only and more popular, 2chan has images. Often people say 2chan when they mean 2ch, but they are two different websites.

Re:2ch, not 2chan (1)

Mprx (82435) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726772)

That should have been http://2ch.net/ [2ch.net] , not 2-ch

Re:2ch, not 2chan (3, Informative)

Goaway (82658) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727120)

To nitpick your nitpick, if a japanese person says "2chan", it is obvious that he is referring to 2channel. 2chan.net is always called "Futaba Channel". The confusion only exists among western users.

US Retail price drops? (3, Interesting)

EveryNickIsTaken (1054794) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726766)

I wouldn't be completely surprised if US retailers follow suit in order to get rid of inventory. A relative of mine is an electronics dept Mgr. at a Target. Apparently, they'll often get a shipment of 8-12 PS3's in, and that will satisfy the demand for 2-3 weeks. Also, he's told me that clueless people are STILL coming in, seeing the stock, and buying them to put on e-bay. Of course, that's probably why they get at least one unit returned every week.

Re:US Retail price drops? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17726956)

Correct me if I'm wrong...that means ebay is the only winner due to profits from listing products regardless if product is sold or not.

Supply still spotty (1)

DogDude (805747) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727098)

I've got $600 bucks burning a hole in my pocket because I STILL can't get my hands on a PS3 in my area! There's definitely not a surplus of these things yet.

Re:Supply still spotty (1)

EveryNickIsTaken (1054794) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727232)

Where are you located at, and how hard have you been looking?

Re:Supply still spotty (1)

RockClimbingFool (692426) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727374)

There are lots of PS3's available in Houston, TX. Also, I went to Tuscon this past weekend, and there was plenty to be had there as well.

Re:Supply still spotty (1)

MeanderingMind (884641) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727492)

Things are similar in the Dallas area. My coworkers and I noticed stacks of the things lying around at various retailers when we picked up our copies of WoW:BC.

Re:Supply still spotty (1)

_Hiro_ (151911) | more than 7 years ago | (#17728418)

Supposedly (As told to me by a friend, who heard from his co-worker, so apply appropriate amounts of salt...), the Best Buy in Canton, OH had a half-pallet (Think waist-high) of PS3's sitting doing nothing last week.

Not sure if they've sold through by now or not, but that's an awful lot of units to be sitting around.

I'll have to peek in the Electronics department at K-Mart on the way home tonight...

Re:Supply still spotty (1)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727420)

Obviously, you're not trying very hard.

Merry Christmas:

http://www.ebgames.com/productmerch.asp?groupid=63 5 [ebgames.com]

Both the 60 GB and 20 GB are available, unbundled. Just pay shipping. Alternatively, put your zip code in and see if any local stores have some. According to their site, just about every Gamestop in my area has them.

Re:Supply still spotty (1)

MoriaOrc (822758) | more than 7 years ago | (#17728150)

I'll give the grandparent one thing, there are places where they aren't everywhere yet. For example, try my zip code (92656) on the ebgames store list and you have to go 22 miles before you get a store that has any in stock for the 60GB model [gamestop.com] , or 10 miles for the 20GB [gamestop.com] . The drive for the 20GB isn't that bad, but it'd be a pretty dedicated person who'd drive from here to the stores with the 60GB to buy one.

Although, I'd think the area I live in would be on the lower end of the "PS3 availability" spectrum, seeing as the ratio of people with too much money to the rest of the population is higher then most of the US.

And of course, I've seen PS3s around now and then when I go to an electronics or games store. Most people who are actually looking for one probably could have found one in my area by now.

Re:Supply still spotty (1)

reyalpdemannu (1054910) | more than 7 years ago | (#17728202)

You must have some horrible traffic there! I drive 21 miles just to get to work every day, so 22 miles to pick up a PS3 doesn't sound unreasonable to me. I foresaw the overstock problem.....I'm waiting for the pricing to dip here so I can pick up some good F@H boxen. :)

Re:Supply still spotty (1)

Turken (139591) | more than 7 years ago | (#17728934)

For example, try my zip code (92656) on the ebgames store list and you have to go 22 miles before you get a store that has any in stock for the 60GB model , or 10 miles for the 20GB. The drive for the 20GB isn't that bad, but it'd be a pretty dedicated person who'd drive from here to the stores with the 60GB to buy one.

At first, I thought you were crazy for thinking that 22 miles was a long way to go. Then I looked at your zip code, and realized that you're simply crazy for living in southern CA.

In the REST of the USA (except for maybe NYC, Chicago, DFW, etc) a 22 mile drive is nothing major at all. As other posters note, MANY people drive this far (or further) in their commute every single day. As for myself (zip code 14802) its over 30 mile as the crow flies to the nearest gamestop/EB regardless of whether they have units in stock, and the roads around here are anything but straight. Realistically, it's a 40-60 mile drive depending on which area I want to look for one. Fortunately the traffic is such that the drive only takes an hour or so.

Anyway, the point is that if a person is dedicated, they CAN find a PS3 today in the vast majority of the lower 48 states if they really want to. The same thing can't necessarily be said for the Wii. For one of those, you could spend an entire day going from store to store and still not find one.

I'm going to buy a Wii eventually (1)

soft_guy (534437) | more than 7 years ago | (#17726774)

Eventually, I plan to buy a Wii, but I won't buy a PS3. Even with a discount, they are too expensive.

Exclusive Titles (3, Interesting)

the dark hero (971268) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727036)

Hopefully they drop the price on the PS3 in the U.S. by the time some must-have exclusive titles come out(FFXIII) because im going to go for the cheapest PS3 possible when that happens, but only if they have a decent library. I would sure hate to miss out on the next Shaddow of the Colossus.

Re:Exclusive Titles (2, Interesting)

jZnat (793348) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727260)

Combine that with actual decent support for PS2 and PS1 games, and I think I'll end up getting one. Of course, the price needs to be a bit more competitive with the 360. I don't particularly care about getting a Blu-ray player (wouldn't buy movies in that format anyways; too expensive), so the reasons for getting one are really to replace my non-existent PS2 (can't play Guitar Hero anymore ;_;) and for a system that should at least be getting good games (but still hasn't).

I usually end up owning all the consoles in each generation, but who knows if the PS3 can survive long enough for me to do that.

It Might Sell if... (2, Insightful)

Rev Jim (AKA Metal F (1004571) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727092)

they had some #$@# games worth playing on the thing. I saw a mountainous stack of PS3s the other day at Best Buy. I thought of the $600 price tag, then I thought of Resistance:Fall of Man and then I couldn't think of anything else but $600. What kinda nut is going to pay that and not have anything to play that is worth a #$%@ If they would have just got half a dozen or so exclusive titles that all were of a calibre equal to Resistance:FOM or better they wouldn't have to drop the price cause the games would move the system. Why they haven't realized this is indicative of just how out of touch they've really become with their market superiority they've enjoyed for nearly a decade. And after recently finishing FFXIII and FFIII - I'm neck deep in Zelda:TP, Okami, Bully, Castlevania:POR, Gears of War, and NWN2 (among others) - I barely have time to get them completed let alone go 'gee, I really need to play Resistance:FOM for $650 - I don't think so...it's just not a good time to get a PS3 and they have no titles.

Re:It Might Sell if... (1)

Thraxen (455388) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727514)

People always make that point, but it's not really a very sound argument. You aren't paying $650 just for RFoM. It's not like RFoM is the only game you will have to play for the entire life of the system. You'll get the next MGS, God of War, Rachet & Clank, FF, etc, etc, etc, etc... that everyone who waits will get to play. Early adopters just pay more to have the system earlier. And if you have an HDTV you also have a quality Blu-Ray player to use.

Re:It Might Sell if... (1)

MeanderingMind (884641) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727746)

Agreed. Unless you have some mystic power that tells you the only game you will ever buy for the PS3 is RFoM it's a somewhat flawed argument to say "$600 just for RFoM". Other games will come, and most people will expand their library.

However, I think the unspoken implication is "$600 just for RFoM right now". Maybe I'm giving the GP too much credit. Still, if RFoM is the only game you'd play on a $600 PS3 were you to buy one now, is this worth not waiting for new games and/or a price drop?

Re:It Might Sell if... (1)

ProppaT (557551) | more than 7 years ago | (#17728262)

Yeah, well, I paid $300 to play Twilight Princess. Anything else that comes out (and I'm sure there will be tons of things that come out) will make that initial investment even better. The key is, $300 wasn't too much for me to put down at once for 2 fun games and the promise of multiple other titles I'll have fun with down the road. $650 is a VERY LARGE initial investment. That's putting $650 down right now for one game, with promises of more games to come in the future. I could have much more fun spending that $650 elsewhere NOW and picking up a PS3 when it depreciates.

Who is losing money (1)

llZENll (545605) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727166)

I have read many sources saying consoles sell for like $1 over cost to the retailer. Wouldn't they be losing a lot of money doing this?

Re:Who is losing money (1)

operato (782224) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727250)

they make money from the other stuff they sell for the console

Re:Who is losing money (3, Interesting)

Crasty (1019258) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727708)

As an ex-retailer, although not part of a big chain, I can tell you that when something you bought for say, 200 dollars is not selling well and there is very little demand for it, you are very tempted to sell it for $150, even if it's retail price is over $200. At some point, you realize profit is not and option, and it becomes a matter of mitigating loss.

The "new sales" video game market is not a good place to retailers, whether people want to admit it or not. Spending $44-46 on a game to sell it at $49.99 is not a happy prospect on most games.. throw in the occasional total bomb, and it becomes a very hard business to succeed in.

Re:Who is losing money (1)

kinglink (195330) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727888)

And thus the reason why retailers now have the option of returning the games to distributors.

See Atari 2600's ET for past issues with these rules.

Re:Who is losing money (1)

_Hiro_ (151911) | more than 7 years ago | (#17728544)

This is very much based on contract / agreements between the retailer and the wholesaler / manufacturer.

Some do allow returns. Some do not. It's not a universal agreement of any form.

Re:Who is losing money (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 7 years ago | (#17728436)

I'd assume they'd spend more on storing that inventory than they lose because of this pricedrop.

This is on Slashdot? (0, Flamebait)

gamer4Life (803857) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727396)

Honestly, what's the point of this information aside from more FUD from Microsoft fanboys? Nevermind that there are other more technical-related aspects to the system, or *gasp* even positive coverage, such as the PS3 winning IGN's console of the year.

Besides, Kotaku and it's blogging network is well-known to be biased against the PS3 and Sony in general.

If this makes it on Slashdot, what's next? Do we get updates on price cuts of various technology products?

In any case, the bashers will bash away - no price cut means "teh PS3 is too expen$ive!!!", a price cut means "teh PS3 sux0rs!!! no 1 wants it!!!"

The question is, will prices rise when the games start coming out? When will Sony cut it's price for the PS3? When will Microsoft cut it's price on it's XBox 360, it's been over a year already.

Re:This is on Slashdot? (1)

Thraxen (455388) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727438)

Actually, yes, I'm pretty sure price cuts for any of the consoles would be posted as they have always been.

Re:This is on Slashdot? (1)

(A)*(B)!0_- (888552) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727466)

"such as the PS3 winning IGN's console of the year."
Except that's not what the PS3 won; it won "Best New Console"; which IGN described as an award that is basically considering what the console could do in the future - not what games are currently available for it. That's pretty different than being the best console. See for yourself [ign.com]

Try to get your facts straight.

Re:This is on Slashdot? (1)

MeanderingMind (884641) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727576)

I think the issue here isn't a price cut, but that stores independantly decided to slash prices. This isn't something that normally happens on either shore. Usually retailers are quite happy to sell at MSRP until finally there's an official price drop (however long it may be in coming). In many ways this is unprecedented.

I'm not claiming that a lot of fanboys wouldn't baselessly interpret an official price drop in a similarly negative fashion, but I am positing that there is reason to see this as both relevant and potentially bad news for the PS3.

Re:This is on Slashdot? (1)

nomadic (141991) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727838)

Honestly, what's the point of this information aside from more FUD from Microsoft fanboys?

Microsoft fanboys?! Are you kidding?! This is slashdot, they're all Nintendo fanboys.

Re:This is on Slashdot? (1)

Osty (16825) | more than 7 years ago | (#17728790)

In any case, the bashers will bash away - no price cut means "teh PS3 is too expen$ive!!!", a price cut means "teh PS3 sux0rs!!! no 1 wants it!!!"

Obviously the PS3 sucks on multiple levels. Take away one of those levels (price) and you've still got a whole lot of suck going on -- no games, piss-poor online services, crappy controller problems, etc.

The question is, will prices rise when the games start coming out?

Prices where? On Ebay? Maybe. In stores? It depends. If price cuts were done by the retailer, they could reasonably adjust the price back up to MSRP and explain the previous price away as a "sale". If Sony did the price cut, they'd catch hell trying to bump the price back up.

When will Sony cut it's price for the PS3?

Not for quite some time, I suspect. For several reasons:

  • Sony wants the PS3 to last on its own far longer than the PS1 or PS2. While they went back on that one a bit and said they will still do a PS4, we don't know if the PS4 will show up in 5 years (standard generation time frame) or 10.
  • Sony is losing a huge wad of cash on every PS3 sold, even at the $500/600 prices. Unless they're forced by market factors (nobody's buying, Microsoft drops 360 prices), expect Sony to keep the price as high as they possibly can for as long as they possibly can.
  • Sony's ego won't let them be the first to cut their prices, as that would be tantamount to admitting defeat. This is the same company that suggested (via Kutaragi) that gamers would get second jobs in order to afford a PS3.

When will Microsoft cut it's price on it's XBox 360, it's been over a year already.

So? There's no rule that says prices must drop after a year. What incentive does Microsoft have to drop the price right now? 360s are selling quite well (everywhere but Japan, and even that's picking up with Blue Dragon) at the current price point, and there's still no real competition (Wii is complementary, PS3 is dead in the water). Eventually Microsoft will have to drop the price, but they're sitting in a very good position right now. They could wait until manufacturing economies of scale make it possible to drop the price by $100 and still break even or even make a small profit.

Drop The Price Of The "Basic Package" (2, Informative)

EXTomar (78739) | more than 7 years ago | (#17727920)

(This is something Microsoft should do as well.) They can cram as much crap into the "high end package" and charge whatever they want for it. The problem Microsoft and Sony face is that their "Basic Package", which is supposed to be the bargain version, really isn't a bargain at all. Both of these consoles have a "Basic Package" that is too expensive and is reflected in their sluggish sales. Even though Microsoft can claim some sort of victory in shoving 10 million units out the door, neither of these are even close to where the PS2 and XBox where a year later. I see Sony heading down this same sluggish sales path unless the drop the price of their supposedly cheaper unit soon.

This is all a reflection of how horribly expensive console gaming has gotten. We might as well be spending our money on gaming computers instead.

Re:Drop The Price Of The "Basic Package" (1)

MemoryDragon (544441) | more than 7 years ago | (#17728476)

Problem is, at the current rate, Nintendo will have sold around 10 mio Wiis end of may. The situation over here is insane, I have yet to spot a single Wii in one of the stores here in central europe since launch day. At launch day all wiis over here were sold out within minutes, and since then I have not spotted anything, but at least the situation has gone back to normal regarding the wiimotes and nunchucks, they can be obtained now almost everywhere (that has happend the last two weeks) The situation is equally bad with the component or RGB cables over here, even the third party cables seem to be sold out instantly.

The boxes must ship to the stores, but seem to be snapped up as soon as they arrive. Nintendo has won big so far over here, and given sonys pricetag of the PS3 of being roughly 620 euros which relates to 800USD I cannot see that changing, since many people over here do not earn that much compared to the USA (exceptions probably being some parts of England and some parts of Ireland)

So Microsoft might have a sweet first victory but by the mid of the year it might turn into a sour aftertaste.

Is that so? (1)

Goaway (82658) | more than 7 years ago | (#17728038)

And to think I've been told, again and again, that the PS3 will sell "no matter what" in Japan, because it's made by Sony! It couldn't have been that those people were all talking out of their asses, could it?

Re:Is that so? (2, Informative)

meringuoid (568297) | more than 7 years ago | (#17729176)

And to think I've been told, again and again, that the PS3 will sell "no matter what" in Japan, because it's made by Sony!

You know those comparison pics we keep seeing, of Wii boxes marked 'totally sold out' and PS3 boxes marked 'Please for the love of God take these things off our hands'? Where are the Xbox 360 boxes?

They're not there. Nobody in Japan wants them at all.

According to this article [joystiq.com] the PS3 has already sold more units in Japan than has the Xbox 360. Even though it's only been out a month.

The people telling you how the PS3 would surely sell in Japan were telling you that on the assumption that the contest was between Sony and Microsoft - in which case, Sony is a surefire winner. The whole Wii thing was unexpected - although given the enormous craze in Japan for the DS over the summer, perhaps it should not have been such a surprise.

I Want One Badly, But... (1)

bym051d (980242) | more than 7 years ago | (#17728138)

I was very excited by the PS3's release. I've been a PS and PS2 owner and extremely happy with both. I contemplated waiting in line to get a PS3, but decided against it. I'm now glad I did. Currently, there's only 1 game I want to play, R:FoM. I'm not eager to buy a PS3 for it because of the lack of a scaler in the PS3. I have an early HDTV that only does 480p and 1080i. I'm not spending $600 for a next gen system that allows only 480p on the game I want to play. I'm sure I'll have a PS3 for the release of FFXIII. I'm just not that interested now. If the PS3 had a scaler, maybe. IMHO, Sony dropped the ball by not providing a scaler like MS did *last year.*
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