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Koreans Advised to "Avoid Vista" for Now

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 7 years ago | from the as-long-as-warcrack-still-works dept.

Windows 333

An anonymous reader writes "The Chosonilbo reports that several government ministries in South Korea are advising users not to install Windows Vista, at least until popular online services can be made compatible. The problem is that ActiveX is pervasive in the Korean webspace, employed by everyone from web games to online banking. Upgrading to Vista is expected to render many of these services unusable. Portions of the popular "Hangul" word processor, a major competitor to Office in that country, are also not functioning under Vista. The Ministry of Information is planning to publish compatibility information for popular websites, and urging users to carefully research the implications of upgrading."

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Oh noes! (4, Funny)

dancingmad (128588) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744288)

The Chinese Purification [slashdot.org] has alrady begun in Asia!!!

I am NOT a Google SHILL !! Film at Eleven (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17745052)

I am NOT a Google SHILL !! File at Eleven.

isn't everyone? (0, Troll)

coldsleep (1037374) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744304)

I thought all businesses were avoiding Vista...I doubt that Korea needed to issue an advisory to get people to stay away.

Users != businesses (2, Insightful)

DragonWriter (970822) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744378)

I thought all businesses were avoiding Vista...

Perhaps they are. While businesses are computer users, not all users are businesses.

Re:Users != businesses (5, Funny)

coldsleep (1037374) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744906)

Good point. I got fixated on the ActiveX comments about games, banks and forgot about the users.

Then again, I always forget about the users. If it weren't for the pesky users, the computers would run fine!

Re:isn't everyone? (2, Funny)

purpledinoz (573045) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744546)

I've been telling all my friends buying new PCs to avoid Vista as well, until at least the first service pack is released.

Re:isn't everyone? (3, Insightful)

The Bungi (221687) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744566)

I thought all businesses were avoiding Vista...

Maybe you shouldn't use Slashdot as your source of news? Just a thought.

A company in the midwest I do some consulting for just did a 1,200 desktop test rollout to one of their divisions. They didn't have any legacy problems and were upgrading to Office 2007 anyway, plus they had fairly new machines.

Like XP vs W2K before, Vista uptake will necessarily be slow, but eventually it will be installed everywhere. In fact, I'm guessing it will be even a bit more successful than XP because all those Windows 2000 holdouts are probably overdue for a machine upgrade as well.

Re:isn't everyone? (3, Insightful)

spun (1352) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744642)

I'm surprised to find a windows consultant claiming that a new version of windows will be successful. It's almost as if his business depends on people paying him to install this kludgy piece of crap, but that just makes no sense.

Okay, sorry for the sarcasm and the cheap shot.

I think perhaps the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Vista will not be a complete flop, but it will sell well under what Microsoft expects.

Re:isn't everyone? (4, Funny)

Ucklak (755284) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744842)

Vista will be Microsoft's best seller ever. You wait and see.

In fact, I will bookmark this comment and see when that statment will come true.

Re:isn't everyone? (4, Insightful)

hobo sapiens (893427) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745038)

I think perhaps the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Vista will not be a complete flop, but it will sell well under what Microsoft expects.
Unfortunately, build quality and commercial success are quite unrelated. It will be a success. Windows is too entrenched for any other outcome. If Vista is proven to cause spontaneous human combustion then maybe, just maybe, it will be unsuccessful from a sheer number-of-deployments stance.

Re:isn't everyone? (4, Interesting)

Flavio (12072) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745064)

I think perhaps the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Vista will not be a complete flop, but it will sell well under what Microsoft expects.

Legal copies of Vista will be bundled with most new computers, and this alone will make it a best seller. Also, many corporations will upgrade just for the sake of upgrading.

I believe Microsoft has a very good idea of what's going to happen. They understand the business and marketing aspects of selling software better than anyone else.

Re:isn't everyone? (1)

The Bungi (221687) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745078)

I'm surprised to find a windows consultant claiming that a new version of windows will be successful.

I am not a "windows consultant", whatever that might mean. And even asuming that your ("your" as in people like you) prophecies of doom and gloom about this "kludgy piece of crap" become true, simple and sheer inertia will make sure that Vista is installed eventually everywhere.

Re:isn't everyone? (2, Interesting)

that this is not und (1026860) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745358)

Not hardly. I won't ever install even XP here. And I am one of the people who pre-registered to pre-order Windows 2000. W2K is good enough, and the kind of software that I need to run on Windoze will continue to run on it. All my more interesting machines now run something else.

And, no, I am not a 'software luddite.' The people who are clinging to the same old/new buggy crap from Microsoft are the luddites, who are scared to move on. Microsoft is over, man. It still runs on Business machines, but businesses also still buy Swingline Staplers, Xerox copiers, and other tired, tedious things for utility purposes.

Re:isn't everyone? (2, Funny)

marshmallow soup (965581) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744734)

Maybe you shouldn't use Slashdot as your source of news? Just a thought.

You mean... Slashdot doesn't always tell the truth?

Re:isn't everyone? (1)

DarkIye (875062) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744950)

You mean... Slashdot doesn't always tell the truth?

You must be new here...

Re:isn't everyone? (1)

Harmonious Botch (921977) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744956)

I'm guessing it will be even a bit more successful than XP because all those Windows 2000 holdouts are probably overdue for a machine upgrade as well.
As early adopters of Vista upgrade both hardware and software, all those cheap used machines with copies of XP on them will flood the used market and undercut many people's motive for upgrading to Vista.

Re:isn't everyone? (2, Insightful)

The Bungi (221687) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745142)

all those cheap used machines with copies of XP on them will flood the used market and undercut many people's motive for upgrading to Vista.

Corporations don't buy used computers. And Joe Windows doesn't normally hop on eBay to buy used computers.

Re:isn't everyone? (1)

coldsleep (1037374) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745292)

Maybe you shouldn't use Slashdot as your source of news? Just a thought. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I don't. Perhaps you've heard of hyperbole? So anyone with fairly new machines is good to go. That's great if your company has the cash, but for many companies, upgrading computers that already work is seen as an unnecessary expense. Let alone replacing computers that "work just fine". The company I work for is looking at Vista, but it's likely we won't implement it for years, because there's no perceived benefit to moving to Vista. ...eventually it will be installed everywhere. Heh. Yeah. Aside from totally different operating systems, you realize that there are people running Win95, Win98, Win2K, etc. out there still, right?

Re:isn't everyone? (1)

The Bungi (221687) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745380)

So anyone with fairly new machines is good to go.

Yes, assuming they want to pay for it. Which brings us to:

That's great if your company has the cash, but for many companies, upgrading computers that already work is seen as an unnecessary expense.

So they won't be upgrading. Your original post [slashdot.org] claimed for some reason that *everyone* was avoiding Vista, which I can assure you is clearly not the case. Nowhere did I claim that *everyone* would be upgrading in the next three weeks, either.

Heh. Yeah. Aside from totally different operating systems, you realize that there are people running

Yes, I do. And your point here is? If your cousin Joe Bob is running Windows for Workgroups 3.11, he can continue to do so as long as he wants, I guess. When he buys a new box, chances are it will come with Vista. If he never buys another box then Microsoft is probably not interested in him anyway.

I think your problem is that you seem to be insulted by the idea that *anyone* would consider Vista, and then get defensive when someone points out there are lots of people out there already doing that.

Server side FTW! (5, Insightful)

MrNaz (730548) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744306)

Many people ask me why I insist on server side web apps unless there is absolutely positively no way around it. Now they know why. Client side processing means client side requirements. Server side processing means the client can be using anything from a PC with Firefox to an iPhone with... oh wait :P

Re:Server side FTW! (1)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744358)

It's a tradeoff really: what you can offload on the client is processing power and security issues you don't have to worry about for your servers too.

why even use ActiveX? (3, Insightful)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744324)

ActiveX is pervasive in the Korean webspace.
They should move to something that work in linux, mac os, and windows.

Re:why even use ActiveX? (2, Interesting)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744494)

ActiveX is pervasive in the Korean webspace.
They should move to something that work in linux, mac os, and windows


Of course they should, but reality is not there. Some sites even insist on using VB, in place of Javascript - ugh! IMHO, the problem lies with uninformed web developers and managers who have never used anything other than MS-Windows and therefore the fact there are others OSs and web browsers is news to them.

Re:why even use ActiveX? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17744604)

Of course they should, but reality is not there.

They must be undergoing some sort of existential crisis.

Re:why even use ActiveX? (2, Interesting)

AnnuitCoeptis (1049058) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745120)

Haha, you really do not get it. ActiveX and Microsoft are darlings there. South Korean economy is ridden by miriads of PC parts makers and the whole nation depends on their elecronics export to US and EU. Microsoft feeds them, so they obey. If Linux was ever able to offer robust driver layer to their hardware they may consider to switch, but they are not even considering given the braindead software layer that surrounds the Linux kernel, giving you the second tier wrapper shit? No way, Direct(x) way by Microsoft (the triumphant).

Re:why even use ActiveX? (1)

tb3 (313150) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745302)

I read in the paper the other day that South Korea has the lowest national birth rate in the world. The rate is 1.0, which puts South Korea on the Children of Men [imdb.com] fast track.

World's biggest Microsoft fans/world's worst birth rate? I'm just sayin ...

Client-Side VBScript. (4, Interesting)

MightyMait (787428) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745170)

Some sites even insist on using VB, in place of Javascript - ugh!

Don't I know it!!! I assume you mean client-side VBScript, which only works in IE. Server-side VBScript (in ASP, or VB.NET in ASP.NET) works just fine, since plain HTML is sent to the browser.

Recently, while troubleshooting an error in one of our customer's server-side code, I came across a web-form with a client-side VBScript validator. Underscoring the fact that the "developer" didn't understand what was going on, there was a disclaimer on the page that the form only works on "Internet Explorer and other browsers that support ASP". Of course, ASP had nothing to do with the incompatibility, it was the client-side VBScript.

It almost goes without saying, but the code had FrontPage written all over it!!

Re:why even use ActiveX? (5, Informative)

dokebi (624663) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745162)

Short version: they use Active-X because of US export policy.

Long version: Before Clinton allowed export of strong encryption, web browsers outside US only supported 40-bit encryption. So instead of using ssl with 40-bit keys, the Korean government adopted something called SEED, a homegrown algorithm with support for longer keys. So all the online banking stuff was done with it. This was around when IE was taking over the browser market, so banks used Active X to implement SEED. People liked it because it allowed them very nice and frequently updated widgets, and most people were running windows anyway.

Fast forward 10 years, the whole country is dependent on Active-X and therefore MS, with *zero* support for alternatives. As everyone is using IE, most web sites (including Korean Government sites) are designed only for IE+Acitve-X. All banking, shopping, stock trading, is done through Active-X, with no alternatives. This discourages people from using anything but Windows, perpetuating the monopoly. Korea is the only country where the stock market and most financial system shutdown because of the MS-SQL slammer worm (back in Jan '05). With help from rampant software piracy, MS is *the* dominant player in *all* software markets, and Korea's culture of homogeneity has simply perpetuated the monopoly.

I'm hoping people learned their lesson and will shift to more standards compliance and alternative implementations, but somehow I don't think so. In fact, the Korean Government will demand MS "fix" "their" problem, as obviously it is MS's fault for breaking "the Internet".

Serve these fuckers right. (0, Troll)

Gentlewhisper (759800) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744350)

Drink Microsoft's proprietary koolaid more heavily. Oh yea...

That's the problem with Vista's (5, Funny)

Shadow Wrought (586631) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744354)

The more promising the view, the steeper the cliff...

Re:That's the problem with Vista's (1, Flamebait)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744396)

It's more like a guy with a gun forcing you off the top of the mountain you're currently sitting on, back down to the valley, and up another mountain where the view is pretty much the same as the one you had from the first mountain.

Re:That's the problem with Vista's (2)

WhyDoYouWantToKnow (1039964) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744930)

and up another mountain where the view is pretty much the same

Don't you mean "where the vista is pretty much the same".

Re:That's the problem with Vista's (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17744978)

The more promising the view, the steeper the cliff....


The higher the monkey climbs, the more you see up its ass...

Only prudent. (4, Insightful)

RightSaidFred99 (874576) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744366)

I'm actually a MS user and I don't have a rabid irrational hatred of them like many around here. However, I'm not moving to Vista anytime soon. First, there's no compelling reason for me until DX10 games start hitting. Second, Vista is new and has many known issues, including performance issues. Third, all kinds of crap is going to break.

I think we're going to see Vista be the most slowly adopted OS Microsoft has ever released.

Re:Only prudent. (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17744424)

"I don't have a rabid irrational hatred..."

I don't have a rabid irrational hatred of Microsoft either, just a rational one.

Re:Only prudent. (4, Insightful)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744486)

I'm actually a MS user and I don't have a rabid irrational hatred of them like many around here.

Neither do we. We have a perfectly rational rabid hatred of them.

Seriously though, that preamble was unnecessary: it's perfectly okay to be a happy MS user and not be so hot about installing a new product from them. But hot or not, one of these days you'll have to bite the bullet anyway.

Re:Only prudent. (0, Redundant)

Pieroxy (222434) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744680)

I'm not that much of a MS hater myself, and yet I moved to Linux a few month ago (both at work and home). The reason is that there were things that really pissed me off in MS's offering.

I have a legit XP copy at home and am a bit of a tweaker. Lately I bought a faulty Mobo that gave me quite a bit of trouble to diagnos. Windows would break when I installed SP2, not before on that one. I reinstalled windows dozens of times in that occasion, and every single one of these times I had to call MS to activate my fucking copy. And if you're out of the support hours, no luck. You can't do it.

This, along with other things made me real mad. Plus a couple of viruses.

Oh well, vista won't even recognize any of my DVD players (They're RPC-1). What should I buy it for ?

Re:Only prudent. (2, Interesting)

shawngarringer (906569) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744902)

Huh, the activation hotline is open 24/7, I've called them in all hours of the day and night to activate windows. It took like 30 seconds.

I don't see why this is such a major gripe of people.

Re:Only prudent. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17745216)

Why should I have to ask Microsoft's permission for my software to work? They're the ones who suck.

Re:Only prudent. (1)

RzUpAnmsCwrds (262647) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745152)

And if you're out of the support hours, no luck. You can't do it.


Nice try, but Microsoft's activation hotline is 24/7.

Re:Only prudent. (1)

BlackSnake112 (912158) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744800)

I am doing the same thing that I have always done.
Do I need DX-10?
no- do nothing
yes - then get DX-10 stuff

as it stands right now, I have no need for any DX-10 stuff. Work wanted Vista and offive 2007, so it got installed. It works, I could care less about how shiney it makesapps and stuff. It acts just like xp only slower. I still have a single core proc. Vista like multi core procs. Single core procs get pegged at max on every application start. It has gotten old very fast.

Re:Only prudent. (1)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744998)

I'm actually a MS user and I don't have a rabid irrational hatred of them like many around here.

You must be new here. :P

Re:Only prudent. (1)

ShawnMcCool42 (557138) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745012)

I'm honestly fairly disgusted by the idea of DX10 games at the moment. Effectively they're creating a system that limits the open source graphic alternative, OpenGL. I will never code in DX10 as it's not cross platform. Good thing my smallware development won't require cutting edge performance.

Re:Only prudent. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17745288)

If you don't hate Microsoft, then you must be very ignorant. They are one of the most abusive companies on earth.

Firmware... (2, Funny)

Foryst (870882) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744394)

Did someone forget to install the memory and update Korea's firmware again?

Clearly this has less to do with activex... (0, Redundant)

Jon Howard (247978) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744434)

...and more to do with Ragnarok and Lineage. :D

Windows or Linux... (2, Insightful)

lazycam (1007621) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744466)

I never upgrade when there is a new release. This is responsible thinking and planning on the Korean government's part. Now, if we could only convince our government and other consumers to follow suit.

I used to think... (3, Interesting)

mollymoo (202721) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744480)

I used to think Korea was a pretty technologically advanced place. Till I read this:
ActiveX is pervasive in the Korean webspace, employed by everyone from web games to online banking

Re:I used to think... (-1, Flamebait)

El Lobo (994537) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744606)

Just another user that fears a word. ActiveX is no more than a simple executable, like your webbrowser, your notepad.exe or your stupid vi. The difference is that this execvutable is running in the webbrowser address space. Normally that should not be a problem if the user and the creator have security in mind. Don't fear a word.

Re:I used to think... (5, Insightful)

yoasif (969247) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744798)

Cross browser/OS compatibility isn't important at all?

Re:I used to think... (1, Informative)

El Lobo (994537) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745094)

Not always. Not if this is a closed solution. Being a true executable Activex is more powerful than any other solution could ever be, so many companies just use it as a first hand solution for internal use. Why do they need cross browser support? To be politically correct? Well, fuck that!

Re:I used to think... (3, Insightful)

yoasif (969247) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745222)

Why not just make it a Windows app then? I'm sure any company that has a Intranet also has VPN, so offsite computing isn't a problem. Also, a Windows app would work even if Apache/IIS went down, but the DB backend stayed up.

It's disengenuous to ignore that ActiveX is a technology that is meant to use MS's dominant presence on computing to balkanize the web.

Re:I used to think... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17745320)

It's called vendor lock-in. It means that business that build for that software wont be able to change when a better solution comes along and the old one becomes obsolete(which, lets face it, happens a lot in the software world.) And will end up costing them in the long run. I guess it's ok(for you) to sell products that lockin if you can just go pay people like el lobo to run around and hide that fact.

Re:I used to think... (1)

bitserf (756357) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745082)

The fact that you don't see a problem with random executables being allowed to run in your browser's address space, speaks volumes. Security-minded or not, vulnerabilities happen. ActiveX simply increases the severity of of such a vulnerability, given that its native code.

I'll bet you did... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17744678)

Jack, meet Ass. That's you!

Re:I used to think... (1, Interesting)

The Bungi (221687) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744886)

There's nothing wrong with ActiveX, other than the fact that it transfers the burden of trust entirely to the user, and leaves no middle ground there because it is a native executable that runs under your own credentials.

On the other hand, it's a lot better than a Java applet. The internet "video revolution" that we're supposed to be in right now (for better or worse) is made possible by Flash, which would have been impossible to achieve with something like Java.

If you know what you're doing, ActiveX is perfectly "safe". People who suffer nervous breakdowns when they hear the term usually are ignorant of how the technology works, or went through one of those nightmare scenarios where their kid/mom/wife clicked "Yes" when asked of they wanted to install that REALLY COOL SEARCH ASSISTANT or whatever.

In retrospect of course the security problems have probably outweighed the benefits. The technology was a great idea - the implementation sucked.

Re:I used to think... (1)

yoasif (969247) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745074)

Flash is implemented in non MS browsers (maybe even MS browsers) as a plugin, not an ActiveX applet. You're right that it works fine, but I'm not convinced that Java wouldn't have worked as effectively. What's loading up a Java applet vs. loading up a Flash one?

Either way, this doesn't help your case for ActiveX at all, since plugins are not the same as ActiveX applets.

Re:I used to think... (1)

The Bungi (221687) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745106)

What's loading up a Java applet vs. loading up a Flash one?

The term "native executable" comes to mind.

Either way, this doesn't help your case for ActiveX at all

I'm sorry you thought I was making a case for ActiveX, because I wasn't.

Re:I used to think... (1)

Icculus (33027) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745250)

What's loading up a Java applet vs. loading up a Flash one?
The term "native executable" comes to mind.

well the term 'tall frosty beer' also comes to mind but that doesn't really have much to do with the subject either. Seriously though, I am completely ignorant of the Flash implementation of these video players, but are they using system's installed codecs or something to render the video? I can't imagine that's the case since I can watch them easily on my Linux, Mac, and Windows machines without installing anything extra (which is, I hear, why Google moved away from the VLC plugin deal to a Flash player). If that is the case I can see your point, otherwise why couldn't the exact same player be implemented as a Java applet?

Re:I used to think... (1)

The Bungi (221687) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745290)

Sigh...

but are they using system's installed codecs or something to render the video?

No, that's the point. You can use RealMedia, WM, OGG, MPG, AVI, DivX or whatever and it all ends up being streamed in a Flash window. All you need is Flash.

If that is the case I can see your point, otherwise why couldn't the exact same player be implemented as a Java applet?

Yes, that is the case. And yes, that is my point. And no, I'm guessing it would be a hell of a lot slower in Java than it is in Flash/ActiveX.

Re:I used to think... (1)

yoasif (969247) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745264)

Computers are only getting faster, as well as more varied. Is it really worth it for a third party plugin manufacturer to base a technology around native code when CPUs are only getting faster (and clients change)? The biggest new addition to the internet in coming years will be phones that run disparate OSes; Java is generally a common denominator among them, and is far simpler than coding a "native" solution for every phone.

And computers are getting faster, Java is already "fast enough" (see Azureus), and it's likely fine for a browser app/plugin.

Re:I used to think... (1)

owlnation (858981) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745132)

If you know what you're doing, ActiveX is perfectly "safe".
um, remind me why phishing / identity theft is big business, and spam too for that matter. Hands up everyone who thinks many Microsoft users know what they are doing.

I think we disagree on the definition of "safe".

Re:I used to think... (1)

The Bungi (221687) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745206)

Hands up everyone who thinks many Microsoft users know what they are doing.

You seem a bit indignant here, but you're merely reinforcing what I said. "Safe" in quotes means exactly that, and yes, there are millions of Windows users who will happily click on a dialog just to get that REALLY COOL web page to load so they can look at some pr0n or a joke. So I must be missing your point.

Re:I used to think... (1)

Shados (741919) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745428)

Its almost true, but not quite. Once you have an active x installed in a way thats usuable by a browser, then it can be used "at will". So let say I make a web site, with my own active x, and I'm the only user. I don't risk anything from visiting that web site, obviously. But let say someone else learns about it, and stick the tag to use the same control on their web site, but this time abuse a security hole in it... When I go on that web site, I'm going to get owned by my own Active X. There was recently an issue like that, where an Active X used in Visual Studio (not even a web site) had a security hole, so someone could hook it up through a web site, and BANG! (it didn't affect IE7 though, as it handles these things a little better).

If ActiveXs could only be used by the web site that installed them, what you say would be more true (not totally, since certain phishing methods can catch off guard even a tech savy person, if its well done enough...social engineering is a powerful thing), but unfortunately, its not completly the case, especialy in older IEs.

Re:I used to think... (1)

trytoguess (875793) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745330)

Technologically advanced simply means more shiny gadgets. Has nothing to do with smart software useage.

Uh oh (5, Funny)

Annymouse Cowherd (1037080) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744512)

Wait, Battle.net isn't compatible with Vista?

Dumbfucks (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17744630)

Smart of them to get locked into proprietary ActiveX technology.
And lock out platforms and browsers who don't have any ActiveX (namely all except IE).

Idiots.

Next time, they should have used something open such as Java.

In Korea... (3, Funny)

spaceyhackerlady (462530) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744634)

In Korea only old people use ActiveX.

Re:In Korea... (1)

sarathmenon (751376) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745256)

In Soviet Korea, the ActiveX uses you!

Re:In Korea... (1)

mw22 (908270) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745364)

Why? Some kind of degenerative disease is causing this?

Old People? (1)

daivzhavue (176962) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744644)

I thought only old people in Korea used ActiveX components.

Re:Old People? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17745396)

I thought only old people in Korea used ActiveX components.

No, that was dentures.

Ministry of Information? (2, Funny)

marshmallow soup (965581) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744684)

So says the Ministry of Information? Like, the Ministry of Truth? "Don't install Vista. Drink Victory coffee."

Heaven Forbid (1)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744686)

Install Vista? In Korea? Heaven forbid! They might get...get [whispers] security. OMG!!! Repent, repent, ye lost souls! Let ActiveX be thy savior!

Why Upgrade (1)

mikeman14400 (520812) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744704)

Why would anyone upgrade yet anyway? Doesn't everyone remember all of the many problems XP had when it was first released? I didn't upgrade my PC to XP until SP1 was avaible and probably won't upgrade to vista any time soon either.

Microsoft shooting themselves in the foot? (1)

grimJester (890090) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744748)

I thought the whole point of ActiveX was to be incompatible with anything but Microsoft products. Apparently their Embrace-Extend-Extinguish strategy worked a bit too well.

Anyone know what this is all about - they must still be aiming to support old ActiveX stuff, right?

Re:Microsoft shooting themselves in the foot? (1)

forgotmynameagain (1046572) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744792)

Translation :

"We were stupid enough to make our sites with Active X, please forgive us".

Koreans reaction to it :

"As long as Starcraft works with it, who cares."

The real reason: a security problem (1)

adnonsense (826530) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744790)

The real reason is that Windows Vista does not yet offer in-built protection against attacks by giant North Korean rabbits [slashdot.org] .

upgrade? (1)

chopper749 (574759) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744810)

What the heck are they using now?!?!?

Typo (1)

spyd3r (822504) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744826)

headline should read: 'Korea advises that NO ONE install Vista'

Korea is stuck using Microsoft (5, Interesting)

bitserf (756357) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744830)

Ran into this with my partner, who is Korean. Her online banking uses incredibly invasive, poorly conceived and programmed software called nProtect. Which installs a bloody device driver to function. It actually blue screened Vista randomly. It does not install without Administrator level access to the machine (obviously). In addition, it required that you run IE7 in Administrator mode when attempting to log in. Also, many many websites did not function reliably with Vista and IE7, their ActiveX controls expecting to have administrator level access to the machine. Advanced technologically? Hardly. Just proprietary and locked in, and not very security conscious. The amount of times I had to click "Allow this website to install an ActiveX control" is just insane, I don't want to think of the amount of remote code execution vulnerabilities present on a machine with all these controls installed. They're pretty much conditioned to allow the website to install any old thing, really, since so many of their websites require it.

Re:Korea is stuck using Microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17745058)

Ran into this with my partner, who is Korean

Just curious, North Korean or South Korean?

Re:Korea is stuck using Microsoft (1)

bitserf (756357) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745110)

South Korean - Gwangju

Re:Korea is stuck using Microsoft (4, Interesting)

element609 (303265) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745450)

I wonder if this has anything to do with the large amount of spam originating from South Korea? For my less internationally inclined clients, I sometimes suggested using the DNSBL cn-kr.blackholes.us to help fight some of the unwanted spam.

I spent a month at a S. Korean University, and there was a lot of junk installed on the public computers on campus. Every evening they rebooted, and and started with a clean image each morning - so IE was clogged after a day's worth of surfing. Needless to say, I rebooted before using one.

Where Did You Want to Go Today? (1)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744840)

If the execs running Red Hat or another Linux distro had the killer instinct that Gates and other Microsoft execs have always had, then every single obstacle to "upgrading" Windows to Vista would be greeted as an offramp to Linux. Packages that reinstalled Linux would be marketed as "Windows recovery tools" to people evaluating Vista. Bundled with Office workalikes and training videos, and clickable data conversion tools.

It's easy to blame MS for being bad. It's harder to blame Linux distros for being bad at being as good at being bad.

Re:Where Did You Want to Go Today? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17745080)

It's kind of like the Democrats, really. I'm surprised they didn't do way better in 2k4 and 2k6; their stuff was practically gift-wrapped.

Fear Not (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17744846)

I am using Vista and Office 2007 on my primary workstation. Apart from minor incompatibilities with some existing applications which are getting fixed by software vendors very quickly (e.g. Reason's ReWire was broken for Vista and got a fix within a few days) there is nothing to fear about upgrading to Vista. The hardware compatibility and performance issues are negligible (if any). Aero Glass is very smooth and network performance is great. Most of my hardware got detected by Vista setup, and some of the more exotic stuff (like pro audio recording devices and guitar expression pedals) which wasn't detected, worked fine with XP drivers on Vista.

About Linux, wake me up when:

1. It runs all popular games I can run on Windows.
2. It gets low latency audio stack.
3. It gets anything comparable to audio/video production software I use. No Adobe Premiere? No Steinberg Cubase? No Propellerhead Reason? No Linux for me!
4. The installation doesn't suck as much as it does. The best experience I had with running Linux was under Virtual PC in Windows XP.
5. It streams media to my Xbox 360 in the living room.
6. It gets an IDE like Visual Studio.
7. And a lot more.

PS: Proudly posted through IE 7 from a machine running Windows Vista and Office 2007!

MS just can't win can they? (4, Insightful)

GFree (853379) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744920)

They create ActiveX; it's has its uses but the security flaws are far too large to ignore.

People criticize MS for ActiveX, so...

They remove ActiveX; now there's less of a push for it but existing ActiveX systems are screwed.

People criticize MS for removing ActiveX, so... ...

PROFIT?

Re:MS just can't win can they? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17745138)

"People criticize MS for removing ActiveX, so..."

Not "people", bonehead. The Korean Government.

And the Korean Government didn't "criticize" MS - they advised their citizens to hold off on Vista just yet.

But if you want criticism of that semi-criminal, corrupt, dishonest organization, Microsoft, here's some:

http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm [usdoj.gov]

http://www.catb.org/~esr/halloween/ [catb.org]

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_c ost.html [auckland.ac.nz]

Korea.. what a strange place (1)

ickleberry (864871) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744952)

It is quite amazing that almost every computer you see there has windows XP with the dreaded Luna theme. Apple is unheard of, and so is firefox. Yet at the same time there seems to be quite a big linux community but very behind the scenes. Like here they have public terminals that run Linux, the computers in the library have openoffice.org installed but there is none of that in Korea. I went into a big computer shop in Pusan and didn't see a single mac or anything remotely to do with linux. Then there are all the dreaded PC clubs, where people play to the death, literally. Most of them still using CRT's yet high spec computers for gaming. Almost every bar you walk into subscribes to some "maxmp3" or similar service - all based out of the browser (IE6) flash-based web players, maybe ActiveX who knows I was more concerned with drinking Hite

Re:Korea.. what a strange place (5, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745300)

Most of them still using CRT's yet high spec computers for gaming.

Maybe you didn't get the memo, but CRTs are superior to LCDs for gaming in every way but the usual reasons to buy LCD, size and weight. LCDs have one resolution, CRTs can do many resolutions (and true multisync CRTs, which are admittedly a rarity these days, can do all KINDS of things.) The best LCD has a refresh rate and is chunky compared to a CRT, which has persistence due to phosphors.

SED is supposed to address the issue of persistence, but won't solve any of the other issues.

Re:Korea.. what a strange place (2, Informative)

Glowing Fish (155236) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745442)

That and all the health and environmental hazards associated with CRTs.

Cathode= Very high voltage at the back of your computer

Ray= Stream of electrons hitting the phosphor, producing visible light and also ultraviolet and higher light that is shielded from french frying your face by the three or so kilos of lead inside your monitor

Tube= Vacuum Tube that is just itching to implode

Not that these are things to absolutely alarmist about, but if CRTs were being developed as a new technology, with our health, safety and environmental concerns we have now, noone would ever go for it.

Wow, MS blew off a whole country (1)

gelfling (6534) | more than 7 years ago | (#17744964)

One would think that the PHB's in Redmond would have considered the ramifications of being sooooo special that it disconnects a whole high tech country from your product. I'm am so glad I dumped all my MS stock 3 weeks ago.

Koreans must be quite stupid then. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17744966)

How can anybody, i mean anybody, use ActiveX for anything? (apart maybe from Intranet stuff). I mean, this is vendor lock-in at it's best, doesn't anybody learn from the past?
But Hangul's developers are even more stupid than that. Heck, Vista was available for Months via msdn, how can anyone not have adapted their Software to run on Vista by now?

Damn MS for springing this on people. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17745076)

Oh wait it isn't as though they had a frickin year to test their stuff with Vista. Not that MS and Vista aren't without there faults, but come on, Vista has been available for a year for evaulation and to test stuff out and make sure it runs before it came out of beta/rc status. This isn't the fault of MS or Vista, this is the fault of lazy people who didn't bother to obtain a copy to test with.

why mention korea? (2, Insightful)

angelwalkwithme (984267) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745116)

When i listened to national public radio the other day they were advising the same thing. To wait on Vista until all the bugs are worked out. I really fail to see why the fact that Koreans were advised the same thing makes that big a difference. The title should have been "Users warned to wait until upgrading to Vista".

Vista isn't done..... (4, Funny)

whoever57 (658626) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745158)

... until Hangul don't run! (there goes my karma!)

Not A Monopoly, Honest! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17745248)

Portions of the popular "Hangul" word processor, a major competitor to Office in that country, are also not functioning under Vista.

Yeah, I'm sure it's because of upgrade issues ... and nothing at all to do with Microsoft wanting to increase Office uptake in these territories.

As for the rest of it, FFS stop tying yourself into proprietary systems. What's with the ActiveX obsession?

Not Vista's fault (5, Interesting)

Sloppy (14984) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745284)

The problem is that Vista doesn't play well with a software program called Active-X that is widely used in Korean Internet sites.

No, the problem is that incompetently created websites use delicate nonportable nonstandard proprietary software that is only interoperative with one single obsolete platform.

Don't blame Vista; blame people who aren't responsible, experienced, or forward-looking enough to see why complying with standards is so necessary.

Now let's see how people will fix their glaring mistake. Will they "fix" it by repeating it (i.e. rewriting ActiveX controls to be compatible with Vista, so that they can get paid to screw their customers again in 5 years when the next version of Windows comes out) or will they fix it by removing the irresponsible dependencies?

For now? (1)

Dracos (107777) | more than 7 years ago | (#17745374)

This assumes that one of two things will eventually happen:

  • MS will give ActiveX in Vista the freedom it had in previous versions of Windows
  • All these sites/applications will move to something less Windows-centric

As for the first, it's possible that MS can decide later that it "degraded the user experience" with Vista with regard to ActiveX and loosen the restrictions on it with SP1 (thus, degrading the user experience when the next generation of ActiveX exploits get into the wild).

For the second, it would take a lot of time for these things to get ported to non-MS (not necessarily Open) solutions such as Flash.

Which will come first?

Seems MS has created quite a dilemma for themselves. No doubt Korea isn't the only country where this will happen.

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