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BBC To Host Multi-OS Debate

samzenpus posted more than 7 years ago | from the get-ready-to-rumble dept.

Operating Systems 344

Bananatree3 writes "BBC is currently seeking submissions from all you Microsoft Windows, Mac and Linux devotees "in 100 words or less, why you are such a supporter of your chosen operating system and what features you love about it". They will then select one user of each platform to go head to head in a debate that will be part of the BBC's Microsoft Vista launch coverage on January 30th."

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JEWS DID 9/11 (-1, Troll)

ilovewikipedia (1055570) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750162)

Jewish pedophiles delete GNAA article from Wikipedia
Jewish pedophiles delete GNAA article from Wikipedia
Drake - Nigeria, Weekly Gayzette

The nuts of wikipedos worldwide were ruptured with pleasure today, as the GNAA article was deleted. Due to the rampant amount of homophobic nigger-hate circulating through Wikipedo, the GNAA article was put up for yet another vote for deletion [read as very fat dick] today, its 18th nomination. However, unlike the other 17 consecutive failures, the article was deleted this time.

The articles lengthy and vastly homosexual existence was cut short today when, after being nominated for less than 24 hours, it was deleted by zionist government officials [see: wikipedia editors]. The irony in this comes in the form of the fact that it is written in a certain section of the Talmud [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_p olicy], that an article must remain up for deletion for a minimum of 5 days for discussion and debate purposes before any deletion.

The jew who commenced final delete operation was Andrew J. "Tawker" W[name deleted to protect privacy], a teenage Wikipedo residing in Shithole, Canada and attending a public college together with 16000 other unwashed Canucks.

When asked his opinion on the situation, GNAA president timecop remarked, "lol drama." Truer words have never been spoken, as much lol-inducing drama, and most likely multiple jew lynchings and anallingus seminars will come in the following days.

Want to do your part? Well then, you can either follow the Undeletion request process (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Undeletion _policy.), or you can do your best to continue ruining Wikipedo, preferably the second.

About Wikipedia:

Rule-busting kikes.

About Tawker:

Netcopped.

About GNAA Wikipedia article:

This page has been deleted, and protected to prevent re-creation.

  • If you created a page under this title previously, it has been deleted. For possible reasons, consult the criteria for speedy deletion, or articles for deletion or this article's entry on articles for deletion.
  • Specific information may be found by viewing the activity logs for this page, or by contacting the administrator who protected the page.
  • Administrators may view the page history and content at Special:Undelete/Gay Nigger Association of America.
  • If you reached this page by following a link from another article, you can help Wikipedia by removing inbound links.
  • Restoration can be discussed on the talk page or at Deletion Review.

About GNAA:
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the first organization which gathers GAY NIGGERS from all over America and abroad for one common goal - being GAY NIGGERS.

Are you GAY [klerck.org] ?
Are you a NIGGER [mugshots.org] ?
Are you a GAY NIGGER [gay-sex-access.com] ?

If you answered "Yes" to all of the above questions, then GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) might be exactly what you've been looking for!
Join GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) today, and enjoy all the benefits of being a full-time GNAA member.
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the fastest-growing GAY NIGGER community with THOUSANDS of members all over United States of America and the World! You, too, can be a part of GNAA if you join today!

Why not? It's quick and easy - only 3 simple steps!
  • First, you have to obtain a copy of GAYNIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE THE MOVIE [imdb.com] and watch it. You can download the movie [idge.net] (~130mb) using BitTorrent.
  • Second, you need to succeed in posting a GNAA First Post [wikipedia.org] on slashdot.org [slashdot.org] , a popular "news for trolls" website.
  • Third, you need to join the official GNAA irc channel #GNAA on irc.gnaa.us, and apply for membership.
Talk to one of the ops or any of the other members in the channel to sign up today! Upon submitting your application, you will be required to submit links to your successful First Post, and you will be tested on your knowledge of GAYNIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE.

If you are having trouble locating #GNAA, the official GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA irc channel, you might be on a wrong irc network. The correct network is NiggerNET, and you can connect to irc.gnaa.us as our official server. Follow this link [irc] if you are using an irc client such as mIRC.

If you have mod points and would like to support GNAA, please moderate this post up.

.________________________________________________.
| ______________________________________._a,____ | Press contact:
| _______a_._______a_______aj#0s_____aWY!400.___ | Gary Niger
| __ad#7!!*P____a.d#0a____#!-_#0i___.#!__W#0#___ | gary_niger@gnaa.us [mailto]
| _j#'_.00#,___4#dP_"#,__j#,__0#Wi___*00P!_"#L,_ | GNAA Corporate Headquarters
| _"#ga#9!01___"#01__40,_"4Lj#!_4#g_________"01_ | 143 Rolloffle Avenue
| ________"#,___*@`__-N#____`___-!^_____________ | Tarzana, California 91356
| _________#1__________?________________________ |
| _________j1___________________________________ | All other inquiries:
| ____a,___jk_GAY_NIGGER_ASSOCIATION_OF_AMERICA_ | Enid Al-Punjabi
| ____!4yaa#l___________________________________ | enid_al_punjabi@gnaa.us [mailto]
| ______-"!^____________________________________ | GNAA World Headquarters
` _______________________________________________' 160-0023 Japan Tokyo-to Shinjuku-ku Nishi-Shinjuku 3-20-2

Copyright (c) 2003-2006 Gay Nigger Association of America [www.gnaa.us]

What the hell is wrong with you? (-1, Troll)

ensiferius (999312) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750222)

Would somebody please delete this garbage.

What the fuck is wrong with you? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17750296)

As much as you and I may dislike with GNAA posts, deleting them is not the answer. The Slashdot moderation system already takes care of them pretty quickly. Unless you're browsing at -1, you basically will never see them. Thus they have virtually no effect on you.

Even if Slashdot is a private organization and is thus not bound by such ideals as freedom of speech and freedom of expression, they should acknowledge their American roots and still try to apply such concepts as best as is possible. And in this case, that means not deleting posts that people may disagree with, for whatever reason.

Re:What the fuck is wrong with you? (-1, Offtopic)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750340)

If these people really want to share their GNAA views they should start their own website and post them there.

How is it in the American spirit to support, nay, provide the means, for spreading filth and hate? These GNAA posts are nothing but mindless driven with offensive overtones. Denying them comfort, an audience, and the reaction they unjustly seek is how to not only punish them but address the issue.

Your comment about -1 browsing is akin to "if you don't like being called nigger, maybe you should stay in your part of town." Often there are good comments at -1 (for instance, my pref give AC's all -1 to start). Why should I stop reading at -1 because some malicious, most likely, adolescent prick decides that they trump our rights to a civil [albeit random] discourse?

Tom

Re:What the fuck is wrong with you? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17750392)

Tom, bear in mind that if popular opinion on Slashdot could get posts deleted, yours would be gone in a flash.

Re:What the fuck is wrong with you? (0, Offtopic)

ilovewikipedia (1055570) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750442)

I find it beyond belief that you actually would start a serious discussion regarding freedom of speech like that. Oh well.

Re:What the fuck is wrong with you? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17750458)

The GNAA does have their own web site: http://www.gnaa.us/ [www.gnaa.us]

Tom, I have to admit that I didn't bother to read the rest of your post. It doesn't matter what you say, the fact remains that freedom of expression is paramount. If you did happen to take a stance against it, you're wrong, but you're allowed to express your incorrect stance. If you happened to support free expression, then good for you.

Re:What the fuck is wrong with you? (0, Offtopic)

ilovewikipedia (1055570) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750534)

And you must also consider that this is a very important part of our culture. Please respect our culture.

Re:What the fuck is wrong with you? (-1, Offtopic)

ChameleonDave (1041178) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750694)

they should acknowledge their American roots and still try to apply such concepts as best as is possible.
If I were you, I wouldn't demand that Slashdot behave in an American manner with regards to dissent. Though perhaps with all the ice you're getting in the US at the moment, heading south to sunny Guantánamo wouldn't be too bad.

Re:What the hell is wrong with you? (-1, Offtopic)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750360)

"Do not feed the troll."

I repeat:

"Do not feed the troll."

Every time you reply to a troll, you feed his hunger for attention. If they get hungry enough, they actually DO go away. Unfortunately, people keep feeding them.

No, it just happens that I think the GNAA is one of the funniest troll pieces in existence. I even tried to watch the GNFOS movie once, but it was so amazingly bad that I ended up just skimming it and getting rid of it. To this day, I still want those 10 minutes back.

Don't BAN this user... (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17750228)

... lock the pink OMG-Ponnies CSS in his user preferences...

Re:JEWS DID 9/11 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17750978)

Dear ilovewikipedia,

You seem to have a lot of drive and enthusiasm, which is obviously not finding a productive outlet, have you thought about getting some part-time work in IT? Perhaps try doing some volunteer work!

Maybe you've not yet graduated and are going through that 'difficult' stage. Girls don't seem to like you, the sporty kids bully you. We've all been there, it'll pass. The simple fact that is girls mature faster than boys.

In a few years, you'll look back on these days and laugh! :)

Anyway, take care.

AC.

Jono Bacon (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17750180)

I vote for Jono

Don't apply unless (4, Insightful)

Turn-X Alphonse (789240) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750182)

Don't appply unless you're 20 something and remotely good looking. The BBC recently knee capped their tech presents to only pretty people who don't seem to care even remotely about tech.

Not to mention I've seen nothing but Second life all over the news tech wise in months.

Re:Don't apply unless (3, Insightful)

netpixie (155816) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750234)

Which is why they're having to play this game. They have no-one who knows anything so they're trying to get geeks to do their jobs for them, for free.

Re:Don't apply unless (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17750324)

"Not to mention I've seen nothing but Second life all over the news tech wise in months."

Oh, come now. News organisations (well, Murdoch-owned news organisations) cover MySpace extensively. Why is that, anyway?

Re:Don't apply unless (5, Funny)

FudRucker (866063) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750496)

that counts me out, i am over 40 and as ugly as a mud fence...

Re:Don't apply unless (5, Informative)

slughead (592713) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750572)

Don't appply unless you're 20 something and remotely good looking. The BBC recently knee capped their tech presents to only pretty people who don't seem to care even remotely about tech.

It probably wouldn't make much difference in quality. The last 3 articles on technology I read on the BBC (years ago) were either riddled with misuse of certain words, left out some important and key details, misstated the implications of the story, and/or came up with a very strange and subjective conclusion that came out of the blue.

I've seen this happen elsewhere, so I stopped reading tech news from most places. I will not conjecture on why this is so.

...in 100 words or less (2, Funny)

digitalderbs (718388) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750202)

They should have specified that submissions cannot use words with numbers for the windows crowd. ;p

Let's see... (4, Funny)

$RANDOMLUSER (804576) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750208)

..."in 100 words or less, why you are such a supporter of your chosen operating system"...debate that will be part of the BBC's Microsoft Vista launch coverage...


Because it's not Microsoft Vista?

Thank you, the defense rests.

Re:Let's see... (3, Funny)

omeg (907329) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750628)

Host: So you don't like Microsoft Windows. Care to explain why?

Mac/Linux supporter: (Tosses chair at Microsoft supporter.)

Re:Let's see... (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17750704)


Host: So you don't like Microsoft Windows. Care to explain why?

Mac/Linux supporter: (Tosses chair at Microsoft supporter.)


I'm a GNU/Linux fan, and this post was hilarious. I needed a good laugh this morning, thanks. :-)

No Way! (5, Funny)

camperdave (969942) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750856)

Host: So you don't like Microsoft Windows. Care to explain why?
Mac/Linux supporter: (Tosses chair at Microsoft supporter.)


Toss a chair?! There is no way a Mac/Linux supporter would ever lower themselves enough to toss a chair at a Microsoft Supporter. I don't care how obtuse they're being. It just wouldn't happen, and I find the accusation vaguely insulting.

We would toss the Microsoft supporter at the chair.

Hah. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17750216)

Props to BBC for turning a retarded flamewar into a marketing opportunity. The rest of you can enjoy being tools as your pour your self-righteous OS bullshit into a 100 word form.

Already submitted (1)

ilovegeorgebush (923173) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750218)

I submitted to this a few days back. Some are not shown (I probably wrote over 100 words though...).

What intrigues me is how or where debate will be held. Chat, live? Perhaps i'll just wait for the e-mail...

The winner of the debate will be (5, Insightful)

suso (153703) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750230)

Whoever appeals to the general public and doesn't alienate themself with overly strong opinions. Someone who recognizes strengths and weaknesses in all platforms and summarizes that, but puts a spin on their own favorite platform.

Re:The winner of the debate will be (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17750488)

I predict that the winner will be Steve Ballmer, after bashing everyone's head in with a chair.

Re:The winner of the debate will be (4, Funny)

jamrock (863246) | more than 7 years ago | (#17751048)

"Whoever appeals to the general public and doesn't alienate themself with overly strong opinions. Someone who recognizes strengths and weaknesses in all platforms and summarizes that, but puts a spin on their own favorite platform."

Well, that pretty much disqualifies everyone on Slashdot.

NOT seeking submissions (5, Informative)

Kjella (173770) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750232)

QTFA: "We have received many entries and have now closed the call for submissions. We will be in touch with people shortly. Many thanks for taking part."

When I submitted this article a day ago, (4, Interesting)

Bananatree3 (872975) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750372)

they only had a few submissions. I guess news spreads quickly beyond Slashdot. :)

Context and styles (5, Interesting)

SpanishArcher (974073) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750246)

I foresee a potential disaster in the linux presentation.

It's undoubtful that the most hardcore Free Software fringe of the Linux community has the most public appeal.
I mean...they're somewhat "weird", it's likely that the BBC will chose a super nerdy guy that bitches on everything that is not free software, and the topic will change from a mere technical analysis to the usual religion flamwar.

Windows and OSX will be presented as desktop systems. I doubt the server side of the story will be interesting to the average BBC listener.
Linux, unfortunately, will fail to show its good cards there. I'm not talking about mere graphics, of course, but the whole user friendlyness "from the scratch", hardware support...

I hope the supporters choice will be wise.

Re:Context and styles (1)

xtracto (837672) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750512)

hardware support...

I hope whoever goes there to advocate Linux *does NOT* try to convince people that hardware support is fine on it. We all know and care about the "reality" of Linux (hardware manufacturers not giving drivers at least closed) but normal people will not understand, care and I doubt the advocate will have enough time to explain it.

The best approach will be to stay in the line of "Linux just works, and works great. Just tell your computer-shop to sell you a 'Linux ready ' machine with everything installed". Linux can get really bad advertising if they, for example put 3 computers and choose some random devices and then try to plug them and see what happens... draw you own conclusions.

The other side people *must* use to "sell" Linux for the desktop is the fact that it is free, as in beer. People like free things. Do not enter into details on the philosophy of free software and all that crap. The user does not need to know it. Just "sell" it as *free stuff* and people will get it and give it a try *just* because it is free. But if you continue trying to push the Opensource "free as in libre" people will get scare thinking it is some kind of hippy thing.

Re:Context and styles (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17750696)

it's likely that the BBC will chose a super nerdy guy that bitches on everything that is not free software, and the topic will change from a mere technical analysis to the usual religion flamwar.

Hard to say. I heard something on the BBC about free software, and the open source proponents were well represented and well spoken businessmen. Of course, this was a radio show aimed at the business world, but it demonstrates that there is at least a precedent that they will take this thign seriously.

Re:Context and styles (1)

Jesus_666 (702802) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750722)

Linux does have some strong arguments. We can play the low price and high stability cards. The smart thing would be not to tout Linux as teh bestest system evar but instead as a reliable solution for people who know what they want (and who aren't afraid to do a bit of research before they buy things). Of course Linux doesn't fit everyone, but if you take some time you can (in most cases) get a system that does what you need, period.

Of course, OS X also has some leverage. We can point out that we had the sleekest UI and the hottest features lately - and Leopard looks like it's going to continue that trend. Also, Windows is easy because it's familiar; OS X is easy because it's easy. Plus, it comes with great-looking, silent hardware. Just don't overuse the buzzwords.

Yes, I used "we" for both OSes. I happen to like both.

And don't say... (5, Funny)

inviolet (797804) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750256)

And don't say "fewer attacks and/or security exposures on this OS as compared to Windows", because right now all non-Windows platforms are benefiting from "security through minority".

There's even a dorky genius here on slashdot who posts from his Amiga, and one of the benefits he lists for using steam-powered computing hardware, is the complete absence of any attacks targetting his box. Although he probably has to worry about termites eating his DRAM.

All of that would change if AmigaOS or Linux or whatever became the de facto standard.

Re:And don't say... (1)

jonwil (467024) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750352)

That is not strictly true.

Linux IS more secure than windows.
Windows is insecure because it has to be in order to run all the windows apps (just look at all the apps that wont run except as an administrator, on linux the only programs that wont run except as root are generally either system administration programs that should only be being used when you are doing administration stuff or programs that can run as setuid root (and the number of programs that need to actually run as setuid root are minimal).

Re:And don't say... (1)

simm1701 (835424) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750476)

not to mention the number of programs that while they usually need to run setuid root to start up, usually insist on switching to another user after initialising.

kismet springs to mind, iirc apache does the same (I know it prefers to, cant remember if it insists upon it)

Re:And don't say... (1)

Eivind (15695) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750850)

Apache, for obvious reasons, need to start with sufficient priviledges to bind to port 80.

Traditionally, binding to low ports was a priviledged operation only available to root. This is however currently changing with the introduction of more fine-grained capabilities.

Apache however, was (and is) extremely diligent in using the root-process *only* for opening port 80 and forking the worker-processes which then do all the actual work. (and run as a dedicated user, typically "httpd" or "apache")

I don't think I've seen even a single root-level vulnerability in Apache the last several years. But sure, one could exist, so it'd always be preferable if one could run it with less priviledges.

Running non-root isn't all that (1)

Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750892)

Your point would carry more weight if the really serious problems had anything to do with being root. Unfortunately, for the most part, they don't.

For the vast majority of people and organisations, I suggest that the most damaging actions that malware can take are:

  1. giving your data to others;
  2. changing your data in subtle ways;
  3. stealing your resources.

A virus that causes your system to crash randomly or erases your whole hard drive is annoying, but easily fixed (unless you're naive enough not to make back-ups). These are the sorts of things that not running as root prevent.

But running as root won't prevent phishing, won't prevent a cross-site scripting attack stealing your personal data, won't prevent a SQL injection attack compromising your customer database, won't prevent a virus forwarding your entire e-mail archive to your competitors, and is only partially effective in preventing a stupid user downloading a program that turns your PC into a zombie on a spam botnet.

Re:And don't say... (1)

GMontag (42283) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750382)

And I was just going to go with: "My oppressive corporate overlords only use MS."

Yours is much better!

Re:And don't say... (1)

Hemogoblin (982564) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750386)

Technically it is correct to say non-Windows platforms currently have an advantage in this area. There are less attacks targeting their platform, therefore they are more secure. This is a real and tangible benefit over the foreseable future. It would be perfectly valid to mention this in your response.

You are correct however that the advantage wouldn't remain over the long term if Linux became the global standard.

--
Jim

Re:And don't say... (1)

simm1701 (835424) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750432)

yay go FUD!!!

old old argument, that has been fairly well debunked

windows can be secure, linux and osx can be insecure.

The difference is you turn on a mac and its pretty much secure out of the box - one of the main reasons being you are not running as an admin.

Windows you have to be damn good to get it secure, and it takes a fair amount of effort to make it a usuable experiance as a home PC for somoene not running as an admin - it can be done - but its a bitch to do. In theory vista is "better" at this, though you can hardly award kudos for doing something that every other OS has had right for years.

Windows wins on one thing only - games compatability - and really for that just go buy an xbox/ps2/wii - everything else either is ported or runs fine in wine or parallels (games will run in wine, but its usually non trivial to get it to work)

The security is down to user attitude, default install/shipping modes and developer priority (including that of old code and designs kept for legacy compatability)

Re:And don't say... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17750596)

[market share]old old argument, that has been fairly well debunked

Where? I have yet to see it despite years of asking. And no...Apache versus IIS doesn't debunk the argument.

The difference is you turn on a mac and its pretty much secure out of the box - one of the main reasons being you are not running as an admin.

With this we're in agreement. However insecure out of the box does not mean insecure. Plus you've got exactly five more days to make this argument. Once Vista is released to everyone this argument dies. You might want to think about a new counter argument.

Re:And don't say... (1)

GalionTheElf (515869) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750666)

And no...Apache versus IIS doesn't debunk the argument.
Why the hell not? Perfect example of an open-source being both more wide-spread and more secure than it's ms counter-part. You can't say prove it to me, but only with examples I like.

Re:And don't say... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17751030)

And no...Apache versus IIS doesn't debunk the argument.

Why the hell not? Perfect example of an open-source being both more wide-spread and more secure than it's ms counter-part. You can't say prove it to me, but only with examples I like.
Because it never was true:

1. The ~60% number typically called out for Apache doesn't represent one specific instance of Apache. It consists of a breakdown running on x86, Sparc, MIPS, Alpha, etc. It runs on Linux, Solaris, HP/UX, IRIX, and even Windows. There are two major (now three) versions of Apahce 1.x and 2.x (and now 2.2.x). With how many different minor releases in between? With IIS there are three major versions: 4.0, 5.0, and 6.0 all run on a single platform: x86/Windows. As malware has historically been implementation specific the "Apache versus ISS" argument is a non sequitur. Which version of Apache has ~60% market share?

Think of it this way: You don't walk into an auto parts store and ask for a starter for a car. You provide a specific year, make, model, and possibly package level.

2. I have seen no statistics to support that IIS is exploited more than Apache. Aside from the Code Red worm from 2001 (over five years ago) I haven't heard of any exploits against IIS since the release of IIS 6.0. Can you provide any?

3. The ~60% statistic represents Internet facing web servers only. How many Intranet IIS servers exist? I suspect more than Apache. Again Code Red was so successful because it hit internal web servers as well. Especially taking into consideration that IIS 5.0 was installed and operational on all Windows 2000 Server systems unless the administrator took specific steps to disable/remove it. Many did not.

On the surface Apache versus IIS sounds reasonable. Under closer examination it quickly falls apart.

Re:And don't say... (1)

Straterra (1045994) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750468)

Have you taken a look at the market share for web server software at the moment? Apache currently has 60% of the market while Microsoft only has around 30%. While this is slightly different than the whole GNU/Linux vs. Windows popularity debate, it makes the same point. Also, Linux is fundamentally more secure than Windows for a couple different reasons. One is the history. Windows was originally a single user operating system that was designed with very little to no security in mind. GNU/Linux was based off of Unix and was a true multi-user, multi-tasking operating system from the start. Microsoft had to tack "multi-user" capabilities and security on their single-user operating systems. They have been doing this since the NT days and the problems STILL have not been worked out.

Any operating system is only as secure as its admin allows it to be. Any idiot admin can make any OS insecure. But fundamentally, GNU/Linux had security and the whole idea of multi-user from the start, while Microsoft later tacked it onto their existing products. This is just one of many reasons why the whole "security-by-obfuscation" is for the most part invalid.

(Web server surveys - http://news.netcraft.com/archives/web_server_surve y.html [netcraft.com] )

Re:And don't say... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17750560)

"Microsoft only has around 30%"

That seems REALLY high, I can't name one shop that runs IIS. I know MS fanatics that avoid IIS...

Re:And don't say... (1)

mgiuca (1040724) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750606)

It is correct, according to the Netcraft survey [netcraft.com] . In fact MS has gone up recently - this is attributed to massive amounts of domain names added to Windows Live blogs.

Re:And don't say... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17750716)

It would be nice if Netcraft could somehow determine real sites from parked domains, because I honestly know no one that would run a real site on IIS, that's just asking for trouble.

Re:And don't say... (2, Insightful)

mgiuca (1040724) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750584)

Certainly, "security through minority" is part of it. But you must realise that even if everyone in the world used Linux, it would be far more secure than Windows currently is. (And most of this applies to other non-Windows platforms too).

Linux (and Unix) have a far better security model than Windows. This is mainly because limited accounts have just the right amount of power (and it's configurable, and changeable at the drop of a hat) - so it's perfectly fine to use limited accounts and sudo in to the system when necessary. Windows (XP) has such a shit limited account that nobody can really make any use of it - most programs require admin accounts to play. Thus everyone uses Admin and there is no security. From what I've heard Vista changed this around a bit but limited is still far too restrictive, and there's no "sudo".

Linux also has the sizeable advantage of not having a freaking web browser integrated into its kernel. Furthermore, the web browsers which do run in Linux are not Internet Explorer!

This is just so typical of MS - it would have been far more secure if IE was just another user-level program, like Firefox. But it's such an integral part of Windows - and this is deliberate as a way to dominate the browser market - that any vulnerability in the (highly-vulnerable) browser is a vulnerability in the OS. It is clear that there is a conflict of interest between monopoly and security which goes beyond the simple concept of "security through minority".

(For example, I saw an important Windows security update the other week saying that a vulnerability in IE's vector graphics rendering code could allow an attacker to take control of your computer. If this is possible, what does that say about the entire design of Windows and IE?)

For more examples, Linux doesn't let any program rampantly change the registry, or set itself to run on startup (and that's the main problem with Windows). (In fact for another example, Linux doesn't even have a bloated difficult-to-recover, easy-to-corrupt settings file for all programs). This probably comes back to the fact that Linux users do not normally use root, while Windows users almost always use Admin.

So while there would certainly be a lot more virus and spyware activity in Linux if it had the dominance in the market, it would technically be very difficult to make viruses and spyware run in such a robust security environment. So you still wouldn't get this rampant "normality" of programs which install themselves and slow down your system, eventually bringing it to a standstill. That's a feature of Windows, not simply the "majority" OS.

Re:And don't say... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17750736)

And don't say "fewer attacks and/or security exposures on this OS as compared to Windows", because right now all non-Windows platforms are benefiting from "security through minority".

How about "fewer attacks and/or security exposures per user/server"? You know, like Apache. IIS has a lesser share of the web servers but is hacked about the same.

So... (0, Offtopic)

Pecholata (935280) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750286)

"in 100 words or less"

Does this have something to do with this previous topic?

http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/07/01/24/232 0248.shtml [slashdot.org]

Do the submissions have have to send it using as storage a blood white cell? :-). I'm wondering how many submissions fit into a elephant? haha

Easy (0, Offtopic)

elyons (934748) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750300)

Steve Jobs does not kill kittens.

Re:Easy (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17750454)

Maybe not, but his reputation for being a jerk is of mythical proportions.

Re:Easy (1, Offtopic)

BecomingLumberg (949374) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750664)

Incorrect. *Every* man masturbates.

Re:Easy (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17750804)

Incorrect. *Every* man masturbates.


In that case it is the kitten killing deity who dislikes masturbation, not the masturbatory offender, that does the actual kitten killing.
I'm a lawyer for Apple by the way.

Re:Easy (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17750880)

As a cat hater, I'm not sure I'm seeing your statement the way you meant it...

Already Closed (0, Redundant)

mfh (56) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750328)

We have received many entries and have now closed the call for submissions. We will be in touch with people shortly. Many thanks for taking part.

Hmmm, interesting.

I Like Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17750336)

Dear BBC,

I like Linux. It is the best. I think that everybody should use Linux.

-- Rob M.

CP/M all the way! (1)

LiTa03 (879539) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750370)

... like this guys says [google.com] .

(google cached copy provided in case he runs his webserver on CP/M)

Re:CP/M all the way! (1)

mgiuca (1040724) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750718)

Hrm... this concept is (obviously a joke, but still) pretty stupid.

I did like some parts though:

On the other hand a Window-NT system in the configuration that Microsoft likes to use for benchmarking will probably cost you about $100,000. This includes the price of the hardware, software, and the cost of hiring a team of Microsoft Engineers for three months to tune your system for optimal performance.

Scary.. (1)

Turn-X Alphonse (789240) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750380)

Did anyone else notice the huge amount of Windows users bashing Apple?

I find it ironic that "Vendor lock-in" and "Trying to take control of your PC" is an argument FOR microsoft against anyone. It's like the kettle went into a coal mine before starting a fight with the pot.

Re:Scary.. (5, Interesting)

Don_dumb (927108) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750536)

What I noticed from the comments, is that it seems most people who have tried multiple systems, prefer Mac or Linux. Most people who prefer Windows have ONLY ever used Windows, which defeats their arguments, they dont even know an alternative to compare against, they are simply saying a computer is better than not having a computer.

That to me would seem to be the best argument for a non-windows supporter, "I KNOW there are better OSes because I have actually used them".

Re:Scary.. (1)

Turn-X Alphonse (789240) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750594)

I've used both Windows and Linux and honestly I think both have a time and a place. Windows advantages and disadvantages would switch with Linux if they were in the opposit position.

The 'only' thing I would say is "Linux is better for basic functions, it's easier to navigate to firefox and you don't have to worry about viruses.' But the average user will never find Linux, so whis is a non-issue.

Re:Scary.. (0, Flamebait)

dave420 (699308) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750824)

I've used OSX, Linux and Windows extensively, and Windows has the best balance for me. I like to use the keyboard whenever I can, so OSX is out. I like playing games so Linux is out. That doesn't leave me much choice.

Coming next (3, Funny)

Silver Sloth (770927) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750396)

emacs vs vi

Re:Coming next (3, Funny)

Undertaker43017 (586306) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750622)

Eclipse, the emacs for a new generation!

It's 2007 (5, Interesting)

suv4x4 (956391) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750402)

There's no "good OS", "bad OS" anymore. We have a developed industry and specialization. We have a bunch of OS that are all good, but for vastly different purposes.

My web servers run on BSD and Linux (simple, secure, stable, proven, ... free).
My designers run Apple-s (cultural phenomenon, the whole product line speaks "design", good software, user friendly).
Most of my developers and my accountant run on Windows (user friendly /less than Mac, but not a lot/, lots of software, superb dev tools).

When you grow up, you realize there's no place for favoritism and politics in here, just tools you pick depending on your task.

That said I suspect Apple supporters will come out the winners from the BBC competition. It's purely a branding thing, and entirely predictable: all Apple does it cool (good job, Steve & co!), all Microsoft does is not cool (with power comes resp... come the obligatory haters), and all Linux does, is way too geeky (by geeks, for geeks) and no one in the general public cares.

Re:It's 2007 (1, Flamebait)

Turn-X Alphonse (789240) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750650)

I agree with what you've said completely but I'm also sad about it.

Recently I had to dick around with OS and the general fun of things not working. When I was trying to pick which Linux distro to use or to stick with Windows, I came to the conclusion that "Everythings a bitch and has problems". Where as if everyone had stopped being dicks and gone "screw this, lets just make a great OS" together we could have the most amazing thing ever.

If humanity got it's act together we would have our Jetson's world by now, but instead we're too busy focusing on money and pointlessly shit to do it. Which is really a shame.

Re:It's 2007 (2, Informative)

shish (588640) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750810)

Where as if everyone had stopped being dicks and gone "screw this, lets just make a great OS" together we could have the most amazing thing ever.

Newsflash: Communism doesn't work in practice. Competition is the biggest motivation for improvement; with only one OS, we'd have all the problems of a monopoly, but worse~

Re:It's 2007 (1)

dk.r*nger (460754) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750916)

If humanity got it's act together we would have our Jetson's world by now, but instead we're too busy focusing on money and pointlessly shit to do it. Which is really a shame.

Oh come-fucking-on. Yes, if humanity got its act together and did everything your way, we'd have your perfect world by now. Only, I probably wouldn't like it, and I'd post comments saying "If only people would do things MY way, then...".

Newsflash, buddy: There can be no universal consensus on how the world should look - people are too different, and thank God for that. As a result of that there can be no one operating system that fits everbody perfectly.

The cool thing about Linux and FOSS is that you can, if you want it enough (Hello, Mark Shuttleworth), roll your own version that fits your view of the world. In Microsofts world you can change your desktop wallpaper and screensaver, and you better like it.

Re:It's 2007 (1)

B0red At W0rk (876713) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750738)

Since this will occur on Vista's launch day, I find it hard to imagine how someone can argue for the qualities of an OS they haven't used for any significant amount of time.

Re:It's 2007 (3, Interesting)

oliverthered (187439) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750832)

Apple may win because it's the 'best' of both worlds, a posix core with lots of drivers that god a nice gui and is easy to configure the basic stuff with many commercial applications.

Where it falls down is that it's expensive and has serious vendor lock-in problems, two really big points on my shopping list.

I loves the Vista (5, Funny)

CmdrGravy (645153) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750416)

I submitted something to this yesterday but I think they've stopped taking submissions now.

I repeat what I wrote here for the benefit of you all and the good of society in general:

"Vista is best computer. it plays all my games just with putting in the disk and cliking on the mouse, i like the internets also and just with clicking the OKs it works really good in Vista.

My frend works in IT and he says that linux is rubbish and you cant even put in the dvds and theirs no games and he says no proper business would use it because it wont let microsoft run their programs on it so it is useless for all serious things. That is another reason why i use Vista because its good and i can use it for business too if i wanting to.

Mac is too expensive and will get too dirty cos its white"

Re:I loves the Vista (1)

wastaz (634441) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750636)

You, my friend, win 3 intrawebs. Please apply at your local intraweb office to get your price.

Re:I loves the Vista (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17750644)

You've nailed it. Send Borat to speak on behalf of Vista.

I also submitted something. (3, Funny)

Jesus_666 (702802) | more than 7 years ago | (#17751076)

i use teh linux cuz i r a 31337 h4xx0r0r & ur box will be 0wned by me cuz im so 1337 & all 1337 h4xx0r0rs use teh linux and teh intarnet runs on teh linux also

See you in the studio!

I use OpenVMS and OpenBSD (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17750438)

Everybody laughs at my collection of VAX machines, but I've never had a virus/worm/trojan attack me and my house doesn't need extra heating in the Winter.
However, it takes me 2 minutes to open up a SSH connection, five minutes to boot, and my network card (although it is 10Mbps) max transfer rate is 500Kbps.
Oh well..tradeoffs everywhere...

TDz.

Re:I use OpenVMS and OpenBSD (1)

Undertaker43017 (586306) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750760)

"five minutes to boot"

Wow, you must have gotten one of the good VAXen. Fast boot times, and a 10Mbps network card, aren't you Mr. Fancypants!!!

Let it BeOS (1)

Konster (252488) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750464)

No mention of BeOS or O/S2 Warp. :(

Eh? (3, Funny)

SinGunner (911891) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750466)

So, the BBC is just too burnt out to cover this one themselves? I don't know about you, but I don't feel like watching some inexperienced laymans' debate unless they're required to drink a beer every 10 minutes and are given the ability to electrically shock eachother which they are strictly told to "only use as an extreme measure".

Re:Eh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17750566)

They didnt get the increase in funding from the licensing fee that they wanted, perhaps this is one of their ways of cutting costs? :)

One Hundred... Try One (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17750516)

I can do it with one word.

Linux: Freedom.
Windows: Legacy.
Apple: Experience.

American Psycho ? (2, Interesting)

CmdrGravy (645153) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750564)

Reading this submission from the BBC site

"It seems to be very stable, and I have had few problems with the final release copy. I am sure the general public will enjoy its user friendly features. I recommend the Business or Ultimate versions, since they have the Complete PC. Backup feature, which I have found to be about the most useful feature of Vista since if one has a good backup to a secondary hard drive, DVD or External Hard Drive, it can save a lot of time in system reconstruction in case of hackers or system failures. I think the general and business community will save many millions if not billions of hours by using Vista. Mike Scott"

For some reason reminds me the cosmetic and grooming regime and genesis vs phil collins bits in American Psycho which obviously opens the debate as to whether all Windows users are closet psychopaths.

Re:American Psycho ? (1)

B0red At W0rk (876713) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750660)

If that's the case, our world's future is pretty bleak... oh wait..

I hope this isn't anything to do with 'Click' (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17750570)

'Click', for those of you who don't know, is BBC News 24's tech show that caters for idiots who think they are hip and trendy because they write emails and know what flashmobbing means.

I don't know why I watch it; I guess its because its the only show on all of British TV about computers and technology. I wish they'd get their act together and make a program in the style of Working Lunch (about business) or Daily Politics that caters for the IT folks - surely there are enough of us these days.

Re:I hope this isn't anything to do with 'Click' (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17750768)

I can see it now. The lights come up to reveal a bearded geek, encamped behind a low desk that is covered in bits of old hardware, books (held open with other bits of old hardware), assorted and hard to identify cables and discarded coke cans. He ignores the camera for the entire 30 minutes, as he's too busy doing something more interesting.

It could work.

MHO (1)

chord.wav (599850) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750578)

As William Walllace said once before getting his guts out:

FREEEEEEEDDOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

in 100 words or less (1)

rjdegraaf (712353) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750586)

in just eight words?

Re:in 100 words or less (1)

PeterBrett (780946) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750894)

in just eight words?

Windoze is teh suck, Macs R 4 lusers!

It's about morality (4, Insightful)

linuxdoctor (126962) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750590)

For me the issue has always been more about the morality than the technology. Proprietary vs Free/Open Source. Monopoly vs diversity. Most importantly I consider the nature of the people/companies delivering the products. We all know that Microsoft software is incredibly unrealiable, insecure and too big and slow, but even if they were delivering the best software in the world I would never buy or use it if I had the choice. It is because I object to and abhor their business practices.

Microsoft itself has been mired in legal problems almost from its inception. It is probably the most sued company on the planet and it has been convicted of economic crimes in many different countries. They then simply ignore whatever legal judgements against them using their incredible financial clout to challenge whatever the courts rule. They seem to be completely immoral. It is for moral reasons more than anything else that keeps me away from using their software.

Yes, technology is important, but morality is even more important.

Re:It's about morality (2, Interesting)

dave420 (699308) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750878)

No. To most people computers are tools, not a political statement. They don't care about open/closed source, as long as their computer does what they want. Just look at cars - people drive petrol cars instead of more clean alternatives, simply because it's easier, and they do what the drivers want. It's the same with operating systems. I sit down in front of my computer to achieve something, not to look at it and think to myself "I can edit the source code for everything I can see". If Linux doesn't allow me to do what I want, I don't use it. It's that simple. And the market seems to agree with me.

Grammar (1)

mr_squig (904866) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750626)

Should that not read "in 100 words or fewer"

Fewer words, less text when I was in school!

Fanboy Arguments (2, Funny)

gsslay (807818) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750634)

If reading OS fanboy arguments online isn't enought for you, now you can experience the towering tedium of them live on TV! Thanks BBC!

Simplest terms... (1)

Capt James McCarthy (860294) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750754)

Surf the Web, receive/send email, watch videos, secure the system, and know what exactly what the system is doing or not doing, all at a cost of nothing but time. Games are dependent upon platform they are developed for. That should hit the 90 percentile.

Just asking for it.... (2, Insightful)

PinkyDead (862370) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750786)

Ok, so this is probably asking for flame but when you look at the comments on the site there are two consistent patterns:

Either,

"I've always used Windows, never used Linux/OSX - Love Windows, Linux/OSX sucks".

or

"I used to use Windows, switched to Linux/OSX - Love Linux/OSX, Windows sucks".

I know that's what everyone mostly hears anyway and I know there are Windows users out there who can genuinely say, based on proper comparisons, that Windows is best for them - but the uninformed Windows user really sounds pathetic.

And the guy complaining about Apple charging for wireless unlike Microsoft - that's just funny.

Typical divisions (3, Interesting)

smoker2 (750216) | more than 7 years ago | (#17750920)

I saw this on the BBC's website yesterday, and the usual characteristics showed up immediately.

Windows supporters claim their OS is the best, because a) most of them aren't aware of what an OS actually is, b)It means they don't have to think about what they're doing, c)they're already using it so it must be the best, right ?

Mac supporters claim theirs is the best because, a)it looks so much better than any of the others, and b)everything just works (never mind that it is built using only known and defined hardware).

Linux supporters claim theirs is the best because a)it's free, b)it's not vulnerable to viruses, and c)it's not Windows or Mac.


I placed my comment on there stating my support for GNU/Linux, as in my opinion, it remains the only OS (with respect to the BBCs question) which is designed to be used as a general purpose computing system. Windows is a black box, and does it's best to restrict the users. Macs are designed for ease of use and visual appearance, not for maximum flexibility. Linux is designed to be flexible, in every sense possible. It can look as good or better than a Mac, it is not restrictive in any meaningful way, it is open to change and despite what the big two like to promote - it is not difficult to use. I don't care whether people think it's "ready for the desktop" because these people really have no concept of what a computer is for, they just want an appliance. That's up to them, but for myself, I would rather have something that can perform virtually any computing task I throw at it, and not have to pay through the nose to be a part of somebody elses restricted vision.

Of course my post on the BBC was somewhat more succinct than that, as 100 words is really far too short to make a serious point about anything.

Also, I take any opinion espoused by the BBC as suspect, because they are fairly IT illiterate themselves (at least in their reporting staff). They consider a rootkit "a virus" Pop quiz [bbc.co.uk] , and a pc is nearly always considered to be running Windows [bbc.co.uk] . I must admit, incidences of "forward slash" on TV are getting less gradually. (before you start, how many times do you use the term "full colon" to differentiate from a "semi colon" ?)

I LOVE Windows! (2, Funny)

Jotii (932365) | more than 7 years ago | (#17751016)

And when the show starts, I will resign and agree to all of the Linux supporter's statements.

the best guy for this job - (2, Funny)

hellboy_ga (1055606) | more than 7 years ago | (#17751058)

We all know who is the best!, Call up Guy Goma (the wrong guy, http://www.guygoma.com/ [guygoma.com] )!

Karen Bowerman: Well, Guy Kewney is editor of the technology website Newswireless.

Goma: (Face of horror)

KB: Hello, good morning to you. Goma: Good morning. KB: Were you surprised by this verdict today? Goma: I am very surprised to see...this verdict to come on me, because I was not expecting that. When I came, they told me something else and I am coming. You got an interview that's all. So a big surprise anyway. KB: A big surprise, yeah, yes. Goma: Exactly. KB: With regards to the costs involved, do you think now more people will be using pirated windows? Goma: Actually, if you can go everywhere you're gonna see a lot of people downloading to the Internet and the website, and everything they want. But I think it is much better for the development and...eh...to inform people what they want and to get the easy way and so faster if they are looking for. KB: It does really seem to be the way the OS industry's progressing now, that people want to get OSs for free. Goma: Exactly. You can go everywhere on the cyber cafe, and you can take...you can go easy. It is going to be an easy way for everyone to get something to the Internet. KB: Guy Kewney, thanks very much indeed.
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