How Safe is Your Employment Application Data? 74
Carlos asks: "I recently returned to the U.S. after working overseas for the past 16 years. As I visit job sites and corporate sites, I'm finding two issues with applying online I hope Slashdot readers could comment on. I understand security and background checks are important to most employers. However, it seems to me that far too many online applications are asking for sensitive data, such as my social security number and driver's license number. How long is my data stored in their database? Who has access to such data? It seems that every month we hear about a company that has customer/client data stolen or mishandled. I feel that such data shouldn't be required during 'step one' (ie filling out the initial online account in the career section). I'll provide such data when I've been contacted by a staff for an interview. Do Slashdot readers simply bypass such employers, or do they just hand over their identity?"
Another point relates to the pages upon pages we have to endure with an online application. Some companies make the process smooth, for example using a form of OCR with an uploaded resume. There's nothing worse than getting to step 9 (out of 20 steps) and getting a timeout error in your browser. I hope HR people who are reading this, will take a closer look at their employment process. I'm sure some readers might say, 'They make the process hard on purpose — weeding out the lazy applicants.' I fully understand this point and I'm not looking for an easy way into a company, but filling out 20 step applications at 30 companies a day, everyday, can eat a lot of time when hunting for a position."
WTF is this? (Score:2, Funny)
I'm a little paranoid, so what is this supposed to tell me? My employment application data is really safe, because it isn't here to see; or, there is nothing to see because things are so bad that my data is all over the internet and I shouldn't even bother asking how many people have applied for credit in my name?
3P's (Score:3, Insightful)
They get the SSN when you get a job. Your license number isn't really sensetive.
Re:3P's (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, this is true, but they don't need that info until they draw up the offer letter.
Re:3P's (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, this is true, but they don't need that info until they draw up the offer letter.
Nice thought, but if you are filling out job applications on-line you are most likely not in the position to set any conditions (as opposed to using a headhunter or contacts within the company, in which case you aren't seen as riff-raff off the street.)
I'd also add that with most companies, withholding any information they ask for will raise a red flag. If you don't provide a SSN or license number or whatever else when asked they will immediately assume you have something to hide-- such as a criminal history, a DUI, heavy outstanding debts or a lien against your wages, or the lack of legal work status. Asserting that they do not have the right to ask can just mark you as "trouble"... Companies don't tend to like employees who know their rights and take a stand to protect them.
I'm not saying it's right, but that's the way it is. They're looking for any reason they can NOT to hire you and refusing to play along will seriously hurt your chances. Telling them they can't have your SSN until you get a contract or serious offer will, in most cases, mean you won't get it at all.
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I'd also add that with most companies, withholding any information they ask for will raise a red flag. If you don't provide a SSN or license number or whatever else when asked they will immediately assume you have something to hide-- such as a criminal histor
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Not if you like working that is.
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Think about what you're suggesting. You want a job with a company that requires this sensitive date BEFORE even offering you a job...BEFORE even meeting you?
Dude, you deserve what you get. We're not slaves you know. Have some self respect and stand up for yourself already!
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If I was to paint any group with a wide brush as 'riff-raff off the street' it would have to be the headhunters. Though they are pretty much the only game in town nowadays.
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If we all did that, they wouldn't have much choice, would they? Not asserting your rights to avoid raising red flags will cost you those rights. We protect our rights by using them, and if the company thinks you're some kind of criminal for it, then we need to send the collective message of "screw you". If we accept this kind of treatment, then we shouldn't complain when the righ
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Second, I disagree that not giving your SSN marks you as a person with "something to hide". Most companies are sensitive to people's desire to keep certain information private, given all of the press that "identify theft" is getting these days. Any HR drone who would think of y
SSAN not needed and should not be given (Score:1)
Yes, this is true, but they don't need that info until they draw up the offer letter.
Actually they don't need the SSAN until they fill out the W-2 or W-5 so they can pay you. Not a second earlier.
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My suspicion is that the asking for such data is just a result of the screening company saying "we need these data" and the braindead HR department doing it because of policy: "Get a background screening on all applicants."
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There is simply no reason for a company to _require_ a SSN before offering a job. You just have in the contract a clause that states as long as the background check doesn't come back with anything that wasn't already disclosed before offering the job, they get to keep it. Otherwise the contract is rendered null and void.
There is NO good reason for a company to ask for this before offering a job. None. If they do, they're either shady, stupid, or complacent. None being qualities I'd suggest lookin
You're right (Score:2)
I'm going to change that at our place, however. This article is quite enlightening.
Perhaps the Federal Government needs to make it a law that this be concealed on all apps until the employer is actually willing to do a background check at which time they will show due diligence in protecting that info.
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Not really (Score:2)
So some companies won't make you an offer until the can check you accuracy. The can then relate this against your resume to see if they jive.
license number sensitivity (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not sure if I agree. I think the issue here is that you can't predict who is using the license number and how, and frankly, I don't think people have become particularly creative with misusing the license number (which, in most states, if not all states, is a fixed number.)
I think this will become an issue with time. It's becoming a back up to the SSN, and since it seems to be on the same path that the SSN was on in the late 70s/early 80s, then I'm going to saf
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http://www.highprogrammer.com/alan/numbers/dl_us_
Make privacy the law! Ban use of SSNs. (Score:1)
What would be nice is a strict privacy law that prevents SSNs for being used for anything other than communications with the IRS. Credit bureaus, banks, potential (not actual) employers, would be liable for a large penalty under such a law for even asking about your SSN unless they have already hired you or genera
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I would omit sensitive data (Score:1)
I don't give a fuck about... (Score:3, Insightful)
Not worried about employment application data (Score:2)
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One of your colleages was Edward Nigma? [wikipedia.org]
I'm not surprised you were looking for another job.
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You shouldn't (only) be using web pages (Score:3, Informative)
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Hunters find good people in jobs already, Agents deal with every one. You cant contact a head hunter, they come to you.
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Typically head hunters do more legwork, reach the feelers out farther, have more contacts in the right industry, and charge more accordingly. That is all. They are merely recruiters that have proven their ability to excel at finding the right person for the job.
A good headhunter would never make their job so hard as to have to go out cold and 'find' someone for the job like you suggest. They would also never limit themselves to people that are currently working somewhere.
BTW,
i know where my data is (Score:1)
technically illegal (Score:4, Informative)
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Race is generally optional on the applications I've seen, with a disclaimer stating that the data is only voluntarily requested for EEOC documentation purposes only.
DL is one of the secondary forms of ID asked for to prove citizenship or work eligibility by the government.
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I can get benefits for applying? Cooooooooooooool!
KFG
DL? pfft (Score:2)
some states may deny DL to people not elegible to work,
not all of them
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http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-9.pdf
That should settle the argument.
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NEVER offer up this information before actually being hired. Just Don't Do It. It's simply a bad idea.
Nevermind entering that information ONLINE somewhere! Never Never Never!
If they want that information, they can give you a contract to sign FIRST. Period.
If you don't follow this advice, well don't come crying to me about it when things go bad.
On the other front, I do know that the company I work for keeps any confidential data l
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Don't worry... (Score:4, Interesting)
No one knows it's there except the HR drone that hid them, and the closet is locked because it also contains said HR drones stash of candy and Garfield posters.
In fact, it's probably better protected than information people want. In those same places, sales records, customer billing info and record on current employees were treated with less security.
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Bah! You're assuming any company I'd be willing to trust with my retirement is also willing to trust day to day operations to "That Suckwell thing Microsoft sold us" or, heaven forbid, the IT department.
That sucker went into a HR-drone's mailbox the instant you hit "Submit Form".
and since it's usually more effort to remove old data then let it hang around, I would guess that a lot of it
Not very. (Score:3, Interesting)
Be Careful of ID Theft (Score:2, Interesting)
I am sure that you are doing your homework on the companies that you are applying to. But it is necessary to restate that if you are going to ask f
Multi-stage applications (Score:2, Interesting)
I fully appreciate this idea. Jobhunting is a two way process. I reject any company that has an annoying inflexible application process on the theory that they would be annoying inflexible companies to work for. Of course, for certain jobs, I recommend the right sort of lazy. A clever lazy person will do a job in a way that means all dependent tasks can be done in half the time.
my experience as a criminal background researcher (Score:5, Interesting)
a.) I receive the lists of people to check over a non-encrypted HTTP connection. These lists include name, DOB and SSN. (I'll admit to making it worse by accessing this non-encrypted website over my neighbors open wi-fi connection.)
b.) The background checking company gives no instructions about how to treat the data, how to destroy the data after it's been used, etc...all of which seem de rigeur in today's world.
c.) The issues applying to a.) also apply to the government court websites used to check the data.
Background checking companies are often just run by ex HR people, and, as you can expect, many of them are not trained in security issues like this.
Be Careful of ID Theft (Repost) (Score:1, Redundant)
So what? (Score:2)
I made changes (Score:3, Informative)
I made changes after getting a call from a local IT services company that said they had two of me in their database and wanted to resolve the discrepancy and update my information. What made that unusual is that I'd never applied for a job with them, they were collecting the data from Dice. That was a couple years ago.
What I started doing was stripping all the data out of my old profile and created a new one with the last name of Notdisclosed, or something like that. Then I stripped out my employer names and dates, created a new email address, and replaced my phone number with a message only number.
I have my own company and won't be applying for jobs anymore and their data is getting older by the day. This is going to be an ongoing problem with companies mining online sources for their own systems, but who knows how good their security is? Or if they even have any?
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It sounds like your experience is another example of pain from putting sensitive information on-line (in this case, on Dice) without fully appreciating the possible results. That in turn is an example of a wider problem: giving up sensitive information to anyone who doesn't have a vested interest in storing, using and destroying it properly.
An entire generation is about to learn from this mistake, but probably suffer its consequences for much of the rest of their lives. I imagine the problems will eventua
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Application by shotgun . . . (Score:1)
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Because most people, when considering the factors that lead to job satisfaction, would rank pay, title, responsibilities, etc. as more important than which company they work for?
I don't care if my employer is Spacely Sprockets or Cogswell Cogs, as long as I get paid well to apply and develop my skills. And even if I really DID want to wor
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You would be the exception, because you knew enough about the two to determine that you *wanted* to be at Spacely. Why do you want to be at Spacely?
Most applicants these days just blast the resume at both, hope one of em sticks and that the pay/perks/title fall within the range they can tolerate.
My point was that most employers that are actually GOOD to employees, and who want to hire quality people, will find a way to hire you if they find you desirable. So what if Spacely has no open
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While I agree with you that researching a company is valuable, there are limits. Things change so quickly now that people need to look to the shorter and shorter term - companies do.
Companies no longer expect employees to remain through thick and thin. In good times, they pay a premium. In bad times, they have layoffs. As evidence, consider the weight that
Who has access to such data? (Score:1)
Better employment strategies (Score:2, Insightful)
It is a far better use of your time to talk with the people who would become your future co-workers.
Additional Rule of Thumb: The company/agency will be as careful with your application data as it will be with your employee data.
Simple answers (Score:1)
not until I get an offer (Score:2)
Look around the website (Score:2)
First off, there should be a privacy policy covering the website. As an random example, Best Buy refers applicants to a third party with a decent policy [unicru.com]. If there isn't one, it's grossly inadequate, or the policy should preclude asking for such information, then look around some more. Most companies have some manner of contact information available; politely asking for someone with the legal department usually gets you somewhere quickly. Politely inquire about the privacy policy and whatever deficiencies t
Duplicate data all over the place (Score:1)