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HP Accused of Spying on Dell

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the only-surprising-in-that-we're-hearing-about-it dept.

HP 82

An anonymous reader writes "An ex-HP exec claims he was instructed by the company's management to spy on Dell's printer business plans. Karl Kamb, previously HP's vice president of business development and strategy, was named as a defendant in a federal lawsuit filed by HP in 2005, after he allegedly began his own company before leaving HP. Kamb, who has denied any wrongdoing, filed a countersuit in US District Court for the Eastern District of Texas claiming he was fired because of shading dealings involved in the corporate espionage. From the article: 'As a member of HP's imaging and printing group's "competitive intelligence team", Kamb said he was in a position to know that HP senior executives signed off on a plan to pay [Former Dell Japan President Katsumi] Iizuka to obtain details of what Dell was up to. Iizuka turned over the information to Kamb and he passed it along to HP, Kamb claimed.'"

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Fuck You Twofo Fucktards (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17753164)

Twofo [twofo.co.uk] Is Dying
It is official; Netcraft confirms: Twofo is dying

One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleagured University of Warwick [warwick.ac.uk] filesharing community when ITS confirmed that Twofo total share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all file sharing. Coming hot on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that Twofo has lost more share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. Twofo is collapsing in complete disarry, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Student comprehensive leeching test.

You don't need to be one of the Hub Operators to predict Twofo's future. The hand writing is on the toilet wall: Twofo faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for Twofo because Twofo is dying. Things are looking very bad for Twofo. As many of us are already aware, Twofo continues to lose users. Fines and disconnections flow like a river of feces [tubgirl.com] .

N00b Campus users are the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of their total share. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time Twofo sharers fool_on_the_hill and Twinklefeet only serves to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: Twofo is dying.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

Sources indicate that there are at most 150 users in the hub. How many filelists have been downloaded? Let's see. 719. But 1621 IP addresses have been logged, and 1727 nicks have been sighted connecting to one user over the last term. How many searches are there? 600 searches in 3 hours. The highest sharer on campus, known as "firstchoice", or Andrew.Maddison@warwick.ac.uk in real life, was sharing over 1 TiB, despite working in ITS and not being on the resnet. He's only there so people off campus who think they're too good for bittorrent can continue to abuse the University's internet connection.

Due to troubles at the University of Warwick, lack of internet bandwidth, enforcements of Acceptable Usage Policies, abysmal sharing, retarded leechers, clueless n00bs, and ITS fining and disconnecting users, Twofo has no future. All major student surveys show that Twofo has steadily declined in file share. Twofo is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If Twofo is to survive at all it will be among p2p hardcore fuckwits, desperate to grab stuff for free off the internet. Nothing short of a miracle could save Twofo from its fate at this point in time. For all practical purposes, Twofo is dead.

Fact: Twofo is dying

All bureaucracies tend this way... (4, Interesting)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#17753204)

...at least, if they are successful. The purpose of a bureaucracy is to self-perpetuate, like any organism. It is powered by the enlightened self-interest of the employees within it. Every bureaucracy, if left unchecked, will seek to expand itself. Individuals within it may have morality but the organism as a whole does not.

To see these organizations spying is not a shock. If you let them continue to grow they will each run up against each other and start trying to find ways to subsume the others. It doesn't really matter to the consumer since each one is pretty much the sum of its parts...

Re:All bureaucracies tend this way... (1)

LaughingCoder (914424) | more than 7 years ago | (#17753492)

Every bureaucracy, if left unchecked, will seek to expand itself. Individuals within it may have morality but the organism as a whole does not.
This is interesting. I can't help but think of governments, which are the ultimate in large bureaucracies. If success is a criteria for an organization to begin exhibiting "immoral" attributes, then is the key to prevent your government from acting immorally to make sure your government is not "successful"? And if that is the case, how does one define success for a government? If one uses the usual definition of a successful government, that would probably mean a happy (safe, well-cared for, healthy), thriving populace. But by your theory then, that leads to an immoral government, and so it is better in the long run if your government is not successful, and your people are unhappy. But unhappy people usually revolt and overturn the government, with the hope of installing a government that will make them happy (thereby restarting the cycle). Quite a conundrum.

Re:All bureaucracies tend this way... (3, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#17753680)

This is interesting. I can't help but think of governments, which are the ultimate in large bureaucracies.

That is of course precisely what I intended to suggest. Spying is something every government does every day.

If success is a criteria for an organization to begin exhibiting "immoral" attributes, then is the key to prevent your government from acting immorally to make sure your government is not "successful"? And if that is the case, how does one define success for a government?

If you define success for the organization itself - not that which it serves, but simply that which is good for the entity - then it can only be through longevity, proliferation, and security.

If one uses the usual definition of a successful government, that would probably mean a happy (safe, well-cared for, healthy), thriving populace. But by your theory then, that leads to an immoral government, and so it is better in the long run if your government is not successful, and your people are unhappy.

Well there's [at least] two conclusions you could quickly and yet reasonably come to. One is that a government actually capable of serving its citizens wouldn't be large because the needs of the people do not include large government. The Federal Government of the USA is the largest employer in the nation, with Wal-Mart in the #2 spot. Does this really serve the people?

The other is that yes, the very existence of government leads to an immoral government over time, simply because it is a bureaucracy, and that's what bureaucracies do. They consolidate and preserve power.

Besides other possible conclusions there's a third view that lies somewhere in between; government will proliferate but if you force it to stay smaller then it more accurately serves the will of the people. In cases where the public does not agree on a course of action, and no one is being harmed, the government should do nothing. This is of course not how the system has worked over time. Law seeks to erase ambiguities but life is about them in a very real way and in any case is made up of them. Very few things are black and white in this world (newspapers stand out as a glaring exception. thanks, I'll be here all week.)

But unhappy people usually revolt and overturn the government, with the hope of installing a government that will make them happy (thereby restarting the cycle).

The problem is that not enough limits are placed on government. The constitution didn't explicitly say that anything not in the document can be shoved straight up your ass. Or that no amendment shall be passed which limits your rights. Only one amendment like that has ever been passed so far; prohibition. As we know, it was repealed. But there are occasionally calls for others and sooner or later one of them will pass.

Re:All bureaucracies tend this way... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17754532)

The Federal Government of the USA is the largest employer in the nation, with Wal-Mart in the #2 spot. Does this really serve the people?
At the very least it helps the government's employees by providing them with jobs. Then it helps people that rely on government services. Then it helps other people because all these people are employed or are getting government assistance, so they can spend more. So, yes.

At least that's the idea.

Re:All bureaucracies tend this way... (1)

LaughingCoder (914424) | more than 7 years ago | (#17755090)

At the very least it helps the government's employees by providing them with jobs. Then it helps people that rely on government services. Then it helps other people because all these people are employed or are getting government assistance, so they can spend more.
... at Walmart.

Re:All bureaucracies tend this way... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17755792)

The problem is that not enough limits are placed on government. The constitution didn't explicitly say that anything not in the document can be shoved straight up your ass. Or that no amendment shall be passed which limits your rights.
10th amendment should apply, but it always seems to be interpreted as a union/state separation issue rather than a power limitation issue.

Re:All bureaucracies tend this way... (2, Informative)

MyOtherUIDis3digits (926429) | more than 7 years ago | (#17756146)

The other is that yes, the very existence of government leads to an immoral government over time, simply because it is a bureaucracy, and that's what bureaucracies do. They consolidate and preserve power.

And this is exactly why the forefathers included the 2nd Amendment. The explicit purpose of keeping "a well regulated militia" and preserving "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" was to keep the government in check with the threat of being overthrown by the people should the need arise. Thomas Jefferson estimated that this should probably happen about once every 20 years.

bureaucracy != corporate espionage (4, Insightful)

Vellmont (569020) | more than 7 years ago | (#17753638)

You're confusing expansion of a company into ever increasing markets with illegal behaviour. All businesses will try to expand to whatever capacity they can sustain. But that doesn't mean it's inevidible they'll engage in illegal behaviour like is alleged here.

I don't expect large companies to behave ethically (small companies maybe). They'll do whatever they like without regard to anyone else. I do expect companies to behave within the bounds of the law. They often don't of course, but my point is that illegal behaviour isn't a given for a company.

Re:bureaucracy != corporate espionage (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#17753748)

You're confusing expansion of a company into ever increasing markets with illegal behaviour. All businesses will try to expand to whatever capacity they can sustain. But that doesn't mean it's inevidible they'll engage in illegal behaviour like is alleged here.

I disagree. As your organization grows larger, even if there is morality at the top, it can't peter down all the way to the bottom. Some of the individuals lower down the tree will do things to help them move upwards.

I do expect companies to behave within the bounds of the law. They often don't of course, but my point is that illegal behaviour isn't a given for a company.

Again, I disagree. I think that as any bureaucracy grows towards the maximum size capable of sustaining growth, the frequency of illegal behavior approaches infinity :P

Re:bureaucracy != corporate espionage (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17753912)

You're confusing expansion of a company into ever increasing markets with illegal behaviour. All businesses will try to expand to whatever capacity they can sustain. But that doesn't mean it's inevidible they'll engage in illegal behaviour like is alleged here.
Nice straw man. Nobody claimed it was inevitable. But the fact is that is highly likely. It is much more likely than not, in fact.

Re:bureaucracy != corporate espionage (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17754208)


Nice straw man. Nobody claimed it was inevitable.

No one.. except the original poster.

Re:All bureaucracies tend this way... (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 7 years ago | (#17753930)

Right. Anyone who's had training or coursework in group dynamics (like me), can tell you that this is a form of groupthink. It's actually not unlike the Nazis in Germany or similar acts conducted at Andersonville during the American Civil War. And of course, when called on it, everyone was just following orders. But, the basic tendancy in the HP spying situation and these other two examples are essentially the same type of groupthink.

Psychologists actually deem this to be a disorder and have other names for it like 'collective behavior disorder'.

I remember when... (4, Interesting)

hackstraw (262471) | more than 7 years ago | (#17753218)


HP actually _made_ excellent printers.

Now, HP spys on its customers and competeters printer habits.

Their stock value should reflect this better.

Re:I remember when... (1)

petabyte (238821) | more than 7 years ago | (#17753336)

And Dell no less. I have a Dell inkjet printer (lexmark with another name on it) still unopened in its box from when it came as part of a bundle deal with my laptop this Christmas. I've asked friends and family and no one wants to bother with it.

I ended up buying a Samsung laser of all things with Christmas bestbuy giftcards as I wanted a laser, it works with linux and was only $80. The HP sitting next to it wasn't as sturdy.

Re:I remember when... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17753380)

I remember too, wait it is today. HP is still the standard for printing in the enterprise. Not to mention excellent driver support on all OS platforms.

Re:I remember when... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17754630)

HP actually _made_ excellent printers.

You're telling me. I only got rid of an old Laserjet III a few months ago. It was over fifteen years old!

Agreed. (3, Insightful)

zoomshorts (137587) | more than 7 years ago | (#17755448)

The older HP lasetjets ROCK. A LaserJet III was, and still is, the
defacto brute force printer of the world. Sure they weigh a ton.
You can FEEL the quality.

That is why many companies still pay to fix them. They are built
rock solid. The new crap, is well, crap. Smaller toner cartridges,
worse performance etc.

Sadly, HP seems to be going the way of the dinosaurs. They make
cheaply built crap now, at premium prices. Thanks Carly. Yes, I
lay blame where it belongs.

Re:I remember when... (1)

PalmKiller (174161) | more than 7 years ago | (#17756298)

HP's workgroup class printers (4xxx series) are pretty darn good. We have 3 4000(t)n I got in 1998, a 4050n I got in 1999 and a 4300n bought in that are rock solid. Just put new maintenance parts like pickup rollers every 100K pages or so, fusers every 200K pages and they keep going ... very few jams, etc. Of course these are in the $2000 range (which is cheaper than the original $2500 price tag of the laserjet III). We replaced laserjet III and laserjet 4 printers with those...the III started jamming and parts got expensive, the 4s just did not hold up to expectations. I also like the oki color C7550N printer we have for color printing...it was much more cost effective than other companies color models...and is solid as a rock too...definitely beats our old solid ink textronic (now xerox) phaser 840 printer.

Re:I remember when... (1)

lukas84 (912874) | more than 7 years ago | (#17758344)

We've replaced an IBM InfoPrint 1220 (a Lexmark rebadged) with a Color LaserJet 4700dtn about a year ago.

The printer has been solid, the drivers are WAY better than the IBM/Lexmark stuff. We're an IBM BP, so i mostly have to deal with IBM/Lexmark printers, and i prefer HP printers. Everything from the WebUI, to the drivers is better, offers more options, causes less problems, and the service is better too.

Of course, all desk printers i've ever encountered suck. That's why you buy workgroup printers.

Re:I remember when... (1)

SeaFox (739806) | more than 7 years ago | (#17761656)

Not only that, they were spying on Dell.

Dell doesn't make printers! They simply rebrand Lexmark printers, and Lexmark printers suck. Why would HP want to emulate such crappy hardware?

This is depressing. (2, Interesting)

jcr (53032) | more than 7 years ago | (#17753262)

The HP we all remember from the 1970's is long gone. I'd say that hiring Carly wan't the cause, it was a symptom of the company losing its way.

-jcr

Re:This is depressing. (2, Interesting)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 7 years ago | (#17754012)

I'd say that hiring Carly wan't the cause, it was a symptom of the company losing its way.

On the other hand, hiring Carly was exactly opposed to what needed to be done.

It may not have caused HP to slide into the toilet, but I'm pretty sure the hand on the lever was attached to one C. Fiorina.

As someone who saw NCR's implosion by AT&T... (1)

sethstorm (512897) | more than 7 years ago | (#17763726)


On the other hand, hiring Carly was exactly opposed to what needed to be done.
It may not have caused HP to slide into the toilet, but I'm pretty sure the hand on the lever was attached to one C. Fiorina.

The lever handler only changed when it got to Hurd. Now if they'd merge with NCR and drop the HP name, there might be some way to save both in one shot. Heck, it'd even have a chance at revitalizing the Indecision State [wikipedia.org] of the Midwest.

Whoops. Here's the corrected URL. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17763870)

It should be this [wikipedia.org] .

Re:This is depressing. (2, Interesting)

Manchot (847225) | more than 7 years ago | (#17754194)

I'd say that HP sealed their fate when they spun off Agilent [wikipedia.org] in 1999. Agilent does what HP was originally founded to do: to actually perform R&D, and to make test equipment that is widely used in R&D. It's no coincidence that a large majority of the insanely expensive equipment used in my electrical engineering department is Agilent- or HP-made. They went from being a company that actually does interesting things to being a company that manufactures commodities. Is essence, they moved from being a technically-oriented company to being a business-oriented corporation. In the former, there is actually a spirit of scientific camaraderie amongst the employees, but in the latter, it's a solely profit-driven work environment.

Re:This is depressing. (2, Insightful)

jcr (53032) | more than 7 years ago | (#17754544)

I hope that when HP craters, Agilent buys the name back from the receivers.

-jcr

Re:This is depressing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17754766)

Well gee, when you attempt to offshore all of your R&D and Engineering to India and China what do you get? You get HP and the decline of a once visionary American company.

At least today I take great joy in watching companies struggle with these offshore yahoos, have their intellectual property stolen, and watch as competitors pop up that they trained to work for them in the first place.

More spying (1)

saskboy (600063) | more than 7 years ago | (#17753286)

I can't wait until the stories of Sony spying on Nintendo or Microsoft come out. You KNOW it has to be going on.

Re:More spying (1)

SgtChaireBourne (457691) | more than 7 years ago | (#17753654)

It's probably even better than that. Wasn't there a programme for M$ to help small businesses 'register' new business ideas?

Re:More spying (1)

Vision2098 (1055740) | more than 7 years ago | (#17756078)

Yep, it's called MSN Messenger.

In spite of this. (1)

Nathgar (995959) | more than 7 years ago | (#17753314)

In spite of more attacks, true or not, in the media on HP's image as an honest company, my prediction is their stock price will continue to go up.

Re:In spite of this. (1)

MyLongNickName (822545) | more than 7 years ago | (#17754316)

In spite of more attacks, true or not, in the media on HP's image as an honest company, my prediction is their stock price will continue to go up.

My head almost exploded trying to parse this "sentence". Can anyone diagram this sentence and post it on the internet? sheesh.

More spying? (3, Funny)

ruiner13 (527499) | more than 7 years ago | (#17753372)

Seriously, they spy on their own employees, they spy on other companies, how do I know they aren't spying on me via our office HPs? Who do they think they are, the Bush administration [yahoo.com] ?

Re:More spying? (1)

msoftsucks (604691) | more than 7 years ago | (#17753618)

Actually they do. Most of their consumer level printers have drivers that monitor every move you make and phone home. They even send the computer date down to the printer in order to enforce their ink extortion schemes.

Re:More spying? (1)

LehiNephi (695428) | more than 7 years ago | (#17756410)

Do you have a reference for that? I'd be interested in hearing more facts about that...

Re:More spying? (1)

KKlaus (1012919) | more than 7 years ago | (#17755312)

To some extent they actually do... many modern printers print unique paterns on every paper they print that are invisible to the human eye (very nearly at least) but are serials and timestamps to connect the printer and anything it prints, and then obviously to stores and credit card records etc. Its an anti-counterfeit measure to give police a lead when they find (poorly) counterfeited money. I don't know what quantity of HP printers do this (because its not public information), but you can assume some. So just to add some real world weight to your joke :D.

Corporate espionage (1)

PCM2 (4486) | more than 7 years ago | (#17757936)

Companies spying on their own employees seems pretty draconian. But the kind of corporate espionage we're talking about here is commonplace. The book Spooked, [amazon.com] by Adam L. Penenberg and Marc Barry, has some good stories about this stuff. You'd be surprised how much espionage went on in the frozen pizza market -- that oven-rising crust was a bigger deal than you realize.

I actually worked for a small graphic design company in San Francisco that tried it. It's pretty common in these kinds of firms for some of the designers to split off and start their own outfits. Those new companies naturally become competitors, and there's often all kinds of bad blood about who may or may not have absconded with whose Rolodex. In one case, my company actually hired a private investigator to pose as a phony potential client of one of these competing companies, with the aim of trying to trick the principals into letting slip that they were using privileged information to win clients. The fact that my company did this was never made widely known. The only reason the rank-and-file employees found out about it was because the private investigator got caught. Word spreads fast in an industry as small as the graphic design biz. And to put it in perspective, we were a company of about 45 employees. The competitor was even smaller.

Crappy printers (1)

Life700MB (930032) | more than 7 years ago | (#17753386)


Wouldn't be an easier method to sell more to try not to overprice the ink for their printers than to spy on others business?

--
Superb hosting [tinyurl.com] 200GB Storage, 2_TB_ bandwidth, php, mysql, ssh, $7.95

Eastern District of Texas (4, Informative)

frinkster (149158) | more than 7 years ago | (#17753424)

Just as an FYI, the US District Court for the Eastern District of Texas has become very popular of late for the "little guy" suing a big corporation. The juries down there seem to hate large companies ;)

A lawsuit in the Eastern District of Texas is almost always associated with patent trolling, since the Eastern District of Texas certainly doesn't have much in the way of large cities, large corporations, or large R&D departments. Why it exists is a pretty decent question.

Forum Shopping (1)

Vellmont (569020) | more than 7 years ago | (#17753808)

I've heard of this before. It's called Forum, or Court shopping [wikipedia.org] . In fact I've read that the recent lawsuit against spamhaus [slashdot.org] was a case of forum shopping.

Re:Eastern District of Texas (1)

antifoidulus (807088) | more than 7 years ago | (#17753956)

¥es, but the question becomes, does the court in Texas have the right to try this case? While the companies involved are all US based companies, the incident happened mostly in Japan. So do you try it in the US or Japan? Both? In front of the WTO? Who has juristiction?

Re:Eastern District of Texas (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17754462)

¥es, but the question becomes, does the court in Texas have the right to try this case? While the companies involved are all US based companies, the incident happened mostly in Japan. So do you try it in the US or Japan? Both? In front of the WTO? Who has juristiction?

If HP can successfully argue that they've never had an office in the District, never sold a product there, never had an advertisement reach there, never served up an HTTP response to a request originating there, etc, then they might get a change of venue. It's very hard for a large corporation to avoid any particular US District court. Smaller companies and individuals may be successful to petition for a venue that is more conveniently located, but a corporation with private jets and lots of money for travel expenses aren't quite as lucky.

Basically, if you don't want to fight a court case anywhere in the country, don't do business nationwide. And don't spy on people.

And yet... (1)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 7 years ago | (#17753482)

I own a Samsung laser printer because it has linux support :-)

Personally I hope both HP and Dell fail

Re:And yet... (2, Interesting)

Technician (215283) | more than 7 years ago | (#17754010)

I own a Samsung laser printer because it has linux support :-)

Tried a newer distro of Linux?

When I finaly retired Windows 98 and loaded Ubuntu on a machine on my LAN, it fould both my older HP printers just fine.

Personally I hope both HP and Dell fail

I am aiming that way quickly. My wife got a Dell printer with her new (not anymore) XP computer. We about fell over laughing when we saw the size of the print carts. We looked up the price of the replacements. They were the same price as the carts for the HP722c but were a quarter the size. We could not pick them up localy but had to pay S & H on top.

We figured to go ahead and install it and use it until it ran out of ink. This is where we got our second laugh.. It cam with drivers for Windows XP and Windows 2K. At the time none of the other computers on the LAN ran either of those OS'es. At the time we had a mix of Win98, Win 95, Linux, and an oddball Win ME laptop. None of them could use the new printer.

To add insult to injury, Dell had a very generous offer.. They would recycle my old printer for free including shipping, just pack it in the printer box and put on the shipping label. Yea right! I was going to ship their printer back for recycling when it ran out of ink, but they probably would pass it on to someone else as a new printer. We donated it to Goodwill instead. It's there if someone really wants it.

HP has very little to worry from Dell unless they put out a decent printer and make supplies easy to pick up at a good price.

I think Cannon will eat both of them for lunch if they are not careful.

Re:And yet... (1)

evilviper (135110) | more than 7 years ago | (#17754596)

I think Cannon will eat both of them for lunch if they are not careful.

Canon seems happy to be a niche player, with no interest in expanding. Maybe that will change, but not anytime soon.

And I've got news for you if you think Canon printer drivers are going to be any better than the experience you've had...

Re:And yet... (1)

Technician (215283) | more than 7 years ago | (#17755364)

And I've got news for you if you think Canon printer drivers are going to be any better than the experience you've had...

Which experiance; Dell or HP?

I was under the impression that Cannon printers were used on Apple computers and such unlike the Dell which are Windows only.

I just jumped over to Cannon's website and picked a random model and went to driver downloads. The i950 has these drivers ready for download.

                    Add-on Module for Printer Driver (Windows Vista/Vista64)
        2006-12
                  i950 v1.62a Printer Driver for Windows XP

                  i950 v1.62a Printer Driver for Windows 2000

                  i950 v7.40 Printer Driver for Windows Me

                  i950 v7.40 Printer Driver for Windows 98

                  i950 v4.14 Printer Driver for Mac OS 8.6 - 9.x

                  i950 Printer Driver Ver. 4.1.9 (Mac OS X)
        2007-01

You must be talking about the HP.. It was only the Dell that was limited to two versions of Windows.
Cannon has supprt for Mac and most older versions of Windows. Only 95 and 3.x do not have support.

If you want to use this Cannon on linux a Google search bring up this;

http://www.turboprint.info/printers.html [turboprint.info]
The supported list includes the i950 picked out from random for testing.

Now try to find a linux print driver for a Dell Printer.

I come up with this.
"I just bought a dell laptop from dell.com and it came with a free printer. the printer is a dell 720 (color inkjet), but i cannot find any driver for it. is there anyways to make it work? i do not need to do any fancy thing, i just want it to print in colors and i would be happy."

http://www.computing.net/linux/wwwboard/forum/2639 4.html [computing.net]

The reply is very helpful.
"Dell printers are junk. Here's why:
1. Dell repackages Lexmark printers and sells them as Dell's
2. Lexmark printers are absolute garbage
3. Dell modifies the print cartridge bays so ONLY Dell cartridges will work
4. You can ONLY buy Dell print cartridges online, and for overpriced sums. Then you have to wait while they're shipped to you for extravagant shipping costs."

Any questions?
I have not heard these complaints for Cannon printers which is why I am considering one of them.

Re:And yet... (1)

neildiamond (610251) | more than 7 years ago | (#17759610)

However, at least for some printers the turboprint drivers are not free for full quality printing. Also, there is some work on reverse engineering the scanner drivers on cannon multifunctions (this is where I give HP some credit as their multifunction printers mostly work on Linux), but it is pretty hit and miss. However, HP printers suck despite working on Linux. Turboprint give you low quality printing, though you can network from a Windows machine to Linux and print with full quality with the free turboprint driver. THat said, Cannon still has the best stuff these days. Epson beats them slightly on print quality, but their customer service sucks serious ass.

Re:And yet... (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | more than 7 years ago | (#17764660)

We donated it to Goodwill instead. It's there if someone really wants it.

Oh, like the average Goodwill shopper can afford the print carts - next time just cut out the middle man and take it straight to the recycler. :)

Re:And yet... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17754490)

I too own a samsung laser printer because it has linux support AND happens to be onsale for $100

It turns out to be a pretty crappy printer, loud, causing entire house's lights to flutter whenever it is running. Too bad I threw out a good HP 6L which has served me for more than 8 years, which during the years I had to replace the rollers and a drive motor. Genuine HP parts and official service instructions are easy to get from HP support website. Yes, repairing the 6L costs me $100+, but I am able to use the product for more years than I'd care for.

HP dosen't need to worry.... (1)

justkarl (775856) | more than 7 years ago | (#17753508)

I heard from a dell rep that all they use in their offices are HP's.

Re:HP dosen't need to worry.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17757950)

The printers are Lexmarks and Dells actually.

Carly Fiorina... (1)

ruffnsc (895839) | more than 7 years ago | (#17753550)

I wonder how she feels about this issue or knew of it? Do you think she would have started this sort of action or was against it idea? I would guess that it was the incoming CEO's push to try and meet the expectations of the board. Until this settles out I guess we will never know how deep the rabbit hole really is.

No biggy (2, Insightful)

popo (107611) | more than 7 years ago | (#17753554)


Why are we pretending this is a big deal? The settlement (in millions) will still be less than the severance package of
a top executive. Neither company's reputation is in the least bit tarnished in the public eye, and the whole thing
will blow over (in fact, it already has). This isn't politics, its corporate America. Was it pathetic, wrong and lame?
Uh, Yeah. You new here?

The Quest for Knowledge (3, Insightful)

BillGatesLoveChild (1046184) | more than 7 years ago | (#17753664)

> An ex-HP exec claims he was instructed by the company's management to spy on Dell's printer business plans.

Actually they were wondering if anyone at Dell had managed to get a printer working with Windows.

Re:The Quest for Knowledge (0, Redundant)

Technician (215283) | more than 7 years ago | (#17754122)

Actually they were wondering if anyone at Dell had managed to get a printer working with Windows.

Funny thing you mentioned that. When my wife got a Dell printer with her Dell XP computer a few years ago, we found it came with drivers for XP and 2K only. On my home LAN the wife's XP was the only PC that could use the printer unlike the HP printers already on the LAN. We donated the printer to Goodwill when it ran out of ink and reclaimed the desk space.

Re:The Quest for Knowledge (0, Offtopic)

contrapunctus (907549) | more than 7 years ago | (#17758232)

You mention the same story twice in the same page here about "donating" your printer.
Does it make you a good person to donate crap, or would you have done them (people who got the crappy printer) a favor by disposing of it and ridding humanity of it?

Re:The Quest for Knowledge (1)

mgblst (80109) | more than 7 years ago | (#17765988)

Cool. Why don't you tell us the story about how you donated your printer to Goodwill as well, I haven't heard that one for a while.

Re:The Quest for Knowledge (1)

valeurnutritive (1048314) | more than 7 years ago | (#17755142)

Mod parent funny but insightful? Pretty sure all the people modding that have never tried installing a printer on Windows. If something that really sucked was installing Modems in Windows 98 days. Windows may suck but I am yet to see a printer not working with Windows specially with the versions that came after Windows ME.

Re:The Quest for Knowledge (1)

BillGatesLoveChild (1046184) | more than 7 years ago | (#17762832)

Probably the mod like me spends too much time starting at the "spoolsv.exe has terminated with an error" popup :-(

the news is that they got caught or outed (2, Insightful)

SocietyoftheFist (316444) | more than 7 years ago | (#17753684)

I worked at a telecomm equipment manufacturer and was looking for a document on a network share one day when I noticed some oddly named directories. The directories were available for me to view so I figured that if I had the correct permissions, I can go inside those directories. Inside I found technical documentation, trade secrets, etc... for the competitors products that wasn't supposed to leave the competitors campus. I pointed out to my direct manager that permissions probably should be changed on that directory.

It's not spying! (1)

gillbates (106458) | more than 7 years ago | (#17753784)

It's unauthorized interloping. Kind of like pretexting isn't lying.

And I'm sure Kamb didn't steal company secrets, he merely relocated them to a more secure area.

FTA:

While still employed by HP, these former high-level employees and their co-conspirators covertly organised and began operating a competing business venture using HP's resources, contacts and trade secrets," HP claimed in court documents.

Inveterate Prevaricator:
Competing busines venture? Compete is such a strong word... I prefer to think of it as a competition stimulation exercise
/Inveterate Prevaricator

It was later revealed... (0, Offtopic)

Rurouni_Jaden (846065) | more than 7 years ago | (#17753826)

... that the HP executives were attempting to help the Bush Administration by screwing up even more than they do, thus making them look better in comparison.

Does it matetr? dell printers are other companies (1)

majortom1981 (949402) | more than 7 years ago | (#17753836)

Does this matter? dell printers are just other companies printers rebranded. Some of the expensive color laser printers are just rebranded zerox.

Re:Does it matetr? dell printers are other compani (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 7 years ago | (#17754420)

*gasp* *shock* You mean Dell doesn't actually make their own printers?

Next thing you're going to tell me is that Dell doesn't actually make it's own processors or hard drives!

What?

Spying...okay or not okay? (1)

bartwol (117819) | more than 7 years ago | (#17754080)

It all depends on what you mean by "spying." If you mean to aggressively pursue information using legal methods, then spying can be a reasonable and useful tool for a company to understand its marketplace. But it'ss not okay if illegal methods (e.g. pretexting) are used to obtain information. It's not clear to me from the article that there is even an allegation of HP having illegally spied on Dell.

Still, if a responsible business such as HP chooses to pay a third party for information, I see little excuse for it failing to carefully examine the means by which the information was obtained. From a very practical standpoint, HP should want such an examination in order to determine the quality/meaning/usefulness of the information. Further, because information gathering tactics can so easily take advantage of deceit (and too often do), it is incumbent upon a responsible company to explicitly advise against wrongful practices, and if you're HP's size, that advice should be documented.

But...ummmmm...HP doesn't seem to have such a defense.

Re:Spying...okay or not okay? (1)

anss123 (985305) | more than 7 years ago | (#17754240)

Legal spying is called 'observing'.

Globalization (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17754704)

Since most hardware is manufactured in China, industrial espionage should be treated with Chinese standards.
It would be interesting to get some former HP employees executed and their organs supplied ("voluntarily", of course, as in case of all the executed Chinese criminals) to the growing Chinese organ transplant business, aimed mostly for international clients.

 

Should have used genuine spies. (5, Funny)

140Mandak262Jamuna (970587) | more than 7 years ago | (#17754734)

HP should have learnt by now. It should have used the Genuine OEM brand spies. You might find cheaper replacement spies on the internet, but they leak eventually, and ruin it all.

Oh the tangled web we weave (0)

dean.collins (862044) | more than 7 years ago | (#17754986)

lol, I dont know who is more at fault;

- the business exec for starting up a competing company and getting kickbacks while negotiating to sell a company he had an interest in to his own bosses.
- the wife, who obviously knew what was going on but acquiesced for 3 years until she found out her husband was cheating on her and decided to take him to the cleaners.
or
- the company, sweet old HP who used pretexting to access an employees private phone records but when this failed, stole the social security information from his employment records.

either way makes for very very interesting reading www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/25/hp_tv_kamb see that TV you are watching in the corner, who knows how it's development came about, who knew business was such fun.

Cheers,
Dean
http://deancollinsblog.blogspot.com/2007/01/oh-tan gled-web-we-weave.html [blogspot.com]

relabeling (2, Funny)

glsunder (241984) | more than 7 years ago | (#17755062)

So is HP going to start relabeling cheapo lexmark printers now?

I think its funny.... (1)

GregPK (991973) | more than 7 years ago | (#17755566)

Because HP has been buying the printers of the competition for years and checking them in thier labs... Disecting printers testing the dots and shades of the prints being done... I remember once talking to a guy in HP research who commented that HP had in its hands printers which did photos at an astronomical rate of speed... HP just wanted to release slow improvements to quality prints than sudden.. To keep the consumers coming back for the next best thing... Hard Drive makers have done the same thing.. They've had Terbayte Hard drives in thier labs since 1990.. The only thing that has changed is the Physical size form factor over the years...

Actually (2, Informative)

Kankraka (936176) | more than 7 years ago | (#17755806)

I can see a reason HP would be quite interested in what Dell is doing with their 'brand' of printers. Every Dell printer I've ever seen is a Lexmark that's been re-branded with the Dell logo and a different ink cartridge and print head. Now obviously that printer is going to be using the same ink as the Lexmark counterpart, just with the cartridge modified a little bit to fit in the modified print head to stop you from just buying Lexmark ink. As far as I know, you can buy Lexmark ink and just switch the plastic tops on the Lexmark branded ink with the Dell top. I'm not sure if this works with ALL their ink, but a good majority of the older cartridges for sure. Now the interesting part. Lexmark doesn't manufacture their own ink, which explains why it's so expensive, but where do they get the ink from? HP. So HP makes the ink for Lexmark, Lexmark sells rebranded ink to Dell, and the sucker buying a Dell printer pays out the ass for his ink. HP is on the first rung on this ladder, the profit filtering down from Dell is probably pretty decent and HP probably doesn't really want to lose the share in that; so if Dell is changing things around in their printer market, HP is gonna want to be the first to know about it. HP will lose a chunk of profit if Dell goes with another manufacturer, or decides to start making their own line of printers from 'scratch', so one would think HP would need to know before hand what's going on, to prevent profit loss.

Re:Actually (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17761342)

This is BS. Lexmark does not buy its ink from HP. In fact, Lexmark is the only player who is using all pigment inks. HP, Canon, and the rest are using dye inks.

HP got confused by the... (1)

kpainter (901021) | more than 7 years ago | (#17756658)

..."Intel Inside" stickers on Dell computers.

fFAILZORS.. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17758386)

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mod do3n (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17760028)

for trolls' exploit3d that. A clearly 3ecome go of the minutiae And she ran

YOU FAilL IT... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17760334)

somethi8g cool GAY NIGGERS FROM Claim that BSD is a tossers, went out Slashdot 'BSD is track of where fly They looked

Yuo Fail It (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17760956)

on Baby...doN't [goat.cx]

Spying?? (1)

Khyber (864651) | more than 7 years ago | (#17762938)

Hell, it's not that hard for HP to spy on Dell! Dell's repair center is right behind HP's, we can turn around from our benches and hear shit!
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