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British Police Identify Killer in Radiation Case

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the hercule-poirot-to-the-white-phone-please dept.

The Courts 235

reporter writes "According to a front-page story by The Guardian, British authorities have identified Andrei Lugovoi to be the murderer who used radioactive pollonium-210 to kill Andrei Litvinenko. The British government will ask Moscow to extradite Lugovoi. The Guardian states: 'Associates of the dead man have repeatedly accused President Vladimir Putin's government of being behind his murder, a claim the Kremlin rejects. While it is known that detectives believe they have uncovered evidence pointing to Mr Lugovoi's involvement, it is not clear whether they have established a motive for the murder'"

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We should be defending the Plutonium killer (4, Funny)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778124)

because not only is he interested in high tech assassination, he's also in favor of Open Sores.

Re:We should be defending the Plutonium killer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17778396)

IMHO, it was actually the Canadians that carried this out.

When will the world put a stop this! I am calling for a War on Canadians! Not the peace minded Canadians, but those Canadian extremists. You know the type, Hockey Fans!

And can the USA have British Columbia after the War on Canadians is over? You can give the French part Luxemburg or Iceland or Libya or...

Re:We should be defending the Plutonium killer (-1, Offtopic)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778746)

Actually, most of us in WA, OR, and CA would rather join with BC if we could, then we wouldn't have to drag around the tax-avoiding low-education parts of the US with our 40 percent of the US economy and 20 percent of the US population.

Re:We should be defending the Plutonium killer (1, Informative)

ccarson (562931) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778856)

You think the rest of the United States is a drain on your state(s)? Try succession into Canada and you'll see a socialist parasitic, blood sucking effect on resources like you could never imagine.

Re:We should be defending the Plutonium killer (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17779242)

You no fool me. You just want some of that kind bud they're growing up there. Truth be told, if the South had been allowed to secede(should've been kicked out), the North would have been much more advanced and progressive than they are now having to drag those slugs along. And the south would have degenerated into just another third world dictatorship.

Re:We should be defending the Plutonium killer (1)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778882)

And can the USA have British Columbia after the War on Canadians is over?

      You guys short of rainfall or what?

YRO? (2, Insightful)

hereschenes (813329) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778126)

What the hey does this have to do with Your Rights Online?

Re:YRO? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17778636)

What the hey does this have to do with Your Rights Online?

Not much, even if you take the extended view of it also applying to "Your Rights Offline" (except perhaps, your right to not be assassinated) -- but IIRC "Politics" would have put a US flag on the article. Given that it's all about Russia and the UK, would that have really been a better choice?

Interesting, but not 'YRO' (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17778170)

This topic is interesting, but why is it listed under 'Your Rights Online', when 'Online' has nothing to do with this.

Tracked by his radioactive trail (4, Interesting)

spun (1352) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778204)

Haha! Busted. He left a radioactive trail all over London, even in an airplane he travelled on. He's the only person who can be tied to all the locations they've found traces of radioactive polonium. Of course, he's claiming someone set him up by following him around and dropping the stuff wherever he went. We'll see if the Russians will hand him over. If they don't, it's gonna look mighty suspicious. If they do, he's gonna say Putin put him up to it, whether he did or not.

The UK may have to hand over a scummy billionaire who profited immensely off of the rush to privatize Russia, which would be cool: two scumbags busted for the price of one.

Re:Tracked by his radioactive trail (1)

nomadic (141991) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778370)

The problem is Russia is acting all offended, and trying to make it seem like they're the aggrieved party here. Being for most part authoritarian almost to the point of dictatorship, they seem unable to comprehend that the UK government might be constrained by UK courts from extraditing the guy they want.

Re:Tracked by his radioactive trail (2, Interesting)

JohnnyGTO (102952) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778380)

He'll be dead before he hits British shores.

Re:Tracked by his radioactive trail (5, Interesting)

residue (462525) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778384)

Berezovsky is actually not a scumbag -- he never did anything outrageously illegal, just the usual machinations necessary in a lawless nation like Russia to make any money. Contrast this with the Stalin-esque purgings of dissenting voices that are rampant in Russia these days.

At the same time, he has stood for the liberalization of the media and government structures, for which he was ordered exterminated by Litvinenko. In a tyrannical atmosphere that is Russia right now, that deserves a lot of credit.

Re:Tracked by his radioactive trail (4, Informative)

Cyberax (705495) | more than 7 years ago | (#17779024)

What??

He openly provided funds to Chechen terrorists. He openly declared his plans to violently overthrow Russian government. If both of these are legal, then I'm Santa Claus.

Re:Tracked by his radioactive trail (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17779338)

Can I have a pony?

is 'outrageously illegal' like 'little pregnant'? (1)

ezh (707373) | more than 7 years ago | (#17779068)

Some people actually think Berezovsky is behind the whole story with Litvinenko. His has a good motive - to discredite Putin's government at all costs.

Re:Tracked by his radioactive trail (5, Funny)

Walt Dismal (534799) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778540)

Could we trade Darl McBride to the Russians in exchange for... well ...let's give him to them for free.

Re:Tracked by his radioactive trail (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17778670)

Also, we could send them the Novell traitors as a bonus.

Re:Tracked by his radioactive trail (2, Funny)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778858)

Also, we could send them the Novell traitors as a bonus.

      In fact, perhaps Microsoft could be persuaded to supply their government with "n" copies of Vista, in exchange for dropping the EEC fine. That way Russia will have the most hackab^H^H^H^H^H secure government computers in the world...

Re:Tracked by his radioactive trail (2, Funny)

jd (1658) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778810)

I was thinking we should ask the US to parachute Darl McBride into the borderlands between Afghanistan and Pakistan. The worst that can happen is that he'll use up all of the Taliban's money suing half the middle east for infringing on spice-based intellectual property.

Re:Tracked by his radioactive trail (2, Informative)

EnglishTim (9662) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778706)


The UK may have to hand over a scummy billionaire who profited immensely off of the rush to privatize Russia, which would be cool: two scumbags busted for the price of one.


Actually, the courts have already ruled that Boris Berezovsky cannot be returned to Russia, so even if there was the political will to return him, it seems unlikely that they could do anything about it.

Mod Parent Up (4, Interesting)

Valdrax (32670) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778822)

Already, the Russians are claiming that it's against their Constitution to allow extraditions. [bbc.co.uk] (Read the last paragraph in the article.)

constitution does not allow means 'more expensive' (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17779030)

apparently he wanted to say that since this extradition is unconstitutional, the price tag is higher

Re:Mod Parent Up (-1, Offtopic)

alshithead (981606) | more than 7 years ago | (#17779192)

"I'll subscribe to Slashdot when I see a month without a dupe, a typo, or an article the editors didn't read."

Duuuude(ette), I love you're sig.

If'n we's evar get to dat point, hell will haved freezed ovar solid like. That's would be da teh bomb tho. Its a goal were noone can loose. :) I think it takes more effort to write like a moron than to write as a I normally do! Really, your points about dupes and articles not read by editors hit a sore point with me. Typos I can forgive...to a certain point, but usage (lose and loose, it's and its, their and their and they're, etc.) cause my blood pressure to rise through the roof. One day I'll be found dead in front of my computer with a Slashdot article titled, "Teh best new Micro$oft OS evar. Buy it now or be a looser".

Billionaire (3, Informative)

Morosoph (693565) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778830)

The UK may have to hand over a scummy billionaire who profited immensely off of the rush to privatize Russia, which would be cool: two scumbags busted for the price of one.
This billionaire might indeed be scummy, but he wouldn't receive a fair trial, according to English Courts, so extradition is off. As the article says, the Russians will, most likely, not accept this as an excuse.

In fact, this is the whole problem: to Russia, the concept of an independent judiciary is not credible.

Implications for British Power (5, Interesting)

TigerTim (968445) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778254)

I think this is a real test case of whether the notion of the UK as a nation holds any actual power in the World. The Russian constitution, as I understand it, obliges the Russian government NOT to render Russian citizens for extradition, despite the fact that in Britain the defendent will assuredly recieve a fair trial (either in the UK or by analogy to the Lockerbie case, in a third country).

If the Russian government DID sponsor an assassination within British territory, it is an affront to our sovereignty and should be exposed. If on the other hand it was NOT, then it is equally desirable that the Russian government be cleared of that.

If the UK does not take a strong, principled stand on this issue, then I feel that our identity of "British" is very probably meaningless.

Nations don't hold powers. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17778736)

Certain wealthy individuals wield the power in this world. Where they live, and whatever citizenship they claim, is completely irrelevent.

If the wealthy elite from every country moved to Sealand, that platform would instantly become the most powerful nation on earth, and we'd still be their slaves.

The only real power is money. Guns can be bought, as can people. When you control entire economies from the cozy office in your mansion, nationality becomes meaningless.

We need a mod here, stat! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17779046)

(Score:-1, Seen Way Too Much X-Files)

Re:Nations don't hold powers. (1)

sentientbeing (688713) | more than 7 years ago | (#17779316)

We'd just disconnect their Belkin wireless connection from the beach at Felixstowe. Then theyd be fucked.

No more world domination for YOU.

it has nothing to do with British power... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17778938)

A defected spy is a defected spy and should not expect anything else.

And don't make yourself a laughting matter by mentioning 'assured fair trial' in the country that runs errands for another country, which does not give a f$%k about any other country in the world.

Re:it has nothing to do with British power... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17779218)

This particular defected spy was a British citizen. If we can't secure justice for him, we aren't much of a world power.

Re:Implications for British Power (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17779138)

"I think this is a real test case of whether the notion of the UK as a nation holds any actual power in the World"

I wouldn't think that, I'm not sure China or the US could get anyone out of Russia if Russia didn't want them to leave and no one doubts that they are powerful. I do kinda hope that we don't get this guy though, then at least it will make plain the dangers we can face by being dependent upon Russia for anything, especially for our gas suplies - can you imagine how hard it would be if they could respond to any request with "off goes your gas"...

Re:Implications for British Power (2, Informative)

alshithead (981606) | more than 7 years ago | (#17779254)

I'm not real sure how this applies but Russia did allow a diplomat with diplomatic immunity to be tried in Washington DC after he killed someone while drunk driving. He was tried, convicted, and spent time in a US prison. Eventually, he was allowed to return to Russia before his sentence ended and then served time there. If I remember correctly, he didn't end up serving the entire sentence handed down by the US court but, US citizens usually don't either. If they can suspend his diplomatic immunity can they suspend this guy's constitutional rights? It seems the Russians, in general, do whatever the hell they want to their citizens regardless of what their rights "should" be.

Re:Implications for British Power (2, Insightful)

malsdavis (542216) | more than 7 years ago | (#17779474)

There is quite a large disparity between that case and this one however in that the case you mentioned was a local offence that was not politicaly sensitive and not in the legal area for which diplomatic immunity is for. This case however is politicaly sensitive and may or may not involve the Russian government, unlike the other case, there are many overriding reasons why the Russain governemnt would not wish to hand over the suspect.

Re:Implications for British Power (2, Informative)

JourneyExpertApe (906162) | more than 7 years ago | (#17779302)

Have you been at the Gaffer's homebrew again? I think the status of the UK as a nation state is pretty much universally recognized (for a few centuries now). And besides, extradition is governed by international law; if a state has no extradition treaty with another country, they're perfectly within their rights to refuse an extradition request. What this case gets at is the status of Russia as a fair, open, democratic state.

Re:Implications for British Power (3, Funny)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 7 years ago | (#17779376)

To the people with the power on display here, the terms "British" and "Russian", you name it, don't exist. They don't see it that way. They have a target, location, and a date and time and that's the only thing that matters. They are not distracted by such ubsurdities as "sovereignty" and "identity". And we shouldn't be either when going after them. Bah, What am I talking about? The CIA and other allied intelligence agencies already operate that way. As a matter of fact, isn't this a case of the pot calling...? You know...like are there no British agents operating outside their borders in a clandestine manner? Taking part in "targeted" assasinations?

Not really. There are still the dental jokes. (1)

AmazingRuss (555076) | more than 7 years ago | (#17779448)

Besides, I'd be more concerned about some Russian nut dribbling radioactive dust all over the countryside. What a wierd murder weapon. I don't think we'll ever find out what this was all about.

sh\1t (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17778256)

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ya right (5, Insightful)

mastershake_phd (1050150) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778274)

10:1 this guy dies mysteriously or disappears.

Re:ya right (2, Funny)

91degrees (207121) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778366)

The British don't do that sort of thing. Well, they probably do, but officially they don't, so they have to make sure they're incredibly subtle. He may well be killed through some completely unrelated but completely plausible reason, in a manner that that only the craziest conspiracy theorist would ever link to MI5.

Re:ya right (3, Informative)

mastershake_phd (1050150) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778422)

Actually I was trying to suggest the Russians would kill him.

Re:ya right (1)

smallfeet (609452) | more than 7 years ago | (#17779416)

Seconded.

Re:ya right (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17778432)

That isn't what he meant. Why would the British want to bump him off? They want to try him.

Re:ya right (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17778398)

fell under a tractor

Re:ya right (1)

Zontar_Thing_From_Ve (949321) | more than 7 years ago | (#17779554)

10:1 this guy dies mysteriously or disappears.

Very perceptive, but I'd say the odds are too high. I'd put it at 3:1 right now. If it looks like Russia is going to have to hand him over, it'll get closer to even money.

Police were baffled... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17778290)

...until they found parking lot stub assigned to an "Andrei L." and the case was cracked wide open.

He ASKED for this... (5, Insightful)

Karganeth (1017580) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778378)

There was absolutely no need for the James Bond style assasination. Why not just shoot the bugger using a silencer? Advantages of using a gun:

1. Weapon doesn't decay.
2. Don't need to visit a nuclear reactor (which will have very restricted access on) to get one.
3. Doesn't leave a HUGE trail of everywhere you have been with it.
4. Less chance of target surving long enough to give full description of you.

This assasination was far too elaborate...

Re:He ASKED for this... (1)

dave420 (699308) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778470)

You can buy polonium 210 on the internet, btw.

Uh, postage costs for radioactive items? (1)

Karganeth (1017580) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778676)

Buy polonium 210 on the internet? I believe that, but I don't believe that they'll sell it to you in lethal quantities. I'll assume that you're referring to the united nuclear website (http://www.unitednuclear.com/isotopes.htm [unitednuclear.com] ). Just think - if you could buy as much polonium 210 as what was used against Litvinenko, do you really think that any postage service would want to deliver a radioactive package?

Re:Uh, postage costs for radioactive items? (4, Informative)

tbo (35008) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778908)

Disclaimer: IAAP (I Am A Physicist)

Just think - if you could buy as much polonium 210 as what was used against Litvinenko, do you really think that any postage service would want to deliver a radioactive package?

Actually, Polonium 210 is an alpha emitter, which means it's quite safe unless you ingest or inhale it (at which point even small amounts become deadly). Just putting it in a paper bag would shield you from much of the radiation. As long as it was securely packaged, I don't think it would be unsafe to mail.

Re:He ASKED for this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17778708)

Probably not refined enough to kill someone, though..

Re:He ASKED for this... (2, Interesting)

mastershake_phd (1050150) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778504)

There was absolutely no need for the James Bond style assasination. Why not just shoot the bugger using a silencer? Advantages of using a gun: 1. Weapon doesn't decay. 2. Don't need to visit a nuclear reactor (which will have very restricted access on) to get one. 3. Doesn't leave a HUGE trail of everywhere you have been with it. 4. Less chance of target surving long enough to give full description of you. This assasination was far too elaborate...

I think whoever did this is going for a kind of terrorism. They want to scare the hell out of their enemies. Like the guy who ran for president in Ukraine and was disfigured by a mysterious poison. Scary stuff.

Re:He ASKED for this... (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 7 years ago | (#17779048)

was disfigured by a mysterious poison.

Are they sure it wasn't Vodka?

</crass>

Re:He ASKED for this... (1)

Jacer (574383) | more than 7 years ago | (#17779174)

Darth Sidious ran for president in the Ukraine?

the medium is the message (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17778628)

A traditional staged mugging or hit and run style assassination doesn't send the same kind of message: "we've got radiological weapons and can deploy them in the heart of one of the West's greatest cities".

The method of this assassination was intended to create a specific kind of fear among people who pay attention to these sorts of things. Putin's transformation of Russia is nearly complete.

Actually, it was perfect assissination (3, Insightful)

blantonl (784786) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778686)

Actually, it was a perfect assassination. Did you see how the guy perished? All his hair fell out. He sat in a hospital bed for a tremendous amount of time. He suffered. He bled internally.

Why was it a perfect assassination? Because it involved radiation which inherently causes anyone to shiver, and it caused a slow, painful, agonizing death, which sends about as big of a message as publicly drawing and quartering the guy.

Fear is the only reason afaikt (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17778760)

Shooting someone doesn't make people as scared of you.

The method is closer to 9/11 terrorism than a gansta shooting in the hood in terms of the fear factor. (I'm ignoring scale, ok?)

Re:He ASKED for this... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17778946)

There were many less obvious and easier ways to do it.

It seems apparent that it was the assassin's intension to show that it was an assassination by a well connected person, and to get a lot of media attention. They also wanted him to die slowly and make his accusations.

It seems likely the assassination is associated with Putin, committed by either a supporter or an opponent. A supporter might make others more fearful of dissidence. It would also end his speaking out against the administration, but his assassination probably raised more attention than what he did while he was alive, especially internationally. An opponent would have the obvious advantage of making his enemy look like a murderer.

Re:He ASKED for this... (1)

Aptgetupdate (1051164) | more than 7 years ago | (#17779274)

Yeah, but if you have to get caught, would you rather be John Hinkley or Goldfinger?

If and when I commit an assassination, I won't consider resorting to a lowly shooting. Doomsday device? Floating lump of anti-matter in the Vatican? Nuclear supermonsters? Hell, yeah!

It's about being an inspiration to the young, future, evil geniuses. You've got to give a little back, you know? You just can't put a price on that.

Re:He ASKED for this... (1)

mordors9 (665662) | more than 7 years ago | (#17779344)

But that's the problem with fancy weapons... you just have to use them when the opportunity presents itself.

Re:He ASKED for this... (1)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 7 years ago | (#17779412)

This assasination was far too elaborate...

Heh. Too Hollywood. And a B movie at that. This case must be resolved, so they can finish the script. A true snuff film.

Re:He ASKED for this... (1)

greppling (601175) | more than 7 years ago | (#17779574)

There was absolutely no need for the James Bond style assasination. Why not just shoot the bugger using a silencer? Advantages of using a gun:

1. Weapon doesn't decay.

2. Don't need to visit a nuclear reactor (which will have very restricted access on) to get one.

3. Doesn't leave a HUGE trail of everywhere you have been with it.

4. Less chance of target surving long enough to give full description of you.

2. It is not that difficult (but expensive), in my understanding, to get Polonium.

3. Polonium doesn't leave a trail at all if you pack it properly (as in: put in a bottle, wrap that in a paper bag...), so either the murderer was an idiot or he wanted to leave a trail on purpose.

4. Depends on your purpose. If you just want to kill the person, a gun is more efficient. If you also want to scare a lot of people, the Polonium certainly works better.

Can we fix the headline? (5, Insightful)

Stonent1 (594886) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778404)

Could we change the Slashdot headline to say they have charged someone. Legally a representative of the police or any legal branch of a government, would not say "We've identified the killer". It is up to the courts to decide if he killed someone, not the police. The police can only supply evidence to the prosecutor and a jury will decide if he did it or not.

Re:Can we fix the headline? (1)

Stonent1 (594886) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778462)

Not only that, by posting that it could be considered libel on Slashdot's part to say he is a killer without him being convicted of it.

Re:Can we fix the headline? (1)

jrockway (229604) | more than 7 years ago | (#17779286)

British law doesn't apply in the US. If this guy wants to escape from prison to testify against slashdot in the US, then I guess slashdot would have to change the headline. Otherwise, it's Too Fucking Bad For Him (tm).

Murderer.

Re:Can we fix the headline? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17779410)

You do realise that the USA has libel laws too, don't you?

Re:Can we fix the headline? (2, Insightful)

ozbird (127571) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778632)

The missing word is "alleged".

A better question (3, Interesting)

thule (9041) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778672)

Should it even be a homicide investigation or a smuggling investigation? Why would anyone poison someone with many more times the amount required to kill them with a material that is so expensive and easy to trace? There are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay easier ways to kill someone. Ways that would garner much less attention.

Why poison the person multiple times when one time would be enough? We know it's multiple times because the police believe it to be multiple exposures. How would they know this unless the decay or signatures were different between exposures?

The amount is very puzzling. The amount is a huge amount of the material. It was so much that it left a blemish in the tea cup. Something on orders of 100 watts of heat from the Po-210.

I'm not big on conspiracy theories, but it seems to me there has to be much more to this story. What were these guys really up to?

Re:A better question (4, Insightful)

ptbarnett (159784) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778976)

Why would anyone poison someone with many more times the amount required to kill them with a material that is so expensive and easy to trace? There are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay easier ways to kill someone. Ways that would garner much less attention.

And that's exactly why I believe this method was used.

No individual or even group would have been able to get that much polonium, without at least the tacit approval of a government with a sufficiently advanced nuclear program. The list of potential suppliers is very short.

This was a message, which is very clear to dissenters and critics: you can't hide. We can get to you, or at least those that are close to you, no matter where you are.

Wow. Mod parent insightlful, please. (1)

Bonker (243350) | more than 7 years ago | (#17779132)

Wow. Mod parent insightlful, please.

Re:Can we fix the headline? (0, Flamebait)

Jherek Carnelian (831679) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778772)

Lol! Don't you know that rights, like the presumption of innocence, are only for American citizens?

Re:Can we fix the headline? (1)

mrdaveb (239909) | more than 7 years ago | (#17779522)

Har har. Britain had judicial process and the concept of a fair trial before the USA existed

Re: Headline: Sushi Radiation Killer Charged (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778798)

with positive electrical charge. Soon to be subject to high voltages if sent to Texas, otherwise to be denied favorite occupation of irradiating people who yearn to be free.

Except, they have not yet charged him, they are requesting extradition and he's not in the UK or EU at present.

Sushi eaters everywhere are running scared, of course. Except on the West Coast of the US/Canada, where our rivers are filled with fish that have higher levels of Mercury than 10 years ago, so we're way more concerned about that.

Re:Can we fix the headline? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17778860)

Don't be too judgemental, Slashdot editors are American - they don't understand concepts like "innocent until proven guilty", even if they do pay lip service to them once in a while (and falsely claim to have invented them).

Re:Can we fix the headline? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17779140)

Oh it's even worse that that. The BBC is still not running anything about this other than one reference to "a Guardian report" here,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6301821.st m [bbc.co.uk]

So yeah:

1) it's not YRO.

2) "British Police Identify Killer in Radiation Case" is a stupid headline until that's been confirmed by court.

3) We don't have the investigating police force making any such statement yet.

It's Zonk all over. All we know is the underpants are gone and /. somehow profits from this.

Litvinenko: Blackmailer, Smuggler, Gangster (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17778412)

Antiwar has an interesting article [antiwar.com] about the case:

Berezovsky, who employed Litvinenko while he was alive and is using him in death as the symbol of Putin's malignity, is the key figure in all this: the man slain Forbes journalist Paul Klebnikov called Russia's "godfather." The real Mafia could learn a thing or two from Berezovsky, who, Klebnikov averred, assassinated his business rivals - one with an obscure nerve toxin - while the authorities stood by and let it happen on account of the oligarch's connections with top Kremlin officials. When Putin rose to power, however, and turned against Berezovsky - his former supporter and patron - the rule of the oligarchs was over. Berezovsky, Nevzlin, and the others fled Russia, and haven't stopped plotting to discredit and ultimately overthrow their nemesis ever since.
I guess Berezovsky will be extradited from UK to Russia any day now.

It's just politics and diplomacy (4, Interesting)

91degrees (207121) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778618)

I suspect the Russian government knows full well that the British Government can't hand over Boris Berezovsky. That's why they're likely to make the request. It's not, on the face of it, unreasonable. Just legally impossible. But Britain's "refusal" to hand him over will mean that Russia has a better bargaining position. They can push Britain into offering an alternative of greater value.

Will Berezovsky be extradited? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17778874)

Antiwar has an interesting article [antiwar.com] about the case:

Berezovsky, who employed Litvinenko while he was alive and is using him in death as the symbol of Putin's malignity, is the key figure in all this: the man slain Forbes journalist Paul Klebnikov called Russia's "godfather." The real Mafia could learn a thing or two from Berezovsky, who, Klebnikov averred, assassinated his business rivals - one with an obscure nerve toxin - while the authorities stood by and let it happen on account of the oligarch's connections with top Kremlin officials. When Putin rose to power, however, and turned against Berezovsky - his former supporter and patron - the rule of the oligarchs was over. Berezovsky, Nevzlin, and the others fled Russia, and haven't stopped plotting to discredit and ultimately overthrow their nemesis ever since.
I guess Berezovsky will be extradited from UK to Russia any day now, eh?

Re:It's just politics and diplomacy (3, Interesting)

ParraCida (1018494) | more than 7 years ago | (#17779198)

No way in hell is the UK going to give something to Russia in this particular case. I mean, just imagine the situation if the UK now pulls of some sort of exchange with Russia for this guy: he's going to continue denying that he did it, even if found guilty Russia will deny all allegations and accuse the brittish government for orchestrating these false charges, they get to have Litvinenko dead AND they get something else in return for someone they don't really care about anyway.

Fact of the matter is, Russia trounced on the UK's sovereignty and did it with a lot of noise. The UK essentially got humiliated and they are going to have to apply negative leverage over Russia in order to get that guy in order to save face. Since the UK actually is a lot more powerful economically speaking and have a lot more say in organizations such as the WTO and EU they are in a position to put a lot of hurt on Russia for this, if they would really want too.

Re:It's just politics and diplomacy (1)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 7 years ago | (#17779500)

They can push Britain into offering an alternative of greater value.

Another Johnny English movie?

wtf is pollonium? (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17778658)

i might be missing something, but ive never heard of pollonium.
i know of polonium, so it looks like an apparent typo.

speaking of polonium, you should see something thats passed peer review for decades that will no doubt ruffle some feathers. its sad how few people know of this, thats our 'education' system at work for ya. and yes, im sure someone will link also to the talkorigins page on this, or something of the like -- which is why ill restate now that this has passed peer review, the alternate explanations/theories on sites like talkorigins have not.

polonium-218 radiohalos in granite found around the world
http://www.halos.com/ [halos.com]

long story short, its clear evidence that the igneous foundation granites were not formed over millions of years of cooling, but rather they (the rocks) themselves materialized almost instantly.

Re:wtf is pollonium? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17778776)

Could you post a link to the peer-reviewed journal in which these findings in support of creationism were published? Thanks.

Re:wtf is pollonium? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17779042)

Sure, why not.
 
  I'd like to see the talkorigin flimsy responses enter into something peer review, but they know better.

Gentry, R.V. 1968. "Fossil Alpha-Recoil Analysis of Certain Variant Radioactive Halos." Science 160, 1228. HTML [halos.com]
Gentry, R.V. 1970. "Giant Radioactive Halos: Indicators of Unknown Alpha-Radioactivity?" Science 169, 670. HTML [halos.com]
  PDF [halos.com]
Gentry, R.V. 1971. "Radiohalos: Some Unique Pb Isotope Ratios and Unknown Alpha Radioactivity." Science 173, 727. PDF [halos.com]

Gentry, R.V. 1973. "Radioactive Halos." Annual Review of Nuclear Science 23, 347. PDF [halos.com]
Gentry, R.V. 1974. "Radiohalos in Radiochronological and Cosmological Perspective." Science 184, 62. HTML [halos.com]
PDF [halos.com]
Gentry, R.V. 1975. Response to J.H. Fremlin's Comments on "Spectacle Halos." Nature 258, 269.
Gentry, R.V. 1977. "Mystery of the Radiohalos." Research Communications NETWORK, Breakthrough Report,
February 10, 1977. HTML [halos.com] PDF [halos.com]
Gentry, R.V. 1978a. "Are Any Unusual Radiohalos Evidence for SHE?" International Symposium on Superheavy Elements, Lubbock, Texas. New York: Pergamon Press. PDF [halos.com]
Gentry, R.V. 1978b. "Implications on Unknown Radioactivity of Giant and Dwarf Haloes in Scandinavian Rocks." Nature 274, 457. HTML [halos.com]
  PDF [halos.com]
Gentry, R.V. 1978c. "Reinvestigation of the Activity of Conway Granite." Nature 273, 217. HTML [halos.com]
  PDF [halos.com]
Gentry, R.V. 1979. "Time: Measured Responses." EOS Transactions of the American Geophysical Union60, 474. PDF [halos.com]
  RTF [halos.com]
Gentry, R.V. 1980. "Polonium Halos." EOS Transactions of the American Geophysical Union 61, 514. HTML [halos.com]
  PDF [halos.com]
Gentry, R.V. 1982. Letters. Physics Today 35, No. 10, 13.
Gentry, R.V. 1983a. Letters. Physics Today 36, No. 4, 3.
Gentry, R.V. 1983b. Letters. Physics Today 36, No. 11, 124.
Gentry, R.V. 1984a. "Radioactive Halos in a Radiochronological and Cosmological Perspective." Proceedings of the 63rd Annual Meeting of the Pacific Division, American Association for the Advancement of Science 1, 38. HTML [halos.com]
Gentry, R.V. 1984c. Letters. Physics Today 37, No. 4, 108.
Gentry, R.V. 1984d. Letters. Physics Today 37, No. 12, 92.
Gentry, R.V. 1987a. "Radioactive Halos: Implications for Creation." Proceedings of the First International Conference on Creationism, Vol. II, 89.HTML [halos.com]
Gentry, R.V. 1998. "Fingerprints of Creation." Creation Ex Nihilo Technical Journal 12, 287.HTML [halos.com]
Gentry, R.V. et al. 1973. "Ion Microprobe Confirmation of Pb Isotope Ratios and Search for Isomer Precursors in Polonium Radiohalos." Nature 244, 282. HTML [halos.com]
  PDF [halos.com]
Gentry, R.V. et al. 1974. "'Spectacle' Array of Po-210 Halo Radiocentres in Biotite: A Nuclear Geophysical Enigma." Nature 252, 564. HTML [halos.com]
  PDF [halos.com]
Gentry, R.V. et al. 1976a. "Radiohalos and Coalified Wood: New Evidence Relating to the Time of Uranium Introduction and Coalification." Science 194, 315. HTML [halos.com]
PDF [halos.com]

Polonium halo argument has been debunked before. (1)

Valdrax (32670) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778982)

polonium-218 radiohalos in granite found around the world

I'll bet you don't realize this, but that's been debunked. [talkorigins.org]

Re:Polonium halo argument has been debunked before (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17779182)

you obviously didnt read my original post, as i, myself, made reference to the talkorigins page you linked. and no, its not debunked. its a very in depth area of studies, and its so easy for anyone to put up a page that says 'debunked', because there are so few people that could look at their research and know enough about the field to validate it -- in other words, peer review.
 
robert v gentry has no problem putting his data into peer review publications such as nature and science -- and trust me, if there were someone that could debunk his findings for sure, they themselves would have put it in nature or science because they'd loooove to be the person that debunks gentry in the same exact journals hes posted his work in.
 
but alas, nope. no refuting has been done in anything peer review. only on talkorigins, which is blatantly a anticreationist site with a deceptively named domain.

Re:Polonium halo argument has been debunked before (1)

theLOUDroom (556455) | more than 7 years ago | (#17779290)

only on talkorigins, which is blatantly a anticreationist site with a deceptively named domain.
Wow, like Kool-aid much?

I hate to break it to you but creationism is not a scientific theory. NO respectable scientific publication could be described as anything but "blatantly anticreationist".

Spy vs. Spy (1)

countSudoku() (1047544) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778704)

I love this story, it should make an interesting made-for-tv-movie, one question though; which one is the white spy and which one is the black spy?

8^P

Andrei's reply (3, Funny)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778728)

You arrest me, and I will irradiate you all! Muhahahaha... enjoy your sushi, judge!(disappears in a cloud of green phosphorescent smoke)

pollonium with 2 'L's? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17778802)

The killer would have been harder to trace had he used the more common 1-L variety.

Why is this on Slashdot? (-1, Flamebait)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778826)

Seriously?

Re:Why is this on Slashdot? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17778944)

Murder by a geeky method.

Re:Why is this on Slashdot? (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 7 years ago | (#17779080)

Because at some point you need to put down the penguin and play with dangerous radioactive material.

To get you to read and post (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17779550)

Thus driving up page hits and ad revenue.

It worked, didn't it?

The motive (2, Funny)

kerohazel (913211) | more than 7 years ago | (#17778846)

Apparently Lugovoi had been fed up one too many times with airlines constantly mixing up his luggage, which had been meticulously labeled "Andrei L."

Summary From A Former Soviet Citizen (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17778870)

One of my coworkers was a Soviet citizen up until the collapse of the USSR. When this happened, I asked him what he thought. Did Putin do it?

His reply was an incredulous look and "Of course he did it!" He thought it was idiotic anyone would even need to ask.

Re:Summary From A Former Soviet Citizen (3, Informative)

ezh (707373) | more than 7 years ago | (#17779134)

Here are the poll results [virtualireland.ru] of exUSSR citizens that live abroad (mostly in Ireland). Lots of them think it was FSB that killed Litvinenko, but majority actually think it was an accident (Lugovoi and Litvinenko were smuggling radioactive materials from Russia). Poll options one by one:
  1. Federal Security Bureau
  2. Russian Mafia that Litvinenko tried to blackmail
  3. Suicide to blame Putin
  4. Americans or other enemies of Russia
  5. Accident when smuggling radioactive materials
Option #5 seems to be the most popular one. I know this poll is not very representative, but it certainly beats your coworker's opinion... Tschuss...

Re:Summary From A Former Soviet Citizen (2, Insightful)

chord.wav (599850) | more than 7 years ago | (#17779404)

When can afford any method, there's no need to use a traceable one unless you want it to be traced. Even a bullet is less traceable than Polonium-210.

I'm a little (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17779014)

hot hot hot
teapot in England
such the stereotype
so commonplace
my especial polonium flavor goes un-noticed
tea will never be the same
thank you brother spintharascope
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