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Verizon Rejected iPhone Deal

kdawson posted more than 7 years ago | from the just-saying-no dept.

Communications 290

SnowDog74 writes "According to an article in USA Today, Verizon Wireless rejected an Apple deal over the iPhone. The article says that Verizon wasn't happy with the strict terms Apple demanded — a Verizon Wireless VP is quoted saying that Apple wanted a cut of monthly revenues and control of the customer relationship. What's perhaps equally interesting, however, is the implication from sources that say Cingular's exclusive 5-year deal with Apple applies within the United States only. If this is true, it undermines some of the criticism Apple has been receiving for their business strategy surrounding the iPhone, given the size of the cell-phone market outside the US."

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290 comments

iGot (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17808064)

iGot First Post

Thanks,
Cingular

Re:iGot (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17808850)

That was actually pretty clever for a first post whore.

interesting? no. (5, Insightful)

grub (11606) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808078)


What's perhaps equally interesting, however, is the implication from sources that say Cingular's exclusive 5-year deal with Apple applies within the United States only.

duh... perhaps Cingular isn't used outside the US (or very much?) They aren't in .ca, for example.

Re:interesting? no. (5, Insightful)

Andy_R (114137) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808134)

Exactly. Cingular have no visible presence at all here in Britain either, nobody expected that deal to apply here either.

Re:interesting? no. (1)

ack154 (591432) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808460)

While that deal may not apply, it doesn't mean Apple won't try to ink some multi year deal with some other specific carriers around the rest of the world though.

Re:interesting? no. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17808284)

And here in Slobovia, we have no Verizon either.

They are neither in .mx (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17808406)

That's the same I thougth.

Re:interesting? no. (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17808766)

Why does that matter? The deal with Cingular has been reported to mean that the iPhone is exclusively available to Cingular customers. For Apple to sell the phone overseas, that exclusivity clause would have to specifically indicate the US market only or Apple could get sued by Cingular for selling the iPhone in other countries.

So it's still important to note that the deal with Cingular applies only to the US market because it opens up the possibility that the iPhone will be available to users in other countries.

Mono, what? Poly or something? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17808890)

"According to an article in USA Today, Verizon Wireless rejected an Apple deal over the iPhone. The article says that Verizon wasn't happy with the strict terms Apple demanded -- a Verizon Wireless VP is quoted saying that Apple wanted a cut of monthly revenues and control of the customer relationship. What's perhaps equally interesting, however, is the implication from sources that say Cingular's exclusive 5-year deal with Apple applies within the United States only. If this is true, it undermines some of the criticism Apple has been receiving for their business strategy surrounding the iPhone, given the size of the cell-phone market outside the US."
Hmmmm... what's that one thing... about using market domination in one area to start gaining market domination in another? Isn't that like some kind of anti-trust law or something?

Isn't that, like, that thing Apple and Lunix people are always, like, whining about Microsoft about?

Oh, THAT'S right... I forgot Apple has received "Slashdot's Favored Monopoly Status". That means Apple can do no wrong... no matter how immoral or brutally monopolistic they are (and have always been).

Yeah, who ever thought otherwise? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17809218)

Steve Jobs said unambiguously in the keynote that iPhone is planned to go to Europe and Asia in 2008. You pretty much have to have abandon the reality-based community to think otherwise.

Service & retailers: the other side of the coi (5, Informative)

sporkme (983186) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808086)

Granted, the revenue stream from added features seems to be the principal deal-breaker, but TFA also highlights that Verizon would be cut out of certain customer service decisions. However you feel about the company, they do pride themselves on their customer satisfaction numbers. As a retailer, I found their policies to err on the side of customer benefit.

Apple's terms would have cut out major retailers when it comes to the handset, making it more difficult to retain those retail partners. It also would have taken warranty policy from the carrier to the manufacturer - and the iPhone would be the only handset with this arrangement. I think customers would have hated it, but maybe Apple planned to be more fair. How are they on iPod warranty?

Verizon has been treading lightly with retailers since their split with Radio Shack (over R$ revenue). The separation hurt both companies right off the bat, and the implications of the separation are still developing. If Wal-Mart and Best Buy were cut out of the iPhone deal, they might have such a sour taste that they skip off to Cingular instead.

If Cingular's terms do not exclude third-party retailers, Verizon will suffer anyway.

Re:Service & retailers: the other side of the (1)

AoT (107216) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808370)

Apple's terms would have cut out major retailers when it comes to the handset, making it more difficult to retain those retail partners.

I'd guess that this would be for a limited time, and for the benefit of Apple. Those big stores are notorious (ahem.. Walmart) for using their bulk buying to get better deals.

Or maybe Apple just wants all that foot traffic into their store, and they won't be able to supply Apple stores, cell stores, and big chain retailers.

Re:Service & retailers: the other side of the (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17808434)

However you feel about the company, they do pride themselves on their customer satisfaction numbers.

I've never been a Verizon customer... but from what I've heard [blogspot.com] , "customer satisfaction" is not their top priority.

Re:Service & retailers: the other side of the (4, Interesting)

Tarwn (458323) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808554)

Customer service numbers? They might pride themselves on those numbers, but they are as full of crap as their systems. I'm sorry, any company who has a known issue of the IVR dropping options off of peoples accounts for years, that then decides to not fix the IVR system is not what I would call customer-oriented.
Or how about the fact that they care so much about their customers that they require their call reps to handle anything non-call related in their spare moments between making call quotas? You know, those little things like recalculating bills that have gone awry (see IVR) or filing the paperwork...

My wife worked for Verizon, the only thing they care less about then their customers is their computer systems - except for th mice, those have to be installed by an expert technician. Probably not the same one that installed the fully tested software update that took down your entire department yesterday, cannot be backed out of, and is costing you your paycheck (if your not answering phones, your not earning...)

Yep, customers are number one, provided you qualify that statement as "after everythig else but the computer systems..."

Re:Service & retailers: the other side of the (2, Interesting)

sporkme (983186) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808742)

I don't doubt any of this. Big companies can never seem to nail the IT end of things. I never had a problem, however, calling in and getting problems solved with a Real Human Being (TM). For Sprint, Cingular and prepaid cellular accounts, getting problems fixed is typically a monumental task. I think Verizon's call center employees are more likely to be willing and able to help compared to other providers, based on my experience. We used a special number that got us straight to the retention department when caring for our clients.

I would also like to point out the strict nature of Verizon's credit score requirements, and the large deposits ($500 or more) that are required for Sprint^W less qualified applicants.

Re:Service & retailers: the other side of the (5, Interesting)

um... Lucas (13147) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808946)

As a retailer, I found their policies to err on the side of customer benefit.

Ermm... I had 4 lines on a family plan...We were all happily using our 1800 minutes or whatever, and i was paying 170 or 180 a month. One month, there was a crisis in the family, and the total of calls was quite a bit in excess of our minutes, to the point that my bill was $680... I called customer service and explained the situation, and they said they'ed forward that along with a backdated request to up my minute allotment since i never went over and always paid on time... They said that this was a situation they've had before and that was usually the way that it was remedied... a few days later, i got a call from them that said that billing had determined that it "wasn't in the customers best interest" to do so...

Now, if they had said "sorry, but there's nothing we can do about it" that'd have been one thing... But they said "there is something we do about that" and then turned around and decided NOT to... That has made me one unhappy verizon customer... Of course, I'm sticking with them because my contracts up in June, and guess what comes out then on another network?

So no... I can't see how verizon is a customer service oriented carrier... everything with them is like pulling teeth...

Let's see how Verizon feels at the end of the year (3, Funny)

TheSlashaway (1032228) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808098)

Let's see how Verizon feels at the end of the year when a googazilion iPhones are sold.

Re:Let's see how Verizon feels at the end of the y (1)

greenhaven (1057220) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808112)

Looks like they won't be getting a home run tonight.

Re:Let's see how Verizon feels at the end of the y (1)

Divebus (860563) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808426)

Do you suppose the rejection of the iPhone deal had anything to do with the fact Verizon was planning services which compete against everything on it? Not suggesting that Verizon will dry up and blow away anytime soon, but this is the highest profile threat Verizon will face in all those areas [voice in head: but it's only Cingular].

Re:Let's see how Verizon feels at the end of the y (2, Funny)

TheSHAD0W (258774) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808734)

Yeah, and Apple gets 500 googazilion dollars of revenue.

Then gets sued by Google for revenue similarity...

Re:Let's see how Verizon feels at the end of the y (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808818)

The Razr lockup didn't seem to be that big a deal.

I'm not in the market for a $500 phone, not even one that actually made me cooler(as opposed to feeling like it); I wonder how many people really are? Certainly a large number(that will grow as they cut the price), but I doubt five million people care, and they are both somewhere near 60 million subscribers, so those 5 million are important, but they aren't the world.

Perhaps smug? (1)

JacksBrokenCode (921041) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808934)

When the phone is released and it's overpriced for the casual market and underpowered for the business market and even if they sell a decent number of units it will be considered a flop because Jobs set the bar too high... maybe Verizon will be sitting back thinking "I'm glad we dodged that one."

Re:Let's see how Verizon feels at the end of the y (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17809146)

I don't think Apple will be able to sell that many for scrap. They'll probably bury them like Atari did with their unsold game cartridges in the 1980's.

Huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17808106)

Anyone who thought it DID apply outside the states must be a complete idiot, seeing how Singular and Verizon aren't even on some of those markets at all. I suppose Apple could just give those markets up. <snicker>

Five years? (4, Funny)

Rodness (168429) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808126)

That's one hell of an exclusive deal. As much as I hate Cingular and their pricing plans, I'm not sure I can wait five years for other networks to have that phone... especially if they put out a nano-sized version.

Sigh... why oh why can't I have my apple and eat it too?

Re:Five years? (1)

Dr. Spork (142693) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808498)

I'm confused about what the contract says. Will the phones be locked by contract to work only on Cingular, or is the deal that Cingular will be the only carrier to offer them to their customers?

In other words, will there be an unlocked iPhone available into which I can install my T-Mobile sim card? It's not clear to me that the five-year deal precludes that. Besides, even if it does, I'm sure unlocked iPhones will be available on the internet, since they will be demanded in other countries. Is there anything standing in the way of them just working with a T-Mobile sim card, like any other unlocked phone?

Re:Five years? (1)

Reaperducer (871695) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808752)

Is there anything standing in the way of them just working with a T-Mobile sim card, like any other unlocked phone?
Possibly. It's been fairly well documented that Apple's deal with Cingular involved them modifying the Cingular system in order to support the Visual Voice Mail feature.

Whether this will happen with other carriers around the world remains to be seen. I suspect what will happen is that when you roam on another carrier (say T-Mobile or something outside the country) your phone will work OK, but that particular feature won't work unless you're roaming on a carrier that has similarly modified its network to support the Apple feature.

They've got the business model all worked out (2, Funny)

User 956 (568564) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808522)

As much as I hate Cingular and their pricing plans, I'm not sure I can wait five years for other networks to have that phone..

What, you mean $31,000 a month for Cingular service [heraldtribune.com] isn't cheap enough for you?

Re:Five years? (5, Insightful)

Frogbert (589961) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808692)

Americans need to get with the program. I don't know how your phone systems work there, but in the rest of the world all you need to do to change phones is to buy the phone and put your sim card in it. What is going on over there?

Re:Five years? (2, Informative)

jZnat (793348) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808756)

Competing standards on how to transmit and receive on the phone (GSM isn't the only one here), and mobile phone company subsidising of cell phone prices with contracts (otherwise the phones are a lot more expensive, and I don't even know where you can buy the normal, unlocked phones without a contract).

Re:Five years? (1)

Buran (150348) | more than 7 years ago | (#17809002)

"I don't even know where you can buy the normal, unlocked phones without a contract)."

Like a zillion other things ... on the website of the company that manufactures them.

Who would have ever imagined that?

Re:Five years? (1)

doktor-hladnjak (650513) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808784)

A mixture of CDMA [wikipedia.org] and GSM as opposed to pure GSM plus a cell phone market where all companies lock the phones you buy to only work with that carrier. Fortunately, the laws just changed (I believe by a court ruling) such that having a third part unlock your phone for you is now completely legal.

Re:Five years? (-1, Troll)

Reaperducer (871695) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808790)

Americans need to get with the program. I don't know how your phone systems work there
Thank you for your honesty. Most Slashdotters won't admit they're pulling crap out of their asses before spouting off. You, sir, have broken the mold.

I recommend you get off your Euro-centric high horse about cell phone lock-in because I've seen phone carriers from England to Austria to Japan who all play the same lock-in game.

in the rest of the world all you need to do to change phones is to buy the phone and put your sim card in it.
Just like in the United States (though with more limited carrier choice). Now go troll over on slashdot.eu or something.

Re:Five years? (2, Informative)

jonwil (467024) | more than 7 years ago | (#17809212)

Here in Australia with Telstra, you can buy phones on contract from Telstra and said phones are NOT locked to the Telstra network. Of course if you want to drop out of the contract before its up, there are early termination fees that you have to pay. You can also walk into the store and buy any phone they sell outright with no contract, no subsidy and no network lock and then use it with any carrier that is compatible (in australia or otherwise)

The only phones Telstra lock to their network are prepaid phones and I think they may even unlock those if you have spent enough money with them.

If Cingular did the same thing with the iPhone and sold it completely unlocked at whatever cost they had to sell it at to make a profit from the iPhone sale, all this would be a moot point.

Re:Five years? (2, Insightful)

babbling (952366) | more than 7 years ago | (#17809034)

What's so special about the phone? It can't run 3rd party applications, so the only interesting things it can do are:
- Play music crippled by DRM
- Surf the net
- A few features that all PDAs have, such as calendar and notes

The interface is nice because it's a big touch screen, but if my experience with Apple hardware is anything to go by, it won't be very durable.

The only thing the iPhone has over other PDA phones is Steve Jobs and Apple marketing it. By the time it comes out there will probably already be a different PDA phone with similar capabilities that can run 3rd party applications. That will lead to interesting possibilities while the completely proprietary Apple fanatics lock themselves into DRM hell.

Re:Five years? (1)

Rodness (168429) | more than 7 years ago | (#17809136)

Actually, I want it because the interface for phone calls and text messages blows everything else away.

I don't care so much about the ipod functionality (I already have one that I only use at the gym) or the web browser. I want it because I can't manage a conference call or even call waiting on my phone without dropping someone 70% of the time.

3rd party apps? Who the hell cares. It's a phone. It makes phone calls. That's what I want it for. There are no good third party apps anyway.

DRM? Fairplay vs PlaysForSure.. I'll take Fairplay. You can always cut a cd and rerip if it bothers you so much.

Re:Five years? (1)

aesiamun (862627) | more than 7 years ago | (#17809176)

Yeah because it can't play mp3 files or unecumbered aac files...

jackass

Re:Five years? (1)

rolfwind (528248) | more than 7 years ago | (#17809228)

1. There are benefits only to Apple - Multitouch as it is implemented in the iPhone is propietary, owned by Apple (bought up by, actually, look up Fingerworks in google) and is not available elsewhere in its current implementation. I have a Fingerworks Keyboard, it works very well and there has not been a replacement - look up on ebay - people buy the keyboards used for $600-900, they were $299 retail before the company shut down when they sold.

2. I find it hilarious that people think that something "as good" will come out in the time Apple has this phone to market. I've been waiting since '97 that does those feature Apple has and does them well. Granted, I'm not sure if Apple is that great, but the demonstration by Jobs blew away my own experience with mobile phones, smart phones, etcetera. The other phones suck. They've made it worse, not better, in the last ten years when talking about actually using the features packaged. To think that the companies can rush out a job as good in six short months is ridiculous. The ball is in Apple's court to get it wrong.

3. If this phone sucked so much, why do people go on and on about it? Why isn't it like Apple's Cube, which Jobs demoed and just sank?

I'll acknowledge several things: This phone isn't a guaranteed hit, it has to deliver when it comes out. 4/8GB is too small if it wants to do video too (and well, should have been 16/32). I hate that it is tied to one provider.

Verizon's big mistake (3, Informative)

Ankou (261125) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808140)

Ya think this is one of those times like when the guy who didn't sign the Beatles for a record deal? At anyrate, I find it funny that there are statements like free 18 months [thestreet.com] switching from Verizon to Cinguar with the iPhone. I have no idea if this is true or not, but it would be quite a slap in the face. Maby this will be a wakeup call to the cell phone companies that they are completly clueless about the market they control.

Re:Verizon's big mistake (4, Informative)

Veinor (871770) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808232)

The Consumerist has reported that the free 18 months is false [consumerist.com] (original story [barrons.com] )

Re:Verizon's big mistake (1)

Ankou (261125) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808274)

Boo, oh well, one can hope anyway, thanks for the update.

It's all about branding (2, Interesting)

EmbeddedJanitor (597831) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808334)

Apple is a fashion brand, and Cingular (AT&T) probably is not. One of the biggest headaches for Apple is getting the right branding partners so that the iphone does not get associated with stodgy/boring services. Cell phone companies really hate churn. The iphone will probably have significant brand loyalty (as ipods do) and an exclusive deal will combat churn. However Cingular will have to come up with suitable ad campaigns etc to make sure that they appeal to the apple set otherwise both brands will suffer. No doubt Apple, who are very brand savvy, would have made these campaigns part of the deal.

Re:Verizon's big mistake (1)

Mr. Underbridge (666784) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808382)

Maby this will be a wakeup call to the cell phone companies that they are completly clueless about the market they control.

Or maybe it will be a wakeup call to Apple fans to remind them that the company that made the iPod also made the flop that was the Newton. They're not infallible, and given the terms Apple was demanding, it would definitely need to be to make it worth it.

Re:Verizon's big mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17809102)

Or when the Blazers passed on Michael Jordan...

As a Verizon customer (5, Insightful)

twbecker (315312) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808174)

that has no intention of switching to Cingular, iPhone or no, I can believe this. Verizon gives me the best coverage and call quality (which believe it or not is what I value in a cell phone company ;), but they demand total control of their phones and what you put on them in return. Between neutered Bluetooth and very few ways to get anything onto the device short of VCAST, they make Cingular's openness seem pretty tempting. But I've heard too many complaints about Cingular's network to consider switching.

Re:As a Verizon customer (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17808450)

DO NOT switch to Cingular. They have the worst network EVER... and we are talking about in Atlanta, Ga right next to _their_ BellSouth, now AT&T building.

People complain about Sprint being the worst, but I say Cingular is. They may have the least "dropped calls" (I disagree) but they have the MOST non-connecting calls. You dial, 15 secs later, a time out even thought you have full bars (this on multiple phones).

In my book, the line up goes like this:
1) Verizon
2) T-Mobile
3) ...
4) ...
4.5) Sprint
5) Cingular

I loved being with T-Mobile, but they aren't very good at incentives for current customers (one of 3 years!!) so me and my friends switched to Cingular cause Sprint sucked and Verizon was too expensive for college students. After my 2 YEAR contract, I am CERTAINLY going to go back to T-Mobile, possible even Verizon if the company takes the bill.

Re:As a Verizon customer (1)

Ucklak (755284) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808770)

These tripe lists are opinions. YMMV in all cases.

I've been a T-mobile customer, Verizon, Nextel, and Cingular.

Cingular is the only carrier where I reside now. T-mobile removed a tower and Verizon has an extremely weak signal.
Nextel was a company provided plan so that doesn't apply to me anymore.

I've had great service will all four of them.

My current opinion is

1)Cingular
2)T-Mobile
3)Verizon
4)Nextel

My opinion a year ago would have been
1)T-Mobile
2)Verizon
3)Nextel

and my opinion 3 years before that would be different too.

5 years ago, only VoiceStream (now T-mobile) had a family plan.

I've heard nothing but bad things about them and I've never had a complaint.

Re:As a Verizon customer (1)

Gerhardius (446265) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808620)

Or any cell customer who is not a fan boy of any tech companies: coverage and quality matter. The iPhone likely won't "change the market" as some dream but it will fill a niche. The ultimate size of the niche depends on how quickly the inevitable first generation problems are sorted out, and when the phone makers produce their responses. Typically Apple has huge margins, @ 50%, so they have plenty of room to cut prices should the need arise, http://www.isuppli.com/news/default.asp?id=7308&m= 1&y=2007 [isuppli.com] has estimates.

Re:As a Verizon customer (1)

JacksBrokenCode (921041) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808982)

I've used Verizon & Cingular (since back when it was ATT Wireless). 3 years ago I would've agreed with you 100%, but I haven't had any trouble with Cingular's network in recent memory. You also can't use your Verizon phone overseas but I doubt that affects too many people here. The only pain-in-the-ass with Cingular was making sure that modified phone flexes were capable of switching back & forth between ATT and Cingular towers. I haven't mucked with that in a while so I'm not sure if it's still an issue.

Re:As a Verizon customer (3, Interesting)

Buran (150348) | more than 7 years ago | (#17809030)

"but they demand total control of their phones and what you put on them in return."

That's exactly why Verizon would never accept the iPhone. Apple wants total control over the phone and its design and how it looks. Verizon wants the same.

What do you get when two immovable objects stare across a room at each other?

The third one that realizes that denying people the ability to do what they want with what they pay for gets the big deal. Cingular doesn't cripple its phones.

Verizon getting the iPhone would have shocked me.

I'm also glad it didn't go CDMA in general -- I don't want to have to call support just to do something simple like change phones.

Surprised (1)

darkenbinary (825639) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808176)

"The problem? While Apple and Verizon stores would have it, Wal-Mart, Best Buy and other Verizon distributors could have been left out." It surprises me that Apple would want to keep these two box giants from carrying the iPhone. I am sure they sell a very large amount of iPods currently.

foreign iPhone sales (2, Interesting)

Dr Kool, PhD (173800) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808184)

I don't think iPhone will be a hit in Europe or Asia like it might be here in America. Two thirds of Apple's revenue comes from the USA [sec.gov] . It's clear that Europe and Asia are not as infatuated with Apple's products as America.

Re:foreign iPhone sales (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17808486)

"I don't think iPhone will be a hit in Europe or Asia like it might be here in America."

Outside of the fanboys, it's not going to be that big a deal here in America either.

It actually has SEGWAY written all over it.

Re:foreign iPhone sales (1)

TheSlashaway (1032228) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808552)

You are very wrong about Europe but right about Asia. Americans have no sense of what cell phones are available in Asia. They have had video, television, digital camera, etc.. on their keitai cell phones for years in Japan.

Re:foreign iPhone sales (1)

paedobear (808689) | more than 7 years ago | (#17809068)

And this is different to Europe how? Well, the DVB-H rollout is slower than the one-seg rollout, but that's to be expected of a superior (but more expensive) technology.

Re:foreign iPhone sales (1)

deadlock911 (629647) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808586)

Is there a reason you put Europe (1 billion people) and Asia (4 billion people) on the same scale as the USA? (300 million)
The US market is not the largest by any means, Apple can afford to sign away a monopolizing deal to another company in the states and still maintain an open business practice elsewhere.

Re:foreign iPhone sales (1)

IANAAC (692242) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808630)

Is there a reason you put Europe (1 billion people) and Asia (4 billion people) on the same scale as the USA? (300 million)
Yes, there is a reason. He's talking about where Apple gets (and has always gotten) the majority of their revenue from. The US. It doesn't matter that Europe and Asia are bigger markets if they're not buying.

Re:foreign iPhone sales (1)

Critical_ (25211) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808978)

Surprisingly enough, I would agree with what you have to say. I've been living in the UK for the last 7 months and Apple products aren't the hip-thing here. Sony seems to be all the rage for just about everything consumer electronic-y.

Re:foreign iPhone sales (1)

minus_273 (174041) | more than 7 years ago | (#17809140)

i think that just means europe and asia dont have enough money. being in asia right now,i can say rest assured, ipods are big here

Apple iPhone (5, Insightful)

softcoder (252233) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808214)

Well there has already been an announcement from a Canadian cell phone company that they will also be carrying the iPhone. You will note too that Apple chose GSM, the European and worldwide standard, as opposed to CDMA, a primarily NA one, for the phone. Does that tell you anything?

Re:Apple iPhone (2, Informative)

icebike (68054) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808420)

"You will note too that Apple chose GSM, the European and worldwide standard, as opposed to CDMA, a primarily NA one, for the phone. Does that tell you anything?"



Yes, it tells us that GSM penetration in the US and Canada is almost at 50% of the area covered by CDMA.


Its really pointless the keep harping on this CDMA/GSM rag. GMS is fine for itty-bitty countries where you can't get out of sight of the nearest town. It takes vastly more towers than CDMA. In Canada, and the US those towers are being built at a record pace. But the job is orders of magnitude larger than putting up 50 towers that cover entire countries as in the EU.

Re:Apple iPhone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17808526)

[GSM] takes vastly more towers than CDMA.

It does? Why's that? Got a source? I know little about either, and I'd be interested to hear more.

Re:Apple iPhone (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17808722)

Due to timing restrictions GSM can't go further than 35km, even if you have good signal strength. CDMA (well, IS-95) is only restricted by the signal strength.

In Australia GSM was installed in all the cities, but in rural areas a CDMA (IS-95) network was installed for the extra range. Of course, since Australia isn't in the stone ages CDMA is now being replaced with a HSDPA 3G network. America, having a universally shitty mobile phone setup will have CDMA forever.

CDMA phones are unfriendly to free software (3, Informative)

tepples (727027) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808594)

Its really pointless the keep harping on this CDMA/GSM rag.

The problem I've seen with phones that use Qualcomm's IS-95 [wikipedia.org] system (often called CDMA after its physical layer) is that phones for IS-95 often support only Qualcomm's BREW environment [wikipedia.org] , which uses digital signature requirements to shut out developers of shareware, freeware, and free software from porting their software to common IS-95 phones. As I understand it, phones that support GSM are more likely to support Java ME MIDP [wikipedia.org] , which generally allows anybody to compile and run a midlet.

Re:Apple iPhone (1)

venicebeach (702856) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808996)

You will note too that Apple chose GSM, the European and worldwide standard, as opposed to CDMA, a primarily NA one, for the phone. Does that tell you anything?
Err... the point of this article was that they went to Verizon first. So we can't say they went GSM to get the Euro market if their first choice was CDMA. What it tells me is that they could could put either technology in the iPhone if they choose to.

Re:Apple iPhone (1)

sachu (608279) | more than 7 years ago | (#17809124)

I think Apple was not particularly looking for GSM or CDMA technology as far as US is concerned. They are after the network providers with the most customer base and thus #1 Cingular and #2 Verizon.

criticism you say? (1)

mcguyver (589810) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808236)

it undermines some of the criticism Apple has been receiving for their business strategy surrounding the iPhone

Can you elaborate on this...

no way in heck a CDMA phone ever in the cards (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17808248)

With CDMA's extreme power requirements viz-a-viz GSM, and apple's insistence on an irreplaceable lithium ion battery (for planned obsolescence, their key repurchase driver), Verizon was never a serious option.

Expensive data plan & single carrier - Nah (1)

$exyNerdie (683214) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808258)

Cingular's iPhone data plan for slower speed is more than twice of what I pay ($15/mo) for unlimited data access through Sprint's vision network on my Windows Mobile Phone (which replaced Treo 600). I am happy with the service and don't want people trying to steal my "iPod phone" which is probably even easier with SIM cards to replace (not sure if iPhone has a SIM card). I am not switching. My phone works well.

Whats the big deal? (4, Insightful)

schnoid (834307) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808280)

People act like the iphone is THE gadget that will ruin all other service providers if they don't have it. Considering its hardly even a smartphone because you can't even add software to it, it seems to be very lacking. Its only major benefit over something like a treo is the size and style of the phone. People need to get a grip. Other cell providers will not be going out of business over this.

not a match for Verizon (5, Informative)

r00t (33219) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808288)

Verizon wants to disable EVERYTHING on the phone that isn't pay-per-use. If you were thinking the iPhone was restrictive, think again.

Re:not a match for Verizon (1)

ScottCooperDotNet (929575) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808478)

Not sure if that's an American(R) thing or just a Verizon(TM) thing, but it disappoints me greatly that elsewhere phones are being used in innovative ways that America(R) can only dream of.

$5 for Internet on my phone per month, plus data? 10 cents a piece for a text message that is less than 250 bytes? $3 per ringtone that I can get on iTunes(TM) for a single $? Not to mention the numbers listed as having called my phone that I have never heard of? Measuring calls in minutes instead of seconds?

Re:not a match for Verizon (2, Interesting)

Reaperducer (871695) | more than 7 years ago | (#17809044)

$5 for Internet on my phone per month, plus data? 10 cents a piece for a text message that is less than 250 bytes? $3 per ringtone that I can get on iTunes(TM) for a single $? Not to mention the numbers listed as having called my phone that I have never heard of? Measuring calls in minutes instead of seconds?
Doesn't sound like you need a new country, just a new phone company.

$5/month for unlimited data? Sounds like T-Mobile USA. 10 cent text messages? Sounds like T-Mobile USA and a number of others. I can use any MP3 or open AAC file I want as my ringtone for free because I wasn't stupid enough to buy some locked-in carrier-provided phone and contract. And there are companies that measure calls in seconds instead of minutes. And ones that give free incoming calls (U.S. Cellular leaps to mind).

I think you're whining about a particular bad contract you're stuck in. Not everyone makes bad decisions.

Re:not a match for Verizon (1)

rwyoder (759998) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808658)

Verizon wants to disable EVERYTHING on the phone that isn't pay-per-use. If you were thinking the iPhone was restrictive, think again.
Exactly! When my old StarTac gave out, Verizon wanted to sell me a Razr that was so crippled, the only thing Bluetooth could do was operate a headset. So I canceled my service and went to Sprint where I got the same phone, for the same price, but *fully* functional.

Working with Apple's like dating a supermodel (2, Interesting)

Eternal Vigilance (573501) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808298)

Glamorous, yeah, and it looks really impressive at PR time. But when the cameras are off and you're just hanging around the apartment trying to have a relationship, you spend a whole lotta time ducking the cellphones being thrown at your head. [msn.com]

IBM decided Apple wasn't worth the pain. Looks like Verizon's making that same call, too.


"Steve Jobs makes Simon Cowell look positively sycophantic."

Re:Working with Apple's like dating a supermodel (1)

mgabrys_sf (951552) | more than 7 years ago | (#17809010)

re:"IBM decided Apple wasn't worth the pain."

That explains Apple rejecting IBM and going with Intel. No wait - no it doesn't - your remark doesn't make any sense at all.

Is this the latest from the Wintel trollforums? What insights they're coming up with these days. Amazing.

Re:Working with Apple's like dating a supermodel (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17809078)

Apparently IBM's collective IQ was enough to notice a teeny-tiny detail that your mental prowess missed. Namely, allocating R&D for Apple's benefit was a low return of investment. So they preferred to put it where the money flows - that is, their own Power lines. And Apple "rejected" IBM after being told "wait in line for your turn." Yeah, PR is an amazing thing.

Perhaps you think the Steve can pull rabbits out of empty hats, but in the real world there are such boring details as cost-benefit analyses to be considered. See, for instance, how Intel is ready to push Xeons to 45nm within a year, but is mum as far as 65nm Itanics are concerned. Then ask yourself why is that. Alternatively, feel free to keep up the good trolling and be ignored.

Exclusive to Rogers in Canada (2, Interesting)

Rix (54095) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808318)

However, I believe we have the right to demand locked phones be unlocked, so I'm not sure how that will play out.

Re:Exclusive to Rogers in Canada (2, Interesting)

Shadyman (939863) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808824)

Rogers unlocks phones, I believe the rate is ~$250/phone.

Re:Exclusive to Rogers in Canada (1)

Tsian (70839) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808902)

But, even if you unlock it, what will you do with it in Canada? Take it to Fido, which is also owned by Rogers?

Cingular needs all the help it can get... (2, Interesting)

LOTHAR, of the Hill (14645) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808390)

Cingular is suffering and hungry. Cingular as a name doesn't even exist anymore, but is reverting back to the ATT brand name.

Verizon sucks, but doesn't need Apple's business.

Aside from the fact the the iPhone is overrated, I think that the deal will hurt Cingular in the long run. Sharing revenues (not profits) could end being a case of "giving away the farm to sell a horse" kind of deal for Cingular.

Re:Cingular needs all the help it can get... (5, Insightful)

maxume (22995) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808852)

I'm pretty sure the worst phone company is the one the person you are asking last moved away from, and the best one is whatever they have, unless they think that they all suck.

Good (3, Informative)

tehaxer (959342) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808444)

Verizon's the best carrier in the US, and they rejected a stupid phone that came with a bunch of rules that would have been bad for them and their customers. I have no doubt that apple fanpeople will eat up the phone, but I don't think the hype is enough to carry a non-fanperson all the way through buying a 500$ phone that is about the same size as the new Samsung (and probably other companies') PDA phones, yet doesn't have real pda functionality, integration with things that matter (mine is 2 years old and handles exchange, secure imap and smtp, has picsel, a great browser which samsung quietly distributes, and which apple I'm sure would devote an entire SHOW to since they have such limited resources that creating such a thing would feel like a big deal to them), a keyboard, 3g networking, 3rd party programs, sd slot? (Not sure...). It's not a good fit for a Verizon or Sprint, since they're serious carriers. Cingular is perfect for the iPhone. T-Mobile, too.


I mean, telling everyone a product you're releasing into a market that has generally been considered the highest of high tech for the last 5 years, then actually using 'High Technology' as the 4th bullet point on the front of the box and all your advertising is pretty stupid. I think the Verizon decision makers probably played out a sales scenerio in their heads between one of their reps and someone like me (I'd imagine a fairly typical Verizon customer), realized it made them look like idiots ("But but, it's HIGH techNOLOGY!!") and decided they'd let the kiddie carriers deal with the kiddie customers.


eff ell aim!

Lucky us (2, Insightful)

fermion (181285) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808540)

While verizon might be good for some people, for those of us with good Cingular coverage, verizon just seems like an overpriced, pompous, and unresponsive company. They probably would have wanted to do stuff like cut out the address book feature and have music and video transferable only over their network.

While I understand that many people find Cingular to be joke, I am happy that cingular was flexible enough to adopt a phone that will likely force them to reevaluate their business model. They will certainly have rethink the data rates, and they are not likely to make any money off music downloads.

In a couple years, I am sure verizon, and it's customers, will be perfectly happy with the iPod knockoff Zunefone, with it's verizon only music downloads and it's DRM protected overpriced ringtones. I am sure everyone will continue to say how great Verizon is, and how the Zunefone surpasses the Apple phone is copies, although even today, with existing products, neither is true.

Re:Lucky us (0, Flamebait)

tehaxer (959342) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808598)

Rolf. We won't need it since we already have smartphones and pda phones that play wma/v, both DRMd and not DRMd, transferrable from your pc (or maybe mac, but who cares!) via an included cradle. Oh, transferrable to an sd card, of which you can carry many. And it's funny you should bring up DRM, since Apple's DRM is much nastier than MSFT's. Let's check it out!


MSFT's is open (encryption); they aren't trying to use it to corner the market on downloaded music.
MSFT's is open (playback); they aren't trying to use it to corner the market on portable music devices.
MSFT 2, Apple 0.
Oh... MSFT 3, Apple 0 because every iTunes customer I've ever met had no idea they couldn't move their music around. Way to go misleading your customers AGAIN, Apple. Remember when PPC was faster than x86? Holy cow, neither do I!!! But I'm sure Apple customers do.

Haha! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17808578)

Verizon sucks! Eat that fanbois!

Re:Haha! (0, Offtopic)

riceboy50 (631755) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808592)

Cingular sucks douchebag. Haha, pwnd!

Five years? Thought it was two. (3, Insightful)

straponego (521991) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808622)

I could swear the clowntards at Cingular were crowing about a two year exclusive deal. Also, they mentioned that the Cingular name and logo would ALWAYS be on screen. Doesn't that mean they were effectively lying about the resolution, as some of the resolution will always be used only in a user-hostile fashion?

Ah well, the hardware looks great and it's certainly a platform which could handle almost everything you could want from the current generation. Too bad it's going to be on a crappy, slow network run by a company which is gloating about how badly it can treat its customers due to having a monopoly.

Good news: this will make Linux-based phones much better, much sooner.

Re:Five years? Thought it was two. (2, Informative)

0100010001010011 (652467) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808962)

You have to sign a 2 year contract to get the phone from Cingular.

Cingular signed a 5 year contract with Apple.

I wonder what the 'early cancelation fee' is for that contract.

iphone is a rip (-1, Troll)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808670)

$800 for a phone AND the plan on top of that? fucking rip off if you compare it with ever other packages out there. so what if it plays mp3 and video, so does other phones for a fuckload less. and your not locked in for 5 YEARS. you think the iphone will be cutting edge after even 12 months?

Re:iphone is a rip (1)

mgabrys_sf (951552) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808804)

Wrong price trollfucker. Although the price you mentioned was what the RAZR was introduced in 2004 at without a plan.

Re:iphone is a rip (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17808856)

If by $800 you mean $500, and by 5 years you mean 2 years.

Re:iphone is a rip (1)

mgabrys_sf (951552) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808876)

Yes, I did a double take on the TOP OF THE FRIGGING ARTICLE which got the years wrong. And let's get real. Verizon is the king of nickel and dime. I'm still hacking my RAZR to turn on all the crap they turned off. And these are the guys that have it all over Cingular? Puleeze.

Re:iphone is a rip (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17809226)

They did sign an exclusive five year deal, so he was correct.

And my Treo works fine for Verizon, with all the features - including free ringtones, syncing, calendaring, etc. Try buying a real phone instead of blaming Verizon for everything.

You must be the biggest Apple apologist I have seen here. Everyone has their faults, try to accept that.

Sprint Nextel (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17808720)

I heard Sprint Nextel was approached as well for their streaming video capability. They turned Apple down for the exact same reason. Apple was too demanding.

Yet More Examples of Steve Jobs/Apple Arrogance (1, Flamebait)

BSDetector (1056962) | more than 7 years ago | (#17808838)

Hey Slashdotters!!! How's life in the church of Jobs? Some quotes from the article...

"One of the big sticking points for Verizon was the fact that Apple wanted control of the distribution of the product."

"Specifically, Apple only wanted to sell the iPhone through Verizon stores or the Apple retail stores, locking out other Verizon distributors..."

"...the deal they (Apple) wanted would have frozen out those partners"

"Apple also supposedly wanted a percentage of the service revenue..."

"Apple wanted sole discretion ..."

"Apple CEO Steve Jobs insisted that he have hard control ..."

Yay (1)

Thirdsin (1046626) | more than 7 years ago | (#17809008)

As a Verizon Wireless customer this is something I will likely never say again to them... THANK YOU.

It's not that I do not like "options" and "trendy things"...But I am glad Verizon looked at what was put in front of them, recognized the one-sidedness (according to the article) of the deal and told Apple to piss off. I'm sure that Cingular (AT@T, w/e) was bent over the table in their deal with Apple... That said, I hope that having been reject by Verizon previously, Apple's demands that will inevitably hit the consumer in the wallet were somewhat reduced.

Fuck Verizon (3, Insightful)

Mix+Master+Nixon (1018716) | more than 7 years ago | (#17809152)

A loathsome company even by teleco standards, they really and truly despise their customers and Microsoft could learn a thing or two about pure rancid evil from them. I've had multiple friends and relatives tell tales of $1000 deposits to get cell phone service from them. That is so far out of proportion to reality it boggles the mind. The ONLY thing they have going for them is that they have better coverage than their competition - but it's not worth it, not even close, and the competition is rapidly catching up to them. All their phones are hobbled with their awful, locked-down software - even if it WASN'T locked down, their software is pure crap. When my contract with them is up, I run far far away, and they never get another dime of my money for anything, ever.

And I can't help but think that I'm not the only person who feels this way. Their customer-hostile antics will eventually bite them in the ass, and I am going to enjoy watching that happen as much as I'd enjoy watching Microsoft implode - maybe more.

smart move (3, Interesting)

PureCreditor (300490) | more than 7 years ago | (#17809210)

by far the world's users who are willing to pay premiums for nice phones reside outside USA. go with verizon, and u'll limit yourself to handful of CDMA countries. go with cingular, and u'll open up nearly every country in europe and asia.

people in USA are too used to these "$49 RAZR" deals that they can't possible imagine paying $499 for the iPhone. european and asian users will. now if we can get Apple to strike deals with SK Telecom or NTT DoCoMo, then u're all set.
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