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Nvidia Faces Class Action Lawsuit Over Vista Drivers

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the can't-see-anything dept.

Graphics 445

Cocoshimmy writes "Nvidia is facing a class action lawsuit for false advertising by not providing stable working drivers for Vista. Nvidia has been accused of closing threads on Nvidia's forum and banning users that request a response from Nvidia, post that their Nvidia hardware does not work under Vista, post that Nvidia software does not work under Vista, post that Nvidia is guilty of false advertising, or threaten to sue Nvidia. Several disgruntled users have set up their own site for discussing their legal options."

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445 comments

Vista (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17868434)

I'd post first, but my monitor's on the fritz. Stupid new OS.

Re:Vista (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17868466)

I'd post first, but my monitor's on the fritz. Stupid new OS.
You'll get no sympathy here if you 'upgraded' to Vista.

Re:Vista DRM helps (4, Funny)

saskboy (600063) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868654)

It's that new Vista DRM feature, brought to you by the fine people at Nvidia:
Doesn't Really Matter (DRM) technology ensures that if you have a complaint, you can't visit an Nvidia or Microsoft website to lodge it.

Just use the 'nv' driver (5, Funny)

mhall119 (1035984) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868454)

I'm sure someone can port it to Vista. Tell me again about how Windows has better hardware support than Linux.

Re:Just use the 'nv' driver (1)

mark-t (151149) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868636)

Aren't all drivers required to be authorized by Microsoft to work with Vista?

Re:Just use the 'nv' driver (3, Informative)

TheAwfulTruth (325623) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868678)

No.

By default the 64 bit version wants this but it is easily turned off if you like.

So... No.

Re:Just use the 'nv' driver (1)

alienfluid (677872) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868816)

Taking this further, you don't need *Microsoft* to sign the drivers, you can sign it yourself if you'd like (using authenticode).


They just need it to be *signed* for 64-bit. Of course, if you'd like your hardware to be "logo'd" for Windows Vista (to use the label), you need to go through Microsoft. Here's the Windows Logo Program [microsoft.com] link

Re:Just use the 'nv' driver (1)

evilgrug (915703) | more than 7 years ago | (#17869090)

But it's highly unlikely the manufacturers are going to release unsigned 64-bit drivers with the helpful instruction to simply hold F8 and disable driver signature enforcement every time you start up your PC. While the default action is to prevent you from installing the driver, not even giving you the option to bypass it, the manufacturers just won't release drivers as quickly.

Which means that the "no drivers" situation is likely to continue on Vista x64 as it has on XP x64, at least while the majority of users run 32-bit.

Within 15 minutes of its inital install, my 32-bit Vista box was already running 3 unsigned drivers. Whereas on 64-bit Vista I had no drivers at all for my webcam, TV card, or sound card.

Re:Just use the 'nv' driver (5, Funny)

pandrijeczko (588093) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868694)

Please do not mock the Vista/Nvidia users - I can really sympathise with how they feel.

Having done a Linux kernel upgrade today, I had to type "emerge nvidia-drivers" at the command line and wait *A WHOLE THREE MINUTES* for the drivers to download and compile the module - during that time I had *NO* 3D acceleration on my Gnome desktop.

It was *NOT* pleasant, I can tell you!

Re:Just use the 'nv' driver (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17868732)

I imagine it was still 'unpleasant' when they finally downloaded and compiled, after all, you're using Gnome

Re:Just use the 'nv' driver (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17868802)

BURN!!!

Re:Just use the 'nv' driver (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17868844)

All I do is "apt-get update && apt-get -y upgrade" and everything is taken care of. When a new kernel is out, new versions of the nvidia driver are there with it it (Ubuntu provides binaries).

Tell me about it (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17868868)

I feel your pain, brother. Can you believe on my Ubuntu install I had to click twice, once to download Automatix, and one to run it, and as an intermediate step, I was actually forced to click a check mark agreeing that the Nvidia driver would be installed?

Two clicks PLUS a checkmark, to get an Nvidia driver installed in, like, not just one second, or two seconds, but like SEVERAL seconds!

I'm telling you - this new-fangled Linux thing is going to take a lo-o-o-ong time to be functional as a desktop. Why, it will take YEARS for it to catch up to all the glitches and disturbances that Windows has to offer!

Not funny, but actually hapenned with 3DFx (4, Interesting)

DrYak (748999) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868914)

Just use the 'nv' driver. I'm sure someone can port it to Vista.
Someone moded you funny, but in fact, it does make sense.
Most Windows XP 32/64 and Vista 32 drivers for 3DFx Voodoo cards are partially done by backporting libglide3x and mesa3d from linux to windows (and thus also earned the privilege of being among the few graphic boards supported in XP64)

Although not actually Windows XP/Vista per se, the Linux USB stack has been also ported to ReactOS (opensource clone of Windows NT family) and Cromwell (opensource BIOS for XBox).

Therefore, some simple driver, with no 3D acceleration could be possibly done out of source available in linux.
(And if nVidia still doesn't fix the problem*, maybe some useful infos from the Nouveau project could be used to add the 3D functionnality. Having a complete opensource driver next to the commercial one isn't something unheard of in the Win32 world : Audigy sound cards have both official drivers from Creative and the kX project).

----

* : Isn't completly unlikely. Their main audience, from which they earn most money are game players. Given the fact that almost all current games run on Windows XP + DX9, they'ld better spend more money in improving the WinXP support, to have a higher position in tests to sell more to gamers, rather than spend the same money on Vista, and thus risking to loose customer due to better Catalyst. I won't be surprised if, appart for their made-for-DX10 flagship products and business oriented cards, progress of Vista drivers are as slow as for linux, until games start to appear that target Vist DX10.

ch-ch-ch-chaaaanges... (4, Insightful)

TheSHAD0W (258774) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868462)

Considering Microsoft is still in the process of patching Vista, including a major patch issued just as Vista went out the door, can we really stick all the blame on Nvidia?

Re:ch-ch-ch-chaaaanges... (5, Funny)

Raynor (925006) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868532)

I think we are blaming NVidia's treatment of their customers, not the problems themselves.

Personally I just blame canada... i mean come on, they aren't even a real country anyways ;)

Re:ch-ch-ch-chaaaanges... (4, Insightful)

Vellmont (569020) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868538)


Considering Microsoft is still in the process of patching Vista, including a major patch issued just as Vista went out the door, can we really stick all the blame on Nvidia?


Did the patches affect the video driver layer? If they did, then maybe Microsoft should share some of the blame. If not, then the blame is squarely on nVidia. It's not like nVidia hasn't had plenty of time to develop drivers for Vista.

Re:ch-ch-ch-chaaaanges... (4, Insightful)

Matt Perry (793115) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868648)

Considering Microsoft is still in the process of patching Vista, including a major patch issued just as Vista went out the door, can we really stick all the blame on Nvidia?
That depends. Are all the other video drivers having problems too or is it just NVidea's drivers?

Re:ch-ch-ch-chaaaanges... (5, Informative)

Meatloaf Surprise (1017210) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868682)

I went to this page http://www.nvidia.com/object/7_series_techspecs.ht ml [nvidia.com] for my video card and it says:

Built for Microsoft® Windows Vista(TM)

* Third-generation GPU architecture built for Windows Vista
* Delivers best possible experience when running Windows Vista 3D graphical user interface
* New OS supported by renowned NVIDIA® Unified Driver Architecture (UDA) for maximum stability and reliability
* NVIDIA® PureVideo(TM) technology delivers high-quality VMR pipeline for best-in-class video for Windows Vista

Now, if I purchased this card to run on my new Vista machine, I would be pretty upset when it didn't work right. Wouldn't you?

Re:ch-ch-ch-chaaaanges... (4, Funny)

gardyloo (512791) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868762)

Now, if I purchased this card to run on my new Vista machine, I would be pretty upset when it didn't work right. Wouldn't you?

      I dunno. One of the points says "best possible experience". I guess it depends on what that means. If this were Windows Me, I'd expect shorting out motherboard contacts randomly with soaking-wet weasels might get better performance than putting in a carefully designed graphics board.

Re:ch-ch-ch-chaaaanges... (2, Interesting)

laffer1 (701823) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868908)

PureVideo is not supported in Vista x64 either. That is false advertising. I did upgrade to vista and can tell you that the nvidia drivers are terrible. As of Vista launch day, only the 8000 series had working opengl officially. You can actually install that driver and it will work with the 7000 series as well. I have a 7300 GS which was purchased in november. It should work with vista. I run windows for gaming and right now I can play more games in MidnightBSD which no one supports.

This was my second nvidia card and first in my primary desktop. I will not buy another one. AMD gets my money next time. Their drivers suck and they don't support any BSD, but at least they aren't rude.

Re:ch-ch-ch-chaaaanges... (1)

Danga (307709) | more than 7 years ago | (#17869114)

This was my second nvidia card and first in my primary desktop. I will not buy another one. AMD gets my money next time. Their drivers suck and they don't support any BSD, but at least they aren't rude.

I think you mean ATI? :-)

I will say that ATI's drivers do suck, I would say that 80% of the computers I have put together in the last 4-5 years with ATI cards were BITCHES to get working without problems like constantly crashing, not running at full speed, etc. 0% of the machines I put nVidia cards in failed to work flawlessly. These were all Windows machines I built for friends/family so I wanted to keep problems to a minimum and I will keep sticking with nVidia for just that reason. Sure, this move by them is shady, but I have no doubt they will have things ironed out very soon.

Re:ch-ch-ch-chaaaanges... (5, Funny)

tkrotchko (124118) | more than 7 years ago | (#17869060)

"* Third-generation GPU architecture built for Windows Vista "

Just because it was built for it doesn't mean it will.

I mean, Bruce Springsteen was born to run, but how often do you see him jogging around?

DRM at fault - Vista is defective by design (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17868484)

Aren't the engineers at NVIDIA hampered by the impractical DRM restrictions placed by Microsoft on users of Vista, specifically with respect to video output software-hardware interaction?

Nvidia should sue Microsoft for getting into bed with the MPAA, RIAA, and other MAFIAA.

Re:DRM at fault - Vista is defective by design (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17868540)

Right: If at first you don't succeed, blame Micrsoft.

Re:DRM at fault - Vista is defective by design (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17868604)

Why don't you think the MPAA and RIAA and the DRM restrictions Microsoft placed on all users of Vista matter?

Should we celebrate Microsoft for making its OS more difficult to use and code for than necessary?

Port Linux NVidia Drivers to Vista (5, Funny)

andy314159pi (787550) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868486)

Maybe someone at Microsoft should work on porting the Linux nvidia drivers to Vista. The work well on Linux, so maybe the drivers can be "reverse engineered" to work with Vista.

Linux support (4, Interesting)

Carnildo (712617) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868490)

It seems that for once, there's a major piece of computer hardware with better driver support for Linux than for Windows.

Re:Linux support (1)

kimvette (919543) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868700)

FWIW, I did try the public beta of Vista and the Nvidia drivers worked perfectly fine, both 32-bit and 64-bit.

Also, to be fair to M$ (and I hate admitting this) the media center works amazingly well. I wish MythTV worked so well.

Re:Linux support (1)

Ash-Fox (726320) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868820)

I wish MythTV worked so well.
That can be a problem with software that hasn't reached version one yet...

sue for what?!? (0)

cavtroop (859432) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868492)

the FA didnt have much info, but what the hell can you sue for? So the vendor of your choice doesnt support your OS of choice. TOUGH SH*T. Buy another product. Nvidia is under no obligation to supply drivers. They'd be DUMB not to, but come on, sue? Thats whats wrong with everyone today - entitlement. Pffsh. unless I have something wrong, like I said the FA hardly had any info at all, except for some general bitching about forum policies.

Re:sue for what?!? (2, Insightful)

Rugikiki (948563) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868514)

False advertising. Nvidia claimed that the cards were "Vista Ready."

Re:sue for what?!? (1)

alexhs (877055) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868652)

False advertising. Nvidia claimed that the cards were "Vista Ready."
<spin> The card is Vista Ready. Only not the drivers... </spin>

As in : If a video card is DX9 compatible, it is Vista Ready.

Re:sue for what?!? (4, Insightful)

geekoid (135745) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868558)

False advertising.
Nvidia claimed it would work, people spent time and money based on their promise.
Tort law is the ONLY avenue people have to defend themselves against the actions of a corporation.
It has nothing to do with entitlement.

Re:sue for what?!? (1)

cavtroop (859432) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868594)

Yeah, after digging through some links (a decent linked article would have been nice, that one at the inquirer was useless) would have spotted that. Nvidia will come out with drivers for Vista - it would be death not to. And they promised 'works with vista', they just didnt say when... :)

Re:sue for what?!? (0, Flamebait)

geekoid (135745) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868638)

Funny, but I don't think the courts would see it that way.

Also I would like to point out that these people tried talking to Nvidia, and had to turn to the courts.

Re:sue for what?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17869108)

Actually, it says "Windows Vista Ready (upgrade)" on the box of the latest cards.

Tort law is the ONLY avenue? (1)

glrotate (300695) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868882)

Intentional misrepresentation is certainly a viable cause of action, I would think breach of contract applies as well.

Re:sue for what?!? (1)

siwelwerd (869956) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868922)

Tort law is the ONLY avenue people have to defend themselves against the actions of a corporation.

Bollocks. Are you going to go out and buy something NVidia claims to be Vista ready now? I sure won't.

Re:sue for what?!? (1)

mobby_6kl (668092) | more than 7 years ago | (#17869020)

Ah, the evil corporation strikes again!

I'm dual booting with Vista for about a month now, and while the drivers I tried (don't remember the version, not the current version) aren't nearly as fast or fully featured as the 2000/xp ones, I don't see it as a problem worth suing over. The drivers are constantly improving, and just recently (wasn't it on the day of Vista launch?) the 100.54 drivers were released with SLI support and a lot of the problems appearantly fixed.

Now, this doesn't excuse NVIDIA from being dicks on their forums, but if it's ok for Apple to do, it must be ok for NVIDIA too.

Re:sue for what?!? (4, Insightful)

Joe U (443617) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868596)

I bought a nVidia card yesterday (after the Vista launch) to upgrade my aging 9800. There's a huge fucking sticker on the box saying 'Windows Vista Ready', so, I expect it to work with Vista. (It does, but I swear my ATi 9800 ran Aero slightly faster).

Re:sue for what?!? (1)

mrbcs (737902) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868962)

I just used the Windows stock Nvidia drivers for a 32 bit install on an AMD 2400+ with an FX5200.

Works fine, (even the aero) though vista didn't have drivers for my sound or nic. I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. Looks real purdy.. but I'm hooped when it comes to navigating the menus. This looks like the largest learning curve yet with a Microsoft product. I work for an ISP so we'll have to get some Vista machines for tech support.. but I don't like that learning curve already. Looks like XP and win2k for the duration for me.

OT: Learning curve (1)

Joe U (443617) | more than 7 years ago | (#17869126)

Actually, the learning curve isn't as bad as you think, takes about a week of constant use and you don't want to go back. I'm even using the new WindowsKey-Tab thing more. Program search is pretty cool as well.

Re:sue for what?!? (1)

hxnwix (652290) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868620)

False advertisement. Nvidia advertises that their stuff works on vista. It doesn't.

False advertisement is against the law. One is often liable for the economic harm inflicted by his illegal actions. IE, Nvidia may owe a lot of money.

"TOUGH [COOKIE]," indeed.

Re:sue for what?!? (1)

Verity_Crux (523278) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868726)

All I know is that my NVidia board with Media Player used to play DVDs. These days it says I'm not licensed to use that media with my graphics card. I say we sue them for free DVD decoders while we're at it. And maybe we can sue whoever made everyone start licensing their DVD decoders and charging $ for them.

And maybe someday after we put NVidia out of business for hiring marketers and management that don't actually communicate with their engineers, ATI will have drivers that actually work half as well as the NVidia beta drivers. I've always liked NVidia's driver design better than ATI. NVidia has bugs with multiple screens, but ATI has bugs with basic things like refresh rate. Of course that was three years ago I did a strong comparison between the two. Has ATI made any good strides in drivers over the past three years? (During which time it appears the NVida has been going down hill?)

Re:sue for what?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17868774)

the FA didnt have much info, but what the hell can you sue for? So the vendor of your choice doesnt support your OS of choice. TOUGH SH*T. Buy another product. Nvidia is under no obligation to supply drivers.

Well, if nvidia has been advertising vista compatibility for months, then you would have a claim for false advertising.

Re:sue for what?!? (1)

Mex (191941) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868776)

I completely agree. I used to think Nvidia was the pinnacle of PC Gaming, but turns out they just had great marketing.

I switched to ATI and I haven't had any problems at all with my card. I've been running a Radeon 9800 for TWO YEARS now, and I've still been able to play all of the new games I wanted to.

Yes, they have Linux drivers too, although I have only gamed on Windows. Ubuntu booted fine and gave me no problems with my card, if that counts.

No NForce2 drivers (5, Informative)

Plug (14127) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868554)

While this class action seems to be about high-end graphics cards, which I have ever expectation that NVIDIA are working hard on drivers for, it's worth pointing out that they don't intend to support the NForce/2/3 motherboards with Windows Vista drivers. [theinquirer.net]

Just upgraded a machine, network & sound works, but when I scroll in Firefox, I get choppy audio playback in Winamp; in the process of trying to figure out if it's Winamp at fault or the audio driver.

Still works... sort of (1)

Xocet_00 (635069) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868588)

It should be noted that while there is no official support, the low-level stuff on NForce2 based boards still works. The Asus A7N8X-X I have in my living room PC (cobbled together from old parts) is still running the drives in UDMA, the USB ports all work, etc. However I do have my sound and network disabled, and handled by other devices I had lying around.

The point is that you DO have to make some sacrifices, but it's not like you need a new Socket A board or something.

Re:No NForce2 drivers (3, Interesting)

Vellmont (569020) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868674)


Just upgraded a machine, network & sound works, but when I scroll in Firefox, I get choppy audio playback in Winamp; in the process of trying to figure out if it's Winamp at fault or the audio driver.

Does your AGP bus run under the PCI to PCI bridge like my Nforce 1 does? If so that could easily be the problem. Nvidia decided to not write drivers for the AGP bus. To check look under Device manager, system devices and look for PCI Standard PCI to PCI Bridge.

I'm not terribly happy with Nvidia, but of course I don't have any basis to sue them either.

Re:No NForce2 drivers (1)

Plug (14127) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868928)

Yep, it does. I take it that means there's no separate transport for the AGP, so the PCI bus gets held up when you're doing anything graphically intense?

(Seems a visualisation in WMP triggered the fault before too - and its happened again as I write this sentence - everything just slows down...)

Re:No NForce2 drivers (2, Informative)

r_naked (150044) | more than 7 years ago | (#17869120)

I have an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe and had all kinds of audio problems with the stock Vista nForce 2 audio driver till I grabbed the Vista driver from Realtek's site [realtek.com.tw].

While not ideal (no Dolby Digital encoding), it did solve all my stuttering problems that the stock Vista driver had.

Also, if you need them, Silicon Image has Vista drivers for the Sil3112 SATA chip. I know most boards from that era that used the nForce 2 chipset also used the Sil3112.

Vista not important (-1, Offtopic)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868578)

I'm just waiting for three things:

- Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard)
- Updated Mac mini (the only Mac not upgraded to the Core 2 Duo, what gives?)
- iLife '07

Since Leopard and iLife '07 are worth at least 1/3 of the price of the Mac mini, it would make no sense not to update the computer at the same time (still using a G4/1.42GHz, which is fine for everything but quite slow with H.264 encoding).

Re:Vista not important (1)

Brian Gordon (987471) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868662)

Minis are a cooling nightmare. How are you going to play games?! Oh wait..

Re:Vista not important (2, Insightful)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868692)

I don't have any cooling problems with my Mac mini. As for games, I have a Nintendo DS and a Wii, where programmers can max out the hardware because everyone has the same system specs.

Re:Vista not important (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17868806)

As for games, I have a Nintendo DS and a Wii
We're not console gamers.

Go away -- We're not interested in your non-solution.

-10 Way off-topic (1)

SaDan (81097) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868754)

Go spank your monkey in front of your Mac, and post about it in a Mac forum.

How offtopic can you get? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17868848)

By your logic I can post a similar post in every single conversation.

PS3 thread? Not important, I'm waiting for ____ on the Wii
Linux thread? Not important, I use a Mac.
BMW thread? Who cares, I drive a Porche.
Space thread? Who cares, I am not an astronaut.

etc. etc. etc.

You've already been modded down, of course. Just thought I'd let you know how worthless your post was, and why it should stay that way. Just out of curiosity, what was the point of you posting it?

Can you blame them? (1)

epp_b (944299) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868608)

drm, rgb, hdcp, hdmi, cgms-a, css, aacs, dvi, hdcp, dtv, hdtv, dcps, cppm, bd+, rpc, cprm, dtcp, cpsa, cptwg...

I can't keep up either.

Can you really blame them now that Microsoft is in some sweet lovin' with Hollywood?

(Arggh! Stupid /. lameness filter, I had to lowercase all of the cool acronyms, thereby lessening the impact of the reply ...now that's lame!)

Re:Can you blame them? (5, Insightful)

TheAwfulTruth (325623) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868656)

This has nothing to do with that.

They had stable vista drivers out for their older cards for somettime. This is specifically to do with a brand new card that has such a different archetecture that they had to redo the driver from the ground up and seriously underestimated the time it would take.

Marketing went ahead and sold the hardware as "The first vista ready video card" (DX 10 whee), engineering was not ready. It really is borderline plausible that they could be gulty of false advertising.

ok this seems bad enough but... (4, Funny)

whathappenedtomonday (581634) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868618)

one of the NVidia forums moderator's suggestions that there's no reason to upgrade to Vista (link [tgdaily.com])


At least they got this one right. That's what you get for upgrading: huge hole in your wallet, crappy OS and nvidia forum mods poking fun at you...

No Need To Sue (4, Insightful)

TheFlyingGoat (161967) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868650)

While I understand why these people are upset, why do people always feel the need to sue? It's in Nvidia's best interest to keep their customers happy, and as such will probably be releasing drivers that DO work very soon. If they don't, these customers will just go to one of their competitors the next time they're in the market for a high end video card.

Let your money do the talking and stop helping lawyers make money on stuff like this.

Re:No Need To Sue (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17868738)

At what point should a company be punished, then?

Say Company A makes AmazingMobile and sells it at a reasonable cost. The next day all these buyers' cars break down and are deemed unrepairable as of yet. Hmmm...an entire product line doesn't work. I think this deserves a bit more than "I want my money back."

Re:No Need To Sue (1)

TheFlyingGoat (161967) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868784)

Well, once the consumer has their money back they can spend it elsewhere. If a LOT of consumers did this it would hurt the company's current sales. Down the line when all those customers are buying a new car, they'd buy their car from Company B, hurting Company A's future sales. Plus the negative press it would create would lead to non-customers making a point of not buying Company A's product in the future as well. The point is that Company A would lose A LOT of money by not putting out a good product, which car companies and tech companies cannot afford to do these days due to the high level of competition. They're getting punished big time when stuff like this happens.

Re:No Need To Sue (3, Insightful)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 7 years ago | (#17869048)

They can't GET their money back. The box is open, and the retailer won't give the money back for a 'working' product. nVidia won't admit the product does not work. They actively deny any problems and delete any attempt to talk about it off their servers.

These customers have done all they should have to. nVidia is clearly screwing their customers on this one.

I have not owned a non-nVidia video card for years. I have never owned an ATI. Why? Because nVidia's drivers were SO much better, even though their hardware was inferior. The opposite is now true, if you use Vista. (I don't yet... Doubt I will for quite a long time.) ATI's drivers have gotten MUCH better in the past 5 years, and their hardware is still top notch. nVidia has now proven that they no longer know how to write stable drivers, and their hardware is inferior.

I am NOT looking forward to my next card being an ATI, but unless nVidia gets really smart, really quick, that's what's going to happen. And I'm planning to purchase all new hardware pretty soon, too. -sigh-

(I worked for PC Repair shops for years, so I have some experience with the quality of each manufacturers' past products.)

Re:No Need To Sue (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17868822)

because they are fucken sue happy yanks...
thats why

Re:No Need To Sue (1)

dirk (87083) | more than 7 years ago | (#17869070)

While in general I agree, they are suing because of the handling of the issue more than the issue itself. It's not like Nvidia has said "yes there are problems and we are working on them." They are denying problems and deleting posts that say there is a problem. In other words, there is no indication that Nvidia is doing anything at all besides sticking their heads in the sand. If Nvidia wanted to keep their customers happy, they would acknowledge the problem and say they are working on getting it corrected instead of trying to hide the fact that a problem exists.

This has got to be a first... (2)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868658)

I'm trying to think of any other product where you can buy it at time X, it suits your purpose and you're happy, then at time X+1 something changes, it no longer suits your purpose and that is somehow the manufacturer's fault. Honestly, if you bought your card to use with XP and it now doesn't work with Vista, don't you solely have the option of not using Vista? Or buying a new card? And if Nvidia are yet to sell any new cards that work with Vista, aint you just shit out of luck?

Now, of course, if Nvidia are claiming that their cards work with Vista and you're buying the card solely for use with Vista, and it doesn't work, take your card back for a full refund and go without.

This has got to be a first...for "/." (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17868814)

"I'm trying to think of any other product where you can buy it at time X, it suits your purpose and you're happy, then at time X+1 something changes, it no longer suits your purpose and that is somehow the manufacturer's fault."

Oh you must have missed the slashdot bitch threads were someone complains every time the content creators comes out with a new technology. e.g. tapes, CD, DVD, Blu-ray, etc, and they're "forced" to buy it. Bonus points if it's a thread about "I mistreated my old media, and you owe me some new ones". Double bonus if you can squeeze in a "I'm inpatient and bought the original edition, and now they came out with the deluxe".

Re:This has got to be a first... (3, Informative)

IvanTheNotSoBad (977004) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868858)

...and you're buying the card solely for use with Vista, and it doesn't work, take your card back for a full refund and go without.


The problem I have with that in particular is that I bought an 8800 GTX months before Vista came out. I especifically bought it because it claimed that it was Vista Ready. Well, it's not, and my options are quite limited. I can't return it, and I don't really want to purchase another card after I already spent over $600 for this one. In my case, I can't "let my wallet do the talking."

Re:This has got to be a first... (1)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 7 years ago | (#17869040)

Why can't you return it?

If you bought it for use with Vista because they advertised that it worked with Vista then returning it is exactly what you should be doing. And if people actually did this, instead of just whining, Nvidia would *much* more quickly get the picture. Take your card back to whoever you bought it from and get a refund.

nvidia censorship - related to Apple? (and IP) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17868670)

Look familiar? This story about Apple deleting posts about bugs in nvida drivers [slashdot.org]. Now looks more obvious that it was nvidia behind that; from today's article it's clear that they're bug-shy, and maybe for overzealous IP reasons, as this post suggested [slashdot.org].

Re:nvidia censorship - related to Apple? (and IP) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17868750)

Now looks more obvious that it was nvidia behind that; from today's article it's clear that they're bug-shy, and maybe for overzealous IP reasons
No, that was Apple. nVidia doesn't have moderators on Apple's boards.

Re:nvidia censorship - related to Apple? (and IP) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17868792)

You didn't actually read the comment did you? The allegation I linked to was that nvidia asked Apple to cover up evidence of certain bugs, and slammed on an "OMG intellectual property!" defence.

Site down -- was this ever serious? (2, Informative)

whoever57 (658626) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868672)

The site is now down. Was this ever a serious threat to start a lawsuit?

NVidia are dying (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17868708)

No open source drivers, no working Vista drivers, ATI bought by AMD and Intel ramping up development of their own high-end graphics chips. Nvidia are left powerless, trying to anti-alias the writing on the wall and choking on their oh-so-fucking-precious "IP". Slashdot confirms, NVidia are dying.

A Solution For Vista/Nvidia users!!! (1, Funny)

pandrijeczko (588093) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868720)

At the Bash prompt, just type "emerge nvidia-drivers" and reboot.

Oh wait...

Re:A Solution For Vista/Nvidia users!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17868842)

no need to reboot, just Crtl+Alt+Backspace, modprobe -r nvidia, startx

and presto!

hmm they don't seem very organised.... (1)

snero3 (610114) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868772)

Or the poster is one of the group trying to raise awareness and garner support for their "class action suit." The reason I say this is that their own site [nvidiaclassaction.org] is not even finished and yet it makes the front page of /. and what better place to get anti MS troops than good old /.?

NVIDIA Linux (0, Redundant)

nukem996 (624036) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868804)

NVIDIA Linux drivers work great. I guess its true that Linux now has more drivers available then Vista.

NVIDIA's drivers seems to be degrading... (1)

antdude (79039) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868838)

Many people and I noticed the newer drivers after 8x.xx series are worse and buggier (can't use the older drivers with my EVGA GeForce 7950 GT KO card). First, they made that new control panel like ATI/AMD did. Everyone seems to hate it. I also hated it. Who knows when the old control panel will be gone since ATI/AMD removed its old one after a few versions.

Secondly with TV out, the newer drivers seem to have problems with full screen overlays. Also, NVIDIA drop TV out support in their 8800 cards! I am not the only one either since many owners [nvidia.com] (long thread) have this problem.

It looks like NVIDIA is getting sloppy in its software area now. I had respect more than ATI, but it is getting smaller and there are no other video card companies to go. :( Maybe Intel can be a third competitor, but they need to do well with the gaming area. Come on, NVIDIA. Get your stuff together!

Microsoft doesn't want them to have drivers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17868856)

Vista is all about protecting DRM. Microsoft probably doesn't want cards that are capable of displaying high resolution content unless those cards are totally locked down. That means, for instance, that signal traces, which might be tapped to circumvent DRM protection, have to be buried and not on the top or bottom layer. Microsoft has no intention of supporting high end hardware that isn't DRM enabled.

What this means seems to be that gamers will have to abandon their investment in hardware and games (which don't work on Vista either) or the game companies have to port their games to Linux. In any event, this seems like a bad time ahead for gamers.

Software & money (1)

heroine (1220) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868918)

For every 10 users who feel neglected by a free software producer, there's 1 who wants to be compensated. nVidia doesn't charge money for their drivers. It was once ludicrous to sue over something you didn't have to pay for. Now people are suing over free stuff. It's now OK because although the software didn't cost money, it didn't have source code and was in support of a piece of hardware which cost money. The envelope of what is considered a fair lawsuit has expanded one more step.

Combined with human greed and the desire for publicity, the expansion of software lawsuits is inevitable. First free software without sourcecode in support of hardware is fair game, then free software without sourcecode is fair game, then free software with sourcecode is fair game.

Re:Software & money (1)

pandrijeczko (588093) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868974)

nVidia doesn't charge money for their drivers.

And what use is a 3D graphics card *WITHOUT* drivers??? One would assume that part of the cost of the card covers driver development for a certain amount of time anyhow...

So when... (0, Redundant)

bky1701 (979071) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868930)

do the lawsuits start against every hardware maker in the world for not supporting every operating system? Unless they were guaranteeing it worked with Vista, I don't see how you can sue them for it not working.

How's this for paranoia? (4, Funny)

pandrijeczko (588093) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868950)

Let's all go down to our local computer stores tomorrow, stand near the Microsoft Vista display and snigger quietly to ourselves whenever a Joe Average picks up a Vista box?

Re:How's this for paranoia? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17869106)

I do that anyways. What are you getting at?

Stop your wining and open your eyes! (3, Insightful)

AcidPhish (785961) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868956)

Windows Vista is an absolute disaster! From an engineer's point of view, the system is not built for security and stability, its just patched up with holes left for the recording industries. If a virus was to take advantage of these holes, then I doubt anything could stop it. Combined with all the out-of-the-box DRM and restrictions, the system is a lot more complicated for no apparent reason. For the NVIDIA drivers to work properly in Vista, there is a LOT of work and possible debugging due to Vista's chaos. Don't blame NVIDIA for this, its Microsoft's fault for the whole DRM fiasco. Now NVIDIA and ATI have to comply. ATI already told the masses that Microsoft's idea is crap and customers would be paying for this big bucks. Microsoft are no longer the leader/monopolist they once were. If you have an issue, don't buy Vista (like most of us), and get REAL high performance, or switch to an even better OS. The choice is there, suing and wining gets you nowhere.

I am not sure whether to be amused or disappointed (3, Insightful)

Aryeh Goretsky (129230) | more than 7 years ago | (#17868968)

Hello,

As an American, I have become somewhat desensitized to the various class action suits which seem to have become water and fodder for the legal industry, but this strikes me as being just sad.

Today is February 2, 2007 and Microsoft publicly released the consumer-oriented versions of Microsoft Windows Vista (the Home and Ultimate Editions) on January 30th, just three days ago. I participated in the testing of Windows Vista and installed the RTW version (Build 6000) on my primary desktop and laptop computers when it became available in November of last year. During testing, nVidia was good--not stellar, but not bad--about providing device drivers, and any problems I experienced during my testing with nVidia 6800GT and 7900GT-chipset based cards generally disappeared as new builds of the operating system and device drivers became available.

Right now, there is a huge installed base of nVidia GPUs out there (5200 and up are officially supported according to this [nvidia.com]) which people are using with Windows Vista and I am sure the percentage of those users with 8800-series GPUs out there hovers around a single percentage point or two.

Given that Microsoft Windows Vista is a brand new operating system in many respects, such as introducing a completely new video device driver model, and that, likewise, the 8800 series represents nVidia's own most complex product to date and so far has only a small market penetration, why is anyone alarmed (or even surprised) that WHQL-certified device drivers are not available yet which take advantage of all its features?

Also, while I would imagine that nVidia has a large staff of developers writing device drivers for their various bits and blogs of silicon, I would imagine the size of that staff is finite and that nVidia has to prioritize their work based on hard business decisions, such as the number of customers using a particular product with a particular operating system. Was it wrong of nVidia to focus their driver development efforts on satisfying the needs of the largest percentage of their installed base? Or should they have focused their efforts on their newest customers and satisfy the needs of thousands or tens of thousands instead of tens of millions?

What I do know is that, generally-speaking, nVidia has historically done a good job of providing decent support for their products and nothing I have seen or read in TFA has changed my opinion. Frankly, the number of nVidia owners who have 8800-series GPUs is a small majority. While these early adopters have paid a premium for their latest-and-greatest video cards and do deserve to be treated with respect by nVidia, I suspect that right now nVidia's engineers are working very hard on device drivers with support all the new features of their video cards and will probably have them available in a few days or a week or two.

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky

The bugs are due to the new Vista DRM "features" (4, Insightful)

seeks2know (702160) | more than 7 years ago | (#17869028)

Let's see...

Why would nvidia's drivers work with Windows 95/98/ME/NT/2000/XP, Linux (32 and 64 bit), Solaris and FreeBSD - but not with Vista?

Do you think that nvidia forgot how to code video drivers? No, that doesn't seem logical.

Well what is different between Vista and all of the others?

How about all the stupid Vista DRM features? You know, the ones that ATI was bitching about when they said (http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_ cost.html):

An ATI product manager responsible for producing the actual hardware says:

        "These costs are passed on to the consumer"

        "This cost is passed on to all consumers"

        "This cost is passed on to purchasers of multimedia PC's"

        "Costs are passed on to consumers"

        "Costs are passed on to consumers, especially early adopters"

I'm sure that the lion's share of these costs are software related. More software cost means more code. More code means more opportunity for unexpected features (aka "bugs").

Don't blame nvidia. Blame Microsoft.

What about ATI? (1)

macroexp (1002893) | more than 7 years ago | (#17869064)

I bought an ATI Radeon X1300, which said on the box "Vista ready". In fact, I bought it the day I installed Vista (sometime mid-December) because I knew the onboard video would be inadequate to get the "full Vista experience."

The driver download page has *just* lost the disclaimer (I can't remember the exact words, something like "don't use this on any system expected to provide any sort of productivity at all"). I am downloading the new drivers right now, but every release up to this one has had pretty major issues - not what I'd call stable.

I place the blame on Microsoft for their "shoved out the door" release rather than the hardware manufacturers.

lame title (1)

luckymutt (996573) | more than 7 years ago | (#17869066)

Well they're not really facing a class action lawsuit are they? Some gamer gets upset and starts a web site because nVidia banned him from their forums. How is that facing a lawsuit? I can cetainly understand wanting to look into a lawsuit, since they have been promoting their cards as "Vista Ready" for some time now. Hell, that sticker is one of the reasons I bought my card when I did, rather than putting it off till later. I haven't moved to Vista, and prolly won't for a while, but I was thinking I would before the next time I upgrade my box. Bah...maybe I will just wait it out. btw, is XP 64bit still gonna be available? or is that now a can't buy thing?

Slashdotted, but got text... (2, Informative)

Creepy Crawler (680178) | more than 7 years ago | (#17869094)

Text of website, as seen through .nyud.net:8090

_______

Ok...I've put the site up so that I don't get any annoying messages from the likes of Chris_S stating "We don't use NVidia's forums to collect legal information."

This site is intended to:

        * Post your screen shots / box covers, etc...where Vista compatibility is stated outright or implied.
        * Collect contact information about the class (done via your user account - email addresses are fine)

The issue is currently under review by one legal firm and a response is expected within three business days. I will attempt to work with two additional firms if necessary to have the case reviewed and will post findings here. In the event it is declined across the board, the site will be disabled.

Please be very careful about what you post - this isn't a place to rant - we've done that enough. This is a place to provide useful, constructive information conducive to supporting a legal action. While the content is not strictly moderated, spot reviews will be conducted at random and any posts contrary to this will be deleted - period. If the posts begin getting out of control, again, the site will be shut down.

  Any repeated posts will be considered spam and the user will be a.) deleted from the site, b.) banned by IP address/block or c.) have their network operator contacted.

We've all come here for a reason - let's be constructive in our pursuit of this.

Admin's Note - Due to some of the posts being made, registration is being required in order to view the forums. I've already followed up with the ISPs corresponding to several of the abusive posts to have them blocked on the ISP side.
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