Beta

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Vista - iPod Killer?

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the stranger-and-stranger dept.

Software 557

JMB wrote us with a dire warning, as reported by the San Jose Mercury News. Apple is cautioning its Windows-using iTunes customers to steer clear of Vista until the next iTunes update. The reason for this is a bit puzzling. Apparently, if you try to 'safely remove' your iPod from a Vista-installed PC, there's a chance you may corrupt the little music player. They also claim that songs may not play, and contacts may not sync with the device. Apple went so far as to release a detailed support document on the subject, which assures users that a new Vista-compatible version of the software will be available in a few weeks. Is this just some very creative FUD? If it is not who do you think is 'at fault' here, Microsoft or Apple?

cancel ×

557 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

It's apples fault (5, Funny)

wardk (3037) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875114)

for not being able to predict what parts Microsoft would focus on breaking

Tagged appleduh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17875242)

What could MS have possibly done between RC2 and release to break the iPod?

Apple just didn't do enough testing. Good job finding the bugs, guinea pigs!

Re:It's apples fault (-1, Flamebait)

governorx (524152) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875344)

No its obviously the iPod-Vista owner's fault [/sarcasm]. They brought it on themselves assuming that:

1) Microsoft writes flawless software. Never have to worry about exploits - ever.
2) Microsoft wants to support competitor's hardware. Zune is not MSiPod!
3) Vista wont try to enforce DRM (which is the whole reason they developed Vista anyway.) Vista degrades media playback by destroying playback hardware - the ULTIMATE DRM
4) Vista is an upgrade. duh..

I could point form a few more reasons, but I don't see how anyone could make the intelligent decision to upgrade to Vista. A clean install of Vista uses 544meg ram without any applications running - completely ridiculous IMHO.

Re:It's apples fault (5, Informative)

riscthis (597073) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875554)

A clean install of Vista uses 544meg ram without any applications running - completely ridiculous IMHO.
Some of that may be for caches which would be released if an application requested more RAM. The OS might as well make use of it to reduce latency of other tasks whilst nothing else wants the RAM.

Re:It's apples fault (5, Insightful)

malfunct (120790) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875682)

Its worse than that. There has been a fairly stable api in vista for the last 6 months and even before that there were little changes for the last year. Apple just decided not to fix thier software for whatever reason and now they are trying to make Vista look bad instead of taking the blame for being slow to support windows users.

Who to blame? (4, Insightful)

falsified (638041) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875120)

Hell, I don't know. How are we supposed to know that? And more to the point, does anyone out there ever press that "safely remove hardware" thing anyway? Bunch of dorks.

Re:Who to blame? (1)

LiquidCoooled (634315) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875158)

I never used to either.
Then one day my massive 256mb memory stick became corrupt because it hadn't finished copying.

I now do it with every storage type device I use and I haven't had a problem since.

Re:Who to blame? (5, Informative)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875268)

Win2K had write-caching (lazy writes) on by default, consequently you needed to use the "Safely Remove" option to flush any open file buffers to disk. XP has write-caching OFF by default, so it isn't quite so necessary: just make sure your access LED stops flickering before you yank your stick out.

Re:Who to blame? (3, Informative)

AvitarX (172628) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875438)

I don't think that's true.

It has caching off by default for devices that show up in the removable media section (flash-drives) but on for things that show up in the Hard Disk Drives section (USB Hard-drives).

I have had stuff "corrupt" on a few occasions, but chkdisk fixed it every time.

Re:Who to blame? (1)

kailoran (887304) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875290)

I once pulled a USB stick out of the (front) port and my integrated network card stopped working. I shit you not. It was dead even after a reboot, but a hard power-off for a few second made it work again. No idea how that sort of thing is even possible.

Ethernet cards stay on... (4, Informative)

Xenographic (557057) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875446)

In my experience, you need to completely remove power in order to properly reset an Ethernet card. If you look at the back of the machine after you shut them down, you'll see the lights are still flashing and that the card still has power.

In a semi-related note, presumably due the the firmware on the buggers, I've had problems where booting to a boot CD broke the Ethernet card, too (because the boot CD's drivers downloaded newer firmware, I think). Then when I booted back into the original OS, the card wouldn't work until I updated the machine's Windows drivers. This was with a Broadcom 10/100 integrated Ethernet card, BTW.

Re:Who to blame? (1)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875462)

That sounds like a electrical problem not a software one.

Re:Who to blame? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17875322)

You mean, do I ever ensure the block cache has been flushed back to the device and the filesystem marked clean before I yank the device out of the machine? Er, yeah. If I didn't want to actually write the data to the thing in the first place I wouldn't have plugged it in.

Re:Who to blame? (1)

FiloEleven (602040) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875504)

If I didn't want to actually write the data to the thing in the first place I wouldn't have plugged it in.

Exactly...so when the progress bar for copying data to the drive disappears, it should mean that the device is ready to be safely removed. Any other behavior is sneaky and unhelpful. If I plug something in and it "just works," it is reasonable to assume that I should be able to unplug it just as easily. Having a little taskbar button that you must right-click, select "safeley remove hardware," run through two or three dialogs, and then pull the drive out is incredibly counterintuitive.

Re:Who to blame? (4, Informative)

Technician (215283) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875364)

and customers could corrupt their iPod unless they eject it from Windows using iTunes.

It's like ejecting a floppy on a Mac or *NIX except there is another layer of software that has to properly write to the device to close it. Windows has no idea that iTunes has not finished and using Windows to eject hardware will close the device without all the updates from iTunes. I suprised that is any diffrent from XP or 2K.

does anyone out there ever press that "safely remove hardware" thing anyway?

You may get by most of the time if you don't have any applications such as a file browser open and was writing files that might be cached and not written. For example having a bunch of MP3's on a flash drive and unplugging it is not a problem most of the time. If you were writing new files and updating some files, such as a spreadsheet, may corrupt it if you don't close the application and use the eject option. Cached data might not all get written.

I don't understand why this is just an issue with iTunes and Vista. Maybe iTunes hooks into Safely Remove Hardware, and closes out writes before letting Windows confirm it's safe to remove the device. This is probably what's broken in Vista.

Re:Who to blame? (1, Informative)

Albanach (527650) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875450)

Seriously though, Apple have full control over the ipod hardware and software. They really should have designed the iPod such that if, for whatever reason, the USB cable is unplugged while writing to disk, the operation is reverted and the iPod keeps working.

It's either laziness or, more likely, cost cutting that makes the iPod is so fragile. After all, Apple did design the new laptops with magnetic clips for the power cable - presumably because they get tripped over, knocked out etc.

Re:Who to blame? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17875688)

Bought my wife an iPod last December. Five hours and a crash of iTunes during a song upload on a (spyware and virus free) XP system later the crashPod was stuck in an endless reboot cycle ... no way to turn it off, no way to even get into diagnostics ... got it exchanged but no way am I paying the Apple tax on my next laptop. I can get shoddy engineering for cheaper in the MS camp ...

Re:Who to blame? (1)

vally_manea (911530) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875664)

I think the strategy has changed, at least in XP/2003/Vista, all the removable USB devices now are set by default to Optimize for Fast Removal.
And I don't know if you noticed but even if you have a long forgotten directory handle for the device it will not allow you to "Safely Remove" so it's quite improbable for Windows to mess things up when using Safely...

Re:Who to blame? (1)

Emetophobe (878584) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875370)

And more to the point, does anyone out there ever press that "safely remove hardware" thing anyway?
I do on any removable usb device. You can cause data corruption if you remove the device during a read/write. I didn't used to bother, but then one day my ipod got corrupted...

Re:Who to blame? (4, Insightful)

BeerCat (685972) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875522)

Maybe, just maybe, it's a bit of both - MS would love to kill the iPod, while Apple would love to undermine Vista enough for people to consider switching (and let them use their existing XP under Boot Camp).

So, I think we are seeing a bit of brinksmanship from both sides - the one who admits first that their product is the one at fault loses mindshare.

Re:Who to blame? (1)

limecat4eva (1055464) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875588)

Word is Apple's cooking up a solution for that:
AppleInsider | Apple working on hot unpluggable iPods [appleinsider.com]

The surprising thing to me is that it took so long for this to happen. What's the use of plug-and-play devices if you still have to manually dismount them before you go?

Re:Who to blame? (1)

Tim C (15259) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875590)

does anyone out there ever press that "safely remove hardware" thing anyway?

Yeah, I do. I prefer Windows to finish writing to the device before I yank it out of the socket.

Interesting... (4, Funny)

alshithead (981606) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875124)

At least they must have some clue about fixes for the issues. It looks like they have a pretty good idea of where Vista breaks iTunes

Now, let me climb into my tinfoil bunker...

The evil that is Microsoft has intentionally released Vista just to break iTunes and promote their own music player!

Re:Interesting... (5, Funny)

Kemeno (984780) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875198)

...except Microsoft's own music player doesn't work with Vista either.

Re:Interesting... (3, Informative)

Shippy (123643) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875638)

Uh, yes it does: From http://www.zune.net/en-us/support/howto/start/oper atingsystems.htm: [zune.net]

Zune(TM) software is compatible with the following operating systems:
  • Windows® XP Home, Professional, and Tablet PC Edition Service Pack 2
  • Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 Update Rollup 2
  • Windows Vista
You must be referring to when Vista was still in Beta. It was not supported at that time and likely for good reasons.

Re:Interesting... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17875226)

Yeah, but the Zune doesn't work with Vista either. Or didn't.

Maybe the GUI sucks so many CPU cycles there's not enough left over to play music.

Why is it anyone's fault? (0)

ferret (4281) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875126)

Everytime there's an OS upgrade your peripherals often don't work until the drivers etc are upgraded as well. What's so damn sinister about that?!

Because things should work. iTunes = Vista killer. (0, Troll)

twitter (104583) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875668)

Everytime there's an OS upgrade your peripherals often don't work until the drivers etc are upgraded as well. What's so damn sinister about that?!

It's amazing, but you can "upgrade" a kernel without breaking the drivers and device support. OSS/ALSA compatiblity is a case in point. The obsolescence of hardware in the M$ world is completely artificial and is one of the biggest betrayals of non free software.

In any case, this is detrimental to M$ regardless of who's fault it is. If M$ did it on purpose, they are crazy. iPod users wouldn't use Zune if M$ gave them away, so iTunes damage will guide millions of wealthy and influential buyers away from M$ right when they need such "enthusiast" to say nice things about Vista.

Considering their own (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17875134)

Zune software doesn't work on Vista, I suppose the one to blame here is quite obvious.

Re:Considering their own (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17875228)

Apple?

Re:Considering their own (1)

omicronish (750174) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875254)

Zune software doesn't work on Vista, I suppose the one to blame here is quite obvious.

It does. They released an update [betanews.com] supporting Vista back in December 2006.

Move along, nothing to see (2, Insightful)

Indiana Joe (715695) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875138)

Windows gets an update, and some stuff breaks. It happens. Kudos to Apple for publishing a workaround.

Re:Move along, nothing to see (5, Funny)

oddaddresstrap (702574) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875396)

Aren't workarounds a violation of the Vista EULA?

Suits suits suits. (4, Interesting)

GodInHell (258915) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875142)

Suits are to blame either way.. for thinking that their job was to tie a software app to one OS or the other.

If it turns out that MS is keeping true to form from past abuses - using its control over the OS to submerge and destroy the oposition (see netscape) then Apple should probably start digging for evidence to back a differnet kind of suit right now. This kind of deliberate destruction of property that just happens to be manufactured by the opposition company (OS v Os, and now MP3 player v. MP3 player) is text-book anti-trust case material.

-GiH

oh no (3, Funny)

macadamia_harold (947445) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875148)

Apparently, if you try to 'safely remove' your iPod from a Vista-installed PC, there's a chance you may corrupt the little music player.

I shudder to think what would happen if you unsafely remove it. Especially from a Sony laptop.

Re:oh no (5, Funny)

kfg (145172) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875620)

I shudder to think what would happen if you unsafely remove it. Especially from a Sony laptop.

You've got 10 seconds to throw it after you pull the pin.

KFG

Apple is spreading FUD (0, Flamebait)

HP-UX'er (211124) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875150)

iTunes works fine on Vista. I've been beta testing Vista since build 5270, and each time I reloaded, iTunes on Vista worked fine for me, and my iPod. Thats my experience, yours may vary ...

Re:Apple is spreading FUD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17875224)

Thats my experience, yours may vary ...
Wow, you lost a lot of confidence after writing the title. Given how unsure you are as to whether it will work for anyone else, shouldn't you have said "Apple may or may not be spreading FUD, I really don't know"?

Re:Apple is spreading FUD (1)

ZachPruckowski (918562) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875292)

Yeah, but if it malfunctions only 1% of the time, that's tens of thousands of pissed-off users.

Re:Apple is spreading FUD (2, Insightful)

Tony Hoyle (11698) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875454)

RTM of Vista has been available to developers since November. Apple would only hurt themselves by saying this now, since they'd be saying they sat on their arses and refused to fix it for 2 months.

Re:Apple is spreading FUD (0, Troll)

Zephiria (941257) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875576)

I love it.. Why is this guy being moderated as flamebait?
He's just pointing out his experiences with the product in question.
Stupid MS haters and apple fanboys :/

Re:Apple is spreading FUD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17875696)

Why is this guy being moderated as flamebait?
He's just pointing out his experiences with the product in question.
While the post is more moderate, the title is Flamebait and FUD. Apple says that they have a reported (and apparently reproducible) problem with iPods on Vista. They can't guarantee that the iPod will be able to disconnect cleanly. This is not FUD. The fact that this person has not accidentally reproduced the problem (yet), does not make it impossible to reproduce. The plural of anecdote is not data.

FUD is Fear Uncertainty and Doubt. It's what happens when you say things like, Apple could have specially engineered the iPod/iTunes such that they wouldn't work with Vista. Maybe this will happen every week now. Note that there are no absolute statements there. All it is saying is that things could or might happen. That's FUD.

If the poster didn't want to get marked flamebait, then the subject should have been "I haven't had any problems."

Re:Apple is spreading FUD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17875702)

It's flamebait because there's no way that one users experience that iTunes+Vista is ok, can confirm that iTunes+Vista will work for everyone.

Obviously Apple has found one or more cases where that is not the case. As someone else in this thread pointed out, even if 1% of users are affected, that's still a lot of people.

Furthermore, he directly makes an accusation of FUD, and then at the end says 'YMMV'. So yea, the title is flamebait to get people to reply to his post.

Re:Apple is spreading FUD (1)

QBasicer (781745) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875618)

I have had problems with iTunes on Vista. Since I'm dual booting Vista and XP, I don't want my iPod to erase itself and "bond" with Vista. In order to play my music on Vista, I had to manually go in and copy my music over. When I installed iTunes, disk access stopped working, however, when I went to enable it in iTunes, it would freeze up for 30 seconds, and then throw an error at me. Uninstalling iTunes worked.

Strange ... (1, Insightful)

ta ma de (851887) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875154)

The timing of the announcement seems a little convenient.

Re:Strange ... (1)

jlarocco (851450) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875452)

The timing of the announcement seems a little convenient.

How do you mean?

Re:Strange ... (1)

ta ma de (851887) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875586)

Vista is released, and though the beta has been available for some time now, Apple says, "hey don't upgrade - it will break iTunes." I would be surprised if the issue wasn't known to Apple for months now. However, the tech doc was conveniently provided just after Vista's launch. I'm not saying that it was evil -- just a well conceived competitive practice.

Re:Strange ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17875678)

It should have been provided just before, then, don't you think?

I dunno.. (5, Funny)

benc (573) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875156)

Look, I think Microsoft's products emanate directly from Satan's butthole, just like the rest of you. I also secretly hump the boxes from which my purchased Apple products emerge. However, doesn't it seem like Apple probably had more than enough time to get this working on the beta versions, assuming this isn't some new, last-second bug?

That said, the Zune doesn't even work on Vista yet, as another commenter already pointed out.... Still, I'm inclined to blame Apple on this one.

Re:I dunno.. (1)

lmnfrs (829146) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875374)

In this case a 'new' or 'last-second' bug would translate to one that's been around for several months since that's how long the final build of Vista has been available. Taking that into consideration, Apple somehow missed an obvious bug for months, or they are lying through their noses to spread FUD, or it occurs a small percentage of the time or only in uncommon circumstances.
Probably it's the last one.. and (virtually) nobody has anything to worry about. They're just covering themselves to prevent a possible support flood that would hurt them and, in turn, their customers.
Oh and for the record, I hate Apple and think the parent poster is a delusional box abuser. I just happen to think this is the most likely explanation.

Re:I dunno.. (1)

Farmer Tim (530755) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875514)

Look, I think Microsoft's products emanate directly from Satan's butthole

They do not! You're seriously over-rating Satan's gastric emissions.

Re:I dunno.. (1)

toleraen (831634) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875524)

the Zune doesn't even work on Vista yet

Are you sure? [zune.net]

Perhaps they are trying to keep from being swarmed (1)

Lotek (29809) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875168)

I'm thinking that this is what it looks like: a support bulletin designed to keep them from being overwhelmed by people who fire up their iPods and can't get things to work just right, once they have installed Vista.

It's a new OS, with lots of restrictions that the previous version did not have, so naturally some things probably don't work as well as they should. Also, cranking out new versions for Vista may not have been the biggest priority around Apple, aside from the guys who knew that things were going to get busy there in apple support land.

unlikely microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17875174)

If you think about it, how can microsoft release a product without testing its compatibility with one of the most common consumer electronic on the market today, even if it's apple's. Something fishy going on with apple methinks.

DOS isn't done until Lotus doesn't run? (-1, Troll)

Xenographic (557057) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875212)

Considering it worked well enough in XP, I'm wondering exactly what they managed to screw up with USB handling...

My opinion, unencumbered by fact, gives it a 99% chance of being Microsoft's fault and a 30/70 on whether it's a bug or an intentional screwup to help their turd, Zune (brown IS the most popular color...). Yeah, that probably doesn't seem very fair, but after all the dirty bastard tricks Microsoft has pulled in the past [slashdot.org] , I honestly don't think that little things like legality matter to them at all.

To be honest, I'm kind of surprised that no one from Microsoft has ever ended up in prison. Well, not *that* surprised, given the way the law works for international corporations, but...

Re:DOS isn't done until Lotus doesn't run? (2, Interesting)

omicronish (750174) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875332)

Considering it worked well enough in XP, I'm wondering exactly what they managed to screw up with USB handling...

I doubt it's USB handling; it's likely UAC and how everyone is a restricted user by default (even Administrators until they elevate). I got into this weird situation in XP where I was able to play and purchase music in iTunes under a restricted account until I mistakenly ran it under an administrator account one day. I was never able to purchase music again without logging on as administrator (it would fail to download the song).

Furthermore, I can't imagine them intentionally crippling iTunes. Apple has ~70-80% of the market of music devices. It would be suicide for Vista to intentionally block the software of the most popular music device out there. Regular users would blame Vista regardless of the underlying technical reasons.

Re:DOS isn't done until Lotus doesn't run? (1)

Xenographic (557057) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875410)

> It would be suicide for Vista to intentionally block the software of the most popular music device out there. Regular users would blame Vista regardless of the underlying technical reasons.

I doubt that such things would stop Microsoft, honestly. I'm sure they'd tell people "it's just a bug, it'll be patched in a few months" followed by something trying to sell them a Zune.

Re:DOS isn't done until Lotus doesn't run? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17875594)


I remember hearing that the Zune software won't run on Vista either, which significantly reduces the chance that this is malicious. More than likely it's just MS not releasing a product that's ready for public consumption.

Studios should object to Apple DRM (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17875236)

Studios should object to Apple's DRM and rewrite their contracts to make APple open FAirplay so that other video players can play their movies. Now, the studios are helping iTunes perpetuate its monopoly .. which in the long term is bad for the studios because iTunes can keep raising their profit margins and the studios will have nowhere else to viably sell their movies.

Re:Studios should object to Apple DRM (4, Insightful)

Frequency Domain (601421) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875420)

Studios should object to Apple's DRM and rewrite their contracts to make APple open FAirplay so that other video players can play their movies.
You've got it bass ackwards. If you had been paying attention you would remember that Apple couldn't launch iTunes until it had satisfied the studios by adding some form of DRM. Apple still managed to sneak in the work-around that you could burn your own DRM-free CD's. Has any other DRM provider done that?

Re:Studios should object to Apple DRM (2, Informative)

omicronish (750174) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875466)

Apple still managed to sneak in the work-around that you could burn your own DRM-free CD's. Has any other DRM provider done that?

You can burn CDs of DRMed music with the Zune software.

Re:Studios should object to Apple DRM (1)

Frequency Domain (601421) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875502)

Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. I still maintain that Apple, to their credit, did it from the get-go at a time when the recording companies didn't want to sign a contract unless there was DRM.

Re:Studios should object to Apple DRM (1)

Marcos Eliziario (969923) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875506)

Don't be stupid. Studios WANT apple to distribute things with DRM, not the other way around. They don't want open standards, several vendors and shit like that. For apple it's basically the same thing, people don't buy iPods because only iPods play content bought on iTunes, people buy on iTunes because they have iPods. if iTunes sold content that could be played on other players, users of those other players would buy on iTunes, but then, apple would not get content so easily from the studios, because it would not look DRM-safe enough for them. If you want content that works with other devices, go buy it anywhere else but in iTunes. If enough people start buying content at other places, the studios will have a compelling reason to start working with those alternative channels, that is, if they think that those other places are safe enough.

Corrupting a little music player (4, Insightful)

Ace905 (163071) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875256)

How can you even ask who's fault it is? Man, if the story-authors on slashdot spent like 10% less time blindly bashing Microsoft, the 80% of the time they spend accurately bashing Microsoft would actually be taken seriously. To say, "Who's fault do you think it is" doesn't imply Apple or Microsoft is at fault - but it opens up a debate that can't possibly be intelligently executed.

There's no evidence of anything ; we don't even know what happened.

You might as well sprinkle M&M's all over a busy freeway beside a Richard Simmons retreat. People are going to rush into this one and end up looking pretty stupid.

---
Don't even get me started on looking stupid [douginadress.com] .

Re:Corrupting a little music player (1)

Goffee71 (628501) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875278)

Don't get it, my iPod has been in and out of my Vista RTM for months with no problem, haven't seen any forum posts about Vista killing iPods, so this rates as Top-FUD (The Movie)

Re:Corrupting a little music player (1)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875472)

You might as well sprinkle M&M's all over a busy freeway beside a Richard Simmons retreat.

That's really very funny but I could well live without the image it evoked.

Oh, the humanity ...

Surprised? (1)

necro81 (917438) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875270)

Vista is, from all I've heard, a sizeable change for software developers. Its relationship and interactions to programs and hardware is very different. Problems are to be expected when you have such a tightly integrated hardware/software product like the iPod and iTunes. While Windows has doggedly tried to ensure that Vista is backward compatible with previous releases (and the software for those releases), it is hardly surprising that something like this is happening. It's happened with other Windows releases, it happened when Apple moved to OS X and universal binaries. Everyone is having difficulty getting things working on Vista, customers and developers alike, and will for months. I don't really think it's a matter of blame. It's one of the burdens of being an early adopter.

Yes, surprised (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17875580)

The iPod is of the USB mass storage device class [wikipedia.org] and as such should have no problem, unless Vista is broken for *all* USB mass storage devices.

Bill Gates response (2, Funny)

edwardpickman (965122) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875272)

"Oopsy, my bad. I just don't know how that could have happened since our Zune player works perfectly. I'm sure we can get the issue resolved by service pack 4."

DRM of course! (1)

UED++ (1043486) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875280)

Why don't you listen? Don't Remove Media! btw: Surely this deserves the haha tag?

I use iTunes on Vista (2, Informative)

Kraegar (565221) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875284)

I've been running Vista (Business) for well over a month now, and use iTunes daily with my 4gb ipod nano. I haven't noticed any issues. Music purchased from ITMS plays fine, and I haven't (yet) corrupted my nano. So this news of it not working is a bit of a surprise to me.

This shouldn't be happening (1)

helmutvs (912204) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875314)

The betas then release candidates of Vista have been available for almost a year for MSDN members and over a half-year for non-members. Apple should have had plenty of time to make sure that iTunes worked properly on Microsoft's new system. It is most likely changes aren't 100% complete, hence why Vista users should wait until the next iTunes update becomes available.

Smells very fishy in Redmond (1)

DreamerFi (78710) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875330)

Given how long Vista pre-releases have been available, this issue either didn't occur in those versions, or was fixed in the most recent iTunes update. The windows market is too important for Apple to not fix this. Therefore this is probably something that only appeared in the release version, and not in earlier versions. And given the release date for Zune, I'd strongly suspect Microsoft, but with one anti-trust lawsuit behind them, they're probably too smart to leave a trail this time around.

Either that, or they're just incompetent nincompoops...

Release version has been around for months (3, Interesting)

D3m0n0fTh3Fall (1022795) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875366)

The release version has been all over the net for months, do you honestly think apple hadn't been testing with it?

KtkPod (1)

flyingfsck (986395) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875346)

Well, if your Pod goes belly up, you can use Gtkpod to fix it. Thank Dog for Linux...

Both wrong... It's the USERS fault or it's the... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17875354)

For many users iTunes/iPod works fine. Therefore it must be something on the users side.

The user is too stupid to correctly understand how to use iTunes/iPod correctly under Vista's new security system or
The user has a piece of their party hardware that doesn't work correctly under Vista or
The Master Control Program and Tro... er iTunes are battling it out.

END OF LINE

Well DUH! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17875368)

Who here is surprised? I mean we have:

early adopter/bleeding edge issues

competitive products- music players, jukebox software, and media architectures

two arrogant vendors in a love/hate relationship

both systems full of DRM

I'd say it's both companies fault- Microsoft and Apple are developer partners, have NDA access to developmental software, and actually work pretty closely together. Fortunately, Apple is being responsible by supporting its Windows iPod users and this will all be straightened out in short order.

Disclaimer: I've worked for both Apple and Microsoft in the past

Of course it is Apple's fault. (3, Interesting)

DinZy (513280) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875386)

Vista has been in its finished form for months. There is no excuse for Apple not having iTunes ready. They are clearly just being coy here so they can maybe sell a few systems or something. On a side note. I have been using XP x64 since the start of last year. Apple released a version of quicktime that was broken on that system and since they bundled it with iTunes it actually broke that as well and they removed any link to the older working version. I updated to that and lost the ability to use my iPod and any software that used quicktime. It was yet another case of Apple failing to test their products thoroughly.

History repeating itself (4, Interesting)

SierraPete (834755) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875388)

Without accusing the crowd of being anything less than an ethical [insert gagging sounds here], this might be history repeating itself for competitive gain. With the Windows 95 upgrade came the "feature" that included the disabling of AOL software. Didn't M$ introduce M$N Network with Windows 95? So didn't M$ introduce the Zune this past Christmas season? Maybe I'm getting cynical in my old age, but given the track history of M$ (to include the now infamous Halloween documents which were recently acknowledged as authentic in court), a sabotaging of the iPod is not outside the realm of possible.

Re:History repeating itself (1)

BeerCat (685972) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875490)

Without accusing the crowd of being anything less than an ethical [insert gagging sounds here], this might be history repeating itself for competitive gain. With the Windows 95 upgrade came the "feature" that included the disabling of AOL software.


And, further back, the windows 3.1 upgrade that broke DR-DOS

Safari and hotmail (5, Interesting)

Scrameustache (459504) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875394)

When Safari came out, I downloaded version 1.0 the very first day, and used it to go to hotmail, check out my messages, download attachement, everything worked fine.

Three days later, I could no longer download attachments... My version of Safari hadn't changed, but somehow, after three days, it didn't work as well as it did. Hmmm...

In a less anecdotal way, you might remember Microsoft "borking" Opera [opera.com] , or the infamous Microsoft hack that screwed with Netscape back in the 90s.
If we're lucky, "leaked" memos will show up in a few years detailing how Microsoft purposefully decided to screw with their competition for their new zune.

Re:Safari and hotmail (2, Funny)

Tragek (772040) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875538)

" the infamous Microsoft hack that screwed with Netscape back in the 90s"

You mean IE?

Beta doesn't equal Golden Master (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17875406)

Vista and iTunes were working together fine during the open beta but that doesn't mean Microsoft didn't make last minute changes that broke iTunes. Further, the fact that some people are using iTunes now without issue doesn't mean Apple is spreading FUD. An operating system is a complex animal, obviously there are differences between the various flavors of Vista so that iTunes might be fine on a Professional version but not work with a Home version. And while many people are using iTunes on Vista today doesn't mean some nasty bug (oops, I mean feature) won't rear up and bite their butt tomorrow.

pay attention! (5, Funny)

Hallowed (229057) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875418)

What, didn't you notice that Vista said "Permanently Remove Hardware" instead of "Safely Remove Hardware"? It's not a bug, it's a feature!

I've got to lean towards this being Apple's fault. (1)

d_jedi (773213) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875442)

Whenever there are upgrades to OSes there are going to be some incompatibilities. Knowing what I know of MS's internal practices, it's likely Apple knew of this problem quite a while ago (either through their own testing or MS's) and knew how to fix it. They just decided to sit on it for marketing reasons (OMFG!! VISTA breakz iPODzz!)

I find it hard to believe that such an issue was completely unknown before the release of Vista..

Re:I've got to lean towards this being Apple's fau (1)

cryocide (947909) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875624)

I have to agree with you here. Vista had been in Beta since mid-2005. If iTunes and its related services still have problems like these, why haven't they already been addressed?

Are we going to blame Microsoft for Creative Labs' lack of decent drivers, too?

Who needs iTunes anyway... (1)

seadd (530971) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875458)

...since there are several alternative applications for transferring music to your iPod.
There's a plugin for Winamp, there's EphPOD and at least two more applications. Plus, they are not 35 megs in download size and won't require you to install Quicktime.

Winamp USB (4, Interesting)

haijak (573586) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875476)

If I have Winamp running and put in a USB CF reader with photos on it, I get a prompt about Winamp managing this possible media player. Of course I decline and copy off my photos, then remove the card. As soon as I remove the card, Winamp crashes.

So while I'm sure using iTunes will probably be fine, The USB media device management has some issues that ether Microsoft or the software makers need to handle. I would bet that is what Apple is talking about.

Never has happened to me... (1)

SilentOneNCW (943611) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875520)

I've been using Vista & iPod together on my laptop for months now and have never had anything untoward happen -- has anyone here actually experienced this?

Apple's fault (0, Troll)

gsn (989808) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875534)

Well [com.com]
it [janicek.com]
might [digitaltrends.com]
be [msdn.com]
because [ionmac.com]
iTunes [boerland.com]
sucks [unsoughtinput.com]

I tried it so I could listen to some of the iTunes shares my housemates have but it kept crashing periodically and in the end I still prefer winamp's look and feel.

Re:Apple's fault (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#17875626)

Or it might be because WINDOWS sucks...

iTunes works perfectly on all of my Macs. Anecdotally, in my time as a Mac Genius, we saw MANY more problems with Windows iPod users than Mac iPod users. Maybe it was due to the difference in installed base, but the skew was huge and almost every Windows system we saw was borked much worse than the typical Mac that came in for service.

Just sayin...

If only... (1, Troll)

dioscaido (541037) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875540)

... Microsoft gave some sort of preview of the OS for 3rd parties to test and update their applications. Maybe then Apple could have done something about it. I blame Microsoft.

Re:If only... (1)

GodInHell (258915) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875646)

... Microsoft gave some sort of preview of the OS for 3rd parties to test and update their applications. Maybe then Apple could have done something about it. I blame Microsoft.
You mean like the many Beta versions they made available? (pst, your preconcieved notion is showing)

-GiH

Re:If only... (5, Interesting)

Quixotic Raindrop (443129) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875652)

It's funny you mention that ... because Microsoft has, in the past, done exactly this sort of thing before, and if you read Groklaw, you'll note that this very issue is a major factor in a lawsuit currently being litigated. Microsoft is well-known for providing different builds of Windows to different developers, and for changing system calls, hooks, APIs, and other such things at the last minute and only telling certain third-party developers, if any.

I don't doubt that Apple might have some dirty hands here, if only because they seek to embarrass Microsoft at any opportunity, and may have deliberately withheld some updates specifically to cause the most possible bad publicity about Vista, but more likely than not Apple was given one set of APIs WRT the safe removal of iPods, only to have Microsoft change them without warning.

I wish iTUnes on windows did not look so fugly (0, Offtopic)

modmans2ndcoming (929661) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875584)

iTunes on OS X rocks.... on windows, it looks nasty!!!

keep teh organizational ideas and the general UI, but dump the OS X look and feel and go with the windows look and feel!!!

Apple STILL doesn't have an update? (1)

Shippy (123643) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875598)

I find that, honestly, the Windows version of iTunes is a buggy piece of crap. How long have betas of Vista been available? Did they really have to wait until after Vista has been released to post something about it? Look at a lot of other software (Nero, nVidia drivers, etc). They had Vista versions of their software ready-to-go before it even hit the shelves.

Microsoft must have forgotten to test iPod w/Vista (1)

bremstrong (523910) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875602)

Oops, how could that have happened! What an incredible oversight! Heads will roll! Or get bonuses.

Luckily for Apple, there are probably relatively few customers who've upgraded to Vista.

Apple is at some fault (1)

wootest (694923) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875670)

Vista has been coming forever, the shipping version already shipped for some before the turn of the year. Apple is entirely to blame for not pre-emptively putting out 7.0.3 to fix these things, because boy have they had the time to do so. They *have* put out a fix by now for part of the problems, but it's not an iTunes update, and Vista may have botched these things, but it's not like they haven't had time or opportunity to fix them.

I do like Apple and I do like iTunes, but this is the same arrogant flank of the company that told you they were mad at Microsoft because Windows wasn't secure enough when they accidently shipped a batch of iPods with a Windows virus on the hard drive.

JMB must be an Apple user... (1)

Afecks (899057) | more than 7 years ago | (#17875708)

OS X has several critical flaws published... damn you bug reporters for making the bugs public!

iPod may be corrupted when using iTunes... damn you Vista for doing whatever you did!

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to go with Apple as the guilty party here. They should have either tested their software properly on Vista or added some simple checks to prevent the application from being used until it's updated.

iTunes is very suspect here because the Windows version is a bloated piece of shit. There are only 2 applications that I simply dread installing. So much that I've spent money to avoid using them. That's iTunes and RealPlayer. They are the most invasive, unstable, bloated pieces of shit outside of Microsoft's own handy work, IE and WMP.

Once, I watched my friend plug in his iPod shuffle on a brand new installation of iTunes without turning off the autosync crap. Genius of end-user experience Apple decided that iTunes's default behavior would be to erase all his files so that it would be synced with his new blank library. He was pissed and has been using Anapod Explorer ever since.

Now please feel free to mod me down and hit me with a barrage of "but..but..but Windows!".
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?
or Connect with...

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>